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DB Cooper

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when you look at the photo I posted. you can see above the normal access door. a hole should be present of Cooper removed the panel..

The placard wouldn't be exposed to much sunlight but I agree it's odd that it remained visible for years. if those are pine tree's they should have pine needles all over the ground. we have lots of pine down here and it does just that..

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12 minutes ago, mrshutter45 said:

they don't need the 727 to retrace the path...you read in the 302's where they were retracing the path looking for a chute. 

They had no reason to doubt the data in 1971 vs today. 

I don't even know what that means..

They knew the plane testing location when they made the statements, they would have ruled it out if the plane wasn't over the flightpath. They didn't.

 

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Just now, mrshutter45 said:

when you look at the photo I posted. you can see above the normal access door. a hole should be present of Cooper removed the panel..

The placard wouldn't be exposed to much sunlight but I agree it's odd that it remained visible for years. if those are pine tree's they should have pine needles all over the ground. we have lots of pine down here and it does just that..

There is another remote possibility, somebody stole it from the plane after NORJAK as a souvenir,, and Hicks made up the find.

 

It is just another unanswered aspect of the VORTEX

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2 hours ago, mrshutter45 said:

I'm saying they had no reason to doubt the data they had in 71. they could of retraced the path with any plane that could fly with the same speed, altitude etc. 

true, but they may have lowered the rear stairs over he flightpath during some test.

 

The FBI statement was months after the placard find after they investigated it. They would have known if the plane didn't fly the flightpath and if they knew that the statement is not likely.

 

They stated it may have come off after the Cooper flight... it is far more likely they made that statement knowing the plane re-flew the flightpath.. it doesn't make sense otherwise.

 

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2 hours ago, mrshutter45 said:

the map wasn't released until years after the placard find. someone would have to have knowledge of the path to pull off any kind prank like this..

The flightpath was easily known by late 1978,, the FBI search locations were known and locals could have easily figured it out. But I think it is a long shot.. the condition of the placard suggests it wasn't in the woods for 7 years.

 

1976...

1976flightpath.thumb.jpg.e60bfc2cbf1e550294d56362f286c537.jpg

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(edited)

I seriously doubt the placard was lose and hung on for days before coming off. nobody noticed a decal hanging on the stairs while dusting for prints? the statement was made 7 years after the fact. many knew, if not all the agents that a test was done. if they didn't read the files they wouldn't know the test was done over the ocean. time passes and history changes with memory. 

Edited by mrshutter45

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4 minutes ago, mrshutter45 said:

I seriously doubt the placard was lose and hung on for days before coming off. nobody noticed a decal hanging on the stairs while dusting for prints? the statement was made 7 years after the fact. many knew, if not all the agents that a test was done. if they didn't read the files they wouldn't know the test was done over the ocean. time passes the history changes with memory. 

Placard doesn't have to be loose for days.. it could have been dislodged during the test or rigging for it. They could have flown the flightpath with airstairs down and then out over the ocean.

I disagree, they investigated the placard for months before that statement was made, they would have known if any tests included the area where it was found. To suggest it might have come off during the test indicates that it was a real possibility, not an off the cuff remark.

 

 

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2 minutes ago, mrshutter45 said:

The map is not scaled correctly. Heisson  is east of the path. it shows the plane several miles even further. then it shows the path too far west around Kalama. appears to be a map made by the reporters..

That map just one quick example, I am sure I could find more,, knowing the flightpath is a non issue, locals knew where the FBI search was.. it would have been easy to figure out the path (v23) or see an unofficial map of it before 1979.. 

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The claim appears to be that it became missing after the testing. that doesn't imply over the same area. they would of noted that. another claim has it missing two days later. no records of two separate tests. no reason to hide the fact either. it never happened.

Report would say something like "the placard was noticed missing during testing over the same area the plane flew on the night of the hijacking" 

-`

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we haven't seen the location. we don't know if the card moved over the years. under the blanket of the tree's I don't see a lot of damage that could occur. was it cleaned up prior to being shown. just like anything else it has variables. it would of been painfully obvious if the plane was known to be in the same exact area with the stairs down allowing it to escape after the hijacking. putting two and two together would be rather simple. 

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(edited)
35 minutes ago, mrshutter45 said:

we haven't seen the location. we don't know if the card moved over the years. under the blanket of the tree's I don't see a lot of damage that could occur. was it cleaned up prior to being shown. just like anything else it has variables. it would of been painfully obvious if the plane was known to be in the same exact area with the stairs down allowing it to escape after the hijacking. putting two and two together would be rather simple. 

"FBI spokesman Kay Mathis in Seattle put a word of caution on the finding of the placard by admitting that it was possible the plastic piece, 8 by 11 inches in size, may have been knocked off after the Cooper flight rather than during it."

All I am saying is that this statement made after they investigated the placard suggests the plane flew over the area.. it doesn't make sense otherwise. They knew where it flew and that would have been the first thing they checked.

Obviously there are many variables and other possibilities.. like most of this case.

Edited by FLYJACK

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I know what she said. she goes on to say it MAY have happened that way. who ever gave her the information might not have all the answers either. the placard appears to be on a file sheet for a binder that is 8 x 11. so how can the placard be the same size? sounds like a lot of misinformation.  

I stick to the logical answer of it being obvious right off the bat that the card came off during testing over the flight path instead of during the crime. no record of this flight has surfaced and the words may and could imply they are not sure. they might of found out later the testing was done over the ocean. 

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(edited)
1 hour ago, mrshutter45 said:

What needs to be done is finding out if 305 had the emergency panel. it appears they did and was still in place. something somewhere needs to be found to verify...

Yes,, also find out if the 727 prototypes, (used in the 63/65 drop test) used rivets/screws for the placard... those may have been unique..

 

In 1963 -1964, The Boeing Company ·had ---·-- --- a team of 20 to 30 and test pilots experimenting with the air stairs of The Boeing 727 to determine the plane’s adaptability for dropping cargo or personnel. In the tests conducted the air stairs were removed and packages were dropped from the plane using an especially designed chute.

 

 

Northwest telephoned on 12/30/71.
He said he had definitely confirmed that pertinent airplane would be available to us all day on 1/6/72 and that we could do both the day time and night time flights on that day. 

 

The night flight suggests they flew the flighpath as well as the sled test.

 

norjakdaynight.jpeg

norjaktestflight.jpeg

Edited by FLYJACK

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(edited)
1 hour ago, mrshutter45 said:

this is interesting...

wind shift.png

yup, I posted that already with even more wind info... Eric just ignores it. 

The winds were an assumption based on Portland and Salem data averaged between 8-9PM, but if you look at winds close to 8PM they were ESE shifting to S then SSW..

 

All the wind data shows the winds from the ESE/SSE to S around 8 PM. In line with the flightpath.. the data also suggests it was the virtually the same same direction at all alt levels but increased at elevation.

The winds were an assumption, a poor one. That spins the LZ .

 

FBI part 20 page 6197-6198

8:00 PM – Toledo, Washington: Measured 3,000 feet overcast, 12 miles visibility, very light rain showers, temperature 42, wind south 5 knots. Rain began 7:35 p.m. 

9:00 PM – Toledo, Washington: 3,000 scattered measured, 3,400 overcast, 12 miles visibility, temperature 42, wind south 6 knots. Rain ended at 8:05 p.m. 

FBI part 22 page 6547

8:00 PM – Sea-Tac. Visibility 7 miles; clouds 700 ‘ft., scattered; estimated, 2,500 ft., overcast. Wind SSE @10 knots with light rain wnich began at 7:12 PM.

 

The following suggests the wind was a “guess” for the LZ

“_______ also stated that to secure average of below
listed information for Woodland, Washington, an average of the
two sets of information would give close estimate of
conditions at Woodland. The information below is for the times
between 8:00 p.m. and 9:00 p.m. on November- 24, 1971”

 

WINDESTIMATE.jpeg

Edited by FLYJACK

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Cardinal Direction Degree Direction
pix.gif pix.gif

N

348.75 - 11.25

NNE

11.25 - 33.75

NE

33.75 - 56.25

ENE

56.25 - 78.75

E

78.75 - 101.25

ESE

101.25 - 123.75

SE

123.75 - 146.25

SSE

146.25 - 168.75

S

168.75 - 191.25

SSW

191.25 - 213.75

SW

213.75 - 236.25

WSW

236.25 - 258.75

W

258.75 - 281.25

WNW

281.25 - 303.75

NW

303.75 - 326.25

NNW

326.25 - 348.75

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