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DB Cooper

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3 minutes ago, dudeman17 said:

Is there a picture of that? Like any parachute, that's likely a data panel that would list manufacturer, model number, date of manufacture, size, serial number. Some old rounds also had numbers at each line attachment point noting which gore or panel it was. Those would be single or double digit numbers. Those would be manufacture or repair reference points as to location on the canopy.

yup..

serial number 307551 and the date Feb. 21, 1946 are stamped on a parachute found in North Clark County, Wash. as seen in Seattle on Tuesday, March 25, 2008

 

9c46e6c0-0ae5-5d87-ab61-0a8d5e19fda9.image.jpg.30e401b210b835d3a975d9c83af1ac06.jpg

 

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On 3/14/2021 at 8:54 AM, FLYJACK said:

Thanks to people like Georger and Ulis I have publicly posted only about 20% of my research...

and I have so much stuff I forget what I have already done..

I went back in my files..

 

Palmer believed the fragments found at depth were deposited by digging actions..

I agree, that is most likely, the digging was sloppy and few frags were found.

 

I found a high resolution image of the fragment found by the FBI and with 5 digits from the serial number plus the letter G matched a Cooper bill.

G21056376B was the serial number for the larger bill fragment found by the FBI.

It is not in my TBAR bill number list but I have accumulated only 85 out of the roughly 285-300 bills in the three packets. If this bill number was not from the three packets the FBI would know as the FBI had the micro of bills in order.

This is not the hi res image.

tbarfragfound.jpeg.c5f8d4aaa06f85e52a719909c8623e39.jpeg

Georger is plagiarizing my comment,, 

If the serial number from the frag found at depth was not from the 3 packets found by Brian the FBI would know and have used it in their analysis.

But here is the dig spot,, I wasn't sure if these people were at the exact money find spot or somewhere else on the beach,, but I can confirm that the stick/stake is the money find spot. The branch on the tree behind matches the branch behind the reporter pointing to the money spot in her report. They changed the stick though.

This dig is chaos and supports Palmer assertion that the money frag found at depth was deposited during the excavation process..

and the money spot looks about 30 ft from the River. With a 10% slope that is only about 3 ft above the water level.

 

7ef96432-27ee-48af-acc7-c66bc2f0291d-AP_8002130345.jpg.d1e9b3a67499db4d5b69172766d4fc9d.jpg

moneyfindspot.jpeg.6a0f0221b37b244db0f7910033f26e90.jpeg

money spot stick,,, matches top image dig chaos...

tbarmonspot.jpeg.f0d820a35b62a886bc6eb5aeec249eb1.jpeg

 

The FBI had the original Recordak of the bills in physical order not numeric order.. the FBI bill list they released was reordered to be alphanumeric. 

This is an actual Recordak for the Cooper case displayed by the FBI. There were several.

filmrecordcooper.jpeg.381c179f0128e133266b5a4f1b7f3698.jpeg

Edited by FLYJACK

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(edited)
15 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

Georger is plagiarizing my comment,, 

If the serial number from the frag found at depth was not from the 3 packets found by Brian the FBI would know and have used it in their analysis.

But here is the dig spot,, I wasn't sure if these people were at the exact money find spot or somewhere else on the beach,, but I can confirm that the stick/stake is the money find spot. The branch on the tree behind matches the branch behind the reporter pointing to the money spot in her report. They changed the stick though.

This dig is chaos and supports Palmer assertion that the money frag found at depth was deposited during the excavation process..

and the money spot looks about 30 ft from the River. With a 10% slope that is only about 3 ft above the water level.

 

7ef96432-27ee-48af-acc7-c66bc2f0291d-AP_8002130345.jpg.d1e9b3a67499db4d5b69172766d4fc9d.jpg

Georger can't help himself, he has to lie again...

After being exposed for plagiarizing my comment he has to lie with a straw-man and ridicule...

Is said the dig image "SUPPORTS" Palmers assertion that the frag at depth was deposited by dig operations,,  based on the image, my statement is true.

Goerger lied and claimed "CERTIFIED" and "PROVES" which is an untrue claim that he then riducules.  This is what Georger does, he is a serial liar, a fraud, an intellectual lightweight who needs to lie... he has even manufactured case evidence.. NEVER EVER EVER TRUST ANYTHING GEORGER claims about the case itself or others. He is a few bills short of a currency packet.

 

georgerlies.jpeg.185300df4a1cd6708818293804324bb2.jpeg

 

Moving on to more important info,, Eric Ulis's TBAR theory busted.

I found some very good overhead images of the money spot. By measuring the pixels and comparing them to the 20 ft grid lines marked on TBAR. 

The money spot measures 34.8 feet from the River Feb 1980. The slope is 10%, that puts the money spot 3.5 feet above the water level. This confirms a previous estimate made from a profile image of TBAR.

Comparing the Satellite images the River looks to be the average level which is 2-4 ft.

3.5 ft plus 2-4 ft = 5.5-7.5 ft

So, the money spot is at the 5.5-7.5 ft level..  There were reports at the time that the money spot was at the high water line and recently underwater. These reports are consistent with money at a 5.5-7.5 ft level..

Eric claims as fact that ONLY the extreme floods of about 21 ft in June 1972 and June 1974 reached the money spot... he is 100% wrong. In fact, the June 1972 flood max level would have the put the money spot about 14-16 ft underwater. Eric is just a sloppy researcher and thinker, he also falsely claimed the placard was from inside NORJAK. 

The River level was frequently over the money spot.. 

I find it difficult to conceive of the money getting driven up to the surface and pushed onto the shore..

But, if the River level was well above the money spot, that spot would effectively be the bottom of the River where the money would have buoyancy and get pushed along the bottom by higher Spring water flow. 

Money goes into the Columbia as one bundle as it was given to Cooper in Spring gets pushed to its spot which is underwater at the time. It is possible more bundles went into the River but were never found.

That is it,, now, how did the money get into the Columbia in Spring when the water level was above about 5.5-7.5 ft....  stay tuned to this channel.

Edited by FLYJACK

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(edited)

Georger,, FAIL

The money was in BUNDLES... rubber banded bundles of packets.

You continue to prove that you do not understand the issue..

 

The first step is the hardest.. admit you have been wrong for a decade.

 

or keep lying to everyone and yourself.

 

Edited by FLYJACK

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(edited)

Here are some very interesting results of an analysis I have meant to do for while..

I took the flightpath and imported into Google Earth,, then measured the distance between the time marks in miles. 

The time marks on the map were manually drawn so they are not precise but comparing them may expose an anomaly. The plane did slow down when Cooper jumped. If a manual mark was off you'd expect that to correct on the next mark. 

When the plane slowed we would see a shorter distance between time marks.

We are comparing the averages and deviation. This is not precise but can expose a data outlier.

and it did,, there is a large deviation between 20:10 and 20:11 suggesting the plane slowed to about 166 knots/192 MPH vs the average. If one of those marks was just marked off then you'd expect the surrounding marks to compensate and they don't. 20:11 thru 20:13 are significantly below average. We are comparing the deviations, the relationships between the minute marks.

The 20:05 start minute mark may be off due to the missing 20:04 mark.

It is not proof but the data deviation appears to show Norjak slowed down significantly to about 166 knots/192 MPH between 20:10 and 20:11 while the average speed over the time series was 189 knots/217 MPH.

Note, the distance/speeds are not precise but measured the same way. We are looking at the deviation from the average. That deviation may be a poor manual mark or an actual change in speed. The 20:10 - 20:11 deviation suggests a speed reduction. If NORJAK slowed down in this time series it was between 20:10 - 20:11. 

The speed/distances are not precise but the distances were measured all using the same system so the deviation is what is the key.

IMO, the FBI got it right Cooper jumped between 20:10 and 20:11...

Norjaktimespeed.jpeg.d26996936c7628bf5ac393a1237e2c63.jpeg

Legal notice, Georger, Eric Ulis, Robert99 do not have permission to use this post or any information within, or copy this post in any form whatsoever. Everyone else has permission.

Copyright March 17, 2021

Edited by FLYJACK

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(edited)

Well. this still doesn't account for WHERE Cooper was when he jumped. Assume he jumped at 8:11. WHERE was that? Ariel? Battle Ground? Orchard? Portland? How can we know?

Also, FJ, the speed you have is far above that indicated on the DME which is 165 knots. 

Edited by Chaucer

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1 hour ago, Chaucer said:

Well. this still doesn't account for WHERE Cooper was when he jumped. Assume he jumped at 8:11. WHERE was that? Ariel? Battle Ground? Orchard? Portland? How can we know?

Also, FJ, the speed you have is far above that indicated on the DME which is 165 knots. 

Yes, the distances were measured in Google Earth, so the ground speed is not necessarily accurate because Google Earth isn't accurate. But since the measuring method was consistent for all segments the deviation from the average exposes the anomaly. The deviation tells you how far above or below the average that segment is. The 20:10 - 20:11 segment is the shortest relative to the others aka the slowest of all the segments.

We are comparing the minute segment lengths to each other, the shortest = slowest. 

It was always thought that the 20:10 - 20:11 segment appeared shorter based on visual, but the marks were made manually so an anomaly could be a marking error but checking the other surrounding segments that isn't the case. If an anomaly was created by a poorly placed mark the neighbouring plots would be seen to compensate, they don't.

Where exactly was the plane at 8:11.. My best guess is to take the 8:11 time on the map and go +/- 1 minute.

So, 8:10 - 8:12 on the map..  exactly where they thought he jumped.

 

Why do you believe the oscillations occurred before the jump?

Everything I have read and processed has Cooper jumping, the stairs go up and cause the pressure bump, effectively the first oscillation,, then the stairs oscillate until reaching their equilibrium. They are simultaneous but the oscillations continue until dissipation.

It matches the 20:11 time as well.

 

oscillations1.jpeg.0a12aaf5ed83518107c67def3d48107e.jpeg

Edited by FLYJACK

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7 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

Here are some very interesting results of an analysis I have meant to do for while..

I took the flightpath and imported into Google Earth,, then measured the distance between the time marks in miles. 

The time marks on the map were manually drawn so they are not precise but comparing them may expose an anomaly. The plane did slow down when Cooper jumped. If a manual mark was off you'd expect that to correct on the next mark. 

When the plane slowed we would see a shorter distance between time marks.

We are comparing the averages and deviation. This is not precise but can expose a data outlier.

and it did,, there is a large deviation between 20:10 and 20:11 suggesting the plane slowed to about 166 knots/192 MPH vs the average. If one of those marks was just marked off then you'd expect the surrounding marks to compensate and they don't. 20:11 thru 20:13 are significantly below average. We are comparing the deviations, the relationships between the minute marks.

The 20:05 start minute mark may be off due to the missing 20:04 mark.

It is not proof but the data deviation appears to show Norjak slowed down significantly to about 166 knots/192 MPH between 20:10 and 20:11 while the average speed over the time series was 189 knots/217 MPH.

Note, the distance/speeds are not precise but measured the same way. We are looking at the deviation from the average. That deviation may be a poor manual mark or an actual change in speed. The 20:10 - 20:11 deviation suggests a speed reduction. If NORJAK slowed down in this time series it was between 20:10 - 20:11. 

The speed/distances are not precise but the distances were measured all using the same system so the deviation is what is the key.

IMO, the FBI got it right Cooper jumped between 20:10 and 20:11...

Norjaktimespeed.jpeg.d26996936c7628bf5ac393a1237e2c63.jpeg

Legal notice, Georger, Eric Ulis, Robert99 do not have permission to use this post or any information within, or copy this post in any form whatsoever. Everyone else has permission.

Copyright March 17, 2021

I knew those guys would screw this up.. Didn't I explain it. Is this thing on?

Each segment was measured using the exact same method, those segments were converted to a speed which is not accurate because Google Earths tool measuring ground distance isn't entirely accurate, it might be out 10%. It doesn't matter as long as all segments were measured using the same tool they are all out the same %. We can compare them.

Those speeds represent a ratio, not the actual speed, a proxy to compare to each other.

The significance here is the deviation from the proxy not the proxy/speed. I could have left the speed data off entirely and used distance only, the result would be the same, a significant shorter deviation at 20:10 - 20:11.

If the plane was travelling at the same speed the entire time you'd expect the segments to be very close, but when the plane slows down you get a shorter segment, that is what we have..

 

 

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(edited)
17 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

Here are some very interesting results of an analysis I have meant to do for while..

I took the flightpath and imported into Google Earth,, then measured the distance between the time marks in miles. 

The time marks on the map were manually drawn so they are not precise but comparing them may expose an anomaly. The plane did slow down when Cooper jumped. If a manual mark was off you'd expect that to correct on the next mark. 

When the plane slowed we would see a shorter distance between time marks.

We are comparing the averages and deviation. This is not precise but can expose a data outlier.

and it did,, there is a large deviation between 20:10 and 20:11 suggesting the plane slowed to about 166 knots/192 MPH vs the average. If one of those marks was just marked off then you'd expect the surrounding marks to compensate and they don't. 20:11 thru 20:13 are significantly below average. We are comparing the deviations, the relationships between the minute marks.

The 20:05 start minute mark may be off due to the missing 20:04 mark.

It is not proof but the data deviation appears to show Norjak slowed down significantly to about 166 knots/192 MPH between 20:10 and 20:11 while the average speed over the time series was 189 knots/217 MPH.

Note, the distance/speeds are not precise but measured the same way. We are looking at the deviation from the average. That deviation may be a poor manual mark or an actual change in speed. The 20:10 - 20:11 deviation suggests a speed reduction. If NORJAK slowed down in this time series it was between 20:10 - 20:11. 

The speed/distances are not precise but the distances were measured all using the same system so the deviation is what is the key.

IMO, the FBI got it right Cooper jumped between 20:10 and 20:11...

Norjaktimespeed.jpeg.d26996936c7628bf5ac393a1237e2c63.jpeg

Legal notice, Georger, Eric Ulis, Robert99 do not have permission to use this post or any information within, or copy this post in any form whatsoever. Everyone else has permission.

Copyright March 17, 2021

I checked the Google Earth measuring tool vs known distances and it is actually quite accurate.. better than I thought. I wasn't even going to convert and show ground speed in the analysis as it wasn't relevant. I added it just to see..

The measurement is ground distance in miles per marked segment minute * 60 = X MPH converted to knots.

NORJAK speed was reported to have been lowered to 150 kn IAS..  which can be up to 20% below true airspeed.

True airspeed and wind/angle can calculate ground speed.

A 150 IAS into a wind could be about 166 ground speed.

The ground speed calculations here are probably fairly accurate, however irrelevant here. These ground speeds reflect the map markings not NORJAK's true speed.. DO NOT CONFLATE THESE SPEEDS WITH NORJAK'S IAS or TAS.

The minute marks on the map were by hand and not 100% accurate, distances between the minute marks will be off slightly also reflected in the a slight ground speed error. The exercise here was not to calculate NORJAK's ground speed but to ID any large deviation aka shorter segment/lower ground speed which indicates either a gross marking error or the plane slowing down.

Since a gross marking error would have to be compensated for in adjacent segments that can be ruled out.

The outlier identified here is the 20:10 - 2:11 time period indicating NORJAK slowed down substantially and that timeframe is supported by other evidence.

 

Due to the TBAR money find location and lack of a case resolution everyone wants to change the evidence..  

The evidence overwhelmingly supports a 20:10 - 20:11 jump time. 

 

Now, how did the TBAR money get into the Columbia R in Spring....

 

 

Edited by FLYJACK

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14 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

Why do you believe the oscillations occurred before the jump?

Everything I have read and processed has Cooper jumping, the stairs go up and cause the pressure bump, effectively the first oscillation,, then the stairs oscillate until reaching their equilibrium. They are simultaneous but the oscillations continue until dissipation.

It matches the 20:11 time as well.

 

 

The confusion between the oscillations and the pressure bump has been ongoing with this case for years - probably from the beginning.

The oscillations were an ongoing event. The occurred over a period of two or three minutes. This is likely Cooper slowly walking out on to the aftstairs. This is when the crew says "He must be doing something with the stairs."

The pressure bump was a one time event that ended the oscillations. This was Cooper jumping from the aircraft.

The oscillations are well-documented as occurring between 8:10 and 8:12. Conversely, the "pressure bump" is not mentioned and no time is given. We have to assume that it occurred AFTER the oscillations - 8:13 or later. Rataczak said it happened 5 to 10 minutes after last contact at 8:05. He later told Carr it was 10 to 15 minutes after last contact. Meanwhile, Anderson is on record stating that when the pressure bump occurred, they discussed it among the crew about what it was and what to do before they informed the NWO about it. After being informed by the crew, Sonderlind did his best estimate and put the time at 8:13. 

So, again, the oscillations happened for several minutes and ended with the pressure bump. We know when the oscillations begin, but we do not know how long they last nor do we know the exact time of the pressure bump. 

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4 minutes ago, Chaucer said:

The confusion between the oscillations and the pressure bump has been ongoing with this case for years - probably from the beginning.

The oscillations were an ongoing event. The occurred over a period of two or three minutes. This is likely Cooper slowly walking out on to the aftstairs. This is when the crew says "He must be doing something with the stairs."

The pressure bump was a one time event that ended the oscillations. This was Cooper jumping from the aircraft.

The oscillations are well-documented as occurring between 8:10 and 8:12. Conversely, the "pressure bump" is not mentioned and no time is given. We have to assume that it occurred AFTER the oscillations - 8:13 or later. Rataczak said it happened 5 to 10 minutes after last contact at 8:05. He later told Carr it was 10 to 15 minutes after last contact. Meanwhile, Anderson is on record stating that when the pressure bump occurred, they discussed it among the crew about what it was and what to do before they informed the NWO about it. After being informed by the crew, Sonderlind did his best estimate and put the time at 8:13. 

So, again, the oscillations happened for several minutes and ended with the pressure bump. We know when the oscillations begin, but we do not know how long they last nor do we know the exact time of the pressure bump. 

Yes, there has been confusion but I still don't see your argument.

Rat is throwing out an estimate decades later.. that isn't a literal fact.

 

Logically, it makes sense that the oscillations continued after the pressure bump not before.

Cooper going down the airstairs might cause some slight action if any but little compared to the oscillations after jumping. The stairs wouldn't spring up and stop, they would swing..

"My ear plug came out (pressure bump first) and I uh, we're getting some oscillations.. (oscillations after)"

Oscillations caused by the airstairs closing after the unsub departed..

The evidence supports oscillations after Cooper jumped.

 

oscillations1.jpeg.0a12aaf5ed83518107c67def3d48107e.jpeg.5868c29279c1937dbfbc972124958909.jpeg

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(edited)

Yes, what the crew described as oscillations were fluctuations in the cabin pressure which they immediately assumed was Cooper  "attempting to do something with the airstairs". The oscillations were not a one time event. They happened over a period of time while Cooper made his way down the stairs.

Then, he jumped and when he did it caused a pressure bump which was noticeably different from the oscillations they had experienced immediately before. . 

In this file, the FBI again confuses the oscillations with the pressure bump. The oscillations were not caused by the airstairs slamming back up. The pressure bump was the result of the airstairs slamming back up.

The oscillations were occurring at 8:11 and continued until 8:12 (maybe longer; we don't know). But at some time after 8:12, Cooper jumped and the crew experienced the pressure bump. 

Rataczak also states in the 302s that "they had not yet reached Portland Proper but were definitely in the suburbs or immediate vicinity." when the pressure bump occurred. That would have to be later than 8:10 or 8:11. No one is going to describe the Ariel area as the suburbs of Portland or in the "immediate vicinity" of Portland. They would have to be closer to Vancouver.

Edited by Chaucer

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29 minutes ago, Chaucer said:

Yes, what the crew described as oscillations were fluctuations in the cabin pressure which they immediately assumed was Cooper  "attempting to do something with the airstairs". The oscillations were not a one time event. They happened over a period of time while Cooper made his way down the stairs.

Then, he jumped and when he did it caused a pressure bump which was noticeably different from the oscillations they had experienced immediately before. . 

In this file, the FBI again confuses the oscillations with the pressure bump. The oscillations were not caused by the airstairs slamming back up. The pressure bump was the result of the airstairs slamming back up.

The oscillations were occurring at 8:11 and continued until 8:12 (maybe longer; we don't know). But at some time after 8:12, Cooper jumped and the crew experienced the pressure bump. 

Rataczak also states in the 302s that "they had not yet reached Portland Proper but were definitely in the suburbs or immediate vicinity." when the pressure bump occurred. That would have to be later than 8:10 or 8:11. No one is going to describe the Ariel area as the suburbs of Portland or in the "immediate vicinity" of Portland. They would have to be closer to Vancouver.

"The oscillations were not a one time event. They happened over a period of time while Cooper made his way down the stairs."
 

How do you know that?

Edited by FLYJACK

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Just now, FLYJACK said:

"The oscillations were not a one time event. They happened over a period of time while Cooper made his way down the stairs."
 

Now do you know that?

Because that is how the crew described them. They assumed the oscillations were caused by Cooper "attempting to do something with the airstairs". Then the pressure bump occurred which we now know is Cooper jumping. Logically, one would conclude that Cooper climbing out on to the stairs caused the oscillations before he jumped.

No where does it say, "Wow, we just experienced a significant pressure bump and now we are getting oscillations." Quite the contrary. It says, "We are getting oscillations." and then no mention of the pressure bump. 

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1 minute ago, RobertMBlevins said:

It is only 21 and a half miles on the freeway between Woodland and Vancouver. This is approximately the same distance as the crow flies between Ariel and the Columbia River. That is about seven minutes worth of flying time. With the jet going a mile every twenty seconds or so, this makes it difficult to pin down an exact jump point. Going on changes in the speed of the aircraft seems like the most sensible way to determine that point. 

Since the pilots were already flying 'dirty' aka lower speed and flaps down, and burning fuel at a furious rate, it is unlikely they would arbitrarily decide to slow the aircraft any further on their own, for fear of possibly stalling the aircraft. A stall recovery from a mere 7,600 to 10,000 feet (depends which story you believe on the altitude) would be almost impossible in a 727. You would need a lot more altitude than that to recover, I would think. 

So if the aircraft suddenly slows for reasons other than the pilots dropping the throttles down...you have to assume this was caused by an outside force. And that force would be Cooper making the stairs go down with his weight, increasing the drag on the aircraft substantially. Once the speed begins to increase and never really drops again...you could safely assume Cooper had jumped. This scenario fits perfectly the idea that Cooper spent 810-812 moving down the stairs and finally leaping from the back. Cooper guy '377' (Mark M) has speculated that Cooper may have just pulled the ripcord at the bottom of the stairs and let the chute 'squid' out behind him, inflate, and pull him right off the stairs, which he also says would work. The opening shock would not be bad, he said. He should know, he's done more jumps than anyone else in the Cooper community, and has been for decades. I tend to agree with this idea because Cooper did not have a working reserve...and he would be trusting the FBI with the one chute he had to use. Plus...if it didn't open or something, he could go back up and put on the other chute, instead of trusting to a freefall with an FBI-provided parachute. Or...maybe he did just jump and trust it. 

The only problem with this is that the pressure bump didn't occur between 8:10 and 8:12 because that is when the oscillations were occurring. Perhaps the crew felt the oscillations and slowed the aircraft, but regardless, Cooper couldn't have jumped any time before 8:13

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14 minutes ago, Chaucer said:

Because that is how the crew described them. They assumed the oscillations were caused by Cooper "attempting to do something with the airstairs". Then the pressure bump occurred which we now know is Cooper jumping. Logically, one would conclude that Cooper climbing out on to the stairs caused the oscillations before he jumped.

No where does it say, "Wow, we just experienced a significant pressure bump and now we are getting oscillations." Quite the contrary. It says, "We are getting oscillations." and then no mention of the pressure bump. 

That isn't true the doc I posted referenced the pressure bump felt then oscillations..

"My ear plug came out (pressure bump first) and I uh, we're getting some oscillations.. (oscillations after)"

I don't agree with your assumptions... 

We have reports of oscillations and a pressure bump, nowhere is there anything suggesting the pressure bump occurred after the oscillations.

Edited by FLYJACK

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6 minutes ago, FLYJACK said:

That isn't true the doc I posted referenced the pressure bump felt then oscillations..

"My ear plug came out (pressure bump first) and I uh, we're getting some oscillations.. (oscillations after)"

I don't agree with your assumptions... 

We have reports of oscillations and a pressure bump, nowhere is there anything suggesting the pressure bump occurred after the oscillations.

I don't think the "increase in cabin pressure" and the pressure bump are the same thing. I think the increase in cabin pressure described in the doc is part of the ongoing oscillations. 

Also, all crew statements that I am aware of state that the pressure bump came after the oscillations and that the oscillations ended with the pressure bump. 

I also don't recall anything about oscillations occurring after the pressure bump for the sled test either.

Edited by Chaucer

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10 minutes ago, Chaucer said:

The only problem with this is that the pressure bump didn't occur between 8:10 and 8:12 because that is when the oscillations were occurring. Perhaps the crew felt the oscillations and slowed the aircraft, but regardless, Cooper couldn't have jumped any time before 8:13

How do you know the pressure bump didn't occur between 8:10 and 8:12? 

 

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3 minutes ago, Chaucer said:

I don't think the "increase in cabin pressure" and the pressure bump are the same thing. I think the increase in cabin pressure described in the doc is part of the ongoing oscillations. 

Also, all crew statements that I am aware of state that the pressure bump came after the oscillations and that the oscillations ended with the pressure bump. 

I also don't recall anything about oscillations occurring after the pressure bump for the sled test either.

Sure it is that was when the instruments registered it.

There was confusion because they were simultaneous, the pressure bump was the first oscillation.

Edited by FLYJACK

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1 minute ago, FLYJACK said:

How do you know the pressure bump didn't occur between 8:10 and 8:12? 

 

Because that is when the oscillations were occurring. The pressure bump happened after the oscillations. If the oscillations were ongoing at 8:12 then the pressure bump had to have occurred after 8:12. 

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6 minutes ago, RobertMBlevins said:

'Oscillations' probably refers to the idea that the flight characteristics of the 727 were changed when Cooper first opened the rear door. Rataczak has said that the stairs would only drop 24-36 inches in flight, because airflow would hold them up to that point...that this was the natural spot they would fall to after opening in flight. This opening of the door in flight could have caused some vibrations up front. You can't make those kind of radical changes to a flight configuration and expect that nothing will happen. 

The so-called pressure bump most likely was a result of the stairs snapping back up almost closed, and then dropping back to the 'natural' point that Rataczak described. They pretty much figured this out during the sled test. 

Right, but not only opening the door, but also lowering the stairs and climbing out on them in-flight would also cause changes that would have been felt by the crew.  And the oscillations were continuing between 8:10 and 8:12; therefore, the "pressure bump" had to have occurred after 8:12. 

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