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DB Cooper

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19 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

The bills were Micro'd on a Recordak machine well before Norjak. The Bank had an emergency stash of circulated bills, total $250,000 with $20,000 in $10's and $230,000 in $20's. The entire stash was recorded in order. The FBI had nothing to do with recording the serial numbers. The Bank was responsible for maintaining the integrity of the Micro matching the money. 

They grabbed $200,000 for Cooper and left the rest but this is where it gets screwy, typical NORJAK. The bank took the remaining $30,000 of $20 bills which was 15 packets of 100. They wrote down only the top and bottom bill serial number for each packet and sent the 15 pairs of numbers to the FBI as well as the Micro list of all the bills. The FBI was instructed to use the paired numbers as start and stop points, remove them from the list and all bills in between which they didn't actually have numbers for. They ignored the 10's. 

The 15 packets of $20's that didn't go to Cooper but were on the list were immediately incorporated into a new Bank ransom stash which was also run through a Recordak...  everybody following so far..  The FBI was having trouble deducting the bills and creating the list so they asked the Bank for a list of all the remaining bill serial numbers from those 15 packets. The Bank supplied the FBI with the Recordak Micro for the new ransom stash noting the ranges for the 15 packets. Now the FBI had to deduct each bill found from the original list. However, the range for the list was slightly different, the packets didn't quite match, that may be where the 9998 bills comes from, two bills short. There is an error.

There were two Bank ransom stashes, two  sets  of Recordak Micro's and entire thing was under the control of the Bank. If the Bank didn't maintain the integrity of the ransom stash then the FBI bill list would be wrong.

 

Consider the ramifications if money was used/replaced from the ransom stash and the Micro wasn't updated. It is very unlikely but theoretically possible that the TBAR money didn't go to Cooper but was used in another ransom payout if the Bank didn't maintain the Recordak Micro. I did find an earlier Portland ransom payout that was never recovered. A little OT but interesting, a guy phoned in a bomb on a plane that would go off if it descended to a specific altitude. He would let them know how to disarm if paid, he effectively hijacked a plane without being on it. He was caught in Portland but the ransom money was never recovered.

 

 

 

 

secondransomfunda.jpg

If that money was not DB Cooper's, then it throws off a lot of other theories.  So none of the money ever went into circulation?  Were you able to determine where the dredge started?

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1 hour ago, JJG78 said:

...So none of the money ever went into circulation?  

Nobody knows. 

This question was addressed to a certain degree when Agent Carr was posting.

Banks in the Pacific Northwest had the numbers. 

But actually checking the numbers against bills in circulation wasn't practical. The idea was that if there was a big deposit of $20s, they would check.  But as far as individuals or stores or that sort of thing, those weren't checked.

And the numbers of bills being destroyed by the US Treasury weren't checked. 

So the idea of Cooper or someone passing the bills a few at a time, or bigger amounts in places other than the PNW is not only possible, but plausible.
The bills could have gone into circulation, mixed in with the currency already there, been worn out and subsequently destroyed in the Treasury incinerators. 

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5 hours ago, RobertMBlevins said:

Norman, I'm not sure what the deal is here, but it looks like both you and Derek are obviously the same person. Not sure why you feel the need to do this. Hopefully it wasn't because Derek was suspended or something. I will assume you had a different reason, but if not...some websites do not take kindly to that. 

He was warned, I think he got banned.

So he came back as someone else. But kept doing the same crap. 

 

The moderators on here aren't stupid.
And they don't like it when people disregard the rules.
It's not the first time this sort of thing has happened, and if he keeps it up there are more drastic steps they can take. 
However, in the end, he can keep registering and making a post or two before he gets re-banned and the posts disappear.

Given that all he was doing was spamming the forum with his pics and baseless claims...

No great loss.

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6 hours ago, wolfriverjoe said:

He was warned, I think he got banned.

So he came back as someone else. But kept doing the same crap. 

 

The moderators on here aren't stupid.
And they don't like it when people disregard the rules.
It's not the first time this sort of thing has happened, and if he keeps it up there are more drastic steps they can take. 
However, in the end, he can keep registering and making a post or two before he gets re-banned and the posts disappear.

Given that all he was doing was spamming the forum with his pics and baseless claims...

No great loss.

He's using either a proxy server or a VPN that will hide his actual IP address making it hard to stop him unless you have approval only membership. he tried it several times on my forum..

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A few thoughts...

First, regarding the idea of deploying the parachute while still standing on the stairs, I have to second everything wolfriverjoe said about that. Plus, deploying off the stairs into the fast turbulent air behind the aircraft would actually increase the chances of a malfunction, as well as the possibility of the parachute entangling with part of the aircraft. Would not be practical at all. And if Cooper was an experienced jumper, knew enough to find a pack and data card, he should be able to give the rig a gear check enough to reasonably ensure that he wouldn't have a total pack closure malfunction. As for the gutsiness of making a one-parachute jump without a reserve, again, as joe said, malfunctions are actually pretty rare, plus the fact that it was a bailout rig and not a sport main means that that parachute basically WAS a reserve. And Cooper probably knew that by the lack of D-rings for a front-mount reserve, and the fact that it had a pack and data card at all - sport mains do not have them. Also, base jumping is pretty much always a one-parachute jump, and not with rigger-packed reserves.

I was intrigued by the mention of that book 'Hahaha', supposedly written by Cooper, and its account that Cooper did not jump over the Washington woods, but closer to Reno. Here's why: For background, as older jumpers will know, an integral era of sport skydiving history occurred in the 60's and 70's at a few drop zones in California; Taft and Arvin near the Bakersfield area of central CA, and Elsinore in SoCal. Bunch of barnstorming, daredevil, black death artists pioneered skydiving from a solo sport to a group activity known as relative work. Many of these people were Vietnam veterans from the 60's and other military. Anyway, some years ago, probably late 90's, I was jumping regularly at a drop zone in Taft. For a while, this guy would show up and hang out with us who was an older jumper and part of that era. He had written a book, his attempt at the not so great American novel. The book was basically a love story, and the main characters and plot line were fiction, but it was set in the real world of that skydiving era, and included many real-life people and events. Well, in the second half of the book as a secondary plot line, one of his characters pulled off the hijacking. Never mentioned the Cooper name or that it was national news, but the places and sequence of events were exactly the Cooper case. Except that he, too, had the hijacker jump on the approach to Reno. Somebody here mentioned someone witnessing Cooper back down the stairs, but I always thought the story was that the only people on board were the pilots and the one stewardess, but that after takeoff Cooper sent her up with the pilots so that there was nobody in the back with him. In this guy's book, the hijacker went to the back stairs and jumped up and down once, to give the pilots the idea that he left over Washington, but actually stayed on board until the Reno approach. Did this guy know something? Was he just writing pseudo-fiction? (Was he Cooper?) Who knows.

As for suspects...  There are a number of people who think they have the case solved. That Derek clown insists it was Klansnic. Jo was convinced it was her late husband. Blevins likes Kenny C. There was an ad in Parachutist magazine the other month for a book claiming Walt Reca was the definitive Cooper. But the FBI has closed the case as unsolved. Does that mean that they have evidence that disproves all of those, or do they just not have enough to beyond-a-reasonable-doubt any of them? I've heard that there were anywhere from a couple hundred to possibly over a thousand people who were at one time or another considered possible suspects. I'd be curious to see that list. I've also heard that the FBI holds out hope that someone will remember something, present a new suspect or evidence. Some people have done that, come forward saying 'I think it was my uncle/dad's friend/husband...' That leads me to wonder. If you thought someone you knew/cared about might be a notorious criminal, would you come forward? Risk getting someone in trouble? Or would you keep your mouth shut? I suppose if they've passed and are beyond prosecution you might want to know if the truth could be determined. But would you want to sully their name? Perhaps you'd be lionizing them as a folk hero?  Hmmm.....

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5 hours ago, mrshutter45 said:

He's using either a proxy server or a VPN that will hide his actual IP address making it hard to stop him unless you have approval only membership. he tried it several times on my forum..

Well, my understanding is that the mods will ban him and subsequent sockpuppets for a while before they go for a full IP addy ban. 
And yes, he can spoof that with a few different tricks. 

There was a fella on here who had a serious bug up his ass about posting on here. Last count I heard had him well over 500 sock puppets created & banned.

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Cooper wasn't seen jumping... It was Hahneman that a crew member witnessed descend the rear stairs backwards and jump off back first. He hijacked a 727 for ransom in May of 1972. I have been researching him for the Cooper hijacking. Mark was speculating that Cooper may have done it the same way.

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Oh yeah. I forgot all about the 'squidding' idea. One of the dynamics of round openings that is being lost to time (at least for sport jumpers) because we don't jump them anymore. 

 

I don't know about the 'short straw' thing. I'd guess that they aren't publicizing the agent who's on the case to keep them from being inundated by all the weirdos. Jo's attacks on Carr are a lesson that likely won't be forgotten soon.

Carr was doing it for fun. 

His specialty was bank robberies. 

He freely admitted that he was interested in the Cooper case as a personal thing, was doing it on his own time as a 'nights & weekends' thing, but also admitted that if he was to solve it, then it would be a hell of a 'feather in his cap'. 

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12 hours ago, dudeman17 said:

..

I was intrigued by the mention of that book 'Hahaha', supposedly written by Cooper, and its account that Cooper did not jump over the Washington woods, but closer to Reno. Here's why: For background, as older jumpers will know, an integral era of sport skydiving history occurred in the 60's and 70's at a few drop zones in California; Taft and Arvin near the Bakersfield area of central CA, and Elsinore in SoCal. Bunch of barnstorming, daredevil, black death artists pioneered skydiving from a solo sport to a group activity known as relative work. Many of these people were Vietnam veterans from the 60's and other military. Anyway, some years ago, probably late 90's, I was jumping regularly at a drop zone in Taft. For a while, this guy would show up and hang out with us who was an older jumper and part of that era. He had written a book, his attempt at the not so great American novel. The book was basically a love story, and the main characters and plot line were fiction, but it was set in the real world of that skydiving era, and included many real-life people and events. Well, in the second half of the book as a secondary plot line, one of his characters pulled off the hijacking. Never mentioned the Cooper name or that it was national news, but the places and sequence of events were exactly the Cooper case. Except that he, too, had the hijacker jump on the approach to Reno....

Do you know the name of that book?

Also in regards to Bob saying Ha Ha Ha is a work of fiction, I think it should still be on the table as possibly written by Cooper unless you can prove otherwise.  Some of the most delicate scientific work requires operating with uncertainty.  He also mentioned in Ha Ha Ha how he planted the money there just to confuse the FBI about the jump location, which makes a lot of sense, true or not. 

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6 hours ago, 4lcy0ne said:

Do you know the name of that book?

 

 

I've wracked my brain and I can't remember the name of the guy or the book. Maybe I can ask a couple of the people I hung out with in those days if they remember, but it's been a while since I've talked to them, and I'm a dinosaur, I don't do facebook or any of that crap, so it might take a bit of digging to find contact for them.

A quick search indicates that 'Ha Ha Ha' was written in '83. Like I said, I read that book in probably the late 90's, but I couldn't say when it was written. Mr. Blevins says he read Ha Ha Ha and thought that it wasn't the author's first work. I'd be curious if they were possibly written by the same guy. I'd also be curious if you or Mr. Blevins figured the seven clues supposedly contained in Ha Ha Ha.

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17 minutes ago, mrshutter45 said:

Why is my name attached to the post above. I've never made that statement. is this a quote from Derek? 

Yeah, Derek made another ID and posted something stupid. Not sure how your name was attached. His post apparently got deleted, did what I could to delete mine.

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3 hours ago, dudeman17 said:

A quick search indicates that 'Ha Ha Ha' was written in '83. Like I said, I read that book in probably the late 90's, but I couldn't say when it was written. Mr. Blevins says he read Ha Ha Ha and thought that it wasn't the author's first work. I'd be curious if they were possibly written by the same guy. I'd also be curious if you or Mr. Blevins figured the seven clues supposedly contained in Ha Ha Ha.

My suspect was a self proclaimed writer.  He published his autobiography in 1972, but nothing else.  He was known to use alias names, and I suspect he has other works done under pseudonyms.  He was also locked up in the early 80's so had some time on his hands to do some writing.  

I have an interesting theory on the 7 clues, and I hope anyone interested in the subject takes me seriously.  Cooper was also the Zodiac killer, and if he really wrote Ha Ha Ha and encoded a location to find some money, I would send in the bomb squad before searching it alone, because it is probably a death trap.

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(edited)

I found that the wind direction used by the FBI LZ was a proxy derived from Portland and Salem data averaged between 8-9 PM. 

The winds were virtually the same direction from surface to elevation but increased in speed. However, the data from Portland and Seattle shows that the direction was not constant, it was shifting between ESE to S to SSW... In other words the FBI guessed at the wind direction for the LZ.

The Placard was found virtually right under the flightpath, that suggests a wind from the S which is consistent with winds measured at 8 PM at Toledo Wa... The Placard found much later suggests the FBI got the wind direction wrong.

 

A question..  If Cooper jumped back first facing into a S wind of 25 knots at elevation and 5 knots at ground how far would he drift from the exit point?? I assume he would travel forward briefly then drift back basically along the flightpath.. any ideas?

 

 

cooperwindtravel.jpeg.f02055ce3a01873fe04ce18d80ebc9d1.jpeg

 

cooperwindwrong.jpeg.01e9e6002533dd6b32fcbf472a67d81b.jpeg

 

Edited by FLYJACK

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Sheridan Peterson was never dismissed by the FBI. He has continued to be a suspect since within one week of the skyjacking.

It's important to note that the only agents from the FBI to interview Sheridan were Mary Jean Fryar and her junior partner. In fact, Mary Jean interviewed him twice in 2003 and wrote the 302 related to Sheridan's interviews with them. Put another way, she is the eyes and ears of the FBI as it relates to Sheridan. Everything the FBI knows or thinks about Sheridan as a suspect comes from her, plus the results of the DNA comparison.

I have talked with Mary Jean several times and I can say with certainty she is not at all convinced that Sheridan was not DB Cooper. In fact, she is highly suspicious of Sheridan. Moreover, Sheridan himself stated that Mary Jean told him that they think he is DB Cooper when they approached him in 2003.

That said, meeting a certain legal threshold and proving Sheridan was DB Cooper is an entirely separate matter.

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There was CP TI on the 727.. water system, lav and ducting. It is possible some of those particles were picked up on the plane. 

The Elvis Yttrium TV analogy is silly, there was no glass shards on the tie.. finding Yttrium on a tie is rare, especially in the context of all the other particles.

Virtually all those particles are used in dentistry and electronics. They suggest ceramics or coatings.. missiles and radomes. (Many are found in hand held sparkler paste)

The tie was at least 6 years old. Probably left by Cooper and was likely exposed to multiple environments.

DNA can exclude but not include. Nuclear DNA can ID a person, Mitochondrial can narrow it down to 10-20% of population. Anyone matching the Cooper tie DNA is still in a population too large.. to matter.  However, new DNA tech could probably get a better sample from the tie or parachute cords.

 

None of the tie evidence points to Boeing. 

 

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I am in my 51st year of skydiving, still active. Jumped at many CA DZs including Taft,  Elsinore, Livermore, Antioch, Tracy, Pope Valley,  Byron etc. Quincy and Rantoul IL too.  So many good memories. I too had heard a rumor that DB Cooper  jumped at Taft but no details at all. 

 

377

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(edited)

WolfRiverJoe wrote: "Oh yeah. I forgot all about the 'squidding' idea. One of the dynamics of round openings that is being lost to time (at least for sport jumpers) because we don't jump them anymore."

Initially, I also thought that an immediate deployment off the off the stairs of the 727 at roughly 200 mph could prove fatal. Some early head down skydivers suffered fatal coronary artery dissections from huge G forces generated by accidental canopy openings at speeds well above terminal velocity. 

When I was searching for info on 727 jumps in SE Asia I connected with Dr. Joe Leker at U of Texas who is an expert on the history of covert air ops in SE Asia. He sent me a video of 727 S/L jumps which is now on YouTube included in an Air Americal documentary you can see here: (start at 1:07:56).

I was quite surprised to see how gentle the deployments were. The "squidding" unique to round canopies, provided a very slow opening. 

377

Edited by 377

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