47 47
quade

DB Cooper

Recommended Posts

Quote

"...There are too many witnesses in that family now claiming that Bernie and Kenny were gone for a week over that Thanksgiving. So where did they go, what were they doing..."




Maybe they were, um, partying with Jumping Jack Cash, you know that Jack Collins guy and his Northwest 727 captain brother, Brad Collins' Uncle Buddy.

Or Wolfie? Nobody knows where he was on T-Day, '71, either. Or Richard McCoy - he was missin', too, except that Russ and Bernie found him Las Vegas, but Seattle says "nah"...

Barb missed the turkey, too.

Not sure on Duane, but I'm sure Jo can fix that gap in a jiffy.

Braden? I dunno.

LD - well, he made it to Momma's on Friday, but a bit banged up and squished in Dewey's UK sports car.

Burnworth? He was in Germany with the girls.

Lots of guys not at the T-Day dinner table, if you know what I mean....

Hey, BK, where were you? Watching football on TV? Whose TV? Whadda the crew do after the mission was over?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Was Sheridan cooking a turkey in Nepal? If the FBI belived his mud hut alibi they wouldnt have come back requesting a DNA swab.

377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
thousandthings


It may be Commerce but then how is it any different from Bruce knocking on Mucklow and family's door and then writing nasty public articles about them?



Gray KNEW better than to speak badly of me - he like another person who spent some time in my home - knows I have a lot of things never discussed....and I do not mean Sluggo.

I have NOT contrived the story I have told & anyone who meets me or knows me knows I can tease (only in the written word), but actually cannot tell a lie....face to face. I read like an open book! Gray was at least courteous regarding my character...he made me sound like a prude - but, I know why he did that. I did not agree with some of the things he said about me - but, I read the book one time & that was it. I marked things as I read it in the event I had to discuss these things in the future.

I LIKED the way he ended his book - he had NO choice, but to crawl into the hole with me. It was not his intended ending.

He actually thought he could solve the case & earnestly put money & time into it...but all he did was run into rabbit holes that went NO WHERE. He just ended up running down one rabbit holes to so he ended the story in the hole with the Tomatoe cans....That ending was very appropriate.

As for the man who supposedly contacted Grey on the end - I think that was PURE fiction, but I didn't care...if there was a thread of truth in his ending about the contact - then that just buys into a conspiracy story and leaves it open for ANOTHER book someday in the future when there is NO one to counter what he writes.

There was NO russett sweater - but I do not know who first introduced a russett sweater other than a witness who claims he saw Cooper walking near the logging roads & contacted the FBI in 1971. That is a proven contact on my part and he claims the FBI never acknowledged it. His wife and other family members said it was true and that they all contacted the FBI about this...but outside of their accounting and what I told about their accounting I have no knowledge if the FBI really did contact them....I believe them because we have had a continued relationship since 2001.

They both lived under the original proposed flight path as did others I interviewed...but, I do not sell my story - it is here only so that I have a voice & hopefully someday someone will realized what I have spent my life trying to tell. The story Duane told me is the only story that has ever made sense of the ground sitings and reports - but, I didn't know that for a long long time...I just repeated the stories I had been told.

Most were perfect stranger when Margie Boule did her story.....the one contact I should have followed but neighter if NOR Margie thought it was solid....It was actually the most solid lead I had - but now he is deceased - died in 2004.
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Why I believe GEORGER knows things & hides things. He very briefly put up an obit on this man - & took it down. He didn't know I knew this was the man Duane had spoke of - his name was an Indian name - the first name being Joaquim....not sure I spelled it right.

ODD do you not think that Georger (JW) of all people knew who I was looking for & the man who attempted to contact me in 2001 thru Margie....

Later a wonderful man htis person contacted tried to help him get his story told & went to Himmelsbach on his behalf & attempted to get something done where he could not be prosecuted for coming forward with what he knew....the legal papers they filed actually exist.

Himmelsbach would not talk about this but verified the story was true.

Well, this story some of you know. The State of WA said they could not grant the man immunity & he would have to file with the USA government in WA. He just let it go - he knew he had cancer when he attempted to contact me in 2001....

A well, know sky jumper from the N.E. also knows this story as he was the one contacted by this man & the man did what he could....as he had done for me.

Writers like Bruce, Gray, Blevins & all of the othersnever made the grade regarding the depth of this story....I did because it was personal & not just a story to be told.
I was married for 17 yrs to a man who confessed to the crime and had the knowledge and reasons - the things he tried so desperately to relate to me.

Damn Dumb Bunny!
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
smokin99



I never got the idea that Gray's book was just about Kenny per se. He was just one of the several that he hit on and there's only so much space. Frankly, the general consensus seems to be that Geoff lost his cooper jones towards the end anyway.....I wouldn't let it bug me forever.



That was FUNNY! At least I can sign off with a laugh! Got a busy day tomorrow.

By the way - "Cooper Jones" - I like that one! For personal reasons it was good chuckle for me.
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
RobertMBlevins

Here's another opinion. I have forgiven Skipp Porteous, but it's going to bug me from now until forever that he cut Geoff Gray out of the loop during the most critical time of the investigation into Christiansen. I will never forget getting Gray's book from Amazon on the day of release.

I read it pretty much through in a single day. And I knew by the first twenty pages that something was wrong. Where was any mention of the Geestmans', or Dawn Androsko, or Helen Jones? Porteous told me he was updating Gray on our investigation. I remember thinking 'WTF' is going on?



Hmm now I get your point.

Just piecing it together....no doubt Gray jumped on to the topic for the same cause everybody else is here ...TO SOLVE THE DAMN CASE

It could very well be that it started as a book on Kenny wherein he just wanted to say include DW or a McCoy to move away from the monotony of just the KC narration. But when Porteous pulled the plug Gray had no other option but to include EVERYBODY, Vietcong & aliens.

I think that may be the reason why Kenny ends so abruptly in the book despite that is how the narration began.

If I am someone "normal" who knows little to nothing about the case, after reading the book, I'd probably come out thinking DW as a better suspect than KC. And I am guessing that is caz Ms. Jo was more cooperative than Porteous.

Porteous is a PI and if pulled the plug to...well...write his own book then I am guessing there's some meat to KC, so dude...I'd say carry on the work.

If Duane can be made to look so potent then on KC you guys have really done some investigation, I'd not mind reading that up... and ADD theories :P

Let's get real FBI is too busy to look into it. With so many mass murderers out there, if in FBI, even I wouldn't give a rat's tail to DBC.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
skyjack71


I have NOT contrived the story I have told & anyone who meets me or knows me knows I can tease (only in the written word), but actually cannot tell a lie....face to face. I read like an open book! Gray was at least courteous regarding my character...he made me sound like a prude - but, I know why he did that. I did not agree with some of the things he said about me - but, I read the book one time & that was it. I marked things as I read it in the event I had to discuss these things in the future.



He was quiet disrespectful of most members out here and he did use the stories from their lives which were absolutely irrelevant to the topic.

Quote


I LIKED the way he ended his book - he had NO choice, but to crawl into the hole with me. It was not his intended ending....As for the man who supposedly contacted Grey on the end - I think that was PURE fiction



I am glad and surprised at the same time that you are saying this. But then it is kinda THAT obvious.

Anyways, it is not often one gets the opportunity to ask so allow me... Did you really find a cookbook with Tina Mucklow's childhood picture in it?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Brown contacts are a possibility. But when you have to resort to extreme explanations to keep a suspect viable you have to wonder if you are trying to force the facts to fit rather than take them as they likely are.

Sheridan doesn't have brown eyes but he sure makes a supremely qualified Cooper otherwise.

377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
RobertMBlevins

ThousandThings: You will probably have to repost your question later. Where Jo lives on the East Coast it is nearly 3AM. Here in Seattle it is close to midnight.



I'll do that....later in the evening may be.


Quote


I think the only way they will ever solve the Cooper case in the end is through DNA. But...the FBI has said that the partial DNA sample(s) they have from the tie can eliminate someone, but not confirm them as the hijacker.



Partial DNA that FBI has is also not confirmed that it belongs to DBC .... at least that's what I gathered from Skyjack.

And what I know is that there are no fingerprints. Or that FBI picked quiet a few of them and it cannot be confirmed which ones are of DBC... isn't that correct?

Besides, the book is a bit ambiguous on whether Webber was eliminated as suspect basis DNA or not... it has been discussed here a while back (but then so is everything else as well :P) ... can u update me on it?

Quote


Then it's probably like Decoded's Buddy Levy said:

***"Christiansen is either Cooper, or it's the biggest set of coincidences in history..." (paraphrased)

Emphasis on 'coincidences'. :)
You know, I like his quote. He sent it to me in an email. Levy is no slouch. He's a full professor at Washington State University and a multi-published author. We still communicate today.

Hmm... I did a bit of Google on Buddy Levy and certainly he aint no idiot. And what an interesting comment.

Off all the people...KC has been the most promising suspect so far... again I have my questions, however the investigation and the set of coincident would be fun to read about.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
thousandthings

***Brown contacts are a possibility



What all have we resorted to :D:D:DLMAO!

IF D.B.COOPER DIED BEFORE CONFESSING HIS CRIME...I WILL SERIOUSLY KILL HIM!!

See attached screen shot.
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I feel like I have to throw some things out there for discussion.

1 - I can't count the amount of times Larry Carr has said "go by the description and not the sketches." Plus a couple of pages back there Carr is accused of throwing a hoax out there. Did I read that right? Wouldn't he be under a huge amount of DZ scrutiny?
2 - *sigh* Geoffrey Gray did not write an in depth criminal investigation into DB Cooper, he wrote a book (a form of entertainment, granted well researched entertainment) on DB Cooper.
3 - When Earl Cossey said he delivered the chutes, I'm sure he didn't mean he delivered the chutes to Sea-Tac. What exactly is the basis for Cossey being called a liar?
4 - If the Amboy chute had markings, a phone call to Cossey (the FBI, chute expert) would be sufficient to determine if it was Cooper's supplied chutes.
5 - Brown contacts? This thing will never get solved. Instead of increasing the options, why can't we decrease the options?

I feel the heat about to be turned way up here, but (here goes) the DZ needs a little more non-American-paranoid-centric "the FBI, the government, are screwing us over, don't trust anything, conspiracy" in it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

"...3 - When Earl Cossey said he delivered the chutes, I'm sure he didn't mean he delivered the chutes to Sea-Tac. What exactly is the basis for Cossey being called a liar?..."



SO, Rikes, you don't believe me when I say that Cossey told me that he owned the chutes and sent them to Sea-Tac via Boeing Field?

How come?

Similarly, how come you're "sure he didn't mean he delivered them to Sea-Tac." What's the basis of your confidence on this issue?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
thousandthings

***ThousandThings: You will probably have to repost your question later. Where Jo lives on the East Coast it is nearly 3AM. Here in Seattle it is close to midnight.



I'll do that....later in the evening may be.


Quote


I think the only way they will ever solve the Cooper case in the end is through DNA. But...the FBI has said that the partial DNA sample(s) they have from the tie can eliminate someone, but not confirm them as the hijacker.



Partial DNA that FBI has is also not confirmed that it belongs to DBC .... at least that's what I gathered from Skyjack.

And what I know is that there are no fingerprints. Or that FBI picked quiet a few of them and it cannot be confirmed which ones are of DBC... isn't that correct?

Besides, the book is a bit ambiguous on whether Webber was eliminated as suspect basis DNA or not... it has been discussed here a while back (but then so is everything else as well :P) ... can u update me on it?

Quote


Then it's probably like Decoded's Buddy Levy said:

***"Christiansen is either Cooper, or it's the biggest set of coincidences in history..." (paraphrased)

Emphasis on 'coincidences'. :)
You know, I like his quote. He sent it to me in an email. Levy is no slouch. He's a full professor at Washington State University and a multi-published author. We still communicate today.

Hmm... I did a bit of Google on Buddy Levy and certainly he aint no idiot. And what an interesting comment.

Off all the people...KC has been the most promising suspect so far... again I have my questions, however the investigation and the set of coincident would be fun to read about.

Actually, you shouldn't refer to KC as a suspect. The FBI has known about him for years. Not a suspect. There was however, talk that two FBI agents visited Lyle to obtain a DNA sample. That however, turned out to be a lie. Not the only lie in the KC story.
"They were saying he was never gonna make it now, now that daylight had set in. But later that night, they were shining those lights back down on that mountain again." - Todd Snider

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I typed a long post and it went POOF! Everytime I do this I have put a lot of effort into the post and it has real meaning so I do NOT know why such post conveniently go POOF.

It is all in this thread about the Book, Tina the little girl in the book and the picture of the little girl.

Too much pain to try to restructure the post I just did that went POOF! Seems like GOD just doesn't want the story told - especially when the story goes to Tina & that cook book & how it appeared in my home.

I actually got to speak with the author of the book a yr before she died...she was living in FL & still had 2 copies of the book - only 3000 were published and distributed thru a church where Tina lived at the time of the crime.

She was a remarkable woman & very very alert & well spoken for her age which I believe to be in her 90's. She was thrilled to talk about her book.

The little girl's picture I scanned & it stuck to the scanner - I proceeded to attempt to put it back together the best I could.

I did ask the author why she named the little Dutch girl Tina - & she said because she like the name.

Someone once claimed that when the RIVER RATS did their thing a few yrs ago, a couple approached the FBI agent wanting to know what happened to their relative's books that were left on the plane as they were never returned...NOW that could simply have been something that Grey made up..I do not remember where the statement came from.

I read that statement someplace in all of the accountings given of the river search by the group who went there a few yrs ago trying to reconstruct the money find.

Grey saw the BOOKS as there was 2 of them - both from the same era. One connected to AWARE and OR & WA and the other one from a church in the area the crew came out of. ODD!

I still have the books & will cherish them till the end of my life. Another occupant on the plane asked me if I thought maybe Tina used the books to entertain & interact with Cooper. I had no answer for that as that is what I have thought for yrs.

One of the quotes in the book I believe guided Duane to become all he could be...and that book was his conscience & his guide thru out the rest of his life. That is what I believe & I have no proof these books were on that plane - other than the damage to one of the books.

That book had water damage & there was markings on the back to indicate that end had been exposed to water damage.

The markings (impression on the lower back side) appeared to be the same size as legal currency. This all fit the story Duane told me about a shed in WA or OR. Duane left me in THE DALLES for 5 & 1/2 hours one morning & when he got back he was soiled.

He told me a woman he went to see ( a woman whose husband had died) asked him to move somethings in a shed where water had been leaking.

This fits the money & it fits the damaged book....the other book was undamaged....but created & published by the wives of men of who worked with AWARE.

AWARE built airstrips, communications system for private & military facilities...they built the VOR's. They constructed the towers....all of the things Duane was so knowledgable of.
They cleared the land & built private strip for jumpers - such as 2 locations for one of the more prominent jumpers in WA. Duane knew all of these strips & all of these towers & the VOR & he pointed them out to me on our trip in 1979....I had little knowledge of Cooper at that time & Cooper was only mentioned jokingly one (1) time on that trip - our first day in WA & after that NOTHING else was said about Cooper.

Yet, each & every place he took me seems to be significant regarding Cooper's/Weber's knowledge of the area.

NOW do u understand why I will not give up until God calls me home...my quality of life has become such that I live each day hoping beyond all hope that the truth will be known before I am called home.

Recent conversations with a person of interest gave me a gift - not a tangible gift, but one that I needed to go forward with.....faith. I was assured that I was not alone in my beliefs regarding the bible.
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
thousandthings

***Brown contacts are a possibility



What all have we resorted to :D:D:DLMAO!

IF D.B.COOPER DIED BEFORE CONFESSING HIS CRIME...I WILL SERIOUSLY KILL HIM!!


LOL!

We have needed a little sense of humor on this thread for some time now.


Colored contacts were in their infancy at that time and we discussed this for many months & debated it. 1971 - colored contact may have been used in the movies and by very very wealthy people but the ordinary citizen could not afford contacts - I tried my first ones in the early 80's and not a good thing.....at least for me....forgot if they were hard or soft.

I fell asleep with them in and woke up not being able to see - we had take me to the ER to get them out.

First and last experience with contacts.
Now my hand is not steady enough to use contacts - so wear a pair eye glasses that are out dated and falling apart...just not in the budget - but, it is on my have to do list.

Infact looked at frames today...they make them so little no way will they get tri-focals in them and none of the frames were comfortable....what is an old lady to do?

Found one pair that are a maybe at Eye Glass World, but later this week going elsewhere - there is no shopping close to me besides a Walmart & they had nothing to fit my old face and big ole nose....I wear tri-focals.

Can't keep up with one pair much less a pair for driving and a pair for in the house....guess the answer to that is to keep the driving glasses on the dash.
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
377

******Brown contacts are a possibility



What all have we resorted to :D:D:DLMAO!

IF D.B.COOPER DIED BEFORE CONFESSING HIS CRIME...I WILL SERIOUSLY KILL HIM!!

See attached screen shot.

:S Woops! Sorry!

I feel like I am living in LA LA LAND...literally anything's possible.

I couldn't locate this article on that blog...but I am guessing this guy also makes a viable suspect, Isn't it? ....even the timing is correct and of course he could definitely use a bit of extra change!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
ParrotheadVol


Actually, you shouldn't refer to KC as a suspect. The FBI has known about him for years. Not a suspect. There was however, talk that two FBI agents visited Lyle to obtain a DNA sample. That however, turned out to be a lie. Not the only lie in the KC story.



One of the friends and I kinda fell out of contact with each other for years, nothing bad, just owing to busy schedules. We, however lived in the same apartment complex (5 floors apart, he on 19th and I on 24th). For whatever reasons we did not even run into each other in elevators, lobby, pool/garden/gym, common area etc. either and then one fine day I bumped into him at .... Frankfurt Airport...half way across the world. What are the odds?

Truth is stranger than fiction ... and that is the only reason, a novice like me would entertain (and not rule out) any suspects.

I have my doubts on KC, many reasons to it however even in my own head they are shrouded with questions so why not debate instead? Geestman lied...why would anyone? KC lived a rather secretive life...why would he? and so on

I have the same reasons for Webber as well... it cannot be denied that he lived multiple lives and what he did in one of them is still to be unraveled....so again why not?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
skyjack71

Too much pain to try to restructure the post I just did that went POOF! Seems like GOD just doesn't want the story told



It's not GOD...it's the INTERNET GOD...these are 2 different entities I guess. GOD has not gone "online"...yet!:D

Anyways, I read your post but couldn't still comprehend if u did actually find the hand written cookbook with Tina's childhood pic in it?

PS: Maam you have said it before as well, for me to go thru previous posts, please understand we are on page 2318 and there are over 50K posts. Its not possible to find a previous post or send a link to the post.
You are however, free to not respond to a query or ignore.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
RobertMBlevins


The Seattle FBI, contrary to your opinion, DOES consider Kenny Christiansen a suspect in the Cooper case. But not at the beginning. Not then. In late 2007/early 2008 they issued a brief statement as a response to questions about the Geoff Gray article in New York Magazine. They said Kenny didn't match the description.



Damn Gray...my already clouded judgment has become even murkier after the book. He wrote somewhere that a boy found $2000 stuck in a tree hole ... and this pic says in the kitchen counter... didn't anyone tally the serial numbers?

Shouldn't $4000 dollars hidden away raise suspicion anyways DBC or no DBC?

(I am noticing lately all my posts end in a question mark :$)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
BruceSmith

Quote

"...3 - When Earl Cossey said he delivered the chutes, I'm sure he didn't mean he delivered the chutes to Sea-Tac. What exactly is the basis for Cossey being called a liar?..."



SO, Rikes, you don't believe me when I say that Cossey told me that he owned the chutes and sent them to Sea-Tac via Boeing Field?

How come?

Similarly, how come you're "sure he didn't mean he delivered them to Sea-Tac." What's the basis of your confidence on this issue?



BS, I thought it was accepted that the chain of command went NWO SEA Flt Ops scrambled and phoned Pacific Aviation (I believe there is a statement from the individual, Harrison maybe?) who knew/contacted Cossey and he shoved the Hayden chutes he had packed at his house into a cab (after being paid for them by NWO SEA.) They went to Boeing Field then to Sea-Tac by private car to 305. The other two were harder to secure and went more direct by state patrol. It was my understanding that Cossey much later said he "owned" the chutes because he received money for them which was sent in the cab by NWO SEA.

Am I wrong on all that?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

"...Truth is stranger than fiction ... and that is the only reason, a novice like me would entertain (and not rule out) any suspects...."



How big is your ruler, 1K, there are a reported 900 or so confessees.

Right here we've got:

1. Barb
2. Kenny-ish
3. Duane
4. Wolfie G-ish

Then there's smokejumpers, special forces,etc.......

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

47 47