DB Cooper

[FLYJACK 654]

1 hour ago, mrshutter45 said:

Has no personal bias to it..Sailshaw made the exact claim. 

You are saying it makes more sense to throw evidence in a river vs burning it? thousands of crimes are covered up with fire. Tina wasn't in the area till 79/80. why would she go back to the area of the crime to discard? it's a horrible way to try and get rid of evidence. cut it up into small pieces, shred it, toss it in a fireplace. lots of ways to get rid of something that small. why the river? she could of cut it up and thrown it away. bodies go into dumps and are never found. why even tell the FBI? it puts a spotlight directly on you. do you know if they were searched after the admission? I'm very skeptical of things because I've been accused of things that were completely wrong but "made sense" . I'm talking about legal issue's and not just words. 

The last accusation against me was a hit and run. I had a silver Dodge. the guy was hit by a silver dodge. my tag started with the three numbers given by the driver. the driver ID'd me.

Problem was the report said a Dodge 1500. that's a full size truck. I have a Dakota. the partial tag was my temp tag from 2008. it was 2015 when the hit and run occurred. I had a valid plate on the truck. the insurance measured both vehicles and my truck couldn't reach the dent in the back of his car. it was above my hood. he ID'd me from the police showing him a picture of my driver's license. no photo lineup. even when my lawyer showed the pictures and measurements and they still wanted to go to trial. a motion was filed based on the police failing to do a photo lineup and they could no longer use my name or myself in the trial. they dropped the charges. including a ticket for a expired tag.....yes, cop gave me a ticket for a expired 30 day 8 year old tag. I also tried to point out that a phone number in big letters with my company name was on the tailgate. they didn't care about that either. 

Cost me almost $3,000 to prove my innocence for a 10 mph accident I had nothing to do with. took almost six months to clear. the driver was trying to get $30,000 from my insurance company. he claimed two kids were in the back that his wife removed before the cops showed up. denied EMS twice on the report and months later wanted $10,000 for each person in the vehicle to cover hospital bills....so, bias has nothing to do with my conclusions...sorry. 

No, what I am saying is your logic is bad.. it is biased speculation used to reject a theory.

We need facts, not speculation to reject a theory. That doesn't mean you have to accept a theory.

You can't reject a theory because you think Tina would have burned the money instead of tossing it. 

Being skeptical is good, rejecting possibilities based on speculation isn't skepticism, it is a lack of reason.

You advance knowledge with theories, they get tested and confirmed or rejected with facts not opinions. 

[mrshutter45 21]

Robert, that was during the time the case was completely open. that's not the case now and they are finally releasing documents. they wouldn't do this before closing the investigation. you are mixing two periods into one. 1971 to 2016 the case was open and not subject to public demands. they would hold a press conference and that's the extent of it and how most, if not all in law enforcement deals with open cases. 

I will call Tom and ask him. he never mentioned it to me over the years we discussed this nor have you. I have a screenshot somewhere of you accepting Tom's email back in 2014 on this site. even if he did email them after the point of his visit. I doubt they would allow it. things like that don't happen often. it still doesn't grant the right to say he was denied. if I email Asking about the placard you can bet they will not answer, so do I say it's BS and start laying grounds for the placard being planted? 

Edited October 15, 2019 by mrshutter45

[mrshutter45 21]

26 minutes ago, RobertMBlevins said:

I would point out that the Amboy chute was discovered without its container and harness. This means a human being had to disconnect them and take them elsewhere, and then most likely, that same person buried the canopy. This same information about the article has been forwarded to Tom Kaye and his team. I have urged him to apply to the Seattle FBI again to be allowed to examine the Amboy chute

Parachutes are all over the planet. people use them for car covers, canopies, lines, no lines etc. no, it's not most likely the same person buried it. if Cooper buried it. the chute should of been balled up and small to bury easy, no? it should of come right out. you were not involved in 2008. I'm positive they measured the chute. why wouldn't they. they mention measuring another chute found in a 302? we don't have the full story. it's basically partial at most. 

When did Tom send this email. it had to be after you said Tom was denied or you would of mentioned this in the past when I corrected you. urging him doesn't imply he did..Tom never has a problem posting his emails...

What I see a is many of us conclude things far to early. we just don't have all the information and many try to fill in the gaps. 

Edited October 15, 2019 by mrshutter45

[mrshutter45 21]

15 minutes ago, RobertMBlevins said:

I didn't say Kaye emailed them. I said he asked the Seattle FBI if his team could examine the chute while they were in Seattle with the other evidence. And they had a standing offer to check the area where it was found. The FBI said no to both those things.

did you read his email. he said nothing of the sort...

We never saw the chute. We didn't think to ask about it at that time because it had been dismissed.

TK

You are not showing any proof of Tom asking them then or later....you have no problem showing the email to the FBI or even a reply but not Tom's? I already know exactly what he is going to say....you have been saying he was denied since 2014. that's why I emailed and asked him. the proof is above. 

[FLYJACK 654]

Maybe a DZ jumper can recognize something with this chute??

 

 

[mrshutter45 21]

Just now, RobertMBlevins said:

How are you positive they measured it? How do you know they did that using the parameters of a C-9 canopy? How do YOU know how it was buried, or how difficult was it to remove it from the ground after maybe 37 years since the hijacking?

How do you know it was in the ground 37 years? how do you know it was put there by the original owner. it would be odd they didn't measure it. even in 1971. then I read a 302 about another chute and they state to measure it as one of the things to do confirming what I suspected when I said they probably measure chutes. it's common sense. they don't need an expert to measure it. same for taking a picture. they don't need a professional? 

Whether you accept it or not is not the FBI's concern the way I see it. what it does do is it opens the door to conspiracies..you are not presenting facts. you never seen the chute other than a picture. you never touched it. you are the one assuming. you don't know what the FBI knows. you are reading from new articles. you don't even know where it was found. all I've said is it was probably measured and no way to tell how long it was in the ground. 

[mrshutter45 21]

7 minutes ago, RobertMBlevins said:

.they were denied access to both the chute and the opportunity

I keep asking for proof and you keep claiming they were denied even after a email from the source proves the opposite of your claim...

 

We never saw the chute. We didn't think to ask about it at that time because it had been dismissed.

TK

???????????????

Edited October 15, 2019 by mrshutter45

[mrshutter45 21]

I worked at McChord AFB for over 20 years. One of my jobs was checking out reports of old plane crashes. I can tell you that finding an old parachute almost anywhere in Washington state means very little. the 62 MAW which is stationed at McChord has conducted cargo and personnel parachute drops all over the Pacfific Northwest for 50 years. It is not at all unusual to have a cargo chute separate from its cargo and drift for miles in an unexpected direction. And reports of old crashes are often inaccurate. I have investigated wreckage sightings and found aircraft several miles from their map positions. And when you factor in the number of skydiving clubs in the area, I am surprised that you can walk a mile in any rural area without tripping over an old parachute.

Dick Thurston

Edited October 15, 2019 by mrshutter45

[mrshutter45 21]

What's the claim here. Cossey packed a 25 year old chute into the container or did the FBI put the stamp of 1946 on the chute? 

[mrshutter45 21]

Robert, how would you be speaking for him if he says it in an email? 

As mentioned above. which conspiracy can we use. Cossey packed a 25 year old chute or the FBI put the stamp on the chute? how will it fit into being Cooper's chute? 

[mrshutter45 21]

I don't think you are being honest about it. that's why. you are claiming he was denied. I showed his mail. you claim to have an email stating different and refuse to post it. you post everyone else's emails? we have a thing called PM? why do I have to do your work or expect an answer from Tom minutes after a comment? 

you say no on the stamp that Cossey would of seen. so, we are now saying a respected rigger, regardless of what you think about him put an old chute marked 1946 into a container....some kids found it and the same guy who packed the chute reported it as a silk chute 34 feet....but it's not a conspiracy? did he post that in the packing card or mention it like he did the dummy chute? was it a Pioneer chute. 26, 28 feet. you seem to know? I like to think Cossey knew what he was talking about. I seriously doubt they overlooked the size or other obvious factors. the stamp isn't consistent with a personnel chute. I found a cargo chute with the same markings and showed it many times over. 

Also, what exactly transpired after Cossey made the 10 second statement. did he "dump" it back into the car or do anything else. what did Carr do while he was at Cossey's. nothing happened past the 10 seconds? 

Edited October 15, 2019 by mrshutter45

[mrshutter45 21]

17 minutes ago, RobertMBlevins said:

This is what I do NOT doubt:  That Cossey not only lied to a reporter the same week they brought him the chute for examination, almost getting the guy fired

April fools joke, wasn't it? that's not lying...

I'm still waiting for the email proof surrounding Mr. Kaye. seems to be rather hard to even PM the proof? glad I didn't take it as truth. could of been fired for a such a lie, right? 

[mrshutter45 21]

39 minutes ago, RobertMBlevins said:

You cannot believe an investigation, or even the word of someone on such a large subject...when they start out with a big lie. Leave Tom Kaye out of this. His team was refused access to both the chute and the location it was found. If they were granted access there would be no doubt...and we wouldn't be here now.

That is not true at all Robert. you won't even accept Tom's word....

We never saw the chute. We didn't think to ask about it at that time because it had been dismissed

Note the word "we" that means all of them that were there....is Tom a liar now too? 

I have contacted Tom. it's right above for all to see. I have asked him several times since 2014. I got the same answer. 

Edited October 15, 2019 by mrshutter45

[mrshutter45 21]

Robert, it's your own words, not mine. you are making the claim that goes against what Tom Kaye told me? your failure to prove it tells me he never made the claim. you have to show the burden of proof and not me. I've shown the proof. I'm not upset about anything. it's more towards you asking Tom for permission. it's your claim. prove it!

[mrshutter45 21]

You didn't ask directly about the questions. you threw in the "or later" . should of be a direct question to when he was at Seattle and not later. what is the date of the email? 

[mrshutter45 21]

On 1/13/2014 1:33 AM, clourim wrote:

Hi Tom, I was wondering while you were working with the FBI did they deny you access to the Amboy chute, or was it thrown away since they didn't consider it Cooper evidence? or did you not even bother with it? Robert Blevins is claiming you had access to everything but the chute.

 

 

Thanks

Dave Brown

 

I as direct with the question..no "or later" involved. 

 

[mrshutter45 21]

I never claimed it was a simple joke. I said it was a April fools joke, wasn't it...just because the guy almost lost his job doesn't make it a lie. makes it a joke gone wrong...

[mrshutter45 21]

Plenty of times you made the statement of them having access to everything but the chute. that was part of your argument over the years. it was always something like "Tom Kaye had access to the evidence at Seattle but was denied access to the Amboy chute. 

where am I being deceptive?  

[TomKaye 1]

Answer a couple of questions and create a controversy. Ok I am here, ask away. You guys can post my emails.

 

PS talking to some producers that might spend some serious dollars on the case (fingers crossed).

Tom Kaye

[mrshutter45 21]

Here is what Tom emailed me just a while ago....

We didn’t see the chute when we were there on the first trip with Larry Carr. It was not an issue at that time so we had no interest and didn’t ask.

When the controversy showed up, we asked Larry Carr about getting the info on where it was found and we were denied because he said it was a junk yard.

When we went to Seattle again and met with Curtis in person we asked if we could test the chute to see if it was nylon and we were turned down.

 

So yes both answers were right.

[mrshutter45 21]

26 minutes ago, RobertMBlevins said:

Here's a good FOIA request for you:  Ask to see the files that were created after they discovered the chute. 

That's more of your position than mine. 

[BParker 2]

Great! So no more talk about the Amboy chute and endless posts arguing about it?  Nice to see Tom Kaye post on here (had to sift through a few pages to actually see that he posted).

[FLYJACK 654]

7 hours ago, TomKaye said:

Answer a couple of questions and create a controversy. Ok I am here, ask away. You guys can post my emails.

 

PS talking to some producers that might spend some serious dollars on the case (fingers crossed).

Tom Kaye

Tom,,

Particle pattern on the tie..

The tie has what appears to be particle concentrations in horizontal lines on the front of the tie and if you look close on the front of the back piece of the tie..

Hard to imagine those patterns of particles deposited while the tie was worn.

That suggests the tie was rubbed across a sharp/narrow object.. as if it were used to wipe something or it was stored folded laying on the particles..

The control tie particle distribution looked completely random, the cooper tie was not. 

The tie was manufactured/sold around 1964. It had lots of time and environments to collect those particles. It seems unlikely they all came from one environment.

 

 

[FLYJACK 654]

Tom,

Another, the Lycopodium Clavatum.. the pill lubricant.

The conclusion was Cooper was a pill popper.

Hahneman had and used Dramamine and Compoz during his hijacking.

 

How do we find out if these contained Lycopodium Clavatum, especially the Compoz as it had a foil wrapper which requires a pill lubricant.

I have researched the early Compoz tablets and can't determine if it was coated. It was changed in the late 70's as one of its ingredients was banned.

FBI - "Prior to eating a Dramamine pill, the hijacker broke the pill in half and required the First Officer to consume half of the pill. The First Officer stated he thought the hijacker would parachute from the plane once they were airborne. He further suggested that this individual should be compared with D. B. Cooper, who hijacked a Northwest Airlines plane in Seattle previously."

 

FBI - Compoz - “This tranquilizer was given to stewardess ________ on 5/5/72, by the Unsub hijacker of flight 175. According to ______ hijacker handled this foil package without the benefit of gloves.”

 

"Compoz contains a long list of ingredients, some of which are known to have sedating effects at doses higher than those in the patent medicine. The contents are scopolamine (a sedative), the antihistamines methapyrilene and pyrilamine maleate (which also have sedating effects), salicylamide (a pain reliever), extract of passion flower (believed to be sedative at high doses) and the B vitamins, thiamine, riboflavin, pyridoxine and niacinami de."
 

"Dr. Rickels said that scopolamine, to name one ingredient, could produce such side effects as blurred vision, increased pressure in the eye, urinary retention and, at high doses, mental confusion, excitement and delirium."
https://www.nytimes.com/1973/01/14/archives/study-criticizes-effect-of-compoz-review-by-fda-ingredients-listed.html

 

 

[ParrotheadVol 70]

I made my first road trip in a few weeks today (to Alabama of all places, the very week of the Alabama - Tennessee game). 

I'm a little behind on podcasts, so today I finally got around to listening to the Marla podcast. I gotta say, I thoroughly enjoyed it. I'd like to hang out with Marla some time and throw back a few Miller Lites.