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DB Cooper

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(edited)
41 minutes ago, FLYJACK said:

because you are denying reality,,,

It does match Cooper's hair description.. it is parted on the left, the only thing it isn't is slicked down in that image.

I do have many other better pics but I am not interested in convincing anyone of something I already know.

 

There is no left part in the only two images which are available online. You are blind and the only images you have ever posted are the same ones that are online. You say the hair matches and you have pics you say he wore skinny black ties you have pics. I’m simply asking you to  back up your claims with the evidence you say you have, the fact that you can’t well then I can only assume got nada fly. 

Edited by Nicholas Broughton

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2 minutes ago, Nicholas Broughton said:

So your saying he didn’t check the money when he initially received before taking off!? That doesn’t sound very smart to me. They weren’t readily available again I will quote Walter Dane the vp of eastern.

 A frantic four-hour search took place. Walter Dane, Eastern's vice president, said later, "We even tried the Bureau of Engraving in Washington to get the bills, but they said they had none and that they stopped making them in 1966. They didn't even have the plates." The money was flown in from as far away as Miami.

I don't know if he checked the money or considered going with what they gave him then changed his mind, he also jumped with 2000 cigarettes.

To claim Hahneman wasn't smart is ridiculous. He is described by people who knew him as very intelligent.

You don't know what his decision process was. You are making assumptions and creating a conclusion from those assumptions. That is piss poor logic.

The fact is the denominations he requested were available, he did get it. HE WAS RIGHT. He was very intelligent, he survived a jump out the rear of a 727 at night over the jungle with $303,000..  The FBI Id'd him from a tip and he turned himself in for fear of being killed in Honduras by people looking for the ransom.

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4 minutes ago, Nicholas Broughton said:

There is no left part in the only two images which are available online. You are blind and the only images you have ever posted are the same ones that are online. You say the hair matches and you have pics you say he wore skinny black ties you have pics. I’m simply asking you to prove back up your claims with the evidence you say you have the fact that you can’t leads me to believe you don’t have diddly squat for pics. 

There is a subtle left part in the earlier Hahneman pic. YOU ARE BLIND. Other pics show a more pronounced part.

I don't have to prove squat to you.. you are irrelevant to me. A nothing. If I posted those pics you'd just make up some other irrational nonsense to reject Hahneman..

Frankly, you have a bad attitude and use poor logic. Otherwise I would have posted more. The one thing I don't respect or have time for is poor reasoning and bad logic.

 

Your logic, if I don't show what I have you can use that reject to Hahneman,, that is great.. idiotic logic, but go for it. I am not in this to play these childish games.

 

Fact is, Hahneman's hair matches the description of Cooper's, if you don't think so that is your problem, not mine. I don't owe you anything. 

Do your own homework,,

 

.

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(edited)
1 hour ago, FLYJACK said:

No it isn't...

The plane took off with the wrong denominations, Hahneman demanded the denominations he originally requested while the plane circled in the air.

He did receive the large bills he requested... they were available. Your statement is false. Your conclusion is nonsense. In no way is it evidence that he wasn't Cooper.

 

The plane did not take off with the wrong denomination you can’t even get your facts straight fly. You are the one that needs to do the homework. Once they landed and the money arrived he checked the briefcase and it was hundos not what he asked for so the plane stayed grounded there for 4 hours while they searched for the money he wanted. Cooper got ancy about a 30 min fuel delay I doubt he would of been comfortable being grounded for four hours! So he was smart enough to check the money before take off. Your false report made me think otherwise not saying he wasn’t a smart guy just not as smart as cooper. Nobody saw or interacted with cooper there was no trace of him before he appeared in pdx. FH was chilling in a hotel lobby eating cherry pie and drinking coke interacting with patrons even telling them he had to catch a flight. Big difference from cooper there!

 

But a new wrinkle emerged when Hahneman saw the denomination of the cash given to him. For whatever reason, he had demanded $500 and $1000 bills instead of the $100 bills given to him. While the plane waited at Dulles, Eastern sought out the necessary bills. Since the government had not made that type of currency since 1966 it was a nationwide search.

Four hours later they were airborne once again. Hahneman then gave orders for the pilot to fly over the Central American country of Honduras, where the hijacker had been born. 

 

 

Edited by Nicholas Broughton

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(edited)

 

23 minutes ago, Nicholas Broughton said:

The plane did not take off with the wrong denomination you can’t even get your facts straight fly. Once they landed and the money arrived he checked the briefcase and it was hundos not what he asked for so the plane stayed grounded there for 4 hours while they searched for the money he wanted. So he was smart enough to check the money before take off. Your false report made me think otherwise not saying he wasn’t a smart guy just not as smart as cooper. Nobody saw or interacted with cooper there was no trace of him before he appeared in pdx. FH was chilling in a hotel lobby eating cherry pie and drinking coke interacting with patrons even telling them he had to catch a flight. Big difference from cooper there!

That is just not true, I have the facts correct.

I have an FBI document, newspaper reports aren't always accurate.

FBI  - "Approximately 1:15 P.M., plane left Dulles with crew members, which included three male and four female' members and other items demanded by hijacker. Hijacker, shortly after the plane became airborne, expressed dis- satisfaction and requested plane to return to the vicinity of Dulles Airport. Plane circled vicinity of Dulles Airport until his demand for one hundred $1000 bills, two hundred $500 and five eighty-five $100 bills was met. Shortly after 7:30 P.M., the plane again landed at Dulles Airport at which time the new ransom money was placed onboard and a stewardess and flight engineer were replaced with new crew members."

 

Can you understand my frustration discussing Hahneman with people who have no idea what the facts are.. I have thousands of pieces of information on Hahneman. You have reached bogus conclusions on incomplete, mis-information and assumptions...  I am not interested in going through all my info and sorting it out all out for you. 

 

The fact that nobody was found who saw or remembered Cooper before the hijacking is irrelevant..

 

Edited by FLYJACK

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(edited)
14 minutes ago, FLYJACK said:

 

That is just not true,

I have an FBI document, newspaper reports aren't always accurate.

FBI  - "Approximately 1:15 P.M., plane left Dulles with crew members, which included three male and four female' members and other items demanded by hijacker. Hijacker, shortly after the plane became airborne, expressed dis- satisfaction and requested plane to return to the vicinity of Dulles Airport. Plane circled vicinity of Dulles Airport until his demand for one hundred $1000 bills, two hundred $500 and five eighty-five $100 bills was met. Shortly after 7:30 P.M., the plane again landed at Dulles Airport at which time the new ransom money was placed onboard and a stewardess and flight engineer were replaced with new crew members."

 

Can you understand my frustration discussing Hahneman with people who have no idea what the facts are.. I have thousands of pieces of information on Hahneman. You have reached bogus conclusions on incomplete, mis-information and assumptions...  I am not interested in going through all my info and sorting it out all out for you. 

 

The fact that nobody saw or remembered Cooper before the hijacking is irrelevant..

 

No it’s not because that is what got FH caught...correct me if I’m wrong but wasn’t he ID’d by somebody at the hotel lobby? Nonetheless and you guys chime in here if you were hijacking a plane would you be hanging out talking to people at a nearby hotel lobby where you would have many eyes on you and even divulging the fact you were about to catch a flight? Wouldn’t that increase the odds somebody  would recognize you? Especially announcing you were about to fly would be pretty easy to put two and two together. I know I wouldn’t. Can you post an image or screen shot of this fbi document fly like you do with the cooper 302’s?

Edited by Nicholas Broughton

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1 minute ago, Nicholas Broughton said:

No it’s not because that is what got FH caught...correct me if I’m wrong but wasn’t he ID’d by one of the people at the hotel lobby? You guys chime in here if you were hijacking a plane would you be hanging out talking to people at a hotel lobby where you would have many eyes on you? Wouldn’t that increase the odds somebody  would recognize you? I know I wouldn’t. Can you post a screen shot of this fbi document fly like you do with the cooper 302’s?

First off, I have never said anything about a Hotel lobby. Maybe others have..

The name "George Ames", Hahneman's alias was tracked to the Hotel, not Hahneman.

Interesting point, Hahneman's pic was later shown to Hotel staff and they said it was definitely not him...  it turned out it was. Witnesses aren't entirely reliable.

Hahneman was identified by a tipster for a reward, rumour is it was a relative, maybe a cousin but I haven't confirmed that 100%.. FBI is really trying to hide that.

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2 minutes ago, RobertMBlevins said:

May I inject a bit of reality here regarding arguments over suspects, and who or who does not look like Cooper?

1) We have no photographs of Cooper himself. Which means we have to go on witness reports alone, and a sketch that has been modified at least once. Reliability of witness descriptions against what the actual suspect looks like? The Green River Task Force, an entire organization that was dedicated to catching the Green River Killer, had a description, a sketch, a wanted poster at every officer's desk. Right there on the damn wall next to them. The killer himself (Gary Ridgway) is brought in for questioning. He gives a DNA sample although I don't think they called it that back then. No one recognizes that he might match the description and the sketch. He is not questioned further. 

2) Too many people match the description. No red hair, no scar, no distinguishing features. Just NOTHING that would make Cooper stand out from anyone five something to six something with dark hair and a suit. He was just so...well...ORDINARY. If you had an image search program where you could enter someone's picture and match it to every single image that comes close on Google Images...you would come up with thousands of pictures of people who looked like Cooper. It's a problem. 

3) Even if your suspect is a dead-on ring-a-ding for the sketch...it doesn't matter one bit without some additional evidence possibly linking him to the crime. Just 'looking like Cooper' isn't enough. Not by a long way. 

Of course Robert but it’s one of may boxes that need to be checked. If you can’t check that off you can’t keep going down the checklist. 

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(edited)
11 minutes ago, RobertMBlevins said:

May I inject a bit of reality here regarding arguments over suspects, and who or who does not look like Cooper?

1) We have no photographs of Cooper himself. Which means we have to go on witness reports alone, and a sketch that has been modified at least once. Reliability of witness descriptions against what the actual suspect looks like? The Green River Task Force, an entire organization that was dedicated to catching the Green River Killer, had a description, a sketch, a wanted poster at every officer's desk. Right there on the damn wall next to them. The killer himself (Gary Ridgway) is brought in for questioning. He gives a DNA sample although I don't think they called it that back then. No one recognizes that he might match the description and the sketch. He is not questioned further. 

2) Too many people match the description. No red hair, no scar, no distinguishing features. Just NOTHING that would make Cooper stand out from anyone five something to six something with dark hair and a suit. He was just so...well...ORDINARY. If you had an image search program where you could enter someone's picture and match it to every single image that comes close on Google Images...you would come up with thousands of pictures of people who looked like Cooper. It's a problem. 

3) Even if your suspect is a dead-on ring-a-ding for the sketch...it doesn't matter one bit without some additional evidence possibly linking him to the crime. Just 'looking like Cooper' isn't enough. Not by a long way. 

I know what you mean, suspect descriptions aren't definitive or conclusive on their own.

They are part of the picture though. You need to take everything in.

 

Some funny things..

Hahenman had a scar on his hand,, the witnesses claimed he had no scars.

The pilot positively ID the wrong guy from photos.

The hotel staff rejected a pic of Hahneman as George Ames, it was him.

 

Edited by FLYJACK

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1 minute ago, RobertMBlevins said:

True enough. But you can't rely on the witness descriptions and the sketch alone. I think we can agree that most of main suspects that get discussed do somewhat look like the sketch, and possibly even match the descriptions given by witnesses. But without more than that...you are going nowhere with any investigation. 

I've always said that it's too bad stew Alice Hancock didn't think to ask any of the First Class passengers if they had an Instamatic in their carry-ons. She could have removed the flashcube and put the lens through a tiny gap in the curtain, snapped a few quick shots. No one would have heard a sound that far away. This case would have been solved years ago. 

Somebody did try to take a secret pic of Hahneman during his hijacking, it didn't turn out.

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(edited)
4 minutes ago, RobertMBlevins said:

That's interesting. 

Uh...my last post with the picture was a joke, of course. I just wanted to clarify which picture of KC I sent to the NHK public tv guys. They asked for that one specifically. They got a much higher res version, much larger one. It's a good version. All spots, scratches, etc all removed using tools from MS Digital Pro. That takes a fair amount of time to accomplish. I actually earned the measly fifty bucks they sent. 

What do think of those shoes I posted earlier?

Vintage brown loafer like with corrugated (military style) commando soles.. 

Edited by FLYJACK

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1 minute ago, RobertMBlevins said:

Could be an example of shoes Cooper wore, yes. The big mystery is What Did He Have in the Damn Paper Bag?

One small bit that might point to Cooper doing the store break-in is this:

The break-in would have happened on what technically was Thanksgiving morning. Who would do that unless they were really desperate? Some teenager with no place to go on Thanksgiving? Unlikely. It's just not a typical time, or even a proper day, for a break in. Thanksgiving morning? Who needs to break into some little store for gloves and road food in the early morning of the We're Going to Eat the Whole House today holiday? 

Hell, even most hobos back then would be hanging out near the shelters to get their free Thanksgiving dinner? Who breaks into some store for food on Thanksgiving? Out in the country no less? 

The gloves tell you one thing. Whoever did it was either on the road, or wasn't planning to go home and to bed afterwards. You steal gloves because you need them. 

and cigarettes...

There were shoes available at the time that looked like loafers but had corrugated (military style) commando soles.

The circumstantial elements fit well. It was 1 mile from a found chute in river next to railway, store was right on the rail tracks and within the potential LZ...

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11 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

and cigarettes...

There were shoes available at the time that looked like loafers but had corrugated (military style) commando soles.

The circumstantial elements fit well. It was 1 mile from a found chute in river next to railway, store was right on the rail tracks and within the potential LZ...

Nice find with the shoes Fly! The pics show shoes with laces, were any slip on types made? Weren't Cooper's loafers identified as slip ons?

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(edited)
55 minutes ago, haggarknew said:

Nice find with the shoes Fly! The pics show shoes with laces, were any slip on types made? Weren't Cooper's loafers identified as slip ons?

The description was slipons, no laces, but they might not have been, some have really high laces and look like slipons, there was also a low ankle boot with no laces.

Those soles were called commando soles... they began in the 1940's.

Many different shoes had them or copied them.. I had a pair of Doc Martins in the 1980's that had the commando soles but looked like dress shoes..

There were many like this.. a low ankle boot, no laces and commando sole. Would look like a slipon...

If Cooper was jumping an ankle boot similar to this makes the most sense. IMO.

s-l1600-4.jpg.38fe96211d64672e2c1520aaac5c0cbc.jpg

 

I found vintage loafers with commando sole..

m_5ccd19e479df275313005332.jpg.5efbe6592f4b98cbe990351801ed0aac.jpg

m_5ccd19e7ffc2d4e292d08e7a.jpg.881b690dddadad5b4d51bb259b003f37.jpg

 

Edited by FLYJACK

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(edited)

You guys are blind, there is a subtle left part in this pic..

hahnpart.jpg.acadb6e5ccdedc91bc0b8fb162a033a0.jpg

A heavier Hahneman from his passport photo.. Clear part on the left. There are also pics of hair slicked back flat.. even short and forward.

hahnsketch1.jpeg.e7b5f80fd8b33777d2cd4acbb0606fa8.jpeg

 

I have about a dozen pics of Hahneman and he looks like 4 different people,, his weight fluctuated greatly and his hair style changed.. his face changed from fat to thin back to fat.. he was diagnosed with cancer in 1971.

FBI suspect sketches..

coophahn.jpeg.5c5934504f18e1d6838d03cc51d8662e.jpeg

Edited by FLYJACK

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You guys have mentioned that there were a number of parachute finds in the area. That strikes me as curious. What more might be known about them? Were they full rigs, with lines, and harness/containers attached? How many people would be making bandit jumps into the wilderness and leaving the rigs behind, and why? Or were they just canopies with perhaps all or most of the lines cut off that people might use for makeshift camping gear, shelter, shade?

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On 3/24/2020 at 5:44 PM, RobertMBlevins said:

Could be an example of shoes Cooper wore, yes. The big mystery is What Did He Have in the Damn Paper Bag?

One small bit that might point to Cooper doing the store break-in is this:

The break-in would have happened on what technically was Thanksgiving morning. Who would do that unless they were really desperate? Some teenager with no place to go on Thanksgiving? Unlikely. It's just not a typical time, or even a proper day, for a break in. Thanksgiving morning? Who needs to break into some little store for gloves and road food in the early morning of the We're Going to Eat the Whole House today holiday? 

Hell, even most hobos back then would be hanging out near the shelters to get their free Thanksgiving dinner? Who breaks into some store for food on Thanksgiving? Out in the country no less? 

The gloves tell you one thing. Whoever did it was either on the road, or wasn't planning to go home and to bed afterwards. You steal gloves because you need them. 

EDIT: Hahneman pictures. Doesn't look like he has a part going. But I will tell you one thing about him. His glasses' prescription is at least + or - 250, maybe + or -350. Can't tell for sure, but it looks like myopia or astigmatism lens. (Farsighted lens would just blur the background behind them, or increase the size of objects.) Shrinks down those background windows through the lens pretty severely. Just saying. 

Hglasses.jpg.e63d0fdd2cdc31708d992da8d2443bd3.jpg

Good catch Robert were contacts or prescription sunglasses common in 71? If not FW would had a hard time seeing if he was cooper. 

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(edited)
37 minutes ago, Nicholas Broughton said:

Good catch Robert were contacts or prescription sunglasses common in 71? If not FW would had a hard time seeing if he was cooper. 

 

BOOM... I figured this out long ago,,,

Hahneman wore dark sunglasses for his hijacking.

 

One of the stews thought Cooper may have had prescription lenses... 

prescriptionsunglasses.jpeg.f8dc47483f12104693112b37edfcc884.jpeg

pressunglasses.jpeg.282bd4309380bfd04440990a8e10122d.jpeg

Edited by FLYJACK

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There is one caveat.. The chute description of all white came from Cossey.. Cossey may been wrong if the chutes were mixed up..

The orange and white chute found in the river next to the rail tracks a mile from Heisson store might have been Cooper's. (if Cossey was wrong) The FBI dismissed it for being the wrong colour..

 

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22 hours ago, dudeman17 said:

You guys have mentioned that there were a number of parachute finds in the area. That strikes me as curious. What more might be known about them? Were they full rigs, with lines, and harness/containers attached? How many people would be making bandit jumps into the wilderness and leaving the rigs behind, and why? Or were they just canopies with perhaps all or most of the lines cut off that people might use for makeshift camping gear, shelter, shade?

 

17 hours ago, RobertMBlevins said:

The only 'real' parachute found was the one on private property between Bald and Green Mountains in the Amboy, WA area.

Well I know about the Amboy chute, but I thought I read on here a few days ago that there were something like 4 or 5 different parachutes found in the area over time. That's what I was curious about. Am I mistaken?

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7 hours ago, RobertMBlevins said:

It's a decent show, and I have most of the episodes. But I was just wondering whether you post here solely to advertise your latest episode, or if you have actual opinions on anything Cooper-related. All I ever see is the ads. It is better to advertise here, rather than the DB Cooper Forum, though. All the public sees over there when you post your links (instead of the actual link to the show) is THIS:

Sign out over there sometime and look at one of your posts. You will see what I mean. 

Robert-You were on the podcast.  How many have you listened to?  Darren is knowledgeable about the case, and he has opinions, but as a host he does a great job of staying neutral.

Anyone who posts at the Cooper Forum knows that links are only available to those who log in.

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(edited)

Darren's podcast's are stellar..

It is always beneficial to listen to views especially ones you don't agree with..

The most important thing is not what other's conclude but why and how they reached that conclusion. It makes one a better thinker..

Many conclusions are the result of flawed reasoning and logic..

Edited by FLYJACK
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