DB Cooper

[BruceSmith 3]

mrshutter45

******"You know I'd be lying if I said I didn't have mixed thoughts about Tina - the part that she played in all of this, the whole life-under-the-radar persona, the nun thing, and the universal "hands-off" approach almost since the beginning. I'll admit the cynical part of me says there is more than meets the eye, but in the end - I think that she is probably mischaracterized on this forum a lot."

Loved to have been a fly on the wall of 305 what happened with the Engineer dude? where did he go, alive/dead? Alice? did Jo copy/paste them onto her post and they went poof lol.

Flight Engineer (and now Captain) Andy Anderson and Alice Hancock are both still alive. That is what I hear from Galen. He says he has spoken to both of them at length, and Alice agreed to help Galen make contact with Tina.

Alas, Tina rebuffed Alice, according to Galen.

Galen has also asked me to respect his position pitching his book and his investment in finding these two indivuduals. As a result, he has not given me the contact information for them, and I have been unable to find either one of them on my own.

As for a raging recluse. Tina is unique. She is quite selective on who, when and where she rages. She slammed the front door three times when I visisted her in July 2011. To me, one door slam is anger, two is totally pissed off, three is rage.

In addition, I never felt that Tina's anger was directed towards me personally or directly. Rather, I felt she was angry at something else and I simply triggered the association. She didn't make eye contact with me at all when she slammed the door, nor did she ever hurl any epithets towards me. The rage was quite contained. No f-bombs at all, nor any shouting. In fact, no words at all, once she asked me to leave.

Thanks for the picture of Tina, Smokin99. So that is what she looks like when she smiles. Wow.

Thanks Bruce. did either of them comment about the case that you know of. I don't recall reading anything?


No, I don't know what their perspectives are on the case. All I know of them is from my brief conversation with Galen.

G said that they both were quite cordial and conversant. Andy did express a little surprise that no journalists have gone looking for him, and both said they weren't hiding from the press - just not seeking it.

Galen gave me the sense that Andy has some unique ideas about the case and is wating for someone to ask him the right questions. Hopefully, Galen did.

[georger 197]

BruceSmith

*********"You know I'd be lying if I said I didn't have mixed thoughts about Tina - the part that she played in all of this, the whole life-under-the-radar persona, the nun thing, and the universal "hands-off" approach almost since the beginning. I'll admit the cynical part of me says there is more than meets the eye, but in the end - I think that she is probably mischaracterized on this forum a lot."

Loved to have been a fly on the wall of 305 what happened with the Engineer dude? where did he go, alive/dead? Alice? did Jo copy/paste them onto her post and they went poof lol.

Flight Engineer (and now Captain) Andy Anderson and Alice Hancock are both still alive. That is what I hear from Galen. He says he has spoken to both of them at length, and Alice agreed to help Galen make contact with Tina.

Alas, Tina rebuffed Alice, according to Galen.

Galen has also asked me to respect his position pitching his book and his investment in finding these two indivuduals. As a result, he has not given me the contact information for them, and I have been unable to find either one of them on my own.

As for a raging recluse. Tina is unique. She is quite selective on who, when and where she rages. She slammed the front door three times when I visisted her in July 2011. To me, one door slam is anger, two is totally pissed off, three is rage.

In addition, I never felt that Tina's anger was directed towards me personally or directly. Rather, I felt she was angry at something else and I simply triggered the association. She didn't make eye contact with me at all when she slammed the door, nor did she ever hurl any epithets towards me. The rage was quite contained. No f-bombs at all, nor any shouting. In fact, no words at all, once she asked me to leave.

Thanks for the picture of Tina, Smokin99. So that is what she looks like when she smiles. Wow.

Thanks Bruce. did either of them comment about the case that you know of. I don't recall reading anything?


No, I don't know what their perspectives are on the case. All I know of them is from my brief conversation with Galen.

G said that they both were quite cordial and conversant. Andy did express a little surprise that no journalists have gone looking for him, and both said they weren't hiding from the press - just not seeking it.

Galen gave me the sense that Andy has some unique ideas about the case and is wating for someone to ask him the right questions. Hopefully, Galen did.

Time to call Bob!

[Robert99 37]

skyjack71

The flight path thing - frankly I had a very hard time trying to figure out what you intended and if you were working the right material.

I based things about the flight from the things witnesses reported and these witnessess still stand by their original reports...they put the flight further EAST than was was reported - the sound of the plane and as the plane passed over.

Even the maps of the search area are dead on with what I was told about the possible points Cooper landed and those maps agree with the areas I have talked about.

YOU made it sound like the Plane was more toward the Interstate and to the West and that is NOT what the SEARCH area outlined on the maps used by the men on the ground looking for Cooper indicated.

Pictures and marked Maps and witnesses reports. Does your information CONTRADICT the map recently posted indicating the possible land zone for Cooper?

Jo, You apparently didn't understand a single thing I wrote.

The Seattle air traffic controllers knew where the airliner was ever minute it was in their control area. It was their business to know that.

Your stories about people on the ground seeing and hearing an aircraft that was two miles above them through several cloud layers and a complete overcast is beyond belief.

Why is all of the information necessary to determine the flight path of the hijacked airliner missing from the Seattle ATC transcripts?

You claim to have knowledge of the actual flight path.

Then just explain why the FBI felt it was necessary to remove that information from the radio transcripts?

Jo, you need to read my post again. You are just sticking your head in the sand because it doesn't support your claims about Duane.

Robert99

[skyjack71 0]

Quote

Galen has also asked me to respect his position pitching his book and his investment in finding these two indivuduals. As a result, he has not given me the contact information for them, and I have been unable to find either one of them on my own.

WEll if Galen asked YOU to do this - then he better be READY to prove he found Tina

REMIND THE SNEAKY SNAKE IN THE GRASS THAT I STILL HAVE HIS LETTER WHERE HE BEGGED AND SCHEMED TRYING TO GET TINA's address and phone number FROM ME! I SAVED EVERYONE OF HIS COMMUNICATION - THEY ARE IN BLACK AND WHITE AND IN A VERY LARGE NOTE BOOK. Some are on the computer.

HIS investment! POO!

I have an email he wrote to me in which he tells me about how he went to Tina's place of work with a hard luck story - he didn't tell her who he was! Perhaps I need to copy that one and mail it to Tina and to Alice so they can see exactly what they are dealing with. In fact I will send a copy to the FBI. They are printed and on paper and I will be GLAD to present them to a TV station to PROVE what a SNEAKY SNAKE he is!

I expect the FBI might be interested in his intentions after he used the FBI to gain access to records.

So I guess he is trying to wait until I die - huh. Well I will be sure a copy is made and sent to some others who have been working on this.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[skyjack71 0]

Robert99

Those ATC transcripts were acquired by NW as they claimed they need them for insurance purposes, but supposedly PDX had a copy - a bunch of shit went missing. Did you ever read what I tried to tell regarding my conversation with a man at PDX? THINGS came up missing!

I was told about a ATC out of Atlanta who was on loan to WA - I don't know if it was PDX or Seattle. One of the ATC's out of Atlanta had the only copy left of this. IF I told you how I know this you would think I was really OFF my ROCKER. I didn't understand the conversation from then - but now I do understand. .

I didn't understand what was being picked up. It was the last copy - I thought it was a roller thing. I do not know what he did with it or who he was taking it to or who it was for.
I have to be hallucinating...I remember what happened, but do not know who he was taking it to. I am not supposed to know this!

It was which ever one of the airports that had a shortage of ATC at that time. The man was back in Alt.
I didn't know what it was all about and now that I am remembering it - I am scared. I am not supposed to know these things. I didn't know what it was. GOD why am I remembering this shit. Why is all of the information necessary to determine the flight path of the hijacked airliner missing from the Seattle ATC transcripts? I had it I held it in my hands I asked what it was. I was told it was not
[email]important but from a plane. I am alone and ask what it is. The man explained what it was and I had it in my hands.
- it had to have been after he died. I think I am going crazy! I can't be remembering this - I remembered part of it when this was brought up before but I thought we were taking something to someone else I thought we were in Atl from Co but it was after that - we were living Va or AL . He kept it - but why did he need it or want it. I didn't understand what it was.
Explain why the FBI felt it was necessary to remove that information from the radio transcripts? I read the post again - now I am hallunciating. This is not real. Why am I remember this shit. No I am not sticking my head in sand - I didn't know what it was I think the man bought it or I gave it away or I threw it away.

I am sorry I do NOT understand a thing I just typed - I just know I am not supposed to know the things. I gave it away or sold it to some one - he knew what it was. but who did I give ti to. This was before I realized who Dan Cooper was. It was just Garbage to me.
what why am i rememderig this is is movin on the page it is as it has a power of it own as a power of own what does it mean who did i give it to. What does this mean l
I am loosing my mind I can be rembering things I don't want know more - please stop please.
"Stop I dont wnat to type any mored not nowmore please make it stop I can't understand stop dont make me type anymore I am afraid/; stop read wait.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[georger 197]

RobertMBlevins

No, Shutter...that is not what I meant. I think the wood stain on the scrap piece came from KC

Georger: There IS no answer to your question on 'what is the attic box for?' No one knows for sure. Nothing was found inside it by the Decoded crew.

And now, just a few hours later you are contradicting your
statement made earlier above and saying what you originally
argued for here, starting in 2010, namely:

As I said, too bad there wasn't a twenty dollar bill from a
famous 34-page list in the box when Decoded found it.
If Kenny is actually BE Cooper...then you'll know where he
probably hid the money and why he built the box. Then I sell
that sucker quick on eBay. (*laughs*)

And you have the gall to talk about other people's credibility?
I knew if I just waited a few hours you would come back here
and reverse yourself, like trolls do.

A key argument you made in your KC case - is now dead!
And one more piece of your credibility dead, not that there was
much for you to lose at this point so late in your game ...

Your motives are perfectly clear! Then I sell
that sucker quick on eBay.[laughs]

[mrshutter45 21]

RobertMBlevins

***I took a piece of wood (pine) about 3" x 6" and applied stain to it along with a clear coating, and glue for evaluation. it's not stain on the back of the piece of wood. I only used a toothpick to apply it with. very small area. hopefully you won't add that it is stain from the already troubled piece of evidence, or that Kenny also stained the cabinets.

see photo....

Jo, I believe smoke99 posted that pic....

Okay...but you don't have the original and I do. It's a bit different when you can hold something in your hand and check it out up-close and personal. I keep it inside a couple of white garbage bags in the closet. And yes...looks like wood stain marks on the white side of the board, a few similar ones on the back. One thing is for sure, the board itself is a scrap. It's not a piece that was never used. In other words, it was from old, pulled-out countertop.

I don't think it matters much though. Can't prove much about it. As I said, too bad there wasn't a twenty dollar bill from a famous 34-page list in the box when Decoded found it. As evidence it is frankly worthless. If Kenny is ever discovered to actually BE Cooper...then you'll know where he probably hid the money and why he built the box. Then I sell that sucker quick on eBay. (*laughs*) Otherwise, it is moot.


Robert, I don't have to see it in person. it doesn't have the characteristics of wood stain. it soaks into wood and will blotch. you can't paint a circle or anything of that nature because it will bleed rather than form. the color is not even close to the cabinets. you said this " Those have a shine to them. I don't know" wood stain does not have a shine to it. I can tell by the different natural colors in the wood that are darker than what you are calling the same color as the cabinets. it's not stain, or even a match in color.

you never answered the original question that was asked....

The original question was you claimed for some reason you didn't want to go to Bonney lake. also you mentioned Law enforcement should go into the attic and look. you later claimed you went up there? at that point you didn't seem to have knowledge of being up there, or you would have known there was no hinges. then replied nobody would believe you. it's sounds like you hadn't been in the attic? "Not a chance would I go near Bonney Lake to check this out " little confusing... later you claimed you went into the attic right after Decoded left for L.A. this implies it was rather quick that you went up there, and yet you give a different story conflicting that report. why would you have to go back to check out something you should have already known?

my point is that you went into the attic not long after Decoded, but then when someone wanted to know if hinges were up there, you were making sure what type hinges were there implying that you were never up
there in the first place. "Make sure to note if they are righthand or lefthand hinges. It matters.

very confusing and fishy.

what exactly are right/left handed hinges?

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[mrshutter45 21]

You kind of help confirm the story of the piece of wood being from the kitchen demolition. in the picture you claim three sides were jagged and appear to be fresher than the straight cut. this is due to the fact of the piece being cut while in place. the straight clean cut would be the front or back of the top. they hacked it up not bothering with damaging the top due ti it being destroyed, or dismantled.

don't you find it a least bit strange that Decoded found the spot within a minute? they went right to the spot where the wood was above them? then they failed to show the opening in it's entirety sugar coating it more with false claims of hinges. they glossed right over something that should have been detailed. similar to the crack at the start of the show of the briefcase possibly being the actual case. the piece was partially on top of the insulation leading one to believe it hasn't been there long. it's probable because the insulation doesn't appear to be from that time period. it looks new. I would guess the house originally had plaster walls being built in the 40's. I seen visible drywall tape used to splice the pieces together visible in the ceiling (poorly done) the house has changed dramatically over time. interior changes, repairs in the attic, vents added to the roof and eve's, windows replaced with different dimensions. the home was converted to a business over a decade ago. if the insulation is from a different time period. how did the piece remain up there and get in between the new insulation? it should have been completely covered, but it wasn't. I don't trust these shows anymore than you trust people on this thread....

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[airtwardo 6]

Quote

I think he has a responsibility to society and all taxpayers to communicate on a case that he is intimately familiar with. After all, we paid him - and continue to pay him in a pension - to deliver a measure of justice. I don't think he is keeping his end of the bargain.

Really Bruce?

I was trying to give ya the benefit of doubt regarding the issue of your ethics in journalism...but I think you're way off base if that's how you really feel.

A civil servant has just as much right to privacy as any 'normal' citizen...a RETIRED one so much the more.

Brings to mind the discussions about Neal Armstrong - Journalists always pined that 'we taxpayers' spent a pretty shiny dime sending him to the moon, he OWES us and the American people interviews, access, autographs...on & on.

Well...NO he did NOT. He was simply a man hired o do a job, nowhere in the job description did it say anything about 'owing reporters' access to his life ~ ESPECIALLY during retirement.


Your thinking on this is rather convoluted, and what's REALLY scary is you don't seem to know it.

The pen is a pretty mighty tool. Thing is, like any tool it can be used to build or tear down.

When you attempt to use it for retribution against someone merely wishing to exercise their constitutionally guaranteed rights...that's crossing a line of both ethics & decency.

Your comment surprises me, and not in a good way. I urge you to reconsider that line of thinking.

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[Amazon 7]

airtwardo

Quote

I think he has a responsibility to society and all taxpayers to communicate on a case that he is intimately familiar with. After all, we paid him - and continue to pay him in a pension - to deliver a measure of justice. I don't think he is keeping his end of the bargain.

Really Bruce?

I was trying to give ya the benefit of doubt regarding the issue of your ethics in journalism...but I think you're way off base if that's how you really feel.

A civil servant has just as much right to privacy as any 'normal' citizen...a RETIRED one so much the more.

Brings to mind the discussions about Neal Armstrong - Journalists always pined that 'we taxpayers' spent a pretty shiny dime sending him to the moon, he OWES us and the American people interviews, access, autographs...on & on.

Well...NO he did NOT. He was simply a man hired o do a job, nowhere in the job description did it say anything about 'owing reporters' access to his life ~ ESPECIALLY during retirement.


Your thinking on this is rather convoluted, and what's REALLY scary is you don't seem to know it.

The pen is a pretty mighty tool. Thing is, like any tool it can be used to build or tear down.

When you attempt to use it for retribution against someone merely wishing to exercise their constitutionally guaranteed rights...that's crossing a line of both ethics & decency.

Your comment surprises me, and not in a good way. I urge you to reconsider that line of thinking.

{{{{{{{{{{ LIKE }}}}}}}}}}

[377 20]

Although there's no foul committed in requesting a job related interview with a retired FBI agent I agree with Airtwardo. When you retire you are off duty. If info in the possession of a retiree is really critical to solving a criminal case a subpoena can be issued. If it's a civil case you can take a deposition.

Being a cop is a stressful occupation. I can see where you'd want to hang up the badge and get out of that environment permanently when you retire.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[matthewcline 0]

airtwardo

Quote

I think he has a responsibility to society and all taxpayers to communicate on a case that he is intimately familiar with. After all, we paid him - and continue to pay him in a pension - to deliver a measure of justice. I don't think he is keeping his end of the bargain.

Really Bruce?

I was trying to give ya the benefit of doubt regarding the issue of your ethics in journalism...but I think you're way off base if that's how you really feel.

A civil servant has just as much right to privacy as any 'normal' citizen...a RETIRED one so much the more.

Brings to mind the discussions about Neal Armstrong - Journalists always pined that 'we taxpayers' spent a pretty shiny dime sending him to the moon, he OWES us and the American people interviews, access, autographs...on & on.

Well...NO he did NOT. He was simply a man hired o do a job, nowhere in the job description did it say anything about 'owing reporters' access to his life ~ ESPECIALLY during retirement.


Your thinking on this is rather convoluted, and what's REALLY scary is you don't seem to know it.

The pen is a pretty mighty tool. Thing is, like any tool it can be used to build or tear down.

When you attempt to use it for retribution against someone merely wishing to exercise their constitutionally guaranteed rights...that's crossing a line of both ethics & decency.

Your comment surprises me, and not in a good way. I urge you to reconsider that line of thinking.

I wish to echo this.

Matt

An Instructors first concern is student safety.
So, start being safe, first!!!

[Robert99 37]

skyjack71

Robert99

Those ATC transcripts were acquired by NW as they claimed they need them for insurance purposes, but supposedly PDX had a copy - a bunch of shit went missing.
. . . . . . . . . .

Explain why the FBI felt it was necessary to remove that information from the radio transcripts?
. . . . . . . . . .

I am sorry I do NOT understand a thing I just typed - I just know I am not supposed to know the things. What does this mean l I am loosing my mind I can be rembering things I don't want know more - please stop please.
"Stop I dont wnat to type any mored not nowmore please make it stop I can't understand stop dont make me type anymore I am afraid/; stop read wait.

Jo, I have deleted a lot of your extraneous remarks from the above post.

There were many copies made of the original Seattle ATC radio transcripts related to the hijacked flight. In fact, the FBI's copy was not the original one. The Xerox copiers were in mass production prior to the hijacking.

Your comments about a fellow that Duane allegedly knew and who allegedly worked in the PDX tower are meaningless. The PDX tower personnel did not talk to the airliner during the flight from Seattle to Reno. Nor did they talk to it after it was hijacked on the flight to Seattle from PDX.

The Seattle Air Traffic Control Center handled those communications until the airliner was in Northern California at which point it was handed off to the Oakland Air Traffic Control Center.

Why did the FBI delete the position information from the Seattle radio transcripts they publicly released? It could have been a simple CYA action. More idealistically, the FBI might have been trying to prevent other people from attempting to find any remaining portions of the ransom money.

After reading your other comments and unless you are just playing some of the games you are so famous for, I would suggest that you get an emergency appointment with your shrink.

But I told you that several years ago and things haven't changed a bit have they.

Robert99

[377 20]

Thanks to the generosity of a respected forum
member and fellow jumper, my 727 100 series manual collection is now complete. I have flight and systems manuals. NOTHING in the manuals even hints that the aircraft can be flown with the stairs deployed. I've looked at every relevant page.

No wonder the crew had to ask NWA flight ops and NWA flight ops had to call Boeing to get the answer.

So how did Cooper know? I'm betting he did know. Otherwise that fuselage was an aluminum holding cell. No way out aloft. He'd at best have a hostage standoff at the next landing.

How did he know? Ex Boeing employee? Connected to the Air America Thailand 727 jump tests.

Maybe he didn't know, but his detailed aircraft configuration commands strongly suggest otherwise.

So few did know. Not one crew member knew. NWA flight ops didn't know. Seems like this could narrow the suspect list.

According to Sailshaw Peterson pumped him for 727 airstair info when he roomed at Sailshaws house. When Sail couldn't provide the info (he was working on 737 projects), Peterson then gets a job at Boeing in the technical documents department.

Many years passed until the skyjack was committed. Peterson had an alibi (living in a mud hut in Nepal) but the FBI apparently had doubts about him because they continued to suspect him and only ruled him out after a DNA comparison.

To me Peterson's moral character makes him an unlikely DB Cooper, but everything else looks suspicious. His blue eyes are potentially exculpatory but brown contacts could have been used.

If he was ever charged I'd represent him Pro Bono if he asked. What a trial that would be. And no, I wouldn't write a book or screenplay. It would just be one old jumper helping another one. Wouldn't be the first time I helped a jumper out of a jam.

Sheridan denies that he ever roomed with or knew Sailshaw which is a lie in my opinion. Why lie?

He pulled his novel off the market after some parallels between the story and Norjack were publicized here. One intriguing passage has the hero walking along the Columbia River banks in inadequate footwear during frigid weather. Very odd for a novel centered in Vietnam.

Is it possible that such a suspicious guy had nothing to do with Norjack? Absolutely yes. Same with Mayfield, Braden, Collins and many others who had the right stuff.

That's what makes the Cooper vortex so compelling and maddening.

Carry on. Rant over.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[BruceSmith 3]

airtwardo

Quote

I think he has a responsibility to society and all taxpayers to communicate on a case that he is intimately familiar with. After all, we paid him - and continue to pay him in a pension - to deliver a measure of justice. I don't think he is keeping his end of the bargain.

Really Bruce?

I was trying to give ya the benefit of doubt regarding the issue of your ethics in journalism...but I think you're way off base if that's how you really feel.

A civil servant has just as much right to privacy as any 'normal' citizen...a RETIRED one so much the more.

Brings to mind the discussions about Neal Armstrong - Journalists always pined that 'we taxpayers' spent a pretty shiny dime sending him to the moon, he OWES us and the American people interviews, access, autographs...on & on.

Well...NO he did NOT. He was simply a man hired o do a job, nowhere in the job description did it say anything about 'owing reporters' access to his life ~ ESPECIALLY during retirement.


Your thinking on this is rather convoluted, and what's REALLY scary is you don't seem to know it.

The pen is a pretty mighty tool. Thing is, like any tool it can be used to build or tear down.

When you attempt to use it for retribution against someone merely wishing to exercise their constitutionally guaranteed rights...that's crossing a line of both ethics & decency.

Your comment surprises me, and not in a good way. I urge you to reconsider that line of thinking.

I think the key is finding a balance - how does a public servant share their knowledge in a way that is meaningful, yet not overly intrusive into their own personal lives.

Sometimes, fate places people into the public eye without their their prior consent, such as Tina (and by extention her family) becoming the primary wtiness to Norjak.

Others make decisions that convey a measure of social responsibility, such as being an FBI agent. When you accept the public's money to do a job there are attachments and expectations that come with it - subtle and intangible mostly, but real nevertheless.

Much of this is in a grey area, just as what my responsibility is to be truthful, determined, and yet not be a bully.

Clearly many here, and in editorial offices, too, take issue with my decisions and actions. However, I think my saving grace is that I am committed to hearing the complaints made against me and to apologize and correct statements that are in error or cause unjustified harm.

As for giving people the benefit of the doubt, I ususally hold my more agressive responses in check until someone has proven themselves incapable of civil discourse, such as Jo.

Others, because of their position of holding unique and critical information, such as Tina, Ralph, Ron Nichols, Larry, etc, I hold to a very high expectation of sharing that knowledge. Stonewalling me, or asking 600 bucks a clip for an interview, is not reasonable, especially when someone is picking up 60-grand in a pension for life - AND they turn themselves into quasi public figures by writing books, appearing in documentaries and news clips, and casting themselves as experts in Norjak.

Also, FBI agents, retired or not, who deceive me really get my blood boiling, and I pursue my investigation of them and their actions whether they want to stay in the shadows or not.

Cops who lie to me really make me cranky, and I don't think that is unreasonable.

[BruceSmith 3]

377

Thanks to the generosity of a respected forum
member and fellow jumper, my 727 100 series manual collection is now complete. I have flight and systems manuals. NOTHING in the manuals even hints that the aircraft can be flown with the stairs deployed. I've looked at every relevant page.

No wonder the crew had to ask NWA flight ops and NWA flight ops had to call Boeing to get the answer.

So how did Cooper know? I'm betting he did know. Otherwise that fuselage was an aluminum holding cell. No way out aloft. He'd at best have a hostage standoff at the next landing.

How did he know? Ex Boeing employee? Connected to the Air America Thailand 727 jump tests.

Maybe he didn't know, but his detailed aircraft configuration commands strongly suggest otherwise.

So few did know. Not one crew member knew. NWA flight ops didn't know. Seems like this could narrow the suspect list.

According to Sailshaw Peterson pumped him for 727 airstair info when he roomed at Sailshaws house. When Sail couldn't provide the info (he was working on 737 projects), Peterson then gets a job at Boeing in the technical documents department.

Many years passed until the skyjack was committed. Peterson had an alibi (living in a mud hut in Nepal) but the FBI apparently had doubts about him because they continued to suspect him and only ruled him out after a DNA comparison.

To me Peterson's moral character makes him an unlikely DB Cooper, but everything else looks suspicious. His blue eyes are potentially exculpatory but brown contacts could have been used.

If he was ever charged I'd represent him Pro Bono is he asked. What a trial that would be. And no, I wouldn't write a book or screenplay. It would just be one old jumper helping another one. Wouldn't be the first time I helped a jumper out of a jam.

Sheridan denies that he ever roomed with or knew Sailshaw which is a lie in my opinion. Why lie?

He pulled his novel off the market after some parallels between the story and Norjack were publicized here. One intriguing passage has the hero walking along the Columbia River banks in inadequate footwear during frigid weather. Very odd for a novel centered in Vietnam.

Is it possible that such a suspicious guy had nothing to do with Norjack? Absolutely yes. Same with Mayfield, Braden, Collins and many others who had the right stuff.

That's what makes the Cooper vortex so compelling and maddening.

Carry on. Rant over.

377

Good rant!

[georger 197]

377

Thanks to the generosity of a respected forum
member and fellow jumper, my 727 100 series manual collection is now complete. I have flight and systems manuals. NOTHING in the manuals even hints that the aircraft can be flown with the stairs deployed. I've looked at every relevant page.

No wonder the crew had to ask NWA flight ops and NWA flight ops had to call Boeing to get the answer.

So how did Cooper know? I'm betting he did know. Otherwise that fuselage was an aluminum holding cell. No way out aloft. He'd at best have a hostage standoff at the next landing.

How did he know? Ex Boeing employee? Connected to the Air America Thailand 727 jump tests.

Maybe he didn't know, but his detailed aircraft configuration commands strongly suggest otherwise.

So few did know. Not one crew member knew. NWA flight ops didn't know. Seems like this could narrow the suspect list.

According to Sailshaw Peterson pumped him for 727 airstair info when he roomed at Sailshaws house. When Sail couldn't provide the info (he was working on 737 projects), Peterson then gets a job at Boeing in the technical documents department.

Many years passed until the skyjack was committed. Peterson had an alibi (living in a mud hut in Nepal) but the FBI apparently had doubts about him because they continued to suspect him and only ruled him out after a DNA comparison.

To me Peterson's moral character makes him an unlikely DB Cooper, but everything else looks suspicious. His blue eyes are potentially exculpatory but brown contacts could have been used.

If he was ever charged I'd represent him Pro Bono is he asked. What a trial that would be. And no, I wouldn't write a book or screenplay. It would just be one old jumper helping another one. Wouldn't be the first time I helped a jumper out of a jam.

Sheridan denies that he ever roomed with or knew Sailshaw which is a lie in my opinion. Why lie?

He pulled his novel off the market after some parallels between the story and Norjack were publicized here. One intriguing passage has the hero walking along the Columbia River banks in inadequate footwear during frigid weather. Very odd for a novel centered in Vietnam.

Is it possible that such a suspicious guy had nothing to do with Norjack? Absolutely yes. Same with Mayfield, Braden, Collins and many others who had the right stuff.

That's what makes the Cooper vortex so compelling and maddening.

Carry on. Rant over.

377

Presumably Sheridan failed the dna test. The smoke and mirrors
and what-ifs are irrelevant.

[airtwardo 6]

BruceSmith

***

Quote

I think he has a responsibility to society and all taxpayers to communicate on a case that he is intimately familiar with. After all, we paid him - and continue to pay him in a pension - to deliver a measure of justice. I don't think he is keeping his end of the bargain.

Really Bruce?

I was trying to give ya the benefit of doubt regarding the issue of your ethics in journalism...but I think you're way off base if that's how you really feel.

A civil servant has just as much right to privacy as any 'normal' citizen...a RETIRED one so much the more.

Brings to mind the discussions about Neal Armstrong - Journalists always pined that 'we taxpayers' spent a pretty shiny dime sending him to the moon, he OWES us and the American people interviews, access, autographs...on & on.

Well...NO he did NOT. He was simply a man hired o do a job, nowhere in the job description did it say anything about 'owing reporters' access to his life ~ ESPECIALLY during retirement.


Your thinking on this is rather convoluted, and what's REALLY scary is you don't seem to know it.

The pen is a pretty mighty tool. Thing is, like any tool it can be used to build or tear down.

When you attempt to use it for retribution against someone merely wishing to exercise their constitutionally guaranteed rights...that's crossing a line of both ethics & decency.

Your comment surprises me, and not in a good way. I urge you to reconsider that line of thinking.

I think the key is finding a balance - how does a public servant share their knowledge in a way that is meaningful, yet not overly intrusive into their own personal lives.

Sometimes, fate places people into the public eye without their their prior consent, such as Tina becoming the primary wtiness to Norjak.

Others make decisions that convey a measure of social responsibility, such as being an FBI agent. When you accept the public's money to do a job there are attachments and expectations that come with it - subtle and intangible mostly, but real nevertheless.

Much of this is in a grey area, just as what my responsibility is to be truthful, determined, and yet not be a bully.

Clearly many here, and in editorial offices, too, take issue with my decisions and actions. However, I think my saving grace is that I am committed to hearing the complaints made against me and to apologize and correct statements that are in error or cause unjustified harm.

As for giving people the benefit of the doubt, I ususally hold my more agressive responses in check until someone has proven themselves incapable of civil discourse, such as Jo.

Others, because of their position of holding unique and critical information, such as Tina, Ralph, Ron Nichols, Larry, etc, I hold to a very high expectation of sharing that knowledge. Stonewalling me, or asking 600 bucks a clip for an interview, is not reasonable, especially when someone is picking up 60-grand in a pension for life - AND they turn themselves into quasi public figures by writing books, appearing in documentaries and news clips, and casting themselves as experts in Norjak.


I understand to a degree at least, in regard to the frustration that someone in your position might feel relating to the perceived inequities.

But I truly believe it's your perception, and that's really not fair to hoist on someone else whose motivations, time, goals or personality may conflict with yours.

Just because something (especially a case like Cooper) is a high priority in your life at a certain point in time, you can't expect people to cater their priorities to yours.

To publish something maliciously against such a person with that frustration the primary catalyst smacks of the worst in tabloid journalism.

To editorialize disparagingly against a person reluctant for whatever reason to conform with your agenda & wishes, is at best a misuse of the power entrusted you as a writer - at worst it makes you a bully.

We've all seen examples of the 'bad cop' who misuses his authority and treats those in the public who may question his tactics, intentions, selective enforcement...with a perceived lack of respect and thus distain toward that individual.

Is there really a difference between a stick to the ribs from that cop & a negative comment in print from a writer - brought on only by noncompliance?

Yes there is a balance...but I don't think you're being fair placing 'your' thumb on the scale.

And like with the bad cop example, even though you have the 'power' to retaliate against one who isn't giving you the respect you think you deserve...it's clearly wrong to do so.

With that power comes certain responsibilities. Again, I urge you to consider the fairness of it all...to put yourself in the 'other guys' shoes for a moment.

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[georger 197]

RobertMBlevins

******No, Shutter...that is not what I meant. I think the wood stain on the scrap piece came from KC

Georger: There IS no answer to your question on 'what is the attic box for?' No one knows for sure. Nothing was found inside it by the Decoded crew.

And now, just a few hours later you are contradicting your
statement made earlier above and saying what you originally
argued for here, starting in 2010, namely:

As I said, too bad there wasn't a twenty dollar bill from a
famous 34-page list in the box when Decoded found it.
If Kenny is actually BE Cooper...then you'll know where he
probably hid the money and why he built the box. Then I sell
that sucker quick on eBay. (*laughs*)

And you have the gall to talk about other people's credibility?
I knew if I just waited a few hours you would come back here
and reverse yourself, like trolls do.

A key argument you made in your KC case - is now dead!
And one more piece of your credibility dead, not that there was
much for you to lose at this point so late in your game ...

Your motives are perfectly clear! Then I sell
that sucker quick on eBay.[laughs]



You're back. Are you going to retract your lie that I said money was found inside that box back in 2010?

Just wondering... Should I quote you again?

The eBay reference was a joke. I would keep the countertop as a souvenir of course, should Kenny be found to be the hijacker. If anything, I would put it up for auction and donate the proceeds to the Auburn Food Bank.

FYI - I never claimed it was major evidence. From the thing-with-the-paper-covers:

Quote

'Of course, this hiding place could have been built by anyone who owned the house between Christiansen and the present day. It doesn’t prove anything, but you have to wonder if that’s where Kenny Christiansen may have hid the ransom money. The chances that Christiansen was the one who built the hiding spot are good, since he owned the house the longest amount of time; from July 1972 until his death in 1994...'

You are fond of calling people liars. You do it again and again
and again; like Jo Weber.

I never said any such thing. All I said was "whats the
attic box for" ?

You are engaged in a wholesaler revision and softening of your
original three years of claims. We all know what you said and
intended concerning the supposed new-old attic box found
where KC lived. BTW you have offered no proof at all that the
box wasn't constructed the week before you supposedly found
it. But who cares -

The point is Blevins, just like Jo Weber, you also are in constant
revision of your stories. You say one thing on t1, then come
back on t2 and claim you didn't say what you previously said ...
until people's eyes and brains glaze over!

Nobody cares any more, Blevins. You're history.

Good luck calling people liars in your 17th re-run.

[Robert99 37]

377

Thanks to the generosity of a respected forum
member and fellow jumper, my 727 100 series manual collection is now complete. I have flight and systems manuals. NOTHING in the manuals even hints that the aircraft can be flown with the stairs deployed. I've looked at every relevant page.

No wonder the crew had to ask NWA flight ops and NWA flight ops had to call Boeing to get the answer.

So how did Cooper know? I'm betting he did know. Otherwise that fuselage was an aluminum holding cell. No way out aloft. He'd at best have a hostage standoff at the next landing.

How did he know? Ex Boeing employee? Connected to the Air America Thailand 727 jump tests.

Maybe he didn't know, but his detailed aircraft configuration commands strongly suggest otherwise.

So few did know. Not one crew member knew. NWA flight ops didn't know. Seems like this could narrow the suspect list.

377

While the aircraft was on the ground in Seattle, Cooper had an argument with the cockpit crew.

The cockpit crew claimed the 727 could not take off with the rear stairs down, but Cooper told Tina that he knew it could do so.

There may have been a slight misunderstanding in the use of the word "down". The cockpit crew apparently thought Cooper meant "down and locked" as in normal ramp operations. Cooper apparently just meant "down but not locked".

Cooper eventually relented just to get the aircraft off the ground and the aft stairs remained up and locked for the takeoff.

Cooper definitely had problems with the aft stair control panel even after being instructed by Tina on how to use it.

Based on other things, Cooper had knowledge of parachutes and aircraft operations. But he obviously did not have knowledge of the aft stair operations in 727 civilian airliners.

But Cooper had obtained knowledge of 727 aircraft from somewhere. It appears that the Southeast Asia 727 operations would be the probable source of that knowledge.

Since the 727s used in Southeast Asia had been modified and the modifications tested in flight (including aft stairs down), it is probable that the control panel for the aft stairs was different for those specific aircraft and not identical to the control panel in the civilian 727s.

If Cooper was in his mid to late 40s as generally claimed, he could have had a complete USAF career behind him before starting a second career with the famous "Other Government Organizations".

He could have been a cargo kicker, or aircraft mechanic, or who knows what else. But he definitely knew how to find information in flight manuals and aircraft publications and had access to those documents.

My guess would be that Cooper was ex-military in some aeronautical related field, had joined an OGO, spent quite a bit of time outside the USA, and had a "grudge" (not related to NWA) as a result of his experiences.

But his parachute experience was probably limited and as someone put it, "he knew just enough about parachutes to get himself killed".

Robert99

[smokin99 0]

georger

Presumably Sheridan failed the dna test. The smoke and mirrors
and what-ifs are irrelevant. I doubt literary historians are going
to spend much time unraveling his words and intentions, as a
representative of the 'post-Alex Trebeck Neo Zoom Weavie
Imitator Movement.' Unless of course someone finds out he has
two hearts, three gizards, and the dna of a swan? Anything is
possible at Camp Grenada!
.....

Whatever the hell a "post-Alex Trebeck Neo Zoom Weavie Imitator Movement" is, I will leave for any junior cryptologists out there to decipher.
As for now, one can hardly deny that the life story of Sheridan Peterson and his family history, would make a good read - even without Cooper or the three gizzards.

Set up the historical background of a family with deep roots in the East and then to Calif wine vineyards...then see a youngster from a prominent family put in a place called St Vincent's Orphan Asylum at age 11 - 15 by his mother after the abusive father leaves. Add to that everything else that happened throughout his life after he left home and joined the Marines.

In his Homecoming article/bio he says that he has written about some of his exploits - maybe he or someone will see the way to having it published one day.

lol....this is for anyone who hasn't read the whole thread.....http://www.smartvoter.org/2006/11/07/ca/sn/vote/peterson_s/paper3.html

but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

[georger 197]

Robert99

***Thanks to the generosity of a respected forum
member and fellow jumper, my 727 100 series manual collection is now complete. I have flight and systems manuals. NOTHING in the manuals even hints that the aircraft can be flown with the stairs deployed. I've looked at every relevant page.

No wonder the crew had to ask NWA flight ops and NWA flight ops had to call Boeing to get the answer.

So how did Cooper know? I'm betting he did know. Otherwise that fuselage was an aluminum holding cell. No way out aloft. He'd at best have a hostage standoff at the next landing.

How did he know? Ex Boeing employee? Connected to the Air America Thailand 727 jump tests.

Maybe he didn't know, but his detailed aircraft configuration commands strongly suggest otherwise.

So few did know. Not one crew member knew. NWA flight ops didn't know. Seems like this could narrow the suspect list.

377

While the aircraft was on the ground in Seattle, Cooper had an argument with the cockpit crew.

The cockpit crew claimed the 727 could not take off with the rear stairs down, but Cooper told Tina that he knew it could do so.

There may have been a slight misunderstanding in the use of the word "down". The cockpit crew apparently thought Cooper meant "down and locked" as in normal ramp operations. Cooper apparently just meant "down but not locked".

Cooper eventually relented just to get the aircraft off the ground and the aft stairs remained up and locked for the takeoff.

Cooper definitely had problems with the aft stair control panel even after being instructed by Tina on how to use it.

Based on other things, Cooper had knowledge of parachutes and aircraft operations. But he obviously did not have knowledge of the aft stair operations in 727 civilian airliners.

But Cooper had obtained knowledge of 727 aircraft from somewhere. It appears that the Southeast Asia 727 operations would be the probable source of that knowledge.

Since the 727s used in Southeast Asia had been modified and the modifications tested in flight (including aft stairs down), it is probable that the control panel for the aft stairs was different for those specific aircraft and not identical to the control panel in the civilian 727s.

If Cooper was in his mid to late 40s as generally claimed, he could have had a complete USAF career behind him before starting a second career with the famous "Other Government Organizations".

He could have been a cargo kicker, or aircraft mechanic, or who knows what else. But he definitely knew how to find information in flight manuals and aircraft publications and had access to those documents.

My guess would be that Cooper was ex-military in some aeronautical related field, had joined an OGO, spent quite a bit of time outside the USA, and had a "grudge" (not related to NWA) as a result of his experiences.

But his parachute experience was probably limited and as someone put it, "he knew just enough about parachutes to get himself killed".

Robert99

If all of the above true, he should have known (realised) that
civilian aircraft had a different control panel for the aft stairs
than the military 727s he had experience with.

How many degrees of separation are allowable?

[georger 197]

smokin99

***

Presumably Sheridan failed the dna test. The smoke and mirrors
and what-ifs are irrelevant. I doubt literary historians are going
to spend much time unraveling his words and intentions, as a
representative of the 'post-Alex Trebeck Neo Zoom Weavie
Imitator Movement.' Unless of course someone finds out he has
two hearts, three gizards, and the dna of a swan? Anything is
possible at Camp Grenada!
.....

Whatever the hell a "post-Alex Trebeck Neo Zoom Weavie Imitator Movement" is, I will leave for any junior cryptologists out there to decipher.
As for now, one can hardly deny that the life story of Sheridan Peterson and his family history, would make a good read - even without Cooper or the three gizzards.

Set up the historical background of a family with deep roots in the East and then to Calif wine vineyards...then see a youngster from a prominent family put in a place called St Vincent's Orphan Asylum at age 11 - 15 by his mother after the abusive father leaves. Add to that everything else that happened throughout his life after he left home and joined the Marines.

In his Homecoming article/bio he says that he has written about some of his exploits - maybe he or someone will see the way to having it published one day.

lol....this is for anyone who hasn't read the whole thread.....http://www.smartvoter.org/2006/11/07/ca/sn/vote/peterson_s/paper3.html

I sense tension.

Either he has three gizzards or he doesn't! It's a technical
issue sublimely amenable to direct empiracle measurement,
as opposed to the dialectal sublimations which compose course
147:302 "The Post-Alex Trebeck Neo Zoom Weavie Movement".

I assure you Celebrity Authors know the difference, as measured
on the 'Hawthorn-to-Steinbeck scale'. Tom Kaye knows what
I'm talking about! Consult Tom.

Granted, its very airy-fairy and artsy craftsy.

I need to go shower and rub my back with a wire brush to get
ready for dinner and the theatre tonight, like Daniel Webster
and Abraham Lincoln did.

[377 20]

The Southern Air Transport 727 used by Air America in Thailand for the jump tests was not a military aircraft. The military did own a few 727s but this wasn't one of them.

It appears that the stairs were actually removed if you look carefully at the videos and photos of the Thailand jumps.

It would be interesting to try a FOIA request to get a look at govt. documents relating to the Boeing flight tests with the stairs deployed. If they did take off tests with the stairs down it might tell us something about where Cooper got the info that it could be done.

I have seen no evidence that the Thailand jump test 727 ever took off with stairs deployed. It appears that the stairs were removed for those tests.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[377 20]

Quote

Presumably Sheridan failed the dna test.

He did. And as far as the FBI is concerned that rules him out.

But what if the tie DNA wasn't Cooper's?

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.