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DB Cooper

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11 hours ago, ParrotheadVol said:

Wrong once again. They did speak with her mother and her mother agreed that LD could be the hijacker. She even did a TV interview about it.

I believe Marla's mother has passed away.

I think Marla had some memories and tried to fill in the missing details, many of them  quite implausible.  I think Tom Fuentes said in the history channel documentary,  If someone says A and B, and they make sense, and then they say C and C sounds nuts, does that mean A & B aren't true?  

The FBI didn't shut down the case until after they finished one last fingerprint test on LD Cooper, so there was some part of her story the FBI found plausible.  I don't know what that is, and I don't think Marla even knows exactly what that is.

 

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8 hours ago, MarkBennett said:

I believe Marla's mother has passed away.

I think Marla had some memories and tried to fill in the missing details, many of them  quite implausible.  I think Tom Fuentes said in the history channel documentary,  If someone says A and B, and they make sense, and then they say C and C sounds nuts, does that mean A & B aren't true?  

The FBI didn't shut down the case until after they finished one last fingerprint test on LD Cooper, so there was some part of her story the FBI found plausible.  I don't know what that is, and I don't think Marla even knows exactly what that is.

 

This is spot on. The email that Bruce Smith posted from Ayn Dietrich Williams after the case was closed confirmed that LD was the focus of the last few years of the case. I'll take it a step further: I also believe that Curtis Eng told Marla that he thought LD was the hijacker and was going to close the case. She even told us all that before it happened. Blevins wants us to believe that Kenny Christiansen is the guy the FBI thought was Cooper before they closed the case. This is obviously not the case.

As you stated, I have no idea why the FBI thought they had their man with LD. Perhaps some of the 302's can shed some light on that at some point? 

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No Robert, that is not the email that I was referring to. I went back to the DB Cooper forum and did some digging and found the email. This was a response that Bruce had received after he emailed her asking about a supposed suspect that the FBI had spent the previous 5 years investigating before closing the case. This was her response:

"As you know, I can't provide a name because of Privacy Act considerations. However, I will tell you that a tip we received in 2010 provided information on a person the FBI had not previously considered as a match to the NORJAK subject. Every other individual mentioned in tips over the last five or more years was someone the FBI had previously considered, and for whom investigative results did not support further consideration. I would caution you from saying we spent five years investigating, because the effort was much less involved. We received items belonging to the 2010 individual and sent them to our lab for forensic testing against the DNA and fingerprint profiles we have on file. Given much more urgent and higher profile demands on the Lab, only in January 2016 did the Seattle Division receive the results of that testing. It did not confirm a match between the 2010 individual and the hijacker.  There was tremendous media attention in 2011 to our investigation. I can't confirm or deny any claims about the identity of the individual we were considering, but I would suggest you review that media coverage."

Obviously, she is talking about LD Cooper. This also shows that up until 2016, that he had never been eliminated as a suspect as you claim he had been. 

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Parrothead Vol,

Thanks for the post.  Right after this happened I emailed Marla and asked her if they told her the last suspect was LD.  She confirmed the FBI had told her that.  (I also asked her what specifically about LD caught the FBI's attention and she didn't know).

I feel like we've gone around and around this already.  Robert has his own opinions and he's entitled to have them.  I don't think you're going to change his mind no matter what you post.

 

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24 minutes ago, MarkBennett said:

Parrothead Vol,

Thanks for the post.  Right after this happened I emailed Marla and asked her if they told her the last suspect was LD.  She confirmed the FBI had told her that.  (I also asked her what specifically about LD caught the FBI's attention and she didn't know).

I feel like we've gone around and around this already.  Robert has his own opinions and he's entitled to have them.  I don't think you're going to change his mind no matter what you post.

 

Yes, I agree that I am not going to change his mind. However, most of the time when I post things like this, it isn't so much to try and change his mind, but rather for the benefit of others that may read the forum and may not be regular posters. I just think he needs to be challenged on some things, especially if the prospects of a movie naming Kenny as Cooper are real (which I have my doubts about). 

I've always figured that there were a couple of things about Cooper physically that maybe didn't get released publicly. Perhaps LD was a match to something like that? 

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Robert, I do not recall there being any announcements in 2011 that the FBI had dismissed LD as a suspect. I think that is something else that you are mistaken about. Of course, if you can show that to be the case, I will certainly accept that I am wrong on that point.

I do recall that there were some media reports around that time that the initial testing they did was inconclusive. But I don't recall a dismissal as a suspect.

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I don't think that's what Bruce was complaining about, unless there was another post that I missed. The one I saw, his complaint was that someone quoted his writing in their book without his permission. Surely as an author yourself, you understand that complaint?

I didn't see anything about him complaining of not being paid.

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11 hours ago, RobertMBlevins said:

I have a good rapport with the Seattle FBI...but even THEY don't keep me privy to all their decisions in the Cooper case. I only went by the many news articles, like the one I linked above. Just like everybody else. 

Nothing in that article indicates that LD was eliminated as a suspect at that time. Nothing.

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1 hour ago, BParker said:

What are the chances of D.B. Cooper being one of the suspects that has already been vetted by the FBI? 

No way to know for sure but my guess is that the identity of the hijacker is probably a name we have never heard. Now, there are probably hundreds of names the FBI may have considered that have never been named publicly. I would lean toward it being someone like that before it being someone we know of.

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The ongoing disinformation innuendo campaign by Georger aka J R Warner...

"FLYJAK operates in a similar atmosphere of 'suspicion'  alleging ties between his suspect and Tina Mucklow  going clear back to when Mucklow was in highschool!"

This lie keeps getting repeated..

 

The facts..

Hahneman lived about 50 miles from Tina in PA.. (Hahneman had no accent)

Hahneman's brother had a bank account 9 miles from Tina's school.

 

I found no connection between them, NONE. I have not alleged a tie, to claim that is a lie.

 

further,,

Tina handled some ransom money.

Tina lived a few miles upstream of TBAR in the late 70's.

3 packets were found at TBAR.

 

It would be irrational to not develop the theory that Tina may have kept some ransom money and discarded it later.

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7 minutes ago, RobertMBlevins said:

'It would be irrational to not develop the theory that Tina may have kept some ransom money and discarded it later...'

I will *sort of* buy this theory except I have a couple of points to make about it. 

  • Were the other stews present when Tina allegedly handled this money?
  • In order to keep this money, Tina would have to have kept it and said nothing about it, even after the plane landed in Reno. This would necessitate her to lie, conceal the money, get it past FBI questioning, etc. 
  • If either of the other two stews witnessed her accepting money from the hijacker, or even suspected she did, the FBI would have come down on her like a load of bricks. 

Seems unlikely. Not impossible, but unlikely. 

Finding 3 packets of ransom money on TBAR in 1980 was unlikely, but it happened.

 

Tina's story about asking for some money then returning it because of a tip policy is sketchy.

The other stews were offered ransom money later as they left.

Tina was alone with the hijacker.

Tina looked very sheepish, head down in Reno video.

Flo stated that she believes Tina is hiding something.

Tina's post hijacking behaviour was odd.

Flo's and Tina's Cooper descriptions vary.. why?

The only ransom money we know of that was separated from the bag was pulled out by Cooper for the stews. It is reasonable that most likely these packets somehow ended up at TBAR.

Tina was the #1 go to witness for the FBI, if she was compromised the case was doomed.

 

We have all the elements of a good theory for the TBAR money. After 50 years of theories I have heard most of them and this one ranks in the top three. It is the simplest and most plausible.

 

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7 hours ago, RobertMBlevins said:

I will agree it is a *decent* theory, not necessarily a good one. I can't go that far with it quite yet. But it IS interesting.

It requires a lot of fill-in-the-blanks, the biggest one being the idea that a young stew for Northwest would actually try to sneak thousands of dollars in stolen ransom money right past her co-workers, the airline, and all those FBI agents. That is a tough stretch. Not out of the range of possibility, but a stretch. That would take one hell of a lot of nerve, especially knowing you were certainly going to be questioned thoroughly once the flight finally ended. 

Now as far as Tina's post-hijacking behavior, are you talking about directly afterward, such as the news conference in Reno, or something broader over the long term? Any odd behavior directly after the flight landed could be easily explained by stress, fear of death, a long flight, all those responsibilities that were dumped on her by the hijacker, interviews by FBI agents, whatever. I can't recall when they actually left Minneapolis at the moment, but that was probably the entire flight crew's longest day ever. 

I have heard something regarding Mucklow and the FBI, but I can't reference it at the moment. (And I'm too tired to look right now LOL)

But...is it true that Mucklow went home to Pennsylvania for a while directly after the crime, and that the FBI did their main questioning of her a few days later in Pennsylvania? I *think* I have heard this mentioned. But I wouldn't swear to it, either. 

On a side note, picture is just a meme joke I made once about Tina. It's not serious. :)

TinaorTena.jpg

It is a good theory compared to the other TBAR theories.

It is simple and plausible with some supporting evidence, it fits all the evidence.

It does not support any specific suspect.

 

The other theories are pure speculation and most require a contortion of the evidence. 

Look at this theory in context.

 

The other two I like..

Massive Clamshell dredge and barge operation for erosion mitigation program in 76/77 for Sauvie Island. Cooper loses money in Lewis, it ends up in Columbia and is transported upstream.

 

Some money fell off the stairs as the plane crossed the Columbia.

 

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That flight attendant could be 100% innocent.  However, from the start the crew and pilots were put above suspicion.  There was something to do with pilots and flight crews being above normal citizens.  Also, one of the pilots publicly praised that flight attendant from the beginning, and on Case Closed he was still emotional.  Add to the fact that some of the people who talk about the case, talk about her with awe, like she is this perfect person.  No one is perfect.  If this was a crime that happened today, the first people they would look at would be the crew, the pilots, the mechanics, the ticket people.

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5 hours ago, BParker said:

That flight attendant could be 100% innocent.  However, from the start the crew and pilots were put above suspicion.  There was something to do with pilots and flight crews being above normal citizens.  Also, one of the pilots publicly praised that flight attendant from the beginning, and on Case Closed he was still emotional.  Add to the fact that some of the people who talk about the case, talk about her with awe, like she is this perfect person.  No one is perfect.  If this was a crime that happened today, the first people they would look at would be the crew, the pilots, the mechanics, the ticket people.

yes, she could be innocent, it is just a theory.. everyone has considered it but been afraid to bring up this glaringly obvious theory.

The dredge theory seems to be the dominant one but I can't imagine the money going through a suction dredge and landing in its condition with rubber band fragments attached. Additionally, how did the money get into the river in the first place.

Tosaw speculated that Cooper landed in the Columbia and the TBAR money was the money he offered the stews but put in his coat pocket. But, you have to move the LZ..

Washougal has been debunked, Cooper landing near TBAR and burying it is extremely speculative nonsense.

Most likely, the money came from the river..  how did it get there within the parameters of known evidence.

 

Another thing that is interesting is that 20 bills were missing from one packet.. were they deteriorated and just not found or were they removed before the money was deposited?? 

Clearly, the claim that the rubber bands were "intact" is false and misleading, the edges of the bills/packets were significantly eroded.

If the bills were removed before the money arrived that suggests human intervention.. and perhaps somebody spent them. It would be risky and the money would have become a liability.

If the 3 packets were banded into a single bundle then 20 bills removed from one it would still maintain the integrity of the bundle.. toss it in the river upstream and it lands on TBAR, consistent with river flow. Rubber bands deteriorate/break and the 3 packets separate slightly exactly as found with rubber band frags attached top and bottom not sides.

 

BTW.. 1 packet of 100 bills is about 1/2" thick.. 3 packets = 1.5" thick

Edited by FLYJACK

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15 hours ago, RobertMBlevins said:

EDIT: After staying up late and doing some SERIOUS soul-searching, I have decided to take Greg's advice. For 2020, any Cooper events hosted by AB of Seattle will be the same format we have been doing for the last two years. This means outdoor fun, not trying to arrange an indoor Cooper event. I know I made a previous post here about all that, for which I apologize for jumping the gun, but Greg is right. We should stick to the stuff we already know best, and what has been working for us. 

 

I'll bet anyone here 10 bucks that this won't stay cancelled long :D.

 

 

Edited by ParrotheadVol

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15 hours ago, RobertMBlevins said:

Absolutely zero...IF that suspect was truly 'vetted'. Some were dismissed on almost a whim, or without a real investigation. Others were thoroughly investigated with boots on the ground. Anyone in that category can be said to be eliminated, in my humble opinion. 

These suspects include Duane Weber, Sheridan Peterson, and L.D. Cooper. All three of them were boots-on-the-ground investigated and found lacking. Anyone else I couldn't say for sure. 
*************

Man, I hate to split hairs here, but I guess I'm going to anyway. There is a difference between being eliminated officially, and "can be said to be eliminated, in my humble opinion". To the best of my knowledge, both LD Cooper and Sheridan Peterson have never been officially eliminated by the FBI, at least publicly. I'm sure there are others. By all means, if I'm wrong, please show me where I'm wrong and I will gladly stand corrected. I just want people to understand, someone isn't eliminated just because Blevins says they are. And yes, I understand that the FBI has moved on from all of these folks and there is no more investigating them. That doesn't mean they were eliminated though.

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Actually, nobody is really eliminated..

The FBI files state that some suspects who were eliminated were later un-eliminated.

Elimination for many suspects was subjective.

 

So, elimination by the FBI wasn't really conclusive.. 

 

BTW,, I found no indication Hahneman was ever eliminated. He was investigated years after he was in custody.

Edited by FLYJACK

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20 hours ago, RobertMBlevins said:

Was wondering if you still believe LD is a suspect in the Cooper case...or if you disagree simply because it was I who brought up the idea he no longer qualifies. not. 

I don't think LD is Cooper, but I also don't think the FBI ever officially said so either. Look, there's an old saying about how if you say something enough times, it becomes the truth. If you say LD and Sheridan were eliminated enough times, people will eventually accept it as fact, even if it isn't true - and for all I know, it may be true, I just haven't seen it if it is. But you will say that, and say it again and then somewhere down the line - a week, a month, maybe a year - but at some point, you will remind us all how Fred Gutt (?) said that Kenny boy had never been eliminated. That's called spin, and you're very good at it. I would assume that to be eliminated, one must first be investigated, but let's not get caught up in details. So, for future reference, LD and Sheridan were both investigated by the FBI and as far as we can tell have never been officially eliminated as suspects even though the case is pretty much closed and no one is being looked at any longer. I'm sure there are plenty of others that we could say the same about. Even though the FBI is most certainly aware of Kenny Christiansen, they never bothered to investigate him and obviously did not consider him a viable suspect. Again, unless there is something there that we are unaware of.

That Robert, is my reasoning for pointing these things out. It isn't because I think good ol' uncle LD is DB Cooper. It's just because I like to keep the facts straight and that isn't always easy here in Coppertown is it?

Pretty simple, right?

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One thing I noticed,, 

The FBI docs names the suspects they have investigated who have died since..

Rackstraw, McCoy, Coffelt and others...

Sheridan Peterson's name is redacted as he is still alive.

 

Hahneman is redacted but he died almost 30 years ago.

 

What are the redaction policies,, one is privacy.

A dead person does not fall under the privacy provision.

 

So, why redact a dead person??

 

EDIT: here they are..  so why Hahneman?

A. Could reasonably be expected to interfere with enforcement proceedings; 
B. Would deprive a person of a right to a fair trial or an impartial adjudication; 
C. Could reasonably be expected to constitute an unwarranted invasion of personal privacy; 
D. Could reasonably be expected to disclose the identity of confidential source, including a state, local, or foreign agency or authority or any private institution that furnished information on a confidential basis, and, in the case of a record or information compiled by a criminal law enforcement authority in the course of a criminal investigation or by an agency conducting a lawful national security intelligence investigation, information furnished by a confidential source; 
E. Would disclose techniques and procedures for law enforcement investigations or prosecutions or would disclose guidelines for law enforcement investigations or prosecutions if such disclosure could reasonably be expected to risk circumvention of the law, or; 
F. Could reasonably be expected to endanger the life or physical safety or any individual.

Edited by FLYJACK

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Suspect elimination is mostly subjective unless the person's location during NORJAK was confirmed.

Bernie Rhodes and Russell Calame claimed McCoy was Cooper but his prints did not match the NORJAK prints. They claim that the unidentified NORJAK prints are not confirmed as Cooper.

and..

The Raleigh cigarettes were checked for prints and none found.

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Ran into something very strange,,

Tried a BOP lookup for Hahneman, couldn't find him, he was in Federal prison from 1972-1984.. Paroled and discharged in 1984. Turns out his named was misspelled in the DOP database but I found it trying different spellings. The record showed he was released in 1991, just before he died. This doesn't make sense.

I ran a FOIA request and was told they have no record of him. I pointed out the misspelled name and they re-iterated NO RECORD. Destroyed after 10 years??

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1 minute ago, RobertMBlevins said:

Do you know the circumstances of his arrest and trial? People don't get arrested and end up in prison on the same day. Not generally. Time in county jail, a trial, bail or no bail, possible appeals before sentencing, etc come into play here. 

In other words, if Hahneman was sent to Federal prison in early 1972, he may not have been actually available to do the Cooper hijacking. He may have been sitting in detention waiting for trial or something. Just saying. 

Probably need to pin down where and when he was arrested, circumstances of arraignment and trial, etc to determine where he actually WAS in late 1971. If he got bail prior to sentencing, generally you can't leave the area and the bail guys try to make sure you comply. Doesn't mean he didn't leave the area to do the Cooper Caper but I think some research of his whereabouts and activities regarding the time prior to actually GOING to prison is needed here. 

I do know the circumstances and timeframe. He hijacked a (US) 727 May 5 1972, jumped from the rear airstairs with a ransom into the Honduran jungle at night, the plane was directed to Mexico then looped over Honduras landing back in Mexico. He turned himself in 4 weeks later and was in US custody from June 1972 till September 1972 when he plead guilty for reduced charges (deal) then serving Federal time until 1984 for the May 5 hijacking.

He was available for the Cooper hijacking timeframe.

I have tracked many of his movements between December 1971 and May 5 1972. He was a loner and estranged from his family in PA for many years.

 

His name is redacted in the FBI files,, why, he died in 1991, there is no privacy concern.

and oddly the BOP had spelled his first name wrong with a record stating he was in custody until 1991. 

 

He has always been labelled a Cooper copycat but a US official in Honduras at the time stated that Hahneman had planned his hijacking for years.

 

 

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