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DB Cooper

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53 minutes ago, RobertMBlevins said:

The Cooper case is complicated? There are a lot of FBI files (heavily redacted) about the case? 

LOL...tell me something I DON'T know. 

Why don't you just admit that you are (like some others in Cooperland) plain pissed off I had the absolute nerve to release all our findings on Christiansen to the public and to the FBI? 

The Cooper case goes beyond just the FBI files.

I can't speak for everybody but I don't care at all about you releasing your findings.

 

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2 hours ago, RobertMBlevins said:

Well, okay. 

You know I was just a sci fi writer with a small publishing business, a fledgling sci fi magazine, and cleaned homes when Cooper and KC came into my life. I wish I could blame that on someone else, but it was I who approached Skipp Porteous first. 

And your mind was made up that KC was Cooper before you ever started your "investigation". 

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This in the money shot 302... 

Rataczak says Cooper jumped 5 to 10 minutes after last contact which occurred at 8:05. (8:10-8:15)

This is important, he telephones Soderlind after the "oscillation" and stated it could have been the hijacker's departure between the 8:05 last contact plus 5-10 minutes and the call to Soderlind which WOULD HAVE BEEN RECORDED

Rataczak further states that they had not yet reached Portland but were in the suburbs.. here he is referring to the time of the call to Soderlind, NOT the time of the oscillation. He was stating a range with a start and end point NOT the exact point of the oscillation.

This is consistent with Ratczak's other statements including the belief Cooper jumped much further North.

They must of had the time of the call to Soderlind and incorporated that into the LZ. 

Clearly, that call to Soderlind before Portland puts the bump/oscillation well before the Columbia River. (unless you change the argument to claim the bump/oscillation wasn't Cooper jumping)

sodrat.jpg.792b24142ec4f7d01fb8af6f91110ea4.jpg

 

302, Soderlind used his notes and records to create the LZ. He must have had the time of the call he received from Ratazcak.

sodmap.jpeg.b2af09a5d0b57747c89095c1a2c380f0.jpeg

 

Clearly, if the bump/oscillation was Cooper jumping, there is no way he jumped beyond Battleground and near or into the Columbia River.

 

The only way that is even possible is if the bump/oscillation was not Cooper jumping and that is a very heavy lift not supported by any evidence.

 

CKECK MATE

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9 hours ago, RobertMBlevins said:

Where do you get your secret information from? No saying you are psychic, either. 

In the comments at the bottom, you said you believed Kenny was the guy when you reached out to Skip P with the book idea. Your mind was made up before you ever started your "investigation". The confirmation bias was there from the beginning.

"Oh, I believe Sherlock Investigations hit it on the head with this one".

https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=14497019&postID=2065133859021445047&bpli=1

Edited by ParrotheadVol

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Matching a suspect to the Cooper evidence/profile is the only objective measure. 

Blevins has skipped that in favour of a wildly speculative biased and self serving narrative.

When you objectively compare KC to the Cooper profile, he does not match.

Blevins will not do this because it exposes KC as a non-suspect.

Selling a few books or downloads just doesn't change the facts.

KC wasn't Cooper. That is not an opinion, that is an objective comparison to the facts.

 

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Excerpt from recent article..

 https://www.smokejumpers.com/index.php/smokejumpermagazine/getitem/articles_id=443

by Johnny Kirkley, his account of jumps/drops from a 727 in was also written about many years ago but never mentioned the flaps 15, landing gear down and speed, though it was a static jump. Frankly, it sounds like revisionism perhaps after talking to Edwards earlier. However, the story is important and may have been where Cooper got the idea. He may have been part of it directly or indirectly. IMO, Kirkley added the plane config to make the story fit Cooper better but it doesn't diminish the potential relationship.

 

 

In May 1968, I was scheduled to "The Ranch" for a special project. Ranch operations were always on a hush-hush, need-to-know basis. When hired by the CIA, all employees are required to sign a non-disclosure agreement. You promise not to reveal any information relating to "intelligence sources or methods" without first securing authorization. The slightest violation would compel threats of prosecution and severe consequences. No copy of this document was given to the employee. Clearance levels were granted for special ops as you were vetted.

At "The Ranch" details of the mission were given when you arrived on site. We were told that the training was for testing the feasibility of making aerial deliveries into Tibet. This highly secret project was the first of its kind. We were to drop cargo and jump out of a Southern Air Transport "sanitized" Boeing 727 jet. The tail number was the only marking on this stark aluminum plane.

The team included Lou Rucker (OSS/CIA), T.J. Thompson (MSO-55/CIA), Bob Herald (MSO-55/ AFS), Fred Barnowski (MSO-42/CIA), Jack Manska (CIA), Bill Welk (727 pilot), Jim Rhyne (Volpar Turbo Beech pilot), Johnny Kirkley (CJ-64/AFS), Billy Bowles (RDD-57/AFS), and a couple other "Kickers."
The passenger compartment of the 727 was fitted with roller conveyers to transport the cargo out the rear for drops. The rear stairwell was removed and retrofitted with stainless sheet metal to make a sliding board. The cargo was loaded in large cardboard boxes rigged with parachutes and tied to pallets atop the roller conveyers. The process of aerial delivery was the same as in other aircraft. The load to be dropped on each pass was untied and moved to the rear against a nylon strap. When the pilot gave the order to drop, the strap was cut and the load was pushed out the rear.

The cargo drops went without a hitch. Then we suited up for our parachute jump. We leveled off at 1200 feet. The cabin was depressurized, flaps were set at about 15°, the landing gear was lowered to create drag to maintain 150 knots, and the exit ramp was lowered. When we got over the jump spot, the pilot gave the signal and we slid out the rear of the plane. Compared to jumping out of a prop plane, there was no noise or prop blast. It was quiet and there was hardly a jerk when the static cord released. We floated down with the greatest of ease. Knowing what to expect, we were all excited to make a second jump. The tests went well and the project was approved and ready to go. However, the funding was cut and the 727 Tibet project was cancelled, much to our chagrin.

Postscript: Fast forward to Monday morning, November 29, 1971. When I retired from Air America in August 1969, the "Call of the Wild" lured me to Alaska. I decided to put my University of Alabama Bachelor of Science business degree to use. I had just begun the second year of owning and operating the Polar Bar on East 5th Avenue in Anchorage. I was having a cup of coffee and talking with a customer when two suits walked through the door. They showed me their FBI badges and said they were investigating a Northwest Airline Boeing 727 skyjacking on the night before Thanksgiving. They knew I had jumped out of a 727 with Air America and wanted to ask me a few questions. Since their statement was correct, I assumed they had been talking to the CIA. First, they wanted to know where I was on Wednesday night. When I explained I was working the bar they showed me a drawing of Dan Cooper, asking if I knew him. I said it did resemble Lou Banta (CJ-51), a smokejumper I had worked with at Air America, but he wasn't on the 727 jump project in Thailand. As a coincidence, Louie happened to live in Oregon not far from where Cooper supposedly exited the plane. However, after being investigated, Banta was exonerated. We had a good laugh in Portland at the 2008 Air America Reunion. D.B. Cooper became a cult hero and remains the only unsolved skyjacking in American aviation history. In past years a standing joke at Smokejumper and Air America reunions was, "D.B. Cooper Lives!"

 

..........

This is the earlier piece where he did NOT note the plane configuration and named Louie Banta (CJ-51), (he was researched and exonerated)

https://dc.ewu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1085&context=smokejumper_mag

 

Kirkley was later selected as one of seven air-freight specialists sent to Takhli, Thailand, on a secret mission to train to jump and drop freight from a commercial Boeing 727 jet. “There was unrest in Tibet on the Chinese border and the CIA wanted to do some tests to see if it was feasible to make high-altitude drops of paratroopers and cargo from a 727,” he said.

After making a few jumps and dropping several loads of cargo, Kirkley said the mission was eventually scrubbed.

“Fast-forward to the first week in December of 1971 in Anchorage, Alaska,” Kirkley said, continuing his story about being trained to jump from the back of a Boeing 727. “I was in my second year of owning and operating the Polar Bar on Fifth Avenue in downtown Anchorage. I was having a cup of coffee and talking
to a customer when two men dressed in suits entered the bar. They showed me their FBI identifications and told me that they were investigating a skyjacking that had taken place in Portland, Ore., on Nov. 24, the day before Thanksgiving.

“A man called D.B. Cooper had extorted the airline out of $200,000 and jumped from the rear of a Boeing 727 over Oregon. They told me they knew that I had jumped out of a 727 when I was working with Air America,” he said.

“They then showed me a picture of the suspect and asked if I recognized him. I told him that he looked like Louie Banta (CJ-51), who had been a smokejumper in Oregon and worked with me in Air America, although I didn’t recall him being one of the seven who jumped on the 727 project in Thailand. As it turned out, Louie also lived in Oregon, where D.B. Cooper deplaned, but Banta was thoroughly exoner- ated and Cooper has never been found.

“Over the years since, it has become a standing joke at smokejumper and Air America reunions that D.B. Cooper lives,” Kirkley laughed, adding that his close friend and former Alabama track teammate Charley Moseley was also questioned by the FBI about the still- unsolved D.B. Cooper incident.

Edited by FLYJACK

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43 minutes ago, RobertMBlevins said:

It is feasible that someone from Air America was Cooper. But one thing that puts me off that idea, or the idea Cooper was (recent) ex-military is his manner of dress. I think of him as low budget. Cheap suit, raincoat, loafers...

It is my belief that Cooper either worked for Boeing at one time, or knew someone who did...and that it involved the 727. 

He wasn't wearing loafers, another myth..

It was laceless ankle length shoes.

No evidence Cooper worked for Boeing. He had flying knowledge, didn't understand the rear stairs.

For a Boeing employee to commit a high profile crime like that in SEATTLE that would have led to his easy identification. That is almost like robbing the bank you frequently use. 

As for Air America... maybe he was involved or just heard about it, but there is a very high probability Cooper was in Vietnam..

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21 minutes ago, FLYJACK said:

He wasn't wearing loafers, another myth..

It was laceless ankle length shoes.

No evidence Cooper worked for Boeing. He had flying knowledge, didn't understand the rear stairs.

For a Boeing employee to commit a high profile crime like that in SEATTLE that would have led to his easy identification. That is almost like robbing the bank you frequently use. 

As for Air America... maybe he was involved or just heard about it, but there is a very high probability Cooper was in Vietnam..

I agree. Cooper having worked at Boeing has only ever been speculation, and while it seems to explain many things nicely at first, if you dig deeper, there's some problems with the idea (like an employee not knowing how to open the stairs, as you said!). I believe Tom Kaye has also said that Boeing would've likely been a poor match for the type of workplace environment the tie particles could have come from. These things don't stop people from looking for new suspects specifically with Boeing backgrounds, though - probably because of how pervasive the idea that he MUST have worked there has become.

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20 hours ago, RobertMBlevins said:

Funny when I respond fairly intelligently to things like, 'He doesn't match the evidence,' or 'everyone lied'...or just lay the truth on you, 

(As opposed to the hateful crap some of you like to post about me and mine under your phony identities.)

It gets REAL quiet for a while. 

I guess you could look at it that way. Or perhaps you could look at it a little more logically, and realize that not everyone is glued to this forum and actually has a life away from it. I know that's hard to believe, but it's true. For example, instead of responding to your post that has probably been repeated now for the 20th or so time (I can't say for sure because like Jo Weber's old posts, I made it through about 5 lines before I moved on), I spent this morning taking care of some mechanical issues with my daughters car. Then it was on to the clinic to get my son, who became ill yesterday, a damn Covid test, only to find out they were too busy to see anyone else. "Come back after 2 O'Clock" they said. So I said to hell with it and went and picked up a home test which turned out positive. But, I don't really trust the home test, which begs the question: why did I buy the damn thing in the first place?? So, even though I said I wouldn't it was back to the same clinic late this afternoon where I was finally able to get him tested, and as it turns out, the home test was more accurate than I thought it would be. So, there goes tomorrow's plans of bowling and hitting a bar with some friends, having a few (or more) brews, and listening to a good cover band.  Oddly enough, we had the same plans last weekend and our friends had to bail because their family all had Covid. So, I guess I'll just lay low at home all weekend and watch some football, maybe a good movie or two. At least the Cowboys are in the playoffs. The plus side,  is that I will be available to immediately respond if you post something (for the 20th or so time), so that you won't think that everyone is running scared from your "fairly intelligent" post.

I'm just venting here. It's not been a good day and I was looking forward to a fun weekend. My son is fine, he feels much better today than yesterday. But, the fridge is full of beer. Things could be worse.

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1 hour ago, RobertMBlevins said:

...come to the Cooper party so poorly dressed for the occasion? Suit and shoes? Seems unlikely.

I believe I've posted here a number of times that it really isn't a problem to jump in a suit, and anyone with jump experience would know that. The only part that could give you a problem might be the tie, and clearly he took that off. Also, the laceless, ankle high shoes with the Vibram type soles that Flyjack has posted would also work fine. So it seems that Cooper dressed just fine for the 'occasion' of blending in as an airline passenger.

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I got Edwards book for Christmas. I avoided reading Cooper books until I developed an independent understanding of the case, though I did get Tosaw's book for the money serial numbers. Without a high case knowledge level you can't read them critically and easily get tainted by author bias.

First off, it looks amazing, the cover is great, the images are top notch the citations are extremely thorough. It will be a must have for anybody interested in the Cooper case.

I haven't read it thoroughly but my book has a print flaw,,, "chapter 2" on the top left page goes right through chapter 6. Hopefully that gets corrected and this one goes up in value.

I have skimmed it and found an error with the stair lock light.. the light goes on when the handle is moved from the up detent. For the light to go out the handle must be returned to the up detent.

So, if Cooper moved the handle from the up detent but did not push it forward to lower the stairs then the light would be on but the stairs not moved. If Cooper returned the handle to up detent only then would the light go out. For the light to go out the stairs must be up AND the handle back in the up detent position.

IMO, Cooper initially tried to open the stairs but they didn't drop much so he moved them back up putting the handle back in the up detent then opened them again, causing the light to go out briefly.. The handle must be back in the up detent for the light to go out.

Here is a diagram of the NWA 727-51 airstair operation.. there are two door warning lights on the crewman's panel, one is a locked down and one activated by the up detent handle position. 

I don't see anyway that Cooper locked the stairs in the down position.

northwest727-51.thumb.jpg.4a337d5a3b3fe1d07ab1c685118fac0c.jpg

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So called "Witnesses" can be BS'ers or embellishers. When Richard DeCample the fuel truck driver was interviewed back in 1971 by the FBI he claimed he didn't see the hijacker, only the crew as the rear of the plane was dark lights out.

Decamplefbi.png.3b8c98e9a5f1f10c28be2d8230923bd8.png

 

In a 2017 media interview he claimed he saw the face of the hijacker. He embellished his story for the media because he knew that elevated his experience and involvement.

https://www.king5.com/article/news/local/investigations/author-invites-public-to-solve-db-cooper-mystery/281-493832199

"Richard DeCample remembers the moment he saw one of the most famous faces in American history.

"I had hooked up to the airplane and I was under the wing, but I could look up and I could see him looking out, but I'm like, 'What can he see?'"

"DeCample says he was in the process of transferring fuel to the plan when he glanced toward a cabin window and saw the face that's been memorialized in those famous DB Cooper sketches."

Blevins so called witnesses are not credible either. They are making claims/opinions 40+ years later about an event they have no direct knowledge of to an amateur researcher not under penalty of perjury. Witnesses like this, including McCoy's kids need corroboration because people lie, exaggerate, speculate and manufacture memories all the time. 

 

When Chaucer tried to discredit Ratazcak I posted news reports going back over the years that confirm Ratazcak was telling the same story..  Chaucer then applied his worn out strawman tactic to claim I only rely on news reports.. where did Chaucer go by the way.. he seems to have run off after his argument got decimated with the facts. 

Ratazcak is solid.

Chaucer's Columbia R argument amounts to discrediting Rataczak, the FBI, Soderlind, me, the crew, logic, Santa Claus, Ghandi, the sled test and participants..   with no evidence to support it.

The totality of the evidence shows the "bump" occurred between Merwin and Battleground. 

The only possible way Cooper jumped into or next to the Columbia is if the "bump" was not Cooper leaving the plane.

That is an entirely different argument and I have seen no evidence to support that. The big "bump" felt by the crew was the last one..

 

Edited by FLYJACK
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1 hour ago, FLYJACK said:

I got Edwards book for Christmas. I avoided reading Cooper books until I developed an independent understanding of the case, though I did get Tosaw's book for the money serial numbers. Without a high case knowledge level you can't read them critically and easily get tainted by author bias.

I've read only two, Gray's book and Bruce's book. I liked both. Gray's book is really the one that got me more interested in the case.

I intend to read Marty's book, I just haven't got around to getting it yet. 

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1 hour ago, RobertMBlevins said:

Here is something for you. For a while now I have suspected that you, Flyjack, are also the reviewer at Amazon who goes by the name Silence DoGood. Am I right about that, or not? If so, I like it. I'm a big fan of Benjamin Franklin and read the book about his life at least twice. 

No, not me, I have never reviewed any book on Amazon or online ever.

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I think these series of memos posted here support Walt Reca's flight path. NWA said in the memo posted here that they were 99% certain the placard found in NORTHERN Skamania County was from flight 305. Skamania County is EAST of the published flight path and would comport with the path Carl Laurin showed on the documentary "The Real D.B. Cooper."

At CooperCon 2021, I spoke with Catherine Scott and her fiance, who is a pilot. They said the plane was flown manually and the pilots didn't know exactly where they were. The plane was directed from Seattle by NWA out of Sacramento, where there is a heavy CIA presence.

In several Knight Ridder articles published in November 1996, FBI agent Ralph Himmelsbach said he learned for the first time at his retirement party from Rataczak that the plane was flown manually and not on autopilot, as was previously reported by NWA. He also stated the plane was much further EAST than previously believed.  In another article, he said the flight path could have been off by as much as 80 DEGREES (that's huge distance)...which puts Reca's landing spot well within the possible drop zone.

Also at CooperCon 2021, air traffic controller Cliff Ammerman said he spoke to the pilots only twice. All ground-to-air contact and flight direction was provided by NWA.  In several FBI documents, they note that they are basing their information on what has been provided by NWA. 

What I would like to find out is who was on the Board of Directors of NWA from around 1969-1974 and also on the Vinnell Corporation's Board during the same time frame. 

 

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Robert, you occasionally exhort people to stand up for what is right. I will do that now.

 

14 hours ago, RobertMBlevins said:

I sent the SUFON admins to a few links to the comments he allows about me...one of the organizers for SUFON. And...to his comment about SUFON he did for the Cooper Forum. I also dropped a bit of his history on them. 

I asked the admins to block him from the SUFON Facebook page

 

3 hours ago, RobertMBlevins said:

After some discussions... It's been decided he is NOT welcome.

 

You, sir, are an asshole and a hypocrite. This is the act of a petulant child.

Bruce has been a member of that community far longer than you have. Maybe someone should go back a few pages on this forum and find your post where you mock Bruce for his belief in UFO's and abductions. Maybe we should send that to SUFON. Or should we send it directly to Susan?

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17 hours ago, RobertMBlevins said:

And the biggest question of all is, why do you some of you defend someone who is obviously so deep in the Hate Ditch he can't crawl out?

You're the one who spews hate. You're the one who keeps throwing around old laundry. You're the one who keeps trying to manipulate others' behavior. You're the one who throws petulant fits like you did yesterday.

What goes on in the comments section of Bruce's site - I don't think that's hate. I think that's mockery. Most of these people have long since given up on trying to convince you to be rational.

 

 

Edited by dudeman17
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On a lighter note for everyone else...

It turns out that copies of Ha Ha Ha are readily available. If anyone is interested in getting one, PM me and I will give you the contact. I am not selling these myself. I have no personal stake in their sale. I can just refer you to somebody who is.

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