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DB Cooper

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5 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

So, if the FDR records the magnetic heading and it was examined can't the flightpath be confirmed??

Not really.  The word "heading" means that the wind correction angle has been applied to the calculations.  Except in landing, the wind direction is always specified with respect to true north and all wind problems should be worked with respect to true directions rather than magnetic directions.

An error free compass (zero deviation) points to magnetic north with wanders around north of Greenland.  Consequently, the correction that must be applied to magnetic north to get to true north is called variation and is constantly changing and also varies along a given flight path.

To determine a specific ground track, which is what is needed here, requires knowledge of the winds aloft, altitude, ambient temperature, and other factors.  Some of these factors can be determined by simply tracking inbound and/or outbound to a VOR station on a radial. And the so-called FBI flight path clearly indicates this did not happened.  Plus there is plenty of room for making mistakes in these calculations.

The above is summarized from Jeppesen navigation publications.   

Edited by Robert99

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12 minutes ago, DFS346 said:

Coming soon to a bookstore near you ...

211018 D. B.  Cooper and Flight 305.jpg

Looks good..  Wayfarer's

https://www.amazon.com/Cooper-Flight-305-Reexamining-Disappearance/dp/0764362569

 

"The "D. B. Cooper" case is the only unsolved act of air piracy in US history. On November 24, 1971, a polite, nondescript, and dark-complexioned man calling himself "Dan Cooper" hijacked Northwest Airlines Flight 305, Boeing 727, between Portland, Oregon, and Seattle, Washington. At Seattle International Airport, he demanded and received $200,000 and four parachutes, released the passengers, and ordered the crew to take him to Mexico. Somewhere along the way, he jumped. He was never found or identified. Forty-five years later, the FBI gave up the hunt. This book looks at the case from the perspective of a mathematician and pilot. It uses previously unexamined data and original-source documents, combined with the tools of statistics, aeronautics, and meteorology, to show where and how the FBI could resume the search and possibly find out at last who "D. B. Cooper" really was."

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7 minutes ago, georger said:

Might be interesting - fresh outlook. Previous books by author are technical: 

 
Technical Analysis of Stock Trends

Technical Analysis of Stock Trends

by Robert D. Edwards, John Magee, et al. | Jul 19, 2018

Sorry not the same guy - how do I remove this post here ? Cant find a REMOVE button ?

Edited by georger

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2 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

Looks good..  Wayfarer's

https://www.amazon.com/Cooper-Flight-305-Reexamining-Disappearance/dp/0764362569

 

"The "D. B. Cooper" case is the only unsolved act of air piracy in US history. On November 24, 1971, a polite, nondescript, and dark-complexioned man calling himself "Dan Cooper" hijacked Northwest Airlines Flight 305, Boeing 727, between Portland, Oregon, and Seattle, Washington. At Seattle International Airport, he demanded and received $200,000 and four parachutes, released the passengers, and ordered the crew to take him to Mexico. Somewhere along the way, he jumped. He was never found or identified. Forty-five years later, the FBI gave up the hunt. This book looks at the case from the perspective of a mathematician and pilot. It uses previously unexamined data and original-source documents, combined with the tools of statistics, aeronautics, and meteorology, to show where and how the FBI could resume the search and possibly find out at last who "D. B. Cooper" really was."

I'm almost done reading this. It's truly great.

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Here are Dan Gryder's three latest YouTube videos in which he brings up D. B.Cooper:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NFAnWlxwgc8 (roughly at 3m45s through 5m30s):

In the third of these, Mr Gryder says inter alia that:

* he (alone) knows who D. B. Cooper was (or is)

* he has recorded a podcast with Darren Schaefer for The Cooper Vortex

* he is planning a parachute jump at the spot where (he believes) D. B. Cooper jumped.

Edited by DFS346
additional information

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4 hours ago, DFS346 said:

 

Here are Dan Gryder's three latest YouTube videos in which he brings up D. B.Cooper:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NFAnWlxwgc8 (roughly at 3m45s through 5m30s):

In the third of these, Mr Gryder says inter alia that:

* he (alone) knows who D. B. Cooper was (or is)

* he has recorded a podcast with Darren Schaefer for The Cooper Vortex

* he is planning a parachute jump at the spot where (he believes) D. B. Cooper jumped.

Complete nonsense..

Marla: Zero evidence, just childhood (false) memory recall.. 

Dan,,, who knows who he thinks Cooper is...

Edited by FLYJACK

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Cooper's initial demand was to lower airstairs in flight.. this is an irrefutable fact. It is in the pilot transcripts, Harrison notes and clearly laid out in the FBI files. FBI summaries leave out this initial demand and only state that he wanted airstairs down, this is misleading. I checked the FBI docs and timing.. Cooper's initial demand was airstairs lowered inflight. Fullstop.

Cooper was told the plane did not have the range for Mexico and negotiations began.

The pilots and Cooper went back and forth on the airstair position during negotiations. The pilots wanted to get Tina off the plane. Cooper wanted her to lower the airstairs. 

They agreed to take off airstairs up.

 

So, Cooper initially demanded airstairs lowered in flight but changed it during the Reno negotiations. 

His PLAN A was NOT airstairs down on take off. Cooper did not want to jump ASAP until Reno was in play, he did not want to be on the plane in Reno. He altered his original plan and his ultimate LZ was most likely not his PLAN A.

 

Edited by FLYJACK

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1 hour ago, RobertMBlevins said:

I will try to do the copy/paste thing from the full text of the Ten Questions for Marla Cooper' interview. She made her answers in red, but since I can't control the text color here at DZ, I will just separate her answers from my questions, and that way readers will be able to tell who is speaking: 

Marla Cooper <[email protected]>     Tue, Dec 13, 2011 at 9:14 AM 
To: Robert Blevins <[email protected]

On Dec 12, 2011, at 5:36 PM, Robert Blevins <[email protected]> wrote:
Hi Marla,
I will list the questions below and leave space in between, in case you want to do cut and paste and just fill in the blanks. Or you can just print this up and give your answers. I'm going to put a *star* after some of the questions with a comment that says why we're asking this question, so you won't think it's a trick question. We want to be fair. The starred comments won't appear in the article.

 
For the actual article, in questions below where it says 'you've been quoted as saying...' I will insert a link to that specific portion of the news article. I tried not to get too specific on some questions, to allow some leeway for whomever wrote the articles we will quote from. You know...like when that reporter misquoted you on how many copies of the comic LD owned. Things like that. We're not trying to trick you here. Just attempting get the facts as best as you can recall. We understand you were only eight years old at the time. 


1) When your uncle showed up at your grandmother's house the day after the hijacking, you said he was injured. To your best recollection, what was he wearing and how badly do you think he was hurt?

(*Trying to determine if he was wearing same clothes as the hijacker at the time he arrived home.*)
The tie and sunglasses were conspicuously absent.


2) $5,800 of the ransom was discovered on the banks of the Columbia River in 1980. It is known that this money could not have arrived in that location before 1974. UW scientist Tom Kaye's research alleges that the money was most likely a plant, and did not (in his words) 'arrive there by natural means'. Do you have a theory on how the money arrived there? 

 


(*Everyone has a theory on the money. And they are all different. We know you've researched the case. We just wanted to hear yours.*)


3) One question that arises persistently is about verification from your other family members regarding events at your grandmother's house the day after the hijacking. Your mother has gone on record saying that she had suspicions LD was the hijacker. Have any other of your family members gone on record, and what do they say? 

(*Seeking verification of your story from additional family members*)


4) In recent news articles, you have claimed that Curtis Eng, current FBI case agent in Seattle for the Cooper case (or the Seattle FBI media agent) met with you and said he believed your uncle was either the best suspect, or that he believed LD Cooper was the hijacker, and that regardless of the print results on LD, that the FBI is planning to drop the case reasonably soon. Do you stand by these statements?


(*Since the FBI hasn't verified this, even after several requests from Seattle media, we have to ask you to go on the record here.*)


5) You've been quoted in a couple of news stories as saying the FBI showed pictures of LD Cooper to at least some surviving members of Flight 305's flight crew, and that at least one of them identified LD as possibly being the hijacker. Which flight crew were shown the picture, and which one(s) identified him as possibly being Cooper?

(*This is a fair question, since stewardess Florence Schaffner has previously said Kenny Christiansen's picture was (quote) 'the closest I've ever seen to the hijacker.' )

6) There has been much research done on the famous Cooper comic book. It was mostly distributed in France, Belgium, and some parts of eastern Canada. Very few copies reached the United States. Yet you claim your uncle had several copies on the wall of the bedroom at your grandmother's house. When you think about it today, do you have any theories on how he might have acquired them?


(*Comic book was not associated with the case until 2008, when the info was released by the FBI. Your uncle died nine years earlier, so we had to ask, since it is a key element of your claim.*) 


7) One well-known quote in your story is your Uncle LD saying, 'We did it. Our money problems are over...we hijacked a plane.' Were any other still-living family members present when LD allegedly made this statement? If they are no longer living, then who else heard him make this statement?


(*Seeking a second source for the statement*)
 


8) In your research on LD Cooper, did you discover any evidence that he may have had at least a minimum experience in using a parachute?

(*Another have-to-ask question. Testimony from stewardess Tina Mucklow, and some elements of the case record indicate the hijacker almost certainly had some parachute experience, and that because he selected the NB-6 chute, it may have been military. He picked the NB-6 over a newer sport chute when he jumped.*)


9) The Deschutes County Sheriffs Department near Sisters, Oregon has been made aware of your claim about LD Cooper saying he was in a car accident, and that was how he received his injuries. You say it was a result of a bad landing after the hijacking jump, based on his statement that he and Dewey actually hijacked a jet instead. How will you respond if they discover an accident report from the time of the crime with either LD's or Dewey's name on it?


(*Portland FBI and Deschutes County have been told about your claim. No one knows if they are actually researching the old records, but it is possible they could be checking.*)


10) During the time that LD Cooper stayed at your grandmother's house, was he known to have his own car? Optional: Do you know what type of car he owned? 


(*Trying to establish that if the injured-during-the-jump story is true, then if he owned a car, that car would still be there after the date of the hijacking and available to him, since there would have been no accident.*)

Submitted by Robert Blevins
12/12/2011
My thanks to you for agreeing to answer these questions.

Robert says: (Today) This interview was from ten years ago. I figure that is long enough to keep it away from DZ. This was the unedited version. As you can see, she was not only having trouble coming up with legitimate answers, but some of her comments border on hostile. I edited out some of her smart-ass comments for the WordPress and Quora dot com versions. 
 

No thanks on the unedited version but you have apparently posted it anyway.  A blue Triumph sports car?  Which Triumph sports car?  Did LD have a passenger or baggage when he arrived?  In the early 1970s I had a Triumph Spitfire sports car and things were not very roomy inside.

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2 hours ago, RobertMBlevins said:

Leaving for the hills again for a week, so please don't report me as missing. I need a little time alone. B)

I also see, as usual, that Marla Cooper is spouting off her hatred again over at Bruce Smith's website. I'm starting to feel sorry for Bruce, since it's obvious his own website has gotten away from him...and it proves that Marla has an ugly side to her as well. I poked a little fun at her with a couple of cartoons, and tried to give her a fair shot to explain herself, which she failed miserably. Her fault, not mine. She comes back constantly with personal attacks and outright lies/hatred. The usual stuff. Her comments will be pointed out by internet link to both the Kiggins Theater staff and the local paper in Vancouver. 

It is exactly what she deserves. Trust me on this one. ¬¬ What I couldn't believe is that she would do these things on an article by Bruce that was supposed to be a respectful remembrance of Jo Weber. 

And you are certain that it is actually Marla that is posting?

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19 minutes ago, RobertMBlevins said:

I have sent Bruce Smith a message regarding my last two posts. I will be returning on Friday afternoon next week. If I still see those comments visible by Marla Cooper and her friend Gypsy 23, I will be sending links to those comments to the appropriate people. Probably won't have any result, but it's good to bring these sort of unnecessary personal attacks by people involved in Cooper Con to the attention of others involved in the convention. 

I will remind anyone reading this now, or who is involved in the convention....that the last time you engaged in this behavior...they canceled your venue. In any case, it will probably put off the media a bit. I'm a big believer in holding people responsible for their own actions. Sometimes even MINE. 

Don't do anything stupid Blevins.. CooperCon is a separate issue from those trolls.

Bruce might be out of town. 

 

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8 hours ago, RobertMBlevins said:

I couldn't care less if he is out of town. This has been an ongoing problem with him, and he doesn't answer his email. So if his failure to monitor his own website causes problems for Cooper Con...that is a BRUCE problem. Marla Cooper is listed on the Cooper Con program as a speaker. And trolls deserve whatever they get. 

How do you know if that is actually Marla trolling you?

Trolls don't use their real names.

So, if you are wrong and you probably are, you will be making a huge mistake and potentially impacting lots of people completely unrelated to the troll you are trying to get back at.

And that will sink your reputation to the sewer in the minds of everyone.

Big mistake Blevins..  

 

and I have no respect for Eric. I will never have anything to do with him but there are others I do respect that are involved. You will be potentially impacting them and attendees based on your false assumption.

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Let's just call a spade a spade.

Blevins is going to do anything he can to derail the event. There's a track record of such things. Anyone with half a brain knows that Marla isn't posting on Bruce's site. I also doubt that there are any reporters or anyone involved with the event that care about internet trolls. Most people are mature and smart enough to realize what a troll is and ignore it.

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41 minutes ago, RobertMBlevins said:

I understand where you are coming from, but consider THIS:

  • Bruce Smith's column is actually a WordPress blog. I have two of them, one for Cooper and another for personal. Have had these for years. Which means I know how WordPress operates. 
     
  • Bruce KNOWS Marla personally. He's met her at Cooper Con and spoken to her on the phone. 
     
  • He speaks of her often in Cooper-related posts on the internet. 
     
  • He has access to Marla's IP address, as well as the email address she uses to make posts on his own website. This is a basic function of a WordPress blog. He could easily verify her true identity, and if he is allowing some phony troll to post as Marla...and that person ISN'T Marla...that is Bruce's fault. 
     
  • The posts are very ugly in nature, and mention my new girlfriend (we will be engaged soon) and talks about the home where we live, and tell many lies about us and our personal living situation. 
     
  • Bruce has ignored my repeated attempts to contact him about these posts, and my concern over them. He has said publicly he is not opening the emails. 
     
  • So...my opinion is that Bruce is deliberately supporting hatred and lies about others on his own WordPress blog. 
     
  • So...my opinion is that if Cooper Con suffers as a result of his behavior...then that is HIS fault...and anyone involved in Cooper Con should blame HIM for being so foolish. 
     
  • I have absolutely no sympathy for a group who don't do a little self-policing, or use common sense when attempting to host an event where the attendees are expected to cover their own expenses, and where the public is asked to pay $20 a ticket to attend. 
     
  • The people involved in this stupidity have done this before. They have a history. 
     
  • This morning I am headed up the Little Naches for a few days and will be incommunicado. When I return, if these posts have not been removed, I WILL make certain people aware of them by internet link and screenshot. That means two reporters who will probably be covering the event, as well as the staff at the Kiggins Theater in Vancouver. 
     
  • Since the people involved in these things are obviously watching posts here at Dropzone, they will undoubtedly make ADDITIONAL nasty postings related to my post right here, right now. Which means they haven't the sense God gave a goat. 
     
  • Which also means they deserve any negativity related to the convention that happens to them. My best suggestion is that Eric Ulis contact Bruce Smith at once and tell him to remove his head from his behind before he screws up everything. AB of Seattle's position on this whole thing is that we believe Bruce Smith and Marla Cooper, as scheduled speakers at the upcoming Cooper Con, are engaged in slander against other Cooper folks, and should NOT be on the schedule on November 24th at the Kiggins Theater. I have already taken screenshots of the postings for use later. 'Later' is defined as when I return from Little Naches in a few days. Whether my protests fall on deaf ears, or whether the Kiggins staff decide they don't want to be associated with such people means zip to me. This is just something I have to do. And I will.  

It is very unlikely that troll is the real Marla.

Bruce should police it better.

But, you will be solely responsible for any actions that you take.

You over generalize blame to everyone... tossing a grenade into a crowd hoping to hit a target based on assumption is never a good strategy. 

Based on your "belief", the entire Cooper world will turn on you. You will be held 100% responsible by people who have nothing to do with that troll that has nothing to do with CooperCon..  

You can't win, if you complain about an anonymous troll and something happens everyone hates you.. if you complain and nothing happens, everyone still hates you.

 

A huge mistake...  

 

 

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21 minutes ago, RobertMBlevins said:

How does 'anyone with half a brain' know it isn't Marla? Do you have inside information on this? Bruce Smith KNOWS MARLA PERSONALLY. He has interactions and discussion with and ABOUT her for years on the internet. Why would Bruce allow someone to post AS Marla...if this person were NOT Marla? Get real. 

It is not my wish to derail Cooper Con. But on the other hand, if scheduled speakers to that event are going to support on their own websites lies about others involved in the Cooper case...then the event (without any kind of sensible self-policing) deserves what it gets. 

I will be back in town on Thursday afternoon. I recommend people involved in the convention get their shit together and stop blaming me for their own behavior. Otherwise, I am well within my rights to report such behavior to the media types covering it, as well as the people sponsoring it. Stop whining and start acting sensibly. You shouldn't be talking to me. You should be talking to Eric Ulis and Bruce Smith. Quickly. 

I am no longer actively investigating the Cooper case. I don't do interviews anymore about it. I am not attending the convention. The people involved in that convention should stop worrying about me and worry about how many seats they can fill. AB of Seattle offered to promote that convention and that was rejected. I am okay with that, but I am NOT okay with the same people scheduled to speak at that convention coming after me with lies and personal attacks. And I think both the media and the public (who are being asked to shell out a whopping twenty bucks a ticket) should be made aware of things. 

If necessary. So far, it isn't necessary. But when I come back home on Thursday, it may be. I won't put up with this crap a second time. Just like I didn't put up with it when prior to the other convention these same people were calling KC a child rapist. Get it together folks. 

Just so you'll know, the UFO people and the Bigfoot folks, or the abductee folks have vastly differing opinions. But it is only the DB Cooper people who take internet garbage to the ultimate degree. Which is part of the reason I extricated myself from certain things Cooper, and closed a couple of websites. Instead of coming after me, you guys should be getting your act together and figuring out how to fill those 320 or so seats at Cooper Con. As usual, you are once again shooting yourselves in the foot and blaming others for your behavior. 

I don't think it is the real Marla..  

Did the trolls stop after the last time you got an event canceled, NO, they increased and your reputation took a big hit..

This is a losing move anyway it plays out. 

If you are willing to potentially ruin an event for people who have nothing to do with that troll.. then only you will be held responsible for your actions.

Your vengeance is misguided and it will backfire.

 

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Anyone else listen to the last Cooper Vortex episode? It's a long one, I haven't completely finished it myself. The guy interviewed talks about a cabin break-in and boat theft in (or near?) the drop zone but the details are sketchy/vague. I wonder if it'd be possible to verify or follow up on these stories, doesn't sound promising to me from what he said but you never know.

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2 hours ago, Coopericane said:

Anyone else listen to the last Cooper Vortex episode? It's a long one, I haven't completely finished it myself. The guy interviewed talks about a cabin break-in and boat theft in (or near?) the drop zone but the details are sketchy/vague. I wonder if it'd be possible to verify or follow up on these stories, doesn't sound promising to me from what he said but you never know.

I listened to it.. 

The problem with Duane Weber has been Jo Weber.  

She is a serial fabricator. Take her stories out and there is no evidence.

Jo contacted me shortly after I joined DZ (like she did most) to convince me Duane was Cooper.. when I didn't accept it, she started lying about me to discredit me. Jo was very manipulative.

Tim found a record of a deposit box of Duane's and is convinced it held the money.. and is stuck in finding out what was in it, so he is asking for assistance..

His bayesian analysis was interesting but logically flawed, I can do the same and get a 1 of 1 for Hahneman.

I don't see any real evidence for Duane as Cooper..

 

Sometimes, I wonder if Jo was fed info by FBI/CIA as a misinformation strategy... to push Duane as a false Cooper.

 

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1 hour ago, FLYJACK said:

I listened to it.. 

The problem with Duane Weber has been Jo Weber.  

She is a serial fabricator. Take her stories out and there is no evidence.

Jo contacted me shortly after I joined DZ (like she did most) to convince me Duane was Cooper.. when I didn't accept it, she started lying about me to discredit me. Jo was very manipulative.

Tim found a record of a deposit box of Duane's and is convinced it held the money.. and is stuck in finding out what was in it, so he is asking for assistance..

His bayesian analysis was interesting but logically flawed, I can do the same and get a 1 of 1 for Hahneman.

I don't see any real evidence for Duane as Cooper..

 

Sometimes, I wonder if Jo was fed info by FBI/CIA as a misinformation strategy... to push Duane as a false Cooper.

 

Where's Tim's (PLF) bayesian analysis ?  Where and when did he do that? Can people see it? 

A bayesian analysis of what !?

*Bayesian inference is a method of statistical inference in which Bayes' theorem is used to update the probability for a hypothesis as more evidence or information becomes available. Bayesian inference is an important technique in statistics, and especially in mathematical statistics. Wikipedia

 

Edited by georger

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Lets take a concrete example of a Bayesian analysis, socalled. Evaluations/predictions in a Bayesian analysis are based on a statistical chain of events in time. Deviation from the chain requires a decision or some prior event or data with a large statistical bias, such that at some point in time there is a high statistical probability of a change. The FBI flight path is just such a case. See photo attached. According to different people 305 was faced with a decision at the Toldeo intersection. Go left (east) or continue (south - the west path).   How does Tim's Bayesian analysis make that decision, based on what? How does it predict where the plane will go, based on what? Moreover, if 305 had vanished off of radar just after passing Toledo, where would Tim's Bayesian analysis predict we would find the plane? This should be enlightening ? 

If Tim's analysis is a Bayesian analysis of the flight path then Tim must have predictive data which decides which direction 305 will go AT the Toledo intersection ?  But I am in the dark about what precisely Tim is claiming to have done, that requires a Bayesian Analysis, if that is what Tim has actually done ?

 

choice Toledo to Canby.JPG

Edited by georger

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Reply to Tim Collins re podcast: how did Jo learn about the Heisson store robbery, and other details/people, in the Cooper case.  The answer is simple. It was Jo's contact who was an attorney in either Portland or Vancouver, I forget which. If Collins will go back and read my posts at DZ back when he was there supporting the Duane theory, I finally asked Jo directly about her contact in Portland?, the attorney she talked to weekly .... and all Hell broke lose. I had just revealed publicly one of Jo's major sources she used in her attempts to build a DB Cooper case for Duane. I forget the woman's name but will go back and see if I can find it. I can't believe Collins is still at this in support of Jo and Duane Weber.   

Jo had a number of sources she cultivated and used regularly, often daily for years, in her attempt to cultivate a case for Duane and herself. Remember the 'angel' that popped out of nowhere when Jo had been abandoned by a producer who gave up on Jo - that 'angel' who appeared magically out of nowhere to rescue Jo and give her a ride, was also one of Jo's regular contacts in Washington ... Jo just called the woman and the woman came to Jo's rescue. But in Jo's story it was divine intervention - just as Duane Weber was also DB Cooper. Who else! ? Its hilarious how gullible people can be... and how Jo relied on that to get what she wanted. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar and nothing more!

Edited by georger
...

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10 hours ago, georger said:

Lets take a concrete example of a Bayesian analysis, socalled. Evaluations/predictions in a Bayesian analysis are based on a statistical chain of events in time. Deviation from the chain requires a decision or some prior event or data with a large statistical bias, such that at some point in time there is a high statistical probability of a change. The FBI flight path is just such a case. See photo attached. According to different people 305 was faced with a decision at the Toldeo intersection. Go left (east) or continue (south - the west path).   How does Tim's Bayesian analysis make that decision, based on what? How does it predict where the plane will go, based on what? Moreover, if 305 had vanished off of radar just after passing Toledo, where would Tim's Bayesian analysis predict we would find the plane? This should be enlightening ? 

If Tim's analysis is a Bayesian analysis of the flight path then Tim must have predictive data which decides which direction 305 will go AT the Toledo intersection ?  But I am in the dark about what precisely Tim is claiming to have done, that requires a Bayesian Analysis, if that is what Tim has actually done ?

 

choice Toledo to Canby.JPG

It is in the podcast, 

It focusses on Cooper's characteristics vs Duane.

The analysis is interesting but flawed, IMO.

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