mrshutter45 21 #41851 August 1, 2013 testxyz Quote this was his answer to KC being short. I found these, they might work! Picture attached. I posted the same boots. nice 'pair a loafers' "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyjack71 0 #41852 August 1, 2013 Curious! When was the containment pond put in. What YR. Was it there in 1971, 1979 and 2001. Since I didn't understand a lot of what Fazio was talking about and the crew was not from the area....I am sure they didn't ask about it. As for 1979 - I only know what I could see from the parking and under the trees. 2001 was the first time I had been ON the beach. Unlike Blevins I don't propose to grasp the conversation, but ask STUPID old woman question. Thank YOU,Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyjack71 0 #41853 August 1, 2013 Viewing that ticket brought back VIVID memories. It was like a flash back in time. I dump the shop record for a specif yr on the bed (Duane had broke his leg early in 1994). He told me he would do it, but I proceeded to go thru the things in the box. When I held that ticket up I said "My, this is an OLD ticket" His reply was that it used to mean something but it didn't any more. I was seeing what I held in my hands that night only it was WHITE. Seeing the numbers it was like the moment was replaying in my mind. The date I read out loud. I held it in my hands. Later that evening he would ask me what I did with the plane ticket. I didn't remember which pile it was in and went promptly to the garage as the bag was just outside to the door. I was going to take it to the garbage can the next day. Since he sounded concerned I went out to the garage and sat on the stoop into the house and went thru the throw away stuff. Then I told him it was NOT there so I must have put it back in the box. A couple of days later I am putting away the laudery and he is still having to keep weight off his leg - he had a cast, but the soft kind with staves. I go to put away his laundry and he tell me he will do it - I had always put away the laudery and in the op drawer where his shorts where was the TICKET. I made comment about his finding it, but still did NOT understand the significance of it. What he did with it later I do not know, but when I looked in the drawer another time it was GONE. God, If I had only know who Dan Cooper was and that he jumped on Nov 24, 1971..there would be no mystery. About a yr later when he is dying he tells me "I'm Dan Coooper". Of course I did NOT understand what he was talking about. He tells me there are things in the VAN but he doesn't tell me where - he was then on morphine. Dear God IN HEAVEN deliver me from this HELL. I never made one word of this up - not ONE! I didn't even find anything hid in the VAN. The man who bought it did and all he returned to me was the the old wallet. It is obvious looking at that old wallet that it held more than what was returned to me. The man who found the wallet did NOT KNOW until this yr that the ransom was in $20 bills. He hung up on me. WHY! Hell when I sold the car his girl friend had to borrow the money to do it and/or co-signed with him. If he found a 20 or more 20's after finding out I didn't know anything about the wallet - he figured I didn't know what was in it....I did ask....and he said nothing about money - just my husband's ID and military records. Those papers had the name of JOHN COLLINS on them - not DUANE L. WEBER. Then when he brings me the wallet I asked what was in it and he tells me he didn't know - he didn't look! NOW, why did he tell me 2 different stories and why did he hang up on me a few months ago when I told him the ransom was in 20's bill? He told me he didn't know that! Then he hung up! Note I did NOT over the yrs call him. I would go to see him and his wife after I got the letter from the FBI in 1998 dismissing Duane based on FINGER PRINTS. I asked a few questions at that time about anything addtional he might have found besides the wallet. He didn't remember anything significant - I wanted to know if there was any other papers with the wallet. I wasn't think money. I didn't mention money. Therefore I had few contacts with this man and he lives in this area. 1. when I sold them the car 2. when he called me 3. when he returned the wallet 4. when I went to see them after the FBI sent me their letter in 1998 5. one other call over the yrs. 6. the 2013 call this yr. He called me about buying the vehicle before he disposed of it, but at that time I declined as I had no money to purchase it and no interest... So this individual has never been harassed and he lives in my area. The FBI never recontacted him to my knowledge and I do not know what he told the FBI.Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BruceSmith 3 #41854 August 1, 2013 Does anyone know if Tom Kaye's team, or anyone else, has found, on the money or elsewhere, any evidence that would point to contamination by anything that would be fed to cows or excreted by them? ***************************************** Bruce, I was hoping that you or someone else could tell me your findings in this matter. Robert99 Quote I know of no residues on the biils that come from cows or any other source. I've corresponded with Georger and Tom Kaye on the subject, and I don't know of any substantive findings along these lines. Galen also has a team looking into the subject, but again, I don't know any of his findings. I think the subject is an excellent one to explore. I would think that something would be on the bills that would tell us a bit about where it was for eight years prior to the Ingrams' hot dog roast in 1980. Welcome home. BTW, R99, would you like a free electronic copy of my book on Cooper? I have made this offer to all the DZ's readers as a way to soften up the resistence of the powers that be in the publishing world. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skyjack71 0 #41855 August 1, 2013 I let go of a lot of things. I told the agent things I have never told before. For the 1st time he did NOT cut me short....he wanted to know if I had put this in writing and had provided to the FBI (hell I thought he was FBI). I told him I WAS afraid in the past to provide certain things to the FBI and to others because I thought what I actually knew would turn people away. Every time I attemped to tell the past of Duane Weber (one he told me over the yrs in 3rd person) NO one cared & NO one believed me. It was when the Treasure Isle arrest was shown in this thread - something the FBI had NEVER told me. You guys know I connected a lot of thing & only one person on this thread has a clue what I mean. I was with this man for 17yrs and knew him for 6 months prior to that. The places we went & the people we met - they were just people. It would be over the last few yrs I found out who several of these individuals where & something about their past. I remember faces & places that are important. Faces out of the past - individuals I actually met. Strange, Weber with his backgound as a criminal would even know the individuals...who & how was such a strange group of men brought together? I refrained from mentioning the incidents and the people because I thought it would make me SOUND like someone looking for a story like Blevins and Marla and others over the yrs. I was also AFRAID to mention names - if I was wrong I could be sued and people would make fun of me and say I was contriving a story. I was more AFRAID of mentioning the people because there are those who are still alive that might not like it too much and I always asked myself - WHAT IF I WAS WRONG. WHAT IF I TELL SOMEONE I WAS WITH SO AND SO IN SUCH AND SUCH PLACE AND THEY CAN PROVE THEY WERE SOMEPLACE ELSE....WHAT IF I MISTAKENLY IDENTIFIED AN INDIVIDUAL BASED ON ONE PICTURE OR 2 IN THE MEDIA? After all who would believe me - the woman who claimed her husband was Dan Cooper - she is just a NUT CASE! Duane Weber was just a common goofy bad thief - he would never be able to pull something like a skyjacking off...much less be involved in other sinister things. Others would say he was too nice and there was NO way he ever committed a crime or was in prison. In the late 1950's a very wealthy man who loved this country tried to help the political figures he so admired & the country he called home. His way was by the back door. He formed a group of men - misfits to be agents in a secret group. (I am being careful of my words not to mention names or places). In the 60's this group had infiltrated where NO secret agent of operative could go - deep within the Mafia & the Unions and the criminal world. When Kennedy was killed all of you know he was WARNED there would be an attempt on his life - and this group was there to protect and do NO harm - the warning was supposedly delivered to him by someone close to him. It was said he may never have gotten the message. They went unarmed hoping to intervene in some way. They even thought or hoped there was nothing brewing - but, we all know it actually happend. I am still talking in circle because I am afraid of it. 2 men from N.Orleans had to leave to give depositions under alises by Anderson (my memory forgets his name now) - the name whose file were taken from his widow (all of them - and not just those from a specific incidence). I acutally met one of the Plumbers, but didn't know this until a few yrs ago. I actually overheard a strange conversation. The host was another one - an unlikely man a very tall man. He actually came out of the house to speak with me. I remember what he was wearing and what he looked like and I would see a picture of him later as he appeared that night and then on TV and then in my research.. A very handsome man - how the hell would a simple woman like me not remember a man like that. Then there was the baby face - the sweet young guy. He just told me that he and Duane went way back. This was 1982. These guys were having a reunion of sorts I guess....this guy was really young in 1982 he was about 34 maybe - how far could he and Duane go back? Then there was Meire - her first name eluded me tonight - her husband was in Canada and they hailed from Las Vegas - of course I have mentioned this in the thread and about the yacth in Ft. Lauderdale. Now that I know who she & her husband was - how the HELL did Duane have such intimate contacts with people like that. They had private discuss away from me on a very very large Yacht - Large staterooms and plenty of places for the cooks and servers - we are NOT talking about a toy boat. A meeting in ATLANTA for a company we did not work for. NO pictures, but I did get in a few shots of the women and the MAN, but NOT of the GUYS. Just one of them and now it turns out to be that he is a man who was supposed to be dead. The next day Duane tell me he has to deliver a package, but I didn't understand the transaction ( the man we delivered it to I have been told was a very dangerous man). Connected to Chicago Mafia. Big mistake was trying to contact people out of Duane's past. I could have become fish bait in the Atlantic if I had said the wrong things. I think one of the contacts initiated by the other person was to see how much I knew - about what Duane was involved in. One guy Duane worked for in CO connected to all of this told me he didn't remember Duane. Duane had La Vegas connections - the one legged guy was chauffeur for the Hughes! The one whose ashes are in the Gulf of Mexico & his head in cryogenics. Duane was in Jefferson with the man who murdered Martin Luther. He and his wife knew Ferrie. Duane was recruited in Canon 1962 or perhaps before he got out and this is where I believe PaperLeg, Tony and Tommy enter the pic. Never have figured this out. Some how between 1962 and 1965 a lots of time is spent in N.Orleans - maybe it was a easy place for a con man to hide. 1965 Duane goes to Kansas. how. They are on the move constantly. They go there with a job and with money - but they go thru it pretty quickly and Duane is back in prison, but he goes in as John Collins. All of you have read this story many times over. 1968 they go to CO until the FBI comes looking for them. They head back to N.Orleans - and leave when Camile comes in. Little income in 1969 & 1970 & 1971 (works all over the place) Columbia and Atlanta and in AL - back and forth) they sure lived pretty good....2 new cars in 1972 after a trip to N.Y. and Ft Lauderdale where Duane tried to buy a boat - a sea going boat (per the wife of the day). He had also told me about the boat. They had the money to pay cash! While in Columbia (1969/1970 I think) - he is training by swimming laps - & he disappears for wks at a time and always sends money home to the wife. They seem to take LOTS of trips to Kansas and FL. BRR - that is the key - BRR! Georger who do you know with the initials BRR. All of these writers who claim they know who Cooper is - perhaps I should lay the story I have on the line. Highly more probable than the stories circulating out there right now. Odd the new guy's story parallels the story I have hinted at for yrs - some of it right here in this thread. I decided to step away from the secret covert type of thing and move in a different direction, but then along comes 2 more pulling their story in the same directions and you guys take a big BITE out of the damn APPLE. Sure hope you don't get to SICK by eating too many green apples.Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites BruceSmith 3 #41856 August 1, 2013 Hmm...I can see this a nice gesture on your part. Let me venture a couple of comments on that idea. First, the book is unedited. If you pass out too many copies free now, and later it is professionally edited, then the people who you allowed to have it will be comparing the final version to the unedited version when referring to it, or making quotes. If people in the Cooper Biz are going to make references to it, you always want them to have the best version possible. Second, if there are differences between Manuscript A and Edited Manuscript B, you will hear about that later in some form or another. There's an old saying in the publishing biz: Even an editor needs an editor. A manuscript is NOT a book. It is simply an unedited manuscript. My humble advice is to not release too many copies of the unedited version before you have the polished product ready. I have the greatest hopes for you, and I sincerely wish you luck getting that book published by a standard house. But they don't care how many people have the rough draft in hand. They only care about the finished product you submit. Even though I've edited more than fifty books now, I know better than to try and edit my own stuff. *** You are very welcome, Robert. I'm glad you enjoyed the gift. You are quite correct. Every book needs a good editor. That is why I am headed to New York for a spell, to find one, along with an agent and a publishing house that can give my work the support it needs to deliver my work to the greater public. Thanks for your encouragement. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites georger 197 #41857 August 1, 2013 RobertMBlevinsAccording to Geoff Gray in his book, It must be damned convenient for you to have Gray's book to back your bias up (you have played that to the hilt since coming here!) and sit here speculating and peddling myth endlessly. Maybe Gray and You arent the final word? If it wasn't Gray it would be somebody or something else _ like Georger! Get a Life! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites georger 197 #41858 August 1, 2013 BruceSmith Does anyone know if Tom Kaye's team, or anyone else, has found, on the money or elsewhere, any evidence that would point to contamination by anything that would be fed to cows or excreted by them? ***************************************** Bruce, I was hoping that you or someone else could tell me your findings in this matter. Robert99 Quote I know of no residues on the biils that come from cows or any other source. I've corresponded with Georger and Tom Kaye on the subject, and I don't know of any substantive findings along these lines. Galen also has a team looking into the subject, but again, I don't know any of his findings. I think the subject is an excellent one to explore. I would think that something would be on the bills that would tell us a bit about where it was for eight years prior to the Ingrams' hot dog roast in 1980. Welcome home. BTW, R99, would you like a free electronic copy of my book on Cooper? I have made this offer to all the DZ's readers as a way to soften up the resistence of the powers that be in the publishing world. My first thought was that pollutants had leaked down through the soil of the retention ditch into the beach sands and thus to the money site. Several people including the Fazios said their cattle had never used the pasture adjacent to the retention area. The reason for being concerned about this was 'things normally pick up traits of the environment they are found in, depending on the amount of time of exposure'. I thought nitrate and ammonia levels in the money might give some clue as to the amount of time the Ingram find had been in its present location. Then it turned out (if the reports are accurate) that the cattle had not been in that area for a number of years. Then several people surfaced to say tey didn't think retention ditch pollutants would convey to the Ingram site area. Then Tom's results didn't seem to show any high levels of ammonia or nitrate commensurate with cattle. The issue kind of fell by the wayside (so far as I know). Mr. Geivette is contending the 'silver in the money' is associated with silver in the Lewis River mud! I wasn't aware the Lewis River mud contains silver or gold (which would be particulate vs solution). Meantime we all know the socalled 'silver in the money' and the 'blackening of some bills' was due to the FBI fingerprinting of the money using a silver nitrate solution. Mr. Geivette has his fact wrong. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites testxyz 0 #41859 August 1, 2013 Quotenice 'pair a loafers I thought the Para Loafers would be funny! On another topic..... I was watching a Larry Carr video at Youtube and he was displaying some Cooper artifacts including the reserve chute which Cooper cut rope from. Car is clutching a bundle of rope/cord with one hand like one might do to cut it. "Did the FBI check the bundle of ropes/cords for DNA?" Larry Carr video below http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VLOgfkv4alk Picture of Larry Carr holding cut reserve chute rope attached. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mrshutter45 21 #41860 August 1, 2013 testxyzQuotenice 'pair a loafers I thought the Para Loafers would be funny! On another topic..... I was watching a Larry Carr video at Youtube and he was displaying some Cooper artifacts including the reserve chute which Cooper cut rope from. Car is clutching a bundle of rope/cord with one hand like one might do to cut it. "Did the FBI check the bundle of ropes/cords for DNA?" Larry Carr video below http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VLOgfkv4alk Picture of Larry Carr holding cut reserve chute rope attached. do you mean to check the rope for skin cells? I'm sure it's been handled by many and contaminated to zero value."It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites testxyz 0 #41861 August 1, 2013 Quotedo you mean to check the rope for skin cells? I'm sure it's been handled by many and contaminated to zero value. I was thinking since the cord is braided (SOME) of the skin cells from DB Cooper could still be lodged within the braids. If Cooper was tugging and stretching the cord in order to cut it, a better chance of skin cells being caught within the interwoven braids or within the elastic sheath. He would have been the only person to handle the cords in such a tugging and pulling manner. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites matthewcline 0 #41862 August 2, 2013 mrshutter45 ***Maybe he meant the French Para's Jump Boot? It is said to have a "springier" sole. But they too look very much like a boot, not dress shoes. Matt this is what I found...Men Vintage PARA SAUT France Paraboot Black Leather Jump Combat Lace Up Boots Size 9 (see photo) you would see him a mile away walking around in these.... this was his answer to KC being short.....Yep, those are them. Makes his story pretty laughable huh? MattAn Instructors first concern is student safety. So, start being safe, first!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ParrotheadVol 70 #41863 August 2, 2013 mrshutter45 I would say you would have to put a lot of false memory in the passenger accounts. they had no reason to pay attention to him. if I seen you walk into a store and noticed you passed the same guy several times. I wonder if you could tell me how old he was, weather he had a round jaw etc. nobody claimed seeing a wig or makeup on Cooper. these are hard facts to get around. Tina said she had to look up at him. very hard to dispute. she was calm enough to interact with him, take part in notes etc. everyone see's things differently. a friend could call you and say he ran out of gas and walked at least a mile and a half. you show up and take him to his car and realize it was only about a half a mile. is the drawing of Cooper close? who knows. it's funny how all of you put your suspect right beside him though. then claim descriptions could be incorrect on his hair, eyes, height etc. you have shown how bad witnesses can be on composites, but you have KC right beside the drawing. I've said it many times. this is much different than the average crime that last only seconds and descriptions are bad in these cases, but not all the time. this crime lasted hours. I'm sure it was an eternity for a few. they were able to look long and hard at him. this is also different than other unsolved cases like Alcatraz & Hoffa. it's a little harder to create a suspect since there backgrounds are known. only false sightings can spawn from them. I would tend to think the description will be better than the composite. Williams said it was off, Flo said the same, but I don't recall the height or weight being an issue. Good points. The description by Tina and Flo have to be weighted more than the passengers because they had to know that if they survived this, they would have to describe this guy to the authorities. The passengers didn't have a clue what was going on. No way that one of them gave a more accurate description."They were saying he was never gonna make it now, now that daylight had set in. But later that night, they were shining those lights back down on that mountain again." - Todd Snider Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites georger 197 #41864 August 2, 2013 ParrotheadVol ***I would say you would have to put a lot of false memory in the passenger accounts. they had no reason to pay attention to him. if I seen you walk into a store and noticed you passed the same guy several times. I wonder if you could tell me how old he was, weather he had a round jaw etc. nobody claimed seeing a wig or makeup on Cooper. these are hard facts to get around. Tina said she had to look up at him. very hard to dispute. she was calm enough to interact with him, take part in notes etc. everyone see's things differently. a friend could call you and say he ran out of gas and walked at least a mile and a half. you show up and take him to his car and realize it was only about a half a mile. is the drawing of Cooper close? who knows. it's funny how all of you put your suspect right beside him though. then claim descriptions could be incorrect on his hair, eyes, height etc. you have shown how bad witnesses can be on composites, but you have KC right beside the drawing. I've said it many times. this is much different than the average crime that last only seconds and descriptions are bad in these cases, but not all the time. this crime lasted hours. I'm sure it was an eternity for a few. they were able to look long and hard at him. this is also different than other unsolved cases like Alcatraz & Hoffa. it's a little harder to create a suspect since there backgrounds are known. only false sightings can spawn from them. I would tend to think the description will be better than the composite. Williams said it was off, Flo said the same, but I don't recall the height or weight being an issue. Good points. The description by Tina and Flo have to be weighted more than the passengers because they had to know that if they survived this, they would have to describe this guy to the authorities. The passengers didn't have a clue what was going on. No way that one of them gave a more accurate description. Quote Unfortunately we probably will never know. While Gray's book highlights exceptions there is nothing of an official explanation (commentary) from the FBI side, especially by those who were there and involved. Ckret gave one account but the ciritics dont accept that (in the extreme). Faced with that situation the Kool Aide is ready to be served. Hopfully all concerned will die quietly! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skyjack71 0 #41865 August 2, 2013 testxyz On another topic..... I was watching a Larry Carr video at Youtube and he was displaying some Cooper artifacts including the reserve chute which Cooper cut rope from. Car is clutching a bundle of rope/cord with one hand like one might do to cut it. "Did the FBI check the bundle of ropes/cords for DNA?" Larry Carr video below http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VLOgfkv4alk Picture of Larry Carr holding cut reserve chute rope attached. Jo Weber (that is me) bugged this thread and the FBI about that for a long time and as far as I know they never checked the cords for DNA. I also have a knife with a piece of cord in it - but again the FBI was not interested. Seems like when DNA became the thing - the FBI would have checked the cord ends, as one knows to make a clean cut you form a loop with the cord with one hand and take the knife and make the cut. NO one seems to dwell on the fact Tina thought Cooper was left handed. Weber was left handed. Duane did use the dark broader points for his books. Also I have many many samples of his writing, but nothing from Cooper to compare them with. I have samples of his handwriting from several stages in his life - but, nothing for the FBI to compare with. I still believe the piece of cord in that old knife Sluggo said was lint and was going to discard it is a piece of cord. I took tweezers and put it back in the knife in the place it was - even though Sluggo was going to discard it.Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skyjack71 0 #41866 August 2, 2013 377 Quote do you mean to check the rope for skin cells? I'm sure it's been handled by many and contaminated to zero value. BUT, they should have checked the cord for DNA - all DNA when it became a remarkable marker. That way the DNA found even though it would have been multiple - could have been used at least for a way to limit suspects. Bet there is still DNA on that rope! BETCHA! and I bet one of those DNA's will match Duane's. IF they do NOT have Duane's DNA - I do have 2 very reliable items that will have his DNA on them....items I with held because of my attachment to them and one because of its value. Thank Goodness I did - they kept the DNA from 2003 until 2008 before it was returned. A valuable watch would probably have disappeared.Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Robert99 37 #41867 August 2, 2013 Last week enroute to Vancouver, I made a specific point of driving the entire length of the Columbia River Gorge from east to west during a beautiful, sunny, afternoon with no cloud cover whatsoever. The wind cooperated a bit by blowing from the west at about 30 miles per hour. While the wind at ground level (the entire route is at sea level for all practical purposes) was sufficient to create an occasional problem in driving, it was not indicative of any wind problems at higher altitudes. In fact, the terrain along the Gorge is not very high and the wind would only cause problems, if any at all, for light aircraft flying at low altitude within the Gorge itself. Consequently, I see no reason at all to believe that an airliner flying at 10,000 feet above sea level, and about 20 or 30 miles (minimum) upwind of the Gorge, would be adversely impacted by any winds in the Gorge itself. The winds at Portland were relatively light both at ground level and at 10,000 feet above sea level and were no problem. The clouds and light rain at Portland were, in reality, no problem either. So as I have maintained before, the weather was not of any significance to the hijacked airliner as it passed through the Portland area. As far as I am concerned, the weather discussion is closed. Robert99 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites georger 197 #41868 August 2, 2013 RobertMBlevins***Last week enroute to Vancouver, I made a specific point of driving the entire length of the Columbia River Gorge from east to west during a beautiful, sunny, afternoon with no cloud cover whatsoever. The wind cooperated a bit by blowing from the west at about 30 miles per hour. While the wind at ground level (the entire route is at sea level for all practical purposes) was sufficient to create an occasional problem in driving, it was not indicative of any wind problems at higher altitudes. In fact, the terrain along the Gorge is not very high and the wind would only cause problems, if any at all, for light aircraft flying at low altitude within the Gorge itself. Consequently, I see no reason at all to believe that an airliner flying at 10,000 feet above sea level, and about 20 or 30 miles (minimum) upwind of the Gorge, would be adversely impacted by any winds in the Gorge itself. The winds at Portland were relatively light both at ground level and at 10,000 feet above sea level and were no problem. The clouds and light rain at Portland were, in reality, no problem either. So as I have maintained before, the weather was not of any significance to the hijacked airliner as it passed through the Portland area. As far as I am concerned, the weather discussion is closed. Robert99 We actually agree on this. Himmelsbach's claim of a big storm is simply not true. This is one day (Cooper hijacking) that if you were a local to the area (I was) you don't forget. Kinda like 'where were YOU when St. Helens blew its top'? I was a junior at Sumner High School on 11/24/1971, a small town about twenty miles south of Seattle. The weather was light, misty rain off and on all day. The annoying kind that soaks you to the skin if you stand around in it long enough. No big wind, just dreary as hell. I always watched the weather, even as a kid. My brother and I did all the farming and ran the vegetable stand after harvest. Got home from somewhere and watched This Guy on TV. He was pretty popular. (Yeah, I cried when he died in 2012, probably like everyone around here) Then...all the local news stations cut in for Cooper and suddenly everyone's in front of the tube watching the hijacking drama play out on television. BTW: That link up there leads to the JP Patches site, aka the beloved Chris Wedes who played him. Who was JP? Well, he had many official Patches Pals, and former Washington State governor Christine Gregoire was one of them, along with practically everyone else within antenna range of good old KIRO-TV channel 7. There's even a mention about DB Cooper on his History of JP Patches page. From the site: Quote'The Emmy winning J.P. Patches Show aired for 23 years on KIRO TV and at one time had an viewership of over 100,000. When it left the air in 1981, it was the longest running, locally produced children's program in the country...' 'Time to look into my Cartoon Hat...'Quote Bull . . . KIRO-TV channel 7 signed on on February 8, 1958. There are many older TV stations in the USA. For example WMT-TV at Cedar Rapids Iowa signed on with ClaraBell the Clown, a full hour kids program, On Sept 30, 1953. ABC’s Mickey Mouse Club debuted in 1955. WOI-TV signed on in 1950 with "Romper Room." KGTV in 1953 with Show n Tell. All of these stations were broadcasting children’s programing on radio clear back in the 1920’s! And of course there was Kukla, Fran and Ollie, created by Fran Allison, originally created for children but soon watched by more adults than children, that first aired on TV in a local venue in 1947. Fran Allison is an icon and a member of my family attended college with her. Buffalo Bill in 1950, etc... the list is endless all predating KIRO-TV in 1958 by a long way. Patches ran from 1958-81 ~23 yrs. Clara Bell ran from Sept 30, 1953-1980 ~27yrs. Mister Rogers' Neighborhood (1968– 2001) 33 yrs. Sesame Street began on November 10, 1969 and in some venues reruns are still running ~43 yrs? Children's programming is as old as radio and television itself. How come you failed to learn and graduate! ? Lack of exposure to the larger world, I guess. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites georger 197 #41869 August 2, 2013 RobertMBlevins You know, Georger... Pickin' on JP Patches ain't nice. And I took that claim from the Patches website, I didn't write it myself. You did see that little part about 'taken from the website,' right? You are really stooping to a new low here, no kidding. Don't you have anything better to do? You should be complaining to the webmaster at the Patches website. Yeah, you better go set them straight on the history of childrens' programming. In any event, your Patches Pal membership is probably being revoked right now. Quote You know, Blevinaide... Yes all of your shit comes from somebody else - and you publish it mindlessly! Now you post an equally mindless comback, of course. The Shame is on you! You aren't being fair to Patches, dear Fan! Just as you don't have any concern of over Facts and Truth! Patches was one of the longest running locally produced children's programs, you could have let it stand there, like 4 Clydesdales abreast, but you always have to purloin and elaborate things to fit your unbridled Narcicissm; there were other programs that began earlier and ran longer. It may interest you to know that one of the early Iowa Test of Basic Skills tests used in a large Washington State venue included several questions geared to children's exposure to Patches! Bet you didn't know that, or care. Guess who composed some of those orginal Patches questions? I'll leave it to you to research that - it was somebody's wife. You piggy backed Robert99 and it failed! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Robert99 37 #41870 August 2, 2013 ***You piggy backed Robert99 and it failed!/quote] Yeah, Blevins, get off my back. I didn't know Patches anyway. He came along well after I passed through that age group. Robert99 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skyjack71 0 #41871 August 3, 2013 I tried to get the site into the thread but I don't know how to do it. Paul Gievett - the man lives in Kansas and he is 88 yrs old - the father of the U-tube guy? Note the history of this man and he was born in 1924 and resides in Ks and he was still alive in Dec. of 2012. Georger you better get in your car and go see him. Would love to see a photo of him in 1971 and hope he is still alive. I think the guy telling the story might be his son. Paul Geivett :: Tom Strongman Hell, I don't know who to get the url. Just type that into your computer the writer of the page is Tom Strongman. NOTE the areas the man lived in. There is more, but I don't know how to transport them.Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites MarkBennett 5 #41872 August 3, 2013 RobertMBlevins You know, Georger... Pickin' on JP Patches ain't nice. And I took that claim from the Patches website, I didn't write it myself. You did see that little part about 'taken from the website,' right? You are really stooping to a new low here, no kidding. Don't you have anything better to do? You should be complaining to the webmaster at the Patches website. Yeah, you better go set them straight on the history of childrens' programming. In any event, your Patches Pal membership is probably being revoked right now. I think RobertMBlevins point on JP Patches is probably correct. When JP Patches went off the air in 1981 it was the longest running active childrens program. There were longer running runs, but they had already ended. That being said, RobertM, do you see why you draw such snarky responses? That is off topic. This is a DB Cooper forum. I know about your other jobs, who your business partners are, how you were lost in the woods for 30 days, what you think about capital punishment and your thoughts on the Boston bombing. That's true of you and only you. I don't know that about anyone else on here. Sometimes I think you're being bullied on here, but do you not see that you are bringing this on yourself? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mrshutter45 21 #41873 August 3, 2013 The Uncle Al Show was a children's television program originating in Cincinnati. The show was hosted by Cleveland native Al Lewis (1924–2009) (not to be confused with the actor who played Grandpa on The Munsters), and later was co-hosted by his wife, Wanda. The show enjoyed a remarkable 35-year run (1950–1985) on WCPO Television, making it one of the longest-running local children's shows in American TV history.[1] (Sesame Street holds the national record as it has now surpassed 40 consecutive years on the air.) Uncle Al holds the unofficial record for the longest-running regularly scheduled series with the same host for the show's entire run. Blue Peter is a British CBBC children's television programme. First aired in 1958, it has become the world's longest-running children's television programme. it's still running..."It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mrshutter45 21 #41874 August 3, 2013 RobertMBlevinsThe only reason I mentioned JP Patches in the first place is because it was the show I happened to be watching when the TV stations starting cutting in for Cooper. It was either that, or they cut in right after it was over. It's just one of the things I associate with the first time I heard about D.B. Cooper. The JP website has a line about Cooper, as well. I already said back there why I thought Georger does what he does, and it has nothing to do with a kids' program, but a certain author out of New York. I don't mind if people say this or that, but when they start doing 'he said, she said' (about you) there's always the chance I will go and check with the source. Some posts I didn't see the harm in, although I'll admit posting up complete stories was going a bit too far. Hell, I'm not even sure I care anymore about all that. This is going to be the third funeral for someone I knew well that I have to attend since March. My stepbrother, Brian, and now Norman. I just work and try to get through this year somehow. And WHY haven't the cops been able to finger a suspect for Cossey's killing yet? WTF is that about? Get busy. Geez. I better lighten up somehow. why are you telling me this? direction issue again..."It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mrshutter45 21 #41875 August 4, 2013 RobertMBlevins******The only reason I mentioned JP Patches in the first place is because it was the show I happened to be watching when the TV stations starting cutting in for Cooper. It was either that, or they cut in right after it was over. It's just one of the things I associate with the first time I heard about D.B. Cooper. The JP website has a line about Cooper, as well. I already said back there why I thought Georger does what he does, and it has nothing to do with a kids' program, but a certain author out of New York. I don't mind if people say this or that, but when they start doing 'he said, she said' (about you) there's always the chance I will go and check with the source. Some posts I didn't see the harm in, although I'll admit posting up complete stories was going a bit too far. Hell, I'm not even sure I care anymore about all that. This is going to be the third funeral for someone I knew well that I have to attend since March. My stepbrother, Brian, and now Norman. I just work and try to get through this year somehow. And WHY haven't the cops been able to finger a suspect for Cossey's killing yet? WTF is that about? Get busy. Geez. I better lighten up somehow. why are you telling me this? direction issue again... A boatload of posts here are misdirected in the header box. Then again, sometimes people get it right. Most don't even notice after a while. I'll try to remember, but I'm going to expect you to drop your same reminder on anyone else who forgets as well. nope, it's always you clicking the last post made to post your comment. the topic portion is wrong most of the time, but where it say Re:[mrshutter45] is the important part. it's very simple. if Joe writes a post to you the simple thing would be to click on Joe's post to reply/quote and add your comment, not Frank's post to respond. I'll expect you to follow up on this. Thank You"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' 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skyjack71 0 #41855 August 1, 2013 I let go of a lot of things. I told the agent things I have never told before. For the 1st time he did NOT cut me short....he wanted to know if I had put this in writing and had provided to the FBI (hell I thought he was FBI). I told him I WAS afraid in the past to provide certain things to the FBI and to others because I thought what I actually knew would turn people away. Every time I attemped to tell the past of Duane Weber (one he told me over the yrs in 3rd person) NO one cared & NO one believed me. It was when the Treasure Isle arrest was shown in this thread - something the FBI had NEVER told me. You guys know I connected a lot of thing & only one person on this thread has a clue what I mean. I was with this man for 17yrs and knew him for 6 months prior to that. The places we went & the people we met - they were just people. It would be over the last few yrs I found out who several of these individuals where & something about their past. I remember faces & places that are important. Faces out of the past - individuals I actually met. Strange, Weber with his backgound as a criminal would even know the individuals...who & how was such a strange group of men brought together? I refrained from mentioning the incidents and the people because I thought it would make me SOUND like someone looking for a story like Blevins and Marla and others over the yrs. I was also AFRAID to mention names - if I was wrong I could be sued and people would make fun of me and say I was contriving a story. I was more AFRAID of mentioning the people because there are those who are still alive that might not like it too much and I always asked myself - WHAT IF I WAS WRONG. WHAT IF I TELL SOMEONE I WAS WITH SO AND SO IN SUCH AND SUCH PLACE AND THEY CAN PROVE THEY WERE SOMEPLACE ELSE....WHAT IF I MISTAKENLY IDENTIFIED AN INDIVIDUAL BASED ON ONE PICTURE OR 2 IN THE MEDIA? After all who would believe me - the woman who claimed her husband was Dan Cooper - she is just a NUT CASE! Duane Weber was just a common goofy bad thief - he would never be able to pull something like a skyjacking off...much less be involved in other sinister things. Others would say he was too nice and there was NO way he ever committed a crime or was in prison. In the late 1950's a very wealthy man who loved this country tried to help the political figures he so admired & the country he called home. His way was by the back door. He formed a group of men - misfits to be agents in a secret group. (I am being careful of my words not to mention names or places). In the 60's this group had infiltrated where NO secret agent of operative could go - deep within the Mafia & the Unions and the criminal world. When Kennedy was killed all of you know he was WARNED there would be an attempt on his life - and this group was there to protect and do NO harm - the warning was supposedly delivered to him by someone close to him. It was said he may never have gotten the message. They went unarmed hoping to intervene in some way. They even thought or hoped there was nothing brewing - but, we all know it actually happend. I am still talking in circle because I am afraid of it. 2 men from N.Orleans had to leave to give depositions under alises by Anderson (my memory forgets his name now) - the name whose file were taken from his widow (all of them - and not just those from a specific incidence). I acutally met one of the Plumbers, but didn't know this until a few yrs ago. I actually overheard a strange conversation. The host was another one - an unlikely man a very tall man. He actually came out of the house to speak with me. I remember what he was wearing and what he looked like and I would see a picture of him later as he appeared that night and then on TV and then in my research.. A very handsome man - how the hell would a simple woman like me not remember a man like that. Then there was the baby face - the sweet young guy. He just told me that he and Duane went way back. This was 1982. These guys were having a reunion of sorts I guess....this guy was really young in 1982 he was about 34 maybe - how far could he and Duane go back? Then there was Meire - her first name eluded me tonight - her husband was in Canada and they hailed from Las Vegas - of course I have mentioned this in the thread and about the yacth in Ft. Lauderdale. Now that I know who she & her husband was - how the HELL did Duane have such intimate contacts with people like that. They had private discuss away from me on a very very large Yacht - Large staterooms and plenty of places for the cooks and servers - we are NOT talking about a toy boat. A meeting in ATLANTA for a company we did not work for. NO pictures, but I did get in a few shots of the women and the MAN, but NOT of the GUYS. Just one of them and now it turns out to be that he is a man who was supposed to be dead. The next day Duane tell me he has to deliver a package, but I didn't understand the transaction ( the man we delivered it to I have been told was a very dangerous man). Connected to Chicago Mafia. Big mistake was trying to contact people out of Duane's past. I could have become fish bait in the Atlantic if I had said the wrong things. I think one of the contacts initiated by the other person was to see how much I knew - about what Duane was involved in. One guy Duane worked for in CO connected to all of this told me he didn't remember Duane. Duane had La Vegas connections - the one legged guy was chauffeur for the Hughes! The one whose ashes are in the Gulf of Mexico & his head in cryogenics. Duane was in Jefferson with the man who murdered Martin Luther. He and his wife knew Ferrie. Duane was recruited in Canon 1962 or perhaps before he got out and this is where I believe PaperLeg, Tony and Tommy enter the pic. Never have figured this out. Some how between 1962 and 1965 a lots of time is spent in N.Orleans - maybe it was a easy place for a con man to hide. 1965 Duane goes to Kansas. how. They are on the move constantly. They go there with a job and with money - but they go thru it pretty quickly and Duane is back in prison, but he goes in as John Collins. All of you have read this story many times over. 1968 they go to CO until the FBI comes looking for them. They head back to N.Orleans - and leave when Camile comes in. Little income in 1969 & 1970 & 1971 (works all over the place) Columbia and Atlanta and in AL - back and forth) they sure lived pretty good....2 new cars in 1972 after a trip to N.Y. and Ft Lauderdale where Duane tried to buy a boat - a sea going boat (per the wife of the day). He had also told me about the boat. They had the money to pay cash! While in Columbia (1969/1970 I think) - he is training by swimming laps - & he disappears for wks at a time and always sends money home to the wife. They seem to take LOTS of trips to Kansas and FL. BRR - that is the key - BRR! Georger who do you know with the initials BRR. All of these writers who claim they know who Cooper is - perhaps I should lay the story I have on the line. Highly more probable than the stories circulating out there right now. Odd the new guy's story parallels the story I have hinted at for yrs - some of it right here in this thread. I decided to step away from the secret covert type of thing and move in a different direction, but then along comes 2 more pulling their story in the same directions and you guys take a big BITE out of the damn APPLE. Sure hope you don't get to SICK by eating too many green apples.Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BruceSmith 3 #41856 August 1, 2013 Hmm...I can see this a nice gesture on your part. Let me venture a couple of comments on that idea. First, the book is unedited. If you pass out too many copies free now, and later it is professionally edited, then the people who you allowed to have it will be comparing the final version to the unedited version when referring to it, or making quotes. If people in the Cooper Biz are going to make references to it, you always want them to have the best version possible. Second, if there are differences between Manuscript A and Edited Manuscript B, you will hear about that later in some form or another. There's an old saying in the publishing biz: Even an editor needs an editor. A manuscript is NOT a book. It is simply an unedited manuscript. My humble advice is to not release too many copies of the unedited version before you have the polished product ready. I have the greatest hopes for you, and I sincerely wish you luck getting that book published by a standard house. But they don't care how many people have the rough draft in hand. They only care about the finished product you submit. Even though I've edited more than fifty books now, I know better than to try and edit my own stuff. *** You are very welcome, Robert. I'm glad you enjoyed the gift. You are quite correct. Every book needs a good editor. That is why I am headed to New York for a spell, to find one, along with an agent and a publishing house that can give my work the support it needs to deliver my work to the greater public. Thanks for your encouragement. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georger 197 #41857 August 1, 2013 RobertMBlevinsAccording to Geoff Gray in his book, It must be damned convenient for you to have Gray's book to back your bias up (you have played that to the hilt since coming here!) and sit here speculating and peddling myth endlessly. Maybe Gray and You arent the final word? If it wasn't Gray it would be somebody or something else _ like Georger! Get a Life! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georger 197 #41858 August 1, 2013 BruceSmith Does anyone know if Tom Kaye's team, or anyone else, has found, on the money or elsewhere, any evidence that would point to contamination by anything that would be fed to cows or excreted by them? ***************************************** Bruce, I was hoping that you or someone else could tell me your findings in this matter. Robert99 Quote I know of no residues on the biils that come from cows or any other source. I've corresponded with Georger and Tom Kaye on the subject, and I don't know of any substantive findings along these lines. Galen also has a team looking into the subject, but again, I don't know any of his findings. I think the subject is an excellent one to explore. I would think that something would be on the bills that would tell us a bit about where it was for eight years prior to the Ingrams' hot dog roast in 1980. Welcome home. BTW, R99, would you like a free electronic copy of my book on Cooper? I have made this offer to all the DZ's readers as a way to soften up the resistence of the powers that be in the publishing world. My first thought was that pollutants had leaked down through the soil of the retention ditch into the beach sands and thus to the money site. Several people including the Fazios said their cattle had never used the pasture adjacent to the retention area. The reason for being concerned about this was 'things normally pick up traits of the environment they are found in, depending on the amount of time of exposure'. I thought nitrate and ammonia levels in the money might give some clue as to the amount of time the Ingram find had been in its present location. Then it turned out (if the reports are accurate) that the cattle had not been in that area for a number of years. Then several people surfaced to say tey didn't think retention ditch pollutants would convey to the Ingram site area. Then Tom's results didn't seem to show any high levels of ammonia or nitrate commensurate with cattle. The issue kind of fell by the wayside (so far as I know). Mr. Geivette is contending the 'silver in the money' is associated with silver in the Lewis River mud! I wasn't aware the Lewis River mud contains silver or gold (which would be particulate vs solution). Meantime we all know the socalled 'silver in the money' and the 'blackening of some bills' was due to the FBI fingerprinting of the money using a silver nitrate solution. Mr. Geivette has his fact wrong. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
testxyz 0 #41859 August 1, 2013 Quotenice 'pair a loafers I thought the Para Loafers would be funny! On another topic..... I was watching a Larry Carr video at Youtube and he was displaying some Cooper artifacts including the reserve chute which Cooper cut rope from. Car is clutching a bundle of rope/cord with one hand like one might do to cut it. "Did the FBI check the bundle of ropes/cords for DNA?" Larry Carr video below http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VLOgfkv4alk Picture of Larry Carr holding cut reserve chute rope attached. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mrshutter45 21 #41860 August 1, 2013 testxyzQuotenice 'pair a loafers I thought the Para Loafers would be funny! On another topic..... I was watching a Larry Carr video at Youtube and he was displaying some Cooper artifacts including the reserve chute which Cooper cut rope from. Car is clutching a bundle of rope/cord with one hand like one might do to cut it. "Did the FBI check the bundle of ropes/cords for DNA?" Larry Carr video below http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VLOgfkv4alk Picture of Larry Carr holding cut reserve chute rope attached. do you mean to check the rope for skin cells? I'm sure it's been handled by many and contaminated to zero value."It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
testxyz 0 #41861 August 1, 2013 Quotedo you mean to check the rope for skin cells? I'm sure it's been handled by many and contaminated to zero value. I was thinking since the cord is braided (SOME) of the skin cells from DB Cooper could still be lodged within the braids. If Cooper was tugging and stretching the cord in order to cut it, a better chance of skin cells being caught within the interwoven braids or within the elastic sheath. He would have been the only person to handle the cords in such a tugging and pulling manner. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
matthewcline 0 #41862 August 2, 2013 mrshutter45 ***Maybe he meant the French Para's Jump Boot? It is said to have a "springier" sole. But they too look very much like a boot, not dress shoes. Matt this is what I found...Men Vintage PARA SAUT France Paraboot Black Leather Jump Combat Lace Up Boots Size 9 (see photo) you would see him a mile away walking around in these.... this was his answer to KC being short.....Yep, those are them. Makes his story pretty laughable huh? MattAn Instructors first concern is student safety. So, start being safe, first!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ParrotheadVol 70 #41863 August 2, 2013 mrshutter45 I would say you would have to put a lot of false memory in the passenger accounts. they had no reason to pay attention to him. if I seen you walk into a store and noticed you passed the same guy several times. I wonder if you could tell me how old he was, weather he had a round jaw etc. nobody claimed seeing a wig or makeup on Cooper. these are hard facts to get around. Tina said she had to look up at him. very hard to dispute. she was calm enough to interact with him, take part in notes etc. everyone see's things differently. a friend could call you and say he ran out of gas and walked at least a mile and a half. you show up and take him to his car and realize it was only about a half a mile. is the drawing of Cooper close? who knows. it's funny how all of you put your suspect right beside him though. then claim descriptions could be incorrect on his hair, eyes, height etc. you have shown how bad witnesses can be on composites, but you have KC right beside the drawing. I've said it many times. this is much different than the average crime that last only seconds and descriptions are bad in these cases, but not all the time. this crime lasted hours. I'm sure it was an eternity for a few. they were able to look long and hard at him. this is also different than other unsolved cases like Alcatraz & Hoffa. it's a little harder to create a suspect since there backgrounds are known. only false sightings can spawn from them. I would tend to think the description will be better than the composite. Williams said it was off, Flo said the same, but I don't recall the height or weight being an issue. Good points. The description by Tina and Flo have to be weighted more than the passengers because they had to know that if they survived this, they would have to describe this guy to the authorities. The passengers didn't have a clue what was going on. No way that one of them gave a more accurate description."They were saying he was never gonna make it now, now that daylight had set in. But later that night, they were shining those lights back down on that mountain again." - Todd Snider Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georger 197 #41864 August 2, 2013 ParrotheadVol ***I would say you would have to put a lot of false memory in the passenger accounts. they had no reason to pay attention to him. if I seen you walk into a store and noticed you passed the same guy several times. I wonder if you could tell me how old he was, weather he had a round jaw etc. nobody claimed seeing a wig or makeup on Cooper. these are hard facts to get around. Tina said she had to look up at him. very hard to dispute. she was calm enough to interact with him, take part in notes etc. everyone see's things differently. a friend could call you and say he ran out of gas and walked at least a mile and a half. you show up and take him to his car and realize it was only about a half a mile. is the drawing of Cooper close? who knows. it's funny how all of you put your suspect right beside him though. then claim descriptions could be incorrect on his hair, eyes, height etc. you have shown how bad witnesses can be on composites, but you have KC right beside the drawing. I've said it many times. this is much different than the average crime that last only seconds and descriptions are bad in these cases, but not all the time. this crime lasted hours. I'm sure it was an eternity for a few. they were able to look long and hard at him. this is also different than other unsolved cases like Alcatraz & Hoffa. it's a little harder to create a suspect since there backgrounds are known. only false sightings can spawn from them. I would tend to think the description will be better than the composite. Williams said it was off, Flo said the same, but I don't recall the height or weight being an issue. Good points. The description by Tina and Flo have to be weighted more than the passengers because they had to know that if they survived this, they would have to describe this guy to the authorities. The passengers didn't have a clue what was going on. No way that one of them gave a more accurate description. Quote Unfortunately we probably will never know. While Gray's book highlights exceptions there is nothing of an official explanation (commentary) from the FBI side, especially by those who were there and involved. Ckret gave one account but the ciritics dont accept that (in the extreme). Faced with that situation the Kool Aide is ready to be served. Hopfully all concerned will die quietly! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyjack71 0 #41865 August 2, 2013 testxyz On another topic..... I was watching a Larry Carr video at Youtube and he was displaying some Cooper artifacts including the reserve chute which Cooper cut rope from. Car is clutching a bundle of rope/cord with one hand like one might do to cut it. "Did the FBI check the bundle of ropes/cords for DNA?" Larry Carr video below http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VLOgfkv4alk Picture of Larry Carr holding cut reserve chute rope attached. Jo Weber (that is me) bugged this thread and the FBI about that for a long time and as far as I know they never checked the cords for DNA. I also have a knife with a piece of cord in it - but again the FBI was not interested. Seems like when DNA became the thing - the FBI would have checked the cord ends, as one knows to make a clean cut you form a loop with the cord with one hand and take the knife and make the cut. NO one seems to dwell on the fact Tina thought Cooper was left handed. Weber was left handed. Duane did use the dark broader points for his books. Also I have many many samples of his writing, but nothing from Cooper to compare them with. I have samples of his handwriting from several stages in his life - but, nothing for the FBI to compare with. I still believe the piece of cord in that old knife Sluggo said was lint and was going to discard it is a piece of cord. I took tweezers and put it back in the knife in the place it was - even though Sluggo was going to discard it.Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyjack71 0 #41866 August 2, 2013 377 Quote do you mean to check the rope for skin cells? I'm sure it's been handled by many and contaminated to zero value. BUT, they should have checked the cord for DNA - all DNA when it became a remarkable marker. That way the DNA found even though it would have been multiple - could have been used at least for a way to limit suspects. Bet there is still DNA on that rope! BETCHA! and I bet one of those DNA's will match Duane's. IF they do NOT have Duane's DNA - I do have 2 very reliable items that will have his DNA on them....items I with held because of my attachment to them and one because of its value. Thank Goodness I did - they kept the DNA from 2003 until 2008 before it was returned. A valuable watch would probably have disappeared.Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Robert99 37 #41867 August 2, 2013 Last week enroute to Vancouver, I made a specific point of driving the entire length of the Columbia River Gorge from east to west during a beautiful, sunny, afternoon with no cloud cover whatsoever. The wind cooperated a bit by blowing from the west at about 30 miles per hour. While the wind at ground level (the entire route is at sea level for all practical purposes) was sufficient to create an occasional problem in driving, it was not indicative of any wind problems at higher altitudes. In fact, the terrain along the Gorge is not very high and the wind would only cause problems, if any at all, for light aircraft flying at low altitude within the Gorge itself. Consequently, I see no reason at all to believe that an airliner flying at 10,000 feet above sea level, and about 20 or 30 miles (minimum) upwind of the Gorge, would be adversely impacted by any winds in the Gorge itself. The winds at Portland were relatively light both at ground level and at 10,000 feet above sea level and were no problem. The clouds and light rain at Portland were, in reality, no problem either. So as I have maintained before, the weather was not of any significance to the hijacked airliner as it passed through the Portland area. As far as I am concerned, the weather discussion is closed. Robert99 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georger 197 #41868 August 2, 2013 RobertMBlevins***Last week enroute to Vancouver, I made a specific point of driving the entire length of the Columbia River Gorge from east to west during a beautiful, sunny, afternoon with no cloud cover whatsoever. The wind cooperated a bit by blowing from the west at about 30 miles per hour. While the wind at ground level (the entire route is at sea level for all practical purposes) was sufficient to create an occasional problem in driving, it was not indicative of any wind problems at higher altitudes. In fact, the terrain along the Gorge is not very high and the wind would only cause problems, if any at all, for light aircraft flying at low altitude within the Gorge itself. Consequently, I see no reason at all to believe that an airliner flying at 10,000 feet above sea level, and about 20 or 30 miles (minimum) upwind of the Gorge, would be adversely impacted by any winds in the Gorge itself. The winds at Portland were relatively light both at ground level and at 10,000 feet above sea level and were no problem. The clouds and light rain at Portland were, in reality, no problem either. So as I have maintained before, the weather was not of any significance to the hijacked airliner as it passed through the Portland area. As far as I am concerned, the weather discussion is closed. Robert99 We actually agree on this. Himmelsbach's claim of a big storm is simply not true. This is one day (Cooper hijacking) that if you were a local to the area (I was) you don't forget. Kinda like 'where were YOU when St. Helens blew its top'? I was a junior at Sumner High School on 11/24/1971, a small town about twenty miles south of Seattle. The weather was light, misty rain off and on all day. The annoying kind that soaks you to the skin if you stand around in it long enough. No big wind, just dreary as hell. I always watched the weather, even as a kid. My brother and I did all the farming and ran the vegetable stand after harvest. Got home from somewhere and watched This Guy on TV. He was pretty popular. (Yeah, I cried when he died in 2012, probably like everyone around here) Then...all the local news stations cut in for Cooper and suddenly everyone's in front of the tube watching the hijacking drama play out on television. BTW: That link up there leads to the JP Patches site, aka the beloved Chris Wedes who played him. Who was JP? Well, he had many official Patches Pals, and former Washington State governor Christine Gregoire was one of them, along with practically everyone else within antenna range of good old KIRO-TV channel 7. There's even a mention about DB Cooper on his History of JP Patches page. From the site: Quote'The Emmy winning J.P. Patches Show aired for 23 years on KIRO TV and at one time had an viewership of over 100,000. When it left the air in 1981, it was the longest running, locally produced children's program in the country...' 'Time to look into my Cartoon Hat...'Quote Bull . . . KIRO-TV channel 7 signed on on February 8, 1958. There are many older TV stations in the USA. For example WMT-TV at Cedar Rapids Iowa signed on with ClaraBell the Clown, a full hour kids program, On Sept 30, 1953. ABC’s Mickey Mouse Club debuted in 1955. WOI-TV signed on in 1950 with "Romper Room." KGTV in 1953 with Show n Tell. All of these stations were broadcasting children’s programing on radio clear back in the 1920’s! And of course there was Kukla, Fran and Ollie, created by Fran Allison, originally created for children but soon watched by more adults than children, that first aired on TV in a local venue in 1947. Fran Allison is an icon and a member of my family attended college with her. Buffalo Bill in 1950, etc... the list is endless all predating KIRO-TV in 1958 by a long way. Patches ran from 1958-81 ~23 yrs. Clara Bell ran from Sept 30, 1953-1980 ~27yrs. Mister Rogers' Neighborhood (1968– 2001) 33 yrs. Sesame Street began on November 10, 1969 and in some venues reruns are still running ~43 yrs? Children's programming is as old as radio and television itself. How come you failed to learn and graduate! ? Lack of exposure to the larger world, I guess. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites georger 197 #41869 August 2, 2013 RobertMBlevins You know, Georger... Pickin' on JP Patches ain't nice. And I took that claim from the Patches website, I didn't write it myself. You did see that little part about 'taken from the website,' right? You are really stooping to a new low here, no kidding. Don't you have anything better to do? You should be complaining to the webmaster at the Patches website. Yeah, you better go set them straight on the history of childrens' programming. In any event, your Patches Pal membership is probably being revoked right now. Quote You know, Blevinaide... Yes all of your shit comes from somebody else - and you publish it mindlessly! Now you post an equally mindless comback, of course. The Shame is on you! You aren't being fair to Patches, dear Fan! Just as you don't have any concern of over Facts and Truth! Patches was one of the longest running locally produced children's programs, you could have let it stand there, like 4 Clydesdales abreast, but you always have to purloin and elaborate things to fit your unbridled Narcicissm; there were other programs that began earlier and ran longer. It may interest you to know that one of the early Iowa Test of Basic Skills tests used in a large Washington State venue included several questions geared to children's exposure to Patches! Bet you didn't know that, or care. Guess who composed some of those orginal Patches questions? I'll leave it to you to research that - it was somebody's wife. You piggy backed Robert99 and it failed! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Robert99 37 #41870 August 2, 2013 ***You piggy backed Robert99 and it failed!/quote] Yeah, Blevins, get off my back. I didn't know Patches anyway. He came along well after I passed through that age group. Robert99 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skyjack71 0 #41871 August 3, 2013 I tried to get the site into the thread but I don't know how to do it. Paul Gievett - the man lives in Kansas and he is 88 yrs old - the father of the U-tube guy? Note the history of this man and he was born in 1924 and resides in Ks and he was still alive in Dec. of 2012. Georger you better get in your car and go see him. Would love to see a photo of him in 1971 and hope he is still alive. I think the guy telling the story might be his son. Paul Geivett :: Tom Strongman Hell, I don't know who to get the url. Just type that into your computer the writer of the page is Tom Strongman. NOTE the areas the man lived in. There is more, but I don't know how to transport them.Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites MarkBennett 5 #41872 August 3, 2013 RobertMBlevins You know, Georger... Pickin' on JP Patches ain't nice. And I took that claim from the Patches website, I didn't write it myself. You did see that little part about 'taken from the website,' right? You are really stooping to a new low here, no kidding. Don't you have anything better to do? You should be complaining to the webmaster at the Patches website. Yeah, you better go set them straight on the history of childrens' programming. In any event, your Patches Pal membership is probably being revoked right now. I think RobertMBlevins point on JP Patches is probably correct. When JP Patches went off the air in 1981 it was the longest running active childrens program. There were longer running runs, but they had already ended. That being said, RobertM, do you see why you draw such snarky responses? That is off topic. This is a DB Cooper forum. I know about your other jobs, who your business partners are, how you were lost in the woods for 30 days, what you think about capital punishment and your thoughts on the Boston bombing. That's true of you and only you. I don't know that about anyone else on here. Sometimes I think you're being bullied on here, but do you not see that you are bringing this on yourself? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mrshutter45 21 #41873 August 3, 2013 The Uncle Al Show was a children's television program originating in Cincinnati. The show was hosted by Cleveland native Al Lewis (1924–2009) (not to be confused with the actor who played Grandpa on The Munsters), and later was co-hosted by his wife, Wanda. The show enjoyed a remarkable 35-year run (1950–1985) on WCPO Television, making it one of the longest-running local children's shows in American TV history.[1] (Sesame Street holds the national record as it has now surpassed 40 consecutive years on the air.) Uncle Al holds the unofficial record for the longest-running regularly scheduled series with the same host for the show's entire run. Blue Peter is a British CBBC children's television programme. First aired in 1958, it has become the world's longest-running children's television programme. it's still running..."It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mrshutter45 21 #41874 August 3, 2013 RobertMBlevinsThe only reason I mentioned JP Patches in the first place is because it was the show I happened to be watching when the TV stations starting cutting in for Cooper. It was either that, or they cut in right after it was over. It's just one of the things I associate with the first time I heard about D.B. Cooper. The JP website has a line about Cooper, as well. I already said back there why I thought Georger does what he does, and it has nothing to do with a kids' program, but a certain author out of New York. I don't mind if people say this or that, but when they start doing 'he said, she said' (about you) there's always the chance I will go and check with the source. Some posts I didn't see the harm in, although I'll admit posting up complete stories was going a bit too far. Hell, I'm not even sure I care anymore about all that. This is going to be the third funeral for someone I knew well that I have to attend since March. My stepbrother, Brian, and now Norman. I just work and try to get through this year somehow. And WHY haven't the cops been able to finger a suspect for Cossey's killing yet? WTF is that about? Get busy. Geez. I better lighten up somehow. why are you telling me this? direction issue again..."It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mrshutter45 21 #41875 August 4, 2013 RobertMBlevins******The only reason I mentioned JP Patches in the first place is because it was the show I happened to be watching when the TV stations starting cutting in for Cooper. It was either that, or they cut in right after it was over. It's just one of the things I associate with the first time I heard about D.B. Cooper. The JP website has a line about Cooper, as well. I already said back there why I thought Georger does what he does, and it has nothing to do with a kids' program, but a certain author out of New York. I don't mind if people say this or that, but when they start doing 'he said, she said' (about you) there's always the chance I will go and check with the source. Some posts I didn't see the harm in, although I'll admit posting up complete stories was going a bit too far. Hell, I'm not even sure I care anymore about all that. This is going to be the third funeral for someone I knew well that I have to attend since March. My stepbrother, Brian, and now Norman. I just work and try to get through this year somehow. And WHY haven't the cops been able to finger a suspect for Cossey's killing yet? WTF is that about? Get busy. Geez. I better lighten up somehow. why are you telling me this? direction issue again... A boatload of posts here are misdirected in the header box. Then again, sometimes people get it right. Most don't even notice after a while. I'll try to remember, but I'm going to expect you to drop your same reminder on anyone else who forgets as well. nope, it's always you clicking the last post made to post your comment. the topic portion is wrong most of the time, but where it say Re:[mrshutter45] is the important part. it's very simple. if Joe writes a post to you the simple thing would be to click on Joe's post to reply/quote and add your comment, not Frank's post to respond. I'll expect you to follow up on this. Thank You"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1670 1671 1672 1673 1674 1675 1676 1677 1678 1679 1680 Next Page 1675 of 2540 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 47 47
georger 197 #41869 August 2, 2013 RobertMBlevins You know, Georger... Pickin' on JP Patches ain't nice. And I took that claim from the Patches website, I didn't write it myself. You did see that little part about 'taken from the website,' right? You are really stooping to a new low here, no kidding. Don't you have anything better to do? You should be complaining to the webmaster at the Patches website. Yeah, you better go set them straight on the history of childrens' programming. In any event, your Patches Pal membership is probably being revoked right now. Quote You know, Blevinaide... Yes all of your shit comes from somebody else - and you publish it mindlessly! Now you post an equally mindless comback, of course. The Shame is on you! You aren't being fair to Patches, dear Fan! Just as you don't have any concern of over Facts and Truth! Patches was one of the longest running locally produced children's programs, you could have let it stand there, like 4 Clydesdales abreast, but you always have to purloin and elaborate things to fit your unbridled Narcicissm; there were other programs that began earlier and ran longer. It may interest you to know that one of the early Iowa Test of Basic Skills tests used in a large Washington State venue included several questions geared to children's exposure to Patches! Bet you didn't know that, or care. Guess who composed some of those orginal Patches questions? I'll leave it to you to research that - it was somebody's wife. You piggy backed Robert99 and it failed! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Robert99 37 #41870 August 2, 2013 ***You piggy backed Robert99 and it failed!/quote] Yeah, Blevins, get off my back. I didn't know Patches anyway. He came along well after I passed through that age group. Robert99 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyjack71 0 #41871 August 3, 2013 I tried to get the site into the thread but I don't know how to do it. Paul Gievett - the man lives in Kansas and he is 88 yrs old - the father of the U-tube guy? Note the history of this man and he was born in 1924 and resides in Ks and he was still alive in Dec. of 2012. Georger you better get in your car and go see him. Would love to see a photo of him in 1971 and hope he is still alive. I think the guy telling the story might be his son. Paul Geivett :: Tom Strongman Hell, I don't know who to get the url. Just type that into your computer the writer of the page is Tom Strongman. NOTE the areas the man lived in. There is more, but I don't know how to transport them.Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MarkBennett 5 #41872 August 3, 2013 RobertMBlevins You know, Georger... Pickin' on JP Patches ain't nice. And I took that claim from the Patches website, I didn't write it myself. You did see that little part about 'taken from the website,' right? You are really stooping to a new low here, no kidding. Don't you have anything better to do? You should be complaining to the webmaster at the Patches website. Yeah, you better go set them straight on the history of childrens' programming. In any event, your Patches Pal membership is probably being revoked right now. I think RobertMBlevins point on JP Patches is probably correct. When JP Patches went off the air in 1981 it was the longest running active childrens program. There were longer running runs, but they had already ended. That being said, RobertM, do you see why you draw such snarky responses? That is off topic. This is a DB Cooper forum. I know about your other jobs, who your business partners are, how you were lost in the woods for 30 days, what you think about capital punishment and your thoughts on the Boston bombing. That's true of you and only you. I don't know that about anyone else on here. Sometimes I think you're being bullied on here, but do you not see that you are bringing this on yourself? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mrshutter45 21 #41873 August 3, 2013 The Uncle Al Show was a children's television program originating in Cincinnati. The show was hosted by Cleveland native Al Lewis (1924–2009) (not to be confused with the actor who played Grandpa on The Munsters), and later was co-hosted by his wife, Wanda. The show enjoyed a remarkable 35-year run (1950–1985) on WCPO Television, making it one of the longest-running local children's shows in American TV history.[1] (Sesame Street holds the national record as it has now surpassed 40 consecutive years on the air.) Uncle Al holds the unofficial record for the longest-running regularly scheduled series with the same host for the show's entire run. Blue Peter is a British CBBC children's television programme. First aired in 1958, it has become the world's longest-running children's television programme. it's still running..."It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mrshutter45 21 #41874 August 3, 2013 RobertMBlevinsThe only reason I mentioned JP Patches in the first place is because it was the show I happened to be watching when the TV stations starting cutting in for Cooper. It was either that, or they cut in right after it was over. It's just one of the things I associate with the first time I heard about D.B. Cooper. The JP website has a line about Cooper, as well. I already said back there why I thought Georger does what he does, and it has nothing to do with a kids' program, but a certain author out of New York. I don't mind if people say this or that, but when they start doing 'he said, she said' (about you) there's always the chance I will go and check with the source. Some posts I didn't see the harm in, although I'll admit posting up complete stories was going a bit too far. Hell, I'm not even sure I care anymore about all that. This is going to be the third funeral for someone I knew well that I have to attend since March. My stepbrother, Brian, and now Norman. I just work and try to get through this year somehow. And WHY haven't the cops been able to finger a suspect for Cossey's killing yet? WTF is that about? Get busy. Geez. I better lighten up somehow. why are you telling me this? direction issue again..."It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mrshutter45 21 #41875 August 4, 2013 RobertMBlevins******The only reason I mentioned JP Patches in the first place is because it was the show I happened to be watching when the TV stations starting cutting in for Cooper. It was either that, or they cut in right after it was over. It's just one of the things I associate with the first time I heard about D.B. Cooper. The JP website has a line about Cooper, as well. I already said back there why I thought Georger does what he does, and it has nothing to do with a kids' program, but a certain author out of New York. I don't mind if people say this or that, but when they start doing 'he said, she said' (about you) there's always the chance I will go and check with the source. Some posts I didn't see the harm in, although I'll admit posting up complete stories was going a bit too far. Hell, I'm not even sure I care anymore about all that. This is going to be the third funeral for someone I knew well that I have to attend since March. My stepbrother, Brian, and now Norman. I just work and try to get through this year somehow. And WHY haven't the cops been able to finger a suspect for Cossey's killing yet? WTF is that about? Get busy. Geez. I better lighten up somehow. why are you telling me this? direction issue again... A boatload of posts here are misdirected in the header box. Then again, sometimes people get it right. Most don't even notice after a while. I'll try to remember, but I'm going to expect you to drop your same reminder on anyone else who forgets as well. nope, it's always you clicking the last post made to post your comment. the topic portion is wrong most of the time, but where it say Re:[mrshutter45] is the important part. it's very simple. if Joe writes a post to you the simple thing would be to click on Joe's post to reply/quote and add your comment, not Frank's post to respond. I'll expect you to follow up on this. Thank You"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
