47 47
quade

DB Cooper

Recommended Posts

(edited)
52 minutes ago, Andrade1812 said:

It would be incredible if Cooper got the military chutes from McChord and not one of Hayden's...

To think the FBI ignored at least half a dozen parachute finds because they didn't match their now called-into-question records...

Cooper did not take one of Hayden's back chutes..

The year and serial number on the packing card found in the pocket of the back chute left on the plane doesn't match the one Hayden got back.. the packing dates and packer Cossey do match indicated they are the pair from Hayden.. both of Hayden's chutes are accounted for.

So, Cooper used another..  Cossey's or McChord's?

Edited by FLYJACK

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
(edited)
45 minutes ago, FLYJACK said:

Cooper did not take one of Hayden's back chutes..

The year and serial number on the packing card found in the pocket of the back chute left on the plane doesn't match the one Hayden got back.. the packing dates and packer Cossey do match indicated they are the pair from Hayden.. both of Hayden's chutes are accounted for.

So, Cooper took Cossey's or McChord's..  

Flyjack, cut the nonsense! 

First, Cooper specifically ruled out parachutes coming from McChord and with good reason.  Military parachutes in 1971 carried pingers so that air rescue people could locate the parachutist even before he hit the ground.

Second, no mention is made of military static line parachutes in Cooper's demands and they are certainly not sports parachutes.  They would have been useless to Cooper.

Third, there is no confusion about where the chest pack reserve parachutes came from.  They were delivered to the NWA cargo facility at SEATAC by a Washington State Highway Patrolman shortly after 5:00 PM and were the last of Cooper's demands to arrive.

Fourth, the Hayden parachutes may, repeat may, have been sent initially to a Boeing facility at Boeing Field rather than SEATAC.  But they found their way to SEATAC in short order and were the ones placed on the airliner.  There were no other back pack parachutes involved.

Fifth, Hayden got one of his parachutes back and the FBI paid him for the one that Cooper used in his jump.

All Flyjack is trying to do is make this another of his "bundle" or "packet" kind of arguments. 

Edited by Robert99

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
(edited)
38 minutes ago, Robert99 said:

Flyjack, cut the nonsense! 

First, Cooper specifically ruled out parachutes coming from McChord and with good reason.  Military parachutes in 1971 carried pingers so that air rescue people could locate the parachutist even before he hit the ground.

Second, no mention is made of military static line parachutes in Cooper's demands and they are certainly not sports parachutes.  They would have been useless to Cooper.

Third, there is no confusion about where the chest pack reserve parachutes came from.  They were delivered to the NWA cargo facility at SEATAC by a Washington State Highway Patrolman shortly after 5:00 PM and were the last of Cooper's demands to arrive.

Fourth, the Hayden parachutes may, repeat may, have been sent initially to a Boeing facility at Boeing Field rather than SEATAC.  But they found their way to SEATAC in short order and were the ones placed on the airliner.  There were no other back pack parachutes involved.

Fifth, Hayden got one of his parachutes back and the FBI paid him for the one that Cooper used in his jump.

All Flyjack is trying to do is make this another of his "bundle" or "packet" kind of arguments. 

Robert99,

Get a grip, your comments are way off the mark and demonstrate a level of ignorance I don't expect from you. You are conflating my comments with the "conflicting" reports I quoted.

I am trying to sort this out. 

PAY ATTENTION ROBERT99.... you are embarrassing yourself.

Himmelsbach said Cooper requested chutes from McChord..  ???

Then Tina told Cooper the chutes were coming from McChord and he said it shouldn't take that long... So, he CLEARLY thought the military chutes were coming from McChord. Then when did he reject them? IF he did.

The news article claimed Cooper rejected the McChord chutes because they were static line. That doesn't make any sense..  NOBODY ever said Cooper demanded static chutes.

Yes, the front reserves came from Sky Sports via state Trooper, nobody is challenging that. This is about the back chutes only.

Hayden did send in his two chutes by cab. He received back one he thought was left on the plane but the packing cards DO NOT MATCH. Get it, Cooper did not jump with either of Hayden's chutes.. There must have been another set of back chutes from either Cossey or McChord.

Two similar back chutes were sent from Hayden by cab. Both packed by Cossey the same date.

1) Packed by Cossey May 21/71 manufactured 1960 S/N 60-9707. This was left on the plane confirmed by card found in chute pocket.

2) Packed by Cossey May 21/71 manufactured 1957 S/N 226. Confirmed by packing card in chute. This was returned to Hayden then went to museum.

 

Both of Hayden's chutes are accounted for.... what did Cooper jump with???

 

Edited by FLYJACK

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
(edited)

Parachutes...

 

Robert, if you've got someone looking into the Sky Sports angle, it would be interesting if he can figure how they ended up with that dummy training reserve. Typically there are a few places you'd find parachutes at a drop zone. One, in the rigging loft, where you'd find reserves that are due for repacks, or other gear in need of maintenance. The rigger might keep his personal gear there. Two, if there are regular instructors, there might be a 'locker' type area where they keep their personal gear; otherwise they would just take their gear home with them. If there is a separate area where the pilots' stuff is kept, that might be where you'd find the bailout rigs. Jump pilots in smaller planes are required to wear them, the pilots in bigger planes don't need to wear them, but bailout rigs are kept on board and available to the pilots. Those rigs might also be kept in the loft. The main place you'd find gear, though, would be where they keep the student gear. The drop zone keeps and supplies the gear for student jumpers. If the drop zone was asked for gear for a hijacking, what would make sense to me would be that they would give student gear. It's nobody's personal gear and in those days would have been relatively cheap. That dummy reserve should be nowhere near any of those places. That should be kept in the classroom or training area. Normally there's a hanging harness somewhere where the students practice their emergency procedures, and that's where that dummy reserve would be used. There should be no way that that training aid could get mixed up with actual gear. Could you imagine if that thing got put on a student for an actual jump? I have a thought that that dummy reserve might have been given on purpose. There's the theory that Cooper asked for two complete rigs so that they would give him good ones (not sabotaged) for fear that he might make Tina jump with him. Perhaps they gave him the dummy reserve to discourage that.

 

The McChord military rigs - I had not heard that Cooper had requested gear from them, but I had heard that he had rejected the idea. What makes sense to me is that any military/paratrooper gear would indeed be set up for static line, which would be useless to him. He certainly would not have requested static line gear, but he would have rejected it. Perhaps McChord then sent bailout rigs, because they're ripcord rigs.

 

The backpack gear. It's curious to me that he didn't get any sport mains, but that he got bailout rigs. Now, whuffos don't know the difference in gear, so it's certainly feasible for the FBI guy to just go to the local Flight Service and ask about chutes, somebody there knows Hayden and gets them from him. But it is curious that it doesn't occur to Hayden or the Flight Service guy that 'that''s probably not what he's looking for'. But if any backpacks come from Cossey or the drop zone, they certainly would know the difference, that the bailout rigs aren't suitable for an intentional jump, and not compatible with the front reserves. Also, I can't imagine that if the drop zone is asked for just the front reserves, they wouldn't ask where the mains are coming from. I suppose the same thought is possible here, that they give him totally inappropriate gear so that he doesn't make Tina jump.

 

Nobody else seems to give any credence to Flyjack's theory about both of Hayden's chutes being accounted for, but I do. Pack-and-data cards are federal documents. They stay with the gear. They include the make, model, date-of-manufacture and serial number of the parachute inside. If the numbers don't match between the rig left on the plane and the one Hayden got back, then they're not the same rig. Also, the way that the FBI deals with 'evidence' (just consider the Amboy chute), I can't imagine that they would give back the rig that was left on the plane. I would imagine they still have that.

 

Edited by dudeman17

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, RobertMBlevins said:

I have waded through the parachute posts:

I will admit there SEEMS to be a conflict here regarding the number of parachutes actually delivered to the airport. But the FBI doc is confusing. Why do they make time references like 12:25 AM and 2:00AM? The hijacking happened in the late afternoon, and the whole thing was over (Cooper jumped) prior to 8:30PM. That's pretty weird unless they were going by Greenwich Mean time or something. 

I'll be honest. I don't think it matters a whole lot how many chutes were delivered to SeaTac, but only if the one Cooper jumped with, should it be discovered...can be identified. Otherwise it's much like if either four, six, or eight meals were delivered to the plane, and which one Cooper ate, if any of them. It doesn't really matter. Chutes were delivered. One was used. The dummy reserve probably went out the back door. I don't see much importance here in this issue, unless there is a discrepancy, a failure-to-identify, if someone at some future date finds a parachute in the right place. 

The reason it matters is because the FBI may have been looking for the wrong chute the whole time..

One of the chutes already found may have been the one Cooper used but was prematurely rejected because it didn't match the description.

The two packing cards show that Cooper did not use either of Hayden's chutes, that leaves Cossey's chute claim or even possibly chutes from McChord.

 

One piece of evidence really makes me wonder..

Tina told Cooper the chutes were coming from McChord, Cooper said it shouldn't take long..

So, Cooper clearly thought they were coming from McChord and military..  when did he reject them?, I don't think he did. Cooper thought the chutes he ultimately received came from McChord, even if they didn't.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
(edited)
1 hour ago, dudeman17 said:

Parachutes...

 

Robert, if you've got someone looking into the Sky Sports angle, it would be interesting if he can figure how they ended up with that dummy training reserve. Typically there are a few places you'd find parachutes at a drop zone. One, in the rigging loft, where you'd find reserves that are due for repacks, or other gear in need of maintenance. The rigger might keep his personal gear there. Two, if there are regular instructors, there might be a 'locker' type area where they keep their personal gear; otherwise they would just take their gear home with them. If there is a separate area where the pilots' stuff is kept, that might be where you'd find the bailout rigs. Jump pilots in smaller planes are required to wear them, the pilots in bigger planes don't need to wear them, but bailout rigs are kept on board and available to the pilots. Those rigs might also be kept in the loft. The main place you'd find gear, though, would be where they keep the student gear. The drop zone keeps and supplies the gear for student jumpers. If the drop zone was asked for gear for a hijacking, what would make sense to me would be that they would give student gear. It's nobody's personal gear and in those days would have been relatively cheap. That dummy reserve should be nowhere near any of those places. That should be kept in the classroom or training area. Normally there's a hanging harness somewhere where the students practice their emergency procedures, and that's where that dummy reserve would be used. There should be no way that that training aid could get mixed up with actual gear. Could you imagine if that thing got put on a student for an actual jump? I have a thought that that dummy reserve might have been given on purpose. There's the theory that Cooper asked for two complete rigs so that they would give him good ones (not sabotaged) for fear that he might make Tina jump with him. Perhaps they gave him the dummy reserve to discourage that.

 

The McChord military rigs - I had not heard that Cooper had requested gear from them, but I had heard that he had rejected the idea. What makes sense to me is that any military/paratrooper gear would indeed be set up for static line, which would be useless to him. He certainly would not have requested static line gear, but he would have rejected it. Perhaps McChord then sent bailout rigs, because they're ripcord rigs.

 

The backpack gear. It's curious to me that he didn't get any sport mains, but that he got bailout rigs. Now, whuffos don't know the difference in gear, so it's certainly feasible for the FBI guy to just go to the local Flight Service and ask about chutes, somebody there knows Hayden and gets them from him. But it is curious that it doesn't occur to Hayden or the Flight Service guy that 'that''s probably not what he's looking for'. But if any backpacks come from Cossey or the drop zone, they certainly would know the difference, that the bailout rigs aren't suitable for an intentional jump, and not compatible with the front reserves. Also, I can't imagine that if the drop zone is asked for just the front reserves, they wouldn't ask where the mains are coming from. I suppose the same thought is possible here, that they give him totally inappropriate gear so that he doesn't make Tina jump.

 

Nobody else seems to give any credence to Flyjack's theory about both of Hayden's chutes being accounted for, but I do. Pack-and-data cards are federal documents. They stay with the gear. They include the make, model, date-of-manufacture and serial number of the parachute inside. If the numbers don't match between the rig left on the plane and the one Hayden got back, then they're not the same rig. Also, the way that the FBI deals with 'evidence' (just consider the Amboy chute), I can't imagine that they would give back the rig that was left on the plane. I would imagine they still have that.

 

Let me say up front that I don't have the slightest idea how the bad reserve was given to Cooper.  But consider that the hijacking took place a few minutes after 3:00 PM PST and the reserves were in the NWA cargo facility by about 5:15 PM.  Also, the delivery of the reserves was delayed by heavy PM commuter traffic and apparently at least one traffic accident.  But I imagine that the WSHP made the entire run with his red lights on.

There is no indication of when the sky diver place was asked to provide the reserve chutes but it was probably at least 3:30 PM.  And it was probably a 30 minute drive under the existing circumstances to SEATAC.  This leaves about 75 minutes for the sky diver place to act or react.  Further, sunset was at about 4:45 PM, it was overcast with light rain, the late afternoon before a holiday, and I doubt if any of the sky diver trainers, or experienced jumpers, were at the facility.  I'll bet that anyone who kept their equipment at the sky diver facility kept it in a locker and locked up tight. 

So all of this leads me to suggest that probably only the office staff (maybe a couple of people) was still at the facility and they were hard pressed to find any reserve that wasn't locked up. They probably spotted the bad reserve, didn't know what the "X" meant, and thought they had solved one of their problems. 

Hayden reportedly kept his aircraft at the Boeing Airport, which is where the aviation museum is located.  Presumably, that is where Boeing Flight Services was located and their personnel were familiar with Hayden and his equipment.  So they call Hayden about his parachutes, Hayden sends them to Boeing Flight Services by taxi, and they presumably got them over to SEATAC by taxi or their own vehicles.

Boeing Flight Services may, or may not, have been the ones who contacted the sky diver operation about the reserve chutes.  There is no reason to believe that the FBI, other law enforcement agency, or NWA personnel at SEATAC, would be knowledgeable about the parachute equipment.

Frankly, I do not see a problem with the parachutes.    

  

Edited by Robert99

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
(edited)
3 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

The reason it matters is because the FBI may have been looking for the wrong chute the whole time..

One of the chutes already found may have been the one Cooper used but was prematurely rejected because it didn't match the description.

The two packing cards show that Cooper did not use either of Hayden's chutes, that leaves Cossey's chute claim or even possibly chutes from McChord.

 

One piece of evidence really makes me wonder..

Tina told Cooper the chutes were coming from McChord, Cooper said it shouldn't take long..

So, Cooper clearly thought they were coming from McChord and military..  when did he reject them?, I don't think he did. Cooper thought the chutes he ultimately received came from McChord, even if they didn't.

 

The FBI has rejected several pieces of parachute canopies as not having anything to do with the Cooper hijacking.  Some of those could be rejected on sight.  They had the wrong type canopy fabric, maybe wrong manufacturing stamps, or other issues that could immediately eliminate them from further consideration.  I do not see a problem here.

There is nothing to suggest that Cooper thought the back pack parachutes came from McChord.  He had earlier rejected McChord parachutes.  Cooper reportedly checked the packing cards in the back packs and should have been able to tell that they were not packed by the military or owned by the military.  And if all else fails on this point, check Cossey's packing logbook.  And again, I do not see a problem here.

Edited by Robert99

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, RobertMBlevins said:

I have waded through the parachute posts:

I will admit there SEEMS to be a conflict here regarding the number of parachutes actually delivered to the airport. But the FBI doc is confusing. Why do they make time references like 12:25 AM and 2:00AM? The hijacking happened in the late afternoon, and the whole thing was over (Cooper jumped) prior to 8:30PM. That's pretty weird unless they were going by Greenwich Mean time or something. 

I'll be honest. I don't think it matters a whole lot how many chutes were delivered to SeaTac, but only if the one Cooper jumped with, should it be discovered...can be identified. Otherwise it's much like if either four, six, or eight meals were delivered to the plane, and which one Cooper ate, if any of them. It doesn't really matter. Chutes were delivered. One was used. The dummy reserve probably went out the back door. I don't see much importance here in this issue, unless there is a discrepancy, a failure-to-identify, if someone at some future date finds a parachute in the right place. 

GMT is 8 hours ahead of PST.  The Air Traffic Control recordings automatically recorded in GMT.  So you would have to subtract 8 hours to get the PST time.  Be sure to double check the time hacks on the ARINC teletype messages to insure that you are using the right time.

It should be kept in mind that the FBI were not able to contact Cossey until after midnight (or very early on November 25th).

There is absolutely nothing to suggest that more than 4 parachutes total were delivered to SEATAC and none of them came from McChord.

Only 4 meals were delivered to the aircraft and none of them were eaten.  Reportedly, the search dogs in Reno ate them.

Cooper would probably have had a better chance of surviving if he discarded the dummy reserve.  With a jury rigged dummy reserve, a money bag, and maybe other things tied to himself, he would be very aerodynamically unstable. 

  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

Robert99,

Get a grip, your comments are way off the mark and demonstrate a level of ignorance I don't expect from you. You are conflating my comments with the "conflicting" reports I quoted.

I am trying to sort this out. 

PAY ATTENTION ROBERT99.... you are embarrassing yourself.

Himmelsbach said Cooper requested chutes from McChord..  ???

Then Tina told Cooper the chutes were coming from McChord and he said it shouldn't take that long... So, he CLEARLY thought the military chutes were coming from McChord. Then when did he reject them? IF he did.

The news article claimed Cooper rejected the McChord chutes because they were static line. That doesn't make any sense..  NOBODY ever said Cooper demanded static chutes.

Yes, the front reserves came from Sky Sports via state Trooper, nobody is challenging that. This is about the back chutes only.

Hayden did send in his two chutes by cab. He received back one he thought was left on the plane but the packing cards DO NOT MATCH. Get it, Cooper did not jump with either of Hayden's chutes.. There must have been another set of back chutes from either Cossey or McChord.

Two similar back chutes were sent from Hayden by cab. Both packed by Cossey the same date.

1) Packed by Cossey May 21/71 manufactured 1960 S/N 60-9707. This was left on the plane confirmed by card found in chute pocket.

2) Packed by Cossey May 21/71 manufactured 1957 S/N 226. Confirmed by packing card in chute. This was returned to Hayden then went to museum.

 

Both of Hayden's chutes are accounted for.... what did Cooper jump with???

 

Hayden reportedly had to go to court to get his remaining back pack parachute from the FBI.  Also, the FBI reportedly paid Hayden about $40 for the parachute that Cooper jumped with.  So just exactly what is your problem here.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Robert99 said:

Hayden reportedly had to go to court to get his remaining back pack parachute from the FBI.  Also, the FBI reportedly paid Hayden about $40 for the parachute that Cooper jumped with.  So just exactly what is your problem here.

Finally, you answer the question and demonstrate that you have no idea what we have been discussing. You don't see a problem because you have no idea what is going on.

If you had actually read my post.. the packing cards DON'T match. The packing card found in the pocket of the back chute left on the plane doesn't match the card in the chute returned to Hayden. That means Cooper did not jump with either of Hayden's chutes. So, which chute did Cooper jump with???

 

I am not going to waste any more time explaining this to you, the info has already been posted in this thread or better you can do your own homework. 

From your last few posts you have so much messed up that I am not interested in unwinding for you.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, FLYJACK said:

Finally, you answer the question and demonstrate that you have no idea what we have been discussing. You don't see a problem because you have no idea what is going on.

If you had actually read my post.. the packing cards DON'T match. The packing card found in the pocket of the back chute left on the plane doesn't match the card in the chute returned to Hayden. That means Cooper did not jump with either of Hayden's chutes. So, which chute did Cooper jump with???

 

I am not going to waste any more time explaining this to you, the info has already been posted in this thread or better you can do your own homework. 

From your last few posts you have so much messed up that I am not interested in unwinding for you.

 

 

Flyjack, just for the record how about posting a picture of or listing the source for the following:

1.  The packing card for Hayden's parachute that was returned to him.

2.  The packing card for Hayden's parachute that went missing.

3.  The packing card for the parachute that was left on the airplane.    

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
(edited)
8 hours ago, Robert99 said:

Flyjack, just for the record how about posting a picture of or listing the source for the following:

1.  The packing card for Hayden's parachute that was returned to him.

2.  The packing card for Hayden's parachute that went missing.

3.  The packing card for the parachute that was left on the airplane.    

Go find it yourself, I have posted it and explained it many many times,,, just search this forum or go find it yourself.

You are ignorant, rude and have disrespected me for a long time,, the problem ROBERT99 is you.. you are incapable of reason.

I explained repeatedly the difference between packets and bundles and the confusion and misunderstanding it created,, YOU and GEORGER could not understand a simple fact and from that position of ignorance you attacked and ridiculed me.. YOU STILL DON'T GET IT.

 

So, forgive me if I don't give a crap.. I don't have the patience to unwind the misinformation, inconsistencies and sheer conjecture you have expressed as fact in your recent comments here and elsewhere. You have hardened opinions backed up with and elixir of arrogance and ignorance.

 

DO YOUR OWN HOMEWORK...

 

 

 

 

Edited by FLYJACK

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am trying to sort the conflicting information about the McChord parachutes... other than Tina's interview statement, McChord chutes are not mentioned in the FBI files.

 

1) Cooper asked for chutes from McChord? Himmelsbach.

2) Cooper rejected chutes from McChord and requested sport chutes? When and how, conflicts with 4.

3) Cooper chose the military chute? Conflicts with 2 

4) Tina told Cooper the chutes were coming from McChord, Cooper noted the distance to McCord? Cooper thought they were coming from McChord.

 

If Cooper thought they were coming from McChord then when did he reject them and how?.. how can he be expecting them from McChord (fact) then reject them for sport chutes.

IMO, something is being hidden here.... it makes no sense.

I don't think Cooper did reject them.. it is made up. For some reason the FBI decided to obtained the chutes elsewhere and told Tina/Cooper they were coming from McChord as Cooper had requested. 

 

So, why did the FBI not get chutes from McChord? The static line chute excuse is a red herring. Surely, McChord would have bailout rigs.

 

Are there any other sources of information??

 

sources..

FBI part 26 #8883

In one of the conversations she had with him, she re-
marked that the parachutes were coming from McChord Air Force
Base at which time he remarked that it was only about twenty
minutes from McChord to the Seattle-Tacoma airport and which
was apparently an accurate estimate., 
 

Himmelsbach..

"He specifically asked for parachutes from nearby McChord Air Force Base, showing some familiarity with the area.”

 

Tina interview.. FBI files

While waiting on the ground at Sea-Tac for the parachutes, the hijacker became annoyed and Miss MUCKLOW told him the parachutes were coming from McChord. The hi-jacker then said, “McChord is only 20 minutes from Tacoma; it doesn't take that long."

 

News report..

Cooper at first had ordered two parachutes, which were brought out from McChord. They were the military type, which must be opened wtth a static cord linked to the plane. It would open the chute after western Washington state to a 200-foot fall. 
Cooper then ordered two more. Airline officials did not say whether Cooper specific the type, but the second set were sports models, obtained at a skydiving field east os Seattle. A sports ‘chute would allow a man to free-fall several thousand feet before opening the parachute.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
(edited)
12 hours ago, RobertMBlevins said:

 

EDIT: I said Hayden got a lawyer to write a letter, and this happened AFTER 2008. My bad. I do NOT know when Hayden actually had his chute returned to him, because I did not ask. I assumed it was around that time because Bruce Smith and I interviewed Hayden close to the same time. I called up Hayden for additional questions AFTER I saw the post by Bruce, the one on Mountain News with pictures. But I never asked Hayden exactly when he arranged for the chute's return. The rest of my post is accurate. 

Hayden got his chute back in 1975... He only requested one because he thought the FBI only had one (of his) left.

parachutereturnedhayden.jpeg.771ca91174665e96eef315f3eb255481.jpeg

haydenaskchutes.jpeg.41feb60965d79860bc6c7417f65fa424.jpeg

 

Edited by FLYJACK

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It is a myth that Cooper removed the packing card..

Cooper was handed chute "instructions" from Tina and threw them away.. this got conflated ,, there is no source or evidence that Cooper removed a packing card. The packing card for the back chute left on the plane was found inside the pocket.

 

377 quote..

"Ckret told me ages ago that he was unaware of any witness statements about Cooper locating and reading rigger data cards on any of the rigs."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 hours ago, Andrade1812 said:

It's available on Kindle and in hard copy on Amazon. If you pm me I can dropship a copy to you. I used to give out the pdf version but I'm currently editing another edition, so I've stopped doing that until I finish the revisions.

I know of a show that you could go on to promote your updated book.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
(edited)

Here it is...

Emerick picked out the front chutes himself...

So, how did Emerick pick a dummy chute with an X on it?? Sound reasonable?

https://www.newspapers.com/newspage/21027116/

"According to Linn Emrick, who supplied one of the four parachutes handed over to the hijacker, one of the two parachutes apparently used in the jump was inoperable. Emrick, of Sky Sports Inc., Issauah, Wash., said the 'chute was for ground practice only and the canopy was sewn shut. "I didn't know It when I went over, and picked it out," he said,"

https://www.newspapers.com/newspage/435301054/

One of two missing parachutes would not have worked, it was disclosed yesterday. Linn Emrick, a sport parachutist who supplied it, said he inadvertently picked a "ground training" chute when airport officials asked him for one to supplement two chutes furnished by the Air Force. The other supplementary chute was supplied by Renton Aviation. Its manufacturer said it would "work fine.”

 

Edited by FLYJACK

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
(edited)
31 minutes ago, RobertMBlevins said:

Okay, stop. Stop NOW. Hold the train, let the signal light stay red...

Two from McChord AFB. 
Two from Norman Hayden.
Two from Linn Emerick. 
Two more from Earl Cossey. 

We have now doubled the number of chutes supposedly delivered to the airport...the only thing that seems to be consistent in all of these reports, interviews, files, etc. is that only four chutes were actually provided to the hijacker. In other words, Mucklow only dragged four chutes on board the jet. This situation is pretty confusing to all parties I would say. 

No, step back,

Four delivered to plane.. two fronts and two backs.

 

Two backs sent in from Hayden confirmed.

Two fronts from Sky Sports/Emerick confirmed.

 

Hayden's two accounted for based on packing cards.. What did Cooper use?

One of Hayden's left on plane..

 

Cooper used one from either..

Two from McChord (unconfirmed).

Two from Cossey (suspected).

Edited by FLYJACK

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

So, how did Emerick pick a dummy chute with an X on it?? Sound reasonable?

According to that info, it sounds like Emrick only supplied one of the front-mounts, the other coming from a Renton Aviation.

But to the question, that doesn't sound reasonable to me at all. Emrick was a skydiver (was he an instructor?) and the drop zone owner. He set up the dz and owned all the student gear. He would absolutely know the difference between all the rigs and training aids. For him to say he didn't realize it at the time sounds like a cover-yer-ass statement.

Pure speculation here... I speculated earlier that perhaps the dummy reserve was given to Cooper to discourage him from making Tina jump. But Emrick probably didn't know anything about that situation at the time. Same for the later notion of Cooper becoming something of a folk hero. Emrick is asked for a chute to give to a hijacker in an era when there were a fair amount of politically motivated hijackings done by terrorist types. Perhaps he gives that dummy reserve because it's the cheapest, most disposable thing he's got, and who gives a crap if it doesn't work and the guy goes in.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, dudeman17 said:

According to that info, it sounds like Emrick only supplied one of the front-mounts, the other coming from a Renton Aviation.

But to the question, that doesn't sound reasonable to me at all. Emrick was a skydiver (was he an instructor?) and the drop zone owner. He set up the dz and owned all the student gear. He would absolutely know the difference between all the rigs and training aids. For him to say he didn't realize it at the time sounds like a cover-yer-ass statement.

Pure speculation here... I speculated earlier that perhaps the dummy reserve was given to Cooper to discourage him from making Tina jump. But Emrick probably didn't know anything about that situation at the time. Same for the later notion of Cooper becoming something of a folk hero. Emrick is asked for a chute to give to a hijacker in an era when there were a fair amount of politically motivated hijackings done by terrorist types. Perhaps he gives that dummy reserve because it's the cheapest, most disposable thing he's got, and who gives a crap if it doesn't work and the guy goes in.

I'm thinking some of the same things as you dudeman.  I've said it before and will repeat it. Storing a dummy chute anywhere near a real chute is akin to storing cyanide tablets in your medicine cabinet next to your aspirin.  You just don't do it.

Something about a dummy chute smells bad to me.  Sending Cooper a dummy chute is not something out of the realm of possibility.  The FBI had snipers ready to shoot him, why not try to kill him with a dummy chute, or like dudeman said, try to make it so he can't take a hostage?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
(edited)
1 hour ago, CooperNWO305 said:

I'm thinking some of the same things as you dudeman.  I've said it before and will repeat it. Storing a dummy chute anywhere near a real chute is akin to storing cyanide tablets in your medicine cabinet next to your aspirin.  You just don't do it.

Something about a dummy chute smells bad to me.  Sending Cooper a dummy chute is not something out of the realm of possibility.  The FBI had snipers ready to shoot him, why not try to kill him with a dummy chute, or like dudeman said, try to make it so he can't take a hostage?

Maybe it was a delay tactic.. with the X on it they thought Cooper would notice, realize it was a dummy and perhaps request a replacement. They didn't expect him to use it.

Hard to believe Emerick would grab a dummy by mistake..

The good front reserve was also from Sky Sports..

From CitizenSleuths..

FBI Transcript: “ORANGE CHEST PARACHUTE, 24 FOOT RIP STOP, TYPE SN DA5853912. DATE OF MANUFACTURE 10/59. OWNER-SEATTLE SKY SPORTS, ISSAQUAH, WASHINGTON INSPECTED AND REPACKED 9/16/71 BY E.J. COSSEY. THREE SHROUD CORDS CUT”

 

Edited by FLYJACK

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
(edited)

From Bruce Smith interview with Hayden..

"In addition, Barry supports Norman’s claim that as far as they know, both back chutes were identical.  In fact, Norman seemed a bit dismayed about bureaucratic in-accuracies when I read aloud the FBI description of the two back parachutes and their many differences."

 

FBI..

 1.  Civilian luxury type, tan soft cotton material outside, 26 foot while canopy inside.  The parachute inside is a military parachute.  The parachute has a  foam pad cushion and a fray mark down the rib on the back from rubbing on metal.

 2.  A military backpack parachute, standard olive drab green on outside, a 28 foot white canopy on inside.  He (Norman Hayden) stated that this parachute also has a foam pad cushion.

 

Hayden also said he never spoke to the FBI about the chutes though they quote him in the files.

The FBI descriptions match Cossey's description of his two chutes, not Hayden's.

Cossey claimed a Pioneer and a modified NB8..

 

 

Edited by FLYJACK

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here is my take on this putting together the incomplete and seemingly conflicting info we have so far.. it may change if more info can be found.

 

Cooper asks for two military back chutes from McChord. 

Cooper updates his demand to 4 chutes - two back and two chest reserve chutes. 

McChord is contacted but for some reason McChord can't get the right chutes. (maybe the FBI wanted back chutes with no D rings for the chest reserve and dummy so they couldn't be used)

Hayden is contacted, he sends by cab two identical back chutes, both packed by Cossey May 21, 1971. 

Cossey is contacted, he sends in a Pioneer and an NB8 from his home by cab. 

Linn Emerick is contacted at Issaquah Sky Sports he grabs a front reserve and a dummy front reserve, the police transport them. Both packed by Cossey. 

The FBI tells Crew/Tina chutes are coming from McChord, Cooper still believes chutes coming from McChord. 

Chutes arrive at a staging area and are mingled, the two front reserve chutes, Hayden's Pioneer and one of Cossey's chutes are sent to the plane. 

Cooper tosses instructions sent with chutes.. he did not remove/look at the packing cards.

Cooper leaves behind a Pioneer back chute and the good front reserve.

Cooper jumps with one a back chute. The front dummy goes missing.

Cossey is told by the FBI that a Pioneer was left behind, he assumes Cooper used his modified NB8.

(The Pioneer left behind was Hayden's based on the packing date, Cossey thought his Pioneer was left behind)

Hayden believing Cooper used his chute requested the one left behind on the plane, it was returned to him in 1975.

The packing card for the chute Hayden received back doesn't match the packing card found in the pocket of chute Cooper left on the plane. Both of Hayden's chutes are accounted for after the hijacking. Hayden claimed both his chutes were identical. The FBI description of the chutes matches Cossey's description of his chutes, not Hayden's.

 

 

Cooper used one of Cossey's back chutes.. He assumed it was the NB8 based on the fact that a Pioneer was left behind which he thought was his other chute.. it was Hayden's.

----------------

Cossey may have messed with reporters, perhaps he was instructed by the FBI to hold back some info but I really doubt he spent decades lying to the FBI, a serious felony easily exposed by them. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Bruce's interview with Hayden is solid, he quoted Hayden and published it..

You have no evidence anything in that interview is false or you would have pointed it out,, attacking somebody's cred in general isn't a good argument when you can't show a falsehood. What is important in that interview are the statements by Hayden.

My take fits all the evidence we have, it may not be exact but it is close..

 

You make a serious error, repeatedly, there is NO conflict between Hayden and Cossey. Their stories are compatible from each of their perspectives at the time.. Neither knows if their chutes went on the plane.. they both assumed.

You actually think the FBI doesn't care if a major witness lies in a high profile case for decades undermining the case.. seriously.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

47 47