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quade

DB Cooper

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On 7/2/2021 at 2:56 PM, Para-DZ said:

Chaucer is passive aggressive. He starts arguments and then tries to pretend he’s your pal. He got himself kicked out of a DB Cooper Facebook group I heard. He’s trying to be relevant in the case by trying to cast doubt. Anyone can do that about anything. The man named Georger takes his side only because he doesn’t agree with Flyjack. Chaucer you should go back to the Zodiac case. 

Nine.

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(edited)

Hard to tell the weight of the material in pics especially when it is so caked with dirt. Silk shows signs deterioration after 4 years buried in soil, if it was silk it was buried for less than 4 years...

But, it looks like the Amboy chute won't be resolved without more info. 

No idea if it is silk or not,, and if not there is no way to confirm it was Cooper's.

Edited by FLYJACK

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(edited)

The bomb was fake because dynamite is tan argument has always bothered me...

There is red dynamite. Dynamite was made by many companies some very local.

For example, this is vintage ditching dynamite made by CIL, a Canadian company, they sold amunition products to the US, haven't confirmed the dynamite specifically but I believe they did. 

Note, very little writing on the sticks, if it was taped and turned no writing would be noticed.

It doesn't mean the bomb was real, just the argument that if the sticks were red it was fake =  BUSTED.

 

14664558_web1_K-Strat-Comms---MR---EDU-3---2018-11-27.jpg.aab21c210e8e7b95cee3fd94f4fabda1.jpg

Edited by FLYJACK

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(edited)
39 minutes ago, The Cooper Vortex said:

It's a sign you need to come on the show. That'd be a great birthday present.

You should celebrate with a Bourbon and Seven-Up...

Which Bourbon did Cooper have??

"NO TIPPING PLEASE"

57-NWOdrinkmenu.thumb.jpg.323616e17d49b9765f7206f03fd5fa69.jpg

 

Edited by FLYJACK

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5 minutes ago, RobertMBlevins said:

You are right. There is only one way to confirm. Well, two. Either the Seattle FBI coughs up the truth on what they really discovered about it...or if they finally allow Tom Kaye's team to have a look at it. Frankly, I always found it suspicious that Citizen Sleuths were handed over virtually all the physical evidence...but were denied access to the chute. 

That's funny, I thought Cooper's birthday came at the END of this month. Hmm. ^_^

 

KCFinalRest.jpg

Born in 1994?

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1 hour ago, RobertMBlevins said:

Yeah, I corrected that...ha...not enough coffee this morning. 

On a side note, I did make efforts to convince John Dower to at least post the Denise footage to YouTube on his own, or send it to me and grant me a license for it. He wouldn't do it, even after I explained how important it was for people to hear her and judge her testimony on their own. And how long I had worked with that family, etc. 

What a jerk. Picture below of me, him, one of the cameramen. And one picture of the female producer who finally told me the truth about the movie. I don't look very happy in the picture. I think I was beginning to suspect the whole thing was a sham. 

PostShot1.jpg

AnnaS1.jpg

Everyone liked it Robert. Everyone but you. They cut Kenny out, so it became a sham. If they'd left him in there, you'd still be talking about how great it was.

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(edited)

Georger is still mumbling some incoherent nonsense.. 

The crew reported oscillations AND fluctuations and 8:10. 

Even Georger said fluctuations were pressure bumps.

If you have a problem with the FBI analysis then articulate it and leave me out of it.

 

Robert99,, 

You are wrong, you have been wrong for a decade.. I have posted the FBI docs and explained this for years but YOU and ULIS ignore it because you needed it for your placard calculation and the WFP narrative. The placard didn't come from inside NORJAK and the SW wind was not a fact, it was an estimate (FBI).

The FBI files state (NOT ME) an AVERAGE of the two sets of data would  give a close ESTIMATE of conditions at Woodland.

An AVERAGE of the two sets of information for the times between 8:00 PM and 9:00 PM..

That means the FBI took the wind data for Salem and Portland between 8:00 to 9:00 PM AVERAGED it to create a proxy for the winds at Woodland, the search area.

The problem is twofold,, Woodland is far from Portland and Salem and the winds were averaged over an hour timespan. They were shifting around, a single datapoint for an entire hour is an average. The winds at 8:11 can be completely different from 8:45.

 

There is no data for the FBI LZ.. (about 8:11) They created a PROXY.

It is not accurate to claim as fact the winds were from the SW at the 8:10-12 timeframe on the FP.

Nearby wind data show it shifting between SE and SW..

IT WAS AN ESTIMATE

and the TK wind data was too far from the 8:11 LZ location as well. Salem 72 mi away and Quillayute 165 mi away...

"The two closest locations were Salem just south of Portland and Quillayute Bruce said was just west of Seattle. They launch twice a day at 5pm and 5am so that is the data we have. I had him pull a second random day Nov 11 for comparison and you can see that the winds then were actually east near the ground. Nov 24 looks pretty consistent all the way down but seems to be more southerly than we had estimated. Now you can do a proper analysis."

Tom Kaye

 

WINDESTIMATE.jpeg.624c14dd9672c1dc289627a3b887b792.jpeg

Edited by FLYJACK

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On 7/4/2021 at 6:33 AM, FLYJACK said:

I don't really have an opinion on the Amboy chute but a few things.. 

The find location I have is 5 miles due E from the FP, that is extreme for a drift.

The sled test showed no violent increase in fluctuations/oscillations until after the weight was dropped, very little change when a man went down the stairs and stood at the end. That indicates the 8:10-12 timeframe is the sweet spot.

The winds were not known at the 8:10-12 location and time. Robert99 and (Ulis) are incorrect in asserting as fact the winds were from the SW at that time... The data is not precise, it is averaged over an hour and using Portland as a proxy is a stretch, it is too far from the 8:10-12 area. The fact is, based on other wind data the winds were shifting in the area around that time from SE to SW..

The best we can say is the winds were from SE to SW at the 8:10-12 time along the FP. You cannot say as a fact the winds were from the SW at that time/location, there is no data that shows that. Even the FBI used Portland and Salem data hourly averages as a proxy...  it is just not precise enough.

Here is the Portland wind data average between 8 - 9... note elevation is virtually the same direction as the ground.

Portland and Salem was used as an "ESTIMATE".. 

wind2a.jpeg.faac297ca543b9ffd5c594b85e081a06.jpeg

FlyJack,

You need to read your own post above.  First, note that the FBI post does not include any winds aloft data above 7000 feet and that the airliner was at 10,000 feet when it was in the Portland area.  Second, everything in the FBI post indicates that the wind was from the southwest, which is 225 degrees, to 235 degrees which is between the southwest and west-southwest.

Both the forecast winds aloft by the National Weather Service and the measured winds aloft from the radiosonde data indicate that the winds were from the southwest (225 degrees) at 10,000 feet when the airliner was in the Portland area.  Time averaged winds don't mean anything in this context.

Didn't I recommend to you several years ago that you go the the FAA web page and download their manual on aviation weather?  If you had done that, you wouldn't be making these claims.

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Anyone else read that new D. B. Cooper story on the forum? It's interesting but to me it seems to be trying a little too hard to check every box. Sounds fabricated or at the very least overly indulgent with some of the details to me. I think if any of the story can be verified though it might be worth a closer look.

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(edited)
8 hours ago, Robert99 said:

FlyJack,

You need to read your own post above.  First, note that the FBI post does not include any winds aloft data above 7000 feet and that the airliner was at 10,000 feet when it was in the Portland area.  Second, everything in the FBI post indicates that the wind was from the southwest, which is 225 degrees, to 235 degrees which is between the southwest and west-southwest.

Both the forecast winds aloft by the National Weather Service and the measured winds aloft from the radiosonde data indicate that the winds were from the southwest (225 degrees) at 10,000 feet when the airliner was in the Portland area.  Time averaged winds don't mean anything in this context.

Didn't I recommend to you several years ago that you go the the FAA web page and download their manual on aviation weather?  If you had done that, you wouldn't be making these claims.

Clearly, you are confused,,,

That is the data the FBI used to ESTIMATE winds for the Woodland area.. that data is averaged over an hour 8-9 and far from the 8:10/12 LZ.. Therefore, the data may be accurate for Portland/Salem but not when it is applied to the 8:10/12 LZ. There is no data for the LZ.

I am not making the claim, the FBI says right in that document how they came up with the SW wind estimate. My point is only that it is an estimate (proxy) and not a fact because the Portland/Salem data THEY used is averaged over an hour and too far from the 8:10/12 location..

You have been asked over and over FOR YEARS bay many people to come up with accurate wind data for the FBI jump location and you never have. You point to TK's wind data, it is less accurate for the LZ location than the FBI PROXY.

You just fail to understand the source of the SW wind claim and that it is a (poor) estimate for the 8:10/12 LZ.

All we can really say is that the wind was shifting between SE and SW around the 8:10/12 time and location.... even the FBI questioned the SW wind direction accuracy for the LZ.

This is not disputable. They state it right there. ESTIMATE

Edited by FLYJACK

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6 hours ago, Coopericane said:

Anyone else read that new D. B. Cooper story on the forum? It's interesting but to me it seems to be trying a little too hard to check every box. Sounds fabricated or at the very least overly indulgent with some of the details to me. I think if any of the story can be verified though it might be worth a closer look.

Could you please summarize it for us?

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1 hour ago, Andrade1812 said:

Could you please summarize it for us?

Oh yeah... so this woman is claiming that Cooper is alive and well and living in Skagit County, WA. 9 years ago Cooper and his friend (nicknamed "Dan" and "Jesse" respectively) came into her and her husband's lives, the two men were gold miners apparently.

They spend a good amount of time getting to know each other, apparently "Dan" likes bourbon and soda just like Cooper did, he also says "no funny stuff" all the time like Cooper wrote in his note to Florence. "Dan" has ties to Canada, Mexico and California and a slight Canadian accent. Both men are very polite and call others "sir" and/or "sirs" frequently.

Eventually this woman's husband shows her a photo of Dan (younger presumably?) and a sketch of Cooper and the resemblance is chilling. There's supposedly a note from Dan on the back taking responsibility for the hijacking. Her husband also says that "Dan" confessed to him.

The woman later takes the photograph to the local police department to see what they think. A detective agrees with her that he is Cooper and she gives up his real name to him so he can go to the FBI with this information.

A few months later "Dan" and "Jesse" come back to the family's home with some interesting rocks from mining. They're "titanium" rocks and at this time the woman's daughter lets her know that titanium was found on Cooper's tie!

Finally the FBI returns the photograph to the police department and closes the case with no resolution. But when it is returned to the woman, it's instead a generic photograph of McCoy. The original has gone missing or is still in possession of the FBI, and they are not willing to return it.

The last time she saw Dan and Jesse was two years ago. They had a cow on their property called Alice, and when she inquired about the name Dan said that she was named after a flight attendant. Hmm...

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32 minutes ago, Coopericane said:

Oh yeah... so this woman is claiming that Cooper is alive and well and living in Skagit County, WA. 9 years ago Cooper and his friend (nicknamed "Dan" and "Jesse" respectively) came into her and her husband's lives, the two men were gold miners apparently.

They spend a good amount of time getting to know each other, apparently "Dan" likes bourbon and soda just like Cooper did, he also says "no funny stuff" all the time like Cooper wrote in his note to Florence. "Dan" has ties to Canada, Mexico and California and a slight Canadian accent. Both men are very polite and call others "sir" and/or "sirs" frequently.

Eventually this woman's husband shows her a photo of Dan (younger presumably?) and a sketch of Cooper and the resemblance is chilling. There's supposedly a note from Dan on the back taking responsibility for the hijacking. Her husband also says that "Dan" confessed to him.

The woman later takes the photograph to the local police department to see what they think. A detective agrees with her that he is Cooper and she gives up his real name to him so he can go to the FBI with this information.

A few months later "Dan" and "Jesse" come back to the family's home with some interesting rocks from mining. They're "titanium" rocks and at this time the woman's daughter lets her know that titanium was found on Cooper's tie!

Finally the FBI returns the photograph to the police department and closes the case with no resolution. But when it is returned to the woman, it's instead a generic photograph of McCoy. The original has gone missing or is still in possession of the FBI, and they are not willing to return it.

The last time she saw Dan and Jesse was two years ago. They had a cow on their property called Alice, and when she inquired about the name Dan said that she was named after a flight attendant. Hmm...

On the same level as Ulis's Sheridan narrative..  without the cow..

 

Here, fluctuations at 8:11..

osc2.jpeg

osc3.jpeg

Edited by FLYJACK

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6 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

Clearly, you are confused,,,

That is the data the FBI used to ESTIMATE winds for the Woodland area.. that data is averaged over an hour 8-9 and far from the 8:10/12 LZ.. Therefore, the data may be accurate for Portland/Salem but not when it is applied to the 8:10/12 LZ. There is no data for the LZ.

I am not making the claim, the FBI says right in that document how they came up with the SW wind estimate. My point is only that it is an estimate (proxy) and not a fact because the Portland/Salem data THEY used is averaged over an hour and too far from the 8:10/12 location..

You have been asked over and over FOR YEARS bay many people to come up with accurate wind data for the FBI jump location and you never have. You point to TK's wind data, it is less accurate for the LZ location than the FBI PROXY.

You just fail to understand the source of the SW wind claim and that it is a (poor) estimate for the 8:10/12 LZ.

All we can really say is that the wind was shifting between SE and SW around the 8:10/12 time and location.... even the FBI questioned the SW wind direction accuracy for the LZ.

This is not disputable. They state it right there. ESTIMATE

FlyJack again, read the FBI page that you included with your original post.  THEY DO NOT INCLUDE ANY WIND DATA ABOVE 7,000 FEET!!!

The radiosonde wind data is not averaged over any period of time.  It is instantaneous values.

The National Weather Service forecast and the radiosonde data are the best information, and the only information, for the winds aloft at 10,000 feet in the Portland area at the time of the hijacking.

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35 minutes ago, Robert99 said:

FlyJack again, read the FBI page that you included with your original post.  THEY DO NOT INCLUDE ANY WIND DATA ABOVE 7,000 FEET!!!

The radiosonde wind data is not averaged over any period of time.  It is instantaneous values.

The National Weather Service forecast and the radiosonde data are the best information, and the only information, for the winds aloft at 10,000 feet in the Portland area at the time of the hijacking.

So what if they don't have data above 7,000 ft, that DATA is what the FBI used to ESTIMATE the wind for Cooper's jump. That is the point.

You don't have the radiosonde or any data for the 8:10/12 jump time and location.

You are making irrelevant statements and ignoring the issue.

 

It was ironic, when I pointed this out to Eric, he claimed the wind was accurate because the FBI used it.. to build his argument that the FBI got the FP wrong.. Then Eric mocked the idea that the wind could be slightly different 45 miles away (Placard find) and at a different time.

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12 hours ago, Coopericane said:

Anyone else read that new D. B. Cooper story on the forum?...  I think if any of the story can be verified though it might be worth a closer look.

She doesn't want to give the name of her 'Cooper', but it would be interesting if she gave the age, since she claims it was mistaken. Also, if she gave the name and contact of the 'detective' she claims to have talked to, that would at least verify that her suspicions are legit, however far-fetched they may be.

-----

A general note - This woman claims the 'other guy' was ground crew. That reported sighting of someone walking the roads that was mentioned a bit back included the possible 'Cooper' carrying a suitcase different than the 'bomb' case. Other reported stories that involve ground crew or cars/items stashed to aid in his getaway...

Unless Cooper had comfortable access to the door, as in the ability to be in the door and observe exactly where he was over the ground, unless there was good enough visibility for him to see the ground, unless he had communications with the pilots to give left/right corrections and direct control over the exact flight path and jump spot, unless he knew the winds and had a steerable chute, then his ability to land anywhere near a specific spot where there might be person(s) or items pre-stashed is nil.

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Cooper didn't close the airstairs after the "8:11" oscillations/fluctuations/pressure bump/burp/bobble/packet/conniption...

How do we know,, the airstair light in the cabin would have gone off after the 8:11 time..  the crew would have known.

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