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DB Cooper

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If we are to believe the memory Flo has some 17 years later. one could believe all the photo's in the past she looked at were not Cooper. she seems very convinced she knows what he looks like, even years later. 

I've always said if they ever really see a picture of him the hair will raise up on the neck and arms...looks similar won't work. 

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46 minutes ago, 812Shadow said:

How would you have executed the jump? Better yet: if someone came to you with the following conditions then how would you reccomend they execute a jump?

Night, freezing cold, rain, wind, drop zone is in mountainous and forested area, speed is over 200 miles per hour, plane is not a typical skydiving plane, you're carrying 200,000 dollars however much that weighs.  

Do you wear a helmet, gloves, goggles? Altimeter? Boots? Flashlight? Jumpsuit?

If DB Cooper was a skydiver then he did a great job of fooling everyone.  The FBI says he was not experienced.  I read that somewhere but can't remember where.

Actually, I have never made a real wilderness jump so I'd be the wrong person to ask. My last "wilderness jump" (defined as way off DZ) was at the World Free Fall Convention about 15 years ago. A DC 3 pilot who didn't know how to use his new GPS put us out miles away from the DZ over a thick haze layer. I ended up landing in a K Mart parking lot. A nice looking woman whose car I landed next to invited me over for dinner. I had to decline as my GF was waiting back at the DZ. 

The only useful advice I could give to a jet skyjacker is pull right away to avoid going into a tumbling spin. A military C 9 canopy will easily survive a 200 mph opening that could shred a sport canopy. An immediate opening would make the altimeter and goggles unnecessary. Boots? Good idea but you might get lucky and land OK in street shoes. Same thing with gloves and a helmet. I question the utility of a 1971 vintage incandescent flashlight to illuminate your landing area. 

Cooper's methods didn't rule out a skydiver. In fact, the FBI started looking for Peterson days after the skyjack likely but not certainly based on a tip from DZO Linn Emrick. Next the FBI went to the USPA HQ then in Monterey CA and asked to inspect membership records. Many skydivers I knew reported being contacted by the FBI. They may have just been boasting. I haven't seen any of them referred to in FBI 302s. 

Your statements make it obvious that you are a jumper 812. Tell us who you think Cooper was or if you have no opinion, then tell us what you think his experience was. Jumper? Aircrew? Military? Civilian? 

One thing few dispute, Cooper was an innovative thinker who had extraordinary courage. You'd have to pay me a whole lot more than $200,000 to attempt to do what he did, but I am a wimp. My friend Snowmman offered to do it for a few thousand as I recall. He never makes BS offers. If anyone had put up the bucks and the plane and gear, he'd have done it. 

377

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377 I have no opinion.  Most everyone thinks he was military, World War 2, Korea, or Vietnam.  I agree with that but I really don't know.

Could he have put his equipment on the plane before he boarded, like had someone do it for him or another passenger or flight attendant?  That way he could have been a skydiver and faked everyone out.

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It doesn't really matter if you discuss Kenny or not. I'm basically telling this board my opinion. similar to you speaking about Peterson. claims of holding things back and fairness? isn't that what you accuse the FBI of with the Amboy chute by not telling everything? other people with suspects say they hold things back as well. they never say they can't discuss the suspect though. 

$20 bills dated from the 80's. it's not evidence of anything. anyone could of buried that money. it's a wooded area. lots of people would be around there. even though it was private property. Kenny wouldn't have any need to bury money dated from the 80's. not a sole was looking at or for him. 

I remember Buddy saying Bernie wasn't the accomplice. that kind of destroys the whole thing.

The FBI story makes no sense. why would they close the case because Kenny is dead. they spent a long time working with Marla Cooper. LD is dead. why would they bother with any suspect that was dead? they spent 4 decades looking for him. they want a conclusion just like anyone else. why would they work the Kenny angle alone. did they contact ANY of his family or friends in the past 5 years? instinct, assumptions only? they had Marla Cooper take a polygraph. 

Where did Kenny launder the money he was giving out so quickly after the crime or did he give out $5,000 of the ransom? 

The production company seems to suffer with budget. you have claimed so many things. it's been starting for the last two years, three really. a year ago you claim to speak with them monthly or weekly. why wouldn't you have all the answers? I thought they found a writer a year ago as you stated on The Mountain News? even a year ago the stall was waiting for another production company to come on board. that happened and has  also come and gone. lots of conflicts in this story. that's why questions come your way. it has nothing to do with my opinion. I think a movie would be cool but not much different than all the other shows over the years. it will fade away like the rest. personally, I don't think enough people really care about Cooper. the film would require top notch actors to reel people in. 10-20 million right there alone with just one actor or top role. it must be backing as one of the issues. is this a box office movie or made for TV movie? 

 

 

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12 hours ago, Andrade1812 said:

377--

 

From my own research I found that wearing gloves was actually a contributing factor in a significant number of no-pull skydiving fatalities. 

What was the temperature and windchill? Without gloves he likely would have trouble pulling unless there were big D rings.  Dangerous either way.

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12 hours ago, Andrade1812 said:

377--

 

From my own research I found that wearing gloves was actually a contributing factor in a significant number of no-pull skydiving fatalities. 

Gloves are a mixed bag Marty. When it's so cold you can't feel your bare hands (as it was on my two 24,000 ft jumps), they are almost essential. They do, however, significantly reduce your ability to identify and correctly grasp objects using tackle feedback. On modern gear, it is impossible to see the object that is used to initiate the opening sequence on your main. It is located behind you. Only by feeling around can you locate, grasp and extract it from its elasticized pocket. I've been experimenting with gloves the fingertips cut off and so far so good. You get most of your hand protected from the cold but maintain uncovered fingertips for max sensitivity.

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27 minutes ago, 812Shadow said:

What was the temperature and windchill? Without gloves he likely would have trouble pulling unless there were big D rings.  Dangerous either way.

I don't know those exact numbers 812Shadow, but if Cooper pulled right away after exiting they wouldn't matter. 

The whole idea of the skyjack was so innovative. Cooper had to be a really creative guy, an out-of-the-box thinker. Those who went before him just used the planes to go to Cuba or some other venue that wouldn't extradite. 

What makes you so sure he was military? I think he was too but I can't articulate exactly why. 

Peterson said on the History Channel interview that he could have done the Cooper jump successfully.  I agree. He had all the skills needed and the guts as well. His ability, however, didn't come from military training. He was a Marine and did not take jump training in the service. 

I bet against Peterson once. We bet $20 on the outcome of the last presidential election. I felt bad, like I was taking $20 from an old man who didn't see the big picture. I sure don't think that anymore. I paid him with ten two dollar bills. 

377

 

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(edited)
1 hour ago, 377 said:

Gloves are a mixed bag Marty. When it's so cold you can't feel your bare hands (as it was on my two 24,000 ft jumps), they are almost essential. They do, however, significantly reduce your ability to identify and correctly grasp objects using tackle feedback. On modern gear, it is impossible to see the object that is used to initiate the opening sequence on your main. It is located behind you. Only by feeling around can you locate, grasp and extract it from its elasticized pocket. I've been experimenting with gloves the fingertips cut off and so far so good. You get most of your hand protected from the cold but maintain uncovered fingertips for max sensitivity.

I looked at 106 incidents on the skydiving fatalities database that were labelled as "No Pulls", of these 17 were mals with the jumper failing to open the reserve in time (including one jumper who pulled his reserve instead of his main and had a mal). A number were inexplicable. Factors I noted in the other deaths were:

#1 demonstration jumps, filmmaking or formation jumps (factor present in 31 incidents),

#2 Age, Health or pre-existing injuries (12 incidents)

#3 Borrowed Equipment (8 incidents)

#4 Suicides (6 incidents, maybe more)

Of the rest, you have four students dying on their first solo jumps, three deaths in Antarctica (which factors do you count there?), three instructors trying to save students, two to five glove related (maybe not that significant?), two substance abusers, and one night jump.

Forty-eight of these jumps are inexplicable: Good weather, experienced and healthy skydivers with no history of depression, working equipment, etc.

Edited by Andrade1812

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Andrade wrote: "Forty-eight of these jumps are inexplicable: Good weather, experienced and healthy skydivers with no history of depression, working equipment, etc."

I am familiar with a number of these inexplicable no pulls Marty and they scare me a bit. What the hell happened? Could it possibly happen to me? In addition to at least one visual altimeter, I wear an audible altimeter and jump with an AAD. Theoretically, that gear should dramatically reduce the chance of me replicating those mystery no pull deaths. 

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6 minutes ago, 377 said:

Andrade wrote: "Forty-eight of these jumps are inexplicable: Good weather, experienced and healthy skydivers with no history of depression, working equipment, etc."

I am familiar with a number of these inexplicable no pulls Marty and they scare me a bit. What the hell happened? Could it possibly happen to me? In addition to at least one visual altimeter, I wear an audible altimeter and jump with an AAD. Theoretically, that gear should dramatically reduce the chance of me replicating those mystery no pull deaths. 

Driving to the airfield is probably a thousand times more dangerous than anything you do at the drop zone. And based on our interactions Mark, you've got to be one of the most safety-conscious skydivers on the planet right now. I hope you enjoy a thousand more perfect drops.

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I've been trying to imagine how Cooper came up with the idea for this bold venture. I sometimes mused about how skydiving could be used to facilitate a crime. I always imagined parachuting as a way to get into a guarded site. My thinking was way too narrow. It literally never occurred to me that you could force authorities to deliver cash to a hijacked plane which would then fly to a remote location where one could jump with the loot and avoid discovery and capture. 

377

Edited by 377

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The temps at 10,000 reported by the pilots were -7 Celcius  which would be 19 degrees F. this was noted in the area just before the Lake Merwin. it's always been mistakenly reported as -7 F. 

McNally had zero skills and jumped going almost a hundred knots faster. he did a free fall count of 30 seconds before pulling. he said he went into a spin with just a movement of his arm. claims his goggles pushed into his eye sockets as soon as he hit the stream. his story is a little wild. he claims he was holding onto the stairs with his body off the stairs and said if an agent would of came into the back, he could of taken a shot at him. then he watched the money separate from him on the way down and thought about releasing the harness and ending it. then while drifting decided he was going to do it again but was soon caught. he also found out the money landed close by to where he was. no training, no military. just read some books and did some recon and off he went. pretty simple. for some reason Cooper needs to be special opts. experience skydiver, master criminal etc. 

Edited by mrshutter45

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1 hour ago, mrshutter45 said:

for some reason Cooper needs to be special opts. experience skydiver, master criminal etc. 

I agree. The "Cooper had knowledge of the 727" lead failed to produce a viable suspect in the last forty years, SP aside, and it appears Cooper got a few things wrong about how the stairs actually operated. In my mind the reasoning was simple (hindsight bias admitted here):

How do you keep the money? Escape with a parachute...

How do you jump from an aircraft? Through a door.

How do you prevent the aircraft from becoming pressurized? Keep the door open

What's the best door to get out of? Those rear stairs found on a few aircraft, including the popular 727.

What did Cooper do? Tried to keep the door open. When forced to close the door for takeoff, what did he do? Work to get the door open ASAP, with the help of a flight attendant. When the stairs didn't go down, what did Cooper do? Tell the pilot to go slower until he could get out. There's just a lot of linear thinking here, nothing more than simple problem solving and maybe some a priori research.

 

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6 hours ago, EJU said:

Daily DB Cooper Bite. I discuss DB Cooper's use of red herrings.

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/DBCooperChannel

 

 

This is a great example of a lack of critical thinking.. 

Cooper demanded to fly "nonstop" aka no stopping in the US, fuel anywhere in Mexico...

Why would Cooper say "nonstop" if he knew the plane didn't have the range and the flight would be rejected and renegotiated. Why not just say Mexico? or pick some place far south. Why say no US stops at all if he wanted to jump outside Seattle?

Simple, he believed it. Cooper wanted to go to Mexico and jump outside the US.

other factors..

Cooper wasn't dressed for a PNW jump..

Cooper was Latin/Swarthy/Mexican in features and appearance.

Cooper asked for money using "US" and "American", that suggests a foreign influence.

Cooper's initial demand according to transcripts was rear stairs lowered in flight. Transcripts are far more reliable than 302's.

 

The speculation that Cooper was so clever he made a (nonstop) demand he knew was unachievable, would be rejected and renegotiated as a ruse is utter nonsense.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by FLYJACK

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(edited)

Have you even spoke with Eric about this. are you just taking the video's off of YouTube for a promotion for yourself basically? 

 

He works more with the media...

https://www.azfamily.com/news/hunt-for-db-cooper-phoenix-man-says-feds-miscalculated-landing/article_48b539e0-9a12-11e9-9704-63997938de94.html

Edited by mrshutter45

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(edited)

I might like the escape from Alcatraz case more than Cooper. I doubt I would pay $50 bucks to someone who isn't really associated with the park. besides the fee's were removed...never heard the turnout.. 

Why haven't you become a partner on YouTube? 

Edited by mrshutter45

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My point was I wouldn't pay someone who wasn't a real business or associated with the subject be it Alcatraz, Hoffa, Cooper etc. someone certified. especially on water. lots of liability. you take that risk promoting your company and camping trips with no liability insurance. 

YouTube partnership should be your major goal. more views, better placement. reaching people is your other goal. you worry about someone else's views when you could triple your own. I don't think they have a limit on video's but again you seem to like promoting video's. you have to keep the interest going. you don't make enough to achieve that goal. basically, it sounds like we need to work on yours as well? 

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Actually, it's harder than I thought becoming a partner...

  • Have at least 1,000 subscribers.
  • Have at least 4,000 hours of watch time within the past 12 months.
  • Channel/content must adhere to the YouTube Partner Program policies, YouTube Terms of Service, YouTube spam policies, and the Community Guidelines.

 

You can do this avenue..

YouTube's partnership program helps users to develop their video-making skills, increase their subscriber count and boost their revenues. However, if you're not a YouTube partner, you are not exempt from the money-making. You can still monetize your videos by using a Google AdSense account, which is free. When your visitors click the ads displayed on your videos, the earnings are deposited in your AdSense account and paid to you after they reach a given threshold.

Edited by mrshutter45

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It's not becoming a star...it's the public? you should also be putting your video's in 16:9 aspect ratio too. we are discussing view count, right? the second best search engine is YouTube. that's your public you always claim to know...thumbnails are in as well. 5 billion videos watched a day. 

 

Edited by mrshutter45

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Actually, his video's are not doing that bad. he's only been around a couple months and has up to a hundred plus views on some of them. you have a video running for a month with 150 plus views. 44 subscribers is pretty good vs 253 over about 5 years on yours. Eric has been getting news media coverage that will probably help. 

It will be hard to reach big numbers because not everyone will view them all when you post one everyday. I only watch one channel that does daily video's. he travels around the country so it's not the same type of redundancy. seeing Flyjacks responses stops me from viewing them along with not believing a western path and his logic following the path. 

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