DB Cooper

[The Cooper Vortex 73]

Our latest episode is out now! DB Cooper’s Jump From the 727 with skydiving expert, pilot, and YouTuber Dan Gryder.
 

Enjoy!

 

[FLYJACK 654]

I don't remember the mention of Cooper smoking with the left hand.. 

Some people switch when they use their dominant hand.

Himmeslbach did note cigarette stains..

https://www.upi.com/Archives/1986/11/22/Folk-hero-to-some-sleazy-rotten-crook-to-others/7021533019600/

"Himmelsbach thinks other clues to Cooper being an ex-convict were the 'atrocious foul language' he used in talking to a stewardess and the way he smoked his cigarettes. Cooper was a heavy smoker and was indifferent to the fact that the smoke curled through his fingers and left nicotine stains, a trait Himmelsbach said is common among prison inmates."

 

but the FBI files say cigarette stains were on Cooper's right hand.

 

[FLYJACK 654]

15 hours ago, The Cooper Vortex said:

Our latest episode is out now! DB Cooper’s Jump From the 727 with skydiving expert, pilot, and YouTuber Dan Gryder.
 

Enjoy!

 

Dan has been saying the same thing for well over a decade.. He solved the case and is about to tell everything. He did a good job of flipping the interview to interrogating Darren then supporting Darren's views... a psychological ninja trick, appearing to be more knowledgable by agreeing with Darren. He is wrong on the airstair bump being the lowering action. The test proved that was not the case and the stairs lowered much earlier. That rookie error makes me think Dan's case knowledge is sketchy.

Disappointed Darren didn't ask his signature question,  "Was the bomb real.."  no, yes, maybe... I don't know man..

He also speculated,, jumpers would do this... or not this.. not true. Some did jump into the black. Cooper may not have jumped where he initially planned.

The thing I agree on is the bar of proof. Only forensics can put a suspect on the plane, DNA is partial and mixed and fingerprints are unconfirmed to be Cooper. This is what I have been stuck on.

It may be the best we can do is a circumstantial argument and that won't be good enough for many people.

If Dan's suspect is one of the common ones already scrutinized then he isn't Cooper.

Dan is really trying to sell it..  some Cooper people are great sellers like Ulis, but a solution doesn't need a salesman.

But we'll see. It will be interesting but I expect it will fall apart on examination.

 

[DFS346 7]

Dan Gryder's fourth YouTube video on DB Cooper ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0RvjJx0WUac

 

[FLYJACK 654]

Dan's teaser from 10 years ago,,,

 

 

[FLYJACK 654]

I'll take a guess here,,

Dan's suspect may be McCoy.. Dan was hinting at a disguise but Darren didn't bite.. Dan also mentioned the fuel trucks, McCoy gave very specific instructions for the fuel trucks. They don't really match Cooper's instructions.

McCoy was not Cooper.

[FLYJACK 654]

More evidence Cooper did not land in the Columbia R.

Crew said they believed Cooper jumped after last contact at 8:05 based on sudden oscillation.

The call (timestamp) was 5 or 10 min later or 8:10 -8:15 that is The Lewis R to Battleground Vortac turn..

They also stated that the call is timestamped and they had not reached Portland yet but were in the suburbs (time of call). If the pilots are accurate, no way Cooper lands in the Columbia R.

 

[ParrotheadVol 70]

On 10/26/2021 at 8:01 PM, FLYJACK said:

I'll take a guess here,,

Dan's suspect may be McCoy.. Dan was hinting at a disguise but Darren didn't bite.. Dan also mentioned the fuel trucks, McCoy gave very specific instructions for the fuel trucks. They don't really match Cooper's instructions.

McCoy was not Cooper.

I've thought for years that McCoy was Dan's suspect. The "simulated gun" that Dan mentioned is what caused me to think McCoy as he used a gun made from dental paste in his prison escape.

If I remember correctly, the two women in the video were bank employees and were basically there because the money in the video was from the bank. It's been a minute, but I believe that was what was said.

[ParrotheadVol 70]

No one is being gullible Robert. I told you who the women in the video are. They were employees of the bank. There may or may not have been armed guards outside of the camera shot, who knows? My guess is that Dan probably knew someone at that bank and made arrangements to have the video shot. I don't think it's that big of a deal. As far as the gun goes, of course it's a pellet gun. I don't think they would let him bring a real gun into the bank. He even said as much when he called it a "simulated gun".

I'll give Dan the same respect that I give anyone that has a suspect or theory. I'll listen with an open mind and make my own decision on whether I believe it or not. Dan seems to me like a pretty smart guy so I'm not going to pass judgement on what he has before I hear it. Hopefully he has something good. 

[FLYJACK 654]

He did delete it,,  

I agree with Parrot.. it sounds like McCoy.

The interview with Darren is full of clues. Dan is clever, he probed Darren's mind with questions before committing to a narrative. Dan brought up Cooper having a disguise (like McCoy) but Darren shut it down so he didn't pursue it. The other clue was the positioning of the fuel trucks, McCoy gave specific instructions for the fuel trucks. The only suspect that we know did that,,, or do we...

McCoy was not Cooper but it is always interesting to hear the argument.

[Andrade1812 51]

I read somewhere that Larry Carr volunteered to be the Cooper case agent, and was expecting to walk in, look at the evidence and prove McCoy was Cooper.

Not only did Carr not do that, he changed his mind to the point where he believes Cooper wasn't any of the known suspects and that Cooper must have died in the jump.

If you read the files, you realize just how much effort was put into investigating McCoy with a null result. McCoy was home at 10am on Thanksgiving day and was probably in Salt Lake city the day of the hijacking. None of the witnesses thought it was McCoy and he didn't fit the description or the FBI profile. The particles on the tie completely eliminate him.

[DFS346 7]

Here's D. B. (sorry, Dan) Gryder's latest video in the D. B. Cooper series:

 

[ParrotheadVol 70]

2 hours ago, RobertMBlevins said:

You figure he will just re-hash the McCoy theory? Richard McCoy was investigated by folks a lot more thoroughly and much better than this Dan guy. He looks like the type that likes to do stunts to get attention. Smoke and mirrors stuff. Maybe he has something of substance, maybe not. 

I honestly don't know. His guy may not even be McCoy. I've been wrong a time or two in the past...

[CooperNWO305 146]

I was looking up aircrew training and came across these pics. 
 

https://nara.getarchive.net/media/two-students-at-the-deep-water-environment-survival-training-school-after-being-365fe1

 

And this discussion on parasailing concepts being used to train in the military. 
 

 

 

 

I believe if Cooper had been an aircrew member in the military that he could have learned about parachutes and harnesses like this. 

[FLYJACK 654]

Cooper had thin lips and a protruding lower lip...

McCoy did not..

Cooper had Latin/Mexican features and characteristics.

McCoy did not.

 

 

[ParrotheadVol 70]

Do you know which witness (or witnesses) mentioned the protruding lower lip?

[FLYJACK 654]

1 hour ago, ParrotheadVol said:

Do you know which witness (or witnesses) mentioned the protruding lower lip?

The stews told Rose, the sketch artist, he said it in the video..

at 3:10

 

[FLYJACK 654]

FBI file #64 is live...  lots of repeats, 

https://vault.fbi.gov/D-B-Cooper%20/d.b.-cooper-part-64-of-64/view

Cossey made the Dummy chute,,, not Sheridan.

 

IMPORTANT.. Cossey examined both chutes left on the plane and he (Cossey) explained that the back chutes came from Hayden. Interview May 31/72

Edited November 1, 2021 by FLYJACK

[FLYJACK 654]

Here we go..  CARDS found in back chute pocket labelled "INPECTION AND PACKING DATA" that matches the Pioneer chute 226 returned to Hayden. Both cards 226 and 60-9707 are listed.. both packed by Cossey May 21/71.

226 was returned to Hayden.. 60-9707 must have been Hayden's other chute, the one used by Cooper.. not the one described by Cossey and the FBI as used by Cooper.

 

Edited November 2, 2021 by FLYJACK

[FLYJACK 654]

Cooper initially demanded aft stairs lowered after takeoff.. during the Reno negotiations they discussed lowered before takeoff.

Cooper's aft stair demand changed when Reno came into play.

 

 

Confirmed by pilot transcript...

Initial demands radioed by pilots... air stairs lowered after takeoff.

Edited November 2, 2021 by FLYJACK

[FLYJACK 654]

The sketch artist Rose talked to the stews together soon after the hijacking..

A protruding lower lip is something very specific observed in profile as Cooper was seen.. it is not like height which is an estimate in a given context.

and it isn't an error of observation.. it is the equivalent of seeing a scar or tattoo.

the FBI files also state "thin lips".

Witnesses were consistent.. Cooper was Latin/Mexican in features and characteristics.. not just complexion.

[FLYJACK 654]

A little more on that East Fork Lewis R parachute..

A woman from Yacolt Wa contacted the "FBI" saying her son found a shredded military chute in the (South) East Fork Lewis River between Lucia Falls and the Heisson bridge Dec 8.1980.. the chute was rejected because it was claimed orange and white. Cossey had claimed the missing back chute canopy was all white, but it appears Cossey got the chute wrong so it might not have been all white.

The chute was found in the dropzone between the 8:11 and 8:12 flightpath time, about 4 miles E of the flightpath half a mile from the Heisson store and the railroad tracks run right along the River to the store. There was an historic flood in Heisson spring 1972.

If there is an area to search..  this is it, the East Fork Lewis River between Heisson bridge and Lucia Falls.

Red line is the rail tracks, blue line is the East Fork River between the Heisson bridge and Lucia falls. Black mark on Left is the flightpath, it has a 1 mile error.

This area "blueline" is 3-5 miles E of the flightpath right about the 8:12 time.

 

 

 

Edited November 2, 2021 by FLYJACK

[Coopericane 44]

A lot about the parachute discoveries in this release. It amazes me just how many they found, probably more than half a dozen but I haven't finished reading the release yet. And it's troubling how they rely on Cossey to rule most of them out... do any of these parachutes seem worth looking into more besides the East Fork Lewis one?

[FLYJACK 654]

8 minutes ago, Coopericane said:

A lot about the parachute discoveries in this release. It amazes me just how many they found, probably more than half a dozen but I haven't finished reading the release yet. And it's troubling how they rely on Cossey to rule most of them out... do any of these parachutes seem worth looking into more besides the East Fork Lewis one?

There are others but no info to go on...

[FLYJACK 654]

5 hours ago, RobertMBlevins said:

Then why didn't any of the witnesses identify Hahneman as the hijacker, after his picture was plastered across newspapers in the US and elsewhere a few months later....

Geoff Gray, who is the only person to date to be given access to the UN-redacted and UN-edited original witness statements taken down by the FBI...says in his book the witnesses were all over the place with their descriptions. One said Cooper was no more than five nine. Another thought he was over six feet. Another said six feet or a bit less. Different comments on the hair, other things. 

You keep ignoring some real basic facts here:

• Hahneman pulled off his own hijacking just a few months after Cooper did. 
   
• He was seen at length by not only witnesses at the hotel where he stayed, but by most of the passengers and crew on the aircraft he hijacked. 
   
• He was CAUGHT and sent to Federal prison after a court appearance and a guilty plea later. 
   
• His picture was in all the newspapers. 
   
• He was never charged with the Cooper hijacking, and there is little or nothing about him in any of the FBI files on Cooper. At least so far. 
   
• He spent more than ten years in prison under the care and observation of the Feds...who were STILL beating the bushes for Cooper. 
   
• And in all of that, and AFTER all of that...you want people to believe Cooper was Hahneman and no one from the investigation into the Cooper hijacking, or the FBI or other LEO involved here...noticed he might be a good suspect? Or even wondered about it?
   

It is nearly beyond the realm of possibility. We're talking a major crime with an identified suspect (Hahneman), same type of crime (skyjacking/extortion for money), involving the same law enforcement agency looking for Cooper (FBI). Either everyone was as dumb as a bag of hammers, or you are wrong about Cooper being Hahneman. Someone would have figured it out. And quickly, too. In fact, there is no doubt that right after Hahneman pulled his little stunt, that the first thing the Feds would have wondered was if Hahneman was also Cooper. You don't even give them credit for that, when that idea would have been obvious to them. 

The most likely scenario is that the FBI did wonder if Hahneman and Cooper were the same person, as soon as Hahneman hijacked that jet and got his money and chutes. But somehow they were able to eliminate him from the suspect pool so easily that he doesn't get more than a brief mention in their Cooper files, if that. What's going on here is that THEY probably know something about his alibi for Cooper that you do NOT know. There are only two real possibilities for that. First, that the FBI easily established an alibi for him regarding 11/24/1971. Or...the witnesses were contacted privately and shown his pictures...and said he wasn't Cooper. 

Maybe both. Maybe more. 

Phase Two: There is also the manner of modus operandi in both crimes. Cooper was cool and collected and polite, and never made ugly threats to anyone. Hahneman threatened people (a lot) with the gun he carried and put a noose around the pilot's neck at one point. Both Cooper and Hahneman smoked, but Cooper smoked Raleighs, while Hahneman demanded a few cartons of Benson and Hedges cigarettes. Their methods of hijacking were as different as night and day. Even while Hahneman was on the run in Honduras for a month...the FBI identified him and had his picture. But for some reason, the FBI figured out he wasn't Cooper. And during the time he was on the run, FBI agents were canvassing and questioning his family, his friends, his co-workers, and all the witnesses from the flight. 

To cut to the chase....if Hahneman had been DB Cooper...the FBI would have figured it out very quickly. When you have an identified perp in custody, it's not that hard to link him to a similar crime occurring only a few months beforehand...the Cooper hijacking. They would have been on top of that angle, and quickly. Yet they never did. Then there was the 10+ years he was also available to them while he sat in Federal prison. It would have been child's play for the Feds to link him to the Cooper hijacking, if indeed he were Cooper. 

Meh, same old..

There is more on the FBI investigating KC in the FBI files than Hahneman, by your logic KC can't be Cooper or the FBI would have figured it out. The same argument you use against Hahneman can be applied to KC and you fail to recognize it.

Your argument is irrational.

but, I get it your KC narrative is threatened by the facts so you lash out.. KC was not Cooper and you know it but have to defend it because you are so emotionally invested. It isn't personal, it is reality.

 

The evidence..

Cooper had thin lips and a protruding lower lip. That can be many people but it does eliminate most.

Cooper was Latin/Mexican in features and characteristics as well as "swarthy/olive" complexion.

 

Anybody that ignores that has zero credibility.