47 47
quade

DB Cooper

Recommended Posts

21 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

Tom,

Another, the Lycopodium Clavatum.. the pill lubricant.

The conclusion was Cooper was a pill popper.

Hahneman had and used Dramamine and Compoz during his hijacking.

 

How do we find out if these contained Lycopodium Clavatum, especially the Compoz as it had a foil wrapper which requires a pill lubricant.

I have researched the early Compoz tablets and can't determine if it was coated. It was changed in the late 70's as one of its ingredients was banned.

FBI - "Prior to eating a Dramamine pill, the hijacker broke the pill in half and required the First Officer to consume half of the pill. The First Officer stated he thought the hijacker would parachute from the plane once they were airborne. He further suggested that this individual should be compared with D. B. Cooper, who hijacked a Northwest Airlines plane in Seattle previously."

 

FBI - Compoz - “This tranquilizer was given to stewardess ________ on 5/5/72, by the Unsub hijacker of flight 175. According to ______ hijacker handled this foil package without the benefit of gloves.”

 

"Compoz contains a long list of ingredients, some of which are known to have sedating effects at doses higher than those in the patent medicine. The contents are scopolamine (a sedative), the antihistamines methapyrilene and pyrilamine maleate (which also have sedating effects), salicylamide (a pain reliever), extract of passion flower (believed to be sedative at high doses) and the B vitamins, thiamine, riboflavin, pyridoxine and niacinami de."
 

"Dr. Rickels said that scopolamine, to name one ingredient, could produce such side effects as blurred vision, increased pressure in the eye, urinary retention and, at high doses, mental confusion, excitement and delirium."
https://www.nytimes.com/1973/01/14/archives/study-criticizes-effect-of-compoz-review-by-fda-ingredients-listed.html

 

Compoza.jpg.8ac709b347a2ce4f6f67e871b9466546.jpg

compoztest.jpeg.2bbe711fff661c67f38fa90c4d88fe92.jpeg

 

Where is the information saying he had these type pills?  I think I heard this before but was wondering where. Thanks.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, BParker said:

Where is the information saying he had these type pills?  I think I heard this before but was wondering where. Thanks.

This was Hahneman.. not Cooper, he had Dramamine and Compoz for the crew for his hijacking. 

Cooper also said he had pills for the crew.

Lycopodium Clavatum, a pill lubricant was found on the Cooper tie.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 hours ago, ParrotheadVol said:

I made my first road trip in a few weeks today (to Alabama of all places, the very week of the Alabama - Tennessee game). 

I'm a little behind on podcasts, so today I finally got around to listening to the Marla podcast. I gotta say, I thoroughly enjoyed it. I'd like to hang out with Marla some time and throw back a few Miller Lites. 

She's a really cool gal. I agree, I'd love to have beers with her.

Thanks for listening to the show.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It wasn't just lycopodium clavatum..

"was in fact a powder residue made up of titanium dioxide, silicates and alumina."

but it is true that finding a match isn't conclusive, it is part of a comprehensive profile..

Edited by FLYJACK

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, RobertMBlevins said:

All three of those materials have something in common. They can all be included somehow in the manufacturing of aluminum. They have many other separate uses, sure. But all three have been used in the aluminum industry, depending on the use for that aluminum. One *possible* way all three of those materials could end up on a tie is if the owner worked in a place that cut, or did grinding on aluminum parts of different types. Yes, this could be Boeing of course. 

It could also be someone who worked in one of the many subcontractors associated with Boeing. I once did some restoration work for a now-defunct place in Kent, WA named Valley Tool Company. That place had a Boeing contract, and took all kinds of metal work that included tons of grinding. They worked with titanium, aluminum, high-speed steel, you name it. Constant grinding and cutting and drilling all over the shop with buckets of the chips sitting near all the machines. The stuff got on your clothes just walking through the place. 

When the buckets got full, they would haul them to recyclers for sometimes big money, depending on the type of chip or leftover material in the bucket. High-speed steel paid especially well, but so did titanium chip. The owner sometimes sent me to the recyclers to get the money, even though my main job was to try and level an old building next door. Brother...if you have never picked up a five gallon bucket full of high speed steel chip, you should try it sometime. LOL...really, really heavy. I could barely lift it and you didn't use the handle or it would tear free. 

You have conflated the "powder"... with other particles.

The Lycopodium Clavatum was a powder "residue made up of titanium dioxide, silicates and alumina."

 

There were other particles which suggest some type of industrial environment.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Haven't had a chance to listen to the Marla Vortex yet. And a quick search shows a fair amount about Marla, but not so much about her uncle other than how he relates as a possible suspect.

Where was he from, and was it ever established whether he was/became a jumper?

The reason I ask is, and forgive me if I'm wrong, this is a very old memory, but I seem to remember a Lynn Doyle jumping at Southern California drop zones in the early 80's. Don't remember 'Cooper' being part of his name, just Lynn Doyle, everyone just called him 'Doyle'. Would/could this be the same guy?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't think it was ever established that he had any jump experience. There really isn't that much that we know about him. The FBI called him their "most promising" suspect, but there's really nothing that I have seen that would justify that. They obviously saw something there that peaked their interest, but I have no idea what that was.

Marla was actually here on DZ for a short period after her story broke. She wasn't treated very well. Someone brought up some personal stuff that had no place here and she got pissed and left. Can't say that I blame her.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Robert, as I said above, I've never seen much in the way of evidence that would lead me to consider LD a viable suspect. However, IF he was Cooper, Marla was a child at the time that it happened. Any landing spot for him would be pure speculation on her part even if he was the hijacker. For that reason, I don't look at that as one of the reasons to dismiss her story. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, RobertMBlevins said:

Her own Facebook postings...probably. Or something else. She was insistent that her uncle landed outside Sisters, Oregon and that the other uncle was waiting for him on the ground. And that she saw radios...and that's how they did the rendezvous. She said this a few times to national news as well. 

But later, when she was asked to explain the Tina Bar money...which was a great deal of distance from Sisters...she changed her story entirely, saying he jumped at Tina Bar and lost some of the money on the way down. At that point, a lot of people began not buying her story. I only did the one interview with her. The unedited version is pretty bad. 

Also, people wondered why nobody in her family...ALL of whom were at the grandmother's house in Sisters until the following Saturday after the hijacking...would back her story or offer a single bit of supporting testimony. It was a period of months between the time she got her police connection to contact the FBI for her, and by the time the story broke, someone else...mother, sister, brother...(especially MOTHER, who was an adult at the time of the hijacking)...should have had something to say. 

Flyjack says in part:  "The Lycopodium Clavatum was a powder "residue made up of titanium dioxide, silicates and alumina."

I thought LC was a natural substance. Description on it says it comes from a plant. 

To Everyone Else...and concerning Marla Cooper:

I call it like I see it. I am not in a popularity contest, nor do I believe in the concept of 'Cooper Royalty,' where some folks...no matter what ridiculous thing they try to do or say in the case, or with the public..if it is wrong, a lie, or negative...

...is magically overlooked or forgiven...

...just because they are 'accepted' by the other members of Cooper Royalty. No one is above the truth. Not me, not you, not anyone...when it comes to Cooper. There is already enough BS floating around on it now. 

I get messages from people, encouraging ones sometimes...telling me that at least they trust me to give it to them straight and without an agenda. If that puts me outside the small, rather closed Cooper community, then so be it. I would rather be there than spend time back-slapping with others telling each other how cool we all are, or how someone else is so bad because they don't support the concept of Cooper Royalty. B| I do have a certain set of morals, and I'm not pointing fingers, but my biggest pet peeve is PHONIES...no matter where they are or who they represent.

Positive and truth are rewarded. Negative and phony are brought into the light of day, sometimes for all to see. This policy automatically makes you a few enemies, but I would rather live in that world than in the alternative. It makes it easier to look at yourself in the mirror each morning. 

Nobody has achieved perfection in truth or accuracy when it comes to Cooper. Not even me. A couple of examples:  When I said that I had the Palmer Report coming from Portland State University, when I knew I had only APPLIED to get it...and never got it anyway. Or when I insisted that Captain Scott actually walked back to speak with Cooper. There are more examples, I'm sure. Just goes to show we're all basically riding the same ship...but some people hang out in different staterooms than others. 

To clarify,,

Lycopocium Clavatum is a natural substance, however Kaye found that it was a "residue made up of titanium dioxide, silicates and alumina." on the Cooper tie.

It wasn't pure,, that "powder formulation" led Kaye to conclude it was a pill lubricant.

Lycopodium Clavatum can be found in many things but this powder formulation seems to be specific. It was also used for a latex lubricant but it was eliminated from the market. Not clear if it was still used at the time.

There were other particles of pure titanium, aluminum and silicon which are not related to the LC  powder.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, RobertMBlevins said:

Up early this morning and found another book at Amazon by a hijacker who was let off the sky pirate charge on mental issues. Fooled them good, I guess. Added to my Wish List at Amazon and will be ordering soon. Like some of the other recent 'books-by-hijackers' I've found, I didn't know this guy either. 

Found this one after I posted #14 of the Brendan Koerner series, 100 Days/100 Hijackers at the Quora Cooper site. No links. You probably know where all that lives anyway. B| 

Koerner might know more about hijackers over the years than any of us do. 

What are the details of this person being let off on mental issues?  Did he have to go to a mental home at all? Was this before or after Cooper? I ask because I wonder how many people got off on a hijacking charge claiming mental illness.  Given that there were a lot of hijackings, did anyone else get off on that?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

US 727 hijackings for ransom with parachutes..

Only Cooper, McCoy, Hahneman, Heady and McNally actually jumped.

 

November 24, 1971  Dan Cooper aka D B Cooper 


January 12, 1972  Billy Gene Hurst, Jr - Apprehended after crew secretly escaped. Never jumped. History of mental illness.

April 7, 1972  Richard Floyd McCoy, Jr -  arrested and convicted.

April 9, 1972 Stanley Harlan Speck - tricked by crew and apprehended sent to mental institution.

May 5, 1972  Frederick William Hahneman - jumped into Honduran jungle surrendered 4 weeks later.

June 2, 1972 Rob Heady - apprehended next day on ground.

June 23, 1972  Martin J. McNally - fingerprints led to McNally.

July 12, 1972  Melvin Martin Fisher - demanded ransom and chute opened door and decided to give up.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

US 727 hijackings for ransom with parachutes..

Only Cooper, McCoy, Hahneman, Heady and McNally actually jumped.

 

November 24, 1971  Dan Cooper aka D B Cooper 


January 12, 1972  Billy Gene Hurst, Jr - Apprehended after crew secretly escaped. Never jumped. History of mental illness.

April 7, 1972  Richard Floyd McCoy, Jr -  arrested and convicted.

April 9, 1972 Stanley Harlan Speck - tricked by crew and apprehended sent to mental institution.

May 5, 1972  Frederick William Hahneman - jumped into Honduran jungle surrendered 4 weeks later.

June 2, 1972 Rob Heady - apprehended next day on ground.

June 23, 1972  Martin J. McNally - fingerprints led to McNally.

July 12, 1972  Melvin Martin Fisher - demanded ransom and chute opened door and decided to give up.

Good summary.  Add Lapoint to the list.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I thought Marla's written answers were, as usual, quite articulate.  Sure there was some sarcasm, but that is certainly understandable given the disrespect and hostility thats been directed towards her. I don't think her uncle was Cooper, but I think her story reflected childhood memories not made-up facts. I talked with her at some length at  Grays Portland symposium and didn't detect any indicia of lying. I asked her a lot about the CB walkie talkies used by LD  and her answers told me without any doubt that she really saw these in use. We really should try to get her to speak at Coopercon 2019. She lights up a room. Very attractive, intelligent, articulate and willing to answer tough questions. It has occurred to me that LD wasn't  Cooper but was trying to find Cooper's loot right after the news broke and before the authorities found it. One could get pretty banged up searching through thick brush at night. 

377

Edited by 377
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 10/20/2019 at 12:03 PM, FLYJACK said:

LaPoint jumped from a DC-9, he jumped from a small rear access door under the tailcone.

I jumped from a DC 9-21 in 2006. The ventral airstair door wasn't small. Are you saying that there was another door that LaPoint used? 

377

Edited by 377

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 minutes ago, 377 said:

I jumped from a DC 9-21 in 2006. The ventral airstair door wasn't small. Are you saying that there was another door that LaPoint used? 

377

yes, my read was that LaPoint didn't jump from a DC-9 rear Airstair but instead from a removable panel.

Not all DC-9s had aft airstairs, the ones without have a plug door.

https://www.nytimes.com/1972/01/22/archives/exparatrooper-is-held-in-hijacking.html

"According to an airline spokesman in San Francisco, the hijacker apparently first opened an emergency door on the side of the plane but saw that he might hit the engines if he bailed out there and ordered a little‐used rear door opened. The door is under hollow fiberglass cone that is a attached to the plane's that is make it more aerodynamic."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, RobertMBlevins said:

 

Anyone wanting to know whether LD was Cooper shouldn't even be speaking to Marla. They should be talking to the only living adult who was there the entire week...her MOTHER. Now she would be a good guest speaker. She is the only living member of the family who knows the truth one way or another. 

Perhaps the reason Marla's mom (or her brother or sister for that matter) won't back her story is because mom could be old fashioned and not willing to lie, even for a book deal for her daughter. If I asked my mom to back me on a baloney story, she would tell me to take a long walk off a short pier. Marla's mom could be the same way. 

Wrong once again. They did speak with her mother and her mother agreed that LD could be the hijacker. She even did a TV interview about it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think some of you may have missed the part where I said I do NOT believe LD was DBC and I give credit to Robert Blevins for leading me to this conclusion. I just don't ascribe evil cunning motives to Marla. It's easy for time and subsequent events to morph memories, especially distant ones from childhood. 

377

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, 377 said:

I think some of you may have missed the part where I said I do NOT believe LD was DBC and I give credit to Robert Blevins for leading me to this conclusion. I just don't ascribe evil cunning motives to Marla. It's easy for time and subsequent events to morph memories, especially distant ones from childhood. 

377

Exactly, there is nothing there but childhood memories whether sincere or not they are not reliable.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, RobertMBlevins said:

Wrong? I don't think so.

I saw that ABC interview and a couple of others. She offered absolutely no evidence on WHY she would suggest this. Not a scrap, not a whisper. And she was right there in the home doing Thanksgiving with the family the entire week. Kind of strange, don't you think?

I'm going to toss out some unsolicited advice. Once you start looking at witnesses and evidence in the case with a balanced eye, instead of going along with 'the program' on a popularity basis...you'll gain a lot more credibility. :) In other words, you will get the attention of the public, (who are an important part of solving the case) and the events you sponsor will have more credibility as well. 

Ha...it's a good thing you have someone like me who isn't afraid to ask the tough questions. Or to present the truth on certain issues without regard whether it upsets someone or not. 

Ok, first and foremost let me get this out of the way: I do not, and never have believed that LD Cooper was DB Cooper. Second, I don't give a shit about attention of the public. Third, I do not sponsor any events. And fourth, you would be hard pressed to find anyone on any of these forums that looks at witnesses and evidence with a more balanced eye than I do. I know you don't agree with that because I don't support your suspect, but that's the truth.

You said back there that if they wanted the truth on LD, then they should have spoke to the one person who "knew the truth one way or the other". I was merely pointing out to you, that they did speak to that person and that person backed Marla's story, at least to a degree. You obviously had no recollection of that, or at least didn't recall it. Too bad your memory isn't as good as some of the Kenny witnesses.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

47 47