DB Cooper

[BruceSmith 3]

RobertMBlevins

Has Ramtha been shown pictures of Kenny Christiansen?

It is good to check with all sources.

I agree, Bobby. It may be time to ask the Big Guy to step into the Norjak investigation.

As for Kenny, I haven't shown his pix to Ramtha. Have you? That's more your department, don't you think?

[BruceSmith 3]

RobertMBlevins

******Has Ramtha been shown pictures of Kenny Christiansen?

It is good to check with all sources.

I agree, Bobby. It may be time to ask the Big Guy to step into the Norjak investigation.

As for Kenny, I haven't shown his pix to Ramtha. Have you? That's more your department, don't you think?

That was a joke. I don't believe in that stuff. Dowsing, maybe. People who can grab your hand and tell you all about yourself and sometimes your future...maybe. I draw the line at alternate beings or astral projection.

How about interdimensional traveling? Haven't you seen Interstellar?

It's the Future - Now, baby!

How about Heaven and Hell? Aren't those extra-dimensional realms beyond our earthly plane?

Maybe I should ask Tina to pay you a visit and set you straight!

[thousandthings 0]

***Maybe the Watergate guys teamed up with the folks who killed JFK, MLK, and Bobby Kennedy to pull off the hijacking...then used the Cooper ransom to pay off their lower-level minions...Smile



ROFL

[73blazer 0]

Wow...it's taken me a few months, but I finally got thru 2200+ pages of this thread and the previous. Lots of trials and tribulations and twists and turns and rabbit holes.

Anyway, I guess I don't have much to add, I'm a hard facts guy, so I guess thats to say, there's no suspect in my book. I think at this point, people's memories of 40 years past is clouded at best. That's not to discard anyone's opinions, Jo especially (after reading 2000+ pages, I fell like I know you, hope it's ok to call you Jo?).

I'm with safe, there's no possible way that money could have ended up in Tina (Tena) bar thru natural means, unless your willing to throw away the flight path completely. By my estimate, it would have had to be some 17 miles off, in the world of radar and flying airways (like V23)...1 mile would have been off, 2...would be way off, so, that's to say 8 deviations being generous there, in the world of science, if your looking at possibilities of 8 deviations away, your simply being foolish. (No, I'm not calling anyone foolish). Or, their jump time would have had to be considerably off, and being that they reproduced the flight, airstairs /pressure bump thing...I doubt they have that far off.
ANyway, IMHO, the money was moved. So, do I think he survived, perhaps. If the money was moved, who moved it. Cooper? Mabey, most likely. There are many possibilities here, but the most probable, the simplest, is Cooper moved it. It's also possible little Brian's dad found it days earlier, finally said...oh well this stuff ain't no good, but a bank isn't gonna replace it for me, unless...mabey if a kid finds it. Has anyone dug into Mr. Ingrams whereabouts in the days, weeks or months leading up to the find? See, there I go, down the rabbit hole. It's easy to do.

I guess I'm with the FBI, unless some hard evidence is to come up, bills, maybe the briefcase although I'm not sure that could be identified, the parachutes...something hard, this just isn't gonna get solved. People evidence might lead you to hard evidence, but at this point, the FBI can't put resources into rabbit holes and peoples memories for a 40 year old crime. I believe they've been burned on this with Marla. Hard evidence...tough to come by.

Where's that ticket your were once holding Jo!

My gut, even before I read the books, this thread, my gut which has served me well for years, says...Tina is the key. THere's something she knows, perhaps the FBI knows too. What happen in the 45 (by some estimates) minutes she was alone with Cooper. He wanted her to have some $$$. I think the whole money find on "Tina" bar (as the sign says, as most locals knew it at the time), yes we all know it's Tena bar, the original owner was Tena...perhaps there was a sign at some point in the 60's that said Tena...who knows...but what we do know is those rubber bands had a 1 year at most in the elements lifespan, I think Cooper planted the dough, notified Tina, and then Tina went into the convent. I feel bad for Tina, well, not bad, just a bummer this had to happen to her and by most accounts, seems to haunt her.

Anyway...hello...and good evening to you all.

[Robert99 37]

73blazer

Wow...it's taken me a few months, but I finally got thru 2200+ pages of this thread and the previous. Lots of trials and tribulations and twists and turns and rabbit holes.

Anyway, I guess I don't have much to add, I'm a hard facts guy, so I guess thats to say, there's no suspect in my book. I think at this point, people's memories of 40 years past is clouded at best. That's not to discard anyone's opinions, Jo especially (after reading 2000+ pages, I fell like I know you, hope it's ok to call you Jo?).

I'm with safe, there's no possible way that money could have ended up in Tina (Tena) bar thru natural means, unless your willing to throw away the flight path completely. By my estimate, it would have had to be some 17 miles off, in the world of radar and flying airways (like V23)...1 mile would have been off, 2...would be way off, so, that's to say 8 deviations being generous there, in the world of science, if your looking at possibilities of 8 deviations away, your simply being foolish. (No, I'm not calling anyone foolish). Or, their jump time would have had to be considerably off, and being that they reproduced the flight, airstairs /pressure bump thing...I doubt they have that far off.
ANyway, IMHO, the money was moved. So, do I think he survived, perhaps. If the money was moved, who moved it. Cooper? Mabey, most likely. There are many possibilities here, but the most probable, the simplest, is Cooper moved it. It's also possible little Brian's dad found it days earlier, finally said...oh well this stuff ain't no good, but a bank isn't gonna replace it for me, unless...mabey if a kid finds it. Has anyone dug into Mr. Ingrams whereabouts in the days, weeks or months leading up to the find? See, there I go, down the rabbit hole. It's easy to do.

I guess I'm with the FBI, unless some hard evidence is to come up, bills, maybe the briefcase although I'm not sure that could be identified, the parachutes...something hard, this just isn't gonna get solved. People evidence might lead you to hard evidence, but at this point, the FBI can't put resources into rabbit holes and peoples memories for a 40 year old crime. I believe they've been burned on this with Marla. Hard evidence...tough to come by.

Where's that ticket your were once holding Jo!

My gut, even before I read the books, this thread, my gut which has served me well for years, says...Tina is the key. THere's something she knows, perhaps the FBI knows too. What happen in the 45 (by some estimates) minutes she was alone with Cooper. He wanted her to have some $$$. I think the whole money find on "Tina" bar (as the sign says, as most locals knew it at the time), yes we all know it's Tena bar, the original owner was Tena...perhaps there was a sign at some point in the 60's that said Tena...who knows...but what we do know is those rubber bands had a 1 year at most in the elements lifespan, I think Cooper planted the dough, notified Tina, and then Tina went into the convent. I feel bad for Tina, well, not bad, just a bummer this had to happen to her and by most accounts, seems to haunt her.

Anyway...hello...and good evening to you all.

Welcome to the thread. We have been needing some fresh meat for the table.

Robert99

[BruceSmith 3]

73blazer

Wow...it's taken me a few months, but I finally got thru 2200+ pages of this thread and the previous. Lots of trials and tribulations and twists and turns and rabbit holes....

Anyway...hello...and good evening to you all.

Greetings Blaze - Welcome Aboard!

If and when you're ready to head over to the Mountain News for more DBC, let me know and I'll give you a guided tour.

[73blazer 0]

Well, if I'm to make a trek (I guess one should call it a pilgrimage at this point) out to the Northwest, I'll definitely do that!

I'd also love to make DB Cooper day at the Ariel store & Bar, I was just watching Blevins video of the 2012 event. But, if I were to do so, just for that, I think my wife would accuse me of being...something...I'm sure

I'm just sorry I didn't know who DB Cooper was in 1999 when I had to fly to Portland every week for 3 months for work, a customer was there.

[BruceSmith 3]

73blazer

Well, if I'm to make a trek (I guess one should call it a pilgrimage at this point) out to the Northwest, I'll definitely do that!

I'd also love to make DB Cooper day at the Ariel store & Bar, I was just watching Blevins video of the 2012 event. But, if I were to do so, just for that, I think my wife would accuse me of being...something...I'm sure

I'm just sorry I didn't know who DB Cooper was in 1999 when I had to fly to Portland every week for 3 months for work, a customer was there.

You don't have to sneak past your wifey, Blaze, you can simply click onto www.themountainnewswa.net. Many of my interviews with Norjak principals are there.

And you can see me in my Full Glory with Rataczak, Tina, Mitchell, Hayden, Himms, Lee Dormuth, etal. Afterwards you trade barbs with all the folks who think I'm a Bull in a China Shop, although I prefer to call myself a Prince Among Thieves....

,,,love to hear your POV on the feds. Are you a LE lover, or can you call a spade a spade?

[377 20]

Blevins opined

Quote

And that is against the Constitution my friends, since the law at that time was a 5-year statute on air piracy for EVERYONE. If Cooper were somehow brought to justice today, his lawyer would have a field day with a 14th Amendment defense. He would simply list case after case where the Statute of Limitations applied to other crimes investigated by the F.B.I. over the years...and then claim unequal protection for his client for being singled out with a John Doe warrant obtained at the last minute, simply to bypass the Statute. The prosecution's case wouldn't even make it to the jury.

Wrong Robert. Doe warrants have been litigated in the appellate courts and found to be legal. I agree with your logic though. It was unequal treatment.

Prosecuting Cooper now, in the absence of unambiguous evidence of guilt such as fingerprints that were found on the plane and linked to the skyjacker would be VERY difficult given the FBI's loss of the most probative physical evidence: Cooper's cigarette butts. They are potential exculpatory evidence and their loss would support a VERY strong motion to dismiss based on spoliation of material evidence.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[73blazer 0]

BruceSmith

You don't have to sneak past your wifey, Blaze, you can simply click onto www.themountainnewswa.net. Many of my interviews with Norjak principals are there.

And you can see me in my Full Glory with Rataczak, Tina, Mitchell, Hayden, Himms, Lee Dormuth, etal. Afterwards you trade barbs with all the folks who think I'm a Bull in a China Shop, although I prefer to call myself a Prince Among Thieves....

,,,love to hear your POV on the feds. Are you a LE lover, or can you call a spade a spade?

I've read probably most of what you've had written there, lots of info. I must admit, some of it I find...well, far reaching, alot of it is really good.

On the feds, well your statement implies it's a love or hate deal, that's not really the case. FOr the most part, by in large, I would say most investigations I read about that the FBI is involved with are on the up an up, they work hard, they get the evidence, to do the people and ground work, they analyze, develop profiles. And they get they're guy most of the time, sometimes not. Is this always the case where they work diligently, no, but most of the time that has to do with outside influences of a very large nature, things like our illustrious president with his pen and his phone, "national security" things. Now, I can't speak for what it was like in the 70's. Or early 80's for that matter. I mean, to not make a simple analysis like safe did with the water flows of all the rivers and tributaries in the area..and not consider the simple facts that only 3 bundles were found, together, right at the surface.... (yes, I'm aware of the chard's theory, but I don't think anyone's come forward to say, they found chard's all over the place, for what I've found in statements the "chard's" were very near the stacks). I dunno, for me, there's only one conclusion, it was not put there thru natural means. I think the feds botched some things about the money find for sure, they had a good chance at solving the case then IMHO. Losing the butts, botching the money find is sloppy. But, you can attribute those things to just plain they didn't really care, and didn't put the proper resources in place, even in 1980. It was a 8.5year old crime then, where nobody was murdered or raped, and they just didn't care. That's not to say the agents working the case didn't care, the FBI like anyplace, has budgets and managment has to decide where to assign resources, Cooper, wasn't it. Evidence lost, after 10,20,30,40 years (IIRC the last known location of the butts was sometime in the 90's?)...it happens, yeah it's sloppy, but when it sits around in a warehouse for decades, things get moved, reorganized, labels peel off...it happens, sloppy yes, but not outright deception or a cover up, which is what I think your saying with being a "spade"

Again here, you can say it's a "victimless crime" ... but Tina .. is the key. If she truly is distressed over the whole deal, she's the victim, she can say to the FBI, I'm the victim, who cares if it's 40 years old, you guys need to take this seriously and investigate credible leads. Make a serious investigation as to how money degrades in sand and water in bags and not in bags, pay a real hydroligist $5k to make an analysis of the areas flow (although I think safe did a pretty good job of this). Mabey Flo can same the same?

RobertMBlevins

One reason is because at the time of the Cooper hijacking, there was a five-year Statute of Limitations on air piracy. That was later changed

You've pushed this one pretty hard over the years I've noticed, and I'm not saying it's not possible. I personally, don't lay much credence to it. I mean, the FBI had said many many times, they felt he died, he died, he couldn't make the jump, was inexperienced.....if you've gotten away with it for that long, why risk giving them something to possibly go off of, revive the case...if your sole point is to re-direct attention away from you by doing it. To me, it's a direct conflict, re-direct attention away from me by calling attention to me thru reviving the case.

[sailshaw 0]

73blazer

You say: "I guess I'm with the FBI, unless some hard evidence is to come up, bills, maybe the briefcase although I'm not sure that could be identified, the parachutes...something hard, this just isn't gonna get solved. People evidence might lead you to hard evidence, but at this point, the FBI can't put resources into rabbit holes and peoples memories for a 40 year old crime. I believe they've been burned on this with Marla. Hard evidence...tough to come by."

I say: " The FBI has evidence in their hands that they have yet to look at that could solve this case quickly and at litttle cost. All they have to do is compare the DNA under the stamps and envelope flaps of the four letters sent to the news papers following NORJAK with what they have of Sheridan Peterson and they will find a match. That would disprove his phoney alibi that he was in Nepal at the time of NORJAK. That lie to the FBI could put him in jail for the rest of his life as he is 90 years old now. Release from that sentence in exchange for the DB Cooper story would finally solve the crime.

Bob Sailshaw
[email protected]

[73blazer 0]

RobertMBlevins

But if you don't believe the money washed down to where it was found, then how do you explain how it got there?

That's the million dollar question. I explain it by saying Cooper put it there, because he wanted Tina to have it. He didn't throw it away. He choose Tina bar as a easy point of reference for her to find it. Which also means, he notified Tina in some manner, mail, phone...who knows. The timing for this is spot on, as I recall, Tina went to the convent in late '79, which is also the most probable time the money was put there, as summer would be too risky, too many people , someone else would have found it.

[Robert99 37]

73blazer

***
But if you don't believe the money washed down to where it was found, then how do you explain how it got there?

That's the million dollar question. I explain it by saying Cooper put it there, because he wanted Tina to have it. He didn't throw it away. He choose Tina bar as a easy point of reference for her to find it. Which also means, he notified Tina in some manner, mail, phone...who knows. The timing for this is spot on, as I recall, Tina went to the convent in late '79, which is also the most probable time the money was put there, as summer would be too risky, too many people , someone else would have found it.

How do you explain away the fact that the money, which was found in 1980, was buried under flood waters and sand during the 79-80 winter? How was Tina suppose to find the money?

Further, some of the FBI agents, who actually did the digging at Tina Bar following the money find, have stated that there was a "field" of money fragments there.

This indicates that the entire money bag was probably at Tina Bar at one point. And that does NOT support a deliberate plant.

Blazer, the Devil is in the details.

Robert99

[73blazer 0]

Robert99

How do you explain away the fact that the money, which was found in 1980, was buried under flood waters and sand during the 79-80 winter? How was Tina suppose to find the money?

Further, some of the FBI agents, who actually did the digging at Tina Bar following the money find, have stated that there was a "field" of money fragments there.

This indicates that the entire money bag was probably at Tina Bar at one point. And that does NOT support a deliberate plant.

Blazer, the Devil is in the details.

Robert99

Tina was supposed to get the money with in a few days, or weeks of the plant, prior to winter for sure. I think the field of money thing is debatable. They were for sure combing the area and found various other stuff, and bagging it as evidence.. but I've not seen any statements saying there was more than the 3 bundles and small chard's in the immediate area of the bundles. There was one picture in this thread somewhere that showed all these trenches and one perhaps 8x8' area really dug up.

If what you say happened, for sure they're be more than 3 in tact bundles found. 3 nearly intact bundles and the rest 98% disintegrated into bits doesn't make sense either.

It's pure conjecture for sure, all the little nuances are debatable. I'd like to see statements from the FBI where they said they found money everywhere along the shore or in that area.

[Robert99 37]

73blazer

***

How do you explain away the fact that the money, which was found in 1980, was buried under flood waters and sand during the 79-80 winter? How was Tina suppose to find the money?

Further, some of the FBI agents, who actually did the digging at Tina Bar following the money find, have stated that there was a "field" of money fragments there.

This indicates that the entire money bag was probably at Tina Bar at one point. And that does NOT support a deliberate plant.

Blazer, the Devil is in the details.

Robert99

Tina was supposed to get the money with in a few days, or weeks of the plant, prior to winter for sure. I think the field of money thing is debatable. They were for sure combing the area and found various other stuff, and bagging it as evidence.. but I've not seen any statements saying there was more than the 3 bundles and small chard's in the immediate area of the bundles. There was one picture in this thread somewhere that showed all these trenches and one perhaps 8x8' area really dug up.

If what you say happened, for sure they're be more than 3 in tact bundles found. 3 nearly intact bundles and the rest 98% disintegrated into bits doesn't make sense either.

It's pure conjecture for sure, all the little nuances are debatable. I'd like to see statements from the FBI where they said they found money everywhere along the shore or in that area.

On the contrary, there is no guarantee at all that additional money bundles would be found intact. You should visit Tina Bar and take a look at the enormous erosion problem that exists there. It is probably only pure luck that any money, intact bundles or fragments, was found there.

The information from the first FBI agents on the scene at Tina Bar is not conjecture. Some of them have described what they found to another Cooper researcher. The researcher who talked to them can be found on Shutter's Cooper site. It might be informative for you to contact him.

Robert99

[skyjack71 0]

73blazer

You've pushed this one pretty hard over the years I've noticed, and I'm not saying it's not possible. I personally, don't lay much credence to it. I mean, the FBI had said many many times, they felt he died, he died, he couldn't make the jump, was inexperienced.....if you've gotten away with it for that long, why risk giving them something to possibly go off of, revive the case...if your sole point is to re-direct attention away from you by doing it. To me, it's a direct conflict, re-direct attention away from me by calling attention to me thru reviving the case.

Weber was in & out of prison for making that same mistake. Returning to the scene of the crime....when he stole a government check from one of the military wives - my thought is she should NOT have been in a bar with her husband overseas...she was showing no respect for her spouse.

Duane's eyes would dart from corner to corner everytime the took me to some place he had been before. Now I know another person was involved in some of the crimes Duane committed.

That one individual who is deceased and had a 'problem' told me about several of the incidents. The individual was a decent sort of person at the time I spoke with the indiviual...but showed no remorse for things that person participated in.

I did not spill the beans on the individual, but did tell the FBI they messed up when they did not allow me to have been a part of the visit made to the individual...wired.

The FBI gave the person a heads up they were coming & evidence was destroyed. Yet, after the fact when I pointed this out to the FBI they did not except that explanation.

The individual did not indicate Weber was Cooper & another individual I spoke to connected to this person claimed she knew Duane was Cooper.

One was an Alcoholic & died in 2004.
The other one was a drug addict who died earlier only after she told me she KNEW DUANE was Cooper. She told me she kept some things of his but they got left behind when she was fleeing a place & a man who supposedly was going to help her with her probablem and provided her with a job.

I tried to record some of these conversations - but only got parts of a couple...the gadgets I bought at radio shack just were not adequate & I did not have much of a recorder I could attach. All I had was basic telephone in those yr and all I have now.

Duane returned to the scene of the incident - & he planted money in more than one place. I didn't know what he was doing - I was ordered to stay in the car or he gave me a task to perform such as going to the vending machine at the Red Lion.

One off of a bridge coming over from Oregon to WA. He claimed it was candy wrapper - it flew like it had weight to it.

The next spot was his trip down the River at one of these spots. Topper Dr, Lieser Point and Image Ln. In 1979 there was NO house there and he went down to the river & told me to take a nap & stay in the car.

He came back up from the river with his snow shovel & something else in the other hand. I got out of the car that was on the side away from the river and asked if I could get out. In the mean time he popped the trunk & put something back in ..as I had only opened my door.

As we stand there he tells me the PDF is across the river and that he used to know someone who had a house at this location. There was NO building on the property in 1979.

Then he talked about the track and told me about the train going thru there very slow because of a switching station in Vancouver. Lots of bums jumped the trains at this point.

Beyond a berm to the north of us he stated there was a very nice subdivision & knew a man who used to live there.

NOT ONE TIME HAVE I EVER BEEN ABLE TO GET THE FBI OR ANYONE TO GO TO THE PROPERTY RECORDS & SEARCH THE NAMES OF THE PROPERTY OWNERS FOR THE WASHOUGAL RIVER DESIGNATIONS IN ANY OF THE 3 LOCATIONS.

If I lived there I could have done it myself. When I search locations in the Washougal area - an individual went far and beyond the position to answer my questions. They were using a new property records system & destroying pics of home that had once been in the sytem. She got lucky & found me the pic of a specific piece of property as it was in 1979 when I saw it.

The pic had been set to be destroyed.
A historical pic in my mind & her mind - but she was doing her job.

This is going to be the case with the Vancouver locations & NO ONE - would do it for me. Now the best one can expect is to find the recordings of the properties as they progressed over the yrs...no pictures just property information and the notations of property transfers...with pictures of current homes.

I want with all of my heart & soul to know the HISTORY of the properties at those three points going all the way back to 1948.

The next stop is Tena's bar & he goes behind a building along the river & then comes back up to the car. He carried no package or device I could see. His jacket had deep pockets.

When he got in the car he removed a paper sack from his side & set if by his right leg. I asked what it was & he told me it was just trash he was going to get rid of at the next spot.

The next spot is the Red Lion - he sends me to the vendor machines tell me exactly where they WHERE - HOW DID HE KNOW THAT!

He told me he would be around back.
When I got the snack and brought them to the river he was standing on a piling up high looking to the West. I asked what he was doing and he told me he was watching that bag going down the river...

NOTE: I am very protective of our waterways and I was all over him. He was far sited and I was near sited - but I could not see what was floating down the Washougal...

I was furious and check the trash BARRELS...and that is what they were in 1979 - barrels that had been painted with no lid.

ALL of THEM were EMPTY - and he knew he was going to CATCH it! No trash to be thrown into a river or out of a car window.

Too much pain to continue to do this, but I felt this needed to be stated ONE more time.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[skyjack71 0]

73blazer

***
But if you don't believe the money washed down to where it was found, then how do you explain how it got there?

That's the million dollar question. I explain it by saying Cooper put it there, because he wanted Tina to have it. He didn't throw it away. He chose Tina bar as a easy point of reference for her to find it. Which also means, he notified Tina in some manner, mail, phone...who knows. The timing for this is spot on, as I recall, Tina went to the convent in late '79, which is also the most probable time the money was put there, as summer would be too risky, too many people , someone else would have found it.

I feel like you are telling my story from the perspective of an observer & yet I have NO idea who you are.

When we were in the Washougal area Duane mentioned knowing a woman who lived in Gresham, but I did not ask any questions & if I did - I have long forgotten them. (edit - I do remember he told me she was a stewardess). That was in my early communications with the FBI.

It was not until 1980 after they found the money- it came out that Tina Mucklow lived in Gresham....but I only saw that one article & ( any specific knowledge of the incident would come only after I learned that D.B. Cooper was Dan Cooper in 1996).

In 1980 after the money find Duane left CO leaving me with a senior in High School & did NOT let me know his location, address or contact information for all most 3 months.

He would call me - and remember in 1980 we didn't have caller ID and I still do not.

Duane went so far as to prevent me from seeing a special on Cooper on America 's Most Wanted after the money find. I remember my disappointment in his making arrangements with another couple to go out that night....this was right after the money find.

In all of our marriage this was one of 2 times he made such arrangements. I apologized for being such poor company as there was something on TV I wanted to see....Duane could NOT allow me to see that program, because he knew I would remember the things he told me & I would realize the money was found in a place he took me to in Late Sept or Early Oct of 1979.

Our life went on & I forgot about Cooper. I was never one to dwelled on the past....Remember it was one yr and 3 months after his death in 1995 that I found out the name Dan was the name used on the plane. That was when I contacted the FBI. So much I told to Mr. Himmelsbach as he was the person I spoke with most of the time.

The FBI was alway curt and did not engage me - I trusted Mr. H to relay the information to the FBI for me.

Remember I did NOT have a computer until 2000...so the only things I knew about Cooper was what was in a book of fiction by Max Gunther prior to that date. Max and I exchange many phone call and letters which I still have.

Someone mailed me a book or just put iit in my mail box - Ha Ha Ha by D.B. Cooper - I never knew the benefactor. I had the envelope for a long time but when I remarried and moved - that went by the way side.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[skyjack71 0]

73blazer

***
But if you don't believe the money washed down to where it was found, then how do you explain how it got there?

That's the million dollar question. I explain it by saying Cooper put it there, because he wanted Tina to have it. He didn't throw it away. He choose Tina bar as a easy point of reference for her to find it. Which also means, he notified Tina in some manner, mail, phone...who knows. The timing for this is spot on, as I recall, Tina went to the convent in late '79, which is also the most probable time the money was put there, as summer would be too risky, too many people , someone else would have found it.

I disgree that he contacted her, but the name was significant & perhaps it was his message - to let her know he was OK & was still alive or to make it appear he perished in the incident.

My daughters appearance & Tina's are so damn similar it is spooky. Even her recent pictures - those 2 could have been sisters.

I have alway felt Tina held back on her knowledge of Cooper. Her words to me
"Cooper was a very SAD man"....therefore Cooper had to have said something that indicated he was SAD.

I will always believe that Tina & Cooper exchanged information never made public or revealed by Tina. Tina even in her fear reached out to Cooper & he never ever forgot it nor did he forget her face & features. They were imbedded in his mind, because if he died the last face he would ever see was the that of Tina.

My heart and imagination tell me this is true...he found that image in my daughter - absolutely a great father - the greatest. Tina is much older than my daughter, but the appearance even as they aged - they could have been sisters.

Maybe I just have a vivid imagination - but, my guts tells me I am right...my heart tells me they connected on that night of Nov 1995 & that she alone changed one man's life forever.

He continued to GIVE to those in need thru out his life...something changed this multi time criminal in to a hardworking honest businessman...& it was not just age or illness as someone at one time maintained.

It was a deeper drive - much deeper.
Maybe because he had lived the life & knew what it was like to be an ex-con trying to make a living or a young man on the run with no funds for food.

Duane got arrested for stealing food.
Ironic...."feed a man & give him hope, but do not make him dependent on you" and do not make him dependent on hand outs. Teach him how to survive.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[skyjack71 0]

Robert99

On the contrary, there is no guarantee at all that additional money bundles would be found intact. You should visit Tina Bar and take a look at the enormous erosion problem that exists there. It is probably only pure luck that any money, intact bundles or fragments, was found there.

The information from the first FBI agents on the scene at Tina Bar is not conjecture. Some of them have described what they found to another Cooper researcher. The researcher who talked to them can be found on Shutter's Cooper site. It might be informative for you to contact him.

Robert99

Robert99 - you were NOT on that beach in 1979 / 1980. I have noted you guys have never ACKNOWLEGED the big flood in 1977/1978. NOT one time. The money was deposited AFTER that flood. Nor have you mentioned the other flooding between 1971 and 1979.

A lot of the erosion has happened over the yrs. but you would claim it happened in a few short months...and, you proclaim RESEARCHERS are on that other site.

Those researchers are individuals like yourself with opinions - NONE of them including the geologist lived in the area & or worked in the are & knew the waters sources & how they have changed over the last 100 yrs.

You seemingly forget that WA has a unique geographic phenomena not addressed by these so called researchers. DUH!
Only one of them is actually capable or has the knowledge. His presence & experience with the State of WA is limited. His participation is that place is non-existent - has he ever made one post to that site?

His speciality was animals & deserts not rivers.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[73blazer 0]

skyjack71

I feel like you are telling my story from the perspective of an observer & yet I have NO idea who you are.

It means, you've been successful. People understand. I understand. My name is Ken. Kenneth Snyder. Really, I'm a nobody.

I'm still with my gut that Tina is the key, she was contacted by Copper. But, I have 0 to back that up. Like I said originally, hard evidence is the only thing that will bring this to a close. Which brings me back to trying analyze what little hard evidence there is.

[73blazer 0]

Ha, I just noticed I said Copper when I meant Cooper. I guess it's the Michigan in me. The UP is after all the Copper Country.

[Robert99 37]

skyjack71

***

On the contrary, there is no guarantee at all that additional money bundles would be found intact. You should visit Tina Bar and take a look at the enormous erosion problem that exists there. It is probably only pure luck that any money, intact bundles or fragments, was found there.

The information from the first FBI agents on the scene at Tina Bar is not conjecture. Some of them have described what they found to another Cooper researcher. The researcher who talked to them can be found on Shutter's Cooper site. It might be informative for you to contact him.

Robert99

Robert99 - you were NOT on that beach in 1979 / 1980. I have noted you guys have never ACKNOWLEGED the big flood in 1977/1978. NOT one time. The money was deposited AFTER that flood. Nor have you mentioned the other flooding between 1971 and 1979.

A lot of the erosion has happened over the yrs. but you would claim it happened in a few short months...and, you proclaim RESEARCHERS are on that other site.

Those researchers are individuals like yourself with opinions - NONE of them including the geologist lived in the area & or worked in the are & knew the waters sources & how they have changed over the last 100 yrs.

You seemingly forget that WA has a unique geographic phenomena not addressed by these so called researchers. DUH!
Only one of them is actually capable or has the knowledge. His presence & experience with the State of WA is limited. His participation is that place is non-existent - has he ever made one post to that site?

His speciality was animals & deserts not rivers.

Jo, The above is just more of your customary nonsense. If you had bothered to read a few messages prior to the one included above, you would understand that the poster I replied to suggested that the money was planted at Tina Bar in 1979 before being found in 1980. You have made similar claims about Duane planting the money in 1979.

Flooding of the Columbia River is an annual event. The water sources a century ago are not relevant. It is what they were in late 1971 through the money find date in 1980 that matters.

Your claim that certain researchers don't know anything about the Columbia River is laughable. You claim to have spent a few days in Washington State in 1979 and seem to feel that makes you an expert. Assuming that you even visited Washington State in 1979, where did your information on the Columbia River come from?

A long, long time ago, I lived in Washington State and on a river that flowed into the Columbia River about 3 or 4 miles away. So frankly, I feel that I have quite a bit more knowledge of and experience with the Columbia and other Washington State rivers than even the all-knowing Jo Weber.

You claim that "WA has a unique geographic phenomena" that is not addressed by researchers who don't support your claims. Do you actually know what you are talking about? If not, just guess. What is this unique "phenomena"?

Robert99

[BruceSmith 3]

73blazer

Ha, I just noticed I said Copper when I meant Cooper. I guess it's the Michigan in me. The UP is after all the Copper Country.

Yo, Blaze, I just saw a documentary on the copper in the UP - 1-1.5 billion tons was taken out in pre-Columbian times!

Any ideas? What do the locals say?

The show I watched was "America Unearthed" and starred Scott Somebody.

[73blazer 0]

The locals say, how much more copper do you want?! Please buy from us. Re-open our mines.

I'd say, most likely true. I've seen some of those documentary's. Copper was damn near on the surface around there way back when. It shined and gleamed. It was a natural draw, for everyone, Indians, politicians, industrialists... It is an area rich in Copper history to say the least. I love it in the Keweenaw. I can't say I'm educated much in pre-columbian times, but in the 1800's....it was a driving force of the USA.

[skyjack71 0]

Quote

Jo, The above is just more of your customary nonsense. If you had bothered to read a few messages prior to the one included above, you would understand that the poster I replied to suggested that the money was planted at Tina Bar in 1979 before being found in 1980. You have made similar claims about Duane planting the money in 1979.

Your claim that certain researchers don't know anything about the Columbia River is laughable. You claim to have spent a few days in Washington State in 1979 and seem to feel that makes you an expert. Assuming that you even visited Washington State in 1979, where did your information on the Columbia River come from?

I am no expert and you know that. I definitely was in WA in 1979. A company called Family Life Insurance had its home office located there & Duane Weber worked & retired from that company although the service was broken.

Since I do not read much of what is being said on that thread - I had no idea they were finally entertaining the idea that the money had been planted in 1979.

I also do not always go back & read anything other than a couple of post back in this one. I no longer have the time & stamina to do so.

What I know is what Duane told me & showed me - & conversations that took place in my presence. Duane did talk about the area - it was like he was home.

Most of what I know is from what he told me and what I witnessed in 1979.

He talked about the Dams & the construction of the dams - he referred to "We" or "the Guys" and a relative who worked on the Dams. He explained all of the towers & damn how they worked. Duane's knowlege of the area I didn't understand, but just did not question it. I knew nothing about his past or his family.

We stopped at a museum along the river near one of the Dams - I could not remember what he said at this point. When I went out there in 2000 I went to that museum & it brought back the memories of what he said.

The woman tried to help me find certain books - but, I didn't know what I was looking for. Evidently Duane's pic was somewhere in that museum or in a book - but, I never found it...I didn't have enough money to stay to continue to search & I had no idea what part of his life he spent there or what he looked like at that time in his life.

Duane had an extensive history in WA & I have found little of it I can document...knowing where a shoe store was in a little town for example.
Knowing his way around without one time looking at a map. All of the things he told me about the Boys & the Guys & what they did. His knowledge was specific but, someone has tried to erase his footprints - but they are still there. The are imbedded in my mind & I would give anything in the world to have all of the answers about that past.

I could care less if they proved or disproved he was Cooper - just to know more about this amazing man I was married to. Dirty Rotten Criminal as Mr. H always calls him.

What has made it amazing is the transition he made during his life - it took a lot of discipline to not talk about his life & the prisons - but, who can gage the force of Love.

Looking back - this is a LOVE story as much as it is a search for the truth. Two unlikely individuals & one with a secret life. How or why we ended up to gether - I will never understand...

I sometimes feel like I was his shield, but what happened is that he actually ended up in a solid relationship. Remember when he met me he was very interested in my maiden name. My grandfather's name was the same as his alias ....John Collins. I would not know this until after his death - when the man who bought the van brought the other wallet & ID's to me...in 1995.

Duane explained in detail how the Dams worked & how the power was generated - and referred to 'The Guys" and "The Boys" - he used the terms interchange-ably. He explained the VOR and his working there with the BOYS.

Remember what I told about my father when he took us on trips - he would quiz us when we got home. That is why I focused on the things Duane told me...and I did ask questions.

My father believed the best education his children could get was to experience it....every trip was a learning experience we often got quizzed on later. We did not make it to WA as my mother was pregant with her 4th child, but not her last child!

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber