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DB Cooper

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(edited)
12 minutes ago, ParrotheadVol said:

Robert - If I were to go online and buy a copy of "Into The Blast", would that book tell me that Kenny Christiansen bought his house for cash, or has that error been corrected?


hey I don't support this idea of KC.

BUT: have people seen that the FBI did investigate KC in the latest FBI files. I was wondering if Blevins would have been all excited to see the references in the FBI files.

 

Also: did people note the list of "Phase II" suspects that were still considered plausible in 2004 when they dispatched agents to collect DNA with respect to 3 or 4 of those still-not-cleared suspects? (sadly, they still had McCoy on that list, but there are others, redacted. They had some reasons why #1 was still on the list, based on their investigation)

I was wondering if people had pursued the name of  the #1 on that list. They have some info, but most is redacted.

KC didn't make the cut.

I was surprised to see stuff from 2004 in the files. 
Still seems like there is more stuff to come in the future.  around 21278 pages now (61 files)

Edited by snowmman

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21 minutes ago, snowmman said:


hey I don't support this idea of KC.

BUT: have people seen that the FBI did investigate KC in the latest FBI files. I was wondering if Blevins would have been all excited to see the references in the FBI files.

 

Also: did people note the list of "Phase II" suspects that were still considered plausible in 2004 when they dispatched agents to collect DNA with respect to 3 or 4 of those still-not-cleared suspects? (sadly, they still had McCoy on that list, but there are others, redacted. They had some reasons why #1 was still on the list, based on their investigation)

I was wondering if people had pursued the name of  the #1 on that list. They have some info, but most is redacted.

KC didn't make the cut.

I was surprised to see stuff from 2004 in the files. 
Still seems like there is more stuff to come in the future.  around 21278 pages now (61 files)

You're talking about the first two guys here right? https://martinandrade.wordpress.com/2020/11/24/db-cooper-the-fbis-unresolved-suspects/ 

They're both very intriguing suspects IMO, and need more attention. Some people have been making efforts to identify them but no conclusions have been reached, as far as I know.

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3 hours ago, snowmman said:

I hadn't read the article, thanks for the link.

first thoughts on the article:

looking at the picture, the bills should have been constrained by a paper strap, in multiple bundles secured by rubber bands, as the more likely packaging to cooper, but I think that doesn't change things much.

 
The idea that the bills were as shown, secured by rubber bands only, is very unlikely. The available documentation doesn't support that description. (mostly it comes from Carr pushing his bias, based on some undocumented info and conversations he had..but his point of view colored his descriptions of that info)

Additionally, testing the effect of a single bundle in water isn't interesting. A large number of strapped packets, with groups secured by rubber bands, in a bag, would behave differently.
 
There's nothing to suggest that the first arrival in water, was individual bundles, either from the sky or otherwise. Testing single bundles first, is an assumption/bias about bundles arriving in water.

Yes, the float test was done long ago.. needs to be redone.

Tina handled the money and said bank style bands, the bank manager is noted in the FBI files saying bank bands and Himmelsbach said straps...

I noticed Ulis is claiming the rubber band frag was in the middle, I have never found any evidence for that.. 

Somebody should ask him for a source.

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6 hours ago, Coopericane said:

You're talking about the first two guys here right? https://martinandrade.wordpress.com/2020/11/24/db-cooper-the-fbis-unresolved-suspects/ 

They're both very intriguing suspects IMO, and need more attention. Some people have been making efforts to identify them but no conclusions have been reached, as far as I know.

No, you're talking about the early Shelton reference (the "Indian" family.

There's another, later. Phase II. 2004.

Oh wait, maybe they're all the same. Not sure. Seems like you've connected the dots better. 

Edited by snowmman

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(edited)
10 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

The evidence indicates money was given to Cooper in 100 bill packets of circulated $20 bills of random SN number sequence. The packets were likely bank paper strapped and those packets rubber banded into bundles of a random count of packets..

I'm sure you've seen it, and you may have mentioned this before and I just don't remember it, but in the old Unsolved Mysteries episode on DB Cooper, Ralph Himmelsbach states the following:

"There were ten thousand twenty dollar bills assembled in straps of a hundred bills to a strap, and individual straps held together with rubber bands".

 

Edited by ParrotheadVol

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(edited)
19 minutes ago, ParrotheadVol said:

I'm sure you've seen it, and you may have mentioned this before and I just don't remember it, but in the old Unsolved Mysteries episode on DB Cooper, Ralph Himmelsbach states the following:

"There were ten thousand twenty dollar bills assembled in straps of a hundred bills to a strap, and individual straps held together with rubber bands".

 

Yes, I posted that vid here before..

Also Tina, bank type bands

tinabanktypebands.jpg.92e37fb0a4426e4d1bbc04a53590c2ff.jpg

and bank bands

bankbandpackets.jpeg.59877677065d2d8e6a2b2d816ec7188b.jpeg

 

one bundle

1138823993_onebundle.JPG.46e133212ebf9e1e32c9b39b6f78a3f7.JPG

Edited by FLYJACK

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5 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

Yes, I posted that vid here before..

Also Tina, bank type bands

tinabanktypebands.jpg.92e37fb0a4426e4d1bbc04a53590c2ff.jpg

and bank bands

bankbandpackets.jpeg.59877677065d2d8e6a2b2d816ec7188b.jpeg

 

one bundle

1138823993_onebundle.JPG.46e133212ebf9e1e32c9b39b6f78a3f7.JPG

That interview with the Seafirst Bank employee seems pretty definitive to me.

It seems to me, that rubber bands were not introduced into discussion or FBI memos, until the money was found in 1980?
Was there any mention of rubber bands before 1980?

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(edited)
6 hours ago, snowmman said:

That interview with the Seafirst Bank employee seems pretty definitive to me.

It seems to me, that rubber bands were not introduced into discussion or FBI memos, until the money was found in 1980?
Was there any mention of rubber bands before 1980?

Also, the FBI did not want to publicly release the manor in which the money was packaged as only Cooper would know.. they state that. That info was a hold back.

"information only known to us and the hijacker"

840807694_coopercashonebundleacopy.jpg.3a77caf31ddbcdffe6136b640e470338.jpg

 

Bundles were randomized,,, (not packets of 100) 

IMPORTANT: The money was found in packets of 100's in original order not random count, evidence is the bundles were randomized and that must have been done with rubber bands.

 

"bundled into several sizes the time of the hijacking" "appear that it was randomly done"

1337574135_coopermoneyrandomizedcopy.jpeg.90c6f0d04781d3bfb55676fcfeb15883.jpeg

 

"bundled".. "randomly done"

764278117_Oregonian_Feb_13_1980_Front_Pagecopy.thumb.gif.3020119a5b5eacb8bd66d1087b8ec8bb.gif

 

I posted this before but it is important..

7:19 in video

Himmelsbach.. Money was given to Cooper strapped in 100's and bundled with rubber bands..

"There were ten thousand twenty dollar bills assembled in straps of a hundred bills to a strap and individual straps held together with rubber bands."

 

 

Edited by FLYJACK

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(edited)
5 hours ago, RobertMBlevins said:

One of the most common questions that readers of Into The Blast send me is asking WHY none of the bills were ever discovered in circulation. (Look folks...whether you agree with the premise of the book or not, it still remains the second-best selling book on the case behind Geoff Gray's Skyjack, and my email address is all over the internet.)

My answer is based (to a degree) on an interview I did with a senior Treasury official some years ago. He had worked for 30 years at the Bureau of Printing and Engraving in DC, where the order came down originally from the FBI for them to check all their incoming twenties against the famous bill list. And as some of you know, FBI agent Ralph Himmelsbach claimed for years that they were looking for those bills over an extended period of time. 

However...this Treasury official rejected this completely. He said that BEP received 'truckloads' (his words) of used and damaged currency each week. He said that no matter what the FBI claimed, that such an order would have been ignored, or that such a search would have gone on for no more than a very short time, due to the logistics of trying to search so many incoming bills against that list. He added that the Federal banks would have handled it the same way...a cursory, short-term search, if any was done at all, no matter what Himmelsbach was telling the media. 

This is similar to what happened with the civilian Northwest banks. Larry Carr admitted in his radio interview with Steven Rienhart (linked at the bottom of the DB Cooper page at Wikipedia) that the civilian search was abandoned by most of the banks within three months after the bill list was issued, and virtually ALL of them gave it up after no more than six months. 

This means that by May of 1972, no one was actually looking for the bills against the list anymore. After that time, they could be safely spent as long as you weren't dropping huge numbers of them at some car lot or whatever. After that time, if the bills were in circulation and after they were worn out and eventually ended up at the BEP in DC...that they would pass through the system there and be destroyed with no one the wiser. 

And that is how they were probably missed. It was just too much of a job to ask of anyone. 

Darren interviewed the numismismisistister "money guy" he said if the money were spent in the US something would show up.. 

Hahneman fled to Honduras weeks after NORJAK, if he was Cooper then the money went to Honduras and was stashed and/or spent..  never to show up in US circulatiion.

Edited by FLYJACK

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49 minutes ago, ParrotheadVol said:

Or lost during the jump? Thus creating the need to do another hijacking? 

Yes, all or part lost...

Hahneman was in the US Dec 71 and fled to Honduras Jan 72 to establish residency there. He got an ID with Honduran citizenship, an altered name and an incorrect birthdate. He was hiding.

 

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I have the 9998 ransom bill list in a searchable spreadsheet. It was a lot of work.

Every few months or so I check $20 bills listed on EBAY, people mocked me for it, screw em, I have also selected interesting/collectable bill SN's from the list and googled them.. Funny, I got a perfect SN match, but it was a $1 bill, I never thought they would use the same serial number for different denominations. I have found some $20 bills that were very very close but no matches. There are no start/stop bills in the list and I have identified around 80 TBAR bills, they are distributed fairly random in the list. That is because the FBI list was re-ordered from the random sequence given to Cooper to alpha numeric. Unfortunately, we don't have that original order.

billlistspread.jpeg.80b406231d5d1f5c3c2176b25b056584.jpeg

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(edited)
1 hour ago, RobertMBlevins said:

You can believe what you wish. I will believe Larry Carr and the guy who had worked at Treasury for 30 years. 

Carr's opinion here is meaningless.

Nothing is certain, but with nearly 9700 bills potentially circulating in the US over and over, it is likely one would have been found.

I see your treasury guy's 30 years and raise it 10 years...

Your Treasury guy's opinion that there is a possibility the bills were not caught at the Treasury when bills are destroyed, that might be true, but that isn't the question. Would none of the 9700 bills be caught circulating throughout the country for years..

Classic Blevins, take an opinion, shift the context and assert it as fact.

Arthur L. Friedberg has been a professional numismatist for over 40 years. He has BA in history from George Washington University and an MBA from New York University. His family firm the Coin and Currency Institute is a founding member of the elite International Association of Professional Numismatists (I.A.P.N.). In June of 2001 Arthur was elected President of the Association, the first time in it's 50 year history an American has held that office. He is a lifetime member of the American Numismatic Association, and a member of the prestigious Professional Numismatists Guild since 1977. He's been a consultant to the Money and Medal Programme of the Food and Agriculture Organization of the United Nations in Rome, Italy and has testified as an expert before the United States Senate Banking Committee. Arthur has also authored several books including, Paper Money of the United States, Modern World Coins, and Coins of the Bible. He's a contributor to The Numismatist and Coin World.

 

 

Edited by FLYJACK

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3 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

Also, the FBI did not want to publicly release the manor in which the money was packaged as only Cooper would know.. they state that. That info was a hold back.

"information only known to us and the hijacker"

840807694_coopercashonebundleacopy.jpg.3a77caf31ddbcdffe6136b640e470338.jpg

 

Bundles were randomized,,, (not packets of 100) 

IMPORTANT: The money was found in packets of 100's in original order not random count, evidence is the bundles were randomized and that must have been done with rubber bands.

 

"bundled into several sizes the time of the hijacking" "appear that it was randomly done"

1337574135_coopermoneyrandomizedcopy.jpeg.90c6f0d04781d3bfb55676fcfeb15883.jpeg

 

"bundled".. "randomly done"

764278117_Oregonian_Feb_13_1980_Front_Pagecopy.thumb.gif.3020119a5b5eacb8bd66d1087b8ec8bb.gif

 

I posted this before but it is important..

7:19 in video

Himmelsbach.. Money was given to Cooper strapped in 100's and bundled with rubber bands..

"There were ten thousand twenty dollar bills assembled in straps of a hundred bills to a strap and individual straps held together with rubber bands."

great colleciton of info, flyjack.

yes, random collections of strapped packets makes sense.

still, not totally random though, since rubber bands would only stretch so much. Suspect maybe the bundles were either 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 packets ?

can't imagine more than 6 packets? So it probably wasn't as random as one might speculate. Maybe mostly 3 to 5 ? 

 

 

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(edited)

Now Georger is blaming me for not knowing exactly what happened to the paper bands after tumbling down a river and being buried for potentially years in the sand.

He is still trying run from his decade old error..

As for Tina she was contacted and asked about the bank-style bands, she meant rubber bands, claimed Georger.. OH WAIT GEORGER LIED. Tina was never asked. Georger just made it up.. FRAUD

 

georgertinalie1.jpg.dd086670b66b22c4e7db6e6e733e36b8.jpg

 

I have three basic theories on TBAR and NONE are suspect specific NONE.

Edited by FLYJACK

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4 minutes ago, RobertMBlevins said:

Whatever, Flyjack. You know everything and everyone else is full of shit. That is your main approach to the case. 

You keep making claims about your suspect but present not a shred of evidence or witness testimony to back any of it up. You allege that Hahneman may have gotten a pass on Cooper from someone higher up, but you can't present anything remotely showing such a thing to be true either. 

I decided to take vacation early. You guys can fight over the details while I am gone. Be back a week from Friday. 

I never said he got a pass on Cooper, I said I have evidence of very high level intervention on his behalf and I do.

This is your problem,,, you make assumptions screw up everything and make false claims about me...

Unwinding the misinformation from you is a full time job... and you can't afford my fee.

 

Now, YOU need to admit KC doesn't match the basic Cooper description... it wasn't a tan dude.

 

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(edited)

This is getting ridiculous,,

Ulis now claims Brian said rubber band frags on the "front and back bill" (ok vague) and in the center of the bills (never heard that)...

First, I don't trust Ulis, he is a serial embellisher.. 

Second, the bank bands is a red herring, it not material for the packets to have been bank banded.

Lets's assume 'for argument" they were in rubber bands..  got it. 

Now, they still went to Cooper in 100's and were found on TBAR in 100's, the packets were not randomized. the money was in the same order and packaging according to the FBI.

AND there is evidence the bundles were randomized. We know it could not have been the packets of 100 so it could have only been the bundles of packets..

So it is inevitable. If the packets were in bank bands or rubber bands the packets must have been rubber banded into bundles of a random count. Either way, same outcome.

Ulis and Georger are playing an irrelevant strawman...  to advance a nonsequitor argument.

 

It doesn't matter if the packets of 100 were in rubber bands or bank bands,,, the packets were rubber banded into bundles of a random number.

That means the TBAR money likely landed as ONE single bundle as it went to Cooper as the FBI confirmed. <<< That is the takeaway... 

 

Ulis needs the TBAR separate packet theory to support his narrative. If the the money DID NOT arrived on TBAR as one bundle then it greatly limits the means by which it could arrive.

Georger and Carr have had this wrong for a decade... to defend his ego Georger doesn't even understand that the bank bands vs rubber bands are irrelevant to the TBAR one bundle conclusion.

For a decade all TBAR theories had to fit the narrative that the TBAR packets could have ONLY arrive independently. THIS IS FALSE. 

Edited by FLYJACK

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(edited)
25 minutes ago, RobertMBlevins said:

You keep talking badly about Eric Ulis, but you are no better than he is. You might be better on the finer details of the money questions...which by the way isn't going to lead you anywhere with ID'ing Cooper. It's a big waste of time. 

 

I thought you were leaving and you stay to toss in a backhanded compliment,, thanks, I think.

No, I am far better.

Eric is a disaster, you've essentially said that yourself.. Now Blevins defending Ulis... makes sense.

He stole Sailshaw's suspect and my tie research.. he built a completely false Sheridan narrative.. in the face of obvious contrary evidence. Everybody knows it.

I can't even think of anything substantial thing he contributed to the case. He got so many things wrong and embellished evidence over and over.. 

I knew he was a fraud way back,,,  he claimed Sheridan had a numbered account in Singapore based on HIS research of Singapore laws. I found that the law was passed but never enacted by banks.. Uiis was wrong. Fine, everybody gets things wrong and corrects. So, he just changed it to a Swiss account with no evidence.. ZERO. He always maintains his narrative regardless of the facts... The diatoms are in play so Ulis weaves some cray cray burial retrieval nonsense.

He claimed the FBI confirmed the placard was from NORJAK to push his WFP, they didn't and it wasn't.

Eric is a fraud, a good salesman but a fraud. A clever grifter.

 

You are right, sort of, I have developed three good theories on the TBAR money. None of them identify Cooper though 2 have the potential to lead to an identification but not likely. What those theories do is explain how Cooper could have survived and the money end up on TBAR. That does have value as the FBI shifted to a died in the jump narrative.

I treat this case as a big puzzle, We start putting together the pieces in groups from the edges in until we get a picture. Some groups just haven't joined yet.

 

Edited by FLYJACK

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(edited)
6 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

Now Georger is blaming me for not knowing exactly what happened to the paper bands after tumbling down a river and being buried for potentially years in the sand.

He is still trying run from his decade old error..

As for Tina she was contacted and asked about the bank-style bands, she meant rubber bands, claimed Georger.. OH WAIT GEORGER LIED. Tina was never asked. Georger just made it up.. FRAUD

 

georgertinalie1.jpg.dd086670b66b22c4e7db6e6e733e36b8.jpg

 

I have three basic theories on TBAR and NONE are suspect specific NONE.

What a bunch of frauds,,

Georger was referring to Tina when he lied "She (TINA) said bands, not straps. She (TINA) meant rubber bands. She (TINA) was contacted and asked. And as I have already said so was Mrs Ingram"..

Clearly, two different people, the "she" is not "so was Mrs Ingram".. The she was Tina. He now claims both referred to Mrs Ingram. Hey, why not double down. You lied Georger, own it. 

 

Eric Ulis claims there was no money missing because they found more bills,, classic Ulis screw up.. they identified more serial numbers from fragments, they didn't find all the other bills. In other words they deciphered more serial numbers from partials, they didn't add all those to the total number of bills. 

"During handling of the notes by PCGS Currency, 35 additional serial numbers were identified that the FBI had not recorded." That is not the same as discovering unknown bills. Clearly, each of the 280 bills counted by the FBI did not have full serial numbers.

https://www.coinworld.com/news/precious-metals/db-cooper-hijack-ransom-notes-collectible.html

 

Tom Kaye worked with Brian way back and Tom Kaye never got any description of the rubber band frags on the money from Brian..  suddenly Brian tells Ulis in detail not heard for 50 years,, BS meter on high. Not only has there never been any confirmation of the band frag locations there is no way each of the three packets had rubber band frags stuck to the top and bottom, the top of one packet was too severely damaged.. the sides of all were obliterated. Brian said they were brittle and fell of when touched, that was it. Was that when he brushed them from the sand and picked them up..

FBI Transcript: "As he did so, the boy turned up three bundles of money wrapped with rubber bands, which was a short distance below the surface of the sand. The boy picked up the money and they looked at it and determined that it had once been $20 bills." "The money was badly decomposed and was held together with rubber bands which were so old they crumbled away immediately upon handling."

There were reports that only two packets had rubber band frags.

"two of them held together with rubber bands that broke as soon as he handled them, while the third, which was not bound by a rubber band was thinner."

It is repeated here.

https://books.google.ca/books?id=sNzJyWLqP7MC&pg=PA195&lpg=PA195&dq="brian+ingram"+rubber+bands"&source=bl&ots=F1gVGxA4q2&sig=ACfU3U0AqckSSSVbyvW9a-CvJHlWYpoJ4g&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiA9eaZ_bbyAhVYJzQIHepsCLQQ6AF6BAgiEAM#v=onepage&q="brian ingram" rubber bands"&f=false

 

The irony is, it actually doesn't matter if the packets were paper straps or rubber bands... if the money was randomized that could only have been the groups of packets being rubber banded into bundles because we know the packets themselves were not a random count. That means the money went to Cooper in rubber banded bundles of multiple packets, period. 

Confirmed.. the FBI claimed the money was found in the same order, same form as given to Cooper and from one bundle.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by FLYJACK

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(edited)
34 minutes ago, FLYJACK said:

What a bunch of frauds,,

Georger was referring to Tina when he lied "She (TINA) said bands, not straps. She (TINA) meant rubber bands. She (TINA) was contacted and asked. And as I have already said so was Mrs Ingram"..

Clearly, two different people, the "she" is not "so was Mrs Ingram".. The she was Tina. He now claims both referred to Mrs Ingram. Hey, why not double down. You lied Georger, own it. 

 

Eric Ulis claims there was no money missing because they found more bills,, classic Ulis screw up.. they identified more serial numbers from fragments, they didn't find all the other bills. In other words they deciphered more serial numbers from partials, they didn't add all those to the total number of bills. 

"During handling of the notes by PCGS Currency, 35 additional serial numbers were identified that the FBI had not recorded." That is not the same as discovering unknown bills. Clearly, each of the 280 bills counted by the FBI did not have full serial numbers.

https://www.coinworld.com/news/precious-metals/db-cooper-hijack-ransom-notes-collectible.html

 

Tom Kaye worked with Brian way back and Tom Kaye never got any description of the rubber band frags on the money from Brian..  suddenly Brian tells Ulis in detail not heard for 50 years,, BS meter on high. Not only has there never been any confirmation of the band frag locations there is no way each of the three packets had rubber band frags stuck to the top and bottom, the top of one packet was too severely damaged.. the sides of all were obliterated. Brian said they were brittle and fell of when touched, that was it. Was that when he brushed them from the sand and picked them up..

FBI Transcript: "As he did so, the boy turned up three bundles of money wrapped with rubber bands, which was a short distance below the surface of the sand. The boy picked up the money and they looked at it and determined that it had once been $20 bills." "The money was badly decomposed and was held together with rubber bands which were so old they crumbled away immediately upon handling."

There were reports that only two packets had rubber band frags.

"two of them held together with rubber bands that broke as soon as he handled them, while the third, which was not bound by a rubber band was thinner."

It is repeated here.

https://books.google.ca/books?id=sNzJyWLqP7MC&pg=PA195&lpg=PA195&dq="brian+ingram"+rubber+bands"&source=bl&ots=F1gVGxA4q2&sig=ACfU3U0AqckSSSVbyvW9a-CvJHlWYpoJ4g&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiA9eaZ_bbyAhVYJzQIHepsCLQQ6AF6BAgiEAM#v=onepage&q="brian ingram" rubber bands"&f=false

 

The irony is, it actually doesn't matter if the packets were paper straps or rubber bands... if the money was randomized that could only have been the groups of packets being rubber banded into bundles because we know the packets themselves were not a random count. That means the money went to Cooper in rubber banded bundles of multiple packets, period. 

Confirmed.. the FBI claimed the money was found in the same order, same form as given to Cooper and from one bundle.

 

 

 

 

 

Good points.

One interesting thing. When the Ingrams washed the bills in the kitchen sink, they obviously caused some of the degraded edges to come off the bills. Hence the rounded appearance.

 

But, if the "rubber band stuck to bills" theory is correct, then apparently all traces of rubber bands were removed from the bills before the FBI saw them and took photographs? This is an interesting problem.

possible scenarios:

There are crumbling rubber bands, that might fall off on the beach and never make it home.

There is sticky rubber band fragments sticking to bills. But apparently they got washed away before the FBI saw them.

There's kind of a "magic bullet" problem here. The rubber bands exist only in memory. Whatever their condition, they left no trace that is visible to us in FBI photographs, the bills the Ingrams kept, or other FBI evidence gathering or reports.

The rubber band evidence was apparently totally removed from the scene, or in the kitchen sink.

Edited by snowmman

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(edited)
9 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

I have the 9998 ransom bill list in a searchable spreadsheet. It was a lot of work.

Every few months or so I check $20 bills listed on EBAY, people mocked me for it, screw em, I have also selected interesting/collectable bill SN's from the list and googled them.. Funny, I got a perfect SN match, but it was a $1 bill, I never thought they would use the same serial number for different denominations. I have found some $20 bills that were very very close but no matches. There are no start/stop bills in the list and I have identified around 80 TBAR bills, they are distributed fairly random in the list. That is because the FBI list was re-ordered from the random sequence given to Cooper to alpha numeric. Unfortunately, we don't have that original order.

 

Flyjack: How did you create your list of 9998?

Have you noticed that some of the star notes have sequential serial numbers?

I've identified a couple. Also some star notes are not sequential but from the same printed sheet..i.e. the serial numbers are close enough that they are from the same printed sheet. It's interesting a bank got star notes like this.


What is the total number of star notes vs 9998? I'm wondering if it is in line with the star note distribution printed for the various series years.
 

Edited by snowmman

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(edited)
17 minutes ago, snowmman said:

Good points.

One interesting thing. When the Ingrams washed the bills in the kitchen sink, they obviously caused some of the degraded edges to come off the bills. Hence the rounded appearance.

 

But, if the "rubber band stuck to bills" theory is correct, then apparently all traces of rubber bands were removed from the bills before the FBI saw them and took photographs? This is an interesting problem.

possible scenarios:

There are crumbling rubber bands, that might fall off on the beach and never make it home.

There is sticky rubber band fragments sticking to bills. But apparently they got washed away before the FBI saw them.

There's kind of a "magic bullet" problem here. The rubber bands exist only in memory. Whatever their condition, they left no trace that is visible to us in FBI photographs, the bills the Ingrams kept, or other FBI evidence gathering or reports.

The rubber band evidence was apparently totally removed from the scene, or in the kitchen sink.

yup, the rubber band frags existed,, it seems like they turned to powder and disintegrated when handled on the beach. We don't have any credible evidence to support the location of the rubber bands..

But it doesn't matter if they were rubber banded or bank strapped, the only conclusion can be that the money was in packets of 100 and rubber banded into a number of packets per bundle when given to Cooper.

 

Edited by FLYJACK

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