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DB Cooper

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On 11/9/2019 at 8:32 AM, The Cooper Vortex said:

Latest episode is out now DB Cooper was a Priest with Gregg Gossett. Check it out!

 

https://thecoopervortex.podbean.com/e/db-cooper-was-a-priest/

 

Enjoy!

Good show,, you can certainly see why Gossett was considered a good suspect.. 

 

Perhaps interview Georger, heard he recently has had some time freed up...

Georger can explain his Cooper suspect theory... Theodore John Kaczynski, the UNABOMBER.

Cooper had a grudge, Kaczynski had a grudge, Georger has a grudge,,, case solved?

Edited by FLYJACK

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27 minutes ago, FLYJACK said:

Good show,, you can certainly see why Gossett was considered a good suspect.. 

 

Perhaps interview Georger, heard he recently has had some time freed up...

Georger can explain his Cooper suspect theory... Theodore John Kaczynski, the UNABOMBER.

Cooper had a grudge, Kaczynski had a grudge, Georger has a grudge,,, case solved?

Thanks! Wolfgang is a very interesting suspect. I would absolutely love to have Georger on the show, he knows a lot about the case and has definitely made a name for himself inside the vortex.

 

I'm still waiting for you to do the show Flyjack. :D

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RE: Parachutes

 

Cossey's statement...

"I provided two parachutes one of them being an NB8... and the other being a Pioneer sport parachute."

that does not match Hayden's two chutes.

 

Both Hayden and Cossey must have sent in 2 back chutes each. Hayden got one back, Cossey got one back and Cooper jumped with one. The other is unknown.

at 32:00 of video

 

 

Edited by FLYJACK

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37 minutes ago, RobertMBlevins said:

Earl Cossey: Same guy who wrote off the parachute found in Amboy, WA in 2008 by claiming it was silk, and not nylon. Which by the way is NOT true. It is nylon. 

We've been down this road before, and I will only say this:  I have interviewed Norman Hayden previously, and at length. Before he ever saw the report by FBI agent John Detlor, his descriptions of the chutes he sent matched that report. No prompting from me, and he never saw the report previously. And yet his testimony matched the report. 

THEN I sent him a copy of the report, which he later put into a frame. 

You still don't grasp all the evidence in context.

Hayden and Cossey didn't know that the other had also sent in chutes.

The FBI documented the chute serial number that was left in the plane by Cooper and it DOES NOT match the one returned to Hayden. It was one of Hayden's left behind but not the one sent back to him. That means one of Hayden's and one of Cossey's was sent to Cooper and Cooper used Cossey's. The FBI mixed them up before they went to the plane.

You misread the Deltor report.. it doesn't actually say that Hayden's two chutes were sent to Cooper. It only states that Hayden furnished two chutes to NORTHWEST "in order to secure parachutes to furnish the hijacker"... It does state that the front chutes were for the hijacker. It doesn't confirm the back packs.

That report is a carefully worded document intended to be vague and mislead. This document does not support your argument.

 

Hayden never gave the FBI the descriptions..

From Bruce Smith interview.

https://themountainnewswa.net/2011/10/25/db-cooper-case-heats-up-again-with-controversy-over-parachutes/

" First, the container looked old – WWII vintage – even though the manufacturing label said April 1957.  Further, I didn’t see any “wear marks,” as suggested in the FBI docs.

 “This is a luxury chute?” Norman sighed when I read the FBI document to him, clearly refuting this aspect of the Bureau’s characterization of the “chute not-taken.”

 Compounding doubts further, the harness material looked fresh, as if it came from a more current rig.  Plus, I didn’t see any special padding on them, which the FBI claims should be there. "

 

Even Hayden pondered the 4 back chute scenario..

" In addition, Barry supports Norman’s claim that as far as they know, both back chutes were identical.  In fact, Norman seemed a bit dismayed about bureaucratic in-accuracies when I read aloud the FBI description of the two back parachutes and their many differences.

However, Barry openly wonders if the FBI received four back parachutes that day – two from Norman that were identical, and two from Earl Cossey that were not. 

Supporting the notion of two sets of two back parachutes, author Richard Tosaw and the renown Cooper researcher known as Sluggo, both claim that NWO’s chief pilot, Al Lee, who was stationed at Sea-Tac airport, made the calls looking for parachutes and reached Earl Cossey at home. "

 

Both Hayden and Cossey are correctly stating the truth from their perspective.

 

haydencosseyfbiexcerpt3.jpg

Edited by FLYJACK

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8 minutes ago, mrshutter45 said:

You keep saying doesn't match. what does that mean.

The writing on the outer panel with the holes.. there is another break away panel behind it.

That is the right system.. that decal has to go either behind that access panel or inside the lower external panel.

another one..

 

727controldoor1.jpg.649648ac8b1a8736cbd60f7ce5cb2c9a.jpg

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According to the card showing how to pull the panel. the second one looks more like a framed panel open in the center. how would you pull it off? once that's removed the handle in there...I've never seen a box closing it in either like the normal stair release has..

Edited by mrshutter45

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18 minutes ago, mrshutter45 said:

No placard would be inside the interior of the wall or behind that panel with the holes. the placard alone is too big..half of the panels for the stairs are missing...

Eric claimed Boeing confirmed it was behind the two hole panel.. that claim is questionable.

I don't know what the 2nd panel looks like and the Hicks placard text doesn't exactly match the interior emergency release system and it definitely doesn't match the main emergency system (push handle). It best matches the exterior one inside the outer access panel.

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16 minutes ago, RobertMBlevins said:

The Detlor report is clear. They call Barry Halstead at Pac Aviation. Halstead calls up Hayden and Hayden sends up his two back pack chutes by cab. This makes sense because Hayden didn't own, and never had any intention of ever buying a front reserve chute. He only wore the backpack grudgingly, he said. He was forced to wear one by the rules established for sport flying. 

Meanwhile, Cossey claims he was called personally by either the FBI or NWA? That is hogwash. They did the same thing they did for the backpacks. They called a place out of the phone book, or one suggested to them...Issaquah Sky Sports. Cossey never went there that night, as well. If he had, NWA wouldn't have received a non-working chute. State Patrol shows up to pick up two reserves. The guy at Issaquah Sky hands over a working reserve, and one that didn't work. 

There ARE no records of any other chutes being sent to the airport that night. Just because the FBI guys in Reno may have misread a number doesn't mean six chutes were delivered. Both Cossey and Hayden agree that Cossey re-packed an NB8 for Hayden a few months prior to the hijacking. Cooper jumped with an NB8. The working reserve was popped and is still being held as evidence. The non working one was tossed out the back, most likely. The chute returned to Hayden was the Pioneer. Cooper jumped with the NB8. There are no other chutes. 

The only weird possibility I can imagine is if the FBI decided to keep it secret...IF the non working reserve was left on board, and not missing from the aircraft as they said. 

There is also something else here. The airline was insistent on complying exactly with Cooper's demands. Cooper asked specifically for two front and two back chutes. And that's exactly what he got. Why would they send him more chutes than he asked for? 

You think perhaps some 'extras' were delivered to the airport, but there is no record of that. 

It only says Hayden sent in two chutes, it does not confirm that his two chutes were sent to the plane.

There are no records because the FBI mixed everything up and was confused about it.

No record doesn't mean it didn't happen.

You don't misread a serial number and manufacturing date but get the packing date correct. Hayden's chutes were both packed May 21.

 

Moreover, from your comment I can tell you still don't understand the process here..

There were ONLY four chutes sent to the plane, two fronts and two backs.

The FBI scrambled to get the two backs, Hayden was contacted and he sent in two backs by cab. Another person contacted Cossey at home and he sent in two chutes..

The people receiving the chutes didn't know which was which, they grabbed two backs and sent them to plane with the two fronts. It happened to be one back from Cossey and one from Hayden. There would have been two back chutes sent to the plane with the two fronts.. now Hayden got one back, it was his chute that never went to the plane. Cossey got one back as well, the one that never went to the plane.

Why is this important... it doesn't tell us who Cooper was but it tells us that Cooper jumped with Cossey's chute. Cossey was not lying about it. His description of that chute is the right one.

Hayden sent in two chutes and assumed both were sent to the plane. Cossey assumed both of his were sent to the plane.

 

Edited by FLYJACK

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23 minutes ago, FLYJACK said:

Eric claimed Boeing confirmed it was behind the two hole panel.. that claim is questionable.

I don't know what the 2nd panel looks like and the Hicks placard text doesn't exactly match the interior emergency release system and it definitely doesn't match the main emergency system (push handle). It best matches the exterior one inside the outer access panel.

The planes went through changes periodically, each airline is different. TWA could of used them while NWO didn't. I've mentioned several times it should of been very simple for Boeing to say they went anywhere around the controls inside the stairwell. that should of been easy enough for the FBI to understand or anyone for that matter. why the blueprints? I think I could tell you where the lug nuts are on a vehicle without drawings...

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6 minutes ago, mrshutter45 said:

The planes went through changes periodically, each airline is different. TWA could of used them while NWO didn't. I've mentioned several times it should of been very simple for Boeing to say they went anywhere around the controls inside the stairwell. that should of been easy enough for the FBI to understand or anyone for that matter. why the blueprints? I think I could tell you where the lug nuts are on a vehicle without drawings...

These decals are regulated, the Hicks placard instruction do not match the interior main system at all so that one is out.

It is close but not exact for the optional one, the "two hole panel" but it isn't the outside panel decal. 

It does match the exterior one which is actually inside the cavity and about 5 ft below the interior one. On a blueprint that might look like it was inside..?? Why didn't the FBI just add that blueprint in the files...

It has to be one of those two for the 727.

If it was the interior one behind the two hole panel than the FBI is lying and Cooper must have pulled the emergency system..

If it was the exterior one, actually inside the cavity then it could have fallen off any plane.

 

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21 minutes ago, mrshutter45 said:

The problem I see with the chutes vs the documents is the lack of anyone saying they showed up from Cossey. we have plenty of documents for the other sets of chutes. even the highway patrol saying they blew the motor up in the car. Cossey wasn't home. how did they get there? 

The lack of official documentation isn't a big deal.. it was chaotic, chutes arrived by cab, the receivers didn't know who they belonged to or care. They end up with 4 back chutes at the staging area and send two to the plane. The FBI mixed up the chutes and lost track of which was which. They don't want to admit that later.

The chute left in plane does not match the one returned to Hayden, this is the only explanation.

This doc implies there were 4 back chutes...

 2 back chutes which he observed,,,

LATER,, 2 back chutes were delivered..

4backchutes.jpeg.1b06cdf766f76463e16de2774ba7e9bc.jpeg

 

 

Edited by FLYJACK

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The blueprints will be very specific. I deal with them all day long. they can be specific to that airline. hundreds of blueprints are involved. you will have prints for the framework, electrical, hydraulic. you will have prints of the exterior skin and interior etc. 

Edited by mrshutter45

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2 minutes ago, mrshutter45 said:

The blueprints will be very specific. I deal with them all day long. they can be specific to that airline. hundreds of blueprints are involved. you will have prints for the framework, electrical, hydraulic. you will have prints of the exterior skin and interior etc. 

Sure they will be specific, but was the exact position understood and communicated accurately.

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Just now, FLYJACK said:

Sure they will be specific, but was the exact position understood and communicated accurately.

They were told more if you use the newspaper as well. Boeing was called and confirmed it was from the stairwell. you have a spokesperson with Seattle and an agent from "Vancouver" also speaking for Cowlitz and Seattle. 

The drawings should of been easy to follow as mentioned. I'm not sure why they said what the said but again, we only have bits and pieces. 

There is a couple 727's at Fort Lauderdale airport. I'm going to try and get access...100 and a 200 is there..

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7 minutes ago, mrshutter45 said:

They were told more if you use the newspaper as well. Boeing was called and confirmed it was from the stairwell. you have a spokesperson with Seattle and an agent from "Vancouver" also speaking for Cowlitz and Seattle. 

The drawings should of been easy to follow as mentioned. I'm not sure why they said what the said but again, we only have bits and pieces. 

There is a couple 727's at Fort Lauderdale airport. I'm going to try and get access...100 and a 200 is there..

The FBI's public statements are crucial..

How could they claim that placard could have come from any passing 727 and the ground crew claimed they fall off in normal operation.

Either, they were correct or they were lying and knew Cooper pulled the emergency system removing both panels.

 

Edited by FLYJACK

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Here is what I see. we have zero documentation of any decal missing off of 305. they looked at the stairwell again about a week later thinking Cooper could of hid behind one of the panels. they describe the control box only while describing the wall along with the railing.

Seven years later the decal is found. here is where the claim of the placard missing comes into play which should of been noted on the evening of the hijacking. the small panel should or had to have been missing if he used the handle. Tina does state she showed him the "controls" to the stairs. it just bounces back and forth on what's really being described. 

Someone from NWO needs to be found that would know about the controls. stews or a mechanic would be the best options. I don't think they are holding this back as a "identifier" to weed out the suspects. I think that would be in a file away from everything else..

Edited by mrshutter45

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8 minutes ago, mrshutter45 said:

Here is what I see. we have zero documentation of any decal missing off of 305. they looked at the stairwell again about a week later thinking Cooper could of hid behind one of the panels. they describe the control box only while describing the wall along with the railing.

Seven years later the decal is found. here is where the claim of the placard missing comes into play which should of been noted on the evening of the hijacking. the small panel should or had to have been missing if he used the handle. Tina does state she showed him the "controls" to the stairs. it just bounces back and forth on what's really being described. 

Someone from NWO needs to be found that would know about the controls. stews or a mechanic would be the best options. I don't think they are holding this back as a "identifier" to weed out the suspects. 

yes, there are only really two possibilities..

Cooper used the emergency systems and the FBI knew it and held it back.

or

The placard could have come from any plane..

Years ago with less info I thought that Cooper may have had trouble with the main control lever,, you push from raise detent to lower detent.. but on the 727-100 you have to press a button on the top off the handle for it to move.. if he didn't he couldn't use the main control. He would then have pulled off the outer emergency release cover then inner then pulled the red handle.. This would have been known.

Two things support that but don't confirm it.

Minor panel damage..

and no part that large was missing...  was a small part missing?

 

 

paneldamage.jpeg

727partfound.jpeg

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