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quade

DB Cooper

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The weather was kinda crappy and I had a few other things to do, so I didn't go to the dropzone this weekend. That means that by the time I go next weekend, it'll be two weeks between jumps. Man, my feet are gonna be sore from standin' on the ground so long...

Anyways, I thought I'd exercise a bit of futility and throw a few cents in.

Robert and Shutter, if this thread gets shut down again, I'm gonna blame YOU. The two of you constantly bickering the same crap back and forth in a public forum is embarrassing, and you guys should be ashamed of yourselves. And now you want the thread trashed because you can't have the last word? How selfish and petulant is that? Seriously, you two should just get on the phone and argue about it privately. Better, you should just drop it. Apparently it's old crap and you're not going to agree. Rather than trash this thread, Meso should just ban the two of you. WHICH WOULD BE A SHAME, because the two of you are clearly long time, knowledgable researchers on the case, and your input ON THE CASE is valuable. So PLEASE...

Derek's constant spamming is annoying, but at least he's got some humor about it, and it's easy to skim past. (That photo of the Sirhan Band, or whatever it was, was hilarious.) But trying to pick the needles like the latest Vortex podcast or Flyjack's contributions out of the haystack of balderdash between you two, THAT'S what is annoying.

Again, gentlemen, PLEASE...

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(edited)

More Placard evidence..

I found a better image of the "placard",, also a pic of the 727 control panel Boeing decals.

The letters DO NOT not match the Boeing era font, note the "C" (more open), the "A" (sharp top) and the E (mid line length). The Placard has a different/newer font.

The font does not match Boeing 727 external decals either.

 

Conclusion,, based on this and the other facts it is extremely unlikely the "placard" came from NORJAK.

 

727airstairsplacard.jpeg

727_47.jpg

Edited by FLYJACK

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(edited)

You try to stay away from all the negativity posted on this thread. when I check (shortcut) in on this thread Robert pops up and I click on his profile to go to the most recent page. it appears not to be part of the rules of Dropzone according to Mr. Blevins...not only is he upset about me. he haD to tell me about another member of this forum that according to Robert looked at his PUBLIC profile? the horror.  I was actually threatened to stay off his profile lol. 

 

Added: this coming from a guy who uses a proxy server to intrude where he was blocked for bad behavior. more hypocrisy....

 

Edited by mrshutter45

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22 hours ago, RobertMBlevins said:

Message from a retired NWA stewardess named Pam, who worked at the airline before the Cooper hijacking and afterward. Thought Cooper fans might want to see it. Not because she sort-of considers KC as a good suspect, but because of her insights regarding the time around the hijacking from a former NWA stew. The content below is COPYRIGHTED, since it was sent to us exclusively and we have gained permission to use it in another venue. 

 

Cool. I hope you don't mind that I copied it and posted on another forum I'm part of. If you do mind, too bad.

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I've temporarily locked this thread.

Many of you guys have shown exactly why this thread was initially locked. This forum is a place for the discussion of the DB Cooper case, not the discussion of members who own Cooper websites. Back and forths between users on personal matters not directly relating to the case offers no insight for anyone.

I also want to use this time to remind you guys that there is an ignore feature which should be used. It can hide both posts and private messages from users whom you wish not to be bothered by.

ignored users.jpg

This thread will be reopened in 24 hours, with a much less liberal approach. Since you guys (as a whole) are unable to govern yourselves, you're forcing us to play adult and do it for you. 

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(edited)

Cooper first indicted Mexico,, (non stop US)

but during negotiation crew suggested San Francisco

hijacker suggested Phoenix

then the crew suggested Yuma or Reno.. (Eric Ulis will have to delete that part of his book claiming Cooper had connections to Yuma)

 

Cooper chose Reno...

 

This is crucial,, Cooper did not plan Reno or landing in US, he did not suggest Yuma.

His initial plan was changed and that may have altered his planned jump..

cooperphoenix.jpeg

Edited by FLYJACK

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I suggest anyone using a primary email address here change it. since this site has an open registration it allows spambots or human spammers to register and get to profiles and retrieve emails. I, along with several others have received emails claiming to be from this site and asking to reset your password. DO NOT follow any links the email provides or they will get your password. I've been getting up to five emails a day. I simply blocked the address. 

We have detected 3 failed log in attempts to your account from Cartersville, Georgia, 30121, United States.

If this wasn't you, someone else may be trying to access your account. These log in attempts were unsuccessful and we have blocked the IP address from further attempts so no action is required. You may however want to change your password for greater security, especially if you use the same password on other websites.

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6 hours ago, RobertMBlevins said:

Flyjack says in part:

You mean Portland of course. No big deal. According to Bernie Geestman's niece Denise, Cooper did it in her uncle's garage. Her testimony (shot in the front seat of Gayla's 1998 Nissan Pathfinder, from the back seat) comes out in the John Dower documentary. Sounded pretty convincing to me, but I would like to see Dower's take on things. They must be finished with editing by now. Minnow Films established the holding company for the film back in spring. Release is probably soon. Besides yours truly and Denise, other Cooper folk appearing in this film include Lyle Christiansen, Bruce Smith, and the Forman couple. Dower and crew were all over the USA for months. I don't know who else is included in the documentary. 

yup, I meant close to Portland..  

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Not a good theory.

There is no logical reason to put the money in a paper bag or any other type of container. None.

The money was not given to Cooper in a paper bag. If someone finds 3 stacks of Cooper money in a paper bag, it implies that Cooper is alive since it would be obvious that the money was removed from the bank bag and put into a paper bag. Who else would have access to the money to do that besides the guy that bailed out of the plane with it? It would in no way imply that Cooper died in the jump, but rather that he lived.

It is much more probable that the stacks of bills, however they got in the Columbia, traveled in the same container that they left the plane in. 

 

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The flightpath is solid, to reject it for an alternative requires the NORJAK crew, NWA, Boeing, the Air Force, flight controllers and chase pilots to all be collectively wrong and to cover it up.
 

 

There weren't three bundles found on TBAR..

There were 3 packets.. of 100 bills (one was missing some)

Cooper received randomize sized bundles of packets (100 bills).. 

The three packets found on TBAR went to Cooper in a bundle. The argument that the three packets landed independently and must have been in a container is not valid and an error. The 3 packets of money most likely came from ONE bundle. With that, there are many theories for the money arriving at TBAR as one bundle. 

 

I have several theories,, my favourite one is that the TBAR money was the money offered to the stews.. as we know it was separated from the money bag. But, it may as simple as Cooper dropping a bundle on the stairs and it fell off over the Columbia after he jumped.

 

 

 

Edited by FLYJACK

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19 minutes ago, FLYJACK said:

The flightpath is solid, to reject it for an alternative requires the NORJAK crew, NWA, Boeing, the Air Force, flight controllers and chase pilots to all be collectively wrong and to cover it up.
 

 

There weren't three bundles found on TBAR..

There were 3 packets.. of 100 bills (one was missing some)

Cooper received randomize sized bundles of packets (100 bills).. 

The three packets found on TBAR went to Cooper in a bundle. The argument that the three packets landed independently and must have been in a container is not valid and an error. The 3 packets of money most likely came from ONE bundle. With that, there are many theories for the money arriving at TBAR as one bundle. 

 

I have several theories,, my favourite one is that the TBAR money was the money offered to the stews.. as we know it was separated from the money bag. But, it may that Cooper dropped a bundle on the stairs and it fell off over the Columbia after he jumped.

 

 

 

On Page 16 of the files just released, it says the "tip" offered to the stews came from his own money. Not the ransom money. 

Tip.jpg

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52 minutes ago, EVickiW said:

On Page 16 of the files just released, it says the "tip" offered to the stews came from his own money. Not the ransom money. 

Tip.jpg

but Tina confirmed she asked for and rec'd ransom money, she claimed she gave it back,, and in one of the books Cooper offered money to the other stews as well.

 

I don't believe the tip story. It doesn't make sense or fit the timeline when you carefully line up all the Stew's stories. Cooper had his drink hours before and received change, no tip then. After he receives the ransom he hands ransom money to Tina, she returned it using the no tip allowed excuse but the time Cooper tried to tip the stew's came later. Cooper has $200,000 and tries to tip 3 the stew's change from a $20 after he gave ransom money to Tina,, no way.

In one of the Cooper books, Cooper offered the other stew's ransom money as well.

IMO, the tip story is bogus…  

 

At 14:29 in video, Cooper offered ransom money to EACH stew..  3 stews and 3 packets found on TBAR?

 

Edited by FLYJACK

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4 hours ago, RobertMBlevins said:

In the same container that they left in? That would assume Cooper went splash-into-the-Columbia, or all the radar data was wrong as well as the flight path, crew reports on where Cooper jumped are a lie, the Citizen Sleuths were wrong about their research, and three 'packets' somehow traveled miles together and ended up together with no other evidence found at Tina Bar...

That list of events is much MORE unlikely, Parrot. 

Robert, I don't pretend to know how the money got there. It's obviously the biggest unknown in this case, other than the obvious one. But the idea that Kenny, or anyone else, put money in a paper bag and tossed it in the Columbia to make it appear that Cooper died is ridiculous. If that was the plan, then why not plant the money somewhere within the area where he landed? If he survived, then Cooper knew where he came down and where they think he came down. Why go out of that range to plant money? And if you wanted them to find the money, tossing it in any body of water is not the way to make that happen. Again, this is a bad theory and it is a theory designed to fit around a suspect.

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4 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

but Tina confirmed she asked for and rec'd ransom money, she claimed she gave it back,, and in one of the books Cooper offered money to the other stews as well.

 

I don't believe the tip story. It doesn't make sense or fit the timeline when you carefully line up all the Stew's stories. Cooper had his drink hours before and received change, no tip then. After he receives the ransom he hands ransom money to Tina, she returned it using the no tip allowed excuse but the time Cooper tried to tip the stew's came later. Cooper has $200,000 and tries to tip 3 the stew's change from a $20 after he gave ransom money to Tina,, no way.

In one of the Cooper books, Cooper offered the other stew's ransom money as well.

IMO, the tip story is bogus…  

 

At 14:29 in video, Cooper offered ransom money to EACH stew..  3 stews and 3 packets found on TBAR?

 

I have always thought that he offered the change from the $20 as a tip and then later when the money was brought on board, he offered some to Tina after she made a joke about wanting some of it. That's the way I've always understood it to have happened.

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50 minutes ago, ParrotheadVol said:

I have always thought that he offered the change from the $20 as a tip and then later when the money was brought on board, he offered some to Tina after she made a joke about wanting some of it. That's the way I've always understood it to have happened.

me too, originally, but not so,,

I carefully went through the timeline from the witnesses in the FBI files and matched the stories up,,

This was hours after the drink change was given back to Cooper.

and the claim of Cooper tipping from pockets occurred after the money was on board and after Tina was given ransom money and claimed she returned it,,  that is one reason I believe it is a made up story, an embellishment, a virtue signal.

Only Cooper and the stews really know what happened.

Anybody really think Cooper is going to tip 3 stews from $18 when he has $200,000 and already gave some to Tina.

 

One TBAR theory is that one or more of the Stews kept some ransom money and discarded it later.. it never left the plane with Cooper.

Edited by FLYJACK

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42 minutes ago, FLYJACK said:

One TBAR theory is that one or more of the Stews kept some ransom money and discarded it later.. it never left the plane with Cooper.

Similar to the Recca account where he gave his buddy some money and he later tossed it. I don't buy that one either, but it makes more sense than an intentional plant.

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25 minutes ago, ParrotheadVol said:

Similar to the Recca account where he gave his buddy some money and he later tossed it. I don't buy that one either, but it makes more sense than an intentional plant.

There is more evidence to support this theory...  Tina moved to within a few miles of the Columbia River just upstream of TBAR in the late 1970's..

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4 hours ago, RobertMBlevins said:

And then it came to me WHY:  Because the FBI would realize a human being would have to have removed the rubber bands. And that points to either a plant, or someone got their hands on the money first. So he gambled three packets, hoping maybe at least one would be found. 

 

Which is my exact point on why he would not have put the money in a paper bag or some other kind of container.

Look, if I were going to plant something in hopes of it being found, the last damn place I would put it would be in a body of water. How many times have you seen cases where someone drops a gun, or a body or some other piece of damning evidence into a body of water? This happens all the time. They put things there to hide them from being discovered, not so that someone finds them.

Why not just go scatter a few bills on a river bank if that's your goal?

Also the idea that Kenny - and that's your endgame with this theory, let's not kid ourselves - would spend all of this money buying houses and stamp collections and loaning it out to a friend of a friend to buy a house, and still have stacks of bills lying around 4 years later in the same form and sequence he received them is a ridiculous notion in itself. Talk about eating your cake and having it too.

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I rank the "plant to be found" theory very low as finding it would have been extremely unlikely. If somebody wanted it found they would do it in a way that assured discovery.

 

My top three TBAR theories in no particular order..

The money washed down the Lewis to the Columbia, the massive 1976/77 dredge/barge operation across the river on Sauvie brought the money in material upstream by barge. Erosion caused it to come loose and deposit across the river on TBAR.

The TBAR money was the money offered to the stews. Discarded later.

The money was dropped and hung on the stairs to work loose and drop over the Columbia River upstream of TBAR. The stairs are only slightly open with no weight on them.

 

One of the 3 packets was missing 20 bills, either they deteriorated/separated and were not discovered at TBAR or somebody removed them between the hijacking and deposit on TBAR. If so, this supports the theory that somebody had possession of the packets after the hijacking, perhaps those 20 bills were spent..

 

I wish we could get the original ransom list "in order".

 

 

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