Robert99 37 #57926 September 6, 2022 1 hour ago, Slim King said: Name 20 people that actually saw the plane over Portland that aren't working for the FBI ... I'll wait........ Where is the hair ... Where are the butts, where are the black boxes and Radar data ... They have been destroyed or messed up for 50 years by the FBI.... Red herring specialists ... Masters of misinformation ... And you are their willing victim or working with them. No one saw the airliner over Portland since it was above an overcast and additional cloud layers. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FLYJACK 654 #57927 September 6, 2022 1 hour ago, georger said: Maybe you can find your answers at some other forum ? Yes, many more people on the reddit Cooper thread, Nobody here will ever entertain the garbage Reca narrative... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ParrotheadVol 70 #57928 September 6, 2022 7 minutes ago, Slim King said: They say right in the interview that they want all the info to come out from the FBI ... That's why they have an excuse not to talk. But it's apparent that you are NOT here to solve a case but you are here to piss in the punch. Larry Carr is the worst at muddying everything up. That's his job it seems. Larry Carr has been known to hang out at the Cooper Mystery Group on Facebook since his retirement from the FBI. I'm sure he would be willing to respond to any comments or questions you may have for him. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FLYJACK 654 #57929 September 6, 2022 (edited) 28 minutes ago, Slim King said: They say right in the interview that they want all the info to come out from the FBI ... That's why they have an excuse not to talk. But it's apparent that you are NOT here to solve a case but you are here to piss in the punch. Larry Carr is the worst at muddying everything up. That's his job it seems. So, there is no lie.. just normal procedures to control the information in an investigation. You still have nothing. You are doing exactly what you accuse others of.. wasting our time and muddying the forum with Reca nonsense. Go to the Facebook site and waste their time, they have thousands of members, there are really only a handful here.. where you have zero impact. Edited September 6, 2022 by FLYJACK Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FLYJACK 654 #57930 September 7, 2022 14 minutes ago, Slim King said: You joined here right before Reca passed away. You were trying to get ahead of the curve but it's too late. The FBI has never looked so guilty. No one trusts them anymore.Hindsight is 20/20 and you fell right into the trap..... You have nothing... Reca is a joke... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FLYJACK 654 #57931 September 7, 2022 727 rate of climb gauge.. needle oscillates above and below 0... an extreme oscillation is shown by the needle and felt by a bump... a "bump" felt is an oscillation on the needle...the bump was an extreme oscillation. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FLYJACK 654 #57932 September 7, 2022 (edited) Tracked down the Boeing 727 McCoy hijacked,, it went to Everett Community College Edited September 7, 2022 by FLYJACK Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JAGdb 68 #57933 September 7, 2022 What would be an example of FAA tower rules and requirements ? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FLYJACK 654 #57934 September 7, 2022 6 minutes ago, JAGdb said: What would be an example of FAA tower rules and requirements ? Filing a flight plan in the air... Cooper knew that. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Robert99 37 #57935 September 7, 2022 (edited) 5 hours ago, FLYJACK said: 727 rate of climb gauge.. needle oscillates above and below 0... an extreme oscillation is shown by the needle and felt by a bump... a "bump" felt is an oscillation on the needle...the bump was an extreme oscillation. This is a standard rate of climb instrument on the pilot's panel. It is unlikely that this type of instrument would be associated with the cabin pressurization system since it is linked to pressure ports on the exterior of the aircraft. The above instrument indicates a 50 feet per minute rate of climb. But since it is not moving, the needle simply does not go to zero when no changes are taking place. The cabin pressurization probably had an instrument where the rate of change of the cabin pressure could be specified. Edited September 7, 2022 by Robert99 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Robert99 37 #57936 September 7, 2022 4 hours ago, JAGdb said: What would be an example of FAA tower rules and requirements ? The communications lingo and procedures plus the type of information that would be exchanged between the tower and the airliner. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FLYJACK 654 #57937 September 7, 2022 (edited) 9 hours ago, Robert99 said: This is a standard rate of climb instrument on the pilot's panel. It is unlikely that this type of instrument would be associated with the cabin pressurization system since it is linked to pressure ports on the exterior of the aircraft. The above instrument indicates a 50 feet per minute rate of climb. But since it is not moving, the needle simply does not go to zero when no changes are taking place. The cabin pressurization probably had an instrument where the rate of change of the cabin pressure could be specified. Nope,, Anderson mentions this gauge.. "A: It was the "rate of descent" gauge that detected the so-called "pressure bump." Two guages are used to detect the disruptions of airflow. (1) the Differential Pressure/Cabin Altitude (which serves as a dual function guage); and (2) rate of climb, or, rate of descent guage." The image I posted is from a 727,, it detects the pressure differential between the outside and inside the cabin. This allows the crew to adjust the internal cabin pressure to make the passengers more comfortable during altitude changes.. Now, normally the cabin is pressurized and the needle moves slowly up or down above or below the zero mark. Norjak was unique as the jet was unpressurized with the rear door open and a hijacker on the stairs.. During the oscillations the altitude was constant at about 10,000 ft. and the external pressure was steady, however, the hijacker on the stairs caused the cabin pressure to fluctuate and that would be reflected in the needle on that gauge oscillating up and down around the zero mark. This wasn't normal and caught the crew's attention. So, the needle is oscillating showing the differential between the steady outside pressure and fluctuating cabin pressure due to Cooper on the stairs,, the bump was caused by the stairs retracting creating an extreme pressure fluctuation resulting in both an extreme needle oscillation and being felt by the crew. There is no other explanation than Cooper leaving the stairs.. The bump was also an oscillation,, this occurred minutes before the 8:15 call to Soderlind. The start of the rapid visual oscillations and bump oscillation occurred within seconds not minutes.. not 5 or 10 minutes apart, that is impossible. The FBI/Soderlind LZ is 8:09-8:15 with the sweet spot at 8:12 and probability diminishing at the extremes.. Edited September 7, 2022 by FLYJACK Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FLYJACK 654 #57938 September 7, 2022 This is Jack,, https://thecoopervortex.podbean.com/e/db-cooper-s-criminal-profile-robert-fuller/ His "suspect" isn't new,, it is Gossett Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FLYJACK 654 #57939 September 7, 2022 match cover.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JAGdb 68 #57940 September 7, 2022 43 minutes ago, FLYJACK said: match cover.. Yeah, I mean.... "Jack's" game is to profile...fine, but don't profile in a vacuum. IMO, profiling is somewhat educated guess work, and I don't mean that in disrespectful way nor to imply that it has no place or is not helpful. Clearly profiling has been a tool for law enforcement for a long time. It's just that it can be hit or miss. When data and information is on the low side, it is best to be more general or high level when profiling. The more specific you go, the more you run the risk of crossing over the fine line to guessing and mind reading. While I don't want to profile him too much, he seems to be pretty strong minded. I don't even think my initial comment could be considered a rebuke to his post or overall profile. It was simply a "hey, it could also be for a more practical reason that he did that". But seems to have taken it like that.....all good. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Robert99 37 #57941 September 7, 2022 2 hours ago, FLYJACK said: Nope,, Anderson mentions this gauge.. "A: It was the "rate of descent" gauge that detected the so-called "pressure bump." Two guages are used to detect the disruptions of airflow. (1) the Differential Pressure/Cabin Altitude (which serves as a dual function guage); and (2) rate of climb, or, rate of descent guage." The image I posted is from a 727,, it detects the pressure differential between the outside and inside the cabin. This allows the crew to adjust the internal cabin pressure to make the passengers more comfortable during altitude changes.. Now, normally the cabin is pressurized and the needle moves slowly up or down above or below the zero mark. Norjak was unique as the jet was unpressurized with the rear door open and a hijacker on the stairs.. During the oscillations the altitude was constant at about 10,000 ft. and the external pressure was steady, however, the hijacker on the stairs caused the cabin pressure to fluctuate and that would be reflected in the needle on that gauge oscillating up and down around the zero mark. This wasn't normal and caught the crew's attention. So, the needle is oscillating showing the differential between the steady outside pressure and fluctuating cabin pressure due to Cooper on the stairs,, the bump was caused by the stairs retracting creating an extreme pressure fluctuation resulting in both an extreme needle oscillation and being felt by the crew. There is no other explanation than Cooper leaving the stairs.. The bump was also an oscillation,, this occurred minutes before the 8:15 call to Soderlind. The start of the rapid visual oscillations and bump oscillation occurred within seconds not minutes.. not 5 or 10 minutes apart, that is impossible. The FBI/Soderlind LZ is 8:09-8:15 with the sweet spot at 8:12 and probability diminishing at the extremes.. FlyJack, the instrument you posted a picture of is a standard rate of climb instrument which is part of the normal pilot's panel on practically every aircraft flying in 1971 and today. It was ported to sensors located on the outside of the aircraft hull. It did not have anything to do with the pressure inside the cabin. The cabin pressurization system in the 727 apparently had an instrument that measured the pressure inside the cabin and indicated the "cabin altitude". Normally, the cabin altitude on an airliner never exceeds the equivalent of about 8000 feet pressure altitude. But the 727 system apparently had the capability to determine the rate of change of the cabin pressure for the benefit of the passenger's comfort. For instance, after takeoff the cabin pressure would probably be set to lag the outside pressure. That is, the airliner would be higher than 8000 feet altitude when the cabin pressure finally made it down to 8000 feet. On descending, the cabin pressure would be set to lead the outside pressure so that both would be the same when the airliner landed and the cabin doors were opened. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FLYJACK 654 #57942 September 7, 2022 24 minutes ago, JAGdb said: Yeah, I mean.... "Jack's" game is to profile...fine, but don't profile in a vacuum. IMO, profiling is somewhat educated guess work, and I don't mean that in disrespectful way nor to imply that it has no place or is not helpful. Clearly profiling has been a tool for law enforcement for a long time. It's just that it can be hit or miss. When data and information is on the low side, it is best to be more general or high level when profiling. The more specific you go, the more you run the risk of crossing over the fine line to guessing and mind reading. While I don't want to profile him too much, he seems to be pretty strong minded. I don't even think my initial comment could be considered a rebuke to his post or overall profile. It was simply a "hey, it could also be for a more practical reason that he did that". But seems to have taken it like that.....all good. yes,, but Gossett is not a new suspect and many of Jack's claims/guesses are way out there.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FLYJACK 654 #57943 September 7, 2022 24 minutes ago, Robert99 said: FlyJack, the instrument you posted a picture of is a standard rate of climb instrument which is part of the normal pilot's panel on practically every aircraft flying in 1971 and today. It was ported to sensors located on the outside of the aircraft hull. It did not have anything to do with the pressure inside the cabin. The cabin pressurization system in the 727 apparently had an instrument that measured the pressure inside the cabin and indicated the "cabin altitude". Normally, the cabin altitude on an airliner never exceeds the equivalent of about 8000 feet pressure altitude. But the 727 system apparently had the capability to determine the rate of change of the cabin pressure for the benefit of the passenger's comfort. For instance, after takeoff the cabin pressure would probably be set to lag the outside pressure. That is, the airliner would be higher than 8000 feet altitude when the cabin pressure finally made it down to 8000 feet. On descending, the cabin pressure would be set to lead the outside pressure so that both would be the same when the airliner landed and the cabin doors were opened. Yes, it did,, Anderson said so.. The rate of climb gauge is a relative indicator,, Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Robert99 37 #57944 September 7, 2022 2 hours ago, FLYJACK said: Yes, it did,, Anderson said so.. The rate of climb gauge is a relative indicator,, I don't know what Anderson told you, but the rate of climb instrument on the pilot's panel doesn't have anything to do with the pressure indications in an aircraft with a pressurized hull. The instruments associated with the pressurization system show cabin pressure and the rate of change in the cabin pressure. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FLYJACK 654 #57945 September 7, 2022 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Robert99 said: I don't know what Anderson told you, but the rate of climb instrument on the pilot's panel doesn't have anything to do with the pressure indications in an aircraft with a pressurized hull. The instruments associated with the pressurization system show cabin pressure and the rate of change in the cabin pressure. The rate of climb (descent) gauge is not absolute it is relative. It measures a differential. If you disagree take it up with Anderson. Q2: Is it correct that the intent of the report from the crew was that the cabin climb rate guage indication had oscillated? A (Anderson): "It was the "rate of descent" gauge that detected the so-called "pressure bump." Two guages are used to detect the disruptions of airflow. (1) the Differential Pressure/Cabin Altitude (which serves as a dual function guage); and (2) rate of climb, or, rate of descent guage." Edited September 7, 2022 by FLYJACK Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Robert99 37 #57946 September 7, 2022 26 minutes ago, FLYJACK said: The rate of climb (descent) gauge is not absolute it is relative. It measures a differential. If you disagree take it up with Anderson. Q2: Is it correct that the intent of the report from the crew was that the cabin climb rate guage indication had oscillated? A (Anderson): "It was the "rate of descent" gauge that detected the so-called "pressure bump." Two guages are used to detect the disruptions of airflow. (1) the Differential Pressure/Cabin Altitude (which serves as a dual function guage); and (2) rate of climb, or, rate of descent guage." It is obvious that Anderson was referring to an instrument on the cabin pressurization panel and not to the rate of climb instrument on the pilot's panel. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FLYJACK 654 #57947 September 7, 2022 7 minutes ago, Robert99 said: It is obvious that Anderson was referring to an instrument on the cabin pressurization panel and not to the rate of climb instrument on the pilot's panel. The rate of climb (descent) gauge I posted and the one I have been referring to is on the engineers panel on the 727.. I have it right.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FLYJACK 654 #57948 September 7, 2022 https://www.goodreads.com/author_blog_posts/22892452-d-b-cooper-and-flight-305-the-b-stewardess These notes are in the Gray files and well known.. Flo's initial description in the notes was early after she had initial contact with the hijacker and he was seated... Later, Flo had more direct contact with the hijacker before she left the plane.. She revised her description.. to 6 ft mid 40's.. Because she had a subsequent interaction with the hijacker there is no indication the first description is more accurate. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Robert99 37 #57949 September 7, 2022 31 minutes ago, FLYJACK said: The rate of climb (descent) gauge I posted and the one I have been referring to is on the engineers panel on the 727.. I have it right.. The one you pictured is on the pilot's panel. The engineer's panel instrument can probably be set at a certain pressure change rate. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FLYJACK 654 #57950 September 7, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, Robert99 said: The one you pictured is on the pilot's panel. The engineer's panel instrument can probably be set at a certain pressure change rate. Wrong, it is identical to the one on the engineers panel. There is a separate settings panel. I checked the pilots panel and it is not there.. This is the Boeing 727 engineers panel.. Edited September 7, 2022 by FLYJACK Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
