47 47
quade

DB Cooper

Recommended Posts

11 hours ago, RobertMBlevins said:

Well, let's just say her testimony became more interesting when she got around to the part about Kenny (through her brother) loaning her five thousand dollars only five months after the hijacking... B)

When her brother got wind of all this, he called her up and told her to take it all back. She refused, but also wouldn't go on TV against her brother. 

Nobody's asking you to believe any of the testimony by the people who ended up in that report to the FBI. It is what it is. It's all available as a free download in its entirety at the main AB website. I let people judge for themselves. 

It is just a matter evaluating evidence.. I have the same variability with Hahneman evidence. Hijacking a 727 for ransom and jumping out the rear stairs carries weight. Latin and swarthy carries weight. Hahneman also said , "don't try anything funny" Cooper said "no funny stuff.. it is interesting and worth noting but carries little weight..

Hahneman was estranged from his family and showed up for Christmas 1971. He gave his young son fishing gear claiming it was from the far East. Hahneman was a frequent liar so it was unlikely from the Far East. The Raleigh cigarette coupon book has fishing tackle in it.. This is interesting and worth noting but carries virtually no weight.

raleighcouponfishing.jpg.9403a013a8ab56af69250bf266ba4f65.jpg

 

Edited by FLYJACK

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 hours ago, RobertMBlevins said:

I never asked her anything about the hijacking or the clip. I asked her if the picture meant anything to her....she volunteered the rest. Big difference. Doing what you suggest would be called 'leading the witness'. I tried hard not to lead witnesses in my interviews, or even say the truth on why I was asking about Kenny, at least at first. You get better, and more honest results that way. If what she says is true, she probably saw Kenny wearing that tie clasp dozens of times, which could be why she remembered it. 

Who was the witness that you left all of your evidence with while you went and ate lunch. Then, after she looked at all of your evidence, you went back and interviewed her?

No way that you get "better and more honest" results that way.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I do not believe that Richard McCoy was Cooper. However, I have always thought that if McCoy had not gotten caught, and we were sitting here today talking about two unsolved hijackings instead of just the one, that most people would probably be of the thought that they were done by the same person. Now, maybe there was enough there that the FBI could have determined that not to be the case. Obviously there would be nothing in the way of fingerprints or physical evidence to link the two. But it's something interesting to think about. How differently would we look at the Cooper case? I wonder how much circumstantial evidence a guy like Blevins (and others) could round up to tie their guy to both hijackings?

I've brought this up in the past and most people didn't agree with me. Oh well. 

Edited by ParrotheadVol

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, ParrotheadVol said:

I do not believe that Richard McCoy was Cooper. However, I have always thought that if McCoy had not gotten caught, and we were sitting here today talking about two unsolved hijackings instead of just the one, that most people would probably be of the thought that they were done by the same person. Now, maybe there was enough there that the FBI could have determined that not to be the case. Obviously there would be nothing in the way of fingerprints or physical evidence to link the two. But it's something interesting to think about. How differently would we look at the Cooper case? I wonder how much circumstantial evidence a guy like Blevins (and others) could round up to tie their guy to both hijackings?

I've brought this up in the past and most people didn't agree with me. Oh well. 

I can see this happening.  McCoy got caught and there is a crowd that thinks he's Cooper.  If he hadn't been caught, then we would have had two hijackings with no culprit.  Logic would say that it very well could have been the same person.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2/5/2020 at 12:23 PM, RobertMBlevins said:

...or at least what I am allowed to say under the confidentiality agreement.

You keep mentioning the confidentiality agreement, and say that it will be lifted once the movie starts production. I would think that they would want that in place until the movie is released.  ??

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, RobertMBlevins said:

I think I heard something about that boy... ^_^

Wow. Forty years since Brian dug his little campfire and up pops the money. Happy 40th anniversary of the find, Brian. 

Find was 40 years ago on Monday the 10th (he found it on a Sunday) today is the anniversary of the FBI announcing it.  I went on Newspapers.com and found some old articles.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Tom Kaye has Id'd the diatom as a winter variety...

That indicates the money arrived from the water in winter.

 

The caveat is that the Ingram's may have washed the money in the river when they found it.. this is unlikely, the money packets were tight and diatoms would only be exposed to the outer bills..

 

So, what serial number is 377's Cooper bill,, was it likely an internal bill.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

NO Georger, I didn't claim Kaye found only one diatom, he clearly stated he found many, I can read. I was referring to the question of whether Asterionella was the winter or summer variety, that is the context.

The real point was,, where was the bill in the packet.

 

I don't know if you genuinely lack contextual discrimination due to a disorder or are just being a troll, but many people are really fed up with your nonsense. You continue, without fail, to discredit yourself. You are more a hinderance than an asset to the Cooper case and your toxic behaviour toward others doesn't elevate your relevance. 

You were caught lying and you refuse to admit when you are wrong which is often. You spend more time copying and pasting my comments with added disinformation than doing any of your own research. You can choose to be a positive influence.

 

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, RobertMBlevins said:

I second that emotion, as Smokey Robinson once said. And it doesn't stop there with Georger, aka the former university instructor whose classes I once compared to the Pink Floyd video, The Wall.

Ha...he got really mad at me on that one. He talks bad about Dropzone, but copies your posts here (Flyjack) and addresses them over at the Cooper Forum. His activities there have brought the Cooper Forum almost to a standstill, with the admin (Shutter) suggesting he might pull the plug on the site once and for all. They used to pick on me...now it is Flyjack. 

Except for internet spider bots, most of the 'real' Cooper traffic is now coming to either Dropzone or the Everything D.B. Cooper site at Quora, with an additional 10,000 hits a month or so going to the Cooper WordPress articles. People aren't even commenting much anymore over at Bruce Smith's news blog, ever since he banned me from the place. That was a lot like being told by your cable company that they will no longer allow you to pay any bills for your cable service. In other words, you discover being banned from that is a bonus, and you get used to the idea pretty quickly. B)

The more the Shutter and Smith sites try exclusion...and picking on people by sniping at them from behind a rock...the more the public and the media ignore them. I told Shutter and Bruce this would eventually happen, but of course...they didn't listen. They actually believe they are the be-all and end-all of everything D.B. Cooper, when in reality they have become the third string bench warmers in a junior high football game. If they ever get the idea that maybe a group effort by everyone involved in this case is better than the way they are going now...they will become more of a force in the case, and much more effective in their efforts. 

It is doubtful this will ever happen. A more stubborn group of folks I have never known. 

cooperate.jpg.3d5f851da0bebbc1ab1e3db759505db4.jpg

 

Robert: Let's be serious here.  Shutter's site is not going anywhere, and it is still the best site out there for DB Cooper, and the most popular.  Those same arguments come up all the time where people threaten to leave or shut the site down.  Bruce's site picks up more comments when he puts a new article out.  He just has not written one in a while.  Quora is not getting people with a lot of knowledge of the case.  DZ really just has a few of us who comment: you, me, Flyjack, Parrothead, and an occasional drop in from one or two others.  A few of us comment on Shutter's site, a few don't.  I would be real disappointed to see Shutter's site go away.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 1/25/2020 at 6:23 AM, FLYJACK said:

Tom Kaye found a diatom on 377's Cooper bill, Georger Id'd it as Asterionella.

Asterionella is common in the Columbia River..

However, Asterionella japonoca is a spring and summer species while Asterionella formosa is a winter species...

So which one is it? 

 

Coulmbia River diatoms...

columbiardiatom.jpeg.5c9d4bd3ffdc53dc667874e3794f3e4e.jpeg

No Georger it wasn't a guess. The point was there is seasonal variability of Asterionella species in the Columbia. The species was not identified when I posted this.

It is right here.. in "Columbia River Dredged Disposal Site Designation: Environmental Impact Statement" RE: (Anderson, 1972)

https://books.google.ca/books?id=j-00AQAAMAAJ&pg=SA3-PA28&lpg=SA3-PA28&dq=Asterionella+formosa+columbia+river&source=bl&ots=hdV2QH92IP&sig=ACfU3U1lsxZVkyaxff5TJhHBhiFHMseZ7Q&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjssoSDxdHnAhXSKH0KHUlTBu04ChDoATADegQICRAB#v=onepage&q=Asterionella formosa columbia river&f=false

Edited by FLYJACK

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, RobertMBlevins said:

Regarding possible incompetence by KCSD in this case, (and the Amboy chute) this was my reply by email:

Below: (again) the chute acquisition and delivery report issued by FBI agent John Detlor, shortly after the hijacking:
HaydenCosseyFBIExcerpt2.jpg.165ae3e540166678d6903202410e0e64.jpg

A graphic I created below that helps take out any confusion about the document shown above:

ChuteDeliveryGraphic.jpg.832dd9a82f23d4ae11df4f8dd21db11d.jpg

I have one criticism of your summary of the chute document..

While it clearly states that the two front "chest chutes" were sent to the plane it doesn't state that both of Hayden's back chutes were sent to the plane.

 

It says that Hayden sent in two back chutes "in order to secure" and they were "furnished to Northwest Airlines". It doesn't claim/confirm both of Hayden's chutes went to the hijacker. IMO, this doc is precise in its vagueness.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No, there is no "fifth" parachute..

 

Hayden is not lying, 

Hayden's account is 100% accurate from his perspective. Hayden has zero knowledge about the chutes after he sent them in. He doesn't know if one or both went to Cooper. Further, Hayden disputes the description of the chutes by the FBI and Barry Halsted claimed Hayden's chutes were identical. Why, because one was Cossey's and one was his and nobody kept track.

 

Hayden would not necessarily have had two chutes returned to him, there is zero evidence that the chute he got back was on the plane. In fact the evidence is that the chute left on the plane was NOT the chute he got back. 

 

" Norman emphatically declares that he never spoke directly to the FBI during the parachute delivery nor subsequent investigation, yet, the Bureau’s document claims that their detailed parachute information comes from Norman."

"In addition, Barry supports Norman’s claim that as far as they know, both back chutes were identical.  In fact, Norman seemed a bit dismayed about bureaucratic in-accuracies when I read aloud the FBI description of the two back parachutes and their many differences."

https://themountainnewswa.net/2011/10/25/db-cooper-case-heats-up-again-with-controversy-over-parachutes/

 

Two back chutes were sent in by Hayden and two back chutes sent in by Cossey.. Both sets of two arrive by cab, only two are grabbed and sent to the plane. One was Cossey's and one was Hayden's.

That is the only way Hayden got back his chute which did not match the year and serial number of the one left on the plane.

This means that Cooper used Cossey's chute. One of Hayden's was left on the plane and one sent back to him. Cossey claimed he got one back as well. 

 

How can the discrepancy be rationalized.. Hayden's chute left on the plane wasn't the one he got back. Deltors opinion or FBI notes do not matter... the fact is they didn't match.

Two similar back chutes were sent from Hayden. Both packed by Cossey the same date.

1) Packed by Cossey May 21/71 manufactured 1960 S/N 60-9707. This was left on the plane confirmed by card found in chute.

2) Packed by Cossey May 21/71 manufactured 1957 S/N 226. Confirmed by packing card. This was returned to Hayden then went to museum.

 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
31 minutes ago, RobertMBlevins said:

Okay...STOP. 

STOP now. Toss out any reference that may have been provided to you by Bruce Smith. 

When it comes to interviews, he is not all that reliable. I believe Hayden's version of things because even though Hayden was unaware of the newly-released document by agent Detlor on the chutes...Hayden's story matches it. 

You are basing much of this on a Bruce Smith claim? You have got to be kidding. 

He's the same guy who said I threatened to beat him up at the last Ariel Store party, when in reality he simply foisted off a pack of lies on everyone in Cooperland.

And then was foolish enough to stick to that story, even when other witnesses confirmed he was lying. Such as Meyer Louie, who was suckered by Bruce into taking him to Ariel that day...even when Bruce had already been told he was banned from the store by owner Bryan W. 

First he lies to Meyer Louie to get a ride down to Ariel. Then Bruce is denied entrance and goes and sits on a guardrail a hundred yards up the road to fume about it. Then Meyer Louie gets his day ruined and misses the party because he has to drive Bruce out of there. Then, Bruce...in his anger...just starts lying to everyone. 

This is a guy whose word you would take that day is light and night is dark? A guy who allows filthy comments about others to be posted anonymously on his own Mountain News website? Even today?

You will have to do better than that. 

This is not based on Bruce.. that is completely wrong.

It is really based on the back chute identification cards not matching. 

I really don't think you grasp the situation here. If both of Hayden's chutes are accounted for then Cooper didn't use either. It must have been Cossey's.

The packing card info for the chute Hayden got back doesn't match the one left on the plane. There is no way around this, no matter what Hayden, Bruce, Deltor or anyone else expresses.

You keep citing Hayden's version,, Hayden has zero knowledge of events after he sent in the chutes. His opinion for events after that is meaningless. He sent in two chutes and thought they were both sent to the plane, that doesn't mean they both were. He isn't lying, he is just expressing a belief. Hayden has no way to know if both his chutes were sent to Cooper.

The packing cards not matching carries far more weight than the opinions and speculation of the people involved. 

I think Bruce's interview with Hayden is completely credible but that isn't even needed. The packing card date/serial numbers don't match..

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, RobertMBlevins said:

Then where did this other back chute come from? It had to come from somewhere. No one knew about Cossey on the afternoon of the hijacking. No one at the airport or the FBI anyway. And Cossey lived clear out in Woodinville, which is one heck of a drive to the airport in Seattle traffic...way out in the east side...across the bridge, and out of the city.  Just getting to Woodinville (even back then) on an afternoon before Thanksgiving, and back...is a nightmare.

The window between the time people at SeaTac got the requests for the money and the chutes, and the time they were actually delivered to the plane is a relatively small window. No one has said any back chutes came from Sky Sports. So where did this Cossey chute come from? He says he owned it. That means it would have to come from either Sky Sports or Cossey's house. There is no record of anyone going to Cossey's house, and no record of anything but two reserves being delivered from Sky Sports. 

Hayden claims the two mains are his, and he ID'd them. I guess what you have to do is prove there were THREE main chutes actually taken to SeaTac that evening, and where the one extra chute came from. 

Cossey claimed he sent in two back chutes by cab and Cossey claimed the chute Cooper took was his NB8..   but you don't even need that..

The packing cards didn't match,, that is all you need. Once those chutes don't match there had to be more than two back chutes involved.

The chute Hayden got back wasn't the chute left on the plane. 

 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, RobertMBlevins said:

No wonder Hayden outright called Cossey a liar, and after our interview...when I told him about the John Detlor report...he asked me to send him a copy to put in a frame in his office. Now it makes sense. He says he spoke to Cossey maybe once or twice over the years, and Hayden made it plain he didn't like Cossey and thought he was a liar. Obviously, Cossey tried to take credit for providing chutes that weren't actually HIS. Why? Probably to try and do the same thing Norman Hayden ended up doing:  Somehow getting the FBI to return the Pioneer to HIM...instead of the real owner...Norman Hayden. 

Cossey lied. It is as simple as that. He tried to steal credit from Norman Hayden. And years later, Hayden gets vindicated when the FBI starts releasing the files. Hayden is further vindicated when he finally has a lawyer send a request letter for return of the Pioneer...and the FBI hands it right over to him in a parking lot. Hayden is further vindicated when instead of trying to make a buck on a famous parachute...simply donates it to the Washington State History Museum. 

The fact that two packing cards may or may not match is not proof of the physical nature...or the ownership...or the origination...of the backpack (main) chutes given to Cooper. That in itself could be explained in a number of ways. An extra card, a wrong card, whatever. All the other evidence, all the other testimony points to both Hayden being correct, and Detlor's report accurate. 

Cossey packed the chutes. Doesn't mean he owned any of them, or provided them personally on the night of the hijacking. If he was going to lie, it was pretty foolish of him to simply try copying Hayden's version of events...which by the way is backed up by the FBI's original report. 

It's too bad Cossey isn't around anymore to answer some of these questions, or the other folks involved in all this. It also calls into question Cossey's ridiculous claim to Seattle media that he knew the Amboy chute wasn't Cooper's 'in less than ten seconds' because 'the ones I gave Cooper were made of ripstop nylon and that chute is made of silk...'

Another load of baloney from Cossey. Practically every chute expert who has examined pictures the FBI released of the parachute found in Amboy in 2008 agree on one thing. That chute was NOT made of silk, but nylon. 

In case some readers haven't seen them, a few pictures of the Amboy chute are shown below. 

amboychute1.jpg

amboychute2.jpg

amboychute3.jpg

amboychute4.jpg

AmboyChuteLG.jpg

The FBI agent in the picture above reminds of actress Laura Linney in the movie, Breach. Like Linney, she looks frustrated. Who do they have to depend on to ID the chute honestly? EARL COSSEY. A guy who made lying into a science when it came to the Cooper chutes. 
breachLinney.jpg.7b19c1afa059bc1e5961fc4e7d7e3397.jpg
Quote from Linney in the movie, which you could sort of apply to Earl Cossey from time to time, or perhaps even Cooper himself. (As it turns out, Cossey was more of a hindrance than a help to the FBI in the Cooper case.)

 

You keep trying to discredit others to explain this away. It doesn't matter the packing cards not matching is the entire enchilada... no way around that. 

Since Cossey and Hayden both thought their chutes were used then it is natural for them to think the other is lying.

An extra card, a wrong card, no way.. that is speculation too far.. Those cards are crucial for jumpers. If the card found in the chute left on the plane didn't match the one in the chute later returned to Hayden how can they be the same chute?  Both cards matched the Hayden chute packing dates of May 21/71 and both packed by Cossey. The chutes did not match the dates and serial numbers. If the chutes didn't match then that accounts for both Hayden chutes and logically Cooper didn't jump with either of Hayden's back chutes... 

 

So which back chute did Cooper jump with?

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, RobertMBlevins said:

I don't have to 'try' and discredit Cossey. He's already been caught in at least one lie, and foisted off a bullshit story to the Seattle media regarding the Amboy chute. And that story was sent on the wire all over the world. He even told a Seattle Times reporter that the chute WAS Cooper's, and later said it was a joke. Then he says it's silk and not nylon and that's why it can't be Cooper's. Another line of baloney. 

Here is my personal opinion:  The last time the Seattle FBI dealt with Cossey was after the Amboy chute discovery. I think they figured out that Cossey was full of it, and then figured out on their own the chute was possibly a Cooper chute this time. So they shoved that fact under the rug and said it wasn't because it was the only piece of evidence to surface since 1980. And that's why after multiple inquiries, they still say it is 'evidence in an ongoing case'. 

I don't believe that the FBI figured out what Cossey was really about until the Amboy chute came along. Then they figured it out. No wonder they returned that other chute to Hayden based on a single letter from Hayden's lawyer. 

At the time of the chute find in 2008, several articles mentioned that the Seattle FBI was kicking that chute upstairs to their lab to examine it further. But instead, they dumped it into the back of a government car and dragged it out onto Cossey's driveway. That's when he gave his baloney 'silk not nylon' story to them...and everyone else. It's an easy test to determine the difference. All you need is a Bic lighter. Nylon melts, drips, and runs. Silk does not, since it is a natural substance. 

I figure by the next day, the FBI realized Cossey was full of it, and he no longer made a viable witness regarding any truthful ID of any chute discovered. The story he had pawned off on scores of media over the years about owning and delivering chutes to SeaTac would have been found to be false. So he just blew off the Amboy chute with a ridiculous silk claim. He became useless as a witness at that point. 

After three hours of comprehensive interview with Norman Hayden, and seeing Cossey's history over the years, I choose to believe Hayden, as well as Seattle FBI agent John Detlor's version of events. Over the years, the FBI surely knew Cossey's claims of ownership and delivery were false. But he was the guy who packed the chutes, and they had no one else to go to in these matters, so they sort of ignored all that. But after the fiasco of the Amboy chute, they gave up on him. 

Packing card? Someone leaving a second card inside a container accidentally? Who knows. It's the Reno office of the FBI...same guys who lost some of the other evidence in the case. 

You keep making the same error in logic.. 

Deltor never said both of Hayden's chutes went to Cooper. 

And... Hayden has no knowledge of his chutes after he sent them in.

They are stating what they believe and that doesn't contradict the fact that the packing cards didn't match. Believing them is completely irrelevant.

You have also set up a false choice between Hayden or Cossey, you falsely believe one is lying and one isn't. If you believe one the other must be lying. You pick Hayden because Cossey made errors. They both can be telling the truth from their perspectives. Both sent in two back chutes by cab and both assumed the two that went to the plane was theirs.. It isn't one is right and one wrong, both can be wrong expressing what they honestly believe.

The FBI or somebody receiving the chutes mixed them up and the FBI themselves in the FBI docs have conflicting information. The FBI itself isn't even a reliable source on this.

Lying to the FBI is serious felony, I don't think Cossey would do that, there is no upside. He may have got things wrong and joked with the media but he has been given a bad rap. 

 

You have to explain how that packing card found in the pocket of the back chute Cooper left on the plane does not match the packing card for the chute Hayden received back from the FBI. Hayden's chute left on the plane by Cooper wasn't the one he received back from the FBI. Cooper did not use either of Hayden's chutes.

Discrediting Cossey or believing Hayden or Deltor or space aliens doesn't reconcile this issue.

 

This FBI doc suggests that there were two sets of back chutes delivered.. one set earlier.

4backchutes.jpeg.23117640a7aabe3e3d1e2666c2ea0bb3.jpeg

 

Edited by FLYJACK

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Diatoms..

I couldn't find that Anderson 72 original research,, 

I found this... it indicates (Anderson 72) Asterionella Formosa was dominant in the Columbia River for winter in 1972 and Asterionella Japonica was dominant in the summer.

In 1980 Asterionella Formosa was found in April/May in the Columbia River Estuary..

 

Hard to get to the bottom of it without the original research, but the difference besides date is the Columbia River vs the Columbia River Estuary..  the Estuary is the area near the Ocean and affected by Ocean tides.. it isn't clear exactly where the Anderson 72 research was conducted.

We have two variables to sort, location and time (climate variability).

 

https://books.google.ca/books?id=MtATAQAAIAAJ&pg=PA33&lpg=PA33&dq=diatoms+in+river+sand+columbia+river&source=bl&ots=uAM440FIbI&sig=ACfU3U0SWtbI6Ow-srDi-KWibYv__Xmkaw&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjdrtzJsc_nAhXHup4KHYvUCoEQ6AEwDXoECAoQAQ#v=onepage&q=diatoms in river sand columbia river&f=false

diatom2.jpeg.2da22a6a0dc98c168b3bd83511c4679c.jpeg

 

Edited by FLYJACK

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just because Cossey was wrong on things like the Amboy chute doesn't mean he lied to the FBI and committed felonies for decades.. what makes me believe his claim is that early on he had mentioned the modified handle on the chute he thought Cooper took. Hayden received two emergency chutes packed by Cossey to meet regs and I can't see one having a modified handle.

There is no proof other than Cossey's statements and muddled FBI docs.. it fits the evidence of the Hayden chute packing cards not matching.

 

The problem is the FBI.. their files are not conclusions, they are investigation notes, some facts with errors, vagueness, opinions and interpretations..  The files we get to see are redacted and selected to control information. The FBI's top priority is and always has been to maintain the perception of integrity with the public and present the FBI in the best light. Anything that makes the FBI look bad won't be released to us.. we are getting a small a fraction of the files.  If they mixed up the chutes and later discovered it they wouldn't admit it.

 

Initially, my concern was that Cossey believing his chute was used by Cooper was comparing the found chutes to the wrong one. But, when the packing cards didn't match, it became clear Cooper didn't take either of Hayden's chutes. That only leaves Cossey's as one he used. Now, it is entirely possible that the FBI is hiding some other scenario.. but the bottom line is Cooper did not take either of Hayden's chutes, they are both accounted for by their packing cards.

Edited by FLYJACK

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
28 minutes ago, RobertMBlevins said:

Problem with your scenario:  Hayden didn't buy, or own, any belly packs. Only two belly packs were provided, and one was a trainer. Both came from Sky Sports. If Cossey owned one of the Sky Sports chutes, it would have to be the pink chute, the belly pack that was popped for the cord by Cooper. Record says only two mains (backpacks) were provided and those came from Hayden. 

Hayden had no reason to buy a belly pack. He needed only bailout rigs, (backpacks) so that's what he bought. You need a chute to go with that unexplained packing card. No sport flyer is going to use a belly pack alone, and no sport flyer will wear both a belly pack AND a bailout rig. If Cooper didn't use any of Hayden's bailout rigs, then why didn't Hayden ask for two chutes to be returned to him? 

"bellypacks" are completely irrelevant in this. 

Yes, they came from Skysports. Not sure why you think they are part of this issue.

Cossey sent in two back chutes from his home,, separate from the two Skysports chest chutes.

Hayden thought Cooper had used one of his chutes so in his mind only one was available to be returned, the one left on the plane. The FBI initially denied the request claiming it was evidence in the case. They eventually sent him one of his chutes, not the one left on the plane, the packing card didn't match.

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, RobertMBlevins said:

Now we get to the heart of the matter. You believe Cossey used a cab to send chutes to the SeaTac Airport. 

There is no record of Cossey doing this. There is a record of Hayden doing this. Why is there no record for Cossey? 

Are you basing this on Cossey telling people much later he did this, or is there some newspaper reference or otherwise from around the time of the hijacking to support it? The John Detlor report is pretty clear. Four chutes obtained, four delivered to the airport. The 'other' report is pretty confusing and isn't clear at all. The Detlor report says nothing about Cossey except that he was the guy who had previously packed the two chutes provided by Hayden, and even mentions that Hayden could identify his own chutes. 

I'm still thinking that a second interview with Norman Hayden is called for here. Since Cossey cannot be interviewed now, it's the only way to reconcile the whole thing. Why don't you present pictures of all the packing cards you have pictures of again, and I will go over everything you have presented the last three pages or so. There might be an answer in there somewhere. 

For the record, Hayden claims Cossey never provided any of the chutes, but just said he did. But I would like to hear more from both of you. 

You miss the point.. and focus on the minutia. I am not basing this on Cossey..

It is based on the packing cards not matching,,  that means one thing,, Cooper didn't jump with either of Hayden's back chutes. Then where did it come from... most likely Cossey's story was true and Cooper jumped with his modified NB8.

I've explained this over and over and posted the packing card and relevant FBI information. Hayden's packing card for the chute he received is in Bruce's article. The year and serial number for the chute found on the plane are in several places in the FBI files. The packing dates and rigger Cossey match as they should, but the year and serial number do not.

 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The chutes are a big piece of the case. I’ve found it interesting how each one of us focuses on certain aspects of the case, and even a focus within a focus. 
 

Some things I think about on the chutes. 
 

How the heck does a dummy chute end up on the plane? This is very suspect. 
 

Who is able to put on a harness so quickly?

Some pics I received from some old timers who were Naval aviators  on the Beechcraft “Twin Beech” a Navy recon and utility aircraft in the 1940s and after.  Note the backpack chutes on the shelf and then the shot of the seats where the belly chutes would be hooked.  One of the aircrew told me that they flew with the harness on and in an emergency would just clip on the belly chute  

 

 

1796A780-8C35-409A-AA4A-4290A3D50429.jpeg

78A17945-CA9B-49B0-8369-4D3E11E989CA.jpeg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As per last few posts...  I thought I had read somewhere that the state patrol delivered Hayden's chutes? Wasn't one (or two?) delivered by private vehicle by someone not named in the F.B.I. docs? Is it possible that Cossey misled the public about the public about the Amboy chute on orders from the F.B.I. ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

47 47