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quade

DB Cooper

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38 minutes ago, RobertMBlevins said:

Cossey has nothing to do with Hayden's identification of his OWN parachutes. 

When the jet landed in Reno, only two chutes were on board. One had been popped and is still in the hands of the FBI. 

The other was returned to Hayden. 

The phony reserve went out the back prior to the jump. 

Cooper jumped with the other one. 

Flo Schaffner came within a half-inch of identifying KC for Geoff Gray. When she saw his picture, her hands began shaking. 

FBI agent John Jarvis indicated to three witnesses in August 2016 that yes...Christiansen was the hijacker...the FBI knew that...and then knew Christiansen was dead...and that's why the case was closed. You should ask him about this. You seem to have better access to the FBI than anyone else I know. 

Christiansen was looked at by the FBI, but found lacking. Not because he wasn't necessarily Cooper, but because all they had to go on was Lyle Christiansen saying he thought his brother was Cooper. The investigation by Porteous and myself was still a ways down the road. 

NWA could not have provided any records to the FBI anyway on KC. He had been dead for well over their five year limit. Unless an ex-employee is receiving retirement benefits, they purged their employee files every five years. 

Maybe I just made all the evidence and witness testimony up out of thin air. But I don't even think YOU believe that. 

Witness descriptions are notoriously unreliable. 

You still haven't provided one single minuscule scrap of evidence pointing to Hahneman yet, but you still like to make blanket statements on other suspects, and then make wild claims about your own. Like they were in the military for two, perhaps three wars. You haven't even presented his DD214 yet, or an enlistment record. Yet supposedly you were told all this stuff by the FBI.  

All the while ignoring the obvious fact that if the FBI had Hahneman on ice for the hijacking he DID do...and this went on for a dozen years afterward...that they never wondered if Hahneman might also be Cooper. Of course they did. But what you don't realize is that they could have figured that out pretty quick once they had him behind bars for a dozen years. In fact, they probably wrote him off for the Cooper case within a few weeks after he surrendered. Which means they know something YOU don't know about him. 

Cossey was the only source for the sage green NB6/8 chute description,, that is the point, he was wrong. Hayden never ID'd the missing chute as an NB6/8.. but you claim it was. So, your argument is null and void.

That was the entire point,, Cooper did not use that NB6/8 described by Cossey. He used a Pioneer from Hayden.. You were confused and still are.

Cossey's NB6/8 false claim is the center of the parachute vortex... it undermined the entire case. They were looking for the wrong chute and IT WAS NOT THE AMBOY CHUTE. Delete your articles.

We know what happened to the other chutes, repeating that is irrelevant.

Now, you claim Flo almost Id'd KC but then you claim witness descriptions are unreliable.

Jarvis never said KC was Cooper and whatever he did it was just an opinion. Without Jarvis backing it up it isn't evidence at all. You don't know his reasons for anything.

How do you know all the FBI had was Lyle,, that is an assumption. They could have had lots to investigate. Your argument is essentially that the FBI couldn't investigate KC but years later you could. Nonsense.

It isn't so much that you make up things whole, but you elevate irrelevant things and over represent their relevance while suppressing contrary facts. Classic confirmation bias.

Your arguments conflict themselves. Anything that supports your KC narrative you accept and anything that rejects it you dismiss..  follow the evidence not your conclusion.

You claim KC matches the sketch A but claim sketches are unreliable.

You claim witness descriptions are not reliable because KC does not match. If he did you'd be screaming it.

You claim you have witnesses but those are unsubstantiated peripheral opinions 40 years later.

 

So, if you eliminate sketches and witness descriptions then almost anyone can be made to fit Cooper. 

 

I have thousands of pieces of info Hahneman and have not found anything to eliminate him. I found a reason for the FBI to eliminate him but it was 100% FALSE. I have zero interest in sharing any of it with you.. I have no problem if you reject him with virtually no knowledge, you are not a serious thinker.  You can't even get the chute issue right without screwing it all up.

If I had evidence, not assumptions to reject Hahneman I would.

Conversely, there is evidence that rejects KC and no supporting evidence.

You need to admit what everyone with good case knowledge knows, KC was not Cooper,,

Ulis manned up because of the evidence.. knowledgable people did not accept Sheridan.. 

 

Now it is your turn. It is over Blevins. Kenneth Christiansen was not Cooper, there is no case for him.

 

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1 hour ago, Coopericane said:

I think this is a little disingenuous to say in context. The Cooper case is an outlier compared to your standard case where witness descriptions are involved and relied upon, he wasn't seen in a brief flash during an attack or something, he was observed up-close by the flight attendants and passengers, some even spent hours with him (Tina) and others took physical notes on his appearance (Flo).

You're wasting your time. This his been explained to him over and over. He refuses to accept it.

He also weighs the descriptions from all passengers as equally as those of the flight attendants. Why? So he can say the descriptions are all over the place. When your suspect does not fit the description, you have to discredit the description.

Edited by ParrotheadVol

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1 hour ago, RobertMBlevins said:

FBI agent John Jarvis indicated to three witnesses in August 2016 that yes...Christiansen was the hijacker...the FBI knew that...and then knew Christiansen was dead...and that's why the case was closed. You should ask him about this. You seem to have better access to the FBI than anyone else I know. 

So, how do you suppose that the FBI finally figured out it was Christiansen? They obviously didn't reach out to any of your "witnesses". Otherwise you'd have been posting about that relentlessly, just like you do about the campouts. Lyle would have certainly told you if they came to him. As you pointed out, too late to get records from NWA. So, if they know it was Christiansen, how did they figure it out?

(((The answer is pretty simple: They didn't))).

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38 minutes ago, ParrotheadVol said:

You're wasting your time. This his been explained to him over and over. He refuses to accept it.

He also weighs the descriptions from all passengers as equally as those of the flight attendants. Why? So he can say the descriptions are all over the place. When your suspect does not fit the description, you have to discredit the description.

I know,,

WE are exposing his hypocrisy and poor case knowledge to everyone else.

Edited by FLYJACK

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36 minutes ago, ParrotheadVol said:

So, how do you suppose that the FBI finally figured out it was Christiansen? They obviously didn't reach out to any of your "witnesses". Otherwise you'd have been posting about that relentlessly, just like you do about the campouts. Lyle would have certainly told you if they came to him. As you pointed out, too late to get records from NWA. So, if they know it was Christiansen, how did they figure it out?

(((The answer is pretty simple: They didn't))).

Good point..

I was so busy on the chutes I didn't think of that..

Blevins would say they figured it out from him... The FBI couldn't investigate KC but Blevins did and that is how the FBI knew he was Cooper. The FBI just filed Blevins work and called it solved. No need to investigate special junior agent Blevins has done all the work. It doesn't matter that KC doesn't match the description and there is no evidence..

Edited by FLYJACK

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1 hour ago, Andrade1812 said:

Fly, I remember you were talking about dredge spoils that might have come to the Tena Bar area from near the Lewis River confluence, do you have a source document for that?

That is one of my theories... I am working on.. somebody else asked the same question, I have several reports that mention moving dredge material upstream for various projects but aren't very specific, those reports are in a folder of hundreds of reports. I looked and couldn't find which ones it was in.. I'll look again but it might take some time, there were several reports buried somewhere in my computer..

I recall Sauvie Island shoreline and there was a dredge operation that moved material and dumped it in the middle of the Columbia.. my impression was that material was moved all over.

I didn't find anything that indicated a specific dump on TBAR.

But, I recently found this.. part 9 page 206

dredge9.jpg.242b5e316d4f4782e5a2e3ddfcc77852.jpg

 

Edited by FLYJACK

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Question...

I have heard for years that Cooper had a sloped forehead near the hairline, but I can't find the source..

Is it legit or another Cooper myth???

 

Does anybody have a source, I searched the FBI files and couldn't find anything.

 

Also for bonus points, the scar on the left hand rumour tracked back to Jo Weber, any other legit sources??

 

Edited by FLYJACK

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4 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

There it is,,

The FBI solved the Cooper case based on junior super secret agent Blevins KC report. They kept it quiet and closed the case.. probably too embarrassed having Blevins solve the case.

That is the epitome of confirmation bias...

And oddly enough, they only needed to talk to ol' Bernie and get a confession. Of course, Bernie is dead now so he can neither confirm or deny this. Also, if a confession was all it took to solve this case, it would have been solved long ago. 

Interestingly, the FBI looked into dead suspects prior and had no problem making it public (Remember LD, their "most promising" suspect). But once they figure out it's Kenny, they decide to keep it quiet??

 

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52 minutes ago, ParrotheadVol said:

Speaking of solving the Cooper case, anyone have any idea when Dan Gryder is going to drop his solution?

I thought it was coming the 24th, but haven't seen anything yet. I'm interested hear what he has.

He bumped it to early December..

Looks like his Cooper reproduction jump was just South of the Columbia..

 

Edited by FLYJACK

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On 9/3/2021 at 2:37 PM, FLYJACK said:

So far, I have identified 80 TBAR bills from many sources.. including the top bills from 11 of the 12 Ingram stacks. (remember they kept 4 bills and handed them over later so the top ones may not be the actual top ones)

B09090997B 1963 A TBAR
C13871652A 1963 A TBAR
D27112759A 1969 TBAR
E41933578A 1969 TBAR
E61102414A 1963 A TBAR
E65330757A 1963 A TBAR
F07553334A 1969 TBAR
G00061029B 1969 TBAR
G03072381B 1969 TBAR Kept by Ingrams later turned in
G21056376B 1963 A TBAR
G45632911B 1963 A TBAR
G54783796B 1963 A TBAR
I03006119A 1969 TBAR
I03389775A 1963 A TBAR
I06638737A 1969 TBAR
J09534759A 1969 TBAR
J12657135A 1969 TBAR
J16396253A 1969 TBAR
J20209868A 1963 A TBAR
K03654750A 1969 TBAR
L01781113A 1969 TBAR
L01842041A 1969 TBAR
L02882111B 1963 A TBAR
L03160387B 1963 A TBAR
L03166965B 1963 A TBAR
L04461895* 1963 A TBAR
L06832736A 1969 TBAR
L10919321A 1969 TBAR Kept by Ingrams later turned in
L12650395A 1969 TBAR
L12907861A 1969 TBAR
L19629118B 1963 A TBAR
L20210452A 1969 TBAR
L20211452B 1963 A TBAR
L20301456A 1969 TBAR
L29575638A 1969 TBAR
L29859540B 1963 A TBAR
L30008289A 1969 TBAR
L32700814A 1969 TBAR
L32987392A 1969 TBAR Kept by Ingrams later turned in
L34047759A 1969 TBAR
L34212082A 1969 TBAR
L34403254A 1969 TBAR
L34458940A 1969 TBAR
L34589413A 1969 TBAR
L34628654A 1969 TBAR
L34641262A 1969 TBAR
L36246726A 1969 TBAR
L36692532A 1963 A TBAR
L38138140A 1969 TBAR
L38513685A 1969 TBAR
L43214579A 1969 TBAR
L47621840A 1969 TBAR
L48603996A 1969 TBAR
L48628301A 1969 TBAR
L49839325B 1963 A TBAR
L51079019B 1963 A TBAR
L51236377B 1963 A TBAR
L51303841A 1969 TBAR
L55066857A 1969 TBAR Kept by Ingrams later turned in
L57110577A 1969 TBAR
L66606663B 1963 A TBAR
L68886415B 1963 A TBAR
L69210458B 1963 A TBAR
L72525838B 1963 A TBAR
L72738527B 1963 A TBAR
L73000558B 1963 A TBAR
L75500928B 1963 A TBAR
L86567062A 1969 TBAR

 
 
 
11 OF THE 12 STACKS TOP BILL

H27412938A 1963 A TBAR TOP BILL OF 12
I02442844A 1969 TBAR TOP BILL OF 12
I02591811A 1969 TBAR TOP BILL OF 12
L09781412A 1969 TBAR TOP BILL OF 12
L20452751A 1969 TBAR TOP BILL OF 12
L20848242A 1969 TBAR TOP BILL OF 12
L30706882B 1963 A TBAR TOP BILL OF 12
L35399523B 1963 A TBAR TOP BILL OF 12
L53307222A 1969 TBAR TOP BILL OF 12
L55376548B 1963 A TBAR TOP BILL OF 12
L55479078B 1963 A TBAR TOP BILL OF 12
 
 
FRAGMENT FOUND ON TOP 

E06379503* 1963 A TBAR TOP BILL OF 12 FRAGMENT
 
 
 
 
.

Found another Cooper bill, Himmelsbach had this one. A particularly nice one.

Snow can steal this one as for his list well then insult me.

L38673217 A 1969

HimmsTBARbill.jpeg.10bfe930a3d52b909f58f71c2b6ea346.jpeg

 

 

 

Edited by FLYJACK

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6 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

Question...

I have heard for years that Cooper had a sloped forehead near the hairline, but I can't find the source..

Is it legit or another Cooper myth???

 

Does anybody have a source, I searched the FBI files and couldn't find anything.

 

Also for bonus points, the scar on the left hand rumour tracked back to Jo Weber, any other legit sources??

 

Well, the sloped/slanted forehead tracks back to Jo Weber as well... unbelievable

 

Edited by FLYJACK
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Fly. The only place I’ve heard of the scar is from Gunther’s book. Is it somewhere else? Jo liked Gunther a lot and supposedly talked to him a lot. If she got it from him, then that’s where it started. He published in 1985. I’ve asked around and I don’t think anyone else has been able to come up with info on the scar. 

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2 hours ago, ParrotheadVol said:

Let me venture a guess here...Duane had a sloped/slanted forehead as well as the scar?

BINGO...

Outside of Jo Weber I can't confirm the scar on the hand or the slanted/sloped forehead.

She did have contact with agents and got some info that way, perhaps the store break in, she also made up a lot of stuff.

Gray's book mentions the "sloped forehead" but no source..

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35 minutes ago, RobertMBlevins said:

Do not presume to put words in my mouth. I did not say that.

I gave a possible scenario on why the FBI decided to close the case just one year after we submitted all the files. Files they told us at AB they WANTED to see. (I asked them. Unlike you, we dealt with them as (wait for it now) 'real people with real identities') I know that's a tricky concept. Dealing with people and organizations on the internet, by phone, or by email using your real identity. B)

But it gets pretty good results. 

For everyone else: I am NOT Jo Weber, and neither was Skipp Porteous. 

You do have one point solidly. I will probably never be able to prove that is what happened unless the FBI admits that is what happened. It is one of the reasons I stopped our active investigation into Christiansen and Geestman. I figured we had done what we could and unless something new came up, there was no point in taking it any further. But Parrothead asked what we thought might have happened to motivate the FBI to close the case, and I gave it my best shot. 

And unlike Jo Weber, I don't claim I am 100% sure on Christiansen and Geestman. I cannot say that.

Do I suspect they were guilty as sin? Not just yeah, but HELL yeah. Will I be able to prove it beyond a reasonable doubt? Not without some coop from the FBI. No way. 

 

Right, you didn't say it, you just gave a possible scenario.. and what you HELL yeah believe. So, you did say it. But yet you deny it,,, very clever psychological ninja game you play special junior agent,, very clever.

I have communicated with the FBI. Promise.

And I am a real person, I asked my wife and she said yes.. So there,

 

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13 hours ago, RobertMBlevins said:

Of course I said that. I quoted it again to make sure you and others understand. There is no ninja stuff. It's pretty straight up. I don't care whether you go public or not. But there are credibility issues when you don't. Not serious ones, but they exist. You also keep claiming you have communicated with the FBI, and yet you have not presented one single shred of evidence you actually did, and that they answered you. So we just have your word on that. And this is where (again) anonymity comes into play regarding credibility. No one could check your word even if they wanted to. 

And yes...after all that has happened both Skipp and I believed we were on the right track with Christiansen and Geestman. I know you don't like hearing that, and you don't appreciate it, but you (like others in Cooperland) ALSO have a bias or two. And this is what they are:

  • If the case were actually solved, no one in Cooperland would have anything further to discuss. And if the solution turned out to be what Porteous and I suspected, then many of those in Cooperland would be left with egg hanging from their faces. So...it is natural that you should come after our investigation in every way possible. I actually understand your motivation here. 
     
  • Anyone else with a suspect out there they are investigating (like YOU for example) would realize their work had all been for nothing. That is a hard thing to accept, and I can understand resisting a possibility like that as well. 
     
  • But it is a level playing field. There is no getting around that. In other words, if you are able to prove Hahneman was the guy, or someone, somewhere, is able to prove another suspect (other than KC and Geestman) were guilty...then the same things would also apply to me. 

The difference between me and you and a few other people is that I accept the reality of this situation, and some others will pull out every stop, do every attack, whatever they can...to stay in denial about this possibility. 

You said it, then denied it, then confirmed it... reminds me of the Marxist professors I had in University.. they play that ninja mind trick all the time.. so you have no idea what their position really is and since they have taken both sides, some more than once they never lose an argument.. The matrix inside a matrix..

I don't have a KC suspect bias.. I knew the evidence eliminated KC before I ever looked into Hahneman. You got that wrong.

I wish the case were solved 100%, that is to say putting a suspect on the plane, that is what I have been trying to do but it probably requires new DNA,, maybe Eric can get the tie to Tom.. but it will cost money to test and may still be contaminated or inconclusive. As it is there is very little new to discuss publicly at a high level, so you are wrong there as well. I have thousands of pieces of info that I could discuss for a hundred years but choose not to. My motivation is not social or discussions but to solve this thing.

 

The difference is, you fail to accept the universal reality, and claim your reality is true. It is only your perception, there are universal truths backed by evidence, reason and logic. To maintain your reality you ignore and reject universal truths and exaggerate and elevate supporting information. You engage in extreme confirmation bias. Most people cannot see and compensate for their own bias. Some are just better at suppressing bias than others, even professional investigators can be sucked in by bias.

Eric did the same thing with Sheridan, when I pointed out contradictory evidence he attacked the messenger calling me a troll and a liar.. but he has finally realized to his credit that he was wrong about Sheridan. 

You're bias has done the same,, KC was not Cooper and you attack the messenger.. not the facts.

The Forrest Fenn crowd is doing the same thing with Cooper.. they claim to be very careful about confirmation bias then proceed with it full speed ahead..

They claim Fenn faked smoking.

They claim he wore contacts.

They claim he darkened his complexion.

They claim he disguised his accent.

They claim he needed money and became a sky-pirate.

They claim he had a grudge against the Gov so he took their money,, oops it wasn't the Gov money.

I think they know better but are trying to build a new following as the Forrest Fenn world has ended. Like a black hole they are co-opting and consuming the Cooperverse.. to expand a collapsing base. I am sure they are working on some way to monetize it, a Cooper-Fenn treasure hunt with baubles, t-shirts, hats or a board game.. a sucker born every minute. HAHAHA..

 

The problem with the Cooper case is that there are actually very few hard facts.. really,, and that means people can twist and contort virtually any suspect to fit by claiming what is "possible". Intellectually, anything is possible.. but if that is your standard then almost anyone can be Cooper and that is the dangerous lure of the Vortex, it turns your mind inside out, distorts realty, it is the ultimate intellectual puzzle and test of reason where most of the pieces are missing and many don't even belong..  it exposes mediocre thinking. You can enter but you can never leave,, at least not intact.

I have put together a checklist of Cooper facts and a profile mostly based on the one in the FBI files, if you run these prominent suspects against that list they are all very weak or rejected. Some suspects don't have enough info. 

 

If part time junior super secret agent Blevins was intellectually honest with himself he would admit KC was not Cooper just as Eric has with Sheridan.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by FLYJACK
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3 hours ago, Andrade1812 said:

Do we have a log of the available flights out of PDX that a Cooper suspect *could* have taken out of the area after the hijacking?

In particular, flights to Salt Lake City or Vegas.

Apropos nothing in particular...

A partial flight schedule out of Portland may be listed on Shutter's site.

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1 hour ago, RobertMBlevins said:

Yeah. Well...let us all know when you intend to be just PLAIN HONEST with yourself and start proving those things (especially a military history) on Fred Hahneman. Maybe you should drop by my office in Yakima and stick your nose into that highboy drawer and start looking at the files we have on our KC investigation. Then I will turn you loose on the computer to see the online stuff. You will not only be busy for weeks, but you might get a realistic idea of how we did all that.  

I am not Eric Ulis. Neither am I Jo Weber. Or even Carl Laurin, the guy who tried to forge off a KGB identity card on people and tell everyone his suspect worked for them. And it wasn't even a GOOD forgery. (*laughs*)

Don't come to me as Mr Anonymous From Canada and try to tell me my business. Especially when you haven't proven a thing yet...NOT ONE THING...regarding associating Fred Hahneman with the Cooper hijacking. Who knows? Maybe he did do it?

But so far you have presented zip except for a vague reference in the FBI's wanted poster. Nothing else. Nada, negatory, not happening, and not today. B)

 

Exactly as I said,, attack the messenger,, Hahneman has nothing to do with KC not being Cooper, he is irrelevant.

The evidence shows KC is not Cooper. You have constructed a narrative to fit your own bias and to do that you ignore, reject and spin the evidence. Not the wanted poster, that is your attempt to discredit the evidence.

Kenneth Christiansen was not Cooper, nobody should waste their time or money on him..

 

Edited by FLYJACK

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