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DB Cooper

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26 minutes ago, Andrade1812 said:

Fly,

I'm prepping for Cooper Con, and this question relates specifically to survivability and not suspect discussions, what level of parachuting experience did Hahneman have?

He was on an aircrew in WW2, also in Korea and Vietnam but I can't get those records. Claimed to be paratrooper in Vietnam but I have never been able to confirm it.. He was a radio guy.

He ordered six chutes, front chest chutes and backpacks (like Cooper) from Andrews AFB.

He was identified by somebody in Honduras for the $25k reward, FBI won't confirm but it is believed to have been a relative, a cousin. He felt the heat and feared for his life once he was identified, friends and family convinced him to turn himself in. He volunteered to be taken back to the US. Since, he also had Honduran citizenship he didn't have to and there was no extradition at that time. He could have stayed. The money was hidden in Honduras but finally recovered a year later via a prison informant.

 

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11 hours ago, mrshutter45 said:

he didn't need two back chutes and really couldn't use either front chute to work properly, no D rings.

 

This being the case, I've never understood the argument that Cooper was a novice because he opened up the only good front chute he had. If he couldn't use either, then he really didn't have a good one at all. Right?

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On 11/14/2021 at 4:04 PM, RobertMBlevins said:

None of you are really in a position to judge one way or another because ALL of you have an axe to grind in the Cooper case. All of you are heavily vested in it. Forums, suspects, whatever. This makes your point of view slanted at best. 

Not me. I'm not vested at all. I want the case to be solved and I don't care who the perp is, I just want to know.

I've never thought Kenny resembled either of the sketches at all.

The words "Kenny Christiansen" never came out of John Jarvis' mouth. This comes from your own article.

Edited by ParrotheadVol

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 If you guys were smart, you would support BOTH those events with every fiber of your being before you are down to nothing. The Ariel Store party is long gone.

Robert, you are the one with the lower attendance. The Ariel store can't be replaced. it was a well established hot spot for DB Cooper. you are not accepted by many whether you like it or not. it has nothing to do with Cooper and has everything to do with your personality and actions. if people don't like you they will not support you, period. you keep begging for a connection of events. Eric doesn't say a word about you and you crap all over his events and then whine they he doesn't support you? nobody suffers excluding you, except you, Robert. 

Also, you might want to stop claiming sketches can be off and then proudly post Kenny's picture next to a Cooper sketch as proof he could be Cooper? 

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9 hours ago, RobertMBlevins said:

It is extremely doubtful that Hahneman was a member of a flight crew doing missions. During WW2, the vast majority of enlisted personnel who were trained in radar systems operation and maintenance for the Army Air Corps (later, Air Force) were ground crew. Airborne radar WAS used by the Air Corps during the war, but it was limited for a number of reasons. Most radar systems used by the Army Air Corps in WW2 were ground-based. And anyone who was actually a member of an air crew, and if they WERE responsible for airborne radar would have been an officer. 

The FBI said he served on an aircrew in WW2, a navigator. Later, he was a radio/radar electronics engineer... His records were destroyed in the 1973 fire.

The FBI claimed he also served in Korea and Vietnam but I can't find those records yet. He also worked as a contractor for Military, NASA, USAID and CIA linked companies all over the world.. he also had high level security clearances.

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8 hours ago, ParrotheadVol said:

This being the case, I've never understood the argument that Cooper was a novice because he opened up the only good front chute he had. If he couldn't use either, then he really didn't have a good one at all. Right?

Exactly, it is a weak assumption to back up a weak argument.

He couldn't really use either front chute. You can tie on without D rings but it is inconvenient and sketchy.

Cooper had jump experience, certainly military.

The dummy was unique in that it was not sealed and had no packing card, it is a reasonable assumption that was why it was tossed whole. If he had opened it to use part of it pieces would have been left on the plane.

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2 hours ago, mrshutter45 said:

Also, you might want to stop claiming sketches can be off and then proudly post Kenny's picture next to a Cooper sketch as proof he could be Cooper? 

Yup, KC does resemble Sketch A but not the most accurate Sketch B... (FBI)

Blevins never acknowledges this.. instead he claims sketches are unreliable.. 

My fav is KC is not Latin/Mex swarthy olive,, Blevins; he had a tan in November and witnesses were inconsistent. 

or it wasn't Cooper's tie... 

Blevins just makes it up.

 

So, if we toss the sketch, toss witnesses, toss the tie then almost anyone can be Cooper.

 

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My view on the chutes based on assessment of all the info.. this may not be exact but close.

 

Cooper requested 2 front and 2 back chutes.

Himmelsbach claimed he requested them from McChord.

McChord either didn't have them or rejected the request.

Cossey was contacted at home and forwarded the request to Emerick at Issaquah Skysports.

Cossey believed the 2 fronts and 2 backs to used were his from Issaquah.

Hayden was also contacted and agreed to send in two back chutes. He claimed the chutes were the same but never saw the canopies.

Emerick was informed they now only needed the two fronts.

He grabbed 2 fronts, a good one and a dummy chute.

(speculation is that he intentionally grabbed the unsealed dummy)

Hayden's back chute SN 226 and the other SN 60-9707 with the two front chutes from Issaquah were sent to the plane. Both backs packed by Cossey May 21,1971.

Early on both back chutes were described as having burp sacks, that is consistent with Hayden's chutes not Cossey's.

Cooper was told (incorrectly) by the crew the chutes were coming from McChord.

In Reno, the dummy was missing, the good front was cut apart and back chute SN 226 was found intact with the SN 60-9707 packing card. Chute SN 226 found on the plane was returned to Hayden in 1975.

Cooper used SN 60-9707 Pioneer back chute but had left the packing card behind.

Cossey was contacted and told a Pioneer back chute was left in the plane. Cossey incorrectly assumed the one Cooper took was his modified NB6/8 from Issaquah. There is no corroboration for Cossey's description.

Cossey learned that the back chutes came from Hayden but never corrected his error.

Cossey never supplied the serial numbers for the chutes he packed for Hayden. He claimed that he gave all his records to the FBI. He did not.

Over the years Cossey told various lies to cover for his initial error, even claiming his chutes were used and one was returned to him.

The FBI relying on Cossey and his (incorrect) back chute description falsely eliminated many chutes found over the years.

The Cooper chute SN 60-9707 may have been found already.

 

 

Edited by FLYJACK
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1 hour ago, RobertMBlevins said:

I don't just make up stuff, by the way. 

You cannot continue to keep embellishing his military and job history without providing something to back that up.  

You are making stuff up, I didn't embellish anything and I don't have to back it up for you.

You are under the mistaken belief that I owe you something.

I don't need to sell Hahneman, you needed to sell KC because he wasn't Cooper.

Edited by FLYJACK

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58 minutes ago, RobertMBlevins said:

You don't owe me a thing. But you have a boatload of nerve coming at me with 'KC wasn't Cooper' when you can't even provide a minuscule bit of proof regarding your military service claims on Hahneman. You have put him in at least two wars, possibly even Vietnam as a third, and claimed he worked with/for NASA, the CIA, and some other agencies. No...you do not owe me anything. But you DO owe every other Cooper fan an explanation, as well as the people who read your many posts. 

Unless you can prove ANY of this...I am calling baloney on it whether you like it or not. Personally, I think your claims on Hahneman's military service are a load of horseshit, to be frank about it. 

The FBI claimed he was on an aircrew in WW2, and in Korea and Vietnam.. I confirmed WW2 and his records were lost in the fire.. Like I said,, I can't get Korea and Vietnam records but I have confirmed he was in Vietnam for many years, I just can't confirm exactly what he was doing there. That is what I have been working on.. it looks like a combination of military and contractor.. I found a Vietnam image that is a 99% match for him but I can't be 100% sure.. If I told you what he was doing you would blow a gasket... There is no baloney..

You seem upset.

and I have thousands of pieces of information,, I don't owe it to anybody...

Edited by FLYJACK

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22 minutes ago, RobertMBlevins said:

You really can't confirm much, can you? You have also made some pretty far-fetched claims that go against the public record. Yeah...I know he was in WW2 as well. But you have gone beyond that one by miles. 

 

No that would be false,, it isn't my claim, it came from the FBI. That is a FACT. A term you seem to be unfamiliar with.

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1 hour ago, RobertMBlevins said:

What came from the FBI? I don't see them making posts here about Hahneman. If you are going to credit them with saying Fred H was in WW2...that much is already known. But you have been claiming he was in Korea as well, and did contract work for NASA and the CIA. 

If you have such proof of such work by FBI records, maybe you should produce at least a smidgen of it. Otherwise, no one will believe you. 

You see you can't read,, I said the FBI claimed he was also in Vietnam and Korea... I could not independently confirm his military records other than WW2, but I can confirm he was in Vietnam for many years. I am still trying to track his activities in Vietnam.. He was there, I just don't have a full picture of what he did there. His mother even said his experience there changed him..

So, you are making false claims AGAIN about what I said. What I said is 100% accurate.

I did find that he worked for many CIA contractors and backed companies including during the Guatemalan coup, USAID (CIA) and on a NASA contract. It is possible that he was sheep dipped.. that is really difficult to figure out.. He was all over the world... in crazy places during crazy incidents. None of that has anything to do with Cooper.

Many contractors worked for the CIA... that isn't a big deal.

And I don't really care if anyone believes me,, why should I?

 

Have you actually ever solved a case?

 

Edited by FLYJACK

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8 hours ago, RobertMBlevins said:

You keep coming back to "The FBI told you...'

I have done this occasionally. That is, quoted the FBI, especially the Seattle FBI. 

But...when I did that I gave a name and exactly what they said. I gave the name of the agent in case people decided to check it out. I didn't just tell folks "The FBI told me..." and expect them to say, "That's great, Robert. Tell us more. We totally believe you."

Your claims are UNSOURCED. And as such, are completely worthless. 

 

I stated the facts. "Worthless" is subjective. You seem to be calling me a liar with no facts to back it up.

I wasn't using the FBI's claim as evidence of anything. 

The FBI claimed he was in WW2, Korea and Vietnam.. that is vague.. I tried to independently confirm that but I can't get Korea and Vietnam military records. However, there is corroboration that he was in Vietnam for many years.

The FBI actually stated when he returned from Vietnam..

What I can't confirm is what he was doing there throughout all the years he was there.

One source says he was a pilot in Vietnam.. one says Vietnam vet, one says Vietnam and Cambodia, another says "paratrooper".. they may have meant parachuted.. and not in the Airborne Division. He was an electronics engineer.

I did find a pic I believe (99% sure) is him in Vietnam...

There is some info I am still trying to obtain that might give me more details..

 

There is no doubt he was in Vietnam, the question is what exactly was he doing while he was there.

 

 

Edited by FLYJACK

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1 hour ago, RobertMBlevins said:

You continue to make claims without providing a source. No one's calling you a liar. But if you were a reporter for a newspaper and doing a story, the editor would tell you all claimed facts need to be SOURCED. Just saying the FBI told you without a single bit of evidence, a picture, a document, a name, etc is worthless.

You HAVE read the book All The President's Men, right? Or at least seen the movie? That is how it works. 

When I said that a senior FBI agent indicated to three witnesses in August 2016 that the REAL reason the FBI dropped the case was because they knew Cooper was Kenny Christiansen...and the reason being Christiansen was dead anyway...I named the people involved, the FBI agent himself, and even the date and place where all this happened. I still have all the emails about this, and my extensive notes from the phone calls. 

You make big claims yet provide nothing to back any of it up. Nothing. 

I am not a newspaper reporter... so your premise is heretofore rejected.

and I wasn't making an argument.... lots of guys were in Vietnam.

 

what is the big deal..

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So...I emailed the staff at the Portland Yacht Club and asked them to tell Eric Ulis to instruct his speakers that if anyone was going to make filthy, unsupported allegations like that without offering proof, or at least a single witness...that I would hold the Yacht Club staff responsible for that. They were just supposed to tell Eric this stuff. 

Instead...without even replying to my email...they went to these posts

 

LIAR, You first told this board and other sites " They responded and were disgusted” at the comments and that's the reason they canceled Eric's event not even realizing you stated they never contacted you so you had no idea why they cancelled the event. you keep forgetting to include the threat of a law suit to the country club if any liable was said against Kenny. the threat of a law suit is enough for a business to not want to get involved with what ever the subject might be. 

You can't control what is said about Kenny, you don't own him and the only grounds you would have for a law suit would be things related to your book. plus, no liable on the dead. YOUR actions got the event closed, PERIOD. the email was very specific about holding them responsible, there was no "asking" of anything. the only link you provided was to my site and not The Mountain News nor did you provided any other info, you wrote that you would provided screenshots if requested. multiple LIES once again. 

Quote

we will immediately file suit against the Portland Yacht Club for personal damages

 If you would like copies of some of the screenshots taken from The DB Cooper Forum and elsewhere to see the truth for yourself, feel free to ask and we will provide them to you.

You have to LIE to try and defend yourself over what you did. the proof is clear as a bell. 

Edited by mrshutter45

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8 hours ago, RobertMBlevins said:

The 'big deal' is that you are investigating a suspect whom you believe to be DB Cooper...

And at the same time rejecting other suspects without really being specific...

While at the same time making claim after claim about YOUR suspect...

Without offering the slightest shred of evidence or confirmation on practically everything you have claimed about your suspect. 

I never said I was 100% without-a-doubt Kenny was Cooper. But at least I offered up SOME support for the idea. An extensive report released publicly. No holding back on names, dates, places, PEOPLE. If you are going to continue to point to Hahneman as The Guy Who Got Away With It...maybe it's time you showed people how and why you are coming to that conclusion instead of just saying stuff like 'The FBI told me'. 

The only reason you aren't getting hammered on this by everyone else who reads this thread is because they hate ME more than they resent your claims made without any proof. ^_^ Not because they actually believe you. You have been promoting Hahneman as The Guy for quite a while now, and except for you jumping onto a possible Latin/Hispanic reference on the wanted poster...you have offered up absolutely zip regarding Hahneman. Maybe it's time you did. Trust me, it won't 'ruin' your investigation and people might start having more respect for you. 

You are just wrong..

KC and many other suspects do not match the case evidence. I don't reject them, the evidence does.

I have thousands of pieces of information,, no way I am going through all that on a forum. I am not defending a book or an article or anything. I am stating facts, if you can go find actual evidence to challenge that go ahead. You haven't, you just call me a liar because I don't post all my research. I don't care. Marty asked about his parachute experience and I answered with the facts I know.

And I was hammered by people early on so I decided to post very little on Hahneman and not reveal my research. I was getting bogged down in explaining things.. I am researching this for myself not for everyone else. I realized that there is no way I can post all the information in an appropriate way so that others can properly assess it. People were also assessing suspects based on the advocate not the evidense, I don't agree with that. So, I focussed on non-suspect specific case evidence.. and avoided the Hahneman details.

The difference is you need to SELL KC as suspect because there is no case there,, I don't need to sell a suspect and I sure as hell don't want to.

 

Edited by FLYJACK

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The bump vs oscillation,,, 

I have an interview with Ratazcak and he explains it like this..

The pressure gauge is used for the crew to regulate the rate of climb or descent in the cabin to make it more comfortable. They were unpressurized and when that gauge goes to the extreme a light goes on and you feel a significant bump in your ears like a car door window opening at 70 mph on the highway. He said on the radio "I think our friend just took leave of us.... mark it on your radar screen" 

The evidence indicates they were getting minor bumps and oscillation for some time but suddenly the gauge reacted violently aka oscillations and the extreme oscillation was also felt as the "pressure bump". So, the pressure bump was an oscillation, an extreme one and the final one of a brief series. This is occurring in seconds not minutes.

When the FBI did their analysis they had the crew with fresh memories and communications that we don't have. We don't have the time Rataczak said "I think our friend just took leave of us".

Logically,, all pressure bumps felt in the ears are gauge oscillations but not all gauge oscillations are pressure bumps felt in the ears.

To claim they were completely distinct events is false.

The timing was analyzed through various comms and the FDR and it was from 8:09 for the FDR up to 8:12, these times were rounded and not synchronized to each other the time they settled on based on all inputs was 8:11 but that can be + or - a minute or two.

Further, the crew stated they were in the suburbs of Portland, if they were virtually over the Portland airport they would have known it,, I would argue that would have known if they had passed the Battleground VORTAC.

The other issue is.. was the "pressure bump/oscillation" caused by the hijacker or by him going down the stairs. Solderlind made that point before the sled test. That purpose of that test was to solve that issue.

Soderlind stated that the pressure bump oscillation was either caused by the hijacker going down the stairs or the hijacker leaving the plane,, before the sled test.

The test showed no significant pressure change when a man went down the stairs, they also had gauges setup in the passenger section. I don't where the sensor is for the cockpit gauge. Also, they dropped two sleds, the first was inadvertently dropped with somebody on the stairs. The second one caused a reaction exactly the same as was experienced on NORJAK. 

Soderlind revised his LZ using all the data. It runs from about the Lewis R to about Battleground.

 

Gauge reacted violently,, (Rataczak.. extreme oscillation = pressure bump)

osc1.jpeg.fd54bac360af59fefd6a286da056dde9.jpeg

 

Co-pilot recorded..

osc2.jpeg.9e3a745c1840768f1f73560862f54a59.jpeg

 

Soderlind before sled test,, bump/oscillation caused by UNSUB going down stairs or leaving

osc4.jpg.9a12fbbb9ea106b388344c8c39a9facd.jpg

 

All three crew members felt the bump in their ears.

osc5.jpg.6a36d779ee055dbb824728d98207ed96.jpg

 

During test, stairs lowered by hydraulics and dropped to only about 20 degrees, were stable. With a person walking down and standing on them no drag and no indication on pressure gauge.

osc6.jpg.8ccaaa8b04461ace0b6df64adccc6b74.jpg

 

At the moment the sled left the crew had the same experience in their ears as NORJAK and the cabin pressure gauge reacted violently. The stairs were compressed to nearly full extension..

osc7.jpg.d7ff28627eae12a6a9e357cda73a8f3e.jpg

 

 

 

 

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19 minutes ago, Andrade1812 said:

Hey Fly,

Hate to bug you again, but I'm gearing up for the Con. Can you post that picture from the ground search HQ where the FBI flight path map can be seen in the background?

My cropped image with yellow map.

1201714345_flightpathmapwallcopy.jpeg.3bd2b872c808cbb2865054475aa3a800.jpeg

 

original image

1024364868_Slide08_164018copy.jpg.cec531d5bb54a959b9b538bc683beeee.jpg

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It looks like we have some more information about that D. B. Cooper movie that the Rolling Stone article with Tina Mucklow revealed near the start of the year. https://deadline.com/2021/11/nod-if-you-understand-amber-sealey-to-direct-thriller-on-db-cooper-hijacking-1234876249/ Both Tina and Bill are consulting it seems.

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16 hours ago, Coopericane said:

It looks like we have some more information about that D. B. Cooper movie that the Rolling Stone article with Tina Mucklow revealed near the start of the year. https://deadline.com/2021/11/nod-if-you-understand-amber-sealey-to-direct-thriller-on-db-cooper-hijacking-1234876249/ Both Tina and Bill are consulting it seems.

Well, I'll set my expectations low... "Hollywood" usually tells an over stylized story,, not really the truth..

But, you never know.

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On 11/19/2021 at 2:37 PM, RobertMBlevins said:

The one BIG problem with national media (there haven't been any serious feature films on Cooper to date) and D.B. Cooper is that they can't write the damn ending. So people get disappointed. 

Actually, for someone doing a movie I think that is an advantage. We don't know the true ending, so a movie could take any direction they wanted with the ending. I'd like to see Tarantino tackle Cooper. He tends to re-write history with some of his films anyway. I think Cooper would be right up his alley.

Interesting fact: Tarantino went to the same elementary school that I did as a kid for one year. I think he was a fifth grader and I was in first grade. There was a drive in theater about 3 blocks from where I currently live that his mother used to take him to as a kid. That's when he developed his love for movies. Most of his movies have a Tennessee reference in them and that is the reason why.

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