DB Cooper

[skyjack71 0]

BruceSmith

Quote

"...How many of the so called writers about their subject actually ever spoke to a fraction of the individuals I actually spoke with more than one time...."

Jo - and how many writers talked to a source at the same time you were? Like Us! With Jane and her husband Lee. I was talking to him at the front door and you were talking to Jane in the kitchen. How is that for synchronicity?

We must be quantumly entangled. Whoa.

ABSOLUTELY NOT! They never want to see you again. You only interview for sensationalism...

You do not want the truth & the individuals you have interviewed are completely put off by your tactics.

The individuals I contacted - (not interviewed) are real people with real information to offer on the history of the background of a subject...pro and con. I was not showing up on their doors unannounced as you are known to do...

WHY would anyone spend 18 yrs of their life on something if they did NOT believe with all of their heart & soul the person making the confession did so truthfully?

I refuse to let our government get away with this outlandish - concealment of a crime.

If they ACTUALLY investigated THE THINGS I DID & spoke to the people I did...they would not have ignored Weber or have swept him under the mat so quickly unless they were order to do so.

The FBI and the interviewer refused to accept my verbage - it was damaging. I refuse to be a part of a scam. I will be damned if I will deliberately lie for anyone!

Then when it is all over and the day before I leave this transport truck driver shows up and tells me where to go to look for the things I need to know....why didn't the FBI provide me with that information....

Why did the FBI not offer up an investigator to go look for the place with me?

Seems like the FBI are UNDER ORDERS to ignore certain things...and Weber was one of them.

Cooper made fools out the authorites to the extent it is less embarassing to just say unsolved rather than admit they dropped the Ball.

Maybe the FBI was forced to bury Cooper - the verdict will be out on that one till the end of time unless the FEDS open the files....

I did not have access to the files the government had, but I questioned more people & spoke with more principals than the FBI did regarding Weber.

BIG QUESTION IS WHY DID THE FBI LIE ABOUT THE JEFFERSON FILE & WHY WAS THAT PICTURE & FILE NOT MADE AVAILABLE TO THE PUBLIC AND HIS WIDOW....

I BEGGED for IT. My guy spent a lot of money to go to JEFFERSON at their invitation and when he arrives they turn him away. That was 2004.

Then in 2013 (9 yrs later) Shutter is able to produce it on this thread.

WELL, LET ME ASSURE ALL OF YOU there was NO PICTURE AND the context of the infomation made available to me was sketchy....I have my correspondences with a very nice woman - and THERE WERE no pictures and the file that was accessible was santicized...not anything like the other files from the other prisond nor like what SHUTTER was able to produce...

My guy spent a lot of money and time after we corresponded with the prison - only to be turned away when he arrived...ORDERS!

Shutter produces the information for me 9 yrs later - after the FBI Had refused to make the file available.

This thread had the same information made available to me by Ckret in 2004 - and it did NOT resemble the information that has now been acquired.

I BEGGED on the PHONE and on the thread and in private emails...you guys wonder WHY I had it in for Ckret?

Shutter produced the file in 2013!
It contained the one thing I BEGGED for from Ckret - the intake photo, but not the out take. The the intake should caused the FBI to relook at Weber.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[skyjack71 0]

When I was discussing the Jefferson with Ckret it is in the this thread.
Also my discussionn with the woman in the state office and another woman in another area....both could NOT understand why there was NO picture as ALL of the other files had pictures..

One even provided the names of the attorneys who represented Mr. Collins.

I printed my correspondences with the indiviuduals!

NOW THE FBI NEEDS TO EXPLAIN WHY THEY ALLOWED CKRET TO TREAT ME THEY WAY HE DID IN THIS THREAD?

ALSO MEANS THAT OTHER THINGS SHARED WITH CKRET LIKE THE CAMINO FILE - WAS PLACED IN A BLIND AREA.

TWO MAJOR FINDS - CONCEALED BY one FBI AGENT...PERHAPS NO ONE THOUGHT I WOULD PUT THIS CRAP TOGETHER.

If I survive what I have ahead of me -I want a public apology from the FBI.
Do you guys realize that all of this is right here in this thread?

Uummpt!

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[georger 197]

RobertMBlevins

Quote

'Any ideas on where the ciggies are? Where the ciggie-DNA report is?'

My understanding of this, (from a couple of phone calls and emails from the Seattle FBI) is that there was never a DNA test done on the cigarette butts. This is because when they went to find them...they were missing. So they went to the tie, and according to Special Agent Fred Gutt, they were only able to obtain a partial profile...which according to Gutt can not positively ID a known suspect's sample as Cooper, but can ELIMINATE them from contention. I am not a DNA expert by any means, so for any clarification you would have to approach the Seattle FBI on this.

So, is it safe to assume they could not get a direction as to
haplotype from the partial they have?

A partial of what?

How meaningful are Gutt's statements to you on this? What do
"you" in particular know after his remarks, that you did not know
beforehand, that you keep repeating Gutt's remarks in this
thread to inform us of what?

[skyjack71 0]

Guess when they decided to do the DNA on the smokes? NOT until they ordered the FL FBI to pick-up Duane Weber's DNA in 2003.

Remember they picked up the DNA in 2003 but they did NOT test it until the end of 2008.

Why did they wait so long to test the DNA. When they called for his DNA they where in a mad rush - I couldn't get it ready fast enough. Yet, is sat in their storage room for 5 yrs.

If I pulled the pick-up and return notices - I can give exact dates...but hardly worth the effort as the FBI has proved themselves unreliable in more than one incident regarding Cooper.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[georger 197]

RPG83

Hello everyone! A new Cooper fan reports for duty.

I have no idea if these things have already been covered but here are my points:

1. If Cooper was a professional skydiver, why didn't he bring his own rig on board? I guess airlines were not too strict about hand luggage back in the 1970s.

2. Would it be possible to drive the DNA samples obtained from the tie through the databases searching for a partial match, i.e. child or brother? The way they did in Grim sleeper case: http://abcnews.go.com/Nightline/familys-dna-led-police-grim-sleeper-serial-killer/story?id=11116381

Here is some guidance from the FBI's own handbook, quote:

"Q: Can partial match information at NDIS be disclosed?
A: Since a partial match is not an exact profile match to an offender profile and therefore cannot be subject to NDIS defined confirmation procedures, the FBI has authorized procedures for the release of partial match information. NDIS Laboratories that identify a partial match resulting from an NDIS search and wish to identify the offender profile should refer to Appendix G of the NDIS Operational Procedures Manual and contact the FBI’s CODIS Unit for further information."

and,

"Q: How successful are partial matches at locating potential suspects?
A: As explained in SWGDAM’s recommendations “Moderate stringency CODIS matches, in general, have very low efficiency in locating true relatives in offender databases. There is little useful probative value in the majority of partial matches using the current CODIS searching rules and algorithms. There are two main reasons for this: (1) true siblings will very rarely share alleles at all 13 CODIS loci; (2) as offender DNA databases get large, the number of unrelated people that do share at least one allele at all loci increases very rapidly. The original intent for allowing moderate stringency CODIS searches was the realization and acknowledgment that crime scene profiles often may be partially degraded and/or contain DNA from more than one contributor. Additionally, different primer sets may have been used between profiles. Allowing the detection of partial matches can help accommodate these two scenarios and allow the ultimate detection of full, high-stringency matches that might otherwise not have been found.” The Committee’s complete list of recommendations is available at http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/lab/forensic-science-communications/fsc/archive/oct2009/standard_guidlines/swgdam.html (with correction at http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/lab/forensic-science-communications/fsc/communications/swgdamv3/swgdam.html)."


Q: Are partial matches the same as familial searches?
A: No. A partial match, as indicated above, is the spontaneous product of a routine database search where a candidate offender profile is not identical to the forensic profile but because of a similarity in the number of alleles shared between the forensic profile and the candidate profile, the offender may be a close biological relative of the source of the forensic profile. Familial Searching is an intentional or deliberate search of the database conducted after a routine search for the purpose of potentially identifying close biological relatives of the unknown forensic sample associated with the crime scene profile.

Q: Are familial searches performed at NDIS?
A: No, familial searching is not currently performed at NDIS. See
also Federal Register Vol. 73, No. 238 (December 10, 2008 at
page 74937). Note* State and private testing options can
be different.

Loci used for the Codis-13 test and the level of confidence (stringency) required, are:

D8S1179 Moderate

D21S11 High

D7S820 Moderate

CSF1PO Moderate

D3S1358 High

TH01 Moderate

D13S317 Moderate

D16S539 Moderate

VWA Moderate

TPOX Moderate

D18S51 Moderate

D5S818 Moderate

FGA High


Please read further at the same link I gave before:

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/lab/biometric-analysis/codis/codis-and-ndis-fact-sheet

[BruceSmith 3]

RobertMBlevins

Quote

'Any ideas on where the ciggies are? Where the ciggie-DNA report is?'

My understanding of this, (from a couple of phone calls and emails from the Seattle FBI) is that there was never a DNA test done on the cigarette butts. This is because when they went to find them...they were missing. So they went to the tie, and according to Special Agent Fred Gutt, they were only able to obtain a partial profile...which according to Gutt can not positively ID a known suspect's sample as Cooper, but can ELIMINATE them from contention. I am not a DNA expert by any means, so for any clarification you would have to approach the Seattle FBI on this.

Assuming Fred Gutt is telling you the truth and that you have correctly interpreted what he was telling you, what degree of certainty would you place on your above statement?

1. FBI is 100% truthful in saying it lost the ciggies before they went to look for them for the 2002 DNA test.

2. FBI 80-90% is truthful in saying that the ciggies were lost before they went to look for them.

3. FBI is less than 50% truthful in saying that the ciggies were lost before they went looking for them.

I know you like claiming mathematical probabilities on human behavior, such as you feel 90% that KC is DB Cooper, so how about Gutty?

Along those lines, how about the 2002 KIRO-TV news broadcast and Pat Forman.

1. KIRO-TV is 100% wrong in telecasting that the FBI tested DB Cooper's ciggies for DNA?

2. KIRO is 50-50?

3. Pat Forman is 100% mistaken?

4. Pat Forman is 50-50 - besides 2002 is so long ago....

[BruceSmith 3]

Quote

Loci used for the Codis-13 test and the level of confidence (stringency) required, are:

D8S1179 Moderate

D21S11 High

D7S820 Moderate

CSF1PO Moderate

D3S1358 High

TH01 Moderate

D13S317 Moderate

D16S539 Moderate

VWA Moderate

TPOX Moderate

D18S51 Moderate

D5S818 Moderate

FGA High


Please read further at the same link I gave before:

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/lab/biometric-analysis/codis/codis-and-ndis-fact-sheet

So, how many markers are available in saliva, such as found on cigarette butts as compared to epithelial cells?

[BruceSmith 3]

skyjack71

Guess when they decided to do the DNA on the smokes? NOT until they ordered the FL FBI to pick-up Duane Weber's DNA in 2003.

Remember they picked up the DNA in 2003 but they did NOT test it until the end of 2008.

Why did they wait so long to test the DNA. When they called for his DNA they where in a mad rush - I couldn't get it ready fast enough. Yet, is sat in their storage room for 5 yrs.

If I pulled the pick-up and return notices - I can give exact dates...but hardly worth the effort as the FBI has proved themselves unreliable in more than one incident regarding Cooper.

Why do you think they waited so long, Jo?

1. FBI is dazed and confused?
2. FBI didn't give a shit.
3. Duane was a low priority?
4. So much DNA, so little time?
5. What's another five years in the Norjak case, anyway.

[BruceSmith 3]

skyjack71

***

Quote

"...How many of the so called writers about their subject actually ever spoke to a fraction of the individuals I actually spoke with more than one time...."

Jo - and how many writers talked to a source at the same time you were? Like Us! With Jane and her husband Lee. I was talking to him at the front door and you were talking to Jane in the kitchen. How is that for synchronicity?

We must be quantumly entangled. Whoa.

ABSOLUTELY NOT! They never want to see you again. You only interview for sensationalism...

You do not want the truth & the individuals you have interviewed are completely put off by your tactics.

The individuals I contacted - (not interviewed) are real people with real information to offer on the history of the background of a subject...pro and con. I was not showing up on their doors unannounced as you are known to do...

WHY would anyone spend 18 yrs of their life on something if they did NOT believe with all of their heart & soul the person making the confession did so truthfully?

I refuse to let our government get away with this outlandish - concealment of a crime.

If they ACTUALLY investigated THE THINGS I DID & spoke to the people I did...they would not have ignored Weber or have swept him under the mat so quickly unless they were order to do so.

The FBI and the interviewer refused to accept my verbage - it was damaging. I refuse to be a part of a scam. I will be damned if I will deliberately lie for anyone!

Then when it is all over and the day before I leave this transport truck driver shows up and tells me where to go to look for the things I need to know....why didn't the FBI provide me with that information....

Why did the FBI not offer up an investigator to go look for the place with me?

Seems like the FBI are UNDER ORDERS to ignore certain things...and Weber was one of them.

Cooper made fools out the authorites to the extent it is less embarassing to just say unsolved rather than admit they dropped the Ball.

Maybe the FBI was forced to bury Cooper - the verdict will be out on that one till the end of time unless the FEDS open the files....

I did not have access to the files the government had, but I questioned more people & spoke with more principals than the FBI did regarding Weber.

BIG QUESTION IS WHY DID THE FBI LIE ABOUT THE JEFFERSON FILE & WHY WAS THAT PICTURE & FILE NOT MADE AVAILABLE TO THE PUBLIC AND HIS WIDOW....

I BEGGED for IT. My guy spent a lot of money to go to JEFFERSON at their invitation and when he arrives they turn him away. That was 2004.

Then in 2013 (9 yrs later) Shutter is able to produce it on this thread.

WELL, LET ME ASSURE ALL OF YOU there was NO PICTURE AND the context of the infomation made available to me was sketchy....I have my correspondences with a very nice woman - and THERE WERE no pictures and the file that was accessible was santicized...not anything like the other files from the other prisond nor like what SHUTTER was able to produce...

My guy spent a lot of money and time after we corresponded with the prison - only to be turned away when he arrived...ORDERS!

Shutter produces the information for me 9 yrs later - after the FBI Had refused to make the file available.

This thread had the same information made available to me by Ckret in 2004 - and it did NOT resemble the information that has now been acquired.

I BEGGED on the PHONE and on the thread and in private emails...you guys wonder WHY I had it in for Ckret?

Shutter produced the file in 2013!
It contained the one thing I BEGGED for from Ckret - the intake photo, but not the out take. The the intake should caused the FBI to relook at Weber.


I still think we are entangled in the quantum. Maybe its the torsionial effects of the Vortex. All that spinning...

...it can put a blade of grass into a telephone pole. Just ask G-1 - he'll tell ya.

[RPG83 0]

Thank you all.

Apparently the genomic way is not the way to find DB. I was thinking more about the judicial side of such investigative method but now I see that even the technical side would be problematic. It's a shame those cigarette butts have been lost.

I want expand my idea about the own parachute thing. According to Wikipedia flight 305 took off from Portland at 2:50 pm PST. The exact time DB passed the demand note to Schaffner is not told (in Wikipedia at least) but I believe it's safe to assume it was soon after that. The flight 305 landed at Sea-Tac at 5:39 pm, and took off at about 7:40 pm. The authorities got almost five hours' notice of his parachute jump! If Cooper had initially required only the money and fuel and a getaway car at location X, his jump would have become more as a surprise, IMHO. Well, Paul Cini had tried it before but didn't it take more time to scramble the parachutes than the money? Why give them any more time than necessary for planning and organizing a ground search? In my opinion this indicates that Cooper was not a professional skydiver, and was probably broke, too.


For those who believe Christiansen was DB: has his former house been searched thoroughly? Is there any chance of hidden ransom? I was just thinking if it would be possible to go through it once more with a money tracking dog (presuming the current owner permits it, no sane judge is going to issue warrant for that). Although I believe the scent may have diminished in 40 years (and it probably smells different from today's currency) but you can't find without trying.

https://www.poliisi.fi/poliisi/pkoira/home.nsf/pebd/C2182C66B4F95C22C2257B4800219540?opendocument

http://coinsweekly.com/index.php?pid=4&id=2901

[Danielle1010 0]

What do you mean about kenny selling logs

[georger 197]

RPG83

Thank you all.

Apparently the genomic way is not the way to find DB. I was thinking more about the judicial side of such investigative method but now I see that even the technical side would be problematic. It's a shame those cigarette butts have been lost.

I want expand my idea about the own parachute thing. According to Wikipedia flight 305 took off from Portland at 2:50 pm PST. The exact time DB passed the demand note to Schaffner is not told (in Wikipedia at least) but I believe it's safe to assume it was soon after that. The flight 305 landed at Sea-Tac at 5:39 pm, and took off at about 7:40 pm. The authorities got almost five hours' notice of his parachute jump! If Cooper had initially required only the money and fuel and a getaway car at location X, his jump would have become more as a surprise, IMHO. Well, Paul Cini had tried it before but didn't it take more time to scramble the parachutes than the money? Why give them any more time than necessary for planning and organizing a ground search? In my opinion this indicates that Cooper was not a professional skydiver, and was probably broke, too.


For those who believe Christiansen was DB: has his former house been searched thoroughly? Is there any chance of hidden ransom? I was just thinking if it would be possible to go through it once more with a money tracking dog (presuming the current owner permits it, no sane judge is going to issue warrant for that). Although I believe the scent may have diminished in 40 years (and it probably smells different from today's currency) but you can't find without trying.

https://www.poliisi.fi/poliisi/pkoira/home.nsf/pebd/C2182C66B4F95C22C2257B4800219540?opendocument

http://coinsweekly.com/index.php?pid=4&id=2901

Once again, Ckret (and others) were not convinced the
butts were lost, but more likely in the system somewhere.
Pending a definitive statement, people who want the butts to go
away will continue to insist "the butts are lost", just as a few
years ago the same people insisted "the FBI has no dna evidence
at all" then news of the tie samples surfaced by some curious
route involving degrees of separation!

What is a fact, is that in 1971 agents/LE at Reno and elsewhere
were not deeply trained in modern 'evidence and evidence
collection', as a rule. General rules applied. The emphasis was on
finger prints and gross physical evidence, serological testing, hair
and fibre analysis etc, eg. the FBI even tried to pull finger prints
off the degraded Cooper bills using chemical methods; which
contaminated these bills forever! In 1971 Dna testing and the
preservation of dna materials was virtually nonexistent in law
enforcement!

The first act using the forensic methods of the day would have
been to look for Cooper's fingerprints on the cigarette butts -
not dna. Dna analysis arose years later but by then the prior
finger printing methods employed probably compromised any dna
evidence on the butts! So, the issue of butts being lost or not
may be irrelevant, in any event!

"In 1998, the FBI Laboratory began using DNA testing in forensic
cases. Prior to 1998, serological testing was used in detecting,
characterizing, and attributing bodily fluid stains found on
evidence submitted to the laboratory. The first DNA tests were
used primarily in the same fashion and with the same purpose as
the serological test..." http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/lab/biometric-analysis/dna-nuclear

"1986 - First use of forensic DNA analysis in criminal case in United States: Pennsylvania v.Pestinikas

1987 - First person convicted as a result of DNA evidence –
Tommy Lee Andrews

1988 - First TWGDAM Meeting held at FBI Academy in Quantico, VA.

See: http://www.swgdam.org/History%20of%20QA%20%20SWGDAM%20Jan%202013.pdf

So, when we get critical about the cigarette butts saying the
FBI should have done this or that etc., it's well to understand
what actual protocols were in force in 1971, and the timeline of
actual historical development of which we are all a part, vs.
results in today's world now (vastly different than just a few
years ago).

For example the latest generation of PCR techniques was not
even available just a few years ago. PCR techniques are vital to
any dna sampling which must occur to reveal ANY dna data!
The techniques used today were not even in people's dreams
in 1971, just to add some perspective on these matters! The
techniques and quality of data used between 1986-90
(referenced above) was very crude vs. what is available today.

[georger 197]

BruceSmith

Quote

Loci used for the Codis-13 test and the level of confidence (stringency) required, are:

D8S1179 Moderate

D21S11 High

D7S820 Moderate

CSF1PO Moderate

D3S1358 High

TH01 Moderate

D13S317 Moderate

D16S539 Moderate

VWA Moderate

TPOX Moderate

D18S51 Moderate

D5S818 Moderate

FGA High


Please read further at the same link I gave before:

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/lab/biometric-analysis/codis/codis-and-ndis-fact-sheet

So, how many markers are available in saliva, such as found on cigarette butts as compared to epithelial cells?

The "markers" tested for are the same in both cases. The
genetic material being searched is the same.

The genetic material is in cells conveyed in saliva, skin cells,
sweat, or some other bio product from a person. What matters
is the health (viability) of those cells and the amount of
degradation which has occurred in those cells over time. But the
markers you search for are the same in all cases.

[BruceSmith 3]

Greetings Everyone,

I met with Sean Patrick Walsh today in Eatonville to discuss his new book on DB Cooper: "Final Suspect."

Sean's a young guy and readily admits his work is a rough and raw beginning. It's short - only 44 pages or so, and it's light on evidence for a variety of reasons, such as resistance from family who don't want to go public, or he doesn't have a Snowmman in his corner (yet) who can give him leads and contact information.

I read Final Suspect last night and it's a worthy effort, but it is just as much a story about Sean's family as it is about Norjak. In fact, Sean knows only rudimentary stuff about DBC - think Robert Blevins in the early days, but with good manners and a friendly disposition.

I've encouraged Sean to join us here, and he did a double take when I told him he is already being discussed here! I suggested that he first read the DZ section in the "Who's Who" of my book, which he has, and I believe he will do so.

Sean is also a film maker and is interested in making YouTube clips of his discoveries and journey along the Norjak Highway.

I also gave Sean some leads on how he might obtain information on his suspect, Duane Dick Jarman, such as height, weight, build, etc, which he had discounted initially.

In short, Final Suspect is the story of Sean's mother's family and how it befriended Duane-2. It's an interesting story - one of warmth, trust, and growth - where men struggle to grow beyond alcohol and conning the world.

I hope he continues to tell us his family's story.

[georger 197]

RobertMBlevins

***Thank you all.

Apparently the genomic way is not the way to find DB. I was thinking more about the judicial side of such investigative method but now I see that even the technical side would be problematic. It's a shame those cigarette butts have been lost.

I want expand my idea about the own parachute thing. According to Wikipedia flight 305 took off from Portland at 2:50 pm PST. The exact time DB passed the demand note to Schaffner is not told (in Wikipedia at least) but I believe it's safe to assume it was soon after that. The flight 305 landed at Sea-Tac at 5:39 pm, and took off at about 7:40 pm. The authorities got almost five hours' notice of his parachute jump! If Cooper had initially required only the money and fuel and a getaway car at location X, his jump would have become more as a surprise, IMHO. Well, Paul Cini had tried it before but didn't it take more time to scramble the parachutes than the money? Why give them any more time than necessary for planning and organizing a ground search? In my opinion this indicates that Cooper was not a professional skydiver, and was probably broke, too.


For those who believe Christiansen was DB: has his former house been searched thoroughly? Is there any chance of hidden ransom? I was just thinking if it would be possible to go through it once more with a money tracking dog (presuming the current owner permits it, no sane judge is going to issue warrant for that). Although I believe the scent may have diminished in 40 years (and it probably smells different from today's currency) but you can't find without trying.

https://www.poliisi.fi/poliisi/pkoira/home.nsf/pebd/C2182C66B4F95C22C2257B4800219540?opendocument

http://coinsweekly.com/index.php?pid=4&id=2901

Anything regarding DNA that ends up posted here, there is no doubt Georger is the best-informed on this angle. The only thing I have is the phone calls and the emails from Seattle-office Special Agent Fred Gutt. (There was a time when the Seattle FBI was much more open to Cooper case inquiries than now.)

I had sent a question to the case agent, who was NOT Gutt, but Gutt being the media relations agent, he was the one with the reply. I asked him two questions. First, had the FBI run the sample they took from Christiansen's brother during a visit to his home in Morris, MN? (To get a profile) Second, what exactly was their current DNA profile, the one extracted from the tie, telling them.

Gutt said that no, Lyle Christiansen's DNA had not been profiled. Then he said that the current profile from the tie could ELIMINATE a suspect when compared to that suspect's full DNA profile, but it could not CONFIRM them 100% as the hijacker. It was a 'partial profile' he said. For anything else on that...see Georger, or try asking the Seattle office.



and I thought your parachute pdf last night was a good succinct
statement of the current understanding of that matter -
amazing, we agree for a change.

[skyjack71 0]

Robert99

***Exwife states that for 2 months they worked for San Diego Aircraft in CA - now do not understand what yr the note are referring to.

Jo, Specifically what job functions did Duane perform when he was supposedly working for San Diego Aircraft? Don't give me a run around on this point. Just the facts, Jo. Give you answer some thought before replying. I imagine you can figure out why.

Robert99


Not sure MJ had the name correct so I just used what she said over the phone....I do not remember what she said - but, I have another spiral of with notes from my conversations with her...if it was repeated twice then it was SanDiego Aircraft - remember all I had was a phone back then & no computer to research things.

Many of the notes are scribbles I took listening to a woman 3 sheets in the wind from 12 midnight to 2 AM in the morning my time. Many times these conversations went on until 3 AM and I had to be at work at 9 AM.

Duane mentioned he & MJ working for a company that delivered meals and did clean ups...but I have NO idea where that was....it was at that time he told me about the rear stairs being used for this purpose. I posted on this before & I put more faith in what I said yrs ago.

Will pull the old spirals & see if I can find more. My recall yrs ago is better than my current recall on details. I know this was mentioned more than one time in the conversations.

MJ did not specify what he or they did...but, my thinking is she said he.

So I do not know if I am dealing with 2 past employments or one.

In my relating this in the past, 377 questioned me on this, but do NOT remember the exchanges - perhaps he will have better recall than I have....I depend on the scribbled notes when in doubt.

The last yr or two when she was in a facility after her health failed...she had no access. I refused to give her my phone number after I remarried in 2002 - because my husband would never have tolerated the late/early calls.

I made a point to call her to check on her but, standing in the yard I could NOT make notes...

Therefore all notes are from 1997 to 2002....before I was exposed to the media & this thread...so the NOTES are not derived from contaminated information obtained in a thread or a computer.

If you have the resources I can give you in a PM some of the names she used and he used. He of course probably was John Collins unless he acquired other identification and I assume they had to have identification in the 60's for employment - I believe an SS was required...I have the SS number for the John Collins he used, but do NOT know if the FBI ever cross referenced the employment of the Real John Collins with the identity Duane evidently stole...a man cannot be employed in La and Ca at the same time.

When I tried to do my own - all they gave was amounts & not the locations. THE GOVERNMENT should have had a way to track the sources 18 yrs ago when presented Weber/Cooper/Collins.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[carderplanet36V 0]

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[377 20]

From FBI report:

Quote

Mr. Norman Hayden, Hayden Manufacturing Company, Renton, advised that two back pack
parachutes which were his property, were furnished to Northwest Airlines. He stated that he
called a taxicab in Kent, Washington, and had the taxi cab deliver the parachutes to Boeing
Flight Service, Seattle. He described the two back pack parachutes as follows:1) Civilian luxury type, tan soft cotton material outside, 26-foot white canopy inside. The
parachute inside is a military parachute. The parachute has a foam pad cushion and a fray
mark down the rib on the back from rubbing on metal.
2) A military back pack parachute, standard olive-drab green on outside, 28-foot white
canopy on inside. He stated that this parachute also has a foam pad cushion.

I thought Norman said the canopies were identical and were purchased by him at a surplus store in WA. The FBI report has Norman saying one was a 28 ft (presumably C9) and the other a 26 ft (presumably Navy Conical).

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[Danielle1010 0]

Robert i didn't come to dropzone to make other members mad I just wanted to spend time with you

[BruceSmith 3]

377

From FBI report:

Quote

Mr. Norman Hayden, Hayden Manufacturing Company, Renton, advised that two back pack
parachutes which were his property, were furnished to Northwest Airlines. He stated that he
called a taxicab in Kent, Washington, and had the taxi cab deliver the parachutes to Boeing
Flight Service, Seattle. He described the two back pack parachutes as follows:1) Civilian luxury type, tan soft cotton material outside, 26-foot white canopy inside. The
parachute inside is a military parachute. The parachute has a foam pad cushion and a fray
mark down the rib on the back from rubbing on metal.
2) A military back pack parachute, standard olive-drab green on outside, 28-foot white
canopy on inside. He stated that this parachute also has a foam pad cushion.

I thought Norman said the canopies were identical and were purchased by him at a surplus store in WA. The FBI report has Norman saying one was a 28 ft (presumably C9) and the other a 26 ft (presumably Navy Conical).

377

Further, T-S-S, Norman told me that he had never spoken to anyone from the FBI and has no idea how they got this information. When I read Norman the above account he was agast.

Clearly, no one in the FBI was fact-checking this report in 1971 or since, and this report, as written, has been accepted as fact even though it is gobbilygook.

In addition, Larry Carr apparantly never read this report and has always accepted Earl Cossey's version of events, namely that he owned the chutes and they were different, as described above.

Lastly, Geoffrey never told Larry of this discrepancy, apparently, nor told any of us, and I think the whole world was blind-sided when GG revealed that Norman Hayden owned the chutes.

I know I was astonished to read GG's claim.

When I called Cossey to clarify this matter and asked him why he had sent the chutes to Boeing Field instead of Sea-Tac, as he had long-claimed, he abruptly hung-up on me, but not before he shouted, "Fuck You."

That was the last time I spoke with Coss before he got whacked. It's been 16 months since Coss went to the Blue Skies and still we await the findings of the major case squad at the King County Sheriff's Office.

But Geoffrey's revelation of who truly owned the DB Cooper parachutes may have put Cossey's entire credibility into question and the relationship between him and the FBI began to unravel. Coss may have tried to hold on to his reputation and status in Norjak, and his resisttence may have gotten him killed.

Hence, the above report shows the beginnings of a murder.

Interesting, eh?

I wonder how many other conversatsions have taken place on this episode, and where they took place. This is only place I know where Cossey's muder is actively discussed....and people say that nothing valuable happens anymore on the DZ. HA!

[BruceSmith 3]

Update on Duane Dick Jarman, aka, "Duane-2"

I received an email from Sean this morning and I was surprised to learn that he is apparently retiring from the Norjak saga. He wrote, "I have told the story that I want to tell."

So, I guess that's it.

But my heart is big enough for two Duanes. Two RHs and a Bobby B, too, along with Mrs Cooper, of course.

[skyjack71 0]

WHY DO YOU NOT REPLY TO BLEVINS IN A PRIVATE EMAIL OR THRU HIS REGULAR EMAIL.

WHY CONTINUE TO EXPOSE YOURSELF TO DANGERS IN AN ADULT FORUM. WHERE ARE YOUR PARENTS?
ANSWER ME IN A PM OR AT MY EMAIL ADDRESS.

YOU AND I - GRANDMOTHER TO GRANDSON - NEED TO TALK....YOU NEED TO GET SOME HELP WITH YOUR SITUATION.

FIRST I HAVE TO KNOW IF YOU ARE REAL OR JUST SOME INDIVIDUAL SET UP BY BLEVINS AS A BUFFER FOR THE FRICTION HE GETS ABOUT HIS THEORY.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[skyjack71 0]

RobertMBlevins

I also interviewed Norman by telephone. He said he didn't know that much about parachutes and only bought them because it was required if you did stunt flying. He was more or less forced to buy them. Said he never saw inside them, only Cossey the packer. He had me re-type the document and send it to him. He said he was going to frame it and put it in his office. In his emails, when he first saw the document, he didn't say anything about it being inaccurate.

I think the report is accurate. Hayden may not have spoken to the FBI, but he did speak extensively with an NWA rep. I would have to check my notes on who, but I remember he was a 'known' name at the airline. Hayden made them sign a paper saying the chutes were only being RENTED to NWA, not given to them and he wanted them back. Years later, he said, he had a lawyer put in a request to have the remaining chute returned, which the FBI finally did. I also believe Hayden said NWA did pay the rental fee, but Hayden was not happy when the FBI kept the remaining chute as evidence. The rental fee was less than the value of the chutes.

These chutes were not Cossey's, but Hayden's, although Cossey was certainly the re-packer. Maybe the FBI got the chute info by taking notes when they arrived and by speaking to Cossey later. He would known their size, etc.

Have to say...I don't think Cossey's murder had anything to do with the Cooper case. The cops have admitted that things were missing from the house. It's most likely Cossey interrupted a burglary in progress. But I can't figure out how the hell the cops haven't gotten a single lead on it yet. WTF? Get to effin' work.

Your post was very accurate as it matches what Hayden told me on the phone before 2000. Before others had a chance to MESS with him or elaborate and add to what he had to say!

BRAVO, Belvins! BEST damn post you EVER made - but maybe that is because what you stated is EXACTLY what Hayden told me.

YET, Brucie has ADDED to all of this and then twisted it to fit his own agenda...NOTHING he writes is factual in all aspects. BRUCIE adds his own twist to stories told to him.

NOTE I ASKED BRUCE IF HE PROVIDED HAYDEN A COPY FOR APPROVAL AND HE MADE NO ANSWER. Therefore BRUCIE's accounting is NOT accurate as I am sure if Hayden was aware BRUCIE was writing a book, he would have REQUIRED he had a final word on the accuracy of what Bruce was going to publish or make public.
.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[Danielle1010 0]

Jo listen to me I am a real person and I just wanted to hang out with him

[skyjack71 0]

Danielle1010

Jo listen to me I am a real person and I just wanted to hang out with him

Sweetie, you can hangout with Blevins by phone, emails or PM's. I just do NOT feel it is appropriate for your communications to be so public.

The internet is a very vulnerable thing and I along with many others here are concerned about your being in this thread as your preoccupation with one person...just does NOT seem normal...

Also some of your postings when you talk about pissing on a grave are NOT appropriate & makes you seem very vunerable. Your conduct is not healty and I do NOT believe your parents are aware of your participation here.

I am a concerned grandmother of a grandchild with a similar condition - AND if your parents knew you were here in this adult forum - Do you think they would approve? My grand-daughter is 24 and I would NOT want her posting here....

I am concerned for your safety and your health and well being.
I am VERY concerned that if you are truely a young man with a disability that your internet actions & participation need to be monitored by your parents.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber