DB Cooper

[smokin99 0]

ShotterMG

***Keep it civil or it's all going to be trashed.

If you'd like to discuss this topic without my moderation, Yahoo.com makes "groups" all day long. Feel free to use them.

Hey Quade, You are again the winner of the "Most Hollow Threat of the Year Award" here on dropzone.com. Great job doing nothing! You're one of the best at it.

What a great example of civility and irony....and all in one post.
Maybe there is an award for that too.

but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

[georger 197]

ShotterMG

***Keep it civil or it's all going to be trashed.

If you'd like to discuss this topic without my moderation, Yahoo.com makes "groups" all day long. Feel free to use them.

Hey Quade, You are again the winner of the "Most Hollow Threat of the Year Award" here on dropzone.com. Great job doing nothing! You're one of the best at it.

We are involved in examining various people's claims and data
as it is claimed to pertain to the DB Cooper Hijacking case.
Some people don't like having their work examined and things
can get quite heated. Some people try to use this thread for
their personal purposes having nothing to do with DB Cooper.
Things often get heated when that happens, trying to keep
people's posts "on topic".

That in essence is what goes on here.

Hope this helps ?

[GreyCopGC148 0]

matthewcline

******************"negotiable American currency",,

Only a foreigner would use that phrase..

Either this came from the hijacker or it didn't, when I was at the Museum symposium, Bruce was adamant that it didn't come from the hijacker,,, this is also problematic..

We know that everyone else was American, and no American would use that phrase, so it is even more difficult to explain the injection of that phrase into the narrative excluding the hijacker.

Some crazy thoughts,
Is it possible that the stewardess knew the hijacker OR subconsciously sensed that he was foreign causing the use of the phrase, "negotiable American currency"?

Northwest Orient Airline did fly some International routes, did the stewardess stay on domestic flights or travel internationally.. did she have experience with foreign passengers?

Did anyone else hear the hijacker speak?

from Kaye
"the most notable line to come out of the Cooper transcripts where passengers on the plane, including the flight attendants, stated that Cooper had no distinguishable accent"

...

Or ... he never said that!

READ THE THREAD.

It's old advice but you need to check FACTS BEFORE leaping to theory.

Facts vs myth. Hot button theory vs. actual research.

you miss the point, I STATED,, either the hijacker said it OR somebody added it,, WHY would somebody add it if they were American.. would an American add it to the narrative..

Why would any American add "American" to describe the currency.

and you sir miss the WHOLE POINT!

He never said it - period!

The issue is facts vs myths, in case you care.



It's all supposition, of course, but to Flyjack's point, someone said it..... and he makes a valid observation that the crew has no reason to interject the word American.

Here are the references...

From the handwritten crew notes: "negotiable currency"
From the transcript: "He wants negotiable American currency. Denomination not important"
From ckret's post on Dropzone: "He asked for negotiable US currency"

Well it is a good thing someone asked for negotiable or negotiable american currency. It would have made the jump more difficult with $200,000 worth of gold bars.

Especially since the gold vault was empty!

Matt

(sorry- couldn't resist it seems it fits this thread though)

The last thing Copper said was I can do that
I knew matt would not call 360 975 9601
Well who owned the property before PDX was built

DB Cooper into the Funnel of Darkness the movie starring Nicolas Cage, Jennifer Anniston and Woody Harrellson... a Jerry Bruckheimer film

Written by Paul Geivett

[skyjack71 0]

Jo Stated:

skyjack71

Your report has been ignored!
I already have Geestman's contact information! Maybe I have already talked to him and know WHY you refused access to him and others.

Then you come back with this:

Belvins wrote:

Quote

Do I have to spell it out for you? US Search...a debit card. Whatever. Geez, Louise. Or have someone gift you one of those pre-paid Visa cards and use that.

Jo Stated;
What did you NOT understand in my post above - I said I already had the contact information. Let me assure of this they had to go to great extent and expense to change their phone numbers and in one case to relocate.
KC was NOT Cooper! Did they have knowledge of who Cooper might be and was he discussed after the jump? YEA! Was Kenney later privey to some of these discussions? OH YEA!

Conversation of speculation. 'We think we know who he was" and "he sure looked like that guy". " You remember that guy with so and so".

You put them into a corner and they thought NO one would ever know - so why not just let you go where you went - but then they had second thoughts. You wouldn't let them back down.

After finding out more about what you did - they were humiliated and afraid to come forward with what REALLY happened. You were so quick to jump the gun and you never really listened to what they tried to tell you. Then they figured - Oh, what the hell KC is dead - so what. THE TV program made them realized things had gotten completely out of hand.

Go for the ride or for the humiliation!

End of Story!

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[skyjack71 0]

FLYJACK

BLEVINS, I can prove my suspect read every page of every Cooper comic,,

Yea, you know it was a French comic! Or was it?

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[skyjack71 0]

Quote

No, not wondering....I still maintain my original assessment about secrecy on this thread even if you say it does not apply to you -but LET THE HUNGER GAMES BEGIN????? I don't know - that sounds a little competitive to me.
(Edit to get to the Point)

The ingredients on the tie - hmm maybe - though everyone tends to just slide right over the fact that a lot of those ingredients can be found in ...yep, fingerprint powder.

Hey I'm all for a new suspect if only to throw off suspicion from one of my favorite actors, so go for it. But for sure people will challenge your assumptions as we do everyone. And most of us play well with others even though we do like to have a little fun every now and then.

Well, I will sit most of this out, because I know what is really going on and who this guy is! Wait and See!
You guys are going to waste a LOT of valuable time.

If this guy thinks he is going to pull the wool over Smokin99 he has another suprise coming - not just the one I lined up. NOTE he didn't even falter when I posted the pic of his BOX. He forgot the reflection of the photographer can be seen in the photo and this man claimed he talked to the FBI. WELL, got big ole new for you guys - it ididn't happen!

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[skyjack71 0]

Smoking said:

"lol...I'm with the 377. I think you and Jo have perfected the art of the tease. I'm not getting anymore out of this"transition" than what you've already posted, but that's just me.
But good luck!
JO says - he will need more than luck - he is NOT very good at changing characters. He does just what Bulljax did on the phone and thru emails. He is a little more polished now - when he couldn't get me to believe the story he was spinning - he then sets out to get you guys to waiver. This man is out to prove he can control anyone with a suspect and now that he can project a suspect and make fools out everyone.

In my case he was enforcing Weber as a suspect, but when I refused to BUY into HIS story - only because I am NO idiot and listened to him evolve his story over a several month period of time. One day I will take the time to post highlights of his story - now he has taken it to a NEW high!

Have him tell Marcello in OREGON and the guy in N.Y. hello! Hope they had fun on the fortune search. The story about meeting the guy in The Dalles - and that the man OWNED the storage units that the rental car was left at in 1971.

WELL, property records speak volumes. Supposedly this mystery man asked him to WAIT 2 yrs. Well, I didn't have 2 to wait so I did the best I could with the stuff he claimed to have taken to the FBI and the individuals he CLAIMED to have talked to. One does not make 2 day trips for an interview - driving and run a business and supposedly heavily involved with his family and church.

Everything he told me was made up and none of it was true. This man's story is evolving the same way and you guys are aiding him. IF he really has a suspect tell the FBI and they WILL get the DNA if it even exists after all of these yrs. Remind him there is only partial DNA not much to go on. Remind him there is NO handwriting samples to compare with. This is what he is doing to make the guys in this thread sound encapable...and his story will be about how he manipulated anyone who presented a suspect.

I believe he has tried to manipulate Blevins also, but I do not know this for a fact. Blevins insisted the individual or individual contacting him were verifiable. I doubt he has the ability to verify who he was actually talking to on the phone and communicating with on line....the man doing this is a master manipulator...or thinks he is. He is able to use actual businesses & names and keeps himself floating...according to the man there where 3 of them and now it is just him.

Hope he found his ROCK! Supposedly he went out one time for this man to show him something in the woods! He never produces whatever it was & then he diverts off with someone having him pick up this box from them a place in the midwest that was not too public and the man who supposedly delivered the box was named Collins.......

HA HA HA - Cooper is laughing his ASS off!

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[skyjack71 0]

NO one can discuss anything here without YOU REHASHING the same old stuff OVER & OVER & OVER. We all know it by heart! KENNEY was not Cooper - GET OVER IT! Geestman used you - he made an ASS out of you - GET OVER IT!

Stop REPEATING the same thing over and over - it is NOT going to make people BELIEVE you! If you find something new - i am sure everyone will be eager to hear it - NOTE, I do not rehash Duane anymore...it is useless until more things are revealed such as my little 9 month run with Bulljax who I believe to be Flyjack!

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[MarkBennett 5]

RobertMBlevins

In part:

Quote

'Go for the ride or for the humiliation!

End of Story!'

Oh, I don't care. I guess I will take both if that's what is necessary.

I don't care if you call Geestman or any of the other witnesses listed in the KC report. I simply said I have to act responsibly before freely handing out their personal information. I won't be responsible for that. Besides, anybody can be found, especially when you provide their real names, some of their associates or family members, and the towns where they live.

I'm not going to spend time re-hashing the entire case about KC, or what the witnesses have said. Anyone who posts here regularly is tired of hearing about it, and frankly...I don't blame them. Even I get tired of talking about Kenny.

I will say this much: Bernie Geestman is a LIAR. That is a fact. He was caught in several key lies, not just by me but by people like Marisa Kagan at History Channel. I actually detailed his lies and what they mean regarding KC and the Cooper case in a Newsvine article. Look, I shouldn't do this, but here's the Short List:

1) Said he was gone for 'ten to eleven months at sea' for Foss Tugs the year of the hijacking. Foss Tugs says not a chance.

2) Said he knew about the loan to his sister from Kenny in April 1972, but not the details. His sister and her family all say the same thing about this. It was Bernie Geestman who approached Kenny for the loan and it was HE who delivered the money.

3) Said he didn't know the address where his ex-wife lived, but if I took him to Twisp he could show me where it was. But he lived there for years, and Margie had letters from him mailed from his home in the Port Angeles area. This was also the address used in their divorce proceedings. This is a minor lie, but points to something bigger. Geestman did NOT want me to speak to his ex-wife unless he was there to do damage control. And it's about a seven-hundred mile round trip between his home and Twisp. He had also accused her being a possible accomplice to the hijacking. But in her first interview, she claimed Bernie was involved in the hijacking, but denied that KC was involved until her final interview. This was after she read my notes from the Helen Jones interviews. I had to hand it to her for loyalty.

4) Denied even knowing Kenny to Marisa Kagan and then immediately called his sister and told her to take back everything she had told me in interviews. After Kagan confronted him, he admitted to both making the call and said he and Kenny were lifelong friends.

5) Claimed on History Channel that he was actually at Kenny's deathbed when he died. People who were caring for Kenny said he wasn't, and that only Lyle Christiansen was there. After seeing pictures of Geestman taken at different times, Carolyn Tyner said she did not recognize him and he never visited.

6) Said in initial interview that there was no way that Kenny was Cooper. But later on Decoded he told them Kenny could be Cooper. (“You're asking me for MY opinion? Yes. He looks exactly like the picture the F.B.I. put out...") You decide which is the lie.

7) Said specifically that on the week of the hijacking he was at work for Foss Tugs. Foss says no, and so do several other witnesses.

8) Lie by Omission: When questioned on how Kenny, a guy making around 500 a month before taxes, could loan Geestman's sister five grand, said this: 'I thought those airline people did pretty well...' I call this a Lie by Omission because Geestman had worked for NWA for years, in fact he had been with them before Kenny hired on. He was well aware of the poor pay, the lack of benefits, the strikes, and that Kenny was broke all the time.

9) Claimed he had no idea how Kenny selected the house in Bonney Lake or any of the arrangements on it. But the house was purchased from a couple where Geestman served as the Best Man at their wedding.

This and many other reasons are why I have a nickname for him. Pinocchio. Suits him well.

On the subject of Kenny discussing the Cooper hijacking. Every single witness I spoke to who knew Kenny said the same thing. He never spoke of it, not to his friends, his family, even his co-workers. And his collection of NWA clippings stopped the same year as the hijacking. Although Cooper was the biggest thing to ever happen to NWA, he never clipped a single article about it. Not one.

But, Robert, you're missing a nexus here:

1) Geestman is a liar
2) ??????????
3) Kenny is Cooper

[smokin99 0]

MarkBennett

***Robert said.......yada, yada, yada....

But, Robert, you're missing a nexus here:

1) Geestman is a liar
2) ??????????
3) Kenny is Cooper

I think he misunderstood what you are saying, but it doesn't matter because logic has never been a defining element of the KC did it crowd.

The main take away with anything to do with Kenny Christiansen being DB Cooper is this:

Almost every single item and point covered in all of the posts and the books are based on hearsay, anecdotal stories, and 40+ year old memories. She said this, he said that, he did this, he did that with almost no production of proof of same. furthermore, most of the stuff that has been produced by the KC is cooper crowd has been shown to be either grossly inaccurate, taken out of context, or leaps of logic. Let's see, all the scrapbooks stopped after the hijacking - what exactly does that prove? It could be that he kept scrapbooks but they got misplaced like the real estate documents. Or he just quit because he had better things to do. Maybe he got po'd at the editorials and quit taking the paper. A million maybes is all that KC is based on.

The primary, first-hand actors in this play have a problem with egocentric memory bias - why wouldn't these people? We have only their word that any of what they say actually happened. Personally, I'd like a little more.

Unfortunately, there has been no posted evidence of KC spending a lot of cash or giving out loans, and the worth of the estate when he died can be explained by the sale of resources that Kenny acquired before the hijacking. So all the endless posts and connecting nebulous dots is backed up by pretty much nothing. Maybe that is why the FBI is not following up because they do not consider him a serious suspect.

And I didn't even go into the physical and psychological contradictions in trying to tie him to the case.

but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

[smokin99 0]

RobertMBlevins

Hard to explain some of these things to people who were not present during interviews, or involved in the investigation into KC.

They were not scrapbooks. Kenny kept a large folder of NWA-related clippings that begin in the 40's when he was on Shemya. Last one is from the summer of 1971. Nothing after that. If I said 'scrapbook' that was not correct. Lyle Christiansen corrected me on that. It is a folder of clippings.

If you think witness descriptions in a criminal case, especially taken from people under duress, are completely accurate than I ask how come the Green River Killer Task Force failed to connect the guilty guy to the posters hanging in their own offices...even while they were interviewing him in those same offices and taking that swab sample.

Took them years later to figure it out, and that only through DNA.

I'm not sure who these 'KC did it' people are, or where they came to that conclusion. There is no conclusion on him as yet.

lol....So out of all that, all you got is that the scrapbooks were really a folder of clippings? I watched the Shawshank Redemption movie again the other night, so all I can say is are you being deliberately obtuse?
The basic descriptions of height, weight, hair, coloring are what I'm referring to - not necessarily the composite drawings. Though I will say that we can both make generalities about the worth of witness descriptions, and both give opposite examples, and both be right.

But the problem with Kenny is not the composite - he actually favors the composite to me. The problem is his height, his baldness, etc. and the fact that the people that were in the best position to speak on these things basically agreed on those points.

The Kenny did it camp would include you, otherwise we would not still be getting the endless repeats of the same information AFTER you just said that you weren't going to post it because you were tired of it as we all must be. Paraphrased but that is what you said. Mama always said actions speak louder than words
Edited to add - Robert, It might be hard to explain, but it need not be, as is not hard to understand ---We didn't have to be in on the interviews or involved in an "investigation" to know that no one to date had produced any corroboration of what was alleged in the interviews. And, as a matter of fact, some of the documentation that was presented was incorrect. That is my point.

And, just like your post to Flyjack, you too present things over and over that you haven't backed up with proof. And some things that you still repeat have been proven incorrect. So pot meet kettle.

But I look forward to seeing your proof if you ever obtain it.

but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

[smokin99 0]

RobertMBlevins

There is no proof. There is only the evidence.

You want hard truth. OK. There is no EVIDENCE, there are only stories.

Quote

I never said I could prove Kenny Christiansen was the guy. I said I was asked to do a job, ran around doing interviews for more than a year, and kept careful notes and recordings of these interviews whenever I could. That's all.

Your efforts are appreciated

Quote

There is a hard truth here some of you refuse to face. You want to know if Kenny was the hijacker? Then the FBI should bring in the principles and question them. Otherwise, not a chance of discovering the truth. This idea is one of the reasons I continue to make the KC report a free download at AB.

Obviously, up to now, the FBI sees no reason to use their resources towards listening to stories that aren't backed up with tangible evidence.

Quote

Week after week, month after month, the downloads continue. Sooner or later, someone is going to get interested enough to try and discover the truth on their own. I'm not afraid of the possible results. The truth is the only thing that has ever counted all along, not who is right LOL. I could very well be wrong about the whole thing.

lol....Yes you could be.

Quote

You can't say with certainty that Kenny wasn't DB Cooper any more than I can say he WAS.
That is also a hard truth.

The hard truth that you have chosen to ignore is that I can point to more "documented" evidence that argue against it, then you can point to that argue for it.
The problem with most people that have their pet candidates is they ignore the fact that large square pegs won't fit into small round holes, no matter how you try. And the more someone tries to force it, the more distorted it gets.

Quote

For the New Year, here are 8 Things You Didn't Know About Robert Blevins:............................................................................................

Actually I did, but that's okay. Now if we could only find out more about DB Cooper.
Happy New Year!

but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

[MarkBennett 5]

skyjack71

Your report has been ignored!
I already have Geestman's contact information! Maybe I have already talked to him and know WHY you refused access to him and others.

They aren't sueing because of their age and privacy issues - it is the only reason you are walking.

Obviously you have NOT updated your contacts - how sad! You didn't tell them a woman whose husband claimed to have known them needed to ask a few questions. THAT IS BECAUSE U didn't want anyone talking to them!

Jo,
No reason to be coy, is there? Did you contact Bernie Geestman?

[smokin99 0]

Okay...I admit I substitute ham for the hog jowls but, eh, other than that y'all are all invited to partake.
Here's to a happy, healthy, and successful New Year for all.

but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

[matthewcline 0]

GreyCopGC148

*********************"negotiable American currency",,

Only a foreigner would use that phrase..

Either this came from the hijacker or it didn't, when I was at the Museum symposium, Bruce was adamant that it didn't come from the hijacker,,, this is also problematic..

We know that everyone else was American, and no American would use that phrase, so it is even more difficult to explain the injection of that phrase into the narrative excluding the hijacker.

Some crazy thoughts,
Is it possible that the stewardess knew the hijacker OR subconsciously sensed that he was foreign causing the use of the phrase, "negotiable American currency"?

Northwest Orient Airline did fly some International routes, did the stewardess stay on domestic flights or travel internationally.. did she have experience with foreign passengers?

Did anyone else hear the hijacker speak?

from Kaye
"the most notable line to come out of the Cooper transcripts where passengers on the plane, including the flight attendants, stated that Cooper had no distinguishable accent"

...

Or ... he never said that!

READ THE THREAD.

It's old advice but you need to check FACTS BEFORE leaping to theory.

Facts vs myth. Hot button theory vs. actual research.

you miss the point, I STATED,, either the hijacker said it OR somebody added it,, WHY would somebody add it if they were American.. would an American add it to the narrative..

Why would any American add "American" to describe the currency.

and you sir miss the WHOLE POINT!

He never said it - period!

The issue is facts vs myths, in case you care.



It's all supposition, of course, but to Flyjack's point, someone said it..... and he makes a valid observation that the crew has no reason to interject the word American.

Here are the references...

From the handwritten crew notes: "negotiable currency"
From the transcript: "He wants negotiable American currency. Denomination not important"
From ckret's post on Dropzone: "He asked for negotiable US currency"

Well it is a good thing someone asked for negotiable or negotiable american currency. It would have made the jump more difficult with $200,000 worth of gold bars.

Especially since the gold vault was empty!

Matt

(sorry- couldn't resist it seems it fits this thread though)

The last thing Copper said was I can do that
I knew matt would not call 360 975 9601
Well who owned the property before PDX was built

So you wanted me to call you, since you never answered my question.

Why am I calling you? you have offered; no evidence, have no credibility, ignore actual facts (hand writing on ticket, etc) and only perpetrated myths that are probably more along the line of lies.

Your whole purpose here is self promotion, for personal and financial gain, like a few others here. And like them, you should be banned from here as well, for life if I had my way.

"Cop"? huh, right.

Matt

An Instructors first concern is student safety.
So, start being safe, first!!!

[matthewcline 0]

skyjack71

NO one can discuss anything here without YOU REHASHING the same old stuff OVER & OVER & OVER. We all know it by heart! KENNEY was not Cooper - GET OVER IT! Geestman used you - he made an ASS out of you - GET OVER IT!

Stop REPEATING the same thing over and over - it is NOT going to make people BELIEVE you! If you find something new - i am sure everyone will be eager to hear it - NOTE, I do not rehash Duane anymore...it is useless until more things are revealed such as my little 9 month run with Bulljax who I believe to be Flyjack!

Pot, meet Kettle.

Many have told you the same thing about D. Weber, yet even with the lack of actual evidence, your ever evolving story, you still say only you have the truth, yet haven't produced your "with out a doubt facts" and "evidence".


If you just want to know about your late husband and his criminal past as a petty felon, and con man, just state that is your goal, you'll find far more support that way.

Matt

An Instructors first concern is student safety.
So, start being safe, first!!!

[Robert99 37]

In late 2009 and early 2010, I prepared a series of posts analyzing the flight track of the airliner that was hijacked by D.B. Cooper during the time it was in the airspace controlled by the Seattle Air Traffic Control Center after it departed Seattle and headed to Reno.

The only conclusion possible from that analysis was that the times and locations available could not possibly be correct.

The Seattle ATC transcripts of the flight communications between the Seattle controllers and the airliner had 19 redactions and all of those redactions appeared to be solely for the purpose of removing information that would permit the determination of the airliner's flight path.

Recently, the Washington State Museum made available a 23 page download that I will refer to here as the "George Harrison Papers". The George Harrison Papers were apparently notes taken by five or more people in Seattle during the actual hijacking. Basically, these notes have different times for the same event(s) and suggest that the observers were using wrist watches or other time pieces that were not synchronized.

Nevertheless, these notes suggest that the airliner's takeoff time from Seattle is several minutes later than previously believed. Also, the famous 8:22 PM time for the 23 DME position south of the Battleground (formerly Portland) VORTAC may be more like 8:18 PM. The 8:22 time was actually the time that a dispatch on the ARNIC teletype system was completed.

So even today, there is no way to actually determine the airliner's flight path.

And the Cooper hijacking cannot be resolved/solved at this point in time unless that flight path is known.

Robert99

[smokin99 0]

RobertMBlevins

***In late 2009 and early 2010, I prepared a series of posts analyzing the flight track of the airliner that was hijacked by D.B. Cooper during the time it was in the airspace controlled by the Seattle Air Traffic Control Center after it departed Seattle and headed to Reno.

The only conclusion possible from that analysis was that the times and locations available could not possibly be correct.

The Seattle ATC transcripts of the flight communications between the Seattle controllers and the airliner had 19 redactions and all of those redactions appeared to be solely for the purpose of removing information that would permit the determination of the airliner's flight path.

Recently, the Washington State Museum made available a 23 page download that I will refer to here as the "George Harrison Papers". The George Harrison Papers were apparently notes taken by five or more people in Seattle during the actual hijacking. Basically, these notes have different times for the same event(s) and suggest that the observers were using wrist watches or other time pieces that were not synchronized.

Nevertheless, these notes suggest that the airliner's takeoff time from Seattle is several minutes later than previously believed. Also, the famous 8:22 PM time for the 23 DME position south of the Battleground (formerly Portland) VORTAC may be more like 8:18 PM. The 8:22 time was actually the time that a dispatch on the ARNIC teletype system was completed.

So even today, there is no way to actually determine the airliner's flight path.

And the Cooper hijacking cannot be resolved/solved at this point in time unless that flight path is known.

Robert99

You should prepare a report on this and send it to the Seattle FBI c/o the current case agent. I would question the redactions, and send a copy of the transcript involved. There is one hard clue on the flight path. The location of the placard on the ground.

It is not a hard clue on the flight path, probable maybe, at the very least. possible - like the money find.

Because you assume a lot when you assume that the placard has stayed in the same location for what? 7 years after the flight?

Not saying it didn't - and it may well be the best we have - but at its core it is still one more assumption.

but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

[Guru312 0]

Quote

Your whole purpose here is self promotion, for personal and financial gain, like a few others here. And like them, you should be banned from here as well, for life if I had my way.

"Cop"? huh, right.

Matt

+100

Guru312

I am not DB Cooper

[Robert99 37]

The purpose of the present exercise is to refine the original analysis by using different mathematical techniques as well as to incorporate new information that is now available with, hopefully, more new information that may become available.

In the 42+ years since the Cooper hijacking, GPS based navigation systems have become standard equipment for airliners, general aviation and business aircraft, and many private and sports aircraft as well.

With the advent of GPS systems, navigation systems based on magnetic indicators, such as the common "whiskey compass", can be eliminated. The GPS systems can be set to indicate True North, instead of Magnetic North, and all enroute navigation is then simplified and becomes more accurate since it eliminates the errors that are inherent to VOR type systems. And magnetic variation and compass deviation are no longer a consideration and can be ignored. That is, navigating from one highly accurate GPS fix to another using a great circle route, even for relatively short distances, is much more accurate over the entire route than that which can be achieved with VOR systems, especially as distance from the VOR increases.

Since the NWA 305 hijacking on November 24, 1971, the datums for the maps used in aircraft navigation have been updated to the World Geodic System 1984 (WGS84), for longitude and latitude, and to the North American Vertical Datum (NAVD88), for sea level references. In the Portland, Oregon and Vancouver, Washington area, the changes were quite small and had no particular impact on aircraft navigation. However, some significant plotting mistakes were discovered on the previous sectional charts.

There is no indication that any of the navigation aids or intersections used by the NWA 305 airliner on its flight to Reno have been moved from their 1971 geographical locations. However, several of the aids, and especially the intersections, have been renamed. Consequently, the current GPS fixes for all the navigational aids and intersections will be used in this analysis. The coordinates for the aids are presented in the current IFR Low Altitude Enroute Charts and the coordinates for the intersections can be found in other FAA sources and elsewhere. The coordinate values used here appear to have been determined by using Differential-GPS Systems and are, therefore, extremely accurate.

It should be specifically understood that the geographical relationships between the navigational aids and intersections is exactly the same as in 1971. But again, some of the names have been changed.

The following navigational aids and intersections, all on V-23, are used in this analysis:

1. SEATTLE VORTAC, Latitude: 47 degrees, 26.12 minutes, North; Longitude: 122 degrees, 18.58 minutes West; 354 feet above sea level.

2. MALAY (formerly Mayfield) Intersection, Latitude: 46 degrees, 25.37 minutes, North; Longitude: 122 degrees, 45.65 minutes, West.

3. BATTLEGROUND (formerly Portland) VORTAC, Latitude: 45 degrees, 44.87 minutes, North; Longitude: 122 degrees, 35.49 minutes, West; 253 feet above sea level.

4. CANBY Intersection, Latitude: 45 degrees, 18.63 minutes, North; Longitude: 122 degrees, 45.89 minutes, West. The significance of this intersection, and probably others, will be discussed at a later time.

5. EUGENE VORTAC, Latitude: 44 degrees, 7.25 minutes, North; Longitude: 123 degrees, 13.37 minutes, West; 364 feet above sea level.

6. ROGUE VALLEY (formerly Medford) VORTAC, Latitude 42 degrees, 28.77 minutes, North; Longitude: 122 degrees, 54.78 minutes, West; 2083 feet above sea level.

7. FORT JONES VORTAC, Latitude: 41 degrees, 26.98 minutes, North; Longitude: 122 degrees, 48.39 minutes, West; 4900 feet above sea level.

The location given for the airliner during the hand-off from the Seattle ATC controller to the Oakland ATC controller was one nautical mile south of the Fort Jones VORTAC at 9:45 PM PST. This position was agreed to by both controllers. The one nautical mile in this instance would be the horizontal distance from the VORTAC as shown on the controllers radar screens. Specifically, this is NOT a DME distance. This position will be the last one (or southernmost one) considered in this analysis unless stated otherwise.

Great circle distances and True Courses (which are measured with respect to the "grid lines") between the above navigational aids and fixes are as follows:

1. SEATTLE VORTAC to MALAY Intersection, 63.50 Nautical Miles, 197.09 degrees True Course departing and 196.76 degrees True Course arriving.

2. MALAY Intersection to BATTLEGROUND VORTAC, 41.11 Nautical Miles, 170.07 degrees True Course departing and 170.19 degrees True Course arriving.

3. BATTLEGROUND VORTAC to EUGENE VORTAC, 101.24 Nautical Miles, 195.58 degrees True Course departing and 195.14 degrees True Course arriving.

4. EUGENE VORTAC to ROGUE VALLEY VORTAC, 99.40 Nautical Miles, 172.07 degrees True Course departing and 172.28 degrees True Course arriving.

5. ROGUE VALLEY VORTAC to FORT JONES VORTAC, 61.97 Nautical Miles, 175.57 degrees True Course departing and 175.64 degrees True Course arriving.

The next part of this analysis will be posted when the situation warrants it.

Robert99

[Robert99 37]

RobertMBlevins

You should prepare a report on this and send it to the Seattle FBI c/o the current case agent. I would question the redactions, and send a copy of the transcript involved. There is one hard clue on the flight path. The location of the placard on the ground.

Blevins, Just stay out of this! Your advise is neither needed nor wanted! You are not involved in this!

Robert99

[GreyCopGC148 0]

matthewcline

************************"negotiable American currency",,

Only a foreigner would use that phrase..

Either this came from the hijacker or it didn't, when I was at the Museum symposium, Bruce was adamant that it didn't come from the hijacker,,, this is also problematic..

We know that everyone else was American, and no American would use that phrase, so it is even more difficult to explain the injection of that phrase into the narrative excluding the hijacker.

Some crazy thoughts,
Is it possible that the stewardess knew the hijacker OR subconsciously sensed that he was foreign causing the use of the phrase, "negotiable American currency"?

Northwest Orient Airline did fly some International routes, did the stewardess stay on domestic flights or travel internationally.. did she have experience with foreign passengers?

Did anyone else hear the hijacker speak?

from Kaye
"the most notable line to come out of the Cooper transcripts where passengers on the plane, including the flight attendants, stated that Cooper had no distinguishable accent"

...

Or ... he never said that!

READ THE THREAD.

It's old advice but you need to check FACTS BEFORE leaping to theory.

Facts vs myth. Hot button theory vs. actual research.

you miss the point, I STATED,, either the hijacker said it OR somebody added it,, WHY would somebody add it if they were American.. would an American add it to the narrative..

Why would any American add "American" to describe the currency.

and you sir miss the WHOLE POINT!

He never said it - period!

The issue is facts vs myths, in case you care.



It's all supposition, of course, but to Flyjack's point, someone said it..... and he makes a valid observation that the crew has no reason to interject the word American.

Here are the references...

From the handwritten crew notes: "negotiable currency"
From the transcript: "He wants negotiable American currency. Denomination not important"
From ckret's post on Dropzone: "He asked for negotiable US currency"

Well it is a good thing someone asked for negotiable or negotiable american currency. It would have made the jump more difficult with $200,000 worth of gold bars.

Especially since the gold vault was empty!

Matt

(sorry- couldn't resist it seems it fits this thread though)

The last thing Copper said was I can do that
I knew matt would not call 360 975 9601
Well who owned the property before PDX was built

So you wanted me to call you, since you never answered my question.

Why am I calling you? you have offered; no evidence, have no credibility, ignore actual facts (hand writing on ticket, etc) and only perpetrated myths that are probably more along the line of lies.

Your whole purpose here is self promotion, for personal and financial gain, like a few others here. And like them, you should be banned from here as well, for life if I had my way.

"Cop"? huh, right.

Matt we have a thing called the cowards list and it has two names on it.

But now it has 3 yours

1 Mark Bennet

2 Bruce Smith

3 you matt you are a cowards for not being a man and calling from a phone both with a rag over your mouth and calling in the middle of the night you are number 3

Matt if you call I can answered all your questions

DB Cooper into the Funnel of Darkness the movie starring Nicolas Cage, Jennifer Anniston and Woody Harrellson... a Jerry Bruckheimer film

Written by Paul Geivett

[GreyCopGC148 0]

RobertMBlevins

There is no proof. There is only the evidence.

I never said I could prove Kenny Christiansen was the guy. I said I was asked to do a job, ran around doing interviews for more than a year, and kept careful notes and recordings of these interviews whenever I could. That's all.

There is a hard truth here some of you refuse to face. You want to know if Kenny was the hijacker? Then the FBI should bring in the principles and question them. Otherwise, not a chance of discovering the truth. This idea is one of the reasons I continue to make the KC report a free download at AB.

Week after week, month after month, the downloads continue. Sooner or later, someone is going to get interested enough to try and discover the truth on their own. I'm not afraid of the possible results. The truth is the only thing that has ever counted all along, not who is right LOL. I could very well be wrong about the whole thing.

You can't say with certainty that Kenny wasn't DB Cooper any more than I can say he WAS.
That is also a hard truth.
For the New Year, here are 8 Things You Didn't Know About Robert Blevins:

1) I wrote my first sci-fi book, Say Goodbye to the Sun in 1978. After several rejections by publishers I tossed the last known copy of the manuscript into a dumpster. Twenty years later, a copy was found in the attic of a house where I once lived. It made predictions about the use of holography and other things we take for granted today. It's not a best-seller, but I get letters about it occasionally.

2) Whomever he was, I hate D.B. Cooper. He almost bankrupted Adventure Books. I've turned down thousands of dollars for TV appearances to promote credibility. I rejected an offer from a film company when they wanted to just make up whatever they wanted. I still drive an old truck, but I do have morals. One of them is the truth. It's all that matters. Sometimes I wonder if I should have just sold out, stopped posting at Dropzone, and moved closer to my family in Arizona.

3) I've made mistakes, but I don't lie. I had Captain Scott walking back to speak to the hijacker in our first version of Blast. It cost me money, but I dumped the book and moved on, trying to learn from my mistakes.

4) All of my 'survival' stories are true. Yes, Ozette happened. Yes, I went missing for more than a month in winter in the Cascade Mountains, and yes, I did dumb up on Mount Rainier once. Shit happens, but I'm still here which proves I'm not that easy to kill.

5) I'm one hell of a good shot. I stopped a crazy bear with a Belgian Browning .22 and I can drop a line of bottles off a log with my S/W 45/06 quicker than you can blink twice. No big deal, all it takes is practice.

6) I go camping alone a lot. When I do, I barbecue, play guitar, target shoot, and stay safe. It's good to get away sometimes, especially when you have plenty of ammunition and classic radio shows to listen to like Dimension X and X Minus 1.

7) I spend my days scrubbing floors but it pays real good. Gayla formed 'B and G Housecleaning' and I helped her move to the next level. Now customers pay her hundreds of dollars for a single clean, many are execs from famous Seattle-based companies. I wouldn't give it up for the world.

8) The most influential person in my life was a Catholic nun. I started substituting sci-fi stories for essays while in the fourth grade at St. Joseph's Catholic School in Roseburg, Oregon. I got my hands slapped by rulers. A young nun, Sister Maureena, got the other nuns to back off and encouraged me. I won the most books read that year award from her at the same time. I will never forget her. In my class picture, I crossed my fingers and eyes. The other kids beat me up for it.

And

DB Cooper into the Funnel of Darkness the movie starring Nicolas Cage, Jennifer Anniston and Woody Harrellson... a Jerry Bruckheimer film

Written by Paul Geivett

[skyjack71 0]

Blevins stated:

Quote

You mean the NPR reporters who were turned down for expenses to check out the KC report. I vetted them THOROUGHLY. They were legitimate. Doesn't matter much, since they couldn't get the plane tickets, rental car, and hotel expenses to do the story. We all felt bad about it. I wondered if they would really get it, because they were from back east. Too much money. I may run this past KUOW in Seattle instead, i.e. offer them the unedited report since they are the local NPR here.

YOU will have to verify these guys even exist. Frankly I think you were scammed by the same guy who was contacting me. There was supposedly 3 of them. They did not say they were with NPR - but a Marshall and a Man who supposedly got a PI license during his communications with me and also claimed to have spoke to the FBI. His number went to a legitimate number - but it had beeps on it - too many suspiciouns on my part.

I seriously doubt he was the owner of said business or even worked there. The qeeks can make themselves appear to be legitimate with the whole thing is a scam.....Why Blevins can you not for one moment cannot believe you have been scammed? You hide your contacts when there was NO need to do so....how are you so certain you know who you were communicating with. Did the other 2 individuals ever one time speak to you - or was it just the caller making a claim the other 2 even existed.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[GreyCopGC148 0]

skyjack71

Blevins stated:

Quote

You mean the NPR reporters who were turned down for expenses to check out the KC report. I vetted them THOROUGHLY. They were legitimate. Doesn't matter much, since they couldn't get the plane tickets, rental car, and hotel expenses to do the story. We all felt bad about it. I wondered if they would really get it, because they were from back east. Too much money. I may run this past KUOW in Seattle instead, i.e. offer them the unedited report since they are the local NPR here.

YOU will have to verify these guys even exist. Frankly I think you were scammed by the same guy who was contacting me. There was supposedly 3 of them. They did not say they were with NPR - but a Marshall and a Man who supposedly got a PI license during his communications with me and also claimed to have spoke to the FBI. His number went to a legitimate number - but it had beeps on it - too many suspiciouns on my part.

I seriously doubt he was the owner of said business or even worked there. The qeeks can make themselves appear to be legitimate with the whole thing is a scam.....Why Blevins can you not for one moment cannot believe you have been scammed? You hide your contacts when there was NO need to do so....how are you so certain you know who you were communicating with. Did the other 2 individuals ever one time speak to you - or was it just the caller making a claim the other 2 even existed.

No they are F L B with badges and photo ID

GC 148 THE GRAY COP Im FLB HA HA HA

NO answer on who owned the property before PDX was built?sad
I was ask to ask this to see if any of you know any thing I did not know I had to be told.
Clue it was a PICKLE FARM .

I will be shocked if LARRY CARR OR CURTIS ENG KNOW THIS ONE I DID NOT It was told to me by my neighbor. If thay don't believe you ask them this. They will not GC 148 The FLB

DB Cooper into the Funnel of Darkness the movie starring Nicolas Cage, Jennifer Anniston and Woody Harrellson... a Jerry Bruckheimer film

Written by Paul Geivett