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DB Cooper

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You were corrected once about this Robert. I have every right to challenge any questions on either forum. you put yourself in the position you are in all by yourself.
"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

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You can TRY and blame your behavior on me, but we know you didn't have any good intentions for joining under a false name. that's what got you banned. nobody was talking about you until you joined under false pretenses.

I don't send anyone anywhere on the internet. you and Jo need to understand that.
"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

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Your gall is unbelievable, Shutter. First, you block PM's...then email...then me from your website.



Really? lets see, you accused me of taking a video down that had something to do with copyrights, and basically called me a thief. that's why you were blocked from PM's. you had the wrong person you were directing the whole matter to in the first place (what a shock?)

Email? don't know what you are talking about. nobody is blocked on my emails. I have 3 regular emails, and one for work. not a sole is blocked on any of them.

The you say you were blocked from my forum? do we really need to go into this again?

I asked a simple question, and look at the responses over a valid question. if you didn't want to answer it, then you shouldn't of responded in the first place.

I'm going to try and not respond to this endless circle.
"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

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This is a bit of deja vu.....We had this conversation in 2014 when Robert first received the email from Tom Kaye.

Start here:
http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=4588693#4588693

Basic gist is Tom didn't ask to see the chute when working with Carr because it didn't seem to have any relevance. Kaye asked Eng about it later, but he wasn't sure it was even in the Seattle office, so Kaye was not able to see it.

Feel free to relive the conversation from days of yore.

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MarkBennett

This is a bit of deja vu.....We had this conversation in 2014 when Robert first received the email from Tom Kaye.

Start here:
http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=4588693#4588693

Basic gist is Tom didn't ask to see the chute when working with Carr because it didn't seem to have any relevance. Kaye asked Eng about it later, but he wasn't sure it was even in the Seattle office, so Kaye was not able to see it.

Feel free to relive the conversation from days of yore.



This reminds me of Governor Nelson Rockefeller's famous quote to the media press corps in the 1970s:

"What you think I said is not what I think I meant to say."

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RobertMBlevins

***This is a bit of deja vu.....We had this conversation in 2014 when Robert first received the email from Tom Kaye.

Start here:
http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=4588693#4588693

Basic gist is Tom didn't ask to see the chute when working with Carr because it didn't seem to have any relevance. Kaye asked Eng about it later, but he wasn't sure it was even in the Seattle office, so Kaye was not able to see it.

Feel free to relive the conversation from days of yore.



The truth is that Kaye was quoted correctly. And not only that, but he had ongoing concerns about the Amboy chute. This is plain from his email, and just as plain at his website. I have already quoted both.

I don't believe the date printed on the Amboy chute has anything to do with repacking. It's the Date of Manufacture. And a DOM that reads February 1946 means the chances are close to nil it is actually made of silk.

Same stuff, same argument. Cossey said it was silk. And that's the reason he dismissed it. If he was wrong, then how can you trust his dismissal? If the Seattle FBI says it isn't Cooper's, but doesn't give a reason, just dismisses it...then why would they say it's evidence in an ongoing case five years later?

I can't possibly be the only person who wonders about all that, and the fact that no container or harness were found with the chute. Which means someone disconnected them and took them elsewhere. And no one thinks any of these things are strange?

Brother, some of you must be really gullible. :S

While we're on that subject, I have some nice beachfront property about eighty miles NE of Reno you might be interested in. Cheap, too. Picture attached. ;)


But, the point I was making was that the stories from you and Shutter were not inconsistent. If you had read the thread from January 2014, you'll see that Kaye is quoted as saying they didn't think to ask about the chute when he was granted access to evidence because it had been dismissed. Carr was still the case agent at the time.

Your quote from Tom asking about seeing the chute was obviously later because Eng was the case agent by then.

I'll shorten my post because I see you've edited yours to remove the snarkiness. But, can you be surprised you get the responses you get when you lash out even at people who support your position?

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With what the FBI has on their emails IF they even read them - is a finding NO ONE ever expected.

The information has been forwarded to all who matter & NO one in this thread.


I will provide you guys a hint if U really want to know the answers as to who Cooper REALLY was.

Hale, Colorado.....
Pictures are very very important.
I had researched this before yrs ago,
but now there is something there I had never seen & only told about by Weber.

U guys will recall that Weber was in Colorado & encarcerated....supposedly!
1960 to 1962 & formed a union with a woman in 1962 who he would divorce in 1972.

Immediately after release he spends a few wks with his sister & introduced to another world by his brother-in-law.

Do any of you have any idea where Weber was right after he was discharged from the Navy? Do any of you have any idea where Weber was from 1962 to 1964.

Why did the FBI conceal this or where they ordered to ignore it?

A man Duane knew was wounded & discharged New Yrs. 1945! A man Duane told me about - but, just figured it was just a story.

Remember all of those PATCHES Duane had when he died - the ones I sold to a collector at a garage sale after Weber died?

I am sure 377 remembers.

1943 there was some strange training going on in Colorado....guys who could not pass mustard because of their eye site or other problems - men who made good soldiers, because an organization came to their aid.

A special camp for special people.

Is there a picture of Weber in this camp?
How could that be? In 1943 there were many misfits placed in to specialized traing - some not considered physically capable due to such minor things as vision.

Is there a picture of Weber at this facility?
He definitely knew one of the other men in the picture....because he told me about him, but I didn't know who he was referring to until recently.

Was this the beginning of Weber's on again off again connections to another world?

The authorities will be given a dead line to identify the man in the picture - then I go public trying to find out the name that man used...somewhere there must be a record. I already knew the story yrs & yrs ago and one I tried to tell, but with NO proof.

The connections Weber made at this facility would involve him in other things in the 60's...

I wondered why Duane spoke of these things but I was trying to connect so many dots - and a lot of what is now public was not public 10 yrs ago. Most of the men are deceased and family members are telling their story...this story I already knew because it was a story Weber told me.

At one time I touched on this, but I did not have any physical proof or anything that could make a connection....

Afraid to say anymore in the event it will all go POOF! as so much had done that over the yrs...

Bad timing for me - but, perhaps that is why it is only now being made available...
I want to know MORE & I want to know why I was ignored regarding this - 18 yrs ago.

Old pictures have a way being made public that should never have been, because family members didn't themselves know the significance of the old photos...they were just photos shared by the family as they tell the story about their deceased and picture not intended to be made public. Just a guy sending pictures home to his family....

Of course he had no way to know that one young man would use what he learned to commit a skyjacking in 1971. They after all had been accepted in to a program that allowed them to serve the country they loved.

If there is one pic out there then there must be others & there must be records of some kind....there had to be names. We have no idea what name Weber may have been using.

Surely the CIA or FBI can pull the names of all individuals involved - surely they did not destroy all of the old files. Now we have approx dates and NO reason for the Government to continue to deny deny deny.

Perhaps because Weber was involved in other things after this approx 1943 thing. Remember he supposedly was not in McNeil & yet they used the McNeil prints per Ckret (Carr) & they still use the prints from 1945.
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

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RobertMBlevins

***This is a bit of deja vu.....We had this conversation in 2014 when Robert first received the email from Tom Kaye.

Start here:
http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=4588693#4588693

Basic gist is Tom didn't ask to see the chute when working with Carr because it didn't seem to have any relevance. Kaye asked Eng about it later, but he wasn't sure it was even in the Seattle office, so Kaye was not able to see it.

Feel free to relive the conversation from days of yore.



..........

On a simpler point, one of the reasons I never believed the dismissal of the chute based on Cossey's 'It's silk, and the one I gave to Cooper was nylon...'

Is because after December 7, 1941 silk production and importation virtually ceased in the United States for some years afterward. The chute is almost certainly not made of silk, and that explanation for dismissal appears in article after article about it. It simply doesn't make sense.



There you go again. I'm no silk expert but this is just historically inaccurate.

First, US production of silk has never been much of a success. That is why we had to import it from other countries, principally Japan.

Second. The US ceasing import of Japanese silk did not mean that all of the stores of silk in the United States disappeared overnight.

Actually what happened in 1941 is that the US government froze the imports and commandeered all existing US companies inventories of silk. The existing stock was mandated for government use only for things like parachutes, surgical sutures, electrical insulation. Processing silk for civilian use was prohibited.

Over the next few years, as the supply dwindled, they had to come up with an alternative. This still did not mean that silk chutes totally disappeared as some companies used up their supply while others quickly re-tooled for the new material. According to export records, we were also still supplying some other countries with silk parachute cloth in the mid to late 40s.

I have posted all of this before as well as documentation that showed that while limited, silk parachutes were still being manufactured in some mills in the mid 40s.

But really - even if the chute was not silk and was a first generation nylon - in the pictures it did not look like rip-stop nylon - even to my untrained eye.

If the chutes supplied to the hijacker were made of the material that was shown at the Washington historical exhibit that Sailsaw posted....then all the wishes in the world won't turn it into what has been photographed as the Amboy chute.
but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

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Yes, fair is fair. you screwed up with your little stunt. if you don't wish to reply, that's how that works. I don't turn my blocks on and off like you do.

I have gone to the source. the source doesn't really agree with your conclusion at this point. I'm waiting for a second response.

This started back in January of 2014. you were claiming for several years that Tom was denied, and stonewalled while asking to see the chute while at the office of the FBI. that wasn't the case at all. he never asked to see it. that's straight from the source.

When someone makes a claim the first thing you do is confront that person for more information. if one is not satisfied at that point, then yes you go directly to the source, if you can.

If he did ask years later, you can't expect the FBI to have a revolving door for you to return anytime you wish. if they dismissed the chute, it's still considered part of the investigation. the policy doesn't permit discussion about an open case.

You will probably get the same results asking for anything, for example, the test results on the money found on Tina Bar (FBI results) or the complete results of the drop test.

You will probably not get an answer to who suspect #24 was, or anything involved with the case itself. it's open, and they will not discuss it with who ever wishes to see something. I agree that they should be a little more open with this case, but they follow strict guidelines apparently. the chute could of been sent to Washington, it was probably wasn't there during his visit.

It's not a mystery that he was denied, you will find that same pattern with anything related to the case.
"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

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You don't read things very well Robert. I said you were claiming for years that he was denied access to the chute. that was the argument back then.

I emailed Tom January 13, 2014, his reply was " we never saw the chute. we didn't think to ask about it at the time because it had been dismissed."

That is his exact quote. I shouldn't have to reveal anything. you were the one stating something different than what the argument was about. it was basically you saying he was denied.

I have the screenshot cocked and loaded. it will read the same..

Now, I read back in the thread were you emailed him, but I haven't seen anything from you. that's what needs to be shown. my email doesn't say anything about being denied anything. it's about what occurred during the visit to the FBI.

I'm not the one making the claims here Robert! my email was about the previous claims you made for several years prior to 2014.
"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

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RobertMBlevins

I read your post, Smokin99. So do you believe, as Cossey said, that the Amboy chute is actually made from silk, and not nylon? Historical accuracy aside regarding silk production or importation during WW2, that is the real question isn't it? Because it is the only criteria Cossey used to dismiss it.



Well first - if we are talking history I think it's is pretty important to be accurate. logic says ... if you say that he cannot summarily dismiss it based on historical events....., then you need to be accurate in your assessment of those historical events.

I don't know if it was silk. It could have been first gen nylon, but I do not rule out that it was a cargo chute made of silk in 1946.
Or even that it was a chute that was sewn prior to 46 and serialized when it was harnessed or sold.

I also believe this -- regardless of the actions by the FBI regarding the Amboy chute.... or who did or did not look at it, I believe that a master rigger should know something about chute material. I might be wrong, but I don't think you can totally dismiss Cossey's credentials in this area.

And I also don't think you can believe everything you read. "Yeah I knew in the first ten seconds it wasn't the chute" is probably just Earl Cossey posturing for the media. I will admit he did a lot of that.

But yes, it is my admittedly non-expert opinion that the Amboy chute close-up did not look like the material poking out of the chute that Sailshaw had a picture of -- that I believe he said was Hayden's. (And before you go there -I'm not talking about the color, condition, etc.)

Hey not that we will ever be told anyway, but I might be wrong. It happens occasionally :):D
but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

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smokin99

******This is a bit of deja vu.....We had this conversation in 2014 when Robert first received the email from Tom Kaye.

Start here:
http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=4588693#4588693

Basic gist is Tom didn't ask to see the chute when working with Carr because it didn't seem to have any relevance. Kaye asked Eng about it later, but he wasn't sure it was even in the Seattle office, so Kaye was not able to see it.

Feel free to relive the conversation from days of yore.



..........

On a simpler point, one of the reasons I never believed the dismissal of the chute based on Cossey's 'It's silk, and the one I gave to Cooper was nylon...'

Is because after December 7, 1941 silk production and importation virtually ceased in the United States for some years afterward. The chute is almost certainly not made of silk, and that explanation for dismissal appears in article after article about it. It simply doesn't make sense.



There you go again. I'm no silk expert but this is just historically inaccurate.

First, US production of silk has never been much of a success. That is why we had to import it from other countries, principally Japan.

Second. The US ceasing import of Japanese silk did not mean that all of the stores of silk in the United States disappeared overnight.

Actually what happened in 1941 is that the US government froze the imports and commandeered all existing US companies inventories of silk. The existing stock was mandated for government use only for things like parachutes, surgical sutures, electrical insulation. Processing silk for civilian use was prohibited.

Over the next few years, as the supply dwindled, they had to come up with an alternative. This still did not mean that silk chutes totally disappeared as some companies used up their supply while others quickly re-tooled for the new material. According to export records, we were also still supplying some other countries with silk parachute cloth in the mid to late 40s.

I have posted all of this before as well as documentation that showed that while limited, silk parachutes were still being manufactured in some mills in the mid 40s.

But really - even if the chute was not silk and was a first generation nylon - in the pictures it did not look like rip-stop nylon - even to my untrained eye.

If the chutes supplied to the hijacker were made of the material that was shown at the Washington historical exhibit that Sailsaw posted....then all the wishes in the world won't turn it into what has been photographed as the Amboy chute.

There was some discussion from 2010 on this site for example this one

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3947064#3947064

saying that "silk" parachute after the 1930s, weren't really silk anymore, but some material that looked like silk. If there were any issues of biodegradation or lack thereof, that could be why.

I'm just posting what I read. I encourage anyone with more knowledge than me to comment.

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RobertMBlevins

All well and good...

However, does any of this mean that Cossey was right when he dismissed the Amboy chute as not being a Cooper chute...

Because he said it was made of silk, and the one he gave to Cooper was nylon? :)



At this point we don't have enough information to know whether he was right or wrong.

Additionally, the FBI said that Cossey was not the only source they relied upon.. whether you believe them or not, or spin anything else that they said -- it was reported that other experts were consulted. And please....... I know all of your arguments -- they just aren't sustainable.

As for as them saying it is still evidence in a case, I think that is just their standard response: on-going case and can't comment. Face it, unfortunately, they don't have to tell us anything.
but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

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MarkBennett

*********

There was some discussion from 2010 on this site for example this one

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3947064#3947064

saying that "silk" parachute after the 1930s, weren't really silk anymore, but some material that looked like silk. If there were any issues of biodegradation or lack thereof, that could be why.

I'm just posting what I read. I encourage anyone with more knowledge than me to comment.



Yes, I remember reading this. And he is probably right as far as nylon was the norm for parachutes and overall, silks were gone.

I'm certainly not an expert, but I just don't think it is historically accurate as to manufacturing, sale, or export of silk chutes fro the mills. Yes by 1946, the majority of manufacturers had crossed over, but not all. I looked at some mfg data, export, and government data when all this was discussed way back when and it "appears" that some mills were still mfg real silk parachutes in 1946. But hey, maybe that was leftover inventory and they went on and used it instead of cutting it all up into hankies.

LOL...I just think about betamax. Think how long that tried to hang around after it was clear they were gone. Okay maybe that analogy is a stretch, but think about it from a mfg point of view. When nylon came around it didn't just appear when all the silk was gone and all of a sudden overnight everyone is using this great new stuff. Nylon had to be tested. ........So it's tested and Now it's the new thing, but you aren't gong to be able to switch overnight. Even after you do switch, what are you gonna do with the leftover silk - that's a lot of scarves......so you call up Joe who you happen to know in procurement for the forestry service and say you've got some old chutes in the back that are already sewn up.....make you a good deal. Silk worked 4 years ago...it still works. Maybe it's the cultural goggles thing but I just can't imagine that everything turned on a dime back then....

And then again, I could be wrong.
but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

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During the war - silk was almost impossible to find...old wedding dresses were remade just so the bride could wear silk. My mother and father married in 1938.

Too own a silk fan to use at church was a luxury during the war....I was only a baby, but I heard the stories told by my Aunts and my grandmother and great grandmother.

In 1960 when I got married silk was an easy find - I should know - I got married in 1960 and so did some of my friends.

I still have a silk war time fan my Great Aunt willed to me - I was named after their daughter who died at the age of 19....during the Flapper days.

Her daughters room was the same as it was the day she died...I was not allowed to go there, but did slip in one day & got caught. I told my aunt I just wanted to know about she was like....she just didn't want me in that room. Their home was very luxurious for the day.

When I spent the nights with them I had to sleep in the same bed with the two of them - they were very large individuals & was always afraid they would roll over on me. It was the only heated room in the winter besides the kitchen. As I got older I refused do go there...but still wanted to know about my name sake...My aunt and uncle were very closed mouth about her...but, I NEVER knew why. She was 19 when she died & I do not know what her ailment was. Her pictures looked very healty & very pretty...it was always a secret and now there is no one to ask now that I would like to pass the story on down the road...

So many of us have heard the stories of the past & we didn't write them down & now the history is lost.

I think that is why this thread has been so valuable to me. I is my exploration of Cooper....and the man who told me he was Dan Cooper 9 days before he died.
I do believe and know with all of my heart and soul that IF Duane Weber was NOT Cooper - he knew who was.

I believe Duane Weber was actually Cooper or I would not have pursued this for 18 yrs. A picture recently found shows Weber at the age of 19/20 yrs. He is wearing a uniform and he is with 2 other individuals...and it was NOT Navy. If it was not Weber it was his twin.
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

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RobertMBlevins

******All well and good...

However, does any of this mean that Cossey was right when he dismissed the Amboy chute as not being a Cooper chute...

Because he said it was made of silk, and the one he gave to Cooper was nylon? :)



At this point we don't have enough information to know whether he was right or wrong.

Additionally, the FBI said that Cossey was not the only source they relied upon.. whether you believe them or not, or spin anything else that they said -- it was reported that other experts were consulted. And please....... I know all of your arguments -- they just aren't sustainable.

As for as them saying it is still evidence in a case, I think that is just their standard response: on-going case and can't comment. Face it, unfortunately, they don't have to tell us anything.

Actually, I have to hand it to the Seattle FBI for answering my very occasional questions. They return the email, they call the office. It was only when I asked about the Amboy chute that they told me it was still evidence.

I'm a fairly straightforward guy. My next question would be, 'How could it be evidence if it was dismissed as evidence five years ago?' Makes sense to me. :)
I hope I'm not the only one who asks these type of questions.

Believe it or not, no you're not.

My response to you would be, "You are wanting the government to be logical. That on its face is illogical." :)
Really, I think the point is they are not going to discuss it with you or let Tom Kaye have it ....and whatever reason they give for that is as good as the next. Because it's their government speak for "No and we don't really have to have a reason".

Why do they still insist that this is an on-going case would be my question. Let us have all the stuff. You'll never get a conviction if you caught him trying to pass a 20 at the curb store tomorrow. :D:D
but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

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1943 and 1964 that was 71 and 51 yrs...is it time for the GOVERNMENT to release the truths?

If the do not there are those who will do their best to make AMERICA look bad.
Fess up to the secrets NOW & spare yourself the disgrace. The secrets no longer need to be kept.

We were promised several yrs ago the truths would be told - but the government only presented the things we already knew. All who had any sense at all knew Area 51, was not about aliens just government secrets....things that are common today - advancement of the electronics world & the fact the government actual stole the info off of one brilliant veteran...who was never given recognition.

AWARE was very involved in the construction of the air strips and the towers. But that was only part of the secret.

Secret CIA operations to train and arm Tibetan freedom fighter against the Chinese Communists....it was called Intermountain Communications. The very place they trained at was the same place that was used for another special group in 1943.

Individuals who did NOT fit the molded requirements such as vision and other health conditions - the US thought did NOT make a good Soldier.

In 1964 approx another group trained there & they recuited some who had trained there in 1940's...but the mission was different this time...they needed individuals who would never be missed & who needed the money - one word for it was Fortune Hunters...they also knew they might not survive - they would just come up missing, like the father of the man whose daughter I befriended only to have a cheap shot taken for the information I had coveted for yrs. Ex-con were perfect for this mission.

I was taught a vauable lesson - do not befriend ANYONE regardless of how sad their story is...protect yourself & have no heart ...I know where her father is buried, but she doesn't want to know...and I wasnt supposed to make the connections.

Old women and technology and a telephone and persistence and lots of REAL friends over the yrs...

Now the secrets are being revealed. It is no secret NOW. Duane Weber was part of the 1943/44 group in Colo and then again in 1964 with Air America. Why the hell do some of you think the files are still closed.

WELL, due to technology and so many individuals willing to keep on searching for the truths - the secrets are No longer a secret and the longer the government keeps secrets the worse they look to others.

The FBI and the CIA and or Government knows Duane Weber (or whatever name he was using) was there in 1943/44 and he was there in 1963/64. Families of ligitimate soldiers & warriors tell the stories about their family members & they post pictures they had NO idea after 71 yrs would open up a can of worms.

A picture that put Weber someplace he was NOT supposed to be in 1943/44.
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

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mrshutter45

Amateur Radio Callsigns in the United States
Class Size Format Letters Example
Group A Amateur Extra Class Four characters 1-by-2 K, N, or W plus two letters W1AW
2-by-1 AA-AL, KA-KZ, NA-NZ, or WA-WZ plus one letter AB0C
Five characters 2-by-2 AA-AL plus two letters AB2MH
Group B Advanced Class[18] Five characters 2-by-2 KA-KZ, NA-NZ, or WA-WZ plus two letters NZ9WA
Group C Technician or General Classes Five characters 1-by-3 K, N, or W plus three letters K9DOG
2-by-2
(location specific) KL, NL, or WL; NP or WP; KH, NH, or WH, plus two letters KL5CD
Group D Novice,[18] Club, and Military Recreations Stations; and sequentially to Technician or General Six characters 2-by-3
(Novice or Club) KA-KZ, WA-WZ plus three letters KA2DOG
2-by-3
(Sequential) KA-KZ plus three letters KN0WCW

care to explain KAJW4899? maybe it was BR-549?


______________________________________________

"Care to explain KAJW4899? maybe it was BR-549?"

CB radio licence callsign, smarty pants! Gees, you are always wrong on everything it seems. It is the only thing I can rely on with complete certainty. I don't remember my Hodgman callsign, but BR-549 sounds close. That sucker had some POWER!

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RobertMBlevins

All well and good...

However, does any of this mean that Cossey was right when he dismissed the Amboy chute as not being a Cooper chute...

Because he said it was made of silk, and the one he gave to Cooper was nylon? :)
EDIT: You guys are asking the wrong questions, and seeking out the wrong sources. The pictures of the Amboy chute aren't that great. It was buried in the ground for years, no one knows how long. You should be going to the Seattle FBI.

The Seattle FBI examined the Amboy chute initially and announced there were no identifying markings on it. Then they said there WERE. Right away, this is a problem. How hard is it to lay out a chute and take a good look at it for evidence? Then they said it was the right size, the right color, and found in what they called the prime landing zone.

They supposedly consulted outside experts, but only by phone. Don't believe it? Ask them.

The one organization who was allowed to examine and analyze the physical evidence in the Cooper case and then create a world-class website on it, the Citizen Sleuths, were not allowed access to the chute. As Tom Kaye said:

Quote

'We have, I have begged Curtis in person to no avail. (to see the Amboy chute) I am not even sure its in the Seattle office...'



The Sleuths now have a standing offer to go to the site where the chute was discovered and dig for more evidence. It's on their website.

No harness or container were found with the Amboy chute, meaning someone removed them and took them elsewhere. Or they are still undiscovered nearby, and if found, would identify the chute. And somebody took the trouble to bury the canopy, as well.

In a score or more of nationally and internationally published articles, Earl Cossey is quoted repeatedly saying he dismissed the chute as Cooper's because it was silk and not nylon.

However, it is unlikely that the chute is actually MADE of silk.

In the end, the Seattle FBI dismissed the chute as Cooper's without giving an actual reason on how they determined this. Not one.

Five years later, in response to inquiries about the Amboy chute asking for any reason the chute was dismissed, the Seattle FBI says:

***'It is evidence in an ongoing case...'


Maybe a FOIA request is in order here. How do you REALLY know the truth?

And the truth on that is this: You don't.

______________________________________________

"However, does any of this mean that Cossey was right when he dismissed the Amboy chute as not being a Cooper chute... "

You have to discount Cossey completely and not believe anything he said because he was part of the operation. He was the "go-to-guy" for the FBI to get the chutes. I know for a fact that the "X" chute was packed by Bill, not Cossey, and the chutes were intentionally stored with Cossey specifically for this operation. I clearly remember the entire conversation. Bill preferred the "older" chutes because they were better. It was the FBI that screwed things up on the retrieval of the chutes. I talked with Cossey about it. His comment to me and others was, "There are a lot of very important people involved here..." I can give you the list again, if you would like. That's the REAL truth of the matter. Not some cabin boy fairy story brewed up in the far reaches of your mind at the request of our mutual friend. Gotcha! You are an open book, Blev.

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Blevins
" You say EDIT: You guys are asking the wrong questions, and seeking out the wrong sources. The pictures of the Amboy chute aren't that great. It was buried in the ground for years, no one knows how long. You should be going to the Seattle FBI"

I can tell from looking at the two photos that the Amboy chute is not rip-stop nylon.

so get over it and forget about the Amboy chute.

Bob Sailshaw
[email protected]

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I already have the Word doc original version of Bruce's book



When I said, I could even read "crap"... I meant it metaphorically :D


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I have pretty much all the mainstream Cooper books and two copies of Ha Ha Ha, which isn't mainstream but is fairly well written. Can you believe it?



Suggest me a few titles and I am game. Thanks for suggesting Skyjack...just finished reading it. I was aiming for yours next "Into the Blast" .... it was 2nd in the list of suggested reading in Skyjack ... so might as well.


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I also have a big surprise for everyone tomorrow. But it isn't KC or Cooper-related, or about Bruce's book or anything. It does have to do with Kindle and Amazon though. Let's just say that due to sharp readers and the fact I do have (some) fans who figured out the truth, I had to make some 'adjustments'.



Since my tomorrow happens before yours, I hope I haven't missed the news yet :P

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'In March of 2008, a parachute was discovered buried in Amboy, WA that the Seattle FBI said in articles was the right color and size to the one used by skyjacker 'DB Cooper'......They called my office and said that the 'Amboy Chute' was 'evidence in an ongoing investigation,' even though they had dismissed it as evidence five years previously. See my July 2013 email to them and judge for yourself.



Isn't this a hoax made up by Larry Carr...at least that's what I gathered by reading Skyjack...What am I missing here??

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Since nobody asked my opinion… I feel compelled to give it.

It is on the recent Bestseller “Skyjack…The Hunt for D.B.Cooper”.

I am glad I read the book, it’s something I’ve been saying for a while now that irrespective of whether KC, DW, McCoy, Barabara Dayton etc. etc. are DBC or not, it can still be presented in a way which can, not just be readable but can also be entertaining enough to be Bestsellers.

With Geoff Gray’s book, I stand corrected!!


For those who have not read it, it is seriously not worth mentioning here on DZ as most people here (well including me actually, the Cooper Commoner) can easily give a run to Geoff Gray for his money. Let’s just say, in terms of commerce, he got away with most with least invested, at least so far. (although the book promises that 2 more books by members of DZ are on way…so let’s see)

Anyways, Skyjack is a cacophony of accounts, DBC suspects..ALL OF THEM (literally), quotes from here at DZ, mentions about it members and a rather lame attempt of adding the Martin Luther King & Kennedy angle to it….way to go Mr. Gray… I am just glad aliens did not feature beyond just the passing mentions. And Spoiler Alert: Vietnam features rather heavily along with needless to say Nixon & his "suits".

Actually the connection of this book with DBC is just a coincidence...Geoff Gray would've written DOT the same book irrespective of which unsolved crime it was about. :D:D

(Also with that I would like my LOKI theory to be considered officially as well :P)

I, however, have a renewed respect for this forum after finishing the book as the author has literally primarily based his book and “research” on this forum, it’s many members and has quoted many posts from here. (He has very graciously acknowledged them but I am guessing that is primarily for lack of an option. Still!)

Besides the entertainment value, in terms of quality the book offers nothing to no one and ends in a rather disappointing ending of adding one more conspiracy to it, in the name of someone who is “referred” as Jack because …. Well you guessed it right …. he wants to remain anonymous (so I am guessing another “deathbed” confession and Part II of the book)

Read it as a rather long gossip column and if you are reading the e version, stop at around page 400 something…it just goes South from there on.

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Skyjack: Good and bad parts to this book. Would be better book if my co-author and private investigator Skipp Porteous would have kept Gray informed on the investigation into Christiansen. Blast: Published four years ago now. We learned a lot more about old Kenny Christiansen since that time. The basics are solid, but I would not rely on it totally for all the answers on Kenny.



I don't think your evidences have anything to do with Geoff Gray... Porteous n you introduced Gray with an interesting and commercially bankable subject.... and let's just say Gray flew with it.

There's not even an iota of SENSE in that book...it's pure SENSATION!


I mean he just fell short of including Big Foot & The Wow Signal :D:D:D ....

Ms. Jo... you SHOULD read the book... his descriptions about your posts are rather "INFORMATIVE" :P and let's get real he's otherwise outright condescending about MOST members on here and have only used their personal lives and pasts, COMPLETELY unrelated to DBC, just to spice up his book. ("Charlene" episode is the most blatant example of that)

It may be Commerce but then how is it any different from Bruce knocking on Mucklow and family's door and then writing nasty public articles about them?

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RobertMBlevins

******Since nobody asked my opinion… I feel compelled to give it.



lol.... then you'll fit right in with the rest of us. :)
Here's another opinion. I have forgiven Skipp Porteous, but it's going to bug me from now until forever that he cut Geoff Gray out of the loop during the most critical time of the investigation into Christiansen. I will never forget getting Gray's book from Amazon on the day of release.



LOL, Robert, you blame poor ol porteous for everything........give the guy a break......if Gray had wanted to include anything more about Kenny, pretty sure he could have gotten it here.......or just picked up the phone and called the man.

I never got the idea that Gray's book was just about Kenny per se. He was just one of the several that he hit on and there's only so much space. Frankly, the general consensus seems to be that Geoff lost his cooper jones towards the end anyway.....I wouldn't let it bug me forever.
but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

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