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DB Cooper

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3 minutes ago, JJG78 said:

Someone named Lynn recently said they were submitting reviews of 2 books on Amazon. Martin Andrade and Bruce Smith. Can someone please point me to those reviews? I only see old reviews.

If they said submitting vs submitted. the answer is right there....sounds like it hasn't occurred. 

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1 hour ago, JJG78 said:

Someone named Lynn recently said they were submitting reviews of 2 books on Amazon. Martin Andrade and Bruce Smith. Can someone please point me to those reviews? I only see old reviews.

Lynn's review is on the Canadian Amazon site. Not sure why it isn't posted on the main site, but here is the Link

Here is a selection from her review:

Quote

"Firstly, it has one of the most admirably concise yet complete recountings of the Cooper 1971 skyjacking that I have yet seen. The same is true for his summary of suspects - one, I might add, that contains all the ones that currently enjoy any credibility among students of the case, whereas even the Wikipedia page is missing some majors and focusing on some already discounted. The bibliography, endnotes, and transcripts of FBI crew interviews alone make this book well worth owning; I can hardly believe how much essential info is packed into this slim volume.

...

I must also cheer him for his clear, concise, and utterly logical laying out of evidence against the likelihood of Cooper perishing in the jump. He has used statistical information of non-expert jumpers' high survival rate even under intense wartime conditions, as well as references to other cases to demonstrate - effectively - how highly likely it is that Cooper did survive the jump."

 

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(edited)

 

A few interesting claims??? ( IMO, McCoy wasn't Cooper)

 

Seattle FBI made mistakes,, never collected mags and other articles for prints.

Cooper (and McCoy) used aviation flight plans for notes..  WHAT?

Tina saw Cooper remove tie.

Cooper offered packets of money to each STEW, Tosaw also said this.

Cooper yellow stains on fingers.

 

 

 

Edited by FLYJACK

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(edited)
7 hours ago, RobertMBlevins said:

After all of your efforts, you really haven't accomplished a thing

Really, I posted the first set of FBI 302's publicly that was a benefit to the case, before Gray posted his. I have flown/retraced the flight path via simulator. members of my forum have been on television shows that reach "your public". the forum has been in service for 5 years now. Tom Colbert contacted me when ever new 302 files were released under the Freedom Of Information act/law suit. numerous files have been released knocking down old theories. a majority of members from my forum are asked to speak at the last couple conferences. 

I have an ever growing Cooper vault containing vital information about the case. most things can not be found anywhere else or hard to locate. http://website.thedbcooperforum.com/Cooper-Vault/  the vault is currently awaiting over 20 new files to be uploaded. I just haven't got around to it because this is not my life so it has to wait until I have time to update the site. 

You insult me with this quote while just a couple days ago admitted it was a good site? this is one of the reasons people don't wish to work with you. Eric has already posted an update surrounding the conference in November while you are busy trashing him here. why would he post anything here. it's a negative thread. it's not easy working with some people. I try my best to keep some sort of communication. 

You don't really research the case. you only give opinions. have you even read more than one 302? we have a lot of them and it's very frustrating going through them seeing a dozen Kenny's and LD's, Weber's etc. it takes a lot of time to weed through them finding the fruit. multiple pages the same, sometime 4 or 5 in a row. surely, you don't believe promoting a camping trip to speak about someone else's video's will benefit the case, do you? the video's are gone and you are still going to comment about them lol. 

Edited by mrshutter45

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cold case investigators are laughing at you..one of the best things to do is start from scratch. you have to go through everything looking for things overlooked. we can only go over what is available. things have been found and noted. ignoring parts of a case is a major no no in anyone's book. 

I don't have time to go back and forth over this matter. gotta run...

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Robert, I don't know what else I can tell you...people research the case and don't care about the public. everyone has different views. you want everyone to follow your steps. I'm not in this to promote it. I RESEARCH THE CASE...If someone is truly interested in the case we have multiple avenue's for them to seek. schools find my forum, colleges, people from all walks of life and countries. you bring the public here to read all of this nonsense? where is Cooper in all of this? this thread is dead. no discussion here surrounding Cooper just gossip and constant pleas for promotion and speaking negative about someone trying to have a conference. If Eric brings in a hundred people that's 90% more than any camping trip? where does the negativity end with you? you live right in the heart of Cooper country and camping is the best you got? Eric is further away doing much more. regardless of his beliefs. he's reaching out to the public while you flush him down the toilet? none of this belongs here Robert. you drive people away with all the negativity. 

I don't agree with a lot of things Eric claims. the removal of HIS video's were HIS choice. I simply removed the thread. end of story. why would I hold that against him. has the public spoken out in anger over his decision? you make mountains out of mole hills..how can people be interested in all of this drama? this is exactly what happened here the last time this thread shutdown. nothing has changed what so ever...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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I never claimed to be the leader of anything. this is all coming from you. once again, it's rather simple Robert. you claim to have all the answers surrounding the public. when are YOU going to stand up and show the world how it's done vs sitting at the keyboard in the middle of the night complaining? make the biggest event happen. you claim you don't need us. stop whining and just do it.  you have 220 seats for FREE. stop telling us what you could do and actually do it. 

This appears to be your chance to prove what you claim. why do you always fail to come through? this is business, right? show us how to run that business. you can get the space for free and say you don't need us and yet you do nothing. it doesn't make sense. what does make sense is all you do is complain about everyone else. stock holders are very nervous in your business. a collapse in near. everything is ready for you a turn key event and all you do is complain. 

The owner of the company I worked for 10 years ago says it all for you Robert....Just Do It....

 

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(edited)

I see the 220 seat deal was at Auburn. that's the one you claimed for years that you "packed the house" and then admitted only about 50 people showed up to any event you had. 

It still doesn't make sense that you have Jim to hold the event in Portland. you say you don't need us and yet all you do is complain. it appears you need us more than we need you. I don't need you for anything. I research the case. that's my interest but you want to claim I'm some sort of leader. that's completely false. all you are doing is projecting. 

I have a forum exclusive to DB Cooper. that's the extent of it. nothing more. it doesn't have to be promoted for your satisfaction nor does it have to conform to your satisfaction. it has nothing to do with you. Robert M Blevins should worry about what Robert M Blevins does. you should also allow actual discussion about DB Cooper on a DB Cooper forum? 

Yes, I seen the email of you complaining once again. get the decoded crew together and show the world and for god sake's stop whining about it!!!!!! you have the tools so stop complaining and Just Do It...

It's only 4am your time. you still have a couple hours left. I seen you checked in a couple minutes ago. I'm going to go and discuss DB Cooper. that doesn't happen here..... :)

Edited by mrshutter45

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I didn't catch where you called me a phony. you comments are often reruns from 1976. been there read that. I fail to see one single thing that would get me angry? you are very disconnected with reality Robert. your assumptions prove that. 

Yes, your name is on the suspect page. it's still no concern of yours. it bothers you to no end :) it explains different stories of fabrication over the years. the one's you always fail to prove. I think your little group calls them "white lies" once you prove them. I will remove them. pretty simple. 

You should be working on something for November. you have the edge, the wisdom, the business sense. Cooper country is right out your front door :)  

Decoded awaits?  "If something else happens, please let me know" the decoded team is begging you for something. you have to come through Robert. your public will turn on you soon. word has it they are already upset with you. 3 hot tickets that would bring the public in and all you do is complain. Scott, Buddy and Christine are depending on you. I read the email. you spent all this time hating on Eric while you could of blown him away. you better get busy. November is around the corner. you need to start setting up departments and get the crew all on the same page. might I suggest getting someone on promotions ASAP. seats to fill. prizes to categorize. you keep letting people push you out of the picture. take a corporate stance. Eric got the Kiggins Theatre in Vancouver, all by himself. I'll bet your business savvy can get a football stadium and fill it!!! 

The public is counting on you, Robert....

 

 

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On 7/25/2019 at 1:05 PM, The Cooper Vortex said:

Have you guys heard my latest episode with Bill Rollins? Its a good one!

https://thecoopervortex.podbean.com/e/db-cooper-had-a-grudge-bill-rollins/

Yes, I gave it a listen the other day when I grew tired of listening to Bob Mueller proving himself to be an idiot.

 

It was an entertaining podcast. But I didn't hear anything that makes me think Lakich is a good suspect. 

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(edited)

EU, Eric Ulis falsely claimed Emrich fingered Sheridan, it was Bill Whitney not Sheridan.

It was just Emrich's opinion, but the FBI did look at Whitney in 1971.

 

"Bill Whitney" posted on mountain news.. re: Cossey

https://themountainnewswa.net/2013/04/27/the-hunt-for-db-cooper-earl-cossey-feared-dead-in-woodinville-homicide/

 

whitneya.jpg.75766cf7ae80edafc146c1aa8b9e596b.jpg

 

Edited by FLYJACK

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(edited)

Continental pilot 4 minutes behind 305 reported two important things...

The plane was on V-23... > no alternate flight path.

and

The wind was 160-170 degrees, that is exactly what I have been saying. The FBI wind data was an estimate based on an average between Eugene and Portland and over an hour timeframe...  A 160-170 degree wind would put the Placard exactly where it was found if 305 was on the FBI path.. (if the Placard even came from 305)

 

The plane was flying at 166 degrees straight into the wind.

 

The takeaway is Cooper may have landed slightly West of the flight path.

 

EDIT: Follow up investigation suggests he may have been just in front of Norjak.

flightfollow305a.jpeg.d7b428ab6b7f4bd745abc3e91dcb55c3.jpeg

 

flightfollow305b.jpeg.f8fc777de274eed65c63aab3bee444f6.jpeg

Edited by FLYJACK

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The problem here is nobody gave anything close to these speeds. if he calculated. it's in error. 80 knots would be severe at 14,000. small craft warnings would be in effect and warnings of severe winds aloft. this would be hurricane conditions. all aircraft tune in to weather frequencies that give them specific details on weather on the ground and aloft. 

 

From the aircraft, we can not directly measure the wind speed, but must compute the wind speed from the ground speed and airspeed. Wind speed is the vector difference between the airspeed and the ground speed. ... If the measured airspeed is greater than the observed ground speed, the wind speed is positive.

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(edited)
1 hour ago, mrshutter45 said:

The problem here is nobody gave anything close to these speeds. if he calculated. it's in error. 80 knots would be severe at 14,000. small craft warnings would be in effect and warnings of severe winds aloft. this would be hurricane conditions. all aircraft tune in to weather frequencies that give them specific details on weather on the ground and aloft. 

 

From the aircraft, we can not directly measure the wind speed, but must compute the wind speed from the ground speed and airspeed. Wind speed is the vector difference between the airspeed and the ground speed. ... If the measured airspeed is greater than the observed ground speed, the wind speed is positive.

The wind direction is the take away, at all elevations and estimated speeds.

BTW,,, I have always wondered how that would effect the flight timing and location/jump time.. if the winds were about 160-170 degrees..

Parachute drift would be back along flight path/slightly west..

 

That would put the LZ mostly outside the initial search area.. the orange zone would be spun to about 11 o'clock.

 

20381a.jpg.88b2c08698a707e6600cbb4fb272610b.jpg

Edited by FLYJACK

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(edited)
2 hours ago, RobertMBlevins said:

Seeing this debate, I decided to call in some experts of my own. 

The question below was sent by me to members of Quora, the question and answer website. The question was posed to thirty-five members who have listed their credentials at Quora in the following categories:

1) Former or retired commercial airline pilots.
2) Former or retired military pilots. 
3) Two retired test pilots.
4) One member of the FAA with an instrument rating license.
5) Former test pilot with Boeing aircraft. 

As I said, the question was sent to a total of 35 Quora members who fit one of the criteria listed above, according to their Quora profiles. Some of them will probably provide answers to the question. 

The question is established by Quora as an article, and then answers from the people who chose to answer the question are listed below it. I will link the article to their answers as they come in. This will probably take a day or two before the answers start appearing. 

EDIT:  Well, that didn't take long. One answer came in within a couple of minutes. I made a comment to it hinting that I was looking more for possible effects on the aircraft, rather than just using more fuel and taking longer to reach their destination. But then I am not a pilot. Two people have answered and neither of them mentioned heavy or dangerous effects on the aircraft. 

If you want to keep track as answers come in, the link to the Quora Question is HERE. I would like to put in a plug for Quora as well. If you have a question about something, and you want REAL experts to chip in their answers, sometimes with pictures where they go into detail for you...Quora is certainly the place to ask. People who answer questions at Quora anonymously, unless they are 'confessions' or something, usually get their answers collapsed and deleted due to Quora's 'real identity' policy. Other members also downvote such answers. 

Although there are a few 'anonymous' users at Quora, the large majority of members use established identities and give their professional or other credentials. These credentials appear below their names when they answer a question, making Quora an extremely legitimate site for Q and A. 

Let's face it, getting an answer from an expert in one field or another (with real names and credentials) is preferable to having your question answered by someone who uses the name 'CatLover 21' for example. B| (Unless it's a cat question I guess)

EDIT: Answers are rolling in...I had to provide my own 'answer' just to explain why the question was being asked. I think five answers already are posted in less than an hour. My personal, non-pilot, non-expert opinion is that if headwinds were actually running anything even close to 80 knots, Flight 305...already running in a 'dirty' configuration...would have stalled right out of the sky. 

80 knots was at 14,000 ft not 10,000 ft... He estimated 65 knots at 10,000 ft.. 35 knots surface.

However, the estimated wind speed is not the point.. the wind direction is far more significant. The nearby data indicates the wind was shifting from SSE to SSW around 8 PM... that is consistent with 160 to 170 degree wind. Since, the FBI admits the wind direction was an estimate.. if the winds were 160-170 degrees they got LZ and initial search area wrong. 

Edited by FLYJACK

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7 hours ago, RobertMBlevins said:

'80 knots was at 14,000 ft not 10,000 ft... He estimated 65 knots at 10,000 ft.. 35 knots surface.

All were wrong....where is the aviation weather data? that's what you need. ground conditions are different than weather aloft. you don't look for dirt bike trails on a road atlas..

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35 minutes ago, mrshutter45 said:

All were wrong....where is the aviation weather data? that's what you need. ground conditions are different than weather aloft. you don't look for dirt bike trails on a road atlas..

That is the problem,, there is no wind data for the "LZ" location at exactly 8:09-8:13... the wind data the FBI used to estimate was from far away and AVERAGED over an hour time period. Winds can vary within miles or minutes..

The FBI wind has always been treated as a fact.. it isn't. It is just an estimate, a weak one.

All available data showed wind direction consistent at all levels but increasing speeds at altitude and shifting from SSE to SSW.. close to 8 PM.

Fact is, the wind data the FBI used was an estimate based on Portland and Salem, they admit that in the files. 60-110 miles away?? That is ridiculous.  The wind in Seattle was SSE.. Toledo S..

If that FBI estimate was wrong and the wind was actually 160-170 degrees at jump time/location, they got the parachute drift direction wrong and initially searched the wrong area.

With 160-170 degree winds the LZ "cone" would be back along the flight path and slightly west. 

 

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58 minutes ago, RobertMBlevins said:

Well, you probably aren't going to get that kind of data from back in 1971. Main point was that if ground winds were negligible at the time of Cooper's jump, it's doubtful they were blowing 70 MPH at 10,000 feet. In any case, that would be one heck of a headwind for a jet already flying at close to stall speed. 

And I still would like to know if Bruce Smith needs that gas money. I need a camera person on the 16th, and I'm willing to fix him up in exchange for services. Easier job and much more fun than mowing lawns, for example. B|

A headwind helps keep a plane up....

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Georger fails to recognize that his own statements are in conflict,,, Other evidence is consistent.

It is really irrelevant and the nature of the "sleuthing" process...

Ammerman was clearly ARTCC.

 

The real take away is that a team was watching and directing the chase planes from Seattle Center and an alternate flight path is implausible unless there was a massive conspiracy and coverup which knowingly caused all the resources to search the wrong area.

 

The alternate flight path is beyond DEAD. It is a joke.

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(edited)

RE: Walter Reca.. flight path obviously makes this theory nonsense.

 

But, I found something else interesting..

In an August 2008 FBI agent Larry Carr gave an interview with Steve Rinehart of K-Talk Salt Lake City. A caller named "Carl" called in and asked some interesting questions.

That caller Carl sounds exactly like Carl Lauren, video below.
 

 

 

Carl's evidence for Reca was audio tapes with Reca in 2008/2009 exactly when he was "researching" the case. Note the questions?? Carl is formulating a narrative.. if he had been discussing RECA as Cooper for many years, why did he get so much wrong in 2008, because RECA was not Cooper and Carl was shaping the narrative in 2008.

 

@ 22:25 voice in audio, transcript below

http://www.washingtonhistory.org/collections/item.aspx?irn=121232&record=40
 

SR: We have some callers. I want to continue asking you questions of my own, but let’s try to fit a couple of them in here, as we go.

LC: Sure.
SR: We got Carl on the Salt Lake county line. Carl, you’re on the air with Agent Carr.

Carl: Yeah, hi. The FBI put on the newspapers the composite drawings. Now, are these pretty accurate in terms of the people who actually came in contact with the hijacker?

LC: Yeah, you know everyone that came in contact with that gentleman in the interview with a sketch artist. They went about their process, developing all of the parameters of the individual’s face. They went back and constructed these sketches and then they were sent back out to the field. Each person looked them over. The three stewardesses involved

looked them over, and there were some changes made to the original one. Once the stewardesses gave the thumbs up that this is the best representation, and that’s what was put out to the public.

Carl: Okay, and then these thousands of suspects you developed, did they fit the basic description then?

LC: Well, you know, a lot of them were ruled out basically on the physical descriptors of who D.B. Cooper was. Not necessarily the sketch, but basically the physical parameters; the dark complexion, or the olive skin complexion. Well, if your suspect’s fair skinned, and even if they weren’t solely ruled out on that, that’s one tick. Yeah okay, I guess if this person, if they were 5’7, as opposed to what was reported as 5’10 to 6’1, there’s another tick, that hey maybe this isn’t the right person. If they had blue eyes... Well, we’re pretty sure D.B. Cooper had brown eyes. So, you know, rule that off. Yeah, you know, a lot of the suspects were ruled because they didn’t fit the physical criteria.

Carl: Yeah, I mean, since the FBI, they have this belief that the man may’ve been killed in the jump or when he hit the ground. Did the FBI conduct a search among the missing person reports?

LC: Well you look at the databases back then, you know, long before the time of the computer, it was easier to connect the dots as far as missing persons go. So there was, of course, an effort at the missing persons database, but it just simply didn’t really exist back in that point of time. You know, it would’ve individual sheriff departments that would’ve collected the data, and someone had to do that. I couldn’t even guess how many sheriff’s departments there are in the United States, but I would imagine is was well into the thousands.

Carl: Yeah, you know, is it possible when the hijacker got on the plane he would’ve changed his appearance? Like wearing a wig or maybe wearing these thick soled shoes so, you know, it’d make it appear that he might be taller, or maybe colored his hair a different color. Is that at all possible?

LC: All that is possible, but when you look at how much time, especially Tina Mucklow, spent, the hijacker, shoulder-to-shoulder with him... You know, you can try these experiments yourself. Go ahead and put some makeup on your skin, if you’re fair skinned, and put enough on to swarthy, and then have someone sit next to you. You’re going to see that makeup, it’s going to be pancaked on to you. Same thing with a wig, it looked very unnatural, especially during 1971. So if someone’s wearing a wig, it’s going to be very noticeable.

Carl: What seat was he sitting in before he, you know, hijacked the plane?

LC: He was sitting in the very back, and I don’t have the file in front of me so...

Carl: Was he sitting next to somebody else with whom he had a conversation?

LC: No, he was sitting all by himself in a row of three. And, you know, ultimately, "Flow Chapner" sat by him originally, and Tina Mucklow the rest of the flight.

Carl: What type of firearm did he have? LC: No firearm.
SR: And a grenade.

LC: No grenade. He had opened up his briefcase and there was either dynamite or road flares in there.

Carl: Yeah, well interesting case. I wish you good luck Agent Carr.

SR: Carl, thanks for the call. We appreciate it.

Carl: Yeah, thank you. Goodbye.

Edited by FLYJACK

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16 hours ago, RobertMBlevins said:

Although there are a few 'anonymous' users at Quora, the large majority of members use established identities and give their professional or other credentials. These credentials appear below their names when they answer a question, making Quora an extremely legitimate site for Q and A. 

Let's face it, getting an answer from an expert in one field or another (with real names and credentials) is preferable to having your question answered by someone who uses the name 'CatLover 21' for example. B| (Unless it's a cat question I guess)

I can certainly see this point. And if someone is hiding behind anonymity and obviously trolling, then they can certainly be discounted. But the other side of the argument, and the one I run with is this:

I'm an extremely private person. I don't do facebook, twitter, instagram, or any of that social media stuff. The stuff people put on there, to me, to my life, what I'm up to is nobody's business but who I'm doing it with.  I come on this site because I'm a skydiver. I read this thread because I've always been fascinated with the Cooper case. If I post a thought or an opinion, I'll usually state the reasons why I think it. If someone wants to disagree with me and state the reasons why, I'm all ears (eyes?). Does my name really make a difference? Indeed, if I did state my name, most of you wouldn't know who I am anyway, so what's the difference? I can tell you my experience. I've been jumping for over 40 years, almost 30 of those as an active, rated instructor. I've made thousands upon thousands upon thousands of jumps. Jump pretty much every week, made 16 last weekend, pretty typical for this time of year. I've jumped out of and off of a wide variety of things, into a wide variety of places. So I think I know parachuting fairly well. Again, I'm willing to state and discuss the reasoning behind my opinions, so does the spelling of my name really matter?

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(edited)
20 hours ago, RobertMBlevins said:

My personal, non-pilot, non-expert opinion is that if headwinds were actually running anything even close to 80 knots, Flight 305...already running in a 'dirty' configuration...would have stalled right out of the sky. 

I don't think so.

I'm not a pilot either, but I've got a pretty good grasp of aerodynamics. If the pilots at Quora state differently, I'll stand corrected, but...

You can look up Bernoulli's law or whatever, but the operative issue is airflow over the wings, not ground speed. Take it to a theoretical extreme: If a jetliner will fly at 300, it'll fly. If it were flying into a headwind of 400, then it might have a groundspeed of 100 backwards, but if there's 300 airflow going over the wings, then it's flying.

We fly in turboprops, which are much less powerful than jets. We occasionally get uppers of 50-60 at altitude. It affects the spot and how much time given between groups on exit, but the plane flies just fine.

Edited by dudeman17

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17 hours ago, RobertMBlevins said:

Skydiver '377' says that even if Cooper pulled the ripcord the moment he jumped, estimated drift from 10,000 feet might be no more than a single mile in any direction.

I once had a round reserve zapped on exit. Intricate 4-way exit from a DC-3, my reserve ripcord got snagged by someone else's container, so I ended up under a low-performance round reserve at 12,500'. I don't remember what the winds were, but I landed about a mile, mile and a half away.

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