DB Cooper

[BruceSmith 3]

Today is a good day to be a Seahawks fan.

Whew.

And I only went over to my neighbor's to see the game at halftime because it started at noon, Pacific Time, Ug.

It was my first NFL game drinking coffee, eating bananas and taking my BP meds....

...but clearly my presence made a difference. Some days it's worth getting out of bed!

[Robert99 37]

377

Quote

R99 Replies:

The Cooper vane applies only to the Boeing 727 and no other aircraft.

The ex SAS DC 9-21 (owned by the Perris Valley DZ in CA) that I jumped out of in 2006 had a Cooper Vane but it didn't stop us from jumping as the airstairs had been removed for the jump flights. I took a close-up photo of the Cooper Vane and have it somewhere.

377

The article from Wikipedia that 377 quotes (in the next message following the one quoted above) has three references which cannot be accessed from the Internet. Thus, the information cannot be independently verified easily.

On August 11, 2011, Farflung (#25726 & 25731), 377 (#25730), and Georger (#25740), and other posts, discussed the subject of the Cooper vane.

Farflung could not find any FAA directive mandating that the Cooper vane be installed on 727s.

377 has personal knowledge of such a vane being installed on an ex-SAS DC9-21 which is now owned and operated by USA citizens.

Georger states that Boeing personnel have informed him that the Cooper vane for the 727 was their idea and was eventually approved by the FAA.

Consequently, there does not seem to be any directive, either manufacturer's or FAA's, that mandates the installation of a Cooper vane on USA registered DC-9/MD-80 series aircraft.

The Wikipedia article states that some airlines simply sealed the rear aft stairs and never used them again.

From personal experience, the last time I remember using the aft stairs on any airliner was in the early 1980s and it was an MD-80 series aircraft.

It looks like the Cooper vane does not have any final definitive information on its installation and use requirements.

Robert99

[ParrotheadVol 70]

BruceSmith

Another Public Service Announcement and Quiz

Parrot Man at the Shutter site raises an interesting point about the FBI. In one of his comments he says, "The FBI are not dummies."

Hence, the question: What are the FBI? If not "dummies," then how can the FBI in the Norjak investigation be best described?

Here are your choices:

1. Unlucky.

2. Solid, but they need more resources, another 1,000 agents and $100 million should do it.

3. Top-notch, but some crimes are just unsolvable.

4. Federal bureaucracies are like women: hard to manage, never on time, and rarely get the job done. But they look good doing whatever it is that they do.

5. Okay as cops, but they need more time because DB Cooper is a complicate case with multiple jurisdictions, no hard evidence, etc....

6. Sloppy at times, but basically decent.

7. Better than NCIS!

8. Left-wing, pinko, liberal Democrat crap like Prince Bruce have NO IDEA about the FBI and shouldn't even be asking this question.

Sorry Mr. Bruce, I wasn't ignoring your poll, but my new work schedule has left me with less time to hang out here at the DZ. Keep in mind that my comment about the FBI not being dumb was a present tense comment about how they would respond to any new circumstantial evidence being presented on known "suspects". I have had interactions with the FBI in the past and anticipate more in the future. I can assure you they are not dummies. However, in 1971, I was 5 years old and probably couldn't even spell FBI. So, I can't really attest to their intellect at that time. I would however go with unlucky and somewhat sloppy, a combo of option 1 & 6. I do agree with Blevins that some crimes are unsolvable, but I don't think the Cooper case falls into that category. At least it didn't at the time, it may very well be unsolvable at this late hour.

"They were saying he was never gonna make it now, now that daylight had set in. But later that night, they were shining those lights back down on that mountain again." - Todd Snider

[ParrotheadVol 70]

RobertMBlevins

Actually, I've done the email and phone call thing with FBI agents in Seattle several times over the years. I even got to speak in-person to Bob Fuhrman for about an hour. He was the agent who assisted in interviewing the witnesses who deplaned in Seattle. Unlike some of you, he thought my point about finding at least three bundles of the Tena Bar cash in the same exact spot MILES from the flight path was significant. He also told me no one had thought of this as being important when they investigated the money find. But he did...once I pointed out that these bundles would have had to be roped together or tied with little strings so they wouldn't get separated for this to happen. Surprised?

Robert, the point you make about the bundles was discussed on this very forum by Larry Carr long before you ever spoke to Bob Fuhrman. So, he may not have ever thought of that being important, but others obviously did. The proof is in this very thread.

"They were saying he was never gonna make it now, now that daylight had set in. But later that night, they were shining those lights back down on that mountain again." - Todd Snider

[ParrotheadVol 70]

Robert, you said this:

Unlike some of you, he thought my point about finding at least three bundles of the Tena Bar cash in the same exact spot MILES from the flight path was significant. He also told me no one had thought of this as being important when they investigated the money find. But he did...once I pointed out that these bundles would have had to be roped together or tied with little strings so they wouldn't get separated for this to happen. Surprised?


In 2007, on the first DB Cooper forum, Larry Carr said the following:

"There were multiple bundles recovered under 3 to 6 inches of sand, just at the waters edge (according to the Ingrams) no bricks of money. I found reference to four bundles, of which the rubber bands were still around them, there were 290 20's. I can't imagine the bundles broke from the bag and entered the river at some other location and then multiple bundles land at the same beach several miles down stream. Once in the flow of the river there would be nothing to keep the bundles together to allow several of them to land at the same beach. "

So, this proves that someone with the FBI was aware that those stacks of money could not have arrived at Tena Bar independent of each other. It was not you that originally came to that conclusion.

"They were saying he was never gonna make it now, now that daylight had set in. But later that night, they were shining those lights back down on that mountain again." - Todd Snider

[ParrotheadVol 70]

Sometimes people lie just to lie. No motivation needed. I used to date a girl once upon a time who was a smoker. I didn't mind her smoking, but she told me she was going to quit. She did this just so she could lie about not doing it. She always lied about insignificant things. I never understood why. She just loved to lie, it made her happy.

"They were saying he was never gonna make it now, now that daylight had set in. But later that night, they were shining those lights back down on that mountain again." - Todd Snider

[377 20]

Jo wrote

Quote

Well, sir you have not researched the history of Duane's family I presented.
Duane's brother had the schematic of the 727 in his home...I know others have claimed that was not true...

Interestingly the "schematic" doesn't tell you enough to know if a 727 stair jump is feasible.

Take a look: https://sites.google.com/site/boeing727172airstairs/

To REALLY know you'd have to have access to the Boeing flight tests that were made on behalf of a government customer.

Sheridan Peterson might have had access since he worked in technical documentation at Boeing, a job he took after being unable to get 727 airstair info from his landlord Sailshaw.

Sailshaw was a Boeing engineer who worked on the 737 airstair, a side deployed system used by Alaska Airlines and not at all practical for jumping.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[BruceSmith 3]

Quote

"...Guess that proves I'm just as smart as some FBI agents. One thing's for sure.
I don't like it when people lie to me. When they do that, I am going to find out their motivation on why.
Funny thing, though. When I brought up this point originally on the Tena Bar money, people blasted me to no end. Turns out the FBI was thinking the same thing all along..."

Bobby, have you ever been to T-Bar? Just askin'.

Wonderin' too how come you misspell it.

[skyjack71 0]

377

Jo wrote

Quote

Well, sir you have not researched the history of Duane's family I presented.
Duane's brother had the schematic of the 727 in his home...I know others have claimed that was not true...

To REALLY know you'd have to have access to the Boeing flight tests that were made on behalf of a government customer.

377

377 Duane's brother was with Boeing and he was an engineer and his friend was Stanley Gilliam who did some testing of some sort regarding Boeing.

That is the extent of what I know about what John told me. He used the words schematics....this was in the developement stage when Duane was using his wife to pick him up at the local bar and borrowed her car. John was not happy about all of this.

If you look up John Claudia Weber or maybe it was Claudian John Weber perhaps you can find out what his status was with Boeing and during the war. Perhaps that will explain why members of Duane's family were at the opening presentation of the Boeing 727.

I have not only Duane telling me this but also his brother. John divorced that first wife and then he remarried a wonderful woman.

I do not know when he divorced one or when he married the other.
I did not have enough information back then to ask John the right questions...and when I did he was having hearing problems and why it was so important to him that he meet me in 2004 when my then current husband I went to Loma Linda for the proton radiation treatments which BOUGHT him 2 more good yrs. Then when it came back he was gone withing a yr or so.

Don't know the exact dates but Jim died in 2007. Such a short time with a wonderful man who fought a great battle with cancer.

We had 7 yrs together and Duane and I had 17 yrs not counting the 9 months were just together.

With Duane and I it started on my birthday and it was magic.

Not sure I have the yrs right above, but not feeling well and very tired.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[skyjack71 0]

Tena's bar versus Tina's bar. I heard a story about the sign having been misspelled, but do not remember which came first.

In one book it written up as Tena's bar and it was not till we started this thread that it became Tina's bar. Someone at one time offered the story as one of the Fazio's told it.

It was not something I felt I needed to know - I just call it Tena's bar because that is what for some reason sticks out in my mind.

Perhaps a map with Tena's bar on it in one of the books or a new article.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[BruceSmith 3]

Quote

*Can't say I've ever been there. I don't think it matters much whether Tena or Tina is used..."

It matters to me. The Tena canard could be a misdirect or a spin job.

Why doesn't that matter to you?

[skyjack71 0]

The Dr.s must have communicated.
My family Dr. ordered a mamogram today & got it scheduled for Friday & I have Blood test on Monday. I am redoing my will tomorrow.

When I got home the gastro office had called....how the hell am I supposed to do a colonoscopy with a cast on my hand. They are moving very fast....too fast.

My hand will be in a hard cast for 2 wks. I do not know how I can handle all of this.

2 of the procedures scheduled require the provider of the transportation to stay with me until the procedures is completed and then to drive me home. Why would someone have to stay during a procedure that has no say if anything goes wrong?

They also scheduled a mamogram and the pre-opts. Really surprised they are moving so fast.

It is overwhelming right now.

My car is 14 yrs old.

Tomorrow I need to get the oil changed and see my attorney.

So much so fast & I expect it will get worse. I am trying to find sources that are not so expensive.

I had been trying to get the house ready for the market - but that keeps getting delayed. A reverse mortgage is not an option because that would only tie me to the area & I do not want to be here....as I have NO family who can be here for me.

I am rejecting my own hair & a problem with my eyes. Flashes of lightning bolts & now a lump on my cheek not to mention other lumps that come and go and they are painful. The flushings are bad and the rashes unrelenting. One would think I was on chemo...but, I am not.

Testing was done last yr for the light flashes & a brain scan was done - guess they wanted to see if I had a brain. The test result was weird as the Dr. said what do they mean - "Not to be confused with true pathology"....that was on a Brain MRI.
In the middle of all of this I have to have new glasses & can't find a frame that fits my weird face that will accomdate tri-focals. My old frame is falling apart.

Well, that will be the last update you guys get until I know what the hell is wrong...remember my blood work has shown Mono for 3 yrs now, but I had no symptoms of it until after the last surgery & an incident with a bloody needle.

17 days later I couldn't put one foot in front of the other the fatigue was so bad. The blood work was not norma,l but has at least stayed about the same other than the RISE in the cancer markers...

Lyme's disease in 1977
Rabies shots in 2004
Bloody needle in 2012

Lots of dental work from
1999 to 2006...often wondered
what kind of materials he use for
the cores because it was in 2004 things got so bad. I have heard a rumor about some dentist cutting
corners & using a core and other materials that are toxic, but never found anything on the computer about it.

Right now I think they are looking at lymphoma. I just know I hurt and I have lumps that move around & some that stay localized....not to mention the horrid rashs & constant flushing.

Hell, I am just looking for a reason for all of the symptoms collectively. The worse & most pointed epidsodes came after the rabies series....The vacine in part of what I recieve was in a re-call batch...but they never told me why the batch was recalled in 2004.

Got 6 shots the first night & then a series of shots for wks after that. The batch the health dept used was not the recalled drug, the first shots they could not verify the batch....it was a hurricane. 3 bats captured & tested the yr before --- 2 were rabid. The recall was not made public until 3/4 months later.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[sailshaw 0]

377

You say"Sheridan Peterson might have had access since he worked in technical documentation at Boeing, a job he took after being unable to get 727 airstair info from his landlord Sailshaw."

I say Sheridan knew about the 727 aft airstair test rig in the old B-29 hanger on the East side of Boeing field. Ir was part of the 727 FCTR Flight Control Test Rig and was fully functional and available to anyone with a Boeing badge like Sheridan had. I know I told him about the test rig as he was quite interested in the 727 airstairs

Bob Sailshaw
[email protected]

[matthewcline 0]

57, 000~ posts, and this thread still talks about none suspects, and debunked theory and conspiracy.

It is good training material for any one going into the mental health area though.

Matt

An Instructors first concern is student safety.
So, start being safe, first!!!

[Robert99 37]

matthewcline

57, 000~ posts, and this thread still talks about none suspects, and debunked theory and conspiracy.

It is good training material for any one going into the mental health area though.

Matt

An excellent observation. There will probably be several PhD Dissertations written by mental health professionals who use this thread as their major research source.

Robert99

[BruceSmith 3]

Robert99

***57, 000~ posts, and this thread still talks about none suspects, and debunked theory and conspiracy.

It is good training material for any one going into the mental health area though.

Matt

An excellent observation. There will probably be several PhD Dissertations written by mental health professionals who use this thread as their major research source.

Robert99

Some of the themes they might want to develop:

1. 922 confessions
2. 1,100 suspects and a sizeable number were submitted by spouses or lovers who wanted to get rid of an ex.
3. Marla's love life
4. Jo's two-million words posted here - what keeps that girl going?
5. The Vortex
6. Did DB Cooper really escape by traveling to the future, and who thinks so?
7. Cooper came from the future to do the hijacking, then went back; his time-jumping was a gambit by Goldman Sachs to explore the futures market.

[377 20]

sailshaw

377

You say"Sheridan Peterson might have had access since he worked in technical documentation at Boeing, a job he took after being unable to get 727 airstair info from his landlord Sailshaw."

I say Sheridan knew about the 727 aft airstair test rig in the old B-29 hanger on the East side of Boeing field. Ir was part of the 727 FCTR Flight Control Test Rig and was fully functional and available to anyone with a Boeing badge like Sheridan had. I know I told him about the test rig as he was quite interested in the 727 airstairs

Bob Sailshaw
[email protected]

The B 29 Building 727 airstair rig wouldn't tell you if you could open it in flight without upsetting aircraft flight characteristics. I think the only definitive answer was contained in the records of the flight tests. Sheridan probably could have accessed those easily given the nature of his job in tech documentation.

I had a nice cheer package for Sheridan this Christmas but he wouldn't answer any emails seeking a delivery address. I was passing through Windsor after Christmas and had hoped to deliver it in person. I promised no Norjack interrogation and I keep my promises. I ended up giving it to a local homeless guy I help out. He really appreciated it.

I'd love to talk to Sheridan and just get his opinions about Norjack and who could have done it if it wasn't him. He is an old man and isn't well. Time is running out for any interview chances.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[377 20]

Bruce wrote:

Quote

Did DB Cooper really escape by traveling to the future, and who thinks so?

Only one person in the VORTEX thinks that's even possible.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[Robert99 37]

377

Bruce wrote:

Quote

Did DB Cooper really escape by traveling to the future, and who thinks so?

Only one person in the VORTEX thinks that's even possible.

377

377, Bruce may be on to something here. It is certainly no more outrageous than some of the things proposed by this thread's "two most prominent posters".

Robert99

[Robert99 37]

BruceSmith

******57, 000~ posts, and this thread still talks about none suspects, and debunked theory and conspiracy.

It is good training material for any one going into the mental health area though.

Matt

An excellent observation. There will probably be several PhD Dissertations written by mental health professionals who use this thread as their major research source.

Robert99

Some of the themes they might want to develop:

1. 922 confessions
2. 1,100 suspects and a sizeable number were submitted by spouses or lovers who wanted to get rid of an ex.
3. Marla's love life
4. Jo's two-million words posted here - what keeps that girl going?
5. The Vortex
6. Did DB Cooper really escape by traveling to the future, and who thinks so?
7. Cooper came from the future to do the hijacking, then went back; his time-jumping was a gambit by Goldman Sachs to explore the futures market.

Bruce, It is slightly off-topic, but the mental help people who also have an interest in economics might consider how the efforts of a certain poster to sell books, screenplays, and anything else to make a buck on this thread turned out. And did Blevins report his profits, if any, to the IRS?

Robert99

[MarkBennett 5]

377

Bruce wrote:

Quote

Did DB Cooper really escape by traveling to the future, and who thinks so?

Only one person in the VORTEX thinks that's even possible.

377

I disagree...time travel to the future has always been possible. Sure, it took me 43 years to time travel from November 1971 to now. But, gosh darn it, I did it!

[skyjack71 0]

MarkBennett

***Bruce wrote:

Quote

Did DB Cooper really escape by traveling to the future, and who thinks so?

Only one person in the VORTEX thinks that's even possible.

377

I disagree...time travel to the future has always been possible. Sure, it took me 43 years to time travel from November 1971 to now. But, gosh darn it, I did it!


Ditto that!

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[skyjack71 0]

I need all of the of the GOOD vibes I can get at this time. So much stress.
I still think it is ridiculous that someone had to STAY during the procedure that has NO authority to make decisions....so I Pay for the transport to and from and the heaviest expense is the person to remain.

But I did find a reasonable service that will not break the bank. I live over an hour from the facility and the transport to and from the procedure I understand, but NO senior without a spouse or advocate in this area should have to pay an addition $20 per hour for someone to sit in the waiting room. Transport to and from the procedure I understand.

At any rate I hope the surgery was not cancelled. My family physician called me at my home tonight and told me to call the Surgeon tomorrow.

The family physcian knows this surgery needs to be done as the lesion is enlarging and there are now 2 more.

Won't know now till in the morning if the surgery has been cancled or confirmed. What a stressful wk I have had....so very very tired.

All of that work to find a service & now the surgery is in question. Won't know till in the morning.

Going to bed as I feel very tired & anxious.

The Colonscopy is also being schedule as soon as the cast is removed from my hand & the biopsy results in.

Family Dr ordered a mammogram for friday, but I hope the surgeon is also going to require a test on my heart to make sure I am ok in that department. I think what I am feeling is stress - but they need to be sure.

Not sticking around tonight & I would appreciate it if Bruce would stop his far out postings - he lives in the VORTEX whatever that is.

Jo is not selling a book or writing a book or doing a movie deal - just seeking the truth regarding a man she spent over 17 yrs with and told things and shown things that were NOT common knowledge in 1995, not to mention the people I met that were part of history.

I did not know at the time I was experiencing a part of history and that the individuals I met were part of history.

The things he told me & showed me in WA in 1979 and his action immediately after the money was found are suspect - he disappears for over 2 months & I did not even know where he was. He called me and in 1979 we had not caller ID.

God, I really wish I had never found out who Dan Cooper was - it has destroyed all that my life could have been...I have never been able to walk away - because of things I knew & the things he told me....things no one knew....things that were in no articles regarding Cooper.

I have not fabricated the things he told me - things NO one could have known if they had not been Cooper or an accomplice.

No one cares, but me - & I hope like Chris told me - that when he gets "there" Duane will be waiting for him & he will say "You really did it." Then he will see that familar grin.

I do not have his faith & everytime I think about his I start to cry. I need answers NOW, not after I am dead - I need them now.

Damn the FBI & damn the Government & damn all of their Secrets.

What is going on in the US & the world - I never thought I would live to see all of the corruption that has occurred in the last 20 yrs. America is broken & I do not believe anyone person can put it back together.

God, help the generations - my children & grandchildern & great grandchildren. Everything is a BIG MESS!

Glad I won't be here - I am almost 3 quarters of a century old...God, help the the generations who will follow.

Goodnight....I just feel so very very tired & tired of fighting this corrupt government & damn their secrets.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[BruceSmith 3]

Quote

Bruce, It is slightly off-topic, but the mental help people who also have an interest in economics might consider how the efforts of a certain poster to sell books, screenplays, and anything else to make a buck on this thread turned out. And did Blevins report his profits, if any, to the IRS?

Robert99

Robert99, I think this is more up Jo's alley as she is in charge of criminal investigations at the DZ.

I'm strictly in charge of surveys and quizzes.

[BruceSmith 3]

RobertMBlevins

******57, 000~ posts, and this thread still talks about none suspects, and debunked theory and conspiracy.

It is good training material for any one going into the mental health area though.

Matt

An excellent observation. There will probably be several PhD Dissertations written by mental health professionals who use this thread as their major research source.

Robert99

Nothing like popping by Dropzone all the time...not to discuss Cooper...but to trash either the thread itself, or other users. You haven't had a good word to say about anyone here...or contributed a SINGLE Cooper-related thing here in MONTHS. You are supposedly doing all this research. Haven't seen a single word about it. So...then why are you here?


You first, Sir Robert.