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DB Cooper

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Robert99


Jo, You don't understand how the Air Traffic Control system operates. On the flight to Reno, the Portland Airport would not be contacted by the airliner which was under direct control of the Seattle ATC Center. Portland was NOT involved.
Robert99



DO you know how the Air Traffic Control worked in 1971 under the circumstances given? NO you don't, you were NOT there. How many time does one have to explain WA was having some air traffic problems at the time & why the guys were on loan from Atlanta's ATC

This has been completely ignored with statements such as the statements you have repeatedly made...BUT, there was a CIRCUMSTANCE going on and that changed everything.

The communications with Portland are VERY necessary NOT for me but for someone like you to understand that what was happening in 1971 was NOT ordinary circumstances. WA had ATC problems and this was a SKYJACKING - If the plane was NOT talking to Portland - then PORTLAND was definitely listening and they were transcribing! Since the plane was almost on top of Portland and with a BOMB on it - you know what I am telling is true.

ALL ears were on that plane!
The Crew had been instructed to do what they needed to do...and the crew did just that. You do know they were hoping to come in over Portland PDX and/or a near the Airport with enough visibility to determine if Cooper WAS gone.

None of the so called sitings were verified by the FBI.

You do know that in 1971 adjacent and South of the Trout Airport was an area that was used by jumpers?
I think the crew was doing all they could to provide Cooper a way to exit that plane.

All the crew wanted was for Cooper to get off that plane - and they did everything they could do to make that happen. They knew Cooper would not jump over Portland and that he had planned to jump relatively quickly.

Why the hell would Cooper wait until he knew he was over Portland or the river? Too populated! As the plane made an Eastward adjustment... Coop jumped shortly after that little Eastward adjustment...just what he needed with the wind factor. The co-pilot was a jumper himself - he knew how to accomodate Cooper off of that plane.

Gone Poof or Ignored!

REMEMBER THEY HAD NO KNOWLEDGE IF THE PLANE COULD BE FLOWN WITH THE AFT STAIRS DOWN....FOR ANY LENGTH OF TIME.
AND THERE AS ALSO THE FEAR OF LANDING WITH THE AFT DOWN,

There were a LOT of unknowns in this skyjacking.

Wonder if the FBI checked out the ATC's on loan to WA during that time to see HOW many of them had jumping experience.

Great combination - jumper and ATC. These guys certainly didn't like the idea they could NOT get Life insurance outside of what their employment offered other than a supplemental with an outrageous price on it.

Because of the product of a company Duane worked for - he had lots of contacts with ATCs and SKYJUMPERs. WHY did the FBI just ignore Weber and his background.

Did the FBI actually check Weber's background after finding he was an excon. Did they NOT think it ODD this EX-CON sold insurance - you can't be an excon and hold an insurance license.

PERHAPS the FBI didn't train their agents very well?

The company was pointed out & by the existence of the rental left at the airport - but SUPPOSEDLY this was checked out and they simply stated it was a business out of the S.E. WHAT business?????

A company connected to Weber's prior employment - but the FBI ignored this!

Just to much!
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

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***. And if you read the radio transcripts while the airliner was on the ground in Seattle, you would have noted that the crew was interested in not flying over populated areas with a bomb on board.[/quote "Robert99]

Jo writes:

Jo has a story to tell!

:)
R99 replies:

Jo, the Federal Air Regulations plainly state that the pilot is the final authority for the operation of his aircraft. The FBI, NWA, and FAA may "suggest" or "recommend" a certain course of action but the pilot decides if he is going to do that. To repeat, just like a ship's captain, the pilot of the aircraft is the SOLE and FINAL authority as to the operation of that aircraft.

Jo writes:

The final decision was made in the AIR and under pressure. They did what the had to do - and you do KNOW they tried to stay a direct path for the PDX - hoping by then it would be obvious Cooper was gone....none of them knew what to expect...this skyjacking was not like any the FAA had experienced before.

R99 replies:

Jo, you have no basis for the above statements. You are putting words in other people's mouth.

Jo writes:

The decision to by pass Portland was Made in the AIR and by the CREW...because they were NOT sure if Cooper was gone and if he was gone was the BOMB still on the plane? East of Portland - there were NO high rises or condensed populated area - EAST of Portland.

R99 replies:

The bypass decision had nothing to do with whether Cooper had jumped or not. Since the airliner was almost 10,000 feet higher than Portland, high rise buildings were not a factor. The area west of Portland was sparsely populated in 1971. Bypassing on the east side of Portland would add about 15 miles and 5 minutes to the flight path which would have shown up in the data. It does not.

Jo writes:

Also note that right before they turned slightly East into the wind...to facilitate getting Cooper off the plane as quickly as possible.

R99 replies:

Jo, the winds aloft were from the Southwest, not the East. And the winds aloft did not have anything to do with Cooper getting off the plane.

There is nothing to support the rest of your claims in your post.

Robert99

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***
Jo, You don't understand how the Air Traffic Control system operates. On the flight to Reno, the Portland Airport would not be contacted by the airliner which was under direct control of the Seattle ATC Center. Portland was NOT involved.
Robert99[/quote "Robert99"]

Jo writes:

DO you know how the Air Traffic Control worked in 1971 under the circumstances given? NO you don't, you were NOT there. How many time does one have to explain WA was having some air traffic problems at the time & why the guys were on loan from Atlanta's ATC

R99 replies:

Jo, You are just blowing more smoke. In 1971, I was an active pilot. The US Air Traffic Control system is highly standardized. It doesn't make any difference where the controllers were from. They would be trained and certified to meet the Seattle ATC standards. And there is nothing to support you claim of air traffic control problems in Seattle in the first place.

Jo writes:

The communications with Portland are VERY necessary NOT for me but for someone like you to understand that what was happening in 1971 was NOT ordinary circumstances.

R99 replies:

There is no evidence of any communications between Portland and the airliner when it was headed for
Reno. I think it is self-evident that the hijacking of an airliner is not ordinary circumstances.

Jo writes:

The Crew had been instructed to do what they needed to do...and the crew did just that. You do know they were hoping to come in over Portland PDX and/or a near by Airport with enough visibility to determine if Cooper WAS gone.

R99 replies:

Jo, you have got to be kidding about the above claims. You are just blowing more smoke. There is basis for such claims. This is just another Jo Weber fantasy.

The rest of Jo's post is still more nonsense which has been addressed a few posts back.

Robert99

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Quote

The Federal Air Regulations plainly state that the pilot is the final authority for the operation of his aircraft. To repeat, just like a ship's captain, the pilot of the aircraft is the SOLE and FINAL authority as to the operation of that aircraft.



Isn't that what I have been saying? Why do you think the crew - Pilot and Co-Pilot did NOT utilize this standard?

I have basis for my statement below:

"The final decision was made in the AIR and under pressure. They did what the had to do - and you do KNOW they tried to stay a direct path for the PDX - hoping by then it would be obvious Cooper was gone....none of them knew what to expect...this skyjacking was not like any the FAA had experienced before".

Pick up the phone or arrange for all of the crew to be sequestered for a new briefing. Remember I DID have a discussion with the Pilot before he died! He was very nice considering his own circumstances...and I spoke with his wife after he died - to offer condolences.

I still have the notes I took during my conversation with the pilot. Wish I had know then what I know now - so many questions unanswered because I didn't know what to ask.

The ONLY one left with the truths regarding what happened on the plane is the Co-pilot.



]
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

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RobertMBlevins

Robert99 says in part:

***'Your comments on the so-called FBI map are meaningless. Do you have any information that the flight path on that map even represents the hijacked airliner? How about showing some proof for once...'



You should be going to the Seattle FBI and asking them about this alleged path. This is a sort of baseline point here. Ask yourself (and them) why they continue to make that map available on their website as the 'flight path map' if it is not anything of the sort.

[The rest of Blevins post has been deleted as irrelevant.]

Blevins, instead of pontificating about what other people should do, do your own homework.

Take a look at the things related to Cooper in the FBI's "vault" which is accessible on their web page. Do you actually believe that the FBI is going to attest to the accuracy of everything that is in that vault?

Robert99

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RobertMBlevins

***R99, your theory is at least possible and believable. Unlike any theory requiring a plant.



R99 should have contacted Bill Rataczak on this theory long ago. This isn't a question that requires much research, or a re-writing of reality. The co-pilot would know the truth.

FYI: Rataczak told Skipp Porteous in a phone interview that he does research (even today) on the Cooper case. He has notes, files, etc. He was THERE. I think the most basic question, i.e. 'where was the flight while it was still north of Vancouver' is one Rataczak could answer easily.

Why don't you just ask him if you have some questions?

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Robert99



You should be going to the Seattle FBI and asking them about this alleged path. This is a sort of baseline point here. Ask yourself (and them) why they continue to make that map available on their website as the 'flight path map' if it is not anything of the sort.

Take a look at the things related to Cooper in the FBI's "vault" which is accessible on their web page. Do you actually believe that the FBI is going to attest to the accuracy of everything that is in that vault?

Robert99




I will answer that ONE for everyone.
NO the FBI cannot ATTEST to the accuracy of that Web site.

Some of the information was supplied by a former agents & inaccurate. Also the providers of the information & those who write the information make changes and /or their interpretations.

Do they have a map on there with the word NO written on it? The map with "NO" written is NOT the actual map used by the FBI in 1971. I know how and when and who created that map.
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

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skyjack71

***

You should be going to the Seattle FBI and asking them about this alleged path. This is a sort of baseline point here. Ask yourself (and them) why they continue to make that map available on their website as the 'flight path map' if it is not anything of the sort.

Take a look at the things related to Cooper in the FBI's "vault" which is accessible on their web page. Do you actually believe that the FBI is going to attest to the accuracy of everything that is in that vault?

Robert99




I will answer that ONE for everyone.
NO the FBI cannot ATTEST to the accuracy of that Web site.

Some of that was supplied by a former agents is inaccurate. Also the providers of the information & those who write the information make changes and /or their interpertations of what is being presented.

Do they have a map on there with the word NO written on it - well any map with NO written is NOT the actual map used by the FBI. I know how and when that NO got on that map.

Jo, Please make an effort to get your quotes right.

The first paragraph you quote above was actually from Blevins. The second paragraph is from me.

Robert99

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RobertMBlevins



My homework? YOU'RE the one who thinks the map is inaccurate, in your attempts to move the flight over Tina Bar to explain the money. You've had quite a bit to say on that. This is no problem, but I'm surprised you haven't gone to Rataczak on this question long ago. I never had a doubt the flight missed Tina Bar by miles, so any homework would not be mine. I'm simply asking the question YOU should have asked when you came up with that idea. It's almost as if you are afraid of what Bill Rataczak will tell you. Fortunately, I have no such fear.



Blevins, You are the one who claims the FBI map is accurate. So where is your EVIDENCE, not SPECULATIONS, to support your claim?

Here's how things work in the real world. You claim the map is correct, then you produce some facts to support your claim. You haven't done a single thing to show that the map is real.

My statements that the maps shown as depicting the flight path are nonsense were first made in 2009. At the same time, I posted some numbers on Sluggo's web page to support my statements. This was about a year before you joined this thread.

I'm sure that you have that information, and everything else on Sluggo's web page, on your computer so it should not be a big job to take a look at it.

Robert99

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RobertMBlevins

******

My homework? YOU'RE the one who thinks the map is inaccurate, in your attempts to move the flight over Tina Bar to explain the money. You've had quite a bit to say on that. This is no problem, but I'm surprised you haven't gone to Rataczak on this question long ago. I never had a doubt the flight missed Tina Bar by miles, so any homework would not be mine. I'm simply asking the question YOU should have asked when you came up with that idea. It's almost as if you are afraid of what Bill Rataczak will tell you. Fortunately, I have no such fear.



Blevins, You are the one who claims the FBI map is accurate. So where is your EVIDENCE, not SPECULATIONS, to support your claim?

Here's how things work in the real world. You claim the map is correct, then you produce some facts to support your claim. You haven't done a single thing to show that the map is real.

My statements that the maps shown as depicting the flight path are nonsense were first made in 2009. At the same time, I posted some numbers on Sluggo's web page to support my statements. This was about a year before you joined this thread.

I'm sure that you have that information, and everything else on Sluggo's web page, on your computer so it should not be a big job to take a look at it.

Robert99

I'm not trying to pass the buck. There is the map. Then there is you saying it is wrong. Special Agent Larry Carr is the person who provided that map on request. He was a former Cooper case agent.

What will be your response if Bill Rataczak says the flight was just east of Vancouver as it approached that city, and was never over the Tina Bar area?

My response would be to ask him what he was doing "east of Vancouver" as you put it.

What will your response be if Rataczak says the flight bypassed Portland on the west side?

Actually, your response would be that is impossible since KC was still breathing at 8:30 PM PST on November 24, 1971, and in all probability DB Cooper wasn't.

Robert99

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Robert99

***. And if you read the radio transcripts while the airliner was on the ground in Seattle, you would have noted that the crew was interested in not flying over populated areas with a bomb on board.[/quote "Robert99]

Jo writes:

Jo has a story to tell!

:)
R99 replies:

Jo, the Federal Air Regulations plainly state that the pilot is the final authority for the operation of his aircraft. The FBI, NWA, and FAA may "suggest" or "recommend" a certain course of action but the pilot decides if he is going to do that. To repeat, just like a ship's captain, the pilot of the aircraft is the SOLE and FINAL authority as to the operation of that aircraft.

Jo writes:

The final decision was made in the AIR and under pressure. They did what the had to do - and you do KNOW they tried to stay a direct path for the PDX - hoping by then it would be obvious Cooper was gone....none of them knew what to expect...this skyjacking was not like any the FAA had experienced before.

R99 replies:

Jo, you have no basis for the above statements. You are putting words in other people's mouth.

Jo writes:

The decision to by pass Portland was Made in the AIR and by the CREW...because they were NOT sure if Cooper was gone and if he was gone was the BOMB still on the plane? East of Portland - there were NO high rises or condensed populated area - EAST of Portland.

R99 replies:

The bypass decision had nothing to do with whether Cooper had jumped or not. Since the airliner was almost 10,000 feet higher than Portland, high rise buildings were not a factor. The area west of Portland was sparsely populated in 1971. Bypassing on the east side of Portland would add about 15 miles and 5 minutes to the flight path which would have shown up in the data. It does not.

Jo writes:
I am talking about Cooper possibly landing in Portland with the wind drift. If the wind was taking him East - Cooper and a bomb could have landed in the Portland suburbs. The co-pilot was a jumper - he knew this.

R99 replies:

Jo, the winds aloft were from the Southwest, not the East. And the winds aloft did not have anything to do with Cooper getting off the plane.

Jo Adds:
- I got my directions mixed up in the posting. I know the direction of the wind. Was just me being tired and trying to get across what I was trying to say in laymans terms.

There is nothing to support the rest of your claims in your post.

Robert99



There is MORE than enough to support this - go a back and read the corrections I made...above.
The wind would have carried Cooper to the EAST.
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

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Robert99

******

You should be going to the Seattle FBI and asking them about this alleged path. This is a sort of baseline point here. Ask yourself (and them) why they continue to make that map available on their website as the 'flight path map' if it is not anything of the sort.

Take a look at the things related to Cooper in the FBI's "vault" which is accessible on their web page. Do you actually believe that the FBI is going to attest to the accuracy of everything that is in that vault?

Robert99




I will answer that ONE for everyone.
NO the FBI cannot ATTEST to the accuracy of that Web site.

Some of that was supplied by a former agents is inaccurate. Also the providers of the information & those who write the information make changes and /or their interpertations of what is being presented.

Do they have a map on there with the word NO written on it - well any map with NO written is NOT the actual map used by the FBI. I know how and when that NO got on that map.

Jo, Please make an effort to get your quotes right.

The first paragraph you quote above was actually from Blevins. The second paragraph is from me.

Robert99

Go back and look yourself - the quote thing is not working in the thread. It is not working the way it used to...it was simple and now it is complicated or I have aged 10 yrs in the last few pages.
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Robert99



Blevins, You are the one who claims the FBI map is accurate. So where is your EVIDENCE, not SPECULATIONS, to support your claim?

Here's how things work in the real world. You claim the map is correct, then you produce some facts to support your claim. You haven't done a single thing to show that the map is real.

My statements that the maps shown as depicting the flight path are nonsense were first made in 2009. At the same time, I posted some numbers on Sluggo's web page to support my statements. This was about a year before you joined this thread.

I'm sure that you have that information, and everything else on Sluggo's web page, on your computer so it should not be a big job to take a look at it.

Robert99



NOW Robert99 - you and I are on the same page! THIS is what I have tried to say....that map was created and I know who created it and who wrote the "NO" on it! I think you also know who created that particular map...with the "NO" on it, but do you know who wrote the "NO" on it? I do! If you have PM's open I will explain to you the origin of the map and the NO.

As for the thread - let them figure it out....I have known about this since its orientation in this thread and someone using the WRONG map. That map with the NO on it had some adjustments made to it, but for some reason it has been carried thru this thread for yrs as the official map.

I have what was known as the official map, but the disk will not open it in anything I have...others I sent it to also cannot open it. Comes up stating Corrupted!
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

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It was essential the plane get Cooper and his BOMB into a less potentially disastrous situation. The co-pilot and pilot did what they had to do - with or without permission....

They knew the direction of the wind and they wanted Cooper off of that plane, but NOT into a heavily populated area. Think about this and think like the co-pilot and pilot had to think....think about the what ifs!
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Remember the communications just before Cooper supposedly was last contacted?

Maybe everything was NOT ok? Maybe the reply Cooper made sound agitated & threatening? I believe the transcripts were cleaned up just a tad by omission.

This is when the pilot made a slight turn to the South East and it was at this time Cooper actually jumped. This is when they felt sure Cooper was gone....but what if he was still on the airway and what would happen when Cooper and the bomb hit the ground.

If you were the pilot - would you not have headed for less densely populated areas? Would you not have been prepared for the worse case senario? Appease Cooper make it easy for him. Remember that the co-pilot and his wife were accomplished jumpers.

What would your gut reaction have been....or would you only have considered the plane & the crew? What about those on the ground in the locations Cooper might land in?

Would you NOT have accommodated Cooper for the safety of the above stated reasons?

Perhaps there is a communication never made public - indicating Cooper's aggitation - or just the tone of his voice. Did Cooper make a demand or threat never revealed?

If Cooper had any doubt regarding his abilities to survive - could he have been suicidal? Did he threaten to blow the bomb then and there? What did the co-pilot do?

I know what I would have done.
I would have accommodated Cooper - helped him get off that plane in a not so densely populated area & have kept my mouth shut. Just a slight deviation and enough slant to get Cooper off the aft stairs in an area less likely to harm others on the ground.[:/]:|

:o

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The LAST perported communication by Cooper - what was the location using real time and the actual coordinations at that moment? What was the location of the Swoosh and rebound - What was the coordinations seconds before the rebound. Then factor in the wind and where would that put Cooper on the ground....?

The wind and the speed of the plane then are factored in just after that little curtsey! How far East did Cooper drift and did the wind push him North & East or South of that location? How far was he off his targeted area.

Maybe he didn't have a plan - maybe he expected to die.

The ticket was dry & unstained.
The wallet was old and the imprints of prior ID imbedded in the leather with heat and time. Dry Rot. Was some discoloration - powdery looking which could have been mold, but very little.

The wallet is dark brown Genuine Ostrich.
I never revealed this before -

National Rifle Ass. of America ID
336 467518 7721 44 68 4
John C. Collins
3467 W. Ada Place
Denver, Colorado

Citizens & Peoples National Bank of Pensacola saftey deposit box opened 2/26/90 for Duane L. Weber - this was just weeks before he went POOF for 3 days! The actual John Carson Collins drivers licenses he had acquired on Mar, 8, 1990 with a false ID -

He was picked up about 2 days after he obtained this license as he had been Pic Id'ed & followed after having tried to obtain such a license in another county earlier that same day.

He lost the tail and did acquire the license on that same day.

Then the authorities show up at the shop - regarding the attempt to purchase a license in the other county with the same false ID.

BUT he had already done the JOB...he just had to be sure the Deputies did NOT discover this.

They didn't! A couple of wks later he makes a trip to Omaha with the John Collins ID & retrives the contents of a safe Deposit box under that name.

End of STORY? - Even the authorities did NOT uncover the fact he actually did obtained that license - & yet the application & the receipt & the license was IN the Wallet found in the Van....the contents of which I made available to the FBI.

A 70 yr old terminaly ill patient on the kidney machine outwitted the authorities. He had already committed the deed (he had his John Collins ID) & the locals nor the FBI could figure this out...all of the documentation was in the old wallet....didn't they make copies of it - I sent them copies - why didn't they check it out?

Unbelievable! Well, he actually did it!

Stupid Dumb Crook - not hardly!
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

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Blevins writes:

Nice dodge. But we weren't talking about Kenny Christiansen, were we? You reached for that because you have NO ANSWER.

R99 replies:

Blevins, You are ALWAYS talking about KC even if you don't mention him. Even if you would like to disassociate yourself from him at this point, KC is your only interest and your KC story (which is pure bunk in the first place) falls apart if the airliner overflies Tina Bar.

Blevins writes:

Rataczak might tell you something like this:

Quote

'Because I was on the flight deck. Because I was there...'



R99 replies:

Rataczak also might tell me that the airliner overflew Tina Bar or even that shrimp whistle. Hypotheticals are hypotheticals.

Blevins writes:

According to the map provided by Special Agent Larry Carr, there is a line showing that Flight 305 was on the east side of the interstate at all times while it was between Olympia and just a bit north of Vancouver. Which means they didn't go over Tina Bar. The question I asked about it is legitimate. What makes YOU right, and Larry Carr wrong?

R99 replies:

Blevins, have you seen Larry Carr's description of the maps in a YouTube video? You need to see that video and then re-read your claims above. If you need a link to the video say so and I will post it. But you probably already have the link.

Blevins writes:

I would like to hear Rataczak's imput on all this. There is nothing wrong with that. You start grabbing for KC references because you are afraid Rataczak might give the 'wrong' answer and negate your Tina Bar Overflight theory. Since you are the proponent of this theory (and who knows, you could be RIGHT), then you should have tried to verify this through Rataczak clear back in 2009, correct? We're not talking about bypassing Portland on the west side. Even the map shows the flight turned to the SW, but NOT UNTIL IT REACHED THE VANCOUVER AREA.

R99 replies:

Blevins, your hyper-sensitivity about KC is showing. That is probably a direct result of not having a single thing to back up your claims about KC being Cooper.

Read the following very carefully and remember it if you can since I am getting tired of having to repeat this for your benefit. UNDER THE CIRCUMSTANCES THEN EXISTING, NO PILOT WOULD HAVE FLOWN THAT SEGMENTED ARC AROUND THE WEST SIDE OF PORTLAND THAT IS SHOWN ON THOSE MAPS.

Robert99

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I see there is a lot of talk about chatting with Rataczak to clarify where 305 was when Cooper jumped.

That might be useful, but I also think it would be worthwhile to review what has already been revealed by the principals.

1. Rataczak told me he did know where 305 was when DBC jumped. Later in our 70-minute phone conversation he said that 305 was east of V-23 by a couple miles due to the wind.

2. Himmelsbach told me that Rataczak told him that 305 was over the Washougal.

3. Mrs. Cooper says that Rataczak told her that he could see the lights of Vancouver to the right. Not sure what that means. It sounds like perfect Jo Weber haze. But it could very well be V-23-ish, too.

4. Calame and Rhodes say that Scott told the folks at Himms' retirement party in 1980 that 305 was west of V-23 and over Woodland, WA.

5. Larry says V-23 All the Way to Red Bluff, CA!

6. Marianne Lincoln of Shady Acres Airport in Spanaway, WA says that the transmission from Seattle Center she heard were reporting east of V-23 to Gresham and then up the Columbia River Gorge.

7. Multiple eye witnesses allegedly report that they saw a burning object descend from a low-flying aircraft just west of the I-5 bridge over the Columbia, just about the time that 305 passed over the area.

So, what does this mishigas tell us about Norjak? It's just what the FBI likes for public consumption - perfectly mucked up or just another day in the Cooper Vortex?

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Robert per your bashing of Duane I would think you supported the Westwardly route!

Yet, you do NOT support the route that I have maintained which is the other side of Portland.

:)
Was Cooper a mirage?
Did the crew imagined Cooper & did I imagined the things Weber told me?

I think Robt99 you need to go visit the co-pilot & hope that he is still sound of mind...he is the only one left with the answers, but he has been jerked around so much I doubt he still remembers the small details.

I have told the story as best as I can and done all I can to fill in the blanks. I do have documentation of most things I have stated. NO one heard Duane's confession, but me!

Much of what I TRIED to tell I did not & still do not understand.
I was not able to afford to pay someone to do the research I & others along with the DZ have done over the last 18 yrs, but I tried. I gave it all I had and more....

I should have walked away yrs ago, but that is just not my nature. At 74 yrs of age - your time & quality of life on this earth becomes limited especially when your health declines.

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There are plenty of new people to the DZ, and I thought it might be fun to present another Cooper Quiz to get the newbies up to speed:


1. What is PDX?
2. Who is Twisty Butt?
3. Two individuals have directly confessed to being DB Cooper. Who are they?
4. How many people have allegedly confessed to being DB Cooper?
5. Who is the “most promising” suspect, according to the FBI?
6. What did Brian Ingram and his family do immediately after finding the $5,800?
7. What was wrapped around a magnum of champagne the night that Jo met Duane?
8. What is “Into the Blast” reportedly called at FBI HQ in Seattle?
9. Who was the original case officer for Norjak?
10. Can you name any "near confessions" as claimed by family members?


Answers:
1. Portland International Airport, where Norjak started.
2. Marla Cooper, as coined by Jo Weber here at the DZ.
3. Duane Weber and Barb Dayton
4. 922
5. LD Cooper
6. The Ingrams went looking for more money, digging up the beach. They found nothing.
7. $100 bill.
8. Into the Trash
9. Charlie Farrell
10. Kenny Christiansen, Wolfgang Gossett,

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skyjack71





He encited me last night & I had taken my medication - but, instead of signing off & going to bed - I blew off at him with a long non comprehensive post.



:)
NOTE: What the co-pilot stated per my notes

1. Could see the haze of Vancouver to his right.

2. Stayed away from Portland to keep away from populated areas.

The map as publicized to the WEST shows the plane over a MAJOR developement of low income workers in the Portland area.

They were told to stay out of populated areas - in 1971 the East route was farms and open spaces - not wet lands and condensed low income housing as existed on the West side. (Regardless of the arguement you guys have stated in the past - the EAST side was less populated and with more open spaces to divert in the event of a disastor.)

The plane took an eastward turn using the logic they were asked to use...staying out of populated areas - just encase. The co-pilot made the judgement call he was trained to make.

An emergency landing west of Portland would have been impossible in 1971...if it occurred just as they crossed the Columbia.

An emergency landing or crash or explosion East of Portland was without the insurmountable destruction of homes and lives....

The West route was too CLOSE to Portland to be feasible - the crew did the right thing and did what they were told to do - used their own judgement.

Maybe there was some other protocol like COMMON SENSE. In 1971 there were NO tall buildings along the East side and the population was sparse - some developement, but still lots of open space if the pilot was able to have any control over the plane at all.

Remember there was supposedly a bomb on that plane....they didn't know how much destruction might occur if Cooper used his BOMB!

The crew knew if the bomb blew they would not survive - but they had to think about what was BELOW them....this was discussed.

Someone earlier disclaimed all of this - but ALL you need is a map from 1968 of Portland & surrounding area - with streets as compared to how it looks today and how it looked in 1979....MAJOR developement occurred during those yrs...major!

I was personally there in 1979 - remember....NONE of those shopping centers were there in mass as they are now. There was subdivisions in the contructional phase - but plenty open land. Most of what I could see was off the highway until we got further West...then we turned and went East and did a cut back, because Duane wanted to take another route rather than continue South down the highway.

At the point of that turn - that was the most condensed area we had been in along that highway.

NOTE: Duane did NOT need a map and when he made that turn we had to make another turn to reach the area he wanted to get to...but he needed NO map...that area was established....he commented about their CHANGING the light - DAMN I just REMEMBERED that!
Goose Bumps!
Now a tear - How in God's name did I remember that & do not believe have not told it before.

From the time we entered the interstate highway from the road going East out of Portland the population and construction was sparse - until we approached the area I have describes above...I lost some maps in WA in 2010 - they may have been left in Bruce's truck or in one of the rooms or the vehicle rental.

Now back to the co-pilot and the route:

Back to WA and the flight!

The little hesitation the plane made when the aft stairs sprang back was just as he made his turn and may be why he noted the haze....but they could NOT be sure if Cooper was gone.

They were concerned about flying with the door open even when they felt sure Cooper was gone...and what if he left the bomb on board? There were many things going thru their minds - but the most important thing was to stay a course that would cause less harm to others if the plane blew.

Permission to do what was necessary! I am sure at this point in time they were more occupied with safety than their exact position.

What the "experts" ignore is something came up missing... what came up missing had to do with the transcription between PDF and the plane. NO ONE knows what happened to them - NO ONE!

I was many yrs ago able to talk to one gentleman there who talked to me off the record - because they were under ORDERS not to discuss this. He told me about the missing transcripts out of the Portland tower - IT was a manual transcript - and for some reason the file was removed from there.

Now why there was a manual transcript? I did NOT understand - but remember I really had little knowledge of the crime & less about airports & planes - but the man knew who I was & felt I needed to know. For some reason. He had felt it was something they should keep - but, it went POOF!

Not what he said - POOF is my wording.


Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

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I know you are the voice of reason, but I believe the money was found on Tena or Tina bar while Tina was living nearby;
What if Cooper got fixated on Tina? He tried to give her money on the plane. Would he send her a love message?
194,200 +5800
rearrange numbers slightly
(20)(9)(40)(1)+(50)(80)
Tina+XB
Tina + X Bar(r) ?
(This is the only thing I'm good at!)

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BruceSmith

I see there is a lot of talk about chatting with Rataczak to clarify where 305 was when Cooper jumped.

That might be useful, but I also think it would be worthwhile to review what has already been revealed by the principals.

1. Rataczak told me he did know where 305 was when DBC jumped. Later in our 70-minute phone conversation he said that 305 was east of V-23 by a couple miles due to the wind.

2. Himmelsbach told me that Rataczak told him that 305 was over the Washougal.

3. Mrs. Cooper says that Rataczak told her that he could see the lights of Vancouver to the right. Not sure what that means. It sounds like perfect Jo Weber haze. But it could very well be V-23-ish, too.

4. Calame and Rhodes say that Scott told the folks at Himms' retirement party in 1980 that 305 was west of V-23 and over Woodland, WA.

5. Larry says V-23 All the Way to Red Bluff, CA!

6. Marianne Lincoln of Shady Acres Airport in Spanaway, WA says that the transmission from Seattle Center she heard were reporting east of V-23 to Gresham and then up the Columbia River Gorge.

7. Multiple eye witnesses allegedly report that they saw a burning object descend from a low-flying aircraft just west of the I-5 bridge over the Columbia, just about the time that 305 passed over the area.

So, what does this mishigas tell us about Norjak? It's just what the FBI likes for public consumption - perfectly mucked up or just another day in the Cooper Vortex?





Oops. A typo.

The information from Rataczak should read:

"Rataczak told me that he did not know where 305 was when DBC jumped."

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