FLYJACK 654 #52501 May 5, 2019 14 minutes ago, mrshutter45 said: Cardinal Direction Degree Direction N 348.75 - 11.25 NNE 11.25 - 33.75 NE 33.75 - 56.25 ENE 56.25 - 78.75 E 78.75 - 101.25 ESE 101.25 - 123.75 SE 123.75 - 146.25 SSE 146.25 - 168.75 S 168.75 - 191.25 SSW 191.25 - 213.75 SW 213.75 - 236.25 WSW 236.25 - 258.75 W 258.75 - 281.25 WNW 281.25 - 303.75 NW 303.75 - 326.25 NNW 326.25 - 348.75 I know the direction, you miss the point, the application of the data is crap.. it is a guess, a poor proxy, it is for Portland and Salem, not where the placard was found or Cooper's possible LZ. Even worse, it is an average for an entire hour between 8-9 PM.. If you check Toledo at 8 or 9, Seattle at 8 and even Portland at 7- 8, the wind was ESE to S.. shifting later to SSW.. Does anybody think using wind data 60-100 miles away averaged over an hour has any legitimacy.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mrshutter45 21 #52502 May 5, 2019 The directions was given for those who don't know directions in degree's.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mrshutter45 21 #52503 May 5, 2019 "We cannot discuss the parachute found in the Amboy area. It is evidence in an ongoing case..." Correct, even if it turns out not to be evidence in the case. it's still considered evidence surrounding the case. you fail to understand this for years. If suspect # 27 is eliminated. ask them about him and you will get the same response. it's still part of the case. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FLYJACK 654 #52504 May 5, 2019 9 hours ago, mrshutter45 said: The directions was given for those who don't know directions in degree's.. ok, got it. Sorry. I posted the wind stuff before and nobody seems to grasp how important it is that the FBI estimated winds... The alt flightpath crowd uses it as fact. I found this.. "An Army helicopter was sent to check out “something white’ which turned out to be a piece of plastic, probably left by a logging crew nine miles northwest of the main search area. " https://newspaperarchive.com/argus-nov-28-1971-p-1/ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mrshutter45 21 #52505 May 5, 2019 Yes, this is what I've been telling you. they used another plane to cover sections at a time of the flight path. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FLYJACK 654 #52506 May 5, 2019 5 minutes ago, mrshutter45 said: "We cannot discuss the parachute found in the Amboy area. It is evidence in an ongoing case..." Correct, even if it turns out not to be evidence in the case. it's still considered evidence surrounding the case. you fail to understand this for years. If suspect # 27 is eliminated. ask them about him and you will get the same response. it's still part of the case. speaking of evidence.. I still suspect the FBI mixed up the chutes from Cossey and Hayden with the chute going back to Hayden the one Hayden chute not sent to the plane. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FLYJACK 654 #52507 May 5, 2019 2 minutes ago, mrshutter45 said: Yes, this is what I've been telling you. they used another plane to cover sections at a time of the flight path. I know that... the "helicopter" found a piece of white plastic 9 miles NW of search area on Nov 28... they assumed it was left by a logging crew. Could that have been the plastic access door? They didn't know the placard was missing then.. Further, the tests were planned to include a night flight and the sled test Jan 6. The sled test was done during the day and all the pics were during the day. They allude to the night test as being over the flightpath (see the lights of Portland). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mrshutter45 21 #52508 May 5, 2019 no, the file reads that it's available for day and night flights. I found tons of info surrounding the drop test. you would find similar amounts surrounding any path simulation. it also shows a pattern of delay's from the original time slated for late December. I spent a couple hours collecting the data. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mrshutter45 21 #52509 May 5, 2019 The same time they were slating a date for the drop test. the path was already being searched by helicopters and fixed wing aircraft. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mrshutter45 21 #52510 May 5, 2019 Plane arrives on the 5th. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mrshutter45 21 #52511 May 5, 2019 the 302's are very clear on the drop test. video and stills were taken. numerous pages surrounding the event. a similar amount would be found if a path simulation took place. nothing is in the files what so ever. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mrshutter45 21 #52512 May 5, 2019 somebody put the panel back in the stairwell. it can be seen in the photo above the door. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FLYJACK 654 #52513 May 5, 2019 3 minutes ago, mrshutter45 said: the 302's are very clear on the drop test. video and stills were taken. numerous pages surrounding the event. a similar amount would be found if a path simulation took place. nothing is in the files what so ever. not necessarily, if it was at night.. You confuse the flightpath search for a test with the 727.. different purposes. The FBI doc didn't state available night and day,, "we could do both the day and night time flights on that day" and they discuss in context of the test,, lights of Portland and distinctive lights Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FLYJACK 654 #52514 May 5, 2019 2 minutes ago, mrshutter45 said: somebody put the panel back in the stairwell. it can be seen in the photo above the door. The emergency access panel doesn't go to the top, the main is 2.5x larger so I'd guess it is about 8" x 10" or so. It would be completely hidden behind the main door in that pic. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mrshutter45 21 #52515 May 5, 2019 the photo you showed looks to me as if the panel goes to the ceiling. that's where I noticed the metal strip stopped. I don't see a break in the middle. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FLYJACK 654 #52516 May 5, 2019 (edited) 12 minutes ago, mrshutter45 said: the photo you showed looks to me as if the panel goes to the ceiling. that's where I noticed the metal strip stopped. I don't see a break in the middle. On the right there is a line that stops just above the finger holes.. that should be the top of the access panel.. this pic is a little misleading, if you look at the angles at the top, the main panel and access door are at very different angles.. this plane is not in service.. Edited May 5, 2019 by FLYJACK Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mrshutter45 21 #52517 May 5, 2019 (edited) If it stops just above the holes. no room for a placard? is there another pic to be found.. I didn't see the bottom portion. the placard would not be on that part. it's too small. the placard must of been above the panel or beside it.. Edited May 5, 2019 by mrshutter45 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FLYJACK 654 #52518 May 5, 2019 (edited) 16 minutes ago, mrshutter45 said: If it stops just above the holes. no room for a placard? is there another pic to be found.. I was trying to figure that out, the angle in that image distorts, the placard may fit just under the holes, but the rivet/screws don't make sense to me.. the access door may not be exactly the same for all planes. The Boeing doc stated that the main door is 2.5x larger.. and all information confirms finger pulls. My opinion is that it probably didn't come from that plane, but still trying to sort it out. Real images are tough to find.. diagrams show a decal on the access door, but if that placard doesn't fit on the door it probably didn't come from that plane,, hard to tell though. This is the only other real pic I could find,, appears to be a placard on the emergency access door. Edited May 5, 2019 by FLYJACK Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mrshutter45 21 #52519 May 5, 2019 should look something like this... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FLYJACK 654 #52520 May 5, 2019 (edited) 8 minutes ago, mrshutter45 said: should look something like this... way to big.. proportions are off, descriptive but not accurate Edited May 5, 2019 by FLYJACK Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mrshutter45 21 #52521 May 5, 2019 They should of noticed the hole in the wall if he removed the panel...I think Hominid is right that adhesive held the placards in place. that's why I say it's like a decal. it was very thin plastic. they only use rivets or screws with plates with numbers on them or things they want to try and survive a crash. they originally wanted to test over a lake east of Seattle.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mrshutter45 21 #52522 May 5, 2019 It's hard for me to scale it..I'm on a 100 inch diagonal screen. it's HUGE here. you can see where I added the break for the panel. the panel itself appears to be the same width as the normal control door. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FLYJACK 654 #52523 May 5, 2019 (edited) 4 minutes ago, mrshutter45 said: They should of noticed the hole in the wall if he removed the panel...I think Hominid is right that adhesive held the placards in place. that's why I say it's like a decal. it was very thin plastic. they only use rivets or screws with plates with numbers on them or things they want to try and survive a crash. they originally wanted to test over a lake east of Seattle.. I agree, you'd think it would be an adhesive decal.. the placard found wasn't and it had those rivet/screw holes.. I can't find any "placard" examples like that. Would one of the 727 prototypes have use rivets/screws for the placard? Edited May 5, 2019 by FLYJACK Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mrshutter45 21 #52524 May 5, 2019 The damage could result from Cooper or the jet stream on it's exit..it looks like it was attached but wasn't other than adhesive. they are not riveted on the exterior either.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FLYJACK 654 #52525 May 5, 2019 (edited) 9 minutes ago, mrshutter45 said: The damage could result from Cooper or the jet stream on it's exit..it looks like it was attached but wasn't other than adhesive. they are not riveted on the exterior either.. One possibility is that the placard was stuck on the access door just below the finger holes,, the rivet/screws held the access door to the panel but released when pulled, The placard would be below those. Note that there is no rivet/screw on the top center of the placard. Edited May 5, 2019 by FLYJACK Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
