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DB Cooper

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"...I pretty much agree with what the "99"s said (Smokin, Robert). As for the russet suit issue, anybody who spends any amount of time around vintage clothing via thrift stores and estate sales has seen sun faded black suits and tuxes. Black fabric, when exposed to sunlight, takes on a reddish brown hue over time. This can also happen with bleaching or over-washing. Maybe the Cooper suspect spent some time in a sunny climate, say Mexico. Or maybe his suit was older and had been washed many times..."



All good points, Nimi Wrecks, but I suggest we take a closer look at the russet jacket and all that comes with it from Mr. Robert Gregory, the passenger who is the source of the "russet jacket" tidbit.

Gregory also claims Cooper had marcelled hair, was in his mid-30s, and stood at 5'9" tops. These are all outliers on the DBC profile.

Plus, no one ever heard of this stuff until Geoffrey Gray popularized the info in 2011 in Skyjack. So, who is Robert Gregory and why is GG so ga-ga over him?

As is so common with Geoff, he bases his stuff on a FBI file that he has stumbled across, or was given (!?) in his perusal amongst the Norjak mother lode. GG treats this kinds of information as absolute truth, and offers no discerning analysis of whether it is factual or a clerical glitch. I say the FBI file as presented by Geoffrey is ka-ka because it describes Robert Gregory as sitting in the same row as the skyjacker.

However, the Seattle Times posted an interview with Gregory on the day after the skyjacking where Gregory admits he only saw the skyjacker from the front of the plane as he stood to disembark, along with the other 35 passengers. Okay, so 18 rows is the maximum distance between the two guys, but still - after a 3.5 hour flight and the rush to get off the plane, that's a little iffy for announcing a dramatically different view of Cooper than Tina's.

Plus, we have plenty of confirmation that only Bill Mitchell, Cooper, Tina and Flo sat in Row 18.

Do you really think Geoffrey Gray doesn't know who was sitting in Row 18? If so, then maybe he should tell us why he doesn't know. How can one of the foremosts authors on Cooper be so ignorant?

So, an equally important question is why has Geoffrey Gray introduced the russet jacket into our discussion?

Is this the concrete evidence of a quid pro quo by the Bureau? If you wanna look at the files you're gonna have to write what we want you to?

Is the russet jacket, marcelled hair, 5-9 and mid 30s an act of misdirection by the FBI via GG?

Who benefits from us talking about a russet jacket?

How come no one else is talking about this canard? How come GG isn't writing about Robert Gregory and these dynamics? I was in Tacoma with Geoffrey when "Uncle Robert's" family introduced themselves to the crowd. Where was GG's follow-up?

Nevertheless, I asked the family where Uncle Robert was sitting and they didn't know. That suggests to me that those details were not too important to Uncle R, and he never relayed them to his adoring relatives.

After all, don't let the facts get in the way of a good story. That's what my father always said, and he lived by that truth. I suppose Uncle Robert did as well.

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You at least have to take into consideration that you might be hung up on semantics about ownership when it is quite possible that Earl Cossey, as a master rigger who handled and packed the chutes, knew more about the parachutes than Norman Hayden who, by his own account, had never used it.




I have some information that was mailed to me by Cossey & we I had several conversations. I needed to know what the chute looked like & most importantly the hardware on the chute.

Cossey sent me some pages of pictures with a short NOTE - which I still have somewhere in all of this crap...

The pictures are of the same type of chute that Cooper wore & with the same connectors - forgive me, but I have forgotten the name of them.

I was supposed to have mailed a copy of the pictures to 377, but still have not done so...Cossey said the chute was exactly like the one he repack for the other guy...who owned the chutes.

He was a very matter of fact man & not one time did he tell me he owned the chutes - just that he packed them. Maybe someday if I am able I can dig into the old files & make a copy & mail it to 377 as I promised so long ago...

Cossey did NOT deliver the chutes - to the airport. From what I remember of what he told me he took them someplace & someone else delivered them to the airport...but Cossey never claimed to have delivered the chutes to the airport. Something about their going to the wrong place.

I had several phone calls with Cossey.
Why I call him a Spitfire. He could be short with words, but he was also kind at the same time. I always wanted to meet him.

I never understood why it always sounded like he was in the wind when we spoke. Now I know it was because he was in an open car - probably a convertible. He was always on his cell....he was always on the road and in a hurry...always going some place.

He & his wife were no longer living together...the last time we spoke.

I do not remember how many conversations we had over the yrs & he was only home a couple of the times. One not long before I learned he was killed.

I always apologized for intruding into his life. He was very nice he realized I could not understand what he was telling me & sent me those pictures with a note...I thanked him for those pictures.

A picture is worth a 1000 words - and I was very grateful for his taking the time to do this for me....

He finally got it - I was an old woman who had never seen a chute up close or opened or on a human being. I remember he even chuckled at that.

He was at home the last time we spoke...I had called him about something I thought he should know about.

That last time I spoke to him it was only briefly - he had his phone, but had left his keys on the counter...I had called him to tell him something important. He thought he heard something.

That was the last time I spoke to him. I will alway remember him with fondness. It was not too long after that call I learned he had been killed.

Like the authorities I do not believe Cossey's death was intentional. I do NOT think that Cossey was a careless person - who would have left his house unlocked. My last call to him was to warn him about Bruce....

I wish I had records of my phone calls but with the unlimited I do not...then I would know the last time he & I spoke. It was after Bruce interviewed the other guy.

He had left his keys on the counter but had his cell with him and he heard something...told me to call him back...but I didn't. Next thing I know he is dead.....

Maybe I was the last person to talk to Cossey before he died....I don't know but it was not long before I found he had been murdered.

FACT or FICTION! Someone knows!

Remember I was spooked because about a wk or so later a car unknown to me was coming down my street in the early morning hours...about 1 or 2 am.

Large older white car...either a Caddy or Lincoln. I contacted the Sheriff's office ...and the car never showed up again.
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

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RobertMBlevins

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'As is so common with Geoff, he bases his stuff on a FBI file that he has stumbled across, or was given (!?) in his perusal amongst the Norjak mother lode. GG treats this kinds of information as absolute truth, and offers no discerning analysis of whether it is factual or a clerical glitch. I say the FBI file as presented by Geoffrey is ka-ka because it describes Robert Gregory as sitting in the same row as the skyjacker...'



Gray has said that he was allowed access to the original witness reports. (The statements from witnesses that were taken and written out by FBI agents in Reno and Seattle) I also checked all references in Gray's book that refer to Gregory. He is only mentioned three times. First...on a page where Gray says he almost missed the flight, was the last to board, and sat across from the hijacker. Second, when Gregory gives his description of the hijacker on page 92. Third, when Gray references Gregory's description of the hijacker again near the end of the book. That's it. No other references.

From what I can tell, it sounds like Gray made a mistake in the book when he said Gregory sat across from the hijacker because we know it was actually Bill Mitchell.

I suppose it's possible that Gregory saw the hijacker if he used the restroom or something. They were up there for a few hours, after all. I don't know though...I think this is a question for Geoff Gray. Sounds like he forgot that he had already put Mitchell in the same seat, because he talks a lot more about Bill Mitchell being in that seat, and what he does while he is there. Gregory is only mentioned regarding that seat the one time and then never again. Sounds like he mixed them up a bit there. The book editor should have caught that one.



Wrongo, Bobby-o.

In 2013 at the Tacoma symposium, Geoff showed up the FBI file that detailed Gregory's id stuff. The feds got it mixed up.

Now, the questions are several:

1. How did the feds get it mixed up? Did Gregory lie to them?

Or did the FBI agent mix up Gregory's and Mitchell's statements, AND there was no supervision to correct the mix-up?

Or, did the feds get Gregory's ID correct in 1971 and knew he didn't see much reliably, but in 2011 they fudged it as part of a smoke-and-mirrors operation to sabotage Norjak?

Or, did Geoffrey craft the Ka-Ka all on his own AND thought he could get away with it, ie: no one would keep track of who was sitting in Row 18? Remember, Himmelsbach still gets it mixed up, and puts Cooper in 18C.

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"...He was a very matter of fact man & not one time did he tell me he owned the chutes - just that he packed them....Cossey did NOT deliver the chutes - to the airport. From what I remember of what he told me he took them someplace & someone else delivered them to the airport...but Cossey never claimed to have delivered the chutes to the airport. Something about their going to the wrong place...."




I spoke with Cossey several times from 2009-2011, and every time we spoke he adamantly claimed that he owned the chutes. He even told me that Northwest Orient paid him for the two back chutes.

He also adamantly claimed that he had sent the two back chutes off to Boeing Field, and the last time I spoke with him I asked him why he sent them to the wrong airport, he shouted "Fuck You" and slammed the phone down.

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"...I thought for years I was half-Irish too. Then my mother did a complete download and assembly of a huge notebook of material and pictures of our family from Ancestry dot com. Dates back to the mid 1700's and some pictures were Civil War era. She sent me a copy mounted in this big photo album. Found out I was half-Scottish, not Irish.

Bummer. Half-Irish and a birthday on St. Paddy's I thought was very cool. WAS. Unfortunately, no. [:/]..."



Now you're letting FACTS get in the way? BOBBY!

What are we going to do with you????????

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The article you posted on this thread after Blevins gave you a little coaching....didn't you make a comment or did someone else about getting an interview with Cossey.

The post on Norm Hayden - when was that done?
I wanted to read it again...but also want the day & yr you posted it....

You made comment after that about getting an interview with Cossey.

I didn't realize you had actually interviewed Cossey (by phone) prior to your post regarding your inteview with Hayden. If you talked to him on the phone why were you pushing for a face to face?

Maybe I got all the dates messed up.
Time is irrelevant at 75....and with one surgery after another.
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

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RobertMBlevins

I do believe in facts. I'm just not much for conspiracy theories, which I always view with a jaundiced eye. About the only two I believe in over the last sixty years or so are probably JFK and Roswell. And that someone assisted James Earl Ray in the purchase of the hunting rifle, and provided him the money to flee the country.



Some where in history is a picture of James Earl Ray in New Orleans, Ala or Florida with a rifle in his hand.

No one had to aid him in purchasing a hunting rifle...not in the 60's. You are aware that James Earl Ray was connected to the Man in New Orleans who had no hair (a ridiculous wig) no eyebrows ( he used homemade ones) & he experimented with MICE in his home....forgot his name & would not know where to look for it.

That man & James Earl Ray & Duane Weber all knew each other before James Earl Ray went to prison & escaped. John Collins was in the same prison when Ray escaped.....

Duane's lady friend talked about knowing Ray. The man who called a place Ray was working after he escape was named Collins. I do not know what name Ray was using after he escaped.

Duane and his lady friend & a couple of kids spent 2 wks with with the no hair man until Duane & his wife could find a job after they fled Colorado in 1968 after the FBI or came looking for him.... Duane (John Collins) had been released from Jefferson and was working in Co when they came looking for him.

Hell, All it took was the mention of James Earl Ray to get me off in to the deep again. Forget somethings - but haven't forgot that YET!
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

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RobertMBlevins

I don't know the answers to your questions, but I DO know that two guys can't sit in the same seat unless they are really friendly or something. :)
That was my point. Gray has both of them basically in the same place when there can only be one. Since he went into much greater detail on Mitchell sitting across from Cooper than he did with Gregory, it's obvious that MITCHELL was actually the one in the seat across from Cooper. I merely asked Gray to straighten all that out.
I wouldn't go into conspiracy mode on it quite yet. :)
On a separate note, I sent a message to the KCSO and the Woodinville PD suggesting they perhaps submit Cossey's case to Cold Justice. I provided them the link to the online submission form. I did tell them that only family members of the victim or law enforcement could suggest cases.

From the criticism of the King County Sheriffs Department by Justice, Seattle office, it's obvious they need some help on this one. I say bring on Kelly Siegler and Yolanda McClary and let these women take a shot at it.



I think they should submit the Cossey case to "Law and Order". That way, not only will they catch the killer, they can also put him on trial and convict him -- all within 60 minutes!
B|B|B|

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RobertMBlevins

William Gossett as Cooper: I think at some point GC realized that he was flogging a dead horse. He used pictures taken years before the hijacking as comparison for Cooper.

See the attached picture. It shows Gossett at his retirement ceremony at Ft. Lewis, WA only 18 months after the hijacking.

Think he's Cooper? If an Army guy still on active service had pulled off the hijacking, the FBI would have figured it out long ago. ;)



Doesn't look like Cooper at all. Too much hair.

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RobertMBlevins

Cooper was seen cutting up paracord and wrapping it around the bank bag, as well as around his waist.

The attached picture shows the most likely reason WHY.



Blevins,

Paratroopers do NOT jump with their equipment bag swinging around like that. That bag is attached to the harness and is not released to drop below them until they are almost down to the ground.

I have seen paratroopers release that bag but hold it between their feet until they cleared some power lines. After clearing the power lines, they let it drop down to the end of its tether and then made a normal landing.

Robert99

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Robert99

***Cooper was seen cutting up paracord and wrapping it around the bank bag, as well as around his waist.

The attached picture shows the most likely reason WHY.



Blevins,

Paratroopers do NOT jump with their equipment bag swinging around like that. That bag is attached to the harness and is not released to drop below them until they are almost down to the ground.

I have seen paratroopers release that bag but hold it between their feet until they cleared some power lines. After clearing the power lines, they let it drop down to the end of its tether and then made a normal landing.

Robert99

THAT POST SHOWS HOW LITTLE YOU KNOW. I HAVE PROVEN IN THE PAST THE SMOKE JUMPERS JUMPED W/LOTS OF "STUFF.....THEY HAD EQUIPMENT WITH THEM ESSENTIAL TO SURVIVE & IT WENT WITH THE JUMPER.

THE HEAVY EQUIPMENT DANGLED BELOW THEM & NOT BETWEEN THEIR LEGS - THAT COULD HURT REAL BAD - IF A PIECE OF THAT EQUIPMENT HIT YOU KNOW WHERE.

ME THINKS YOU NEED TO RESEARCH THIS!

YOU NEED TO SEE THE PICTURES OF THE JUMPERS FROM BACK IN THE DAY....YOU NEED TO READ THEIR STORIES OF SURVIVAL.

GETTING TANGLED IN A TREE WAS NOT A PROBLEM - THEY KNEW HOW TO GET OUT!

I SUGGEST YOU PICK UP A BOOK REGARDING THE BEGINNING OF SMOKE JUMPING. YOU REVEALED HOW LITTLE YOU ACTUALLY KNOW.

IN FACT THERE USED TO BE A CLIP ON AN OLD SMOKE JUMPER SITE WHERE THEY ACTUALLY SHOW THESE GUYS GOING IN WITH THEIR "STUFF"!

PAPERLEGS PETERSON WAS A MASTER AT THIS...THEIR LIVES DEPENDED ON THEIR EQUIPMENT.

THE SMOKE PLANES USED SPOTTERS & LOAD MASTERS...THAT PERSON WAS NOT NECESSARILY A JUMPER...HE MAY HAVE MADE A COUPLE JUST ENCASE HE NEEDED TO BAIL. SOME OF THE LOAD MASTERS USED A CHUTE & SOME DID NOT...I HAVE SEEN ONE PICTURE WHERE THE LOAD MASTER DID NOT HAVE A CHUTE ON.

MAYBE THEY WERE SHORT ON CHUTES BACK IN THE DAY!
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

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MY LAST CONVERSATION WITH COSSEY.

He & his wife were no longer living together...the last time we spoke.

I do not remember how many conversations we had over the yrs & he was only home a couple of the times. One not long before I learned he was killed.

He was at home the last time we spoke...I had called him about something I thought he should know about.

That last time I spoke to him it was only briefly - he had his phone, but had left his keys on the counter...I had called him to tell him something important. He thought he heard something.

That was the last time I spoke to him. I will alway remember him with fondness. It was not too long after that call I learned he had been killed.

Like the authorities I do not believe Cossey's death was intentional. I do NOT think that Cossey was a careless person - who would have left his house unlocked.

I wish I had records of my phone calls but with the unlimited I do not...then I would know the last time he & I spoke. It was after Bruce interviewed the other guy.

Maybe I was the last person to talk to Cossey before he died....I don't know but it was not long before I found he had been murdered.

FACT or FICTION! Someone knows!

Remember I was spooked because about a wk or so later a car unknown to me was coming down my street in the early morning hours...about 1 or 2 am.

Large older white car...either a Caddy or Lincoln. I contacted the Sheriff's office ...and the car never showed up again.
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

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BIG NEWS

My book, DB Cooper and the FBI - A Case Study of America's Only Unsolved Skyjacking, is now available at Amazon, in a Kindle version, which is an e-book. The text reads very easily on a commuter screen, but is designed for tablets and such, too.

I am so excited!

My Amazon site is also set up for discussions, ala blogging, so you can interact with a broader audience than here or at the dbcooper forum. $6.99 gets you in the game in the USA, and in about 90 days I'll be seeing about $4. But if you want to buy it in Russia, it's gonna cost you $89. (?) Italy is eleven Euros. Hmmmmm....

Also, if anyone would like to post a review at Amazon, I'd be most appreciative.

http://www.amazon.com/DB-Cooper-FBI-Americas-Skyjacking-ebook/dp/B00UULLCOW/ref=sr_1_1_twi_1_kin?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1426642459&sr=1-1&keywords=DB+Cooper+and+the+FBI

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RobertMBlevins

***

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"...He was a very matter of fact man & not one time did he tell me he owned the chutes - just that he packed them....Cossey did NOT deliver the chutes - to the airport. From what I remember of what he told me he took them someplace & someone else delivered them to the airport...but Cossey never claimed to have delivered the chutes to the airport. Something about their going to the wrong place...."




I spoke with Cossey several times from 2009-2011, and every time we spoke he adamantly claimed that he owned the chutes. He even told me that Northwest Orient paid him for the two back chutes.

He also adamantly claimed that he had sent the two back chutes off to Boeing Field, and the last time I spoke with him I asked him why he sent them to the wrong airport, he shouted "Fuck You" and slammed the phone down.



He's claimed these same things in the media over the years in articles. Several times. Some of the more recent references are in articles related to the Amboy chute discovery. This is one of the reasons I continue to question his quick dismissal of the Amboy chute. One article quotes him as saying, "I knew it wasn't Cooper's in less than ten seconds..." after the FBI brought it to his house in the trunk of a car. That was on a Thursday or a Friday I believe. By early the following week, the Seattle FBI wrote off the chute with their pithy 'by a totality of the information' explanation, which was in reality...no explanation at all. When I asked them about the whole thing later, they admitted that the 'other experts' were only consulted by telephone. Go figure.

First Robert, as to the Amboy chute, you said that it was reported via news article or conference that "they" admitted that the other experts were only consulted by phone. And you have never produced said article even though you said you would. I believe this is the first time that you have posted "when I asked them about the whole thing later". Very convenient to take something that you can verify into the realm of "cause I said so"..... Maybe it's just me, but credibility suffers every time you change your story.

As I have posted before, I have no doubt that time and ego got the better of Earl Cossey as it has claimed other principals in the case - and, obviously I stand corrected to the extent that Bruce has or will publish reports of Cossey saying "I owned the chutes and I delivered the chutes". I will give you that.

However, I still submit that it will be difficult to impossible to find published articles from the news media - especially of the day -- where Cossey is QUOTED stating "I owned the chutes and delivered them". If you can find them, I will give you that.

The fact is , in all of the articles I have found, with the exception of one, Cossey has never been quoted as saying this, it is always just assumed by the writer to be a given. Just as they always say it was a horribly dark, freezing, and and stormy night, they also write, "Earl Cossey, the man who supplied the chutes......." I agree that he never corrects them and allows them to write whatever - but show me news media (other than Bruce's articles) where he says it outright.

I'm not doubting you - I'd just, for once, like you to back up what you say with something verifiable. Just trying to go the source and question everything, Robert.

But back to Cossey, all of the articles of the day that I have found only say he packed the chutes, except one. And the one article that I could find when he was quoted as saying anything about ownership it was obvious that he was referring to this ownership in the vein of "yes, they're mine because I put them together." AS per the example I gave of the painting I did that someone else owns. And as per the following excerpt from the Oregonian, dated November 26, 1971..

The parachute backpack on which the hijacker depended was a new rig specifically made for stunt fliers, not skydivers and had never been used, "Yep, that's my chute," said Earl Cossey, president of Seattle Sky Sports when the parachute and harness were described to him. Both backpacks supplied the hijacker were made by Cossey, but owned by Norman Hayden, a stunt pilot at Renton Aviation Co.

So there you go.....call him a liar and a fraud, but I still maintain that lack of ownership and/or misrepresentation of same does nothing to change the fact that his knowledge of the parachutes, as a master rigger of those chutes, was superior to that of someone that never used and likely never saw the chutes.
but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

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BruceSmith

BIG NEWS

My book, DB Cooper and the FBI - A Case Study of America's Only Unsolved Skyjacking, is now available at Amazon, in a Kindle version, which is an e-book. The text reads very easily on a commuter screen, but is designed for tablets and such, too.

I am so excited!

My Amazon site is also set up for discussions, ala blogging, so you can interact with a broader audience than here or at the dbcooper forum. $6.99 gets you in the game in the USA, and in about 90 days I'll be seeing about $4. But if you want to buy it in Russia, it's gonna cost you $89. (?) Italy is eleven Euros. Hmmmmm....

Also, if anyone who like to post a review at Amazon, I'd be most appreciative.

http://www.amazon.com/DB-Cooper-FBI-Americas-Skyjacking-ebook/dp/B00UULLCOW/ref=sr_1_1_twi_1_kin?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1426642459&sr=1-1&keywords=DB+Cooper+and+the+FBI



Congratulations Bruce!!
but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

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RobertMBlevins

***BIG NEWS

My book, DB Cooper and the FBI - A Case Study of America's Only Unsolved Skyjacking, is now available at Amazon, in a Kindle version, which is an e-book. The text reads very easily on a commuter screen, but is designed for tablets and such, too.

I am so excited!

My Amazon site is also set up for discussions, ala blogging, so you can interact with a broader audience than here or at the dbcooper forum. $6.99 gets you in the game in the USA, and in about 90 days I'll be seeing about $4. But if you want to buy it in Russia, it's gonna cost you $89. (?) Italy is eleven Euros. Hmmmmm....

Also, if anyone who like to post a review at Amazon, I'd be most appreciative.

http://www.amazon.com/DB-Cooper-FBI-Americas-Skyjacking-ebook/dp/B00UULLCOW/ref=sr_1_1_twi_1_kin?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1426642459&sr=1-1&keywords=DB+Cooper+and+the+FBI



I fully support this book, Bruce....and then all that other stuff.

Lord, have mercy.
but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

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RobertMBlevins

******Cooper was seen cutting up paracord and wrapping it around the bank bag, as well as around his waist.

The attached picture shows the most likely reason WHY.



Blevins,

Paratroopers do NOT jump with their equipment bag swinging around like that. That bag is attached to the harness and is not released to drop below them until they are almost down to the ground.

I have seen paratroopers release that bag but hold it between their feet until they cleared some power lines. After clearing the power lines, they let it drop down to the end of its tether and then made a normal landing.

Robert99

Things don't swing around in a still photo. They are still. If you don't believe that's what Cooper had in mind when he tied up the bag, and then did the cord around his waist...then why do you think he did those things with the bag and the cord?

I doubt he was tying the rope around his waist to try and lower himself to the ground. If he released the bag, he probably did that after the chute had fully inflated. The picture, other than the military garb, makes perfect sense. I believe you disagreed with my assessment not because it is impossible, but because I was the one who suggested it.

My personal opinion, due to the fact that Cooper did not have a reserve chute, is that he went to the bottom of the stairs...held onto the bag...and then pulled the ripcord right off the stairs. Once it inflated, it would pull him away from the aircraft. He may have released his hold on the stairs while the chute was actually inflating. Once he stabilized and the chute was fully inflated, that's when he would have let the bag drop below him. As long as the bag and the paracord holding it were not subject to full opening shock, (because he is holding the bag) it would be more than able to support the twenty-two pounds of money from the paracord holding it. Type 3 550 cord has a minimum of 550 pounds strength. I'm not a skydiver, but I know that much.

Cooper taking a freefall off the stairs with a single, untested chute? Sure, that could happen. But that takes more nerve than most people possess. Pulling off the stairs to MAKE SURE THE DAMN THING WORKS before you just leap out there into darkness...is much more likely in this situation. It is safer, and more like a static line jump. If the chute doesn't pop, then you can go back up the stairs and try the sport model.

Quote

"It's the only option with the greatest margin for safety..."

A Mission Control technician from the film, Apollo 13.



I don't believe for a second he just went to the bottom of those stairs with that money bag and a single parachute and yelled 'Geronimo'. Engines sceaming above your head? Probably some fluctuations on the stairs when he already had to use his own weight to force them down? It's dark, it's noisy as hell? Probably over an area he wasn't planning on anyway? At night?

Not a chance in hell. I would bet money on it. He eased his ass to the bottom of those stairs and just tried the ripcord right there. As I said, if it doesn't work, he can go back and try the other chute. To just trust your life to a single chute without knowing if it will work, well...that's hard to swallow. Especially when you have another chute available up in the cabin.

Look, I understand popular culture likes to believe Cooper just leaped off into the night like it was nothing. But I have tried many times to put myself into the shoes of someone who would actually be crazy enough to leap out the back of a jet at night, using a set of moving stairs. And every time I think about it, and couple that with the stair problems, the no-reserve, the added weight of the money bag, I just don't see a Geronimo here. I see a guy who probably eased himself down the steps backwards and pulled the cord at the bottom. This makes sense if you take into account the conditions he faced. He had to have wondered whether the chute would even work, and with no reserve, why would he take a chance on that when there is the OTHER chute available?

Just in case...:)
Blevins,

I am complimenting you when I say that your response above is "just plain silly".

And your are to be commended for observing that "things don't swing around in a still photograph". I would have never guessed.

My first guess about what Cooper did when he tied the money bag around his waist was to make it as tight as possible to his body so that it would not swing around when he jumped (which is also how I have seen it done by paratroopers).

Your habit of putting words in Cooper's mouth represents only yourself and not Cooper. Based on your comments, I would suggest that Cooper had more guts than you.

So you would stop at the bottom of the stairs and pull the ripcord just to see if anything happened.

Cooper may have thought otherwise at the time, but he really only had one parachute with him. That put him in the class of people making emergency parachute jumps.

I don't know how many emergency parachute jumps (with only one parachute) have been made in aviation history but it is probably in the hundreds of thousands. And practically all of those parachutes worked as advertised.

In any event, single parachute jumps are an "either/or" situation. Either you make it or you don't. There is no "maybe" involved.

And so you think Cooper is going to be able to hold onto that money bag all by himself during the opening 10g shock?

Finally, I disagree with your assessment above because it is stupid and for no other reason.

Robert99

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skyjack71

******Cooper was seen cutting up paracord and wrapping it around the bank bag, as well as around his waist.

The attached picture shows the most likely reason WHY.



Blevins,

Paratroopers do NOT jump with their equipment bag swinging around like that. That bag is attached to the harness and is not released to drop below them until they are almost down to the ground.

I have seen paratroopers release that bag but hold it between their feet until they cleared some power lines. After clearing the power lines, they let it drop down to the end of its tether and then made a normal landing.

Robert99

THAT POST SHOWS HOW LITTLE YOU KNOW. I HAVE PROVEN IN THE PAST THE SMOKE JUMPERS JUMPED W/LOTS OF "STUFF.....THEY HAD EQUIPMENT WITH THEM ESSENTIAL TO SURVIVE & IT WENT WITH THE JUMPER.

THE HEAVY EQUIPMENT DANGLED BELOW THEM & NOT BETWEEN THEIR LEGS - THAT COULD HURT REAL BAD - IF A PIECE OF THAT EQUIPMENT HIT YOU KNOW WHERE.

ME THINKS YOU NEED TO RESEARCH THIS!

YOU NEED TO SEE THE PICTURES OF THE JUMPERS FROM BACK IN THE DAY....YOU NEED TO READ THEIR STORIES OF SURVIVAL.

GETTING TANGLED IN A TREE WAS NOT A PROBLEM - THEY KNEW HOW TO GET OUT!

I SUGGEST YOU PICK UP A BOOK REGARDING THE BEGINNING OF SMOKE JUMPING. YOU REVEALED HOW LITTLE YOU ACTUALLY KNOW.

IN FACT THERE USED TO BE A CLIP ON AN OLD SMOKE JUMPER SITE WHERE THEY ACTUALLY SHOW THESE GUYS GOING IN WITH THEIR "STUFF"!

PAPERLEGS PETERSON WAS A MASTER AT THIS...THEIR LIVES DEPENDED ON THEIR EQUIPMENT.

THE SMOKE PLANES USED SPOTTERS & LOAD MASTERS...THAT PERSON WAS NOT NECESSARILY A JUMPER...HE MAY HAVE MADE A COUPLE JUST ENCASE HE NEEDED TO BAIL. SOME OF THE LOAD MASTERS USED A CHUTE & SOME DID NOT...I HAVE SEEN ONE PICTURE WHERE THE LOAD MASTER DID NOT HAVE A CHUTE ON.

MAYBE THEY WERE SHORT ON CHUTES BACK IN THE DAY!

Jo,

You obviously didn't even read my post. Your knee-jerk response is pure bull.

Smoke jumpers did carry some equipment on their person when they jumped. They also had heavier equipment dropped to them in separate parachutes.

Getting tangled in a tree CAN be a problem. Tangling with live power lines is a DEFINITE problem.

Robert99

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RobertMBlevins



Robert99: I want you to remember something here. First...I see your posts at the alternate site. Second, you came at me for that theory on the money bag for personal reasons, not because you believe it is silly, or that I am stupid.

We're not talking about a 'normal' jump in any sense of the word, and in fact...377 and I agree on many of the points I gave in my theory about the jump. He thinks Cooper may have pulled off the stairs as well. This actually is less risky than simply leaping off the stairs with a single, untested chute. And he didn't have just ONE chute available. There was still the unused sport model in the passenger cabin.

When I took into account the situation under which he had to jump, I came to the idea that perhaps he eased down the stairs and pulled the ripcord at the bottom, just to make sure. You think he trusted to luck on the one chute and just did a Geronimo at 175MPH or so. Okay...we will have to agree to disagree on that one. Besides, there is no way for either of us to know who is right, since no one actually saw Cooper jump except Cooper. My theory is just as good as any other on this point.



Blevins,

Don't kid yourself. Your "theory" is just your imaging things that you are not familiar with.

WHEN THE RIPCORD IS PULLED UNDER THE CIRCUMSTANCES RELATED TO COOPER'S JUMP, THE CANOPY IS GOING TO COME OUT OF THE PACK.

EVEN IF THE CANOPY DOESN'T INFLATE, AT 225 MPH THE DRAG FROM THE UNOPENED CANOPY WILL BE SUFFICIENT TO PULL YOUR ASS RIGHT OFF THOSE STAIRS.

YOU WILL NEVER HAVE A CHANGE TO GET BACK UP INTO THE CABIN TO PUT ON THE OTHER PARACHUTE.

I don't know exactly what 377 told you (would 377 clarify if necessary?), but I imagine he was only discussing the best way to avoid such things as tumbling and disorientation. I doubt very much if 377 was talking about "testing" a parachute to see if it would work.

People wearing only one parachute have survived emergency ejections at Mach 3+ (over 2000 MPH) at or above 70,000 feet. Making a voluntary jump at 175 MPH is nothing heroic.

Robert99

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RobertMBlevins

You are reading too much into what I said regarding how he jumped. I merely said he probably pulled off the stairs, rather than doing a freefall. The 'test' thing? I am not sure on that. Who knows? Maybe Cooper pulls the ripcord and it comes off in his hand and nothing pops. 'Thank you, Seattle FBI, for fixing my chute so it doesn't work...' I don't know. You are right. 377 should imput here.

If I were a betting man, I would say rather than risking a freefall in the dark, he probably pulled off the stairs. No one really knows, and it's only a theory anyway.



Blevins,

You seem to be ignoring the simple fact that Tina said she witnessed Cooper "pre-flight" the parachute. You also do not seem to understand that parachutes are designed to work and they get the job done in almost all instances.

You are just transferring your fears into what you believe Cooper must be thinking.

Robert99

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To give ya a taste of what's in the book:

Table of Contents



Chapter 1 An Introduction to DB Cooper and the FBI’s Investigation

Chapter 2 The Skyjacking Begins

Chapter 3 The Getaway

Chapter 4 The Search for DB Cooper Begins

Chapter 5 Sketches of DB Cooper

Chapter 6 Bill Mitchell, a Prime Witness

Chapter 7 Profile of DB Cooper

Chapter 8 The FBI Investigation Digs In

Chapter 9 The Murder of Earl Cossey, the FBI’s Parachute Expert

Chapter 10 Flight Path, Weather, and the LZ

Chapter 11 The Money Find

Chapter 12 Looking for Tina Mucklow, the Primary Witness

Chapter 13 The Legacy of Cooper Case Agent Larry Carr

Chapter 14 Citizen Sleuths

Chapter 15 DNA

Chapter 16 DZ; the Mountain News, and the DB Cooper Forum

Chapter 17 922 Confessions

Chapter 18 The Confession of Barb Dayton

Chapter 19 The Deathbed Confession of Duane Weber

Chapter 20 The “Confession” of Kenny Christiansen

Chapter 21 The Family Confession of Wolfgang Gossett

Chapter 22 Early Suspects, Ted Mayfield, and the Cooper Vortex

Chapter 23 The Vortex and a Jailed Suspect, Don Burnworth

Chapter 24 “Most Promising” Suspect, Marla Cooper’s Uncle LD

Chapter 25 Letters from “DB Cooper” and the Mysterious Al Di

Chapter 26 The Ideal Cooper Suspect, Sheridan Peterson

Chapter 27 Suspects from Vietnam - SOG and Ted Braden

Chapter 28 Richard McCoy, MKULTRA, and the Role of the CIA

Chapter 29 Copycats

Chapter 30 Robb Heady, an Interview with a Copycat

Chapter 31 Cyber Attacks on Cooper Investigators

Chapter 32 Why Can’t the FBI Find DB Cooper?

Chapter 33 Remote Viewing, a New Forensic Tool

Chapter 34 What’s Next in Norjak?

Reference A: Who’s Who of Norjak—The Hunters and the Hijacked

Reference B: What if DB Cooper Didn’t Jump?

Reference C: Barb Dayton and the National Geographic Documentary

Reference D: Factoids from the 2013 Symposium

Acknowledgements

Biography of the Author,

Author’s Note

Photo Gallery (26 photos)

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RobertMBlevins

Quote

First Robert, as to the Amboy chute, you said that it was reported via news article or conference that "they" admitted that the other experts were only consulted by phone. And you have never produced said article even though you said you would. I believe this is the first time that you have posted "when I asked them about the whole thing later". Very convenient to take something that you can verify into the realm of "cause I said so"..... Maybe it's just me, but credibility suffers every time you change your story.



I've addressed this before. 'When I asked them later,' means when I called them and emailed about the Amboy chute in 2012 I think. Maybe it was last year, I forget at the moment. I got one email back, one phone call return. There IS an article out there somewhere stating that experts were consulted by PHONE...and I have seen comments about this over at the alternate site as well.

Look...some articles Cossey claims to have owned and delivered the chutes to the airport. That is a given. Others he is quoted as just packing them. That can be checked. It is also a fact that Cossey based his decision on his 'It is silk and the one I gave to Cooper was nylon'. That statement appears in a lot of the articles, as well as "I knew it wasn't the right chute in less than ten seconds".

What do you want from me? I saw a post from you on page 2014 where you say 'everyone wants to re-address the Amboy chute' or close to that. So maybe you should ask the Seattle FBI as I did.

Cossey's non-ownership and non-delivery of the chutes is a fact. The real question is whether his instant dismissal can be relied on as the final answer to the Amboy chute. And on that one, I just don't know. It would have helped if the FBI had given something to media on their decision beyond 'a totality of the information' which is basically a non-answer.
....


You only got that from what I wrote....lol...okay I'll try one more time.

What I would like from you is what I said....just once...to back up what you say with something verifiable. Just trying to go the source and question everything, Robert.

Now you say you asked the FBI and they "admitted" to you that they only talked with these experts by phone.

Robert, I guess I just don't believe you. AND yes, before you tell me....I realize that you don't care what I think...B|..lol....honestly - it might be true that they did only talk to them by phone - but what I'm saying is that your statement that they said this in a published report has never been verified by showing the article!!

As I said, re: his claim of ownership - I stand corrected to the extent that Bruce has or will publish reports of Cossey saying "I owned the chutes and I delivered the chutes". I will give you that, but I still submit that it will be difficult to find published articles from other news media - especially of the day -- where Cossey is QUOTED as stating "I owned the chutes and delivered them".

In the excerpt I posted it is obvious that he was referring to this ownership in the vein of "yes, they're mine because I put them together." To refresh your memory or in case you missed it, the following excerpt from the Oregonian, dated November 26, 1971..

The parachute backpack on which the hijacker depended was a new rig specifically made for stunt fliers, not skydivers and had never been used, "Yep, that's my chute," said Earl Cossey, president of Seattle Sky Sports when the parachute and harness were described to him. Both backpacks supplied the hijacker were made by Cossey, but owned by Norman Hayden, a stunt pilot at Renton Aviation Co.

lol....but you know what -- lucky for you, I'm done with this. Going in for an dropzone intervention.
I will give you that he claimed ownership in a backhanded way. Hell....I'm feeling the wine, I mean magnanimous --- so I will even give you that he claimed this outright to other news media besides Bruce if you need that.

This is a silly argument when the end result is the same. But I do not feel bad about trying to keep you and the narrative honest.

So the takeaway: (lol... I hate that buzzword)

Call Ol Coss a liar and a fraud, and try to pretend that he is irrelevant. What I say is that he is most likely a victim of human frailty -- in that the fish just kept getting bigger and bigger. Kind of reminds me of some other folks I know. B|

Yet and still, his non-ownership / non-delivery and/or misrepresentation of same does NADA to change the fact that his knowledge of the parachutes, as a master rigger of those chutes, was superior to that of someone that never used and likely never saw the chutes. Tunnel vision just prevents you from giving credit where credit is due.

And, as Forrest Gump says - that's all I've got to say about that.

lol....and I bet you one hundred dollars to your favorite charity that you cannot pass this up without having the last word....:DB|
but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

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