DB Cooper

[skyjack71 0]

skyjack71

******
I STILL think Cooper knew for sure that he could exit a 727. Otherwise he was entering an airborne aluminum jail cell that would transport him to a fixed base one. His very specific and wise configuration commands regarding flaps, altitude and landing gear show that he was no aviation novice who might have just assumed any plane was jumpable. He had done his homework.

You ARE damn right he did his homework....a call was placed to a man with Boeing who was a friend of Duane's brother - none other than Stanley McGuilliam. Stanley Gilliams wife was the daugter of Duane' mothers' best friend and the 2 children were born a month apart.

Mrs Weber - Duane's mother was Best friends with the mother of Stanley Gilliams wife.

Stanley Gilliams wife was born Eunice Barth. --- THINK about this for a while before you jump the gun.

The Barth brothers where instrumental in the Weber's moving to CA. One of the Barth brothers live in WA.

A man by the name of Barth was also instrumental in Duane NOT being encarcerate on site at McNeil.

That was the friends of the family who intervened to keep Duane out of McNeil - There were other family connections in WA.

Duane's mother used to go to see them in WA when Duane was a young boy - and she took Duane on those trips.

Duane & the woman who became Stanley Gillaim's wife were born ONE month apart - their mother's were best friends.

Stanley met his bride thru these family connections..

Louise Barth (Eunice Barth's mother) and Lorraine Wenz Beechler (Duane Weber's mother) were BEST friends and often traveled between Ohio, Wa and Ca to see each other. The Wuestney was the connection.

I finally found what Duane's sister so desperately tried to tell me in my last phone call with her...She told me to write it down - but the storm just hit and I do NOT mean the Great Tornado Lorraine in Ohio.
GUYS this is OVER!

Louise and Lorraine gave birth to a girl and a boy in 1924 one month apart. That would be Duane and Eunice who would become the bride of Stanley Gilliam....many yrs later.

IF you GUYS do NOT see it NOW then YOU NEVER WILL!

Duane grew up to become a criminal and Eunice married Gilliam who was a friend of JOHN Weber (Duane's brother).

IF you don't get it now you never will! THIS is OVER and I do mean OVER. I have SAT on this hoping the FAMILY of Gilliam would finally come forward - but there are things that will not wait on MOTHER time & I have to tell this NOW.

Copy this post and KEEP it forever.
The KEY that unlocks the SECRETS. The words that Duane's sister said on the PHONE the last time we got to speak to each other. She wanted me to know, but I expect her son did not want the family secrets known...he was career military.

Learn about the past of John Collins (Duane's brother and Stanley Gilliam) and then weep for the LOST yrs. I tried to tell the FBI this for YRS and NO one would listen. Both John & Stanley worked for Boeing at the same time in WA - they where very good friends. Duane used and abused that friendship to commit the only unsolve skyjacking in history.

Duane and Stanley's wife were born 1 month apart. The mother of Stanley's wife was a very dear Friend of Duane's mother & they made trips to see each other often.

This journey is coming to an end very soon and I also have some information for Vickie...but, she has not answered my email...
Vickie CALL me! or Email me.


What I have said above is correct to the best of my knowledge and explains the posting about the man who owned the AIR PARK off of 500 & Duane's knowledge of the jumping site owne by Hattaway on 500.

I did NOT know that my posting above and someone discounting this would lead to the subsequent story I told about Bob and his death and his widow...

The memories started a RAGING flood....and the picture is VERY clear. If any of you read any of the actual factual books you will find the connections. IF you truely trace Weber's movements you will find that it is all true.

Sure I have often leaped on things just as others have - but I go back to what the family told me, what Duane told me and what I heard and saw with my own eyes....

Robt99 did I strike to close to home - and you erupted after my postings about Bob who was married to Mildred in 1971. I had mentioned the woman I met before - but, did NOT go into detail.

NOW the truth was infront of me for several yrs...I could never understand what was so important about those two old Cook Books[. NOW I know - it up to the FBI to prove I am wrong.

But as the FBI has said - I have to put Weber on the Plane....but, NOW I know the books will not put Weber on the plane, but connected to someone who was questioned & suspected of being Cooper.

I did NOT have enough knowledge of the crime to see this before & it was just a happen chance moment last night when I was sorting out Cooper things to throw away - IT WAS THERE RIGHT IN FRONT OF ME. The connections & what the FBI should have been told in 1996 when I contacted them - I had the WA connection sitting in my house - I didn't know then what I had and didn't know until LAST night. August 16, 2014.

It does NOT put Weber on the plane, but it connects Weber to someone who WAS investigated and dismissed.

All of that along with the family history with WA - if the FBI doesn't look at this in the next few days - I will take it to the media.

Duane's history and his connections to Wa. With any kind of checking the FBI should now be able to put Weber in WA - maybe not on the day of the SKYJACKING but with a background that would say - WE need to go further....but, the FBI is NOT investigating any of this...

Can you guys still see the above posting?

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[BruceSmith 3]

skyjack71

*********
I STILL think Cooper knew for sure that he could exit a 727. Otherwise he was entering an airborne aluminum jail cell that would transport him to a fixed base one. His very specific and wise configuration commands regarding flaps, altitude and landing gear show that he was no aviation novice who might have just assumed any plane was jumpable. He had done his homework.

You ARE damn right he did his homework....a call was placed to a man with Boeing who was a friend of Duane's brother - none other than Stanley McGuilliam. Stanley Gilliams wife was the daugter of Duane' mothers' best friend and the 2 children were born a month apart.

Mrs Weber - Duane's mother was Best friends with the mother of Stanley Gilliams wife.

Stanley Gilliams wife was born Eunice Barth. --- THINK about this for a while before you jump the gun.

The Barth brothers where instrumental in the Weber's moving to CA. One of the Barth brothers live in WA.

A man by the name of Barth was also instrumental in Duane NOT being encarcerate on site at McNeil.

That was the friends of the family who intervened to keep Duane out of McNeil - There were other family connections in WA.

Duane's mother used to go to see them in WA when Duane was a young boy - and she took Duane on those trips.

Duane & the woman who became Stanley Gillaim's wife were born ONE month apart - their mother's were best friends.

Stanley met his bride thru these family connections..

Louise Barth (Eunice Barth's mother) and Lorraine Wenz Beechler (Duane Weber's mother) were BEST friends and often traveled between Ohio, Wa and Ca to see each other. The Wuestney was the connection.

I finally found what Duane's sister so desperately tried to tell me in my last phone call with her...She told me to write it down - but the storm just hit and I do NOT mean the Great Tornado Lorraine in Ohio.
GUYS this is OVER!

Louise and Lorraine gave birth to a girl and a boy in 1924 one month apart. That would be Duane and Eunice who would become the bride of Stanley Gilliam....many yrs later.

IF you GUYS do NOT see it NOW then YOU NEVER WILL!

Duane grew up to become a criminal and Eunice married Gilliam who was a friend of JOHN Weber (Duane's brother).

IF you don't get it now you never will! THIS is OVER and I do mean OVER. I have SAT on this hoping the FAMILY of Gilliam would finally come forward - but there are things that will not wait on MOTHER time & I have to tell this NOW.

Copy this post and KEEP it forever.
The KEY that unlocks the SECRETS. The words that Duane's sister said on the PHONE the last time we got to speak to each other. She wanted me to know, but I expect her son did not want the family secrets known...he was career military.

Learn about the past of John Collins (Duane's brother and Stanley Gilliam) and then weep for the LOST yrs. I tried to tell the FBI this for YRS and NO one would listen. Both John & Stanley worked for Boeing at the same time in WA - they where very good friends. Duane used and abused that friendship to commit the only unsolve skyjacking in history.

Duane and Stanley's wife were born 1 month apart. The mother of Stanley's wife was a very dear Friend of Duane's mother & they made trips to see each other often.

This journey is coming to an end very soon and I also have some information for Vickie...but, she has not answered my email...
Vickie CALL me! or Email me.


What I have said above is correct to the best of my knowledge and explains the posting about the man who owned the AIR PARK off of 500 & Duane's knowledge of the jumping site owne by Hattaway on 500.

I did NOT know that my posting above and someone discounting this would lead to the subsequent story I told about Bob and his death and his widow...

The memories started a RAGING flood....and the picture is VERY clear. If any of you read any of the actual factual books you will find the connections. IF you truely trace Weber's movements you will find that it is all true.

Sure I have often leaped on things just as others have - but I go back to what the family told me, what Duane told me and what I heard and saw with my own eyes....

Robt99 did I strike to close to home - and you erupted after my postings about Bob who was married to Mildred in 1971. I had mentioned the woman I met before - but, did NOT go into detail.

NOW the truth was infront of me for several yrs...I could never understand what was so important about those two old Cook Books[. NOW I know - it up to the FBI to prove I am wrong.

But as the FBI has said - I have to put Weber on the Plane....but, NOW I know the books will not put Weber on the plane, but connected to someone who was questioned & suspected of being Cooper.

I did NOT have enough knowledge of the crime to see this before & it was just a happen chance moment last night when I was sorting out Cooper things to throw away - IT WAS THERE RIGHT IN FRONT OF ME. The connections & what the FBI should have been told in 1996 when I contacted them - I had the WA connection sitting in my house - I didn't know then what I had and didn't know until LAST night. August 16, 2014.

It does NOT put Weber on the plane, but it connects Weber to someone who WAS investigated and dismissed.

All of that along with the family history with WA - if the FBI doesn't look at this in the next few days - I will take it to the media.

Duane's history and his connections to Wa. With any kind of checking the FBI should now be able to put Weber in WA - maybe not on the day of the SKYJACKING but with a background that would say - WE need to go further....but, the FBI is NOT investigating any of this...

Can you guys still see the above posting?

I saw it, but I didn't read it.

[skyjack71 0]

skyjack71

Never could hit the ball with a baseball bat....because my hand to eye co-ordination is very poor. Always strunk out.

NOW, I am going to list some names and want to know if any of you can trace them....Bare in mind I did find one of them yrs ago and her name I will not list.

All of them are older than myself so that puts them in their late 80 to mid 90's or no longer alive.

Recognize the names?

Think AWARE and CA and WA.

Suzie Hadden
Joan Garrity
Barbie Haskell
Mildred Ford
Candace Baker
Mildred Nicolisen
Kawaguchi - several of them

One I found is not mentioned, but we have had several conversations over the yrs.

Could Suzie be related to the Hadden who supplied the chutes?
Probably not! But maybe!

Joan Garrity - well, I have discussed her before and she is deceased. She was the woman who was the target of my trip to WA in 2010. She was an artist and had an antique shope in Or and someone Duane knew!

Mildred Ford - who was her husband?
Anyone know a suspect by the name of Ford who was questioned in regards to Cooper?

Mildred Nicolisen - perhaps I added that name to confuse you and maybe not.

Baker - probably no relation to Jerry.

Kawaguchi - so many of them, but what was the nationality? Wonder if it is connected to Wong - nah probably different nationality connection than Wong...but did the wives take their husbands names?

Barbie Haskell - that name seems more than familiar to me. Does it ring any bells with any of you regarding the 1940's and 1950's?

Nava Streeter - was this not the wife of another suspect who was ruled out?
I believe for some reason that name connects with Coffelt - nah just shear co-incidence.

Kawaguchi
What was the name of a man who was in the search for Cooper who went to Hawaii to live. We discussed him in the thread.

How is that name connected to a woman not named who contacted me thru Margie.

Sure a lot of co-incidences in the life of Duane Weber. A lot of unexplained yrs and associations.

All of these names are in ONE book and all of them had more than one thing in common. What was it?

Base yourself for CA and WA and find the connections.

I noted the thread is very silent so there must be some sporting event going on tonight....?


All of the good emotioncons and none of the bad!

A little hint! ALL OF THESE NAME HAD A COMMON CONNECTION BEFORE 1971!

Can you guys see this post - when the memories came like the opening of the flood gates on a dam?

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[Robert99 37]

skyjack71

Can you guys still see the above posting?

Unfortunately, yes. We can see it just as well as we could the first 10 times you posted that information.

[skyjack71 0]

When I started to put others before myself and make efforts to resolve Vickie's search for her father - everything else just happened.

I hope I am not the only one who can see these important posting!

Are the postings I made about Vickie's father still there - I have not heard from her and no word yet about the article. I know some where in my vast files I did have a COPY of that news article the Sentinel carried from a now defunct small town paper in South Florida.

I actually spoke with the man who took care of the guy who got in trouble and could not get assistance.
This man made sure - the guy who had been in trouble for counterfeiting 20's did not go without the necessities until his death.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[BruceSmith 3]

mrshutter45

I have my hands on my temples. come with me into the world of the unseen

http://www.dropzone.com/forum/Skydiving_C1/Skydiving_History_%26_Trivia_F21/DB_Cooper_P3110098-2199

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-dJolYw8tnk

Wow, Shut, you have become the portal to Blevins World! What's that like? You thought you have troubles running an alternative DB Cooper site, wait until you become world-renown as an interdimensional emissary!

So, Mark Bennett thinks you are like the kid from Sixth Sense - "I can see Robert Blevins."

I think you might be like a dark hole, able to bridge Ordinary Matter with Mirror Matter. Is Blevs lost in the Mirror World?

[BruceSmith 3]

Bobby Update, Tuesday, August 19, 2014

Bobby B is still lost, but I received another PM from him and he says that his DZ World is functioning normally. He can see our posts and his just fine!

Further, he thinks those of us who can't see him have been bounced from the DZ by the Powers That Be.

Yet, conventional thinking as expressed above appears to feel that the Spam Button has teleported Blevs to an Alternate Universe, but Shutter seems to have a portal to Bobby's current position in the Space-Time Continuum.

So, the Spam Button may have powers that exceed merely zapping individual posters from the collective.

Given the data that is available presently, the Spam Button (SB), arguably, has the ability to alter reality as we know it.

Who will be next to experiment with the SB?

Not me. Just sayin'.

Just when we need Georger, he goes Super-Cranky on us and leaves. Typical Physicist!

Lastly, Sangiro has yet to respond to the PM I sent him asking for a clarification of the WTF is happening.

Maybe the moderator is responding but we just can't read it? Whew, living interdimensionally can get a little confusing.

I think I'll get another cup of coffee. Yes, I know it's 2:01 pm Pacific Time, but I tend to live on the other side of the clock.

[BruceSmith 3]

Quote

When I started to put others before myself and make efforts to resolve Vickie's search for her father - everything else just happened.

No good deed goes unpunished.

I read that somewhere.

[BruceSmith 3]

BruceSmith

Quote

When I started to put others before myself and make efforts to resolve Vickie's search for her father - everything else just happened.

No good deed goes unpunished.

I read that somewhere.

Maybe it's a cyber attack, Mrs. Cooper. The FBI read your recent posts, and realizing how close you are to solving Norjak they sabotaged your postings, disguised as a banning of Bobby.

But Minds Like Ours are too slick for them. Justice will prevail.

[skyjack71 0]

Robert99

***

Can you guys still see the above posting?

Unfortunately, yes. We can see it just as well as we could the first 10 times you posted that information.

Robt99 I had not posted some of that information until recently - but, with some other postings that got zapped, I just needed to know\ if they could be seen.

Don't worry I won't be reposting them again.

In the event you are not aware of it most of my postings are in reply to the subject at hand or I ask questions about prior postings from others.

What has happened in the last couple of weeks - is very important to me.
Sorry I repeated them.

What will become of this I know not.
Seems like someone else was very interested in what I revealed.

You only support postings that affirm you theory....sorry mind do not.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[Amazon 7]

BruceSmith

Bobby Update, Tuesday, August 19, 2014

Bobby B is still lost, but I received another PM from him and he says that his DZ World is functioning normally. He can see our posts and his just fine!

Further, he thinks those of us who can't see him have been bounced from the DZ by the Powers That Be.

Yet, conventional thinking as expressed above appears to feel that the Spam Button has teleported Blevs to an Alternate Universe, but Shutter seems to have a portal to Bobby's current position in the Space-Time Continuum.

So, the Spam Button may have powers that exceed merely zapping individual posters from the collective.

Given the data that is available presently, the Spam Button (SB), arguably, has the ability to alter reality as we know it.

Who will be next to experiment with the SB?

Not me. Just sayin'.

Just when we need Georger, he goes Super-Cranky on us and leaves. Typical Physicist!

Lastly, Sangiro has yet to respond to the PM I sent him asking for a clarification of the WTF is happening.

Maybe the moderator is responding but we just can't read it? Whew, living interdimensionally can get a little confusing.

I think I'll get another cup of coffee. Yes, I know it's 2:01 pm Pacific Time, but I tend to live on the other side of the clock.

You may want to consider the OTHER guy in red Meso... and not bother the guy with the really big red fork...... just sayin.

[BruceSmith 3]

Quote

You may want to consider the OTHER guy in red Meso... and not bother the guy with the really big red fork...... just sayin.

How many moderators do we have?

Meso? Hmmmm. I vaguely remember seeing that name somewhere, or I was hungry and thinking miso soup.

I'll give it a try.

[BruceSmith 3]

Quote

"...You may want to consider the OTHER guy in red Meso... and not bother the guy with the really big red fork...... just sayin..."

I ain't afraid of guys with big forks, Miss Amazona. What truly frightens me are women with knives.

Not sure why. I haven't made it that far in therapy, I suppose....

[skyjack71 0]

We are cracking up but he is probably out of his mind thinking he is being persecuted....but, if he has actually been bannished we need to know what he did to be bannished.

Any ONE of us could be NEXT.
I think it is just a glich - because my postings went poof per the guys who post here. I was unaware of that until now....but, what I did when I got the SPAM report was to immediately contact both guys (the owner and the moderator) about what I did....
and that I didn't know what the button was and hit it to see what it meant.....I did that three time to myself.

So Blevins has NO idea we can't read his postings? He thinks everything is normal. Do any of you know how upsetting that must be to him?

Being cruel & saying cruel things about someone not able to be here to defend themselves is really very cruel & childish.

Perhaps some of your time would be better used to find new clues regarding the tower off of 500 and the prior owner of that park having been investigated regarding Cooper in the early weeks after the Skyjacking.

Get curious and try to find any information regarding the man you can...

When Jo decides to take something public you know she has thought it over....Perhaps some of the early FBI research made available to the public...and any news article or any mention of this Air Park Owner on 500 in any book might deter me from making a fool out of myself publically.

My search capabilities are limited because of AOL and my old computer.

Don't even suggest a new one and a network - they do NOT fit into my budget as this time with all of the expenses I am incurring lately.

Yet,I am in a better positition than most seniors....

Having to pay someone to do what I used to do for myself....simple things like weed the landscape, spray chemicals for weed, trim hedges & treat for all the BUGS we have in FL. All of that does not help the budget.

Taxes are getting out of hand & the home repairs are OUT landish.
The market is in the bucket and yet the cost of a home in Ga closer to my daughter is very expensive...
What I would get out of this house won't buy much in Ga or S.C.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[18C 0]

I only recently found SafecrackingPLF's series of videos on YouTube.

In one of the early videos he makes the point about the layers in the sand at Tena Bar, and how they strongly point to the 3 bundles of money found by Brian Ingram in 1980 having only been there for a short period of time, and nothing like 9 years. Add to that the fact the elastic bands still bound the bundles of notes together and it starts to look very much like someone put the money there at a later date.

I'm certain amongst the 1000s of posts here this subject has come up before. But what are people's thoughts please??????

[skyjack71 0]

PLEASE change your AVATAR. Those of us closely attached to this are offended when someone uses Tina as an AVATAR...she has been persecuted enough....DO this out of RESPECT.

You may think it is cute but you have to understand what this crime did to that girl and how it altered her life.

Use Himmelsbach picture but do NOT use Tina - the one who was caused the most harm by Cooper.

Thank YOU....please - using her picture is in VERY poor taste.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[BruceSmith 3]

18C

I only recently found SafecrackingPLF's series of videos on YouTube.

In one of the early videos he makes the point about the layers in the sand at Tena Bar, and how they strongly point to the 3 bundles of money found by Brian Ingram in 1980 having only been there for a short period of time, and nothing like 9 years. Add to that the fact the elastic bands still bound the bundles of notes together and it starts to look very much like someone put the money there at a later date.

I'm certain amongst the 1000s of posts here this subject has come up before. But what are people's thoughts please??????

I very much like the notion of a late arrival at Tina Bar. 1-2 years feels about right considering what folks have said about dredge layers, etc.

A couple of things get in the way, though:

1. The money was compressed.

In fact, reports are that the money was essentially stuck together and Mrs. Ingram soaked the money for a while to see if she could get the twenties to separate. I haven't gotten any confirmation from Brian on this, but G-1 went into much detail on this with me on the phone about a year ago when there was a thaw in our relationship, which no longer exists - sigh.

So this suggests that the money was buried somewhere for a lengthy period of time.

2. The lack of a plume field

This is very intriguing and suggests that the money was planted. I asked Brian about this in Portland in 2011 and he specifically told me, with a belly laugh, that he and his family spent the rest of the day "looking for more money!" They didn't a thing, he says.

However, plenty of folks deny this, including lots of FBI agents who claim they found tidbits and fragments all over the place. The locations and amounts vary greatly, though, depending on whom you talk with.

But the documentation on their accounts is missing, or at least is not in Seattle, as far as I know. Also missing are all the tidbits they reportedly found.

Yet, G-2 says that he has found fishermen who found fragments at T-Bar in the weeks prior to Brian's find in February 1980. But these guys can't back-up their story either, so it dangles in space as a possibility.

3. Arrangement of the bills.

I find this topic to be very interesting. The three bundles were found stacked upon each other, but not at precise angles. This suggests that somebody buried them there and they weren't washed up.

But G-1 makes a great argument for not burying the bills, namely, no one would ever find them so why bury them? Hide them for later retrieval? If so, then why not bury them in a safer place and in some kind of protective container, etc.

From that, other theories get a bit further out.

One of my favorites is that the money was intentionally buried as part of an MKULTRA exercise to condition participants that they were actually DB Cooper and were planting their loot for a later retrieval. This suggests that there are multiple people who firmly believe they are DB Cooper, and that is what the evidence tells us, such as Duane, LD, and Barb. We do have 922 confessees, so there may be more.

This latter notion also requires an investigation of the Cooper Vortex phenomenon, which is the theory that the DB Cooper case has very strong emotional impacts on certain people, such as the folks here at the DZ and the gentlemen who claim to be DB Cooper (and women, such as Barb Dayton).

Such as it is, the DB Cooper case has many facets and they quickly get intertwined and it takes a lot of work to follow a thread of evidence into any conclusive place.

By the way, the sign at the beach says "Tina Bar," not Tena Bar. I know that the latter is used by a lot of folks but I feel that it is a purposeful distraction to the interesting fact that the primary witness to the skyjacking, Tina Mucklow, was living a few miles upstream at the time of the money find.

Lastly, I love aisle seats, too!. But the person who spent most of the time in 18C on November 24, 1971 was Tina M. Not sure you knew this, so I'm passing it on.

Or maybe you do! Tell us more....

[skyjack71 0]

Hello GALEN - you are back. ONLY U would use Tina's Picture - how OBTUSE!

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[18C 0]

skyjack71

PLEASE change your AVATAR. Those of us closely attached to this are offended when someone uses Tina as an AVATAR...she has been persecuted enough....DO this out of RESPECT.

You may think it is cute but you have to understand what this crime did to that girl and how it altered her life.

Use Himmelsbach picture but do NOT use Tina - the one who was caused the most harm by Cooper.

Thank YOU....please - using her picture is in VERY poor taste.

Surely there would be absolutely zero chance Tina Mucklow would ever visit this forum. So quite frankly I don't understand the validity of your request. However, if other posters also see difficulty with my avatar I'll be happy to change it.

[18C 0]

skyjack71

Hello GALEN - you are back. ONLY U would use Tina's Picture - how OBTUSE!

Wrong again.

I came here to discuss the case. Not be pursed by you.

[skyjack71 0]

Have you met her, Do you see the suffering on her face - leave her be - it has been 43 yrs. I spoke with her one time and what I heard in her voice has haunted me since that day in 2004 - 10 yrs ago.

She does NOT need her picture flaunted on the internet in a thread day after day and some of us who do know about her struggles are NOT comfortable with her being abused or torchered the way the media and certain OBTUSE writers have been know to do in the past.

She has been hounded and her family has been hounded by individuals like Galen Cook and Bruce Smith and multiple others over the yrs. The above are the 2 most recent ones.

I for one do not like to see the torcher in her eyes everyday - evidently you are not aware of this or you just do not care how others feel or might react.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[377 20]

Jo,

You may disagree with someone using Tina's picture as an avatar but it is highly unlikely that it harms Tina. She doesn't hang out in the Cooper Vortex.

Let it be. Being a morality cop in this forum is the ultimate exercise in futility.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[18C 0]

BruceSmith

***I only recently found SafecrackingPLF's series of videos on YouTube.

In one of the early videos he makes the point about the layers in the sand at Tena Bar, and how they strongly point to the 3 bundles of money found by Brian Ingram in 1980 having only been there for a short period of time, and nothing like 9 years. Add to that the fact the elastic bands still bound the bundles of notes together and it starts to look very much like someone put the money there at a later date.

I'm certain amongst the 1000s of posts here this subject has come up before. But what are people's thoughts please??????

I very much like the notion of a late arrival at Tina Bar. 1-2 years feels about right considering what folks have said about dredge layers, etc.

A couple of things get in the way, though:

1. The money was compressed.

In fact, reports are that the money was essentially stuck together and Mrs. Ingram soaked the money for a while to see if she could get the twenties to separate. I haven't gotten any confirmation from Brian on this, but G-1 went into much detail on this with me on the phone about a year ago when there was a thaw in our relationship, which no longer exists - sigh.

So this suggests that the money was buried somewhere for a lengthy period of time.

2. The lack of a plume field

This is very intriguing and suggests that the money was planted. I asked Brian about this in Portland in 2011 and he specifically told me, with a belly laugh, that he and his family spent the rest of the day "looking for more money!" They didn't a thing, he says.

However, plenty of folks deny this, including lots of FBI agents who claim they found tidbits and fragments all over the place. The locations and amounts vary greatly, though, depending on whom you talk with.

But the documentation on their accounts is missing, or at least is not in Seattle, as far as I know. Also missing are all the tidbits they reportedly found.

Yet, G-2 says that he has found fishermen who found fragments at T-Bar in the weeks prior to Brian's find in February 1980. But these guys can't back-up their story either, so it dangles in space as a possibility.

3. Arrangement of the bills.

I find this topic to be very interesting. The three bundles were found stacked upon each other, but not at precise angles. This suggests that somebody buried them there and they weren't washed up.

But G-1 makes a great argument for not burying the bills, namely, no one would ever find them so why bury them? Hide them for later retrieval? If so, then why not bury them in a safer place and in some kind of protective container, etc.

From that, other theories get a bit further out.

One of my favorites is that the money was intentionally buried as part of an MKULTRA exercise to condition participants that they were actually DB Cooper and were planting their loot for a later retrieval. This suggests that there are multiple people who firmly believe they are DB Cooper, and that is what the evidence tells us, such as Duane, LD, and Barb. We do have 922 confessees, so there may be more.

This latter notion also requires an investigation of the Cooper Vortex phenomenon, which is the theory that the DB Cooper case has very strong emotional impacts on certain people, such as the folks here at the DZ and the gentlemen who claim to be DB Cooper (and women, such as Barb Dayton).

Such as it is, the DB Cooper case has many facets and they quickly get intertwined and it takes a lot of work to follow a thread of evidence into any conclusive place.

By the way, the sign at the beach says "Tina Bar," not Tena Bar. I know that the latter is used by a lot of folks but I feel that it is a purposeful distraction to the interesting fact that the primary witness to the skyjacking, Tina Mucklow, was living a few miles upstream at the time of the money find.

Lastly, I love aisle seats, too!. But the person who spent most of the time in 18C on November 24, 1971 was Tina M. Not sure you knew this, so I'm passing it on.

Or maybe you do! Tell us more....

Thanks for your well constructed response. I don't have much to tell other than I share an interest in the case and have read enough to know who is who, and some of the what is what.

Cheers for now.

[18C 0]

377

Jo,

You may disagree with someone using Tina's picture as an avatar but it is highly unlikely that it harms Tina. She doesn't hang out in the Cooper Vortex.

Let it be. Being a morality cop in this forum is the ultimate exercise in futility.

377

Thanks for your thoughts and support there.

I should have mentioned it earlier, but I'll do it now, the "Through The Lens of Logic" series of videos by SafecrackingPLF seemed to be very worthwhile, but then conclude almost all too suddenly.

I got the impression he stopped rather than finished? I will re-visit the last couple of videos. But that's the impression I got.

[Robert99 37]

RobertMBlevins

*********note the first 3 digits Robert, it's not that hard to search the pages. L66, L67, L68 etc.

Well, you say it would be easy for tellers to check their twenties against that 10,000 number list.

This is where we part company, opinion-wise. I think it was enough to make tellers pull out their hair, and they probably breathed a sigh of relief when their particular bank gave up the effort.

Remember...there are 33 OTHER pages comprising that list, not just the 300 or so numbers shown.
Take a look at the picture again. Then try to tell me with a straight face how 'easy' a process it all was.

Blevins, for a given bill number, you don't have to check the whole 10,000 bill list! Get real!

You are saying that if you are looking for the number 2 in a list that is ordered 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, and 9 that you would continue past 2 and go all the way to 9 even after finding 2. Again, get real!

And for alphanumeric sequences you don't necessarily even start at the first bill on the list. You go to the first listing that starts with the first letter (alpha) or number (numeric) of the bill you are checking. If the bill serial numbers are in a ringed binder, it probably wouldn't take a reasonably experienced clerk more than 15 seconds to check it out after she first noticed the appropriate series year on the front of the bill.

Your efforts to make checking the serial numbers so difficult that nobody would do it is because YOU need to explain why none of the ransom, other than the money found at Tina Bar, was ever found. It's simple - The remainder of the ransom was never found is because it was NEVER found. Nobody, much less KC, ever spent it.

Robert99

This post is a little old, but I have a response again. Robert99 has not lived most of his life in the Seattle area, as I have. And I can assure you that not only was the requested search a headache for tellers, but that all NW banks gave up this search within a maximum of six months, and most (according to former Cooper case agent Larry Carr in his audio interview at Wiki) within THREE months. A senior Treasury official I interviewed by phone said that such a comparison search at their level back in 1972 would be nearly impossible, due to the sheer number of bills they receive each day at Printing and Engraving in DC. I believe him. He added that even if such a search were ordered, it wouldn't have gone on very long despite what the FBI requested.

The bottom line here is that if the hijacker did not spend any of the money for at least six months after the hijacking that passing them off in 1972 would be reletively easy to do. And this would probably not be the first time that stolen cash with recorded serial numbers had been successfully laundered. Cooper, if he did such a thing, was not the first, and he certainly wasn't the last.
Blevins, This is just another attempt of yours to explain some of the illogical statements that you have made in trying to frame KC for the hijacking. And increase the sales of your KC book and, hopefully, lure some sucker into buying your KC screen play.

Smokin99 and a number of others, including myself, have repeatedly pointed out to you that your logic (?) is wrong.

For instance, if you are looking for a name in the phone book that starts with "Z", you do not have to start with the "A" surnames and work your way to the "Z" listing. You just start with the "Z" surnames.

The ransom money numbers could easily be placed in an alpha-numeric sequence with the end result that a bank teller could easily determine if a given bill was part of the ransom in less than 10 seconds.

This has been discussed at length previously and there is no point in discussing it further here. Just refer to the previous posts since nothing is going to change their validity.

Robert99