DB Cooper

[georger 194]

RobertMBlevins

***

premise
no money was found in circulation..
and
it would have been relatively easy for the "hijacker:" to pass the bills after a period of time..

therefore,
he spent the cash

LOGIC..

premise
no money was found in circulation

therefore,
we don't know if the money was spent


So, it really comes down to subjective probability... OPINION

If I had to make a call, I'd say the likelihood that money was passed undetected through to destruction is about the same as myself sinking a single basket from half court, however, the likelihood of finding the cash at TBAR would be like myself sinking 50 baskets in a row from half court...

Not really. (On the liklihood that it is doubtful the bills could have passed through the system without detection.) This is VERY possible. Currently in the US, there are about 4.4 BILLION twenty dollar bills in circulation. Let's cut that in half for 1971, although I don't have a number on that. But let's say TWO billion in circulation back then.

Quotes from the Treasury Department rep in 2010, regarding any search for the Cooper bills:

1) Rep states that due to the number of worn out bills that arrive at Printing and Engraving in DC each day for destruction, any search ordered by the FBI would have been either very short-term or basically ignored. He quotes the job as impossible. Uses word 'truckloads' to describe the amounts, although that is probably an overstatement. In any case, had the Cooper bills eventually reached P and E years later, no one was looking for them anyway by that time. (See below)

2) Rep states that back before computers were really in use, worn bills were checked to see if they were counterfeit, the denominations and total daily amounts recorded, and then they were shredded and replaced with new bills for circulation. Numbers were not recorded on the shredded bills. (I did not ask him if they recorded numbers today) EDIT: After a quick check at Google, I discovered they DO record the serial numbers of worn bills today.

Statement from Larry Carr, Seattle FBI:

Most banks gave up searching their incoming twenties within three months after the list of bills was issued. All had ceased looking after six months. The Federal Reserve banks looked for the longest period of all these entities, but they eventually gave it up as well. Ralph Himmelsbach has claimed that Treasury looked for 'years'. The rep I spoke to disputed that idea strongly. He actually laughed about it. My thought is that Treasury and the FBI did not cooperate with this effort quite as much as the FBI would have liked, due to the sheer magnitude of such a search. (Today, they would just scan all the incoming bills and wait for a hit on one or more of the numbers)

Easy conclusion: After a minimum of six months, it would be reletively safe for the hijacker to pass off the money almost any way he wished without fear of getting caught. Because no one is actually LOOKING for the bills anymore.

1973: Attorney General John Mitchell (yes, THAT one LOL) issued a list of the bills publicly, but only a few newspapers bothered to print it. A Portland newspaper printed the complete list and offered a reward to anyone finding one of the bills. Nothing was ever submitted and the reward program was eventually ended.

To Grey Cop: If you had REALLY solved the case and the case agent in Seattle REALLY agreed with you...they would have gone public with it already and you would be on David Letterman the following week.

That's a pretty good impersonation, Blevins. Pretty funny.

Can you do John Wayne or Marilyn Monroe?

"eventually reached P and E" ? Pluto and Earth ?

play this script 200 more times!

eventually reach P and E orbit.

[GreyCopGC148 0]

georger

******

premise
no money was found in circulation..
and
it would have been relatively easy for the "hijacker:" to pass the bills after a period of time..

therefore,
he spent the cash

LOGIC..

premise
no money was found in circulation

therefore,
we don't know if the money was spent


So, it really comes down to subjective probability... OPINION

If I had to make a call, I'd say the likelihood that money was passed undetected through to destruction is about the same as myself sinking a single basket from half court, however, the likelihood of finding the cash at TBAR would be like myself sinking 50 baskets in a row from half court...

Not really. (On the liklihood that it is doubtful the bills could have passed through the system without detection.) This is VERY possible. Currently in the US, there are about 4.4 BILLION twenty dollar bills in circulation. Let's cut that in half for 1971, although I don't have a number on that. But let's say TWO billion in circulation back then.

Quotes from the Treasury Department rep in 2010, regarding any search for the Cooper bills:

1) Rep states that due to the number of worn out bills that arrive at Printing and Engraving in DC each day for destruction, any search ordered by the FBI would have been either very short-term or basically ignored. He quotes the job as impossible. Uses word 'truckloads' to describe the amounts, although that is probably an overstatement. In any case, had the Cooper bills eventually reached P and E years later, no one was looking for them anyway by that time. (See below)

2) Rep states that back before computers were really in use, worn bills were checked to see if they were counterfeit, the denominations and total daily amounts recorded, and then they were shredded and replaced with new bills for circulation. Numbers were not recorded on the shredded bills. (I did not ask him if they recorded numbers today) EDIT: After a quick check at Google, I discovered they DO record the serial numbers of worn bills today.

Statement from Larry Carr, Seattle FBI:

Most banks gave up searching their incoming twenties within three months after the list of bills was issued. All had ceased looking after six months. The Federal Reserve banks looked for the longest period of all these entities, but they eventually gave it up as well. Ralph Himmelsbach has claimed that Treasury looked for 'years'. The rep I spoke to disputed that idea strongly. He actually laughed about it. My thought is that Treasury and the FBI did not cooperate with this effort quite as much as the FBI would have liked, due to the sheer magnitude of such a search. (Today, they would just scan all the incoming bills and wait for a hit on one or more of the numbers)

Easy conclusion: After a minimum of six months, it would be reletively safe for the hijacker to pass off the money almost any way he wished without fear of getting caught. Because no one is actually LOOKING for the bills anymore.

1973: Attorney General John Mitchell (yes, THAT one LOL) issued a list of the bills publicly, but only a few newspapers bothered to print it. A Portland newspaper printed the complete list and offered a reward to anyone finding one of the bills. Nothing was ever submitted and the reward program was eventually ended.

To Grey Cop: If you had REALLY solved the case and the case agent in Seattle REALLY agreed with you...they would have gone public with it already and you would be on David Letterman the following week.

That's a pretty good impersonation, Blevins. Pretty funny.

Can you do John Wayne or Marilyn Monroe?

"eventually reached P and E" ? Pluto and Earth ?

play this script 200 more times!

eventually reach P and E orbit.

I don't fly. what do I need to go on Letterman.

DO they pay you or something

So who owned the property before PDX was built.? My neighbor told me to ask this to see if you knew anything

NO SNIVELERS YOU ARE NOT GOING TO RIDE MY SUCCESS
so let the controversy begin

By august Ill be done with my second book on db cooper DB COOPER VS THE GRAY COP

Ill have been to Texas and finished my book on JFK
JFK A BEND IN THE ROAD FOR AMERICA
THE ASSASSINATION INVESTIGATED BY THE GRAY COP

AND THEN WHAT THE HOFFA BODY? THE GRAY COP GOES BACK IN TIME TO SOLVE THE CRIME

DB Cooper into the Funnel of Darkness the movie starring Nicolas Cage, Jennifer Anniston and Woody Harrellson... a Jerry Bruckheimer film

Written by Paul Geivett

[MarkBennett 5]

“Ha Ha Ha” by D. B. Cooper is a surprisingly long book. At 326 pages, it’s longer than Geoff Gray’s book and many other D. B. Cooper books. 377 said he hasn’t read it because it’s fiction. Is it? Could there be any truth in it? I had to find out.

“Ha Ha Ha” is the story of a man who around 1970 was flipping real estate in southern California. He lost everything in a downturn and left town only a step ahead of his creditors. He moved on to burglary – first vacation homes, then houses and finally a pawn shop in an elaborate tunneling operation that netted most of its merchandise. He and an accomplice escaped to another town where they set up their own pawn shop to sell the booty. However, the local organized crime boss found them and forced them to do a job for him – burn some trucks of a trucking company that refused to allow the mob boss’s union in their business. Escaping just barely ahead of the police, they go to another town where they are arrested for an armored car robbery they didn’t commit. The “DB Cooper” character is charged and about to be convicted by crooked cops and D.A.s who knew he was innocent. Incredibly, he makes a mad dash just as the verdict is being read and escapes. He decides he wants one big score to avoid looking over his shoulder. Hence the hijacking. He jumps out near Reno, changes the money in Las Vegas and makes his way to Canada, fooling everyone.

Could it have been written by anyone who knew anything about the hijacking for real? No chance. For one thing, the middle 15 chapters appear to have been written earlier and have no reference to the hijacking. They even give D.B. Cooper’s real name Kenneth (JUST KIDDING!) – Robert Danielson. The Cooper references appear to have been added to sell books and encourage attendance and Dave and Laurel Fisher’s Ariel Days. (The book was written in 1983. Dona Elliot said it was her 23rd event, so it must have been sold in the early 1990s). Might explain why Ariel Tavern has so many copies.

The author appears to have a legal background of some sort. (In addition to describing motions and proceedings at his trial, he also pointed out that he filed a $1000 tax return for 1971 knowing, correctly if I recall my tax courses, that he couldn’t be prosecuted for under reporting income after six years, but could forever if he didn’t file at all!) But some of the facts of the hijacking are laughingly wrong.

- He bought his ticket from a female ticket agent who joked about hijacking
- He gave his name as D. B. Cooper
- He learned a 727 could be jumped by researching at the Vancouver, WA library
- He asked for all 20s
- He carried the money down in his briefcase

It was not a bad book, but totally implausible. Certainly not worth the $159.70 price on Amazon.

[GreyCopGC148 0]

MarkBennett

“Ha Ha Ha” by D. B. Cooper is a surprisingly long book. At 326 pages, it’s longer than Geoff Gray’s book and many other D. B. Cooper books. 377 said he hasn’t read it because it’s fiction. Is it? Could there be any truth in it? I had to find out.

“Ha Ha Ha” is the story of a man who around 1970 was flipping real estate in southern California. He lost everything in a downturn and left town only a step ahead of his creditors. He moved on to burglary – first vacation homes, then houses and finally a pawn shop in an elaborate tunneling operation that netted most of its merchandise. He and an accomplice escaped to another town where they set up their own pawn shop to sell the booty. However, the local organized crime boss found them and forced them to do a job for him – burn some trucks of a trucking company that refused to allow the mob boss’s union in their business. Escaping just barely ahead of the police, they go to another town where they are arrested for an armored car robbery they didn’t commit. The “DB Cooper” character is charged and about to be convicted by crooked cops and D.A.s who knew he was innocent. Incredibly, he makes a mad dash just as the verdict is being read and escapes. He decides he wants one big score to avoid looking over his shoulder. Hence the hijacking. He jumps out near Reno, changes the money in Las Vegas and makes his way to Canada, fooling everyone.

Could it have been written by anyone who knew anything about the hijacking for real? No chance. For one thing, the middle 15 chapters appear to have been written earlier and have no reference to the hijacking. They even give D.B. Cooper’s real name Kenneth (JUST KIDDING!) – Robert Danielson. The Cooper references appear to have been added to sell books and encourage attendance and Dave and Laurel Fisher’s Ariel Days. (The book was written in 1983. Dona Elliot said it was her 23rd event, so it must have been sold in the early 1990s). Might explain why Ariel Tavern has so many copies.

The author appears to have a legal background of some sort. (In addition to describing motions and proceedings at his trial, he also pointed out that he filed a $1000 tax return for 1971 knowing, correctly if I recall my tax courses, that he couldn’t be prosecuted for under reporting income after six years, but could forever if he didn’t file at all!) But some of the facts of the hijacking are laughingly wrong.

- He bought his ticket from a female ticket agent who joked about hijacking
- He gave his name as D. B. Cooper
- He learned a 727 could be jumped by researching at the Vancouver, WA library
- He asked for all 20s
- He carried the money down in his briefcase

It was not a bad book, but totally implausible. Certainly not worth the $159.70 price on Amazon.

You forgot to tell them that it TALK'S ABOUT PLANTING THE MONEY.

Or the airplane Cessna

Or the Silver COINS

OR the RENO LETTER RE he could not remember the name of the paper

OR THE CANADIAN REFERENCE

OR the 50 000 shears of Boeing stock

Or the Raleigh CIGARETS

Or the toupee

All the stuff I was TELLING YOU BEFORE WE BOTH HAD THE BOOK BUT I SAID GOLD COINS NOT SILVER.

REMEMBER LYLE GOT GOLD COINS I GUESS I WAS RIGHT.

KENneths name is in that book

tell them who wrote the book

or did the cover

or the drawing of the judge only

tell them the truth

DB Cooper into the Funnel of Darkness the movie starring Nicolas Cage, Jennifer Anniston and Woody Harrellson... a Jerry Bruckheimer film

Written by Paul Geivett

[GreyCopGC148 0]

GreyCopGC148

***“Ha Ha Ha” by D. B. Cooper is a surprisingly long book. At 326 pages, it’s longer than Geoff Gray’s book and many other D. B. Cooper books. 377 said he hasn’t read it because it’s fiction. Is it? Could there be any truth in it? I had to find out.

“Ha Ha Ha” is the story of a man who around 1970 was flipping real estate in southern California. He lost everything in a downturn and left town only a step ahead of his creditors. He moved on to burglary – first vacation homes, then houses and finally a pawn shop in an elaborate tunneling operation that netted most of its merchandise. He and an accomplice escaped to another town where they set up their own pawn shop to sell the booty. However, the local organized crime boss found them and forced them to do a job for him – burn some trucks of a trucking company that refused to allow the mob boss’s union in their business. Escaping just barely ahead of the police, they go to another town where they are arrested for an armored car robbery they didn’t commit. The “DB Cooper” character is charged and about to be convicted by crooked cops and D.A.s who knew he was innocent. Incredibly, he makes a mad dash just as the verdict is being read and escapes. He decides he wants one big score to avoid looking over his shoulder. Hence the hijacking. He jumps out near Reno, changes the money in Las Vegas and makes his way to Canada, fooling everyone.

Could it have been written by anyone who knew anything about the hijacking for real? No chance. For one thing, the middle 15 chapters appear to have been written earlier and have no reference to the hijacking. They even give D.B. Cooper’s real name Kenneth (JUST KIDDING!) – Robert Danielson. The Cooper references appear to have been added to sell books and encourage attendance and Dave and Laurel Fisher’s Ariel Days. (The book was written in 1983. Dona Elliot said it was her 23rd event, so it must have been sold in the early 1990s). Might explain why Ariel Tavern has so many copies.

The author appears to have a legal background of some sort. (In addition to describing motions and proceedings at his trial, he also pointed out that he filed a $1000 tax return for 1971 knowing, correctly if I recall my tax courses, that he couldn’t be prosecuted for under reporting income after six years, but could forever if he didn’t file at all!) But some of the facts of the hijacking are laughingly wrong.

- He bought his ticket from a female ticket agent who joked about hijacking
- He gave his name as D. B. Cooper
- He learned a 727 could be jumped by researching at the Vancouver, WA library
- He asked for all 20s
- He carried the money down in his briefcase

It was not a bad book, but totally implausible. Certainly not worth the $159.70 price on Amazon.

You forgot to tell them that it TALK'S ABOUT PLANTING THE MONEY.

Or the airplane Cessna

Or the Silver COINS

OR the RENO LETTER RE he could not remember the name of the paper

OR THE CANADIAN REFERENCE

OR the 50 000 shears of Boeing stock

Or the Raleigh CIGARETS

Or the toupee

All the stuff I was TELLING YOU BEFORE WE BOTH HAD THE BOOK BUT I SAID GOLD COINS NOT SILVER.

REMEMBER LYLE GOT GOLD COINS I GUESS I WAS RIGHT.

KENneths name is in that book

tell them who wrote the book

or did the cover

or the drawing of the judge only

tell them the truth

NO YOU CAN"T BUY THEM FROM HER SHE KNOWS THERE WORTH $160 A PIECE I TOLLED HER AND TRIED TO GIVE THEM BACK SHE SAID NO AND ONLY HAS 4 COPIES LEFT. and will not sell them. She will give them away next year. as prizes. But I have 10 copies and I just got 3 poises of Max Gunther's book

I know who gave them to her and when yes I said gave to her

Still no answer on who owned the property before PDX was built

DB Cooper into the Funnel of Darkness the movie starring Nicolas Cage, Jennifer Anniston and Woody Harrellson... a Jerry Bruckheimer film

Written by Paul Geivett

[skyjack71 0]

MarkBennett

“Ha Ha Ha” by D. B. Cooper is a surprisingly long book. At 326 pages, it’s longer than Geoff Gray’s book and many other D. B. Cooper books. 377 said he hasn’t read it because it’s fiction. Is it? Could there be any truth in it? I had to find out.

“Ha Ha Ha” is the story of a man who around 1970 was flipping real estate in southern California. He lost everything in a downturn and left town only a step ahead of his creditors. He moved on to burglary – first vacation homes, then houses and finally a pawn shop in an elaborate tunneling operation that netted most of its merchandise. He and an accomplice escaped to another town where they set up their own pawn shop to sell the booty. However, the local organized crime boss found them and forced them to do a job for him – burn some trucks of a trucking company that refused to allow the mob boss’s union in their business. Escaping just barely ahead of the police, they go to another town where they are arrested for an armored car robbery they didn’t commit. The “DB Cooper” character is charged and about to be convicted by crooked cops and D.A.s who knew he was innocent. Incredibly, he makes a mad dash just as the verdict is being read and escapes. He decides he wants one big score to avoid looking over his shoulder. Hence the hijacking. He jumps out near Reno, changes the money in Las Vegas and makes his way to Canada, fooling everyone.

Could it have been written by anyone who knew anything about the hijacking for real? No chance. For one thing, the middle 15 chapters appear to have been written earlier and have no reference to the hijacking. They even give D.B. Cooper’s real name Kenneth (JUST KIDDING!) – Robert Danielson. The Cooper references appear to have been added to sell books and encourage attendance and Dave and Laurel Fisher’s Ariel Days. (The book was written in 1983. Dona Elliot said it was her 23rd event, so it must have been sold in the early 1990s). Might explain why Ariel Tavern has so many copies.

The author appears to have a legal background of some sort. (In addition to describing motions and proceedings at his trial, he also pointed out that he filed a $1000 tax return for 1971 knowing, correctly if I recall my tax courses, that he couldn’t be prosecuted for under reporting income after six years, but could forever if he didn’t file at all!) But some of the facts of the hijacking are laughingly wrong.

- He bought his ticket from a female ticket agent who joked about hijacking
- He gave his name as D. B. Cooper
- He learned a 727 could be jumped by researching at the Vancouver, WA library
- He asked for all 20s
- He carried the money down in his briefcase

It was not a bad book, but totally implausible. Certainly not worth the $159.70 price on Amazon.

My copy was FREE and was sent to me before I WENT public in 2000.
In never knew who sent me that book but I lay odds it was one of 3 individuals. Note an unusual name in the book - the name of a woman.

Recently a man bearing that same unusual last name told my personal representative that Duane used to date his sister! What is the chance of that? Just an odd coincidence.

Now there is another part of the story that is an ODD co-incidence.
The part where he pays for a dog and 1 yrs supply of dog food. The owner of the shop was to provide that to the next kid longing for a dog and the family unable to buy it or provide for it.


Ever notice the picture of Duane Weber in his navy uniform with his dog!

Co-incidence - my grandfathers name was John Collins & he gave me a Spaniel before I was 3 yrs old. That Spaniel whose name I do not remember saved my life.


I was crying I didn't want to go home - I wanted to go see my daddy. Daddy had a smile in his eyes - that I will always remember.

TRUE STORY!
If I could afford & was able to have another dog - I would want that same dog & I would name him Coop. Coop would then watch over me & protect me - & lie along side of me as I die so I won't be alone. Maybe keep mean people in an assisted living or nursing home from harming me.

I will name him Cooper or Just call him Coop.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[GreyCopGC148 0]

RobertMBlevins

Paul: Sure, Kenny had money when he died, and a stamp and gold/silver coin collection. And a bunch of money in the bank, etc. None of it proves he was DB Cooper.

I think you'll do better laying out your evidence for people to view and discuss rather than flogging your 'Kenny was CERTAINLY Cooper' horse. Geez, man. I have a three-drawer desk full of interview notes, pics, recordings, documents, etc on KC....

And even I can't say for sure he was the guy. And unlike you, I spent more than a year traveling around interviewing the people closest to him. I also had a pretty good private investigator running peoples' stuff for me on a phone call, a service you can bet I used many times.

Yes, I think despite certain protests around here that Kenny deserves to be on the Suspect List. But there is no smoking gun that actually PROVES he was Cooper. I mean that is the bottom line on him. You need to stop lying and saying that agents at the Seattle FBI have confirmed your results. You understand that I could email them and they WOULD verify whether or not they have confirmed KC was Cooper to you, right? They WILL tell me this much if I ask.

SURE YOU WILL CURTIS ENG CALLED ME AND TOLD ME
GET REAL AND LARRY CARR spoke with me on the phone
weeks afterward

CURTIS ENG TOLLED ME THAT SKIP CALLS ALL THE TIME BEGGING TO JUST SAY IT WAS KENNETH.

Curtis Eng hates this case and toll me that himself.

CURTIS ENG OF THE FBI TOLLED ME ON 6 17 2013
that the handwriting matches from the ticket to the letters to the 58 flight-log get over it I have

You not getting this is a bigger mystery than the COOPER case it self

one of you writes a book saying it's K C then the other you tells me it not. Isn't your book called the true story of DB COOPER

Sir you have documented split personalty disorder on this site you are starting to scare me a little. I'm very serous about this. PAUL GEIVETT

I'm really afraid you might hurt your self thats why Iv tried to reach out to you but Sir your on your own.

DB Cooper into the Funnel of Darkness the movie starring Nicolas Cage, Jennifer Anniston and Woody Harrellson... a Jerry Bruckheimer film

Written by Paul Geivett

[GreyCopGC148 0]

GreyCopGC148

***Paul: Sure, Kenny had money when he died, and a stamp and gold/silver coin collection. And a bunch of money in the bank, etc. None of it proves he was DB Cooper.

I think you'll do better laying out your evidence for people to view and discuss rather than flogging your 'Kenny was CERTAINLY Cooper' horse. Geez, man. I have a three-drawer desk full of interview notes, pics, recordings, documents, etc on KC....

And even I can't say for sure he was the guy. And unlike you, I spent more than a year traveling around interviewing the people closest to him. I also had a pretty good private investigator running peoples' stuff for me on a phone call, a service you can bet I used many times.

Yes, I think despite certain protests around here that Kenny deserves to be on the Suspect List. But there is no smoking gun that actually PROVES he was Cooper. I mean that is the bottom line on him. You need to stop lying and saying that agents at the Seattle FBI have confirmed your results. You understand that I could email them and they WOULD verify whether or not they have confirmed KC was Cooper to you, right? They WILL tell me this much if I ask.

SURE YOU WILL CURTIS ENG CALLED ME AND TOLD ME
GET REAL AND LARRY CARR spoke with me on the phone
weeks afterward

CURTIS ENG TOLLED ME THAT SKIP CALLS ALL THE TIME BEGGING TO JUST SAY IT WAS KENNETH.

Curtis Eng hates this case and toll me that himself.

CURTIS ENG OF THE FBI TOLLED ME ON 6 17 2013
that the handwriting matches from the ticket to the letters to the 58 flight-log get over it I have

You not getting this is a bigger mystery than the COOPER case it self

one of you writes a book saying it's K C then the other you tells me it not. Isn't your book called the true story of DB COOPER

Sir you have documented split personalty disorder on this site you are starting to scare me a little. I'm very serous about this. PAUL GEIVETT

I'm really afraid you might hurt your self thats why Iv tried to reach out to you but Sir your on your own.


YOU need to CALL the FBI

DB Cooper into the Funnel of Darkness the movie starring Nicolas Cage, Jennifer Anniston and Woody Harrellson... a Jerry Bruckheimer film

Written by Paul Geivett

[GreyCopGC148 0]

RobertMBlevins

The only part of your post above I actually believe is that Curtis Eng might hate being assigned the Cooper case. That's because it's a sure ticket to nuts coming out of the woodwork on you in reletively large numbers.

No need to 'worry' about me. I'm fine and very happy. But thanks for your concern.

I really started worrying when you posted pics of you shooting your gun and then Mark Bennett saying I should Be shot.

SIR you have the three steps to suicide

1 publicly embarrassed

2 publicly humiliated

3 loss of monetary gain

THE CURES

DB Cooper into the Funnel of Darkness the movie starring Nicolas Cage, Jennifer Anniston and Woody Harrellson... a Jerry Bruckheimer film

Written by Paul Geivett

[FLYJACK 654]

RobertMBlevins

***

premise
no money was found in circulation..
and
it would have been relatively easy for the "hijacker:" to pass the bills after a period of time..

therefore,
he spent the cash

LOGIC..

premise
no money was found in circulation

therefore,
we don't know if the money was spent


So, it really comes down to subjective probability... OPINION

If I had to make a call, I'd say the likelihood that money was passed undetected through to destruction is about the same as myself sinking a single basket from half court, however, the likelihood of finding the cash at TBAR would be like myself sinking 50 baskets in a row from half court...

Not really. (On the liklihood that it is doubtful the bills could have passed through the system without detection.) This is VERY possible. Currently in the US, there are about 4.4 BILLION twenty dollar bills in circulation. Let's cut that in half for 1971, although I don't have a number on that. But let's say TWO billion in circulation back then.

Quotes from the Treasury Department rep in 2010, regarding any search for the Cooper bills:

1) Rep states that due to the number of worn out bills that arrive at Printing and Engraving in DC each day for destruction, any search ordered by the FBI would have been either very short-term or basically ignored. He quotes the job as impossible. Uses word 'truckloads' to describe the amounts, although that is probably an overstatement. In any case, had the Cooper bills eventually reached P and E years later, no one was looking for them anyway by that time. (See below)

2) Rep states that back before computers were really in use, worn bills were checked to see if they were counterfeit, the denominations and total daily amounts recorded, and then they were shredded and replaced with new bills for circulation. Numbers were not recorded on the shredded bills. (I did not ask him if they recorded numbers today) EDIT: After a quick check at Google, I discovered they DO record the serial numbers of worn bills today.

Statement from Larry Carr, Seattle FBI:

Most banks gave up searching their incoming twenties within three months after the list of bills was issued. All had ceased looking after six months. The Federal Reserve banks looked for the longest period of all these entities, but they eventually gave it up as well. Ralph Himmelsbach has claimed that Treasury looked for 'years'. The rep I spoke to disputed that idea strongly. He actually laughed about it. My thought is that Treasury and the FBI did not cooperate with this effort quite as much as the FBI would have liked, due to the sheer magnitude of such a search. (Today, they would just scan all the incoming bills and wait for a hit on one or more of the numbers)

Easy conclusion: After a minimum of six months, it would be reletively safe for the hijacker to pass off the money almost any way he wished without fear of getting caught. Because no one is actually LOOKING for the bills anymore.

1973: Attorney General John Mitchell (yes, THAT one LOL) issued a list of the bills publicly, but only a few newspapers bothered to print it. A Portland newspaper printed the complete list and offered a reward to anyone finding one of the bills. Nothing was ever submitted and the reward program was eventually ended.

To Grey Cop: If you had REALLY solved the case and the case agent in Seattle REALLY agreed with you...they would have gone public with it already and you would be on David Letterman the following week.

What do you mean not really,,, this is logic,, you can't conclude an affirmative from a negative, PERIOD.

You can say we don't know, or maybe, possibly, in theory, IMO etc. but you can't say the lack of money found in circ proves the money was spent. built on the SPECULATION of others. THIS IS NOT LOGIC. Speculation has its place, but you can't use speculation to prove the affirmative from a negation.

You seem to be arguing a speculation.. an opinion in place of proof.

[mrshutter45 21]

"You seem to be arguing a speculation.. an opinion in place of proof."

That's Blevins in a nutshell.....

it's not the point of logic. it has to make sense in order for Kenny to purchase the house he paid cash for (lmao) $14,000, $15.500..no it's $16,500. I can see the logic already

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[FLYJACK 654]

I've recreated the FBI flightpath as a movie in Google Earth.

I overlaid the FBI flightpath (exactly) then recorded the flight following the black ink path from different heights, it is interesting to see the terrain,, my first impression on the terrain is "definitely survivable jump"

I realize that the FBI flight path is controversial..

I have about ten different versions, different heights and some with the FBI map overlay visible, let's see if this works,,

You might be able to adjust the "flight path" file overlay transparency by selecting it then moving the slider..

let me know if it works

[mrshutter45 21]

FLYJACK

I recreated the FBI flightpath movie in Google Earth.

I overlaid the FBI flightpath (exactly) then recorded the flight following the black ink path from different heights, it is interesting to see the terrain,, my first impression on thee terrain is "definitely survivable jump"

I realize that the FBI flight path is controversial..

I have about ten different versions, different heights and some with the FBI map overlay visible, let's see if this works,,

I think you might be able to adjust the "flight path" file overlay transparency with the slider..

let me know if it works

I'm currently doing the same via flight simulator. I had a lot of problems with software, but it's now ready for testing which will resume after the Holidays.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_yR3PdgUgis

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[MarkBennett 5]

RobertMBlevins

Mark...you can get copies from Dona Elliot at the Ariel for six bucks...

She sold them this year for two bucks.

[matthewcline 0]

GreyCopGC148

***perhaps you could explain this post made several days ago?

"On another note; "No Sir, the case is still open, it has not been solved. No, we are not close to making an announcement. Yes, leads are still being looked in to, but we do not have any current viable suspects, all past suspects are still that, suspect, but not viable for the highjacking. (And honestly, no new evidence to suggest any new suspects. Yeah, that site, interesting to say the least) You be safe out there Officer"

Matt "

I would tell Him to call me but he won't 360 975 9601
ask him to show you the results form FBI lab Virgina
ask him if your shoes are untied thats the only way you would know.

Curtis Eng told me that some people don't want this case solved and I see that's you

Its the FBI policy not to comment on a ongoing investigation
but Curtis Eng made an exception.

Good LUCK Sir find a new hobby try metal detecting

sorry Sir but Paul Geivett of Vancouver WA state Solved the DB COOPER CASE ON 6 13 13 get over it no body is hiding the letter's from you or the ticket

Go out side in the lite of day and ask someone you don't know if they think the handwriting matches. Don' tell them it has any thing to do with DB COOPER.

THEY all will say yes. ASK 12 and your done

The only people that say no are on this site only 7 or so

You have $$$$$$$$$ motivation Sir that's all Greed$$$$$$$$$$ ask your doctor next time you see him if he thing the handwriting matches. Then ask him to explain DNA to you

I spell Curtis Eng that way not Matt tell Matt to call the ST patrol if he want's me to show him who DB COOPER IS OR HE CAN WATCH MY VIDEOS FOR HIMSELF AND SAVE ME ANOTHER SPEEDING TICKET Sir you DENIAL is almost unbelievable it's shocking YOU WILL NEVER BE ABEL TO TALK TO CURTIS ENG EVER AGAIN. you will get the media department isn't that right Curtis.

Controversy will sell more of my book than the case being solved
conspiracy Ill sell even more that way so keep it up Sir
Case solved every body can go home low book sales I like it your way. So keep up the good work SIR

Who do you want to call you?
Since no one here believes you, nor apparently any LEO who may be associated with the case, and many who are following it.

Since it appears you are making up all your supposed conversations, I am loath to think you have had any with anyone out side this page, or outside this format.

But, at least you are finally admitting why you are making your claim, Money. Money is usually the first motivation for most crimes, even ones that aren't illegal.

To the forum, Have a Merry Christmas! I'm going to kit up and get to work. See ya later!

Matt

An Instructors first concern is student safety.
So, start being safe, first!!!

[mrshutter45 21]

"To the forum, Have a Merry Christmas!"

Happy Holidays to you and your family Matt.....

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[smokin99 0]

MarkBennett

***
Mark...you can get copies from Dona Elliot at the Ariel for six bucks...

She sold them this year for two bucks.

Well hello, that obviously means that she is selling them like hotcakes so she can afford to sell them for less...you know...cause she's selling so many....
You know...like no one was looking for the numbers after 3 - 6 months (wherever that came from - it doesn't really matter because truth and accuracy have no place in this saga), and... miraculously, the hijacker knew this somehow... and therefore had no fear of being caught.
Hallelujah! ....So he spent all that money. Better yet he gave some of it away to special friends and maybe a mafia guy/assassin or two so there would be no record that he spent it anywhere..including, but not limited to, the commissary, LDS bookstore, the Nepal 5 and dime, and the Bonney Lake Rent-a-Tiller.....
Oh yes, a Merry Christmas was had by all...well except that his really special friend that helped in the hijacking didn't get anything because the hijacker stashed his partner's share in the attic above his head/glove compartment in the van/little red sports car....so that he could bury it/throw it off the bridge/stow it in a milk can at Tena's Bar years later in order to throw everyone off track)......even though he had already spent the money years before without fear, because they never found any twenties, because they weren't looking in the casinos, banks, and Piggly Wigglys.

Far be it from me to bust up such logic with a simple...perhaps, just maybe, coincidentally, the twenties were never found in circulation because they never made it to circulation. Nah......that's too damn simple for the cooper case.
Besides it seriously screws up the world for all of us Cooper nuts

but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

[mrshutter45 21]

yep, commit a Federal offense by threatening to kill dozens of people only to bury the money, or hide it and live in poverty for years. then come back years later and dig it up only to find your hard work is ruined and toss it away AGAIN??? they should have known the money couldn't be detected because the tellers pulled there hair out every time a 20 passed the counter lol

didn't they find McCoy's jump suit and duffel bag in his closet? no secret hiding spot, no long strung out digging at different locations etc. if the suspect is comfortable enough to know they are not on to him. they keep the cash close by.

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[Robert99 37]

FLYJACK

I've recreated the FBI flightpath as a movie in Google Earth.

I overlaid the FBI flightpath (exactly) then recorded the flight following the black ink path from different heights, it is interesting to see the terrain,, my first impression on the terrain is "definitely survivable jump"

I realize that the FBI flight path is controversial..

I have about ten different versions, different heights and some with the FBI map overlay visible, let's see if this works,,

You might be able to adjust the "flight path" file overlay transparency by selecting it then moving the slider..

let me know if it works

Flyjack,

I hate to tell you this, but the so-called FBI maps are worthless. For instance, take a look at the distances flown per minute. At a constant speed, do you fly 3 miles in one minute and then 6 miles in the very next minute? Also, no pilot would fly a segmented circle around the west side of Portland while operating under the conditions that existed for NWA 305.

Then there is the problem of the FBI not knowing where these maps came from in the first place and Himmelsbach reportedly stating that he had never seen them prior to the last few years.

None of the above means anything to Blevins and Jo Weber since they do not have to obey the laws of logic. At least not if Blevins can sell books otherwise. What Jo Weber is getting out of this whole exercise remains unknown and that is the biggest mystery on this thread.

Robert99

[FLYJACK 654]

Robert99

***I've recreated the FBI flightpath as a movie in Google Earth.

I overlaid the FBI flightpath (exactly) then recorded the flight following the black ink path from different heights, it is interesting to see the terrain,, my first impression on the terrain is "definitely survivable jump"

I realize that the FBI flight path is controversial..

I have about ten different versions, different heights and some with the FBI map overlay visible, let's see if this works,,

You might be able to adjust the "flight path" file overlay transparency by selecting it then moving the slider..

let me know if it works

Flyjack,

I hate to tell you this, but the so-called FBI maps are worthless. For instance, take a look at the distances flown per minute. At a constant speed, do you fly 3 miles in one minute and then 6 miles in the very next minute? Also, no pilot would fly a segmented circle around the west side of Portland while operating under the conditions that existed for NWA 305.

Then there is the problem of the FBI not knowing where these maps came from in the first place and Himmelsbach reportedly stating that he had never seen them prior to the last few years.


Robert99

yes, I know, the actual flightpath is uncertain, but this video represents the FBI version, from this video you can judge it in context, pro or con... my goal was to get a good sense of the terrain, not to propose that this was the actual flightpath and judging by the twists and turns, it is questionable.

Another view, lower to get a sense of the terrain,,

..

[smokin99 0]

Just want to add my holiday greetings to the mix.
Hope everyone is healthy, warm, well-fed, and worry-free.
I'm through with the shopping stuff, so don't know why, but I'm gonna head back out into the fray....a glutton for punishment...I must be out of my ever-lasting gourd....

but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

[FLYJACK 654]

RobertMBlevins

*********

premise
no money was found in circulation..
and
it would have been relatively easy for the "hijacker:" to pass the bills after a period of time..

therefore,
he spent the cash

LOGIC..

premise
no money was found in circulation

therefore,
we don't know if the money was spent


So, it really comes down to subjective probability... OPINION

If I had to make a call, I'd say the likelihood that money was passed undetected through to destruction is about the same as myself sinking a single basket from half court, however, the likelihood of finding the cash at TBAR would be like myself sinking 50 baskets in a row from half court...

Not really. (On the liklihood that it is doubtful the bills could have passed through the system without detection.) This is VERY possible. Currently in the US, there are about 4.4 BILLION twenty dollar bills in circulation. Let's cut that in half for 1971, although I don't have a number on that. But let's say TWO billion in circulation back then.

Quotes from the Treasury Department rep in 2010, regarding any search for the Cooper bills:

1) Rep states that due to the number of worn out bills that arrive at Printing and Engraving in DC each day for destruction, any search ordered by the FBI would have been either very short-term or basically ignored. He quotes the job as impossible. Uses word 'truckloads' to describe the amounts, although that is probably an overstatement. In any case, had the Cooper bills eventually reached P and E years later, no one was looking for them anyway by that time. (See below)

2) Rep states that back before computers were really in use, worn bills were checked to see if they were counterfeit, the denominations and total daily amounts recorded, and then they were shredded and replaced with new bills for circulation. Numbers were not recorded on the shredded bills. (I did not ask him if they recorded numbers today) EDIT: After a quick check at Google, I discovered they DO record the serial numbers of worn bills today.

Statement from Larry Carr, Seattle FBI:

Most banks gave up searching their incoming twenties within three months after the list of bills was issued. All had ceased looking after six months. The Federal Reserve banks looked for the longest period of all these entities, but they eventually gave it up as well. Ralph Himmelsbach has claimed that Treasury looked for 'years'. The rep I spoke to disputed that idea strongly. He actually laughed about it. My thought is that Treasury and the FBI did not cooperate with this effort quite as much as the FBI would have liked, due to the sheer magnitude of such a search. (Today, they would just scan all the incoming bills and wait for a hit on one or more of the numbers)

Easy conclusion: After a minimum of six months, it would be reletively safe for the hijacker to pass off the money almost any way he wished without fear of getting caught. Because no one is actually LOOKING for the bills anymore.

1973: Attorney General John Mitchell (yes, THAT one LOL) issued a list of the bills publicly, but only a few newspapers bothered to print it. A Portland newspaper printed the complete list and offered a reward to anyone finding one of the bills. Nothing was ever submitted and the reward program was eventually ended.

To Grey Cop: If you had REALLY solved the case and the case agent in Seattle REALLY agreed with you...they would have gone public with it already and you would be on David Letterman the following week.

What do you mean not really,,, this is logic,, you can't conclude an affirmative from a negative, PERIOD.

You can say we don't know, or maybe, possibly, in theory, IMO etc. but you can't say the lack of money found in circ proves the money was spent. built on the SPECULATION of others. THIS IS NOT LOGIC. Speculation has its place, but you can't use speculation to prove the affirmative from a negation.

You seem to be arguing a speculation.. an opinion in place of proof.

I'm just saying that the premise that the money positively did NOT enter circulation has flaws.

But, nobody is suggesting that.

[smokin99 0]

The numbers list was distributed in December 1971.

According to the FBI document from their website, the numbers were distributed to FBI offices around the country as well as police departments and "various business establishments".

The list must have been reasonably well distributed or at the very least readily available before 1973 when it was published in the newspaper - because the serial numbers were used in the Karl Fleming hoax in Feb 1972. Fleming had access to the list (I'm guessing from his work as a journalist).
He said that is how he got duped - because the serial number(s) that he saw matched number(s) on the list.
(If I'm remembering correctly, Lewis and Murphy showed Fleming photocopies of the bills)

but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

[mrshutter45 21]

smokin99

The numbers list was distributed in December 1971.

According to the FBI document from their website, the numbers were distributed to FBI offices around the country as well as police departments and "various business establishments".

The list must have been reasonably well distributed or at the very least readily available before 1973 when it was published in the newspaper - because the serial numbers were used in the Karl Fleming hoax in Feb 1972. Fleming had access to the list (I'm guessing from his work as a journalist).
He said that is how he got duped - because the serial number(s) that he saw matched number(s) on the list.
(If I'm remembering correctly, Lewis and Murphy showed Fleming photocopies of the bills)

that would be correct. the FBI has them in the FBI vault thingy on there site showing the fake bills.

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[skyjack71 0]

FLYJACK

I've recreated the FBI flightpath as a movie in Google Earth.

I overlaid the FBI flightpath (exactly) then recorded the flight following the black ink path from different heights, it is interesting to see the terrain,, my first impression on the terrain is "definitely survivable jump"

I realize that the FBI flight path is controversial..

I have about ten different versions, different heights and some with the FBI map overlay visible, let's see if this works,,

You might be able to adjust the "flight path" file overlay transparency by selecting it then moving the slider..

let me know if it works

Most of us have tried that.
Mine was tracing the flight path Sluggo did on clear plastic and moving it on the map. Why I kept saying 1 minute up and 1 minute East and it was then it put Cooper landing East of where the FBI put him and further North.

Evidently there is NOW new infomation available about the co-ordinates of the flight - just a jest I got out of one Robert99's post of recent.....one he did NOT elaborate on.

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