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DB Cooper

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11 hours ago, RobertMBlevins said:

Two from Hayden

Two from Sky Sports

Cossey claims he had chutes sent either from his house, or from Sky Sports...but by cab. We already know Linn Emerick provided two to the WA State Patrol, so NO CAB INVOLVED. Cossey claims a cab. That means four chutes between Emerick and Cossey. 

Two more from Hayden

Two more from McChord. That makes EIGHT parachutes. Someone has not been truthful. 

I just got the phone number sent to me of the guy from Sky Sports. I will call him tomorrow. I would do it now but it's the dinner hour and I need tonight to run up questions for him in advance. 

If you have any of your own questions, try to keep them simple and post them up by tomorrow at 10AM Pacific (Seattle time). I will add them to the list. Calling him in the early afternoon tomorrow, no work scheduled for me tomorrow and the guy is retired. I will ask his permission to record the call, otherwise I will take notes. If he allows a recording, I will do a transcript. If he doesn't, I will list the questions I asked and provide his answers to them. 

Could you ask if he remembers a very big guy that everyone called "Bear"?  He was a person heavily involved in the skydiving crowd at that time. He may have had some involvement with the chutes related to Cooper.

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(edited)
10 hours ago, RobertMBlevins said:

Your take on the evidence depends on the credibility of BOTH Bruce Smith, AND Earl Cossey. Both of them are proven to have either lied multiple times (Smith), or gone public with at least one major thing in the case that is absolutely not true. (Cossey and the Amboy chute)

Actually, no it doesn't whatsoever. It helps sort it out, but it doesn't rely on it. 

The key evidence is the packing cards not matching proving Cooper didn't take either of Hayden's chutes. No way around that. Dismissing Cossey and Bruce doesn't make any difference.

If he didn't take either of Hayden's chutes...  to distill your argument.. he took one of Hayden's because Cossey and Bruce are not credible and Hayden is,, that isn't an argument, it is ridiculous. So, if he didn't take one of Hayden's and in your opinion didn't take one of Cossey's then what did Cooper jump with?? Rejecting Cossey's chute isn't an argument that resolves this.. Attacking Cossey and Bruce's interview is a straw-man. 

I really find dismissing Bruce's interview, especially quotes from Hayden as false without any evidence completely reckless and even irrational. Much of that interview is backed up by the evidence. None is inconsistent.

The Amboy chute has nothing to do with this. We don't know why Cossey said what he said, there may have been a reason for it we are unaware of..

The context we have to understand is the perspectives of Cossey and Hayden at the time,, neither had any knowledge of each other or the chutes after they sent them in, they are expressing their opinions, their assumptions not facts. It isn't a matter of one is correct and the other is lying. Both are expressing their perception that doesn't mean either is lying.

Edited by FLYJACK

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9 hours ago, haggarknew said:

Could you ask if he remembers a very big guy that everyone called "Bear"?  He was a person heavily involved in the skydiving crowd at that time. He may have had some involvement with the chutes related to Cooper.

What do you know of Bear, and how?

PM me if you prefer.

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10 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

Actually, no it doesn't whatsoever. It helps sort it out, but it doesn't rely on it. 

The key evidence is the packing cards not matching proving Cooper didn't take either of Hayden's chutes. No way around that. Dismissing Cossey and Bruce doesn't make any difference.

If he didn't take either of Hayden's chutes...  to distill your argument.. he took one of Hayden's because Cossey and Bruce are not credible and Hayden is,, that isn't an argument, it is ridiculous. So, if he didn't take one of Hayden's and in your opinion didn't take one of Cossey's then what did Cooper jump with?? Rejecting Cossey's chute isn't an argument that resolves this.. Attacking Cossey and Bruce's interview is a straw-man. 

I really find dismissing Bruce's interview, especially quotes from Hayden as false without any evidence completely reckless and even irrational. Much of that interview is backed up by the evidence. None is inconsistent.

The Amboy chute has nothing to do with this. We don't know why Cossey said what he said, there may have been a reason for it we are unaware of..

The context we have to understand is the perspectives of Cossey and Hayden at the time,, neither had any knowledge of each other or the chutes after they sent them in, they are expressing their opinions, their assumptions not facts. It isn't a matter of one is correct and the other is lying. Both are expressing their perception that doesn't mean either is lying.

One thing to remember is that Cooper put on the harness/chute quickly and with ease, and did not need any instructions.  He has been accused of doing things haphazardly, but this part of the hijacking does not indicate someone who was winging it.

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9 hours ago, RobertMBlevins said:

Arguments for and against the idea of Kenny Christiansen as the famous hijacker?

How much time do you have? Okay, that was a bit of a joke.

BELOW: A picture of Christiansen that was time-stamped by the developer as MAR 72, but the Christmas wreath on the door indicates it was probably taken between Thanksgiving and Christmas 1971. (Hijacking was on November 24, 1971.) This picture was found hidden beneath another picture, in one of Christiansen’s photo albums after his death.

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Christiansen was investigated by our company, Adventure Books of Seattle, in cooperation with Skipp Porteous, the founder of Sherlock Investigations. This effort began in late 2009, and came to a wrap just this year. It was a long and convoluted road with many twists and turns along the way. Christiansen’s story, and possible involvement, was first proposed not by me, or even Skipp Porteous. It was done by Geoffrey Gray two years before I was a part of the investigation. Three years later, it made national TV for the first time on the show Brad Meltzer’s Decoded, for the History Channel:

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On this episode of Decoded, which ended up being their most-viewed of the series, alleged accomplice Bernie Geestman agreed to appear and answer questions. (Shown below) Geestman denied his involvement and actually pointed TO Christiansen as possibly being Cooper. He said: “Well, he looks just like him…” (Cooper).

PROBLEM: Several of Geestman’s friends, and some family members testified that Geestman was WITH Kenny Christiansen for the entire week the hijacking occurred, supposedly on a ‘camping trip.’ Unfortunately, the cast was not informed about this testimony otherwise they would have grilled him on WHY he would suggest Kenny was the hijacker when he could have offered an alibi for Christiansen instead. Prior to coming on the show, he tried telling History Channel producers that he hardly knew Christiansen and thought he was a dishwasher. The producers sent him a series of twenty pictures taken over a twenty-five year period…all of them showing he and Christiansen together. Christiansen is even shown in pictures of Geestman’s own wedding. BELOW: Geestman being questioned by the Decoded cast. We later discovered that Geestman arranged the sale of a house to Christiansen just seven months after the hijacking, as well as a $5,000 cash loan to Geestman’s sister so she could move she and her four children out of the Geestman home. At the time, Ken Christiansen was only paid $512 (before taxes) from Northwest Airlines.

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BELOW: The author of this article back in 2009, when I was called upon to do something I had never done previously: Travel around the Northwest USA and seek out witnesses regarding Christiansen, and his possible involvement in the hijacking. Before this time, I was editing books and writing science fiction. My life was changed forever as a result of accepting the challenge from Skipp Porteous and Sherlock Investigations. The logic for taking the job was simple. Sherlock was based in New York, and I lived only a few miles from where Kenny Christiansen lived in Bonney Lake, WA. This led to a partnership that lasted until Porteous’ death in 2018, and it fell to me to write the final chapter on the investigation. Before Porteous’ death, he was made aware that the first movie on the Cooper case would be filmed, and the production companies planned to name Christiansen as the hijacker.

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BELOW: Skipp Porteous

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The investigation culminated with a 54-page report (with pictures) that was submitted to the Seattle FBI. I thought it was over, and we had gathered enough evidence against Christiansen, as well as his lifelong friend Bernie Geestman, to say there was at least a CASE for Christiansen being Cooper.

However, it’s impossible to lay out the evidence in a single post at Quora. You can’t boil down a complex report, a 90-minute video at YouTube, more evidence that came in AFTER we issued the FBI report, a book, a couple of TV shows, etc. in just a few lines of text. Instead of trying the impossible, I will present links to highlights of the investigation, and offer up a few evidentiary pictures.

  • DB Cooper at WordPress, which contains over 50 illustrated articles on both Christiansen and the Cooper case itself. Some of them are controversial.
  • The 90-minute video at YouTube presenting the evidence against both Christiansen and his friend Bernie Geestman, who we believe was an accomplice in the hijacking.
  • A short video at YouTube that was created in secret about the upcoming dramatic feature film on the Cooper hijacking, the first-ever full-length movie on the Cooper case. The production companies plan to name Kenny Christiansen as the hijacker, not as a ‘maybe,’ but a matter of historical record. They were granted access to all investigative files and images from the investigation, some of which were never made public.
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  • After four years of gentle convincing by me that her story should be told, the niece of alleged accomplice Bernie Geestman finally comes forward. Her story? She says she saw Kenny Christiansen constructing a phony bomb in her uncle’s garage only two weeks prior to the hijacking. The picture above was taken during the filming of a British documentary titled The Mystery of D.B. Cooper, which will be shown on HBO soon.

I try not to focus too much on disproving suspects.  Although I can.  However, in the KC case, today I will only offer this: It seems like a number of suspects have a group of retired FBI agents who support that suspect.  In the case of Reca, there are agents, and voice recognition experts, etc.  The Rackstraw team has a whole group of retired law enforcement too.  DB Cooper was one person.  He may have had help, but it was still just one guy.  So, all these suspects with FBI and other law enforcement backing simply can not all be DB Cooper.  Therefore, a large portion of these retired agents are wrong.  

Kenny has FBI agent Jarvis.  Peterson has FBI agent Mary something.  Reca too.  Rackstraw.  Even McCoy has an agent who claims he shot DB Cooper.

When Larry Carr comes out and puts his support behind a suspect, then I may start paying attention.

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Many agents claim McCoy was Cooper..

Agents opinions are not evidence.. 

Something I learned long ago is that opinions/conjecture is worthless without context. People can say anything.. what is really important is why they have that opinion.. what is their argument.. how did they reach that conclusion. Most of the time there is nothing there to back it up. The opinion itself it worthless without a well constructed argument. The worst thing one can do is to accept an opinion based on who claims it not why they claimed it. Always look beyond the claim..

Some opinions/conjecture are well founded, most are not.

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58 minutes ago, RobertMBlevins said:

Special Agent John Jarvis is not yet retired, as far as I know. You can look up his profile at FBI.gov. He is a 19-year veteran of the Bureau who works out of Quantico in the Behavioral Profiling division. Prior to that, he was a field agent. Troy Bentz, the whistleblower who approached us, is an engineer (civil service) for the US Navy. His two friends have similar jobs in the DC area and all have security clearances. 

Just saying. 

Robert-The suspect pool is full of supporters with current or former security clearances.  An 18 year old kid can join the Army and get a security clearance, so lets not use that as evidence of a suspect.  Edward Snowden had a security clearance.  The list of people like him goes on and on.

The name dropping in this case is laughable.  My uncle's neighbor's cousin's friend's father's Army buddy's dog was a FBI agent and he thinks xxx was DB Cooper.  CASE CLOSED!

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34 minutes ago, RobertMBlevins said:

You all missed the main point of what Jarvis told those people...he didn't say he 'thought' KC was Cooper, or even if that was his opinion. 

He gave a reason (presumably based on inside information from his job at Quantico) WHY the FBI closed the Cooper case in June (or so) of 2016. The incident with Jarvis happened in August, just a couple of months later. 

The staff of AB vetted this story EXTREMELY thoroughly, which was an easy task, since we were provided with the names of the other two witnesses, their jobs and where they worked in DC, their contact information. 

On a side note, Bentz' wife became extremely angry with him for telling us these things. She called him a whistleblower, and reminded him that THEIR kids went to swim team activities with the kids of both FBI agents and some military in the DC area. As a result of this, I kept his name out of it for over a year. We had agreed to that, in exchange for his testimony and the information he provided. 

Don't blame the messenger for the message, boys. It wasn't like I chased Bentz down, you know. He contacted us first. You don't want to believe the story? Then check it out for yourselves, or get some reporter to verify with Agent Jarvis. As far as our take on the story, we always wondered why they closed the case so suddenly. Maybe that's why. Remember, we were in contact with the Seattle FBI office for years, and sometimes they were very cooperative with us. (Pre-Marla Cooper) They got a 54 page report with pictures on Kenny. I have no idea what they did with it, but they certainly received it. I do know that. Maybe they actually DID do something with it. You never know. 

Because this story was vetted thoroughly by us, I have absolutely insisted it be incorporated into the upcoming movie on Cooper. I was very firm on this, and yes it will be used as evidence in the film. It was actually a borderline decision whether to release this information publicly or not. In the end I did, but I'm not sure it was a good decision or not. Several other pieces of evidence were NOT released publicly that will be incorporated into the film. I basically held the line with the Jarvis revelation. The other things were assigned to the production companies for their use. 

Let's face it. I couldn't give up the whole smash before the movie comes out. These production companies insisted on that. 

If KC was Cooper, why couldn't at least one of the three flight attendants recognize him in a picture?

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11 hours ago, RobertMBlevins said:

You all missed the main point of what Jarvis told those people...he didn't say he 'thought' KC was Cooper, or even if that was his opinion. 

He gave a reason (presumably based on inside information from his job at Quantico) WHY the FBI closed the Cooper case in June (or so) of 2016. The incident with Jarvis happened in August, just a couple of months later. 

The staff of AB vetted this story EXTREMELY thoroughly, which was an easy task, since we were provided with the names of the other two witnesses, their jobs and where they worked in DC, their contact information. 

 

Troy Bentz's perception is actually irrelevant...

If Cooper were alive he'd be in his 90's, most likely he has died... a reasonable assumption by Jarvis. 

Did you contact Jarvis, 

 

contact..

 

 

Edited by FLYJACK

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13 minutes ago, RobertMBlevins said:

Nope. No one would believe me anyway, even if Jarvis verified the incident happened, or even admitted he had inside information on why the FBI *really* dropped the Cooper case. 

I assisted in preparing a report on the information, released an article about the information at WordPress, and sent on a copy of our report to the production company(s). I did contact the Seattle FBI about it, though. They responded, saying maybe Jarvis was giving his opinion. They avoided saying it didn't happen, or that the Cooper case as far as they knew, was unsolved. I had asked them on the side to verify the case was still unsolved. They refused to answer that question. 

Any verification beyond what we have now should be done by either the FBI itself, or a legitimate news organization. They are free to do so if they wish. 

I have no problem if anyone else wants to try, though. One reason for the report is in case there IS an official denial. Bentz was extremely detailed telling us what happened. The report contains his original emails, and transcripts of his phone calls to us, the contact and other information regarding his two friends, and some personal references he provided. 

Should there be a denial of the incident, we would come back with that, as it were. 

Bentz's has no first hand evidence, his claim even if he is being honest is meaningless.

You need to pursue Jarvis's claim.

 

Edited by FLYJACK

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21 minutes ago, RobertMBlevins said:

Verification by ME would be meaningless and a waste of everyone's time.

No one would believe me anyway.

Verification, if any, needs to come from a neutral source. A news organization, maybe the production companies themselves. 

Let's face it, since this is being included as part of the evidence in a movie about Cooper, someone will get around to it. If there is a denial, then I would release the report to the organization, if any, who got the official denial. 

His email is right there in the link I posted, just ask him??

Why he thinks Cooper is dead.. easy assumption but does he have inside info.

and why he claimed it was inside job,, and what does that even mean exactly??

Was it a personal opinion?

What is the worst that he can say...

Edited by FLYJACK

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2 minutes ago, RobertMBlevins said:

I'm not going to quote your comments because they are not strictly accurate. And as I said, no one would believe any results I could possibly obtain, if any. It's a waste of everyone's time (including mine) to go after Jarvis in this matter. Other Cooper investigators called me a liar just for reporting that both Helen Jones and Margaret Geestman, in different locations, at different times, that KC owned a toupee that he wore only on social occasions, or when Bernie Geestman's sister identified the tie clip from the picture as one she had seen KC wear at different times. This incident is MUCH bigger than those. No one is going to believe any verification from ME. This needs to be done (as I said) by legit news media or the like. 

Better to just hold the report we made back in 2016 and wait.

Sooner or later, I have a feeling someone is going to want to see it. 

 

Ask him what you think is more accurate..

If it was Hahneman. I'd be all over it.. but, I am in a bit of a sensitive negotiation with the FBI right now..

 

You aren't doing this to prove anything to others, you do it for yourself. Who cares what others think. The result may be nothing,, or it may support your suspect or perhaps the case in general.

Do it, Blevins

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Is anyone an editor on Wikipedia? Can you help? I've noticed the second paragraph of the Wiki article on DB Cooper basically says he died in the jump.  The footnote reference is tied to an official FBI page.  Seems kind of wrong that the page says he died, and to prove it, they use a FBI site, the one group that wants everyone to believe he died.

I was under the impression that most skydivers and researchers think he probably survived, or at least are 50/50 on it.

When Wiki is the main site for info on Cooper for the majority of the public, and they see that he died, I think it reduces interest in the case.  If people thought he might be alive, it might raise interest.

This is what it says:

"Available evidence and a preponderance of expert opinion suggested from the beginning that Cooper probably did not survive his high-risk jump, but his remains have never been recovered"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D._B._Cooper

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33 minutes ago, CooperNWO305 said:

Is anyone an editor on Wikipedia? Can you help? I've noticed the second paragraph of the Wiki article on DB Cooper basically says he died in the jump.  The footnote reference is tied to an official FBI page.  Seems kind of wrong that the page says he died, and to prove it, they use a FBI site, the one group that wants everyone to believe he died.

I was under the impression that most skydivers and researchers think he probably survived, or at least are 50/50 on it.

When Wiki is the main site for info on Cooper for the majority of the public, and they see that he died, I think it reduces interest in the case.  If people thought he might be alive, it might raise interest.

This is what it says:

"Available evidence and a preponderance of expert opinion suggested from the beginning that Cooper probably did not survive his high-risk jump, but his remains have never been recovered"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D._B._Cooper

There is no evidence whatsoever to suggest that Cooper survived the jump.

 And you can dismiss Captain Bohan's claims out of hand.  Bohan may have taken off from SEATAC  four minutes after NWA 305 but he was probably on V-23 East and not V-23.

Further, Bohan's claim of an 80 knot wind from the southeast is nonsense.  At 10,000 feet, the hijacked airliner was experiencing a 30+ knot wind from the southwest.

In addition, Bohan's claim of an extreme cross wind on landing at Portland is not supported by the actual weather data.  The highest measured wind at Portland that day was about 10 knots which could easily be handled by any 16 year old student pilot.

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On 3/6/2020 at 12:37 PM, FLYJACK said:

Troy Bentz's perception is actually irrelevant...

If Cooper were alive he'd be in his 90's, most likely he has died... a reasonable assumption by Jarvis. 

Did you contact Jarvis, 

 

contact..

 

 

C'mon Flyjack. You know better than this. Blevins has all he needs from Jarvis. Why bother calling him and risk clarification that would refute the propaganda that he has put out there?

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9 hours ago, Robert99 said:

There is no evidence whatsoever to suggest that Cooper survived the jump.

 And you can dismiss Captain Bohan's claims out of hand.  Bohan may have taken off from SEATAC  four minutes after NWA 305 but he was probably on V-23 East and not V-23.

Further, Bohan's claim of an 80 knot wind from the southeast is nonsense.  At 10,000 feet, the hijacked airliner was experiencing a 30+ knot wind from the southwest.

In addition, Bohan's claim of an extreme cross wind on landing at Portland is not supported by the actual weather data.  The highest measured wind at Portland that day was about 10 knots which could easily be handled by any 16 year old student pilot.

R99-I don’t know where the Bohan stuff came into this.

You state that there is no evidence DB Cooper survived. 

What is the evidence that he died?

What evidence would be required to lean towards his survival?

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(edited)

10,000 foot jumping was the oxygen threshold in the Air Force training pamphlet AFP-10-3 (1960's).. Was Cooper in the Air Force??

Pamphlet can be read here.. many pages cover the 10,000 ft level...

http://www.chingchic.com/your-body-in-flight---afp-160-10-3-department-of-the-air-force.html

 

cooperAFpamphlet.jpeg.d2ce83bdb4e54e3aab8acedeba9b98c9.jpeg

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40-yourbodyinflightdeptofairforce1960-0040_orig.jpg.20be3444ba51a9e5856e6577dac52c62.jpg

Edited by FLYJACK

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4 hours ago, CooperNWO305 said:

R99-I don’t know where the Bohan stuff came into this.

You state that there is no evidence DB Cooper survived. 

What is the evidence that he died?

What evidence would be required to lean towards his survival?

Bohan apparently entered the picture at Himmelsbach's FBI retirement party which took place in 1980 and several weeks after the money was found at Tina Bar.  He is mentioned in Himmelsbach's book and no where else as far as I can find.

In reality, there is no conclusive proof either way that Cooper survived or died in the jump.  But based on secondary facts, such as the money find at Tina Bar and that none of the bills were ever found in circulation, etc., the probability is that Cooper died in the jump and that he jumped very near Tina Bar.

The simple fact that the FBI refuses to release the unredacted Seattle ATC radio transcripts for the airliner's flight is evidence that the FBI doesn't want anyone to know where Cooper actually jumped.  I tried to get those transcripts through FOIA actions.  But even with three Congressional interventions, my efforts were unsuccessful.     

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10 hours ago, haggarknew said:

I would be curious as to what he said also. Did you talk with him?

 

8 hours ago, RobertMBlevins said:

I'm sure you would.

Here's the deal, for real:  Due to the numerous, and mostly negative comments by other Cooper folk on other websites...who obviously read this thread due to their references on it in their comments...I have decided to cut Dropzone loose for a while.

That's balderdash, Robert. Those people have been heckling you for a long time. You should be used to it by now. Either laugh them off or stop reading them. There are people here who read your posts objectively. Don't throw attitude at us because of those yokels.

You said you had a line on that guy and that you were going to talk to him. That's interesting. You said you'd report what he had to say. Please do.

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4 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

10,000 foot jumping was the oxygen threshold

However it was then, for reference, here is how it is now. The FAA has various oxygen requirements that are based on a combination of altitude and exposure time. Based on those factors, oxygen must be: Available to the pilot, available to the passengers, required for the pilot, required for the passengers. The first altitude threshold for all of that is 14,000 ft MSL (above sea level).

That one page references jump altitudes at Elsinore. Typical sport jump altitude is 12,500 ft. That's pretty standard worldwide. However, those altitudes are AGL (above ground level). Elsinore has a field elevation of 1,253, so 12,500 AGL is just under 14,000 MSL. The exposure time is usually pretty short. No oxygen is required, and for most people no onset of hypoxia is felt.

One should be able to hang out at 10,000 AGL with no problems.

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