DB Cooper

[FLYJACK 654]

1 hour ago, RobertMBlevins said:

Why is it so complicated about the chutes? I grow tired of explaining this stuff, although I will one more time. 

Don't bother, you have no understanding of the issue,,

In fact, you are so confused you don't see your own argument contradicts itself, per usual.

 

If Cossey is a serial liar and provided no proof of the chute descriptions and both of the chutes came from Hayden then how do we know the chute Cooper took was the NB6/8 described by Cossey.

PLUS, there were the two backpack cards that don't match Cossey's description. One was returned to Hayden.

 

If anybody bought "Into the Blast", demand your money back.

Edited January 5, 2022 by FLYJACK

[FLYJACK 654]

9 hours ago, RobertMBlevins said:

Just because Greg thought you might be that Gypsy guy doesn't mean it's true. I only ASKED if it was you. Then you responded with 'everybody knows who he is'. And the rest was one tirade after another. You've been doing this ever since I started asking pointed questions about your suspect, Fred Hahneman. You sure don't like being questioned, that's for sure. But you have no evidence, or if you do...you haven't presented a thing on him yet. 

But...you keep coming after OTHER suspects while failing to answer even the most obvious questions about Hahneman. You have been hostile ever since. 

My apologies Flyjack, but you were calling me a serial liar long BEFORE Greg told me his suspicions about you. 

You were using innuendo to smear me with a lie.. repeatedly, you knew I had you on ignore so I couldn't respond.

I have no problem with legitimate questions on Hahneman. You didn't do that, you made false claims, assumptions and accused me of things were not true.

I have told you I am not presenting the case for Hahneman and I have some very good reasons for it.

For other suspects, I am only pointing out the evidence. If you or anybody has evidence against Hahneman, not assumptions then I want to hear it.. but you have nothing. You keep throwing out assumptions and saying I have nothing.. You are wrong.

Edited January 5, 2022 by FLYJACK

[FLYJACK 654]

8 hours ago, RobertMBlevins said:

Flyjack: I wanted to add that if you have a problem with this Gypsy23 issue, and don't support the idea of hate-mongering within the DB Cooper community at large...that you go to the source. Talk to Bruce Smith and tell him to pay more attention to the crap he allows at his website.

 

That has nothing to do with me and is not my problem.

In fact, I mentioned it to Bruce a while back and ironically you still accused me of being part of it... crazy.

Edited January 5, 2022 by FLYJACK

[FLYJACK 654]

8 hours ago, RobertMBlevins said:

Wrong, Flyjack. The death penalty was only applicable, and could only be sought...if the hijacker's actions caused the death of another. Otherwise it was a minimum twenty year sentence. And for those crimes where the death penalty is not in force...there IS a Statute of Limitations.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/49/46502

In US Federal law, the only two crimes that are punishable by death without the death of another person are espionage and treason. In all the others...someone has to die. Since no one died as a result of the Cooper hijacking, this is the reason the FBI pursued the John Doe warrant. 

https://deathpenaltyinfo.org/stories/federal-laws-providing-death-penalty

No you are wrong,, that is an amended statute. Also, Capital offences were not just for a death, it included kidnapping.

This is why I don't like dealing with you, you just get so much wrong that I have to correct for you.

In fact, in 1972 for Hahneman the Prosecutor initially stated he was charging Air Piracy, Kidnapping and Extortion... seeking the death penalty. 

So, that John Doe warrant was not necessary. They made it public as an insurance policy but if Cooper lived it would have discouraged him from coming forward. The effect of the JD warrant undermined the case. Without that warrant, if Cooper lived he may have come forward.

They should not have publicized it or had it sealed if that was possible.

IMO, it was more of a publicity stunt.

 

 

Pub. L. 103–322, title VI, § 60003(c), as added by Pub. L. 109–177, title II, § 211(a), Mar. 9, 2006, 120 Stat. 230, provided that:

“(c)Death Penalty Procedures for Certain Previous Aircraft Piracy Violations.—

An individual convicted of violating section 46502 of title 49, United States Code, or its predecessor, may be sentenced to death in accordance with the procedures established in chapter 228 of title 18, United States Code, if for any offense committed before the enactment of the Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act of 1994 (Public Law 103–322) [Sept. 13, 1994], but after the enactment of the Antihijacking Act of 1974 (Public Law 93–366) [Aug. 5, 1974], it is determined by the finder of fact, before consideration of the factors set forth in sections 3591(a)(2) and 3592(a) and (c) of title 18, United States Code, that one or more of the factors set forth in former section 46503(c)(2) of title 49, United States Code, or its predecessor, has been proven by the Government to exist, beyond a reasonable doubt, and that none of the factors set forth in former section 46503(c)(1) of title 49, United States Code, or its predecessor, has been proven by the defendant to exist, by a preponderance of the information. The meaning of the term ‘especially heinous, cruel, or depraved’, as used in the factor set forth in former section 46503(c)(2)(B)(iv) of title 49, United States Code, or its predecessor, shall be narrowed by adding the limiting language ‘in that it involved torture or serious physical abuse to the victim’, and shall be construed as when that term is used in section 3592(c)(6) of title 18, United States Code.”

 

Edited January 5, 2022 by FLYJACK

[Coopericane 44]

Part 66 is here guys, right on schedule. https://vault.fbi.gov/D-B-Cooper /d.b.-cooper-part-66-of-66/view

[FLYJACK 654]

1 hour ago, Coopericane said:

Part 66 is here guys, right on schedule. https://vault.fbi.gov/D-B-Cooper /d.b.-cooper-part-66-of-66/view

I didn't see any new pages,, all repeats.

[FLYJACK 654]

1 hour ago, RobertMBlevins said:

The Feds didn't add a death penalty possibility to the hijacking statutes until 1974...

Cooper was under the old guidelines, and as such, could not have the penalty imposed upon him anyway. 

Didn't matter much, because the death penalty was suspended in the US between 72-76. 

In other words...there was never a chance in hell that Cooper, even if he were caught later, would have ever faced the death penalty. 

This...is why...the Feds got themselves a John Doe warrant. 

There was a lot going on in the mid-70's regarding a new type of crime...hijacking for fun and profit...court cases, new statutes, an all-time low on the support of capital punishment anyway. If the Feds don't try for the Doe warrant, Cooper may have been able to escape prosecution later. Of course if the Feds can't prosecute due to the Statute of Limitations, the states probably wouldn't have been able to, either. Everyone involved in seeking Cooper knew these things. 

Besides, Flyjack. You are not using common sense here. If Cooper truly WERE eligible for the death penalty...the Federal judge would have reminded the FBI that no John Doe warrant was necessary. 

You are still wrong..

No statute of limitations for a capital crime.

"At the end of the hearing, magistrate Michael J. Osman recommended that Hahneman be transferred to Alexandria. Va., to face charges of air piracy, kidnaping and assault with a deadly weapon. Brian P. Gettings, U.S. attorney for Eastern Virginia, said in Alexandria he may ask for the death penalty for Hahneman."

"the FBI obtained a federal warrant in U.S. District Court in Alexandria, Va., Wednesday charging Hahneman with air piracy and kidnaping. The maximum penalty for hijacking a plane is death."

 

and the money shot...

[FLYJACK 654]

2 hours ago, RobertMBlevins said:

Uninformed prosecutor. I see also your document above dated April 1976 stating that the DOJ says a death penalty was involved. 

Also uninformed. 

The death penalty was not in force at that time. Georgia v Gregg was a few months later, one of the Supreme Court Decisions restoring the death penalty. Remember the Manson Girls? When the death penalty was rescinded, they all had their sentences changed to life, with the possibility of parole. (Not that any of them will actually be released lol) Even when the statute was amended again to re-impose death, the courts could not do that to the Manson girls due to double jeopardy type situations. 

You don't know everything Flyjack. I have done a couple of articles on the history and good-or-bad concepts of the death penalty in America. One of them got a half million views and was endorsed by a couple of anti-capital punishment groups. So I am pretty familiar with the rules and how they have worked over the years. Probably...it seems...better than some law enforcement groups realized back in the 70s. 

Seeing the DOJ's paper on Cooper up there, and another prosecutor saying he's going for a death penalty on Hahneman when the death penalty had already been struck down by the Supreme Court that same year...

Well, let's just say it's one of the reasons why the DOJ and the FBI had no luck finding Cooper. Half the time they weren't able to separate their heads from their asses. 

Federal Kidnapping has no statute of limitations and they crossed State lines.

Fleeing justice has no statute of limitations.

Death penalty was applicable at the time of the crime(s) as correctly stated in that document and the Hahneman statements were also before the June 29 suspension. 

So, neither are uninformed as you claim.

Your argument is that Capital crimes committed before the death penalty suspension no longer were capital crimes therefore eliminating the statute of limitations, this is not necessarily true. The death penalty was suspended as a punishment but the death penalty was not ruled unconstitutional. That is not the same as imposing a statute of limitations for prior crimes. The DOJ in the FBI note above clearly believed that it was a Capital crime at the time the crime was committed even though that punishment was temporarily suspended. I'll go with the DOJ but it be would an argument for lawyer in that situation.

The JD warrant was more about publicity.. 

 

 

 

Edited January 6, 2022 by FLYJACK

[FLYJACK 654]

1 hour ago, RobertMBlevins said:

If there was no Statute of Limitations on the Cooper hijacking...

Then why would the FBI go in front of a Federal judge to get a John Doe warrant? The only answer is not 'for publicity'. No Federal judge is going to go for that kind of stunt. 

The reason is because they wanted the warrant before the Statute expired. 

News sources all over the Northwest had been touting the existence of the Statute for months prior to its expiration in November 1976. Sometimes they brought in law enforcement figures in these reports. 

You are making an assumption without facts.. you assume the DOJ was wrong and the SOL applied retroactively to crimes before the death penalty suspension. 

 

There were charges that could still be applied that did not have a statute of limitations other than air piracy..

and the John Doe warrant included the Hogg Act and Air Piracy.

Since the DOJ determined in '76 that the statute didn't apply it must have been done for another reason.. publicity or FBI internal politics.

 

So game this out.

If they don't get the warrant and the media blasts that the statute of limitations passed then Cooper if he lived would believe he could come forward not knowing he could still face charges.  

If they get the warrant and publicize it Cooper never comes forward if he had lived.. and that is what happened..

That is the point,, the JD warrant insured that Cooper would never come forward.

IN 1976 the FBI admitted that they didn't have enough evidence and could only get a conviction if Coper cooperated.. The JD warrant ended Cooper's cooperation and effectively ended the case.

The JD warrant publicity forced Cooper to NOT talk.. was that intention or a screwup.

 

Edited January 6, 2022 by FLYJACK

[FLYJACK 654]

6 hours ago, RobertMBlevins said:

They NEVER would have sought the death penalty against Cooper anyway. No one was hurt. 

Neither did they seek it against Fred Hahneman, but then he cut a deal with the Feds for jail time anyway. 

Everyone in America who was on Death Row in 1972 got their sentences commuted to sentences in jail OTHER than death. When the death penalty was reinstated in 1976, none of those people were brought back into court and re-sentenced to death. 

The FBI said this, said that. Thought the death penalty might be on the table. Blah, blah, frickin' blah. They should have known better. No prosecutor would have filed for it without a death involved in the crime along the line somewhere. 

You don't go in front of Federal judges and ask them to bypass someone's rights under the 14th Amendment (Equal rights under the law, the Statute of Limitations, other stuff) just for publicity. The reason the FBI pursued the warrant is for insurance. 1972 was the same year they suspended the death penalty, and many cases regarding rights here or there were going through the Supreme Court. It was a confusing time in American history. I don't think the FBI and DOJ were sure what to do. So just to ensure they could keep chasing Cooper after 11/24/1976 they went to court for the John Doe. 

Notice the judge does not allow any possible accomplices to be charged after that date. It was not a blanket warrant, which most judges would not do anyway when the identity of the perp is not known. People have a right to face their accusers, and if the FBI failed in their effort to figure out who Cooper was...that is not Cooper's fault...but the FBI found a friendly judge and basically shoved the US Constitution under the carpet for the FBI. 

On a side non-Cooper note, here is an interesting tidbit. 

Why did the WA State Supreme Court rule fairly recently that the death penalty was unconstitutional as it relates to the WA State Constitution? It started when King County/Seattle prosecutor Norm Maleng cut a deal and took death off the table...as long as the most heinous murderer in WA history told them where he hid the bodies of the women he killed. Gary Ridgway ('Green River Killer') was offered this deal and cooperated. Now he sits in jail for life. 

The death penalty suspension ended in July 1976 and the John Doe warrant was in November 1976.

The argument that they wouldn't seek the death penalty anyway doesn't matter for a crime to be a capital crime.

The DOJ opinion that the statute of limitations doesn't apply because the crime was a death penalty crime at the time of the offence is a tough one to overcome, they knew the law and had access to cases. You need an example of the death penalty suspension causing the imposition of a statute of limitations for a capital crime committed prior.

and we know there were several crimes that could be charged..

But, it doesn't matter because the John Doe warrant was issued after the death penalty suspension ended.

That means that the death penalty suspension argument is mute.

 

The FBI got the John Doe warrant after the death penalty suspension ended and we know based on the DOJ and Hahneman prosecutor that there was a capital crime committed prior to the suspension.

That means, at the time the warrant was issued there was no statute of limitations.

Then why did they seek one???  

Publicity?

Internal politics?

[FLYJACK 654]

12 hours ago, RobertMBlevins said:

Why would a Federal judge in Portland issue a warrant when no warrant was needed? If you are right about what you say regarding no Statute of Limitations...why would the FBI rush to the courthouse on the last day and obtain one, and if it wasn't needed...why would a judge issue one?

Exactly... now you get it..

Why indeed.

The effect was that Cooper if he had lived would never come forward and the FBI admitted in 1976 that they only had a case if he cooperated.

Edited January 7, 2022 by FLYJACK

[FLYJACK 654]

14 minutes ago, RobertMBlevins said:

Actually...that's NOT what I meant. I wasn't agreeing with you. 

FBI agents and Federal prosecutors don't go in front of Federal judges for a warrant unless they are sure they need one. They don't do these things on a lark. It tends to piss off the judge. 

There are other ways to convict someone of a crime if you bring them in for questioning, get a search warrant, start getting their alibis, etc. But you have to have a person to do this all to first. Depending on how Cooper's alibi, witness ID's, backgrounds, etc turned out...they could have gotten a conviction. 

I don't believe the warrant was any kind of a ploy. I believe it was obtained so if they find out who Cooper might be later...they wouldn't be left holding the bag with his lawyer. 

No, that was exactly what you meant. You just don't realize it.

The warrant was not neccessary to extend the statute of limitiations..

Then why??

From there we can only speculate but the result effectively ended the case by ensuring Cooper wouldn't talk.

 

and you are incorrect, the FBI in1976 said that they didn't have enough evidence and witnesses memories had faded, only Cooper's cooperation would get a prosecution. Both McCoy and Hahneman weren't cooperating so how do you get to prosecution for Cooper with no cooperation.. as the FBI said,, you don't.

They needed Cooper's cooperation, that John Doe warrant ended that.

Edited January 7, 2022 by FLYJACK

[ParrotheadVol 70]

13 hours ago, RobertMBlevins said:

You also have to remember that practically every news source in the Northwest starting harping on, and running articles about...the upcoming Statute of Limitations date. (November 24, 1976) And they started doing this as the fifth anniversary of the hijacking approached. Sometimes they had legal eagles quoted in these articles or video news bits. 

Is this actually true? It seems to me that if it were true, one should be able to find such articles by a simple google search. I've tried, and while I can find an article or two from when the John Doe warrant was acquired, I have been unable to find any such results that show that "practically every news source in the Northwest was harping on, and running articles about...the upcoming Statute of Limitations date". I'm not saying that they don't exist, but that I have been unable to find any. Perhaps you could link a couple?

[FLYJACK 654]

24 minutes ago, ParrotheadVol said:

Is this actually true? It seems to me that if it were true, one should be able to find such articles by a simple google search. I've tried, and while I can find an article or two from when the John Doe warrant was acquired, I have been unable to find any such results that show that "practically every news source in the Northwest was harping on, and running articles about...the upcoming Statute of Limitations date". I'm not saying that they don't exist, but that I have been unable to find any. Perhaps you could link a couple?

Here, it was a last minute thing to STOP Cooper from coming forward and getting publicity.

Since the FBI admitted they only had a case if Cooper cooperated then the warrant effectively ended the case..

 

"On the afternoon of Nov. 24, 1976, the day the five-year federal statute of limitations would have expired on Cooper's crimes - the feds had nightmares of headlines saying, ``D.B., Come Home, All Is Forgiven'' - Himmelsbach and Collins rushed the case into a grand jury room and, by sundown, had secured a ``John Doe'' indictment against Cooper on charges of air piracy and extortion. That means the case is still open and Cooper can still be prosecuted, something Himmelsbach, even though long retired, appears to relish."

 

Edited January 7, 2022 by FLYJACK

[FLYJACK 654]

This news article says they got the JD warrant as a precaution even though DOJ believed there was no statute of limitations on Cooper's crime..

 

and from a few weeks earlier in November '76 Himmelsbach rejected the Statute of Limitations.

 

Argument...

The DOJ rejected the Statute of Limitations even after the John Doe Warrant.

The FBI/Himmelsbach rejected the Statute of Limitations.

The John Doe Warrant was last minute as a precaution by Himmelsbach and to stop Cooper from coming forward.

The FBI admitted they only had a case if Cooper cooperated.

The temporary suspension of the death penalty is completely irrelevant.

 

Conclusion..

The John Doe warrant effectively ended the prosecution of a suspect in the Cooper case.

Edited January 7, 2022 by FLYJACK

[ParrotheadVol 70]

I don't disagree. But my question, is were there really a lot of news stories that were talking about the SOL being up soon? Blevins always says that, but I've been unable to find any. Maybe I'm just looking in the wrong place?

[FLYJACK 654]

51 minutes ago, ParrotheadVol said:

I don't disagree. But my question, is were there really a lot of news stories that were talking about the SOL being up soon? Blevins always says that, but I've been unable to find any. Maybe I'm just looking in the wrong place?

The FBI was concerned about the media but no indication that played a role in obtaining the warrant. 

They seemed to be more concerned with the media perhaps making Cooper into a "hero" if he came forward..

Edited January 7, 2022 by FLYJACK

[FLYJACK 654]

1 hour ago, RobertMBlevins said:

Why in the heck would the FBI spend millions of dollars and thousands of man-hours seeking one of the most wanted criminals in America for five years...

And then do something...according to you...that would prevent Cooper from coming forward. They probably wished he would so they could stuff him into jail. And end the investigation. 

They could have a built a case against Cooper...even if he DOESN'T cooperate. Most criminals don't cooperate with the cops unless they are doing it to get a better plea deal. That's normal. 

Your argument makes little sense. Seems to me the FBI and DOJ just weren't 100% sure whether the Statute of Limitations would be invoked or not. Himmelsbach's opinion is moot. He wasn't a Federal prosecutor. What the FBI would have done if Cooper came forward is to check his bank records, his movements around the time of the hijacking, and they would have questioned (see: hammered on) everyone he ever knew. Plus press and media would have been scrambling once he came forward to investigate him for the hijacking as well. Plus the FBI would know things that only the hijacker knew, and they would have come after him that way as well. If he says he's Cooper in public, then the FBI is going to find out whether he's telling the truth or not...and they will do this with every resource they have. There are also the half-dozen or so prints from the hijacking that the FBI thought were from the hijacker. 

The FBI uses the argument in one news article that because Cooper is a fugitive from justice, that the Statute of Limitations would not apply. That is only when they have a name on a warrant and know who they are looking for. It does not apply to an unidentified criminal. Sure...if you rob a bank and flee...and they identify who you are...they can get a warrant and just renewing it forever if they wish. But at the heart of the Statute of Limitations is the idea that if they can't figure out who you are after a certain number of years, then they run out of time to do that. The perpetrator being NOT YET IDENTIFIED is the key to the matter when it comes to the SOL. 

It HAS been said that even if the SOL was found to be valid...that perhaps state charges would have been filed, but no one can say for sure. There has been debate about it. Articles by the New York Times about Cooper have mentioned the upcoming Statute of Limitations, and there seems to be some concern about that from the FBI. 

But...if they file a John Doe warrant on him at the last minute using the Hobbs Act, then there is no longer a Statute of Limitations. The FBI wasn't hoping Cooper wouldn't come forward. They were simply covering the bases. 

Remember something here. Until the John Doe warrant was issued, Cooper was not actually charged with a crime. They were just trying to find out who he was and arrest him. THEN he would be charged. But the original Aircraft Piracy Act did not come with a death penalty, unless someone, anyone, died or was killed as a result of such piracy. If not...then there is a Statute of Limitations going. 

At the last minute in 1976, Cooper is charged in absentia under the Hobbs Act...and then no more worries from the FBI whether some slick lawyer (Melvin Belli or F. Lee Bailey from that era come to mind) could get Cooper off on an SOL technicality. So the FBI goes for the Hobbs Act and they can keep seeking Cooper as long as they wish. 

Look at that excerpt from the document above. "...media interest in this case is building because of the possibility of the Statute of Limitations running out in November 1976..."

*Possibility* is the key word here. There is no mention that the SOL does not apply. Even the FBI isn't sure. 

 

Those are facts.. you have no argument here. You are just making baseless assumptions as usual.

It is against the rules of logic and reason to reject facts based on assumptions. Read a logic book.

My conclusion is that was the effect, not necessarily the intention.

We can only speculate on their motive(s)..

Your initial claim was the SOL applied due to the suspension of the death penalty, that was wrong. Now, you shift your argument to some other assumption. See the pattern, you have an opinion then contort reality to fit it no matter what the facts are.

 

Here Blevins argument blown up.. blowed up real good.

JD warrant issued in spite of US Attorney opinion that the SOL did not apply.

 

Edited January 8, 2022 by FLYJACK

[FLYJACK 654]

6 hours ago, RobertMBlevins said:

there is no death penalty in place for skyjacking unless a death somehow happens as a result of that hijacking. So the DOJ was WRONG...or else they weren't sure either. 

Not true.

The FBI files clearly state the death penalty applied and even the prosecutor for Hahneman was going to apply the death penalty before the suspension, that included kidnapping.

There was no SOL and yes the defence lawyer would raise it.

The warrant was a last minute thing pushed by Himmelsbach against his own opinion/DOJ/US Attorney on SOL.

 

I didn't say it was a stunt,, I said that was the effect. Why are you lying.

Your suspension of the death penalty argument has failed and now you throw every assumption and opinion to make something stick. You mix some facts with assumptions and falsehoods to push an opinion. Now, you have thrown so much at this I don't even know what your conclusion is anymore.

I like puzzles but there needs to be an actual solution.

I just don't care to unwind your logic.

 

My conclusion is valid. The EFFECT of the warrant was that Cooper wouldn't come forward making this case far more difficult to solve.

 

If you want to think something else, have at it.

 

 

[FLYJACK 654]

44 minutes ago, RobertMBlevins said:

Since you seem to have all the answers, how about showing everyone where in US Federal Code it calls for the death penalty in a hijacking case where no one gets killed...

Nobody's calling you a liar. You are misinformed is all. 

 

A capital crime has the option of the death penalty, not that it is required or applied.

In other words, you don't need to "call for the death penalty". 

If the offense has an option of death,, no statute of limitations. 

It doesn't matter if there was no death in the crime, if that is an option then it is a "capital offense".

That is exactly what the US attorney says here after conferring with DOJ...

The DOJ/US Attorney and FBI were correct.

The Hahneman prosecutor was also correct.

You are just wrong.

 

Edited January 8, 2022 by FLYJACK

[FLYJACK 654]

1 hour ago, RobertMBlevins said:

I didn't ask to see an opinion from the DOJ. You already posted that. And we already know of another document, also shown, that says the FBI has concern about the upcoming Statute of Limitations. 

Show where it says in Federal statutes that death is an option in hijacking cases where no one died as a result of the hijacking.

There isn't one. Prison yes. Death no. 

And if death isn't an option in those cases...the SOL applies. That's why the FBI got a John Doe warrant. What Cooper did was not a capital offense. What he did was a violation of the Hobbs Act...and like an Air Piracy charge...is NOT a capital offense unless there is a dead body one way or another as a result of such violation. 

If any prosecutor, assuming Cooper had been caught, had filed for the death penalty on him, that prosecutor would have been laughed out of the court. 

This is the USA, Mr Canada. Not China. We don't execute people (for example) for knowingly shipping out tainted milk. 

Except for espionage and treason, the Feds don't execute people for crimes unless that crime also causes the death of another. 

 

Blevins, you can't read.. stop wasting my time with this nonsense.

The death penalty only needs to be an option under the charge, not sought.

Your question is flawed and demonstrates your lack of understanding.

The DOJ is correct, you are wrong.

They don't have to seek the death penalty, get it.

You don't get charged with "death penalty", you get charged with "air piracy".

 

Here is Aircraft Piracy am. 1961, no death required for death penalty..

There were many further amendments over the years making it confusing but I don't see it before NORJAK. It looks like that part was amended after 1974.

" ( i ) ( l ) Whoever commits or attempts to commit aircraft piracy, as herein defined, shall be punished—

"(A) by death if the verdict of the jury shall so recommend, or, in the case of a plea of guilty, or a plea of not guilty where the defendant has waived a trial by jury, if the court in its discretion shall so order; or

"(B) by imprisonment for not less than twenty years, if the death penalty is not imposed.

Edited January 8, 2022 by FLYJACK

[FLYJACK 654]

24 minutes ago, RobertMBlevins said:

Neither Air Piracy or the Hobbs Act are capital crimes unless a death of another is involved. 

THAT'S why the Statute of Limitations applies when they couldn't identify the hijacker...

And why the FBI filed for a John Doe warrant at the last minute. Why else would that do that? For entertainment? To piss off a Federal judge who would tell them they don't need a John Doe because there is no SOL for a capital crime?

You have your legal opinion on this and I have mine. The Attorney General probably has his. According to your logic, every Federal crime is automatically a capital crime. I keep telling you that without a special circumstance (murder or death of another, or maybe attempted murder against a witness if you are a drug kingpin) there was no capital case with Cooper. Or unless you engage in espionage or treason against the United States. There never was. 

To everyone else: Don't take my word for it, or even Flyjack's. Just go search out the answer for yourself. 

Flyjack: I also see you weren't able to quote a statute that eliminates the SOL or makes it a capital crime to violate the Air Piracy or Hobbs Act...when no one was killed or died as a result of such crime. 

That's because...(wait for it now) no such statute exists. Those crimes only become capital crimes and are outside the protections of the Statute of Limitations if there is a death involved. 

Wrong.

The DOJ got the law right at the time.

Edited January 8, 2022 by FLYJACK

[FLYJACK 654]

1 hour ago, FLYJACK said:

Wrong.

The DOJ got the law right at the time.

"Mr. McCoy, who is held without bail in the Salt Lake County Jail, faces preliminary examination on the charge April 19. Conviction carries the death penalty."

https://www.nytimes.com/1972/04/11/archives/fbi-recovers-499970-fbi-recovers-499970-in-plane-hijacking-case.html

 

and from the McCoy trial..

 “Something that pleases this court and I’m sure has been weighing heavily on you people’s minds,” he says, “is whether or not you’d eventually have to give this fellow the death penalty. Well, the court’s gonna help you solve that little problem right now. You can, as of now, dismiss that dilemma from your minds.”

  This morning in Washington, the Supreme Court declared the death penalty unconstitutional. McCoy’s life has been spared."

So, the jury was in the position to consider the death penalty for Aircraft Piracy until it was suspended..

The law at the time of McCoy, Hahneman and Cooper included a death penalty option without causing death..

That is why the DOJ/US Attorney and FBI all said no SOL for Cooper.

 

CHECK MATE.

Edited January 9, 2022 by FLYJACK

[FLYJACK 654]

41 minutes ago, RobertMBlevins said:

Then why did the FBI get themselves a John Doe warrant if, according to you, they didn't need one? 

And by the way...this isn't a game of chess. 

I see we are never going to agree on this issue, or on some of the finer points of it. 

So if you want to debate about it any further, show up to the Cooper/UFO event in July and we can stand up on that little stage together. 

Whoever you are, anyway...

When you say we are never going to agree on the finer points you mean the facts,,

You LOST, you are wrong...  yet you still won't admit it..

You just can't accept the facts, that is why people get frustrated with you. You are completely unreasonable. People just give up because you are irrational, then you claim victory. It is crazy.

You can't debate people who won't accept the facts.

Remember this Blevins, this is how you always operate. When the facts prove you wrong you just ignore them. You always do it, you do it with KC. He doesn't fit the Cooper description or profile so you make up excuses or reject the evidence.

Admit you are wrong and move on like Ulis did,,,

You want to be right more than you want to get to the truth.

 

I don't know for a fact why Himmelsbach pushed the last minute JD warrant but I can speculate from his words and the FBI files..

As a precaution and to end media promoting Cooper in a positive way.

but the effect was that Cooper would not come forward.

 

There was no SOL,, they should not have obtained the warrant or had it sealed if possible and let Cooper assume no SOL to come forward if he had lived.

 

 

Edited January 9, 2022 by FLYJACK

[FLYJACK 654]

8 hours ago, RobertMBlevins said:

Does your tirade there mean you WON'T be showing up in July? 

 

Ultimately, the Cooper case is an extremely complex logic puzzle.. with a massive amount of accurate and inaccurate information to process. If you don't have the reasoning and logic skills down you haven't got a chance sorting it out and you will consistently make errors. The case becomes a Rorschach, a confirmation bias exercise and you just see what you want to see.