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DB Cooper

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thousandthings

***See attached picture for the seating arrangements and stew assignments on Flight 305.



which one was Mitchell's seat?

No. 1 is 18 C, his allotted seat. No. 2 may be where he moved to later...yeah ask someone


1K, here's what I know:

There were no "allotted" seats. It was "open seating."

Bill Mitchell sat in 18-B, put his coat in 18-A, and books in 18-C.

The diagram that Bobby provided is a bit misleading, as it shows a more modern version of a 727 than the one Coop skyjacked, which had fewer rows.

Hence, Cooper's Row 18 was the last row in the plane.

Cooper moved twice, as I understand his movements. Initially he sat in the aisle seat, 18-D, to hand the note to Flo, sitting behind him on a galley jump seat. Then he moved over to 18-E to accommodate her as she sat next to him in 18-D for Bomb Inspection.

Then, when she left to seek refuge in the cockpit, Tina sat in 18-D. Cooper stayed in 18-E until he went to the lavatory while the passengers deplane in Sea-Tac.

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RobertMBlevins

thousandthings says in part:

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It was not me who forwarded that idea, but FBI agent Ralph Himmelsbach, one of the first agents to investigate the case. He said that because the sticks seen by the stew were red, that he thought the bomb was fake because mostly dynamite is tan in color. I think he was wrong on that statement, because I have seen many examples of real dynamite in pictures that IS red. I don't know. Himmelsbach also said it was storming the night of the hijacking, but then the official weather reports from PDX (Portland Airport) say THIS. Basically, no storm.

To paraphrase Martin Sheen from the film Apocalypse Now...

***
'There was so much bullshit in Vietnam, (Cooper case) you needed wings to stay above it...'




Okay I get it...yeah I don't think so either...I think it is Himmelsbach's Hoover size ego talking. And it did seem like a larger conspiracy to discredit Cooper simply since FBI could not crack the case. How can one man fool an entire organization and thus make claims like he died in the jump and the get a John Doe warrant out just in case...Ridiculous!!


***
I had to include the testimony of Geestman's niece in the report. It is up to the Seattle FBI to decide if she is telling the truth. I think she is, but it is not my opinion that counts.



hmm... let's see if FBI investigates it further, I am curious to read their reasons if at all.

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Road flares have a cap on top and writing on them. The instructions for use. Even if you take off the plastic cap, there is still the black ignitor on top. Easily recognizable. And they are longer than six inches. Just saying.




Just 'jumping in' with another opinion Robert...

Road flares back then were significantly different than what's available now...for that matter so is Dynamite.

Flares came in at least 3 different lengths giving various burn times. I'm not positive on the exact lengths but 6, 12 & 18 inches is a good guess.

State police & wreckers always used the longest ones. They were a pain because of their length...they would tend to crack and break if bounced around in a car trunk too long spreading the contents all over.

They'd crack open because they were a Paraffin wax coated paper ...just like old dynamite.

The end caps were metal not plastic and once removed you could pop off that little black blob of striker material from the stick...sometimes on cheaper or old flares it would just fall off.

Back then dynamite came in 8 inch sticks 1.25 inches around.

There were 3 different grades 30% 40% 60% - which denoted the amount of nitro inside.

It came in several different colors but the most common was a brownish grocery bag type of thing. I've also seen and used dynamite that was orange and various tones of red.

Popular misconception by people that were unfamiliar with it was the different colors pertained to different grades...they did not.

The thing dynamite and road flares kinda have in common is that they both would tend to get darker in color with age and or improper storage. The chemicals would start leaching into the paper.

They both also had writing on them.

Anyone who's actually handled old dynamite can tell the difference between that and a road flare by sight, touch and smell - however someone who's only frame of reference is Hollywood movies and television shows might easily mistake them at quick glance.

Doing farm work I was rigging dynamite before I could drive a car... I learned the important differences in grades the hard way, when instead of loosening a stump for removal I turned it into half a ton of toothpicks and shattered all the west facing windows in the house.

OOOPS :$


Directing the blast is art & science. Lay a stick of dynamite on the driveway and set it off - all you have is a burn mark...lay a phone book on top of the stick, and you get a 3 foot hole in the concrete.

You can light dynamite on fire and it won't explode it just burns...and shooting it with a pistol to set it off is a Hollywood fantasy. Takes a somewhat faster & focused explosion to set it off - blasting caps work well by design but det-cord which burns at 20,000 FPS is quite effective and cheaper.

Fun stuff!;)










~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

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RobertMBlevins

******

How did Tina describe the bomb? Her description is very important.



Here is an entry in the "FBI Notes" for 7:55 PM PST with Tina back in the cockpit.

"MSPFO asked for stewardess best recollection of exact content of HJ briefcase. She got on radio [this would be the radio patch to MSP thru the ARINC network] and gave following basic information:

- Eight red sticks, about 6" by 1" in left corner of briefcase, 'look like big firecrackers.' Two rows of sticks, four on top of four.

- Wire attached to dynamite with red insulation.

- Battery 'like flashlight battery, but about 6" high and as big around as my arm.'

- Red sticks are about the color 'of my uniform.' "

My interpretation of Tina's remarks are that the sticks and the battery were about the same length. The battery was probably the same kind as Sluggo has pictured on his web page. Perhaps the battery's length can be found more accurately and provide a more accurate estimate of the length of the sticks.

The wires that ran from the battery to the sticks had red insulation.

And the color of the sticks was about the same shade of red as Tina's uniform. Himmelsbach looked at a NWA stewardess' uniform and got the impression that Tina might be describing road flares.

Robert99


I was present when the instructions for building this thing were given to Duane Weber. Bill told Duane to "Go down to Hardware Hank and get some wood dowels and cut them into lengths and PAINT them red. Get some wire and wad it up and throw it in there. You'll need a battery and maybe a clock too. It doesn't have to look real, just enough that someone could believe that it MIGHT be a bomb."

I suspect that this is what Duane did as road flares as a rule are too big to fit the description given by Tina. Duane followed all of the other instructions exactly, so there is no reason to expect he would vary on this important task. This is the real truth of what happened, not speculation based on logic. It was designed to be a demonstration that did not happen. It was revived and used by the FAA under Nixon to persuade Congress to ratify the International Air Piracy Act, which they would not, did not do. Nixon then made it law by Executive Order. And THAT is your real BOMB!! Ask Nick O'Hara to spill the beans. He was in charge. It's a SECRET!! Like Nick says.

Now Mr. Badgerman, McShutter, can claim all the bad things he wants to, since he wants to negate everything I say, but the truth of the matter is that I am telling you what really happened and he is guessing at best, if not fabricating like Blevins. I have no dog in this race except that I believe in total transparency. If it was right to do it, it should be right to 'fess up. If it was wrong, these guys should suffer the consequences. I think it was right. The politicians were wrong to put popularity above safety. If you don't understand this simple fact of truth, you should find a new hobby.

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RobertMBlevins

******

How did Tina describe the bomb? Her description is very important.



Here is an entry in the "FBI Notes" for 7:55 PM PST with Tina back in the cockpit.

"MSPFO asked for stewardess best recollection of exact content of HJ briefcase. She got on radio [this would be the radio patch to MSP thru the ARINC network] and gave following basic information:

- Eight red sticks, about 6" by 1" in left corner of briefcase, 'look like big firecrackers.' Two rows of sticks, four on top of four.

- Wire attached to dynamite with red insulation.

- Battery 'like flashlight battery, but about 6" high and as big around as my arm.'

- Red sticks are about the color 'of my uniform.' "

My interpretation of Tina's remarks are that the sticks and the battery were about the same length. The battery was probably the same kind as Sluggo has pictured on his web page. Perhaps the battery's length can be found more accurately and provide a more accurate estimate of the length of the sticks.

The wires that ran from the battery to the sticks had red insulation.

And the color of the sticks was about the same shade of red as Tina's uniform. Himmelsbach looked at a NWA stewardess' uniform and got the impression that Tina might be describing road flares.

Robert99

Road flares have a cap on top and writing on them. The instructions for use. Even if you take off the plastic cap, there is still the black ignitor on top. Easily recognizable. And they are longer than six inches. Just saying.

Blevins,

Do you understand that Tina was describing what SHE saw in the briefcase?

Under the limited conditions she had to view the items in the briefcase, no one would expect her estimates of 1" in diameter and 6" long to be exactly correct. Which is why I suggested that the battery proposed by Sluggo, if its measurements can be located, would be useful in determining the actual lengths of the sticks.

Further, Tina did not mention the "top" of the sticks or how the wires were connected to the sticks. So don't jump to conclusions.

And it was Himmelsbach, not Tina, that suggested the sticks might be road flares.

Just saying.

Robert99

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"..... I mean even McCoy types were carrying real weapons..... "
______________________________________________

Actually, Mac's 45 was empty and the grenade was a dummy paperweight. Yah, real, but non-functional. Mac said the guy sitting across the isle was a big football type that could have taken him out in a second and he was scared to death that he might! A lot of little facts are hidden in the FBI training film of his hijacking, like wing tip shoes on the FBI Agent delivering the money... Mac helped make the film, if that gives you any clues.

Bob Knoss

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BobKnoss


***
I was present when the instructions for building this thing were given to Duane Weber. Bill told Duane to "Go down to Hardware Hank and get some wood dowels and cut them into lengths and PAINT them red. Get some wire and wad it up and throw it in there. You'll need a battery and maybe a clock too. It doesn't have to look real, just enough that someone could believe that it MIGHT be a bomb."






"I was there when Duane was given instruction"....(At the risk of sounding a complete idiot)...are you quoting someone or is it that you were really there when Duane was given instructions to hijack this plane?

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BobKnoss

"..... I mean even McCoy types were carrying real weapons.....

"
______________________________________________

Quote


Actually, Mac's 45 was empty and the grenade was a dummy paperweight. Yah, real, but non-functional. Mac said the guy sitting across the isle was a big football type that could have taken him out in a second and he was scared to death that he might! A lot of little facts are hidden in the FBI training film of his hijacking, like wing tip shoes on the FBI Agent delivering the money... Mac helped make the film, if that gives you any clues.

Bob Knoss




Gosh..this Cooper case is a labyrinth and I aint a Cooper royalty ...I seriously have no clue what are you taking about...help me understand where can I read more about what u saying...the film etc.

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thousandthings

***"..... I mean even McCoy types were carrying real weapons.....

"
______________________________________________

Quote


Actually, Mac's 45 was empty and the grenade was a dummy paperweight. Yah, real, but non-functional. Mac said the guy sitting across the isle was a big football type that could have taken him out in a second and he was scared to death that he might! A lot of little facts are hidden in the FBI training film of his hijacking, like wing tip shoes on the FBI Agent delivering the money... Mac helped make the film, if that gives you any clues.

Bob Knoss




Gosh..this Cooper case is a labyrinth and I aint a Cooper royalty ...I seriously have no clue what are you taking about...help me understand where can I read more about what u saying...the film etc.

Thousandthings,

Oh come now, even after only 39 posts you should be aware that there are several certified screwballs on this thread.

What are you surprised about?

Robert99

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Doing farm work I was rigging dynamite before I could drive a car... I learned the important differences in grades the hard way, when instead of loosening a stump for removal I turned it into half a ton of toothpicks and shattered all the west facing windows in the house.

OOOPS :$


Directing the blast is art & science. Lay a stick of dynamite on the driveway and set it off - all you have is a burn mark...lay a phone book on top of the stick, and you get a 3 foot hole in the concrete.

You can light dynamite on fire and it won't explode it just burns...and shooting it with a pistol to set it off is a Hollywood fantasy. Takes a somewhat faster & focused explosion to set it off - blasting caps work well by design but det-cord which burns at 20,000 FPS is quite effective and cheaper.

Fun stuff!;)




Indeed fun stuff ... gotta try the phone book thing...just looking for a concrete 3 foot concrete :P

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Thousandthings,

Oh come now, even after only 39 posts you should be aware that there are several certified screwballs on this thread.

What are you surprised about?

Robert99




Quote

....that there is one more ;)



Excellent! You're learning fast. There's hope yet for you.

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thousandthings

Quote


Doing farm work I was rigging dynamite before I could drive a car... I learned the important differences in grades the hard way, when instead of loosening a stump for removal I turned it into half a ton of toothpicks and shattered all the west facing windows in the house.

OOOPS :$


Directing the blast is art & science. Lay a stick of dynamite on the driveway and set it off - all you have is a burn mark...lay a phone book on top of the stick, and you get a 3 foot hole in the concrete.

You can light dynamite on fire and it won't explode it just burns...and shooting it with a pistol to set it off is a Hollywood fantasy. Takes a somewhat faster & focused explosion to set it off - blasting caps work well by design but det-cord which burns at 20,000 FPS is quite effective and cheaper.

Fun stuff!;)




Indeed fun stuff ... gotta try the phone book thing...just looking for a concrete 3 foot concrete :P


Keep in mind the stuff today is a lot different than the old daze...takes a lot less to do much more. It's not nitro anymore.

Interestingly enough...I'm told that for the most part the commercial stuff is stronger than the military grade.










~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

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"...Keep in mind the stuff today is a lot different than the old daze...takes a lot less to do much more. It's not nitro anymore.

Interestingly enough...I'm told that for the most part the commercial stuff is stronger than the military grade...."



I understand the Wehrmacht had the same problem in WW II at the Remagen Bridge. There was a mix-up between civilian dynamite and military grade and the sappers used the specs for the wrong stuff and when they blew the bridge it didn't have enough oomph. As a result, the 9th US Armored was able to get across.

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Time to step aside. The posting have gotten ridiculous. To think you Robt99 thought I was difficult. WELL, you got your hands full with this bunch.

377 & Airtwardo are still the only logic in the last several pages. I am not going to tutor those who have never read the history of Cooper, the books & news articles.

I have a lot on my table right now so I won't have time to even view the postings.

I expect by the time I can do so - this thing will be WAY out there. Too much fiction is being created about the FACTS of the case - the FACTS have been lost in the hype - but, the history is still there if anyone wants to read a few books & old media reports.

When JO gets fed up with the stories other shave made up - then maybe it is time to let go.

Robt I have my differences with you but, I am sure you will attest to the fact that NOW newbies & others are swallowing anything they are told...nothing being stated of recent even resembles the facts of the case.

Over the yrs I have spoke with key individuals in the investigation of the crime & all but one of the crew members. I understand why NONE of the want to be engaged by interviewers who have little or no knowledge of the crime.

Blevins & other have created a collage of things that do not even resemble the facts.

One can disagree with me, but most of what I know comes from the crew, Duane & the media sources at the time of the crime to include all of the book written.

Time to just let these guys hang themselves with all of this.

Please do not respond to me Robt 99 because this if the first time I have been completely discombottled as to how so many individuals can read & create false facts....Blevins has distorted the truths of the case too much.

The coin dynamite - well that just did the thread in. So many of us have spent yrs on this, but along comes a writer into this only to promote a book of fiction..

All that is left are newbies & the fiction writers who have destroyed the history of Cooper and the facts.

Blevins is out in left field and the thread is how he promotes his book and ridiculous ideas. I does not take a genius to figure how how he as used this thread and everyone in it..

I suggest the NEWBIES go back & read the entire thread....as for me I am tired & Robt 99 you need not make a reply - I won't be here to read it.

Just fed up even trying to keep the facts of the case clear to others - the thread has become a medium source for fiction writers & those too lazy to do the research....nor another avenue to advertise their wares.

Good night ~ . I HAVE a long hard road ahead of me - and I am 'ascarded' using Duane's word. We never know what tomorrow will bring.

Send your prayers & not the venom that is usually set aside for me by you..

I have spoke with every member of the crew with the exception of Florence & I would love more than anything to hear from her, but I understand her position.

What I am told - is different than what has been stated by others in the last few few yrs and I have recorded all that I was told - in the part of my body they call my memory.

Perhaps those memories will be all that I have & time is robbing me of some of those.

Good Night.
It is time and I am so afraid of what the future holds for me. So much is happening so fast - it is overwhelming.

Know this - I have told NO LIES. I am only guilty of getting caught up in the hypotheticals. Rob,. I know what saw in 1979 and in 2001 - so you cannot erase that memory. Why you would even want to do so is a puzzle.
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

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The issue of the bombs has a corresponding dynamic.

If the bomb was real, would that kind of person actually have a wife like Jo Weber, or a brother like Lyle Christiansen?

Or would they ever confess - to anyone?

With over 900 folks already confessing to being DB Cooper, it's clear a lot of people WANT to be DB Cooper. The reasons why people do that are unknown for certain, and as a result, it makes any confession suspect.

So, a good rule of thumb would be: if you think your guy made a dummy bomb, he ain't DB Cooper.

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"...I have spoke with ever member of the crew with the exception of Florence & I would love more than anything to hear from her, but I understand her position...."



So, what did they say?

1. Tina?

2. Alice?

I know that Lee Dormuth believes that your husband was DB Cooper. Isn't that enough satisfaction? Who else do you need to agree with you that Duane was DB Cooper.

Yes, I know that Billy says that Duane's ears were too big, but hey, his eyeballs were busy elsewhere, if you catch my drift....

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I understand the Wehrmacht had the same problem in WW II at the Remagen Bridge. There was a mix-up between civilian dynamite and military grade and the sappers used the specs for the wrong stuff and when they blew the bridge it didn't have enough oomph. As a result, the 9th US Armored was able to get across.



You may find this interesting~

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=2482853#2482853










~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

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airtwardo

Quote



I understand the Wehrmacht had the same problem in WW II at the Remagen Bridge. There was a mix-up between civilian dynamite and military grade and the sappers used the specs for the wrong stuff and when they blew the bridge it didn't have enough oomph. As a result, the 9th US Armored was able to get across.



You may find this interesting~

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=2482853#2482853





Thanks, T, I loved the story. And the pix. Your Dad still with us?

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BruceSmith

***

Quote



I understand the Wehrmacht had the same problem in WW II at the Remagen Bridge. There was a mix-up between civilian dynamite and military grade and the sappers used the specs for the wrong stuff and when they blew the bridge it didn't have enough oomph. As a result, the 9th US Armored was able to get across.



You may find this interesting~

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=2482853#2482853





Thanks, T, I loved the story. And the pix. Your Dad still with us?

No he passed a few days after I wrote that...going on nine years ago - - a little further in that thread I describe the funeral.

The 2nd page of the thread I tell about visiting the WWll memorial in D.C. a week after Dad was buried.










~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

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airtwardo

******

Quote



I understand the Wehrmacht had the same problem in WW II at the Remagen Bridge. There was a mix-up between civilian dynamite and military grade and the sappers used the specs for the wrong stuff and when they blew the bridge it didn't have enough oomph. As a result, the 9th US Armored was able to get across.



You may find this interesting~

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=2482853#2482853





Thanks, T, I loved the story. And the pix. Your Dad still with us?

No he passed a few days after I wrote that...going on nine years ago - - a little further in that thread I describe the funeral.

The 2nd page of the thread I tell about visiting the WWll memorial in D.C. a week after Dad was buried.

All blessings and thanks to you and your Dad.

My Dad passed in '07, and when your Dad was at the Rhine, mine was a little further north, in Belgium, fixing busted jeeps and other stuff. His aunt rode out the war in Brussels, keeping her mouth shut because she spoke her French with a New Jersey accent.

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airtwardo

Quote



I understand the Wehrmacht had the same problem in WW II at the Remagen Bridge. There was a mix-up between civilian dynamite and military grade and the sappers used the specs for the wrong stuff and when they blew the bridge it didn't have enough oomph. As a result, the 9th US Armored was able to get across.



You may find this interesting~

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=2482853#2482853



Indeed a good read ... RIP brave dad! :)

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Jo is the only one provided the with and without glasses by the FBI. They are high definition but, now the color is fading.

I have actual blown up copies that were made early on after I got them...in 1998. I can mail one to you Bruce, but will provide this to NO one else.

The one without Glasses is the best one and if you blow that up and one of Weber - you got a dead match - except for the nose.

The wide brimmed glasses is why the nose appears small. Cooper lowered his glasses or removed them only that one time as far as I know. That was to let Florence know he meant business & for her to READ the note.

Duane L. Weber was Dan Cooper!

I will be unable to mail a copy for several days. My computer is corrupted and all of the photos are showing the wrong colors and not the original state. I messed this up myself - but can't fix it.

You stated that Lee thought Weber was Cooper - WHY? I spoke to Lee only one time and that was long before I posted to this thread....When you appeared at their door - I only spoke to his wife. She had me hold on until Lee came back inside.

His remark to her "She's right" this was referencing you. We quickly said goodbye after she thanked me.
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

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Jo wrote:
Quote

Duane L. Weber was Dan Cooper!



You and BK sure think so, in spite of Z E R O evidence proving your contention. It's all hearsay, speculation and "poofed" physical evidence. Not one single piece of probative unambiguous physical evidence has been presented for examination. NWA ticket? Poof. Parachute hardware? Poof. Twenties? Poof. Parking ticket? Poof.

Too many treat the FBI sketches as if they were photographs of Cooper. I have seen sooooooo many instances where composite drawings put together by police from interviews with victims and witnesses turn out to look nothing like the real perpetrator.

READ THIS: http://www.innocenceproject.org/files/imported/eyewitness_id_report-4.pdf

Duane was an interesting character, I will certainly concede that point. I have seen NOTHING, however, which indicates that he was a participant in NORJACK.

377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

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