DB Cooper

[Bookman Old Style 1]

2 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

They weren't loafers and the crew never called them loafers,, the term loafers came from Tina saying "not tie type shoes" loafers was added and the media ran with it.

Tina actual said "ankle length" that is not a loafer.

Everyone knows a packet is a group of 100 bills, and everyone knows an ankle length pebble grain shoe is NOT a loafer.

 

Thank you!  I should not have relied on a transcribed version.  Whoever did the transcription into a Word document in the "Vault" area of the other site missed one word and added another, transforming "not tie type shoes" to "not type shoes (loafers)."  That's very misleading.

[Coopy 2]

Not a personal attack...

I think there are some people on this board and on shutter's board that are making claims that border on fantasy.

Rare coincidences are all too common.

Here is an example...

I was interested in the DB Cooper case.  Then I find a recently discarded NB6 parachute at the landfill.  The NB6 container is soiled and covered with red dirt.  Red dirt like you find in Oregon.  The ripcord is missing.  It is the right age, pre-1971 manufactured.  The parachute had not been deployed.  Ok this is Cooper's parachute.  He pulled the ripcord, it did not open properly and he hit the ground.  All the boxes are checked.

Upon further non-bias observation....

First of all I live on the East coast, not a plus. There is red dirt where I live.  Yes it is a NB6 sage green container but the parachute is not white as Cossey describes.  The parachute has white in it and if I did not open the container all the way I would think the parachute was white because the pilot chute is what you see first peeking in the container.  In actuality, the parachute main canopy is a multi-color C-9 type 28 foot chute.

Looking at what eliminates my parachute leads me to believe that this is 100 percent not DB Cooper's parachute.

I wonder how many thousands of NB6 container type back packs were made pre-1971?

What are the chances of being interested in the DB Cooper case and finding a NB6 at the landfill?  Rare coincidences are all too common.

BTW....When i found the Parachute (it did not have a rip cord to hold it close) the elastic bands with hooks use to make the Container doors open quickly when the rip cord is pulled were actually pulled across to the opposite door to keep the container closed.

If Cossey was up to shenanigans and wanted DB Cooper to die he could have have pulled the elastic bands all the over to to the opposite container door to prevent the container doors from opening and pulling the ripcord would have done nothing to deploy the chute.

Edited May 18, 2020 by Coopy

[ParrotheadVol 70]

18 hours ago, RobertMBlevins said:

Coopy says in part:

Let's get two things straight here with the facts. 

First, LD Cooper was eliminated because the FBI couldn't find any viable DNA on the items sent to them via Marla Cooper.

Robert, this is not a fact. The FBI has never officially eliminated LD Cooper. If they have, please provide something that show this and I will gladly accept it. Back in late 2019, I made a post on this very topic. It can be found on page 2409, post #60204. But in the interest of convenience, I will paste it here for you:

 

I don't think LD is Cooper, but I also don't think the FBI ever officially said so either. Look, there's an old saying about how if you say something enough times, it becomes the truth. If you say LD and Sheridan were eliminated enough times, people will eventually accept it as fact, even if it isn't true - and for all I know, it may be true, I just haven't seen it if it is. But you will say that, and say it again and then somewhere down the line - a week, a month, maybe a year - but at some point, you will remind us all how Fred Gutt (?) said that Kenny boy had never been eliminated. That's called spin, and you're very good at it. I would assume that to be eliminated, one must first be investigated, but let's not get caught up in details. So, for future reference, LD and Sheridan were both investigated by the FBI and as far as we can tell have never been officially eliminated as suspects even though the case is pretty much closed and no one is being looked at any longer. I'm sure there are plenty of others that we could say the same about. Even though the FBI is most certainly aware of Kenny Christiansen, they never bothered to investigate him and obviously did not consider him a viable suspect. Again, unless there is something there that we are unaware of.

That Robert, is my reasoning for pointing these things out. It isn't because I think good ol' uncle LD is DB Cooper. It's just because I like to keep the facts straight and that isn't always easy here in Coppertown is it?

Pretty simple, right?

[ParrotheadVol 70]

Robert, nowhere in the NPR story does it say that LD Cooper was dismissed as a suspect. That is my point. You keep saying he has been, when in fact he hasn't been. There is a difference between someone being eliminated from being the hijacker and someone not being proven to be the hijacker. What you are doing here is lying, plain and simple. You know the truth, and choose to say something in contrast with the truth. That is a lie. 

 

[FLYJACK 654]

Here is the Heisson store,, next to the tracks.

https://www.google.com/maps/@45.824581,-122.4917132,3a,75y,322.56h,78.51t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1swiUKb2i4JGXvTN165pkMyw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

 

 

A parachute was found along the East Fork Lewis between Heisson bridge and Lucia falls.. Heisson bridge is 0.6 mile N of Heisson store and the rail tracks follow the river.

East Fork Lewis flows to the Columbia R. downstream of TBAR. The 1976/77 Sauvie Island project comes into play.

The FBI rejected the chute because it was orange and white and Cossey said it the chute Cooper took was white. We know there is confusion and conflicting info about the actual chute Cooper took and Cossey has made conflicting statements.. 

This chute was found in the possible LZ, next to the river, next to the rail line (red line) which heads south right past the Heisson store (blue line 0.6 - 2.5 miles away) which had a break in that night. The chute was never retrieved by the FBI based on Cossey claiming his was white. What if Cossey was wrong.

 

,,,

[CooperNWO305 146]

Fly. Any idea what happened to the chute after? Maybe someone who lived there at the time took it home.  

[FLYJACK 654]

55 minutes ago, CooperNWO305 said:

Fly. Any idea what happened to the chute after? Maybe someone who lived there at the time took it home.  

police report.. (this is in FBI docs part 46)

Apparently it was kept for the FBI by the people that found it, the FBI never looked at it, after that who knows..

an orange and white nylon chute found in the river..

Edited May 19, 2020 by FLYJACK

[Coopy 2]

1 hour ago, FLYJACK said:

an orange and white nylon chute found in the river..

From my limited research it appears that most of the NB6 containers canopies supplied to the military were multi-color.

I've also read at several sites on the internet it was common practice to cut the parachute cords from the container before selling for salvage.  Although it appears you can still buy complete NB6 containers and canopies with military packing cards at Ebay.  The below one is a 1963 (est.) Pioneer NB6.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-US-Navy-NB-6-Parachute-Vietnam-Era-Still-Packed-with-Record-Card-USN-/323777041981?hash=item4b629d963d%3Ag%3A5eYAAOSwlY1ZIzoA&nma=true&si=jlTk9sHK4DSCvXhxbfqP5Nr36GY%3D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

The one sold at Ebay was manufactured about 1963 (packing card) it appears and the serial number is 87404.  The serial number on my Pioneer NB6 is 187204 and was manufactured in 1968.

If the Serial Numbers are sequential then Pioneer manufactured 99804 (close to 100 thousand) NB6's between 1963 and 1968.  During the height of the Vietnam war.

If Cossey was using a NB6 container where the cords had been cut to the original canopy he might have replaced with a white canopy.  I read that he had to stuff the 28 foot canopy into the container.  The original Canopy was also 28 foot in diameter.  So maybe the 28 foot canopy he "stuffed" into the container had a deeper concave to it because there was more material to pack.  The pictures of the supposive DB Cooper canopies I've seen on the internet do look to have more of a concave WW2 profile than the C-9 type canopies.

Bruce Smith interview with Cossey regarding "stuffed"...

"When I asked for a clarification on the story that he had stuffed a 28-foot canopy into an NB-6 rather than the larger NB-8 sack, he told me the stuffing story was “pretty much accurate.”  He later said that the tightly-packed rig was another reason why this chute – that Cooper allegedly used – was a hard pull."

 

 

Edited May 19, 2020 by Coopy

[Coopy 2]

2 hours ago, RobertMBlevins said:

In THIS ARTICLE from CBS, agent Larry Carr says the original chute used by Cooper was a 26-foot canopy, white, inside an NB-6 container. 

Yea, I have seen this 26 foot information.  Could he be talking about the length and not the diameter?

Shortly after the hijacking the FBI documented (as shown in a post by Flyjack) that Cossey said the parachute was Twenty Eight Foot and white.

Whatever the truth is.  Cossey seemed like a type of wise-guy prankster (somewhat shady) and did not take the request for parachutes as seriously as he should have.  Hijacker with bomb on plane saying no funny business??  I do not know if I want someone like Cossey packing a parachute for me.

Why didn't the FBI request parachutes from the Military?  Would have went much smoother and better documented.

[ParrotheadVol 70]

18 hours ago, RobertMBlevins said:

Pictures of the chute were released by the FBI and other chute experts have determined it was ripstop nylon.  

 

Are you sure about that? I thought the debate was that it may be nylon as opposed to silk. But ripstop nylon would have been very easily identified, or so I thought. 

[Coopy 2]

Did anything come of suspect William J. Smith put forth by a mysterious anonymous analyst in 2018?

https://www.oregonlive.com/news/erry-2018/11/e18eba2aa14557/new-suspect-in-db-cooper-skyja.html

Edited May 20, 2020 by Coopy

[FLYJACK 654]

19 minutes ago, Coopy said:

Did anything come of suspect William J. Smith put forth by a mysterious anonymous analyst in 2018?

https://www.oregonlive.com/news/erry-2018/11/e18eba2aa14557/new-suspect-in-db-cooper-skyja.html

More here..

https://thecoopervortex.podbean.com/e/db-cooper-was-a-railroader-anonymous/

[Coopy 2]

5 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

More here..

https://thecoopervortex.podbean.com/e/db-cooper-was-a-railroader-anonymous/

Thanks for the link to the podcast.  Kinda boring so far.

Do you know if there is a sideview/profile sketch of DB Cooper?

If memory serves correctly, Mucklow spent many hours sitting next to him.

Be nice if Mucklow could point out a real person that looks just like DB Cooper (maybe someone dead (permission from family) with several pictures for reference and even a video) to use as a reference for finding the real DB Cooper.  Sketches are very limited when compared to a photographs.

One can also use a photograph of a person and mask it over 3d computer model mesh.

 

Edited May 20, 2020 by Coopy

[FLYJACK 654]

1 hour ago, Coopy said:

Thanks for the link to the podcast.  Kinda boring so far.

Do you know if there is a sideview/profile sketch of DB Cooper?

If memory serves correctly, Mucklow spent many hours sitting next to him.

Be nice if Mucklow could point out a real person that looks just like DB Cooper (maybe someone dead (permission from family) with several pictures for reference and even a video) to use as a reference for finding the real DB Cooper.  Sketches are very limited when compared to a photographs.

One can also use a photograph of a person and mask it over 3d computer model mesh.

 

I read somewhere they discussed doing a side profile sketch but one has never been publicly released.

In the mid 70's, I think it was Flo who said her memory was fading,, I doubt any witness could ID Cooper now 50 years later, unless they remember a pic shown to them back then..

 

There were pics shown to witnesses that got a positive response but they are redacted.

I filled this one in,, the redacted letter spacing matches Hahneman, the date matches Hahneman and other indicators match Hahneman, he was in the list..  but I can't be sure. Hahneman is a strange guy in photos, I have about 12 pics of him and he looks like 3 completely different people.

Resembling the Cooper sketch is a good start for any suspect....

 

Edited May 20, 2020 by FLYJACK

[ParrotheadVol 70]

12 hours ago, RobertMBlevins said:

 

I also want to apologize about overreacting to your last post.

No apology is necessary, but I learned a long time ago that when someone offers an apology, you accept it, so I will. I have to be honest though, when I read this I wasn't sure what you were talking about. In my traveling this week, I managed to miss the post you are talking about so I had to go back and see this "overreaction". So, I won't respond to any of it other than to say - for clarification purposes - that LD Cooper is certainly not my suspect. 

I do not think that any of the known suspects are Cooper. I'm pretty much a skeptic when it comes to suspects. I think with enough effort, a circumstantial case can be made for anyone who fits the physical requirements.

At the end of the day, I just want to see the case solved. I love a good mystery, but not without the conclusion. If Kenny Christiansen were proven to be Cooper, I'd be fine with it. I say the same for any of the suspects that have been put forth.

I just want to know who did it and why. I don't think we ever get that answer.

Edited May 21, 2020 by ParrotheadVol

[Coopy 2]

12 hours ago, RobertMBlevins said:

Below are some of the lower-res images I have on the main computer. But it isn't enough to tell for sure.

The parking spaces look dirtier than the chute.  No way to treat evidence.

On another topic...

i was thinking why the NB6 parachute I have does not have a ripcord.  One obvious reason is that it cannot be used without one.  I did some googling.

https://parachutehistory.com/darwin/cablestops.html

Wouldn't you know it... sometimes people let go of the ripcord after pulling. It went sailing off into the wild blue yonder, plummeting towards earth, finding a new home amongst the tumbleweeds.

A brilliant jumper decided to put a stop on the ripcord cable. The stop prevented the entire cable from clearing the housing - even if you dropped the ripcord handle.

Ripcord stops became somewhat popular in the 1960’s with Rec. jumpers but eventually were banned due to fatalities and complications.

i wonder if Cossey used any ripcord stops on his chutes?

I guess the right type of ripcord found in the drop zone area might be useful to narrowing down the area he landed or fell.

 

 

 

Edited May 21, 2020 by Coopy

[FLYJACK 654]

46 minutes ago, ParrotheadVol said:

I do not think that any of the known suspects are Cooper. I'm pretty much a skeptic when it comes to suspects. I think with enough effort, a circumstantial case can be made for anyone who fits the physical requirements.

I just want to know who did it and why. I don't think we ever get that answer.

Problem is without forensics, you can't get beyond circumstantial.. the prints might not be Cooper's and the DNA is partial and inconclusive. Now, the chute can never be confirmed..  the only thing left is to tie the money to a suspect.

WE GOT NOTHING...  if your standard is more than a (strong) circumstantial case then a solve may be unobtainium...

Circumstantial is probably the best we can do..  unless the FBI does new DNA work.. but that is out of our control.

 

I am resigned to two standards,, a legal solve (forensics) and a public solve (circumstantial).. not all circumstantial cases are equal.

[ParrotheadVol 70]

1 hour ago, FLYJACK said:

Problem is without forensics, you can't get beyond circumstantial.. the prints might not be Cooper's and the DNA is partial and inconclusive. Now, the chute can never be confirmed..  the only thing left is to tie the money to a suspect.

WE GOT NOTHING...  if your standard is more than a (strong) circumstantial case then a solve may be unobtainium...

Circumstantial is probably the best we can do..  unless the FBI does new DNA work.. but that is out of our control.

 

I am resigned to two standards,, a legal solve (forensics) and a public solve (circumstantial).. not all circumstantial cases are equal.

I agree. The problem is that not everyone will have the same level of requirement for a public solve. How much circumstantial is enough? I'd love to see it, but my naturally pessimistic glass half empty attitude says we never will. I hope I'm wrong. 

[Coopy 2]

On 5/20/2020 at 6:17 PM, FLYJACK said:

Resembling the Cooper sketch is a good start for any suspect....

 

I agree that is a good place to start for those of us with limited resources and access to released reports the FBI spoon feeds the arm chair detectives.  It is a one way street with LE and they will tell you.

I heard your name mentioned several times in the Anonymous Analyst podcast.

Seems like you read every 302 that comes out.  I think that is great as you probably catch nuggets the FBI misses such at the country store break-in.

 

Edited May 21, 2020 by Coopy

[Coopy 2]

I notice the U.S. Marshall’s adopted the Alcatraz escape case from the FBI in 1979.  Seventeen years after The 1962 escape.  

The U.S. Marshall’s will pursue a case until the person(s) are arrested, positively determined deceased or reach the age of 99.

US Marshall’s are Still actively working tips and the Case in general for at least another 9 years based on their age criteria.

Frank Morris was born in 1926 is 94 and the Anglin brothers are about 90.

DB Cooper case is orphaned and needs adoption.  No positive age on Cooper could be a hang up.

I do not know about their case adoption procedures or if The Cooper case would meet their criteria.

https://www.usmarshals.gov/news/chron/2012/060712a.htm

Edited May 23, 2020 by Coopy

[Coopy 2]

4 minutes ago, RobertMBlevins said:

Good point, though. Problem with using the Marshals Service is that they wouldn't have a name to go on. Same problem the FBI had. So where do you start to look?

I'm just saying it would be nice to have some LE out there to still take in tips and work the case.  Logically, the U.S. Marshals would be one LE high on the list.

The FBI could make it easier for everyone if they were to computerize the copies of released and not released documents into a text searchable database/format. (like many newspapers have done)  They could contract a couple of good typists (with security clearance) to enter the thousands of pages (bad quality...beyond OCR technology) into a text searchable and organized database.  Probably worth more than what they use to do by paying high price agents to go on wild goose chases.

Then the armchair researcher can search the released documents more efficiently and any LE (with permission) that is wanting to access the non-released documents can search more efficiently.

I use to scan through miles of newspaper microfilm rolls for information.  WHAT A PAIN.  Now most newspapers are text searchable and online WHAT A JOY!  A real time saver!

 

[Coopy 2]

12 hours ago, RobertMBlevins said:

When you speak to them or message them at the SEATTLE office, they always mention your material or message is being forwarded to the current case agent. Even today. 

Well I guess that is better than nothing.

The saying “we always get our man” is the Canadian Mounties saying.....I mistakenly thought it was the FBI.

[FLYJACK 654]

NEW FBI file #47 is here:

 

https://vault.fbi.gov/D-B-Cooper /d.b.-cooper-part-47-of-47/view

[FLYJACK 654]

Cooper wore "non-lace type shoes of ankle length", that isn't loafers.

  

 

.

[FLYJACK 654]

FBI LZ..  red dot = Heisson

Edited May 28, 2020 by FLYJACK