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DB Cooper

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The list of evidence shows items by letters. "E" & "F" are two parachutes found on the plane. the paragraph below each one gives more detail and states they were found on the plane. it's not "extra" chutes.

The packing card is NEW since Cossey was first to write on it. no other info prior to May of 71 is on the card since it's a new card or a carry over from existing cards.

A major problem we have is the lack of everything surrounding a piece of evidence or bits and pieces.

I am currently working with WSHS to have Hayden's chute opened for examination. I have a hunch it bores a Steinthal...

chute evi.png

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7 minutes ago, CooperNWO305 said:

Fly. I’m trying to visualize this. Cooper says no to military chutes, but he ends up using a military chute or a partial military chute given it was 1971?  Or was it that he used a civilian container that had a military harness with a military canopy? 
 

I have not spent a lot of time on the chutes, except to zero in on the fact that he put on a harness easily. I assumed the harness was military spec. 
 

As always, great info. Although I respect the FBI, they are not infallible. I still think there are Cooper researchers who know more about the case than any agent, simply for the fact that an independent researcher can stay on the case for much longer. 

Himmelsbach claimed Cooper demanded chutes from McChord.

per FBI doc, Cooper was expecting chutes from McChord.

News reports were that he rejected the McChord chutes due to opening system.

So, if he was expecting chutes from McChord then when did he reject them, he must have seen them to reject them and request others. How could go from expecting chutes  from McChord to rejected them without seeing them. If you wanted 2 chutes for a hostage, wouldn't the best chute for a hostage be an AAD equipped chute,,

 

Larry Finegold had indicated an FBI agent he knew brought chutes onto the plane. These may have been the McChord chutes.

Larry finegold..

"It was not long after the jet landed that Finegold became perhaps the first passenger to learn what was really going on. A man boarded the plane and came down the aisle. Finegold recognized him as an FBI agent he’d worked with before on federal cases.
“He said, ‘Larry, there’s a skyjacker on the plane, and we’re gonna get you off the plane in a couple minutes,’ then he walks [toward the rear of the cabin] because I think there was an exchange,” Finegold said. “This was happening behind me. [The FBI agent] was bringing on the money and the parachutes."

 

My current theory,, subject to change..

Cooper asked for chutes from McChord.

They were delivered to the plane. They had AAD.

Cooper demanded replacements with manual opening. 

Tina brought the replacements.. Hayden's.

Cooper ended up using one of the McChord chutes.

 

The FBI was looking for the wrong chute... 

The chute found in the south Fork Lewis R one mile from the general store and right next to the railroad may have been the chute Cooper used. It was rejected by the FBI and not collected.

 

If Cooper did use an AAD chute and opened nearly immediately, what would the drift have been???

 

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(edited)
30 minutes ago, mrshutter45 said:

The list of evidence shows items by letters. "E" & "F" are two parachutes found on the plane. the paragraph below each one gives more detail and states they were found on the plane. it's not "extra" chutes.

The packing card is NEW since Cossey was first to write on it. no other info prior to May of 71 is on the card since it's a new card or a carry over from existing cards.

A major problem we have is the lack of everything surrounding a piece of evidence or bits and pieces.

I am currently working with WSHS to have Hayden's chute opened for examination. I have a hunch it bores a Steinthal...

chute evi.png

Totally irrelevant, could be confusion by the FBI in the summary or maybe both of Hayden's were left on the plane if there were two chute deliveries to the plane. That document doesn't show anything other than confirming that both of Hayden's chutes were left somewhere and not taken by Cooper.

The packing card being new before Cossey packed Hayden's chute is irrelevant, meaningless. 

The chute at WSHS is a lost leader, Hayden's chute was repacked 2X after Hayden got it back and the card signed, if the S/N 226 was wrong wouldn't those packers have noticed and checked. It still doesn't matter both of Hayden's chutes are accounted for.. no way around it.

FACT Is,, both of Hayden's are accounted for, COOPER DIDN'T TAKE EITHER.

 

What I am trying to sort is which other one he took. Either Cossey's or McChord's but I am leaning toward McChord's based on Finegold's statement.

Edited by FLYJACK

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(edited)

Ground elevation where chute was found 400ft. 

If Cooper's chute deployed in 200 ft of exit,,

What is the drift from 9400 ft. elevation?

 

The chute was found about 4.5 miles NE from flightpath which had a half mile error plot. It lines up with 20:12-20:13: time.

Is 4 - 4.5 miles drift NE within a drift zone from 9400ft? assume SW wind at 25-30 mph.

Did a quick/rough calc and max distance looks to be 3 - 3.5 miles..

It is close.. the variable is the precise location of the airplane.

4miles.jpeg.99a5b074ea168bd58aae33db1bacccfd.jpeg

Edited by FLYJACK

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2 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

 

Larry Finegold had indicated an FBI agent he knew brought chutes onto the plane. These may have been the McChord chutes.

Larry finegold..

"It was not long after the jet landed that Finegold became perhaps the first passenger to learn what was really going on. A man boarded the plane and came down the aisle. Finegold recognized him as an FBI agent he’d worked with before on federal cases.
“He said, ‘Larry, there’s a skyjacker on the plane, and we’re gonna get you off the plane in a couple minutes,’ then he walks [toward the rear of the cabin] because I think there was an exchange,” Finegold said. “This was happening behind me. [The FBI agent] was bringing on the money and the parachutes."

 

This is not true.  The money and parachutes were driven to the airplane by Al Lee, Seattle Chief Pilot for NWA, and the Seattle Police Detective who picked the money up at the bank and drove it to SEATAC.  NWA had already told the FBI to not do anything and there is no evidence that FBI agents were anywhere close to the airliner.

Tina is the only one that carried anything into the airplane.  She made several trips from the Al Lee car and carried all four parachutes, the money bag, and a box with maps and crew meals into the airliner.  No FBI agent or anyone else was involved.

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26 minutes ago, Robert99 said:

This is not true.  The money and parachutes were driven to the airplane by Al Lee, Seattle Chief Pilot for NWA, and the Seattle Police Detective who picked the money up at the bank and drove it to SEATAC.  NWA had already told the FBI to not do anything and there is no evidence that FBI agents were anywhere close to the airliner.

Tina is the only one that carried anything into the airplane.  She made several trips from the Al Lee car and carried all four parachutes, the money bag, and a box with maps and crew meals into the airliner.  No FBI agent or anyone else was involved.

Get a grip R99, you are out of control and confused again.

YES, Al Lee brought the chutes to the plane and Tina brought them on board. I said that already.

I am speculating based on several factors that perhaps the McChord chutes were brought to the plane before that and the chutes from Tina were the replacements Cooper asked for.

Use your noodle..

For Cooper to reject chutes he believed were coming from McChord he must have seen them. He could only have seen them if they were brought to the plane earlier. Larry Finegold's claim which was always discounted makes sense in this context.

 

Edited by FLYJACK

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18 minutes ago, mrshutter45 said:

That was a question similar to the one you gave me. then you add insult to it..way to go G...

It wasn't an insult, it is a fact.

I asked you a simple question, which of Hayden's chutes did Cooper take?

You claimed it was simple but you can't answer it and you know it. So, you tried the Georger fallback passive aggressive mockery.

 

I am done with this garbage.. keep your toxic crap over there.

 

 

 

Edited by FLYJACK

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40 minutes ago, mrshutter45 said:

you are 100% wrong...again!

From you that means nothing.. your recent posts about the Hayden chutes are littered with logical errors and irrational nonsense.

I was trying to be nice but you are truly clueless..

Shutter - "226 is not a S/N.."

"unbelievable", it is written right on the packing card.

Edited by FLYJACK

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(edited)

A chute remnant was found in the river (blue line) between Heisson Bridge and Lucia falls.. the FBI dismissed it. The (red line) is the railway is right next to the river where the chute was found. Heisson General Store right on the railway line is most likely the store that had the break-in Norjak evening. The (wide black line) is the approximate flightpath about 4 miles from the Heisson Bridge between the 20:12 at 20:13 time mark.

chutefoundH.jpeg.ae0596685fbe4a2ef9361d1a562e9a64.jpeg

Edited by FLYJACK

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(edited)

Robert,

According to you everyone if full of BS.. Finegold, Himmelsbach, the NYTimes, Cossey, Bruce Smith.. but even if true which it isn't Cooper still didn't use either of Hayden's chutes.

So which of Hayden's chutes did Cooper use?

Maybe somebody can provide an actual answer before this COVID-19 zombie apocalypse gets really rolling..

 

The problem is both of Hayden's chutes are documented in existence AFTER NORJAK.

So, which chute did he take? 

 

Edited by FLYJACK

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(edited)

Of course it is the serial number. The descriptor is below the line..

That card is poorly designed but that doesn't change the data...

Are you seriously hanging your argument on that nonsense. You should be embarrassed for that.

.

Edited by FLYJACK

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55 minutes ago, RobertMBlevins said:

How the heck should I know? Why don't you ask me if I trust anything some whuffo FBI agent writes or sends in to his superiors about the chutes, to be included in the Big Ass Case File on Cooper? I don't know for sure. But neither do I see any actual proof that chutes from the military were sent to SeaTac. And even if they were...if they weren't brought on board...then how do they matter? 

This thing about the chutes has multiplied beyond reason, much of it without proof. Eight possible now, instead of four. Two from McChord. Two from Hayden. Two from Cossey. Two MORE from SkySports. Where does it end? REMEMBER: Cossey said he used A CAB. The FBI report says the WA State Patrol picked up two from SkySports...not a cab. That makes EIGHT possible chutes now. 

The only two people you mentioned that I think are full of BS are Bruce Smith and Earl Cossey. Funny how Cossey claims he ALSO sent chutes to the airport by cab, just like Hayden. But Hayden's version of things matches the known FBI report. Cossey's does not. Smith? That guy is a joke and is a known liar. He lets anonymous people make trashy comments to his website and then thinks that will make him look good with the public and the media. Do you know WHY he finally scrubbed some of those posts, as he said a few days back? It's because I recently reminded him that only a dozen people follow those comments...and yet the whole mess makes him look bad in public. He writes decent articles...and then they get trashed in comments...making not ME look bad...but HIM for allowing it. It's a joke. I think he finally realized that. He will never tell you this, but he's pissed off that he mis-read me way back when I was trying to get him to accept the historical-accuracy job on the Cooper movie. He blew me off and then figured out later I WASN'T lying to him after all. That's his fault, not mine. He never answered the offer beyond a couple of one-liners and an unreasonable demand. He is furious about this, but like I said...he would never admit that to Cooperland folk. 

Robert,,

You are drifting OT again..

Ironically, you have essentially the same illogical argument as Shutter.

Basically, we don't have proof for which chute Cooper took so it must have been one of Hayden's.

It is true we don't have proof of which chute Cooper took but do have proof he didn't take one of Hayden's.. both are accounted for.

 

Neither of you can tell me which one of Hayden's chutes Cooper took.

 

Since he didn't take either of Hayden's and we don't have proof of which one took we need to use logic and reason to try to figure it out. Cossey's or McChord's.

 

NYTimes..

"Two military models were found at McChord Air Force Base in Tacoma and rushed to the Seattle field."

Himmelsbach claimed Cooper requested chutes from McChord.

FBI files, Cooper expected chutes form McChord..

 

Cooper rejected "auto" chutes from McChord and requested manual ones, (Hayden's)

Cooper was expecting them from McChord, so when did he reject them before or after he saw them? How could he reject chutes he was expecting without seeing them? If after he saw them it had to be on the plane. That means they were delivered earlier and matches Finegold's story.

 

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2 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

A chute remnant was found in the river (blue line) between Heisson Bridge and Lucia falls.. the FBI dismissed it. The (red line) is the railway is right next to the river where the chute was found. Heisson General Store right on the railway line is most likely the store that had the break-in Norjak evening. The (wide black line) is the approximate flightpath about 4 miles from the Heisson Bridge between the 20:12 at 20:13 time mark.

chutefoundH.jpeg.ae0596685fbe4a2ef9361d1a562e9a64.jpeg

0E5C2EBA-C4AF-4B67-B6FD-8E9029D3B54A.png.8befdd5da1d69eb6b47b864dc7ed62bb.png

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16 minutes ago, mrshutter45 said:

when have you seen such a small serial number. even Steinthal has 2 digits a dash followed by  5 digits. same with Switlik and other companies dating back to the 40's. 60-9707 doesn't match either. 

You don't like the size of the serial number?  

The fact is they aren't the same, neither is the date. They should match if they are the same regardless of the actual number.

Do you have evidence that S/N's for Steinthal chutes don't have 6 numbers? or are you using an assumption to draw a conclusion..

1967 Steinthal 67-8412

https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/28-diameter-orange-white-tan-green-2006188302

 

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