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58 minutes ago, Jay Ritchie said:

Having read your book I bought a copy of the Gunther book - both great reads. I must re-read yours to check but was wondering if anyone has any support to indicate that Gunther's book was not just a work of fiction?

 

He refers to placing an add in a newspaper in around 1972 - is there a way to check that the ad was made as stated? He also references other people getting letters from 'DB Cooper', and the letter being passed to the FBI. Are these statement verifiable?

The ad was definitely placed in the Village Voice Newspaper. I have a copy of the microfiche.  He supposedly wrote letters to at least two other people, those have not been verified, although some have tried.  Ralph Himmelsbach definitely knows who Gunther was, and commented on him just before his death a few months ago.

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It would be interesting if Gunther was hoodwinked by someone who knew about the FBI investigation of a Cooper lookalike at Elsinore in Aug of 1971, considering no one in the Cooper world knew about that investigation until the FOIA documents started being released.

And there's still the time traveling Tom Kaye results to account for as well.

But I get it, there is a financial consideration here, as we both have books out there and being real investigators (i.e. open minded) of the case could endanger that income.

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On 11/26/2008 at 5:40 PM, Ckret said:


None of the prints lifted in the original sweep of the plane were of value. When it was discovered that none of the lifts could be used, agents were asked to go back on the plane and try again. The prints recovered that are of value came from a magazine found in the row of seats Cooper was sitting.

Fast forward to 37 years; I cannot find any reference to Cooper reading a magazine. Agents did the best they could with what they had at the time. Whether that effort recovered Cooper’s prints I don’t know, but (Buzzard) if you send me the originals instead of copies I’ll run the comparisons.

As far as “buddies” go on this thread, I can tell you this, no one gives me passage here. I think it may have more to do with you having just joined the conversation in October, having 6 post and taking me to task without provocation. But then again I suspect we go back a ways, don’t we.

Regardless, apology accepted; you seem to have much to say, I look forward to your contribution.

PS Orlando

CKRET aka FBI agent Carr..

"None of the prints lifted in the original sweep of the plane were of value. When it was discovered that none of the lifts could be used, agents were asked to go back on the plane and try again. The prints recovered that are of value came from a magazine found in the row of seats Cooper was sitting."

"I cannot find any reference to Cooper reading a magazine."

 

"According to Ann Dietrich of the FBI’s Seattle field office, the FBIis testing a partial fingerprint against one from the in-flight magazine agents found in front of Cooper’s seat. I’ve seen this magazine in the files, and there were partial prints located all over it — presumably from different passengers. The flight made four stops that day, before picking Cooper up in Portland. So how does the Bureau know which partial print is Cooper’s?"

 

The prints were sketchy.. The FBI does not know if they were Cooper's.

 

Here they describe finding part of magazine.. and getting prints..

Is this (part) another magazine? Not the in-flight one from the seat back.

 

partsofmagazine.jpeg.e349ac2d6d84da48f2d12313345d704d.jpeg

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It isn't meh,,, why do you even respond.


This is important, it goes to the probability that the prints were from Cooper.

The prints used to compare to suspects were from a magazine that nobody saw Cooper use. AND, there were prints from a partial magazine noted, was that the same one from the back of the seat or a different one?

The first sweep of the plane found no prints of value.

It looks like they may not have had Cooper's prints at all.

printsnovalue.jpeg.8151b6886605d0634e7563939dbd6bf1.jpeg

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7 hours ago, RobertMBlevins said:

My point was...even if they HAD viable prints...what the heck do you compare them to for identification? There are only a limited number of possibilities. 

1) Live suspect. The best way, of course. But this possibility becomes more remote with each passing year. Cooper was a smoker after all, and would be about 90 or so today. At least. 

2) Run your latents through the FBI's print database. Trouble is...if Cooper doesn't have a criminal record, he won't be found in that database anyway. And many of the print records get destroyed each year, either from submitted death reports from coroners, or other channels. So if Cooper is dead, he probably isn't in there anyway.

3) Try having the military records guys do comparisons. But if Cooper was in the military prior to 1973, chances are greater than not his fingerprints were destroyed in the Big Bad 1973 St Louis fire.

4) And if it's true that the FBI has ZERO viable prints...why are we discussing this print stuff anyway?  On the other hand...if they DID have a few viable prints...they would have run them multiple times over the years, and if Cooper was in their print files, they would have discovered who he was by now. My guess is he was never arrested, and the crime he pulled was a one-off deal. If he HAD an extensive criminal record, or even a moderate one, it is likely (also) they would have figured out who he was at some point, even without prints.

It's occurred to me that if Cooper did NOT have a criminal record, but WAS in the military, he probably was happy reading stories about that 1973 military records fire. "Yeah, baby. Ha ha..." ('They'll never catch me NOW...')

Pictures below of the fire, which raged for days. Much restoration of records was done using whatever was left after the fire, plus SOME records (like company records) to establish the basic facts on whether you were in the military or not. For vets benefits, etc. But your print set was located in only ONE place...your main record in St Louis. 

One caveat:  It IS strange that the FBI found no latents in the rear airstairs area. Almost as if Cooper had a pair of gloves in that bag he carried. And maybe...he lost them on the way down. That would explain why (possibly) a pair of gloves came up missing in that store robbery the night of the hijacking. 

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The point is they were using unknown prints from a magazine Cooper was never seen using to eliminate suspects..  Some have claimed they never had Cooper's prints, I see why.

and that Cooper didn't leave prints in the areas of the plane you'd expect to find them. No prints on the rear stair rail indicates gloves. Alice? said no gloves but she left in Seattle and I don't think Tina ever said that.

The FBI at one point claimed they didn't have the evidence and the case was only solved if Cooper co-operated.

If they didn't have Cooper's prints, how does the FBI put a suspect on the plane pre DNA.

 

And what is the deal with the partial magazine? Was that the same one or a different one?

 

Cooper may have used the tie to wipe for prints..

 

fingerprints19824.jpeg.daeae8095785328c34c53c7f0b80ece4.jpeg

Edited by FLYJACK

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On 12/2/2020 at 9:39 PM, RobertMBlevins said:

I flat out don't believe Gunther's story, or else he was hoodwinked by someone and saw the opportunity to write a book about the whole thing and present it as truth. Himmelsbach has pointed out that some of the hijacking details presented by the so-called Cooper don't match the historical facts. 

Similar books have been done. And the most famous one was done by Clifford Irving, a guy who was caught at it but had a career similar to Max Gunther's. In other words, despite one possibly phony book, he had an otherwise pretty successful career...both before and after the hoax.  Once he got out of jail, he resumed his writing career and hardly missed a beat. 

If Gunther's book is a hoax, the reason he didn't get caught was because Cooper is not Howard Hughes, a real person who came forward and called the 'Autobiography of Howard Hughes' a phony. In Gunther's case, there was almost no chance he could be caught at it.

Irving, on the other hand, was betting that Hughes, since he had been completely reclusive for years, would not come forward, yet surprisingly, Hughes did. 

 

A bit off topic, but I highly recommend Irving's book on Hughes.  It's available on Amazon.  It's really good.  If it hadn't been fake, it would have won a Pulitzer.

It was well researched and enough of it was true that it fooled people who knew Hughes and his story well.  They had gotten access to (stole actually) a book being written by one of his disgruntled senior managers and used information in it.  However, you don't know which parts were true and which parts were made up.  Some of the stories were rumors that only the real Hughes would have known all the details, and he made up details to fill it in.  (Not unlike many with Cooper suspects they like).  For example, there is a story of Hughes meeting Ernest Hemingway.  It was an interesting interaction.  But, since Hemingway was long dead by the time Irving wrote the book, I suspect that story was all fiction.

 

Sorry for the aside.

 

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There were two books of matches...

Cooper had a book that ran out, Tina attempted to throw it into the ashtray and he recovered the empty pack..  that empty book he recovered had notes written on it. That suggests he took the matchbook because of the note not the potential prints.. 

He left the cigarette butts,, no prints were found.

Tina gave him the Sky Chef book to replace the empty book which he kept.

coopermatchbooknote.jpeg.fbed52a8e6661b8a2f07db710240f78d.jpeg

Edited by FLYJACK

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I have been saying this forever,,

COOPER's original demand was aft airstairs lowered inflight..

That is why he wanted to fly nonstop to Mex and that is why he wanted so much fuel..

When Reno was in play..  his plan changed, he wanted out earlier than he had planned. That means no ground accomplice, no specific landing spot,,, an ad hoc jump into an unknown area.

Cooper's LZ was NOT his original plan. If not then where,, IMO, MEXICO

more evidence,,, Harrison. Demands.. aft stair lowered in flight.

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Hard to read but it says aft stairs be extended after takeoff,, later changed..

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Edited by FLYJACK
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14 minutes ago, RobertMBlevins said:

You are trying to indicate Cooper REALLY wanted to go to Mexico. If he wanted to do that...why would he want the airstairs lowered hours before they could actually REACH Mexico. And Cooper was no fool. He had absolutely no intention of telling anyone hours in advance where he really wanted to go. They would be ready and waiting for him the moment he crossed the border. And the Federales would not only have confiscated the money eagerly, but they probably would have beat the shit out of him on his way to jail. 

Ask yourself WHY Cooper would want the airstairs lowered as soon as they were at altitude. 

Because he had no intention from the start of going to Mexico, or even to Reno for that matter. He was planning to bail not long after the stairs were lowered. He wanted no one to know when he jumped, or where. The only thing he didn't know, and didn't count on, was the aft airstair indicator on the Flight Engineer's panel. He probably didn't know it existed. And even if he did...he probably figured no one would know his exact jump point anyway. But he also didn't account for the rebound effect on the indicator light, or the pressure bump caused by him jumping off the stairs. 

Any place Cooper told them he wanted to actually GO....WAS A LIE. Unless he were stupid enough to really tell that information. And I don't think Cooper was stupid. 

Remember...Cooper started out in Portland on a flight going north to Seattle. From his comments, he obviously knew the Seattle area from the air. If he wasn't planning to jump between Portland and Seattle, it would make much more sense for him to hold the flight in Portland right on the ground before takeoff...right THERE...get his money and chutes...and THEN head south to Mexico. Why would he allow the flight to go to Seattle and get everything in Seattle? This makes no sense. His plan all along was simple. 

1) Board flight for Seattle because he wanted to go there for the money and the chutes. (EDIT: I will grant you that perhaps Cooper wanted to be in the air, and to give Seattle time to gather his requested money and chutes. And that's why he didn't hold the plane on the ground in Portland.)

2) Not reveal the truth on where he was going, to confuse a ground search or a lookout. 

3) Planned to jump about as quickly as the door could be opened. My theory is that he wanted to bail just south of Olympia, but was forced to remain a bit longer because of the difficulty in getting the stairs down. 

4) If Cooper really intended to go to Mexico, he wouldn't have lowered the stairs before they reached Reno. Even an idiot would know that another takeoff would be impossible after the airstairs dragged on the ground. 

You don't understand the issue.. He opened stairs early AFTER Reno was in play and his plan changed. Why is this so hard to understand.

 

Cooper plans to jump south of the US border, he demands no stops in the US, full fuel and aft stairs to be lowered inflight by the stew. 

The crew negotiates to land and refuel in Reno.

Cooper changes his plan and now wants stairs open on takeoff so he can jump ASAP before the plane lands in Reno.

Crew convinces Cooper to open stairs inflight, he still wants out ASAP... opens after takeoff and jumps after some trouble with the stairs.

 

Your claim that he wouldn't want the stairs opened hours before Mexico makes no sense. Cooper changed his plan after Reno was in play, get it... Prior to Reno, Mexico makes perfect sense..

 

1.) He wanted the plane in the air while his demands were being met. He is most vulnerable sitting on the ground.

2.) Cooper wanted Mex City OR anywhere in Mex no stopping in US.. that means somewhere S of the US border.

3.) He wanted out ASAP only after Reno stop was added. Why, he changed his demand from aft stairs opened inflight to open on takeoff. That change is a tell. 

4.) You have that wrong.. if Reno was never in play there was no reason to open stairs right away. He opened early when his plan changed because the plane was going to land in Reno and he didn't want to be on the plane when it landed..  that is when he is most vulnerable. 

 

Further, Cooper was not dressed for a PNW jump. There is no way Cooper makes a demand to go to Mex nonstop that he knows is impossible and would be rejected by the pilots.. The only possibility is that Cooper wanted and believed the plane to go to somewhere in Mex nonstop in US... when that was rejected he changed his demand and his jump plan.

The tell is the fact that Cooper changed his airstair demand when Reno was in play... if he wanted to jump in the PNW from the get go, there was no reason for it to change.

 

Initial demand, MEX nonstop in US,, he wants stairs opened inflight 

Reno in play,, he changes and wants stairs open on take off..  that indicates his jump plan changed.

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1 hour ago, RobertMBlevins said:

If he was planning on jumping in Mexico, I can think of a few places a lot better to jump early than over western Washington. Once the flight would have reached eastern Oregon, or even northern Nevada, it's pretty open country with far fewer trees to get in the way. As long as he's still in the USA, per the instructions from NWA's CEO, no one is really going to mess with him. He could still get fuel in Reno. The doors would remain closed. They could take off again. But Cooper immediately nixed all those ideas by wanting the stairs opened NOW. Seems strange, since he did have some time to consider options. Once the airstairs are opened, those options vanish. 

I dunno. This presentation you have forwarded that Cooper really wanted to go to Mexico as he told them is a little weak. Not impossible, but weak. He obviously knew the Seattle/Tacoma area from the air, and may have even driven to Portland FROM Seattle. He ends up IN Seattle. Once he gets over Mexico, the authorities would be well-prepared for him. The jet would be followed, on radar, reports from the crew, the transponder, more radar. With that many more hours for them to prepare, he wouldn't have had much of a chance of escaping. 

You are right about the unsuitable clothing, but there's no telling what he had on underneath that suit, or whatever was in the paper bag. I think telling them Mexico was the destination was simply a ploy on Cooper's part. When he agreed to Reno, all he did was narrow the search window a bit. It's an acceptable theory. I don't agree with it, but it isn't ridiculous either. 

Most of the hijackers who actually told the truth about their destinations were places they couldn't easily be extradited. Cuba, Algiers...and the Algiers hijacking those two actually switched jets along the way. (Cathy Kerkow and Roger Holder) Mexico, had they caught Cooper, would have sent him back to the USA almost immediately, if they didn't jail him for a while first.

It isn't weak, it is the preponderance of the evidence... your argument is the weak one. It requires assumptions.

To reject Mexico as a destination you have to assume Cooper was lying and engaged in a ruse.. that makes no sense.

It is not reasonable or rational to assume that Cooper knew his request to go to MEX nonstop in US was fake.. 

It just doesn't make sense that Cooper made a demand that he knew could not be achieved, would have to be rejected and renegotiated.

Therefore, Cooper believed and wanted the plane to fly nonstop to MEX..

Once you get that it all makes sense.

So, why? He didn't want to land anywhere in the US once he had the money and no passengers.. that would be a big risk. On the ground he could have been picked off by a sniper. He was vulnerable, especially if he had a fake bomb and no weapon.

If he wanted to jump ASAP from the get go, then he could have demanded to fly almost anywhere.. and wouldn't care if the plane landed somewhere in the US.

He specifically demanded no landing in the US FOR ANY REASON...

but the tell,,, he changed his demand once Reno was in play.

Once Cooper realized the plane was landing in Reno, he demanded aft stairs down on take off. Why the change,, he didn't want to be on the plane when it landed in Reno and jumping ASAP was his best option.

 

Other factors, He was Latin/Mexican.. He was not dressed for a jump in the PNW weather..

The evidence supports the Mex theory.

The argument against it requires assumptions to reject the evidence. A weaker position.

 

Mex is big place, he could have directed the plane and jumped anywhere, so he was not specific by stating Mex..

Cooper making those initial demands wanted to be out of US airspace and authorities.. it all changed when Reno was in play.

 

 

Edited by FLYJACK

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8 hours ago, RobertMBlevins said:

There is no evidence that Cooper was 'Latin or Mexican'. Even the best witnesses couldn't totally agree on his appearance, as well as some of the passenger witnesses. He may have been. But there is no proof of it. 

What I don't understand is how you figure that the FBI and the Justice Department were so dumb that you assume nobody in those organizations even CONSIDERED the idea that Hahneman and Cooper might be one and the same. Hahneman was caught doing a similar hijacking on the east coast just a few months after Cooper caper. Same MO. Money demands and parachutes. Going south of the border. Sound familiar? FBI probably thought so too.

But unlike Cooper and a calm demeanor, Hahneman was no-bullshit with the passengers, most of whom got a good look at him. Some of them were threatened by him with a gun, face to face. There is no mystery going with Hahneman. He was a known quantity for sure. His picture was published in newspapers nationwide. I don't think there's any doubt that after he jumped over Honduras, the FBI wondered if he was also Cooper. At least at first, anyway. But when he surrendered and was returned to the US to stand trial, no one even hinted that he might be Cooper. Why? 

Obviously, they dismissed him from that idea pretty quickly, for reasons unknown so far to everyone. I think it was one of two reasons, and more possibly BOTH. 

First, the Cooper witnesses themselves may have been consulted and given the FBI a flat-out no. He's not Cooper. And they would be using real pictures of Hahneman, not sketches of a suspect. 

Second, the FBI probably established his whereabouts around the dates of the hijacking and he had an alibi for the Cooper crime. You have not been able to do this yourself with Hahneman. Somehow, the FBI probably did. Witnesses, family testimony, work records perhaps. It's easier to do these things when you know exactly who you are holding in jail awaiting trial.

Don't you think also...somewhere along the way during his 12 years in the Federal pen...that they would have figured out he was also Cooper? Yet there isn't even a mention of him in the Cooper files. 

Just because Cooper told them to go to Mexico doesn't mean he actually planned to GO there. Maybe he just wanted them to have one hell of a search area...like half of the United States, for example. 

Lots of assumptions and complete inaccuracies packed in there..

Cooper was described universally as Latin/Mexican in features and appearance. To claim otherwise is dishonest.

As for Hahneman, you know virtually nothing about him and less about the FBI investigation.

You use weasel words like "obviously", "may have been" and "probably"...  to make claims of fact, amateur stuff. You make a lot of assumptions about things you have no knowledge of...

How do you know they dismissed him? you don't.

The Cooper case is not your average crime,, something is going on that is either a gross error or intentional to cause this to remain unsolved by authorities.  

The FBI admitted that they didn't have the evidence and needed Cooper to co-operate.. if Hahneman didn't co-operate then they couldn't put him on the plane. For his May '72 hijacking, he cut a deal, plead guilty to a reduced charge and didn't go to trial. He was out in 12 years..

The reason I started looking into Hahneman was because he fit the Cooper description perfectly and committed virtually the same crime but there was no info on why he was NOT Cooper, I mean ZERO.. that was bizarre. We have info on many weaker suspects...  He was labeled a copycat which was false, he planned it for almost a year pre-dating NORJAK... I found no info that eliminated Hahneman and more and more that matched.

 

My pet peeve with this case and the Cooper community in general is that people use ASSUMPTIONS to dismiss evidence or theories,,, that is poor analysis,, YOU USE FACTS, NOT ASSUMPTIONS.

If there is EVIDENCE that eliminates Hahneman I want to see it,, I have been looking and I haven't found it...

Regarding Hahneman, I have found very high level intervention and 100% false statements from the FBI..  either they were engaged in disinfo or grossly incompetent.

Don't give me BS assumptions. 

latinmexican.jpeg.a150342a3724dd32ac3ca0787e557de4.jpeg

Edited by FLYJACK
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Hey guys, what are some cons on Ted Braden? Seems like if you had to invent someone who checks all the boxes it would be him:

- Skydiving expert with almost 1,000 jumps under his belt 

- Fearless and described as having a death wish

- 44 years old, not very large, swarthy, from the Midwest 

- Had a criminal mind and the ingenuity to come up with the concept in the first place

- Angry about being underpaid while in the military and about the CIA blacklisting him from being an overseas mercenary 

- Almost certainly jumped from 727’s in Vietnam while serving in the SOG’s

- Intensely calm under pressure 

- smoker and drinker 

Would the only major con be that he wasn’t familiar (that we know of) with the area into which he jumped? Although would that really be an enormous detriment to a guy who had jumped into Laos, Cambodia, and North Vietnam? I’d think jumping into a pine forest would be less complicated than a triple canopy jungle.

You guys are the experts, is there a major con that I’m missing on Braden? He makes a hell of a lot more sense to me than just about every other “known” suspect. Someone talk me out of this.

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1 minute ago, RobertMBlevins said:

Okay...I did read your entire post carefully. You keep saying you haven't found anything that eliminates Hahneman. 

Well...how about something in the nature of evidence that actually POINTS to him as a suspect in the Cooper hijacking then? And I don't mean what he did for a living, or what he looks like. I mean stuff like witness testimony, physical evidence, or at least being able to place a guy from Pennsylvania in the Great Northwest around the time of the hijacking? Something in this nature...anything. You can't even say whether Hahneman had a valid alibi for 11/24/1971. And you can bet your bottom dollar on two things. Number one:  You can bet that the FBI wondered if Hahneman was Cooper as well. Similar MO. Six months later. Number two:  They're going to see if he IS. And they do that first by seeing if he had an alibi for the time of the Cooper hijacking. What you are missing is a core of information about all that. For some reason unknown to either of us, Hahneman is never mentioned as a potential suspect for Cooper. Why? I already gave the most likely reasons...either they were easily able to establish his true whereabouts on 11/24/71, or the witnesses were consulted and dismissed him as Cooper. Probably both. And this must have happened fairly quickly after his arrest. 

You have possibly a single witness that described Cooper as 'possibly Mexican-American'. Then the FBI says maybe they should go back and re-interview the witnesses. Maybe they did, but their wanted poster for him didn't change. They are still listing Cooper as Caucasian. 

The FBI could easily have put Hahneman on the plane. He pulled off his hijacking only six months or so AFTER Cooper. This is not like trying to match someone by witnesses years later. This is a few months later. A lineup, pictures of Hahneman shown to the witnesses, whose memories would be fresh and who were fully cooperating with the FBI. Either of those things would have done the job easily. The Cooper investigation was red hot at that time. They already had Hahneman in jail. And he didn't care if people recognized him or not...that was obvious from his interactions with the passengers. Everyone on board that aircraft he snatched got a good look at him and knew what the heck was going down. This is unlike Cooper, where most of the passengers didn't have a clue what was really happening. 

The idea that both Justice and the FBI were soooo dumb that they wouldn't be able to figure out Cooper and Hahneman were one and the same is just beyond belief. If he were Cooper, even if they weren't absolutely sure...they still would have brought him up for trial on the Cooper hijacking in order to solve both cases. They already had him dead to rights on the one he did. They could have just paraded in the Cooper witnesses and have them point to Hahneman. "Yes, that's the guy I saw on November 24," etc. And they would have...IF he were Cooper. This is not brain surgery, FJ. 

There is something else as well. The differences in demeanor and how each of those hijackings went down are strikingly different in nature. Cooper was well-mannered and polite, with a note of desperation here and there. Hahneman packed a gun and wasn't afraid to use it. All the passengers were scared out of their wits. He put a noose around the captain's neck as a safety measure when they switched planes. He forced the airline to bring him cartons of cigarettes as well as the money, and they weren't even the brand smoked by Cooper. The differences in their methods (Hahneman and Cooper) were like night and day. 

What about motivation? Who would be crazy enough to get away with one hijacking just a few months earlier, and then pull off another - much more violently - only a few months later. I've heard you say maybe that's because the money in the Cooper case was lost on the way down. But that doesn't explain how the money arrived at Tina Bar, which brings other problems when you start looking at Hahneman for the Cooper crime. 

You want to find out whether Hahneman and Cooper were one and the same guy? You need to see the FBI's files on Hahneman, and possibly the court transcripts from his trial. Your answers are in there as to why he was never charged for Cooper, or even mentioned in the Cooper files. In other words, the FBI and Justice know something that you don't know. 

 

Robert, you are a joke,,

I stated many times that I have FBI files and Hahneman did NOT go to trial,,

You keep repeating stuff I already posted.. you are wasting my time.

If you want to eliminate Hahneman, go ahead. I am not here to think for you.

 

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Your points are BS,,, you are just throwing out assumptions and strawman fallacies from ignorance.

I have no interest in getting bogged down in correcting you, over and over. It is nauseating.. How many times did I have to repeat that I have the files 5 or 6? I am not writing a book and don't want to discuss the massive amount of research I have with uninformed people. 

There is no upside.. 

Hahneman is the best Cooper suspect by a long shot, I have been trying to put him on the plane but that may be impossible for any suspect without access to Cooper's DNA.

 

You can't even admit Cooper was described as Latin/Mexican in appearance and features... you do need somebody to think for you.

Edited by FLYJACK

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You are completely clueless.. your comment is ignorant baseless nonsense. Your claims are just made up and false.

It isn't that I am unable to answer simple questions, I choose not to get into the details of my research with ignorant people. 

I have thousands of pieces of info on Hahneman, it would be a massive undertaking to explain it all properly... and I am just not interested.

If you (or others) want to reject Hahneman based on assumptions and from a position of ignorance that is your problem. In fact, I prefer it that way.

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12 hours ago, RobertMBlevins said:

Article from when Hahneman was sentenced. Sounds like he did speak to FBI agents, and didn't necessarily hide behind his lawyer. Wonder what he told them. 

HahnemanArticle.jpg.c256920c9df57a9685dbaa8df6ab8aac.jpg

Unless they had obvious evidence dismissing him as Cooper, you have to believe they questioned him about the Cooper hijacking. Even if he goes into denial, they had a number of ways to prove his guilt. This was only a few short months after the Cooper caper. 

You know, if you wanted to we could do a debate about all this at the Cooper Party next year. Despite an obvious lack of support for the event from your so-called 'experts' in Cooperland, we're not having any problems filling the available slots. Folks keep sending messages asking to at least be put on the email list. Truth is, you don't need 'Cooper Experts' for an event like this. When they held the parties in Ariel, 98% of the people who showed up were simply Cooper FANS. If I went on stage to give some serious talk on Cooper, people would be bored out of their minds. B) 

That's the target group anyway. Cooper FANS. People at Cooper parties aren't there to solve the case. They come to socialize and have fun related TO Cooper. The conventions are for the experts. 

When Hahneman was captured he talked a bit about his hijacking, but when he got back to the US and lawyered up he even told his lawyer not to talk in court. Why, Hahneman had a very high level connection that intervened in his case.. if they interviewed him about anything, he wasn't co-operating.

 

You're not really going to get context from newspaper articles.

The newspapers described him as aggressive and mean, that isn't reflected in the FBI files.. He engaged in small chatter, joked and let a stew go who was suffering from stress.

Hotel workers described him as polite..

The noose incident newpapers refer to has no context, what actually happened was the FBI feigned a mechanical problem with the plane. Cooper was given everything except the knapsack, he had it easy compared to Hahneman.

The FBI faked a mechanical problem and had snipers lined up,, Hahneman knew what they were up to and demanded a backup 727. He knew they had snipers ready to take him out so as they transferred planes he surrounded himself with the crew and held a gun in the back of the Captain.. the noose part was not confirmed by the FBI. I don't know if that was true or an exaggeration. 

I have reports from two FBI snipers, neither mentioned a noose.

Cooper never faced that type of situation. Hahneman's "aggressive" actions were caused by the FBI trying to take him out with snipers and faking a mechanical issue forcing him to walk across the tarmac to another plane.

Would Cooper have remained polite in the same situation?? don't think so.

The Hahneman hijacking details were very similar to the Cooper hijacking except for the use of the gun.. Hahneman also threatened to blow up the plane with a briefcase bomb. The big difference for Cooper was the crew didn't tell the passengers they were being hijacked. Cooper had it easier. For Hahneman the crew announced right away that the plane was hijacked and that elevated the tension and aggressiveness of some passengers on the plane.

So, the environments were quite different but many many details were consistent.

 

Cooper was described by witnesses as swarthy, Latin/Mexican in appearance, descent and features..  

That is undisputed and clear throughout the FBI files.. and that eliminates almost all the high profile Cooper suspects.

Edited by FLYJACK

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3 hours ago, ParrotheadVol said:

Fly, have you ever considered that at the time the FBI was possibly more interested in McCoy as Cooper and didn't give as much consideration to Hahneman? They were less than a month apart, right? McCoy first, then Hahneman a few weeks later.

Yes, they may have focussed more on McCoy but they did at least some investigation into Hanheman. They showed the sketch from his hijacking before he was id'd to a NORJAK witness and they said "not identical".. but like the Cooper sketch witnesses thought it wasn't perfect, the sketch was not identical to Hahneman.. I believe later they showed his pic to witnesses but redacted his name, so results are unknown. The problem with Hahneman is he has an unmemorable look, I have a dozen images of him and he looks like 3 different people as he gained/lost weight and changed his hair.. The sketch resembles him but isn't perfect.

Why would Hahneman be redacted? They only redact living people.. Hahneman died 30 years ago.

They also took prints from Hahneman's hijacked plane before he was id'd and compared to NORJAK prints with negative results. But like Cooper they weren't even sure they were Hahneman's prints.

I have no plans to publish anything, I loathe writing. Perhaps I can find somebody to pull together my material in a concise form.

 

here is what I can say..

Hahneman had connections in very very high places. There were interventions in his case.

The FBI claimed Hahneman returned from Vietnam in Jan 72,, that is 100% false and easily disproved. I don't know why they would say that, maybe they were given false info.. Witnesses have him returning  earlier. Hahneman fled to Honduras in Jan 72 to set up residency using an altered name and false birthdate claiming Honduran citizenship which he hadn't used for 30 years. He returned to the US to commit the May hijacking.

Also, I am chipping away at Hahneman's activities in Vietnam, he seemed to be both military and a contractor.. WW2, Korea and Vietnam. I can't figure out how that works in Vietnam.. He had security clearances and may have worked for the CIA but I can't crack that.. It is hard to get info for Vietnam.. his military records were destroyed in the fire. He moved all over the world working in sketchy places but spent the years before NORJAK in SE Asia.. He was a loner and rarely visited his family in even when he was back in the US.

Hahneman was diagnosed with terminal cancer in 1971 in Vietnam.. and his mother said that his time in Vietnam changed him..

E. Howard hunt was asked directly about Hahneman and the CIA coup in Guatemala during the Senate Hearing into the CIA activities... 

Reading between the lines.. (speculating) Hahneman did contract work for the CIA and maybe they covered up him being Cooper because the CIA was under the microscope in '72 and Hahneman's connections and knowledge would have made them look bad. Hahneman's high level contact cut a deal with the State Department. The FBI may not have been aware... the tell, there is nearly zero info on Hahneman's hijacking after the incident which is an amazing story itself and ZERO consideration that he may have been Cooper. It is as if he was completely ghosted.. by design. Labelling him a copycat was genius, nobody looked at him. However, he wasn't a copycat, according to US officials he had planned his hijacking for almost year, right after his '71 cancer diagnosis in Vietnam.

 

Edited by FLYJACK

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2 hours ago, RobertMBlevins said:

As far as pinning everything on the idea that Cooper was either Latin or Mexican, that's a stretch. Maybe he just had a good tan and people thought he was from south of the border. Witness descriptions and sketches are a tricky thing to go on.

 

The tan thing doesn't fly, no witness said a tan.. it was November.

They said Latin/Mexican/Indian appearance, features, descent and blood.. that isn't just a swarthy complexion. It is all through the FBI files, not some one off reference.

 

Edited by FLYJACK

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