georger 197 #41751 July 28, 2013 You have to remember that it wasn't Lyle who actually checked out KC. It was Porteous and the gang and yours truly. Not Lyle. He only has a very small part in the book.Quote You omit Gray and the F.B.I. ! The BIG DEAL about Sluggo's interview is: #1. He's a longtime researcher in the Cooper matter who has done tons of high quality research, interviewed more people than you probably know, ... and has been a 'fundamental force' in the Cooper comminity for generations! He raises for very import central questions, which are important and central ... to this very hour. That is no exaggeration. He expresses his concrete opinions or conclusions which are important for any other Cooper researcher/reader to know. THAT is the BIG DEAL. And so, here it is the Interview this Porteous again: Quote Sluggo_Monster Registered: Jan 24, 2008 Posts: 912 Oct 21, 2010, 3:08 AM Post #18859 of 45318 (6252 views) Interview with W. Wayne Walker by Mr. Porteous Mr Walker, a resident of Ashford, Alabama, runs the most comprehensive research site on the D.B. Cooper case, and has been investigating the hijacking of Flight 305 since 1975. Porteous: I guess I’ll start with a very basic question. One of the biggest debates going on Cooper is whether or not he survived the jump. Do you believe he did? Walker: I’m not a skydiver, so, I have to rely on what I hear from those who are. The chute he used was slightly modified and would have been what the skydivers call “a hard pull.” The chute he selected was a very reliable emergency-type chute. Therefore, the skydivers believe if he pulled… he survived (the terrain wasn’t as big a factor as generally believed). Also, Ms. Mucklow testified that he donned the chute like he had done it many times. Those two issues taken together make me believe that he probably survived. He may have been injured, but not seriously. Porteous: Stewardess Tina Mucklow testified that Cooper tried to hand her three packets of the ransom money, and that she refused it. Does anyone know whether he secured the money back into the money bag, or did he put it somewhere else after she refused it? Walker: First, I’m not really sure it was offered to Mucklow alone. It may have been offered to all three cabin attendants or to Mucklow and Schaffner together (Alice Hancock probably was already off the plane). The bag was open (it had no zipper or other method of closure) and he had not yet sealed it with parachute cord or attached to his body. Therefore, I can’t imagine why he would put the money anywhere other than back into the bag it came from. Porteous: Along that same line, do you think these packets could be the same three packets that were found on the river in Vancouver, Washington in 1980? Walker: I don’t see any evidence to support that theory. To make that assumption would be pure (unsupported) speculation. Porteous: Is there any evidence to suggest that Cooper actually directed a flight plan to the crew beyond ‘we’re going to Mexico City’ and then later just agreeing to try for Reno? Walker: Well, here you have hit a “Sluggo Hot Button!” Early in the investigation there was a belief that Cooper was very knowledgeable about aviation. Then later, it was assumed (by the FBI) that he just had some tangential knowledge. I believe he was VERY familiar with aviation (generally) and the B-727-51 (specifically). I also believe he had studied the navigation charts (FAA Sectional Charts) and chose V-23 as the route he wanted the pilots to use. He did not specify Victor-23, but the things he did specify, made Victor-23 the only viable route southeast. This is a very complex issue, and I can go on for hours discussing it but, for simplicity sake, the best example of what I mean is that he ordered “gear down.” Gear down doesn’t make the plane fly slower, make the door (stairs) open wider, or make the jump safer. The only thing it does is increase fuel burn rate, hence eliminating other routes south. Porteous: The F.B.I. has backed off from their initial theory that Cooper was either a paratrooper, or at least familiar with skydiving. What do you think? Walker: I believe he had some familiarity with skydiving. Most likely it was military experience as a pilot, crew member, or loadmaster (kicker) in a military situation. Remember, when I say “military,” I’m not limiting it to the US Military, he was most likely Canadian. Porteous: It’s been listed in most reports that Cooper said: ‘Looks like Tacoma (Washington) down there.’ At what exact point in the flight did he supposedly say this? Walker: This is the most “over-quoted” and “under-meaningful” testimony in the NORJAK case. This event occurred prior to landing at Seattle. The plane was orbiting (in a holding pattern) out over the Puget Sound (from 15 to 20 nautical miles out). They were at 6,000 ft. MSL, on the 307-degree radial of the SEA VORTAC, out to the LOFAL intersection. The weather was scattered clouds at about 5,000 ft. MSL. They were flying a racetrack-like pattern. On each orbit, Cooper would have seen lights out the starboard (right-hand) windows for about two-minutes (as they turned at the south-most end of the loop). Anyone who knew that they were holding over the Puget Sound would know those lights were the Seattle-Tacoma area. In fact, what he probably saw was Seattle, not Tacoma. Porteous: There have been some minor disputes about how many parachutes were left behind on Flight 305 by Cooper, and which ones he took with him. What do you know about this? Walker: I’m not aware of a dispute. Sources in the FBI have clearly identified that the two chutes remaining on the plane were the “Sport Chute” and the workable reserve (opened and with some shock-cord removed). The two parachutes that were missing were the NB-8 (military-style emergency) and the dummy (training) reserve. Remember, there were no D-Rings on the NB-8 to attach a reserve. Porteous: Robert Blevins and I were able to verify that Christiansen made two major cash purchases between the date of the hijacking and seven months later in July of 1972. One was a $5,000 cash loan to the sister of a man Christiansen had known and worked with for years. The other was a cash purchase of a house and lot in Bonney Lake, Washington that totaled $17,500. Just prior to the hijacking, Christiansen was taking home about $512 a month, had little in the bank, and lived in a very cheap apartment. Do these things, in your opinion, make him a stronger suspect? Walker: No! Every flim-flam man, drug dealer, prostitute, thief, spy, and/or burgler makes purchases that their legal income doesn’t support. If there is other evidence that Christiansen was Cooper, then these purchases (beyond his apparent income) would corroborate the assumptions. But, as a stand-alone issue, they don’t mean much. Porteous: Any other thoughts on the case you’d like to add? Walker: Well, just a cautionary word to all authors, journalist, and researchers. This case has accumulated a mythology that is broader and stronger than the reality. Most of the published “facts” are born from this mythology (and therefore, aren’t facts at all). Initially the myths were propagated by law enforcement’s (LE) lack of candor when releasing public information. Then at the same time LE started “opening-up” to the public, the internet brought its “Cut-and-paste without any critical thinking” culture into the investigation. Finding irrefutable sources almost 40-years after the event is nearly impossible. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skyjack71 0 #41752 July 28, 2013 Quote EDIT: You refer to the alleged radio (Simmons) interview with Lyle Christiansen. Blevins U need to have YOUR head examined. I for ONE will ATTEST that Lyle told me - the very SAME thing he told the man at the RADIO program. Of Course, MY word is nothing, but I have actually spoke with Lyle about this radio program twice. Once on my own and the other time was the LAST time you got on this subject. Since I had engaged in productive communications with Lyle in the past, I TOOK it upon myself to re-establish the contact with ONLY the RADIO statement being MY TARGET. I worked with other individuals in doing this - and then reported the results to the thread. So Blevins I have to agree with Georger on this point. Perhaps I have an obsessive thing going on about Duane - but, I actually knew and lived with this man and he did confessed to me. I had a direct involvement and actually HELD evidence in my hands (NONE of it MAKES Weber Cooper)....at least I have a BASIS for my obsession to prove Weber was Cooper....and I may have done it already! YOU have nothing and PLEASE do not recite your POINTS and YOUR investigation.... Why am I fed up with your posts? Well, your child like defenses about interviews actually publicized and dictated and admitted to by Lyle make YOU one SICK PUPPY! For you to sit there and continue argue about what LYLE said in a public interview and use up valuable space - means only one thing. YOU are into this to SELL the book and to make YOURSELF known. Well, you can put the manuscript in a fireplace along with any other manuscript you write. ALL you do with you continued participation defending your book is only going to DESTROY any future you have as a writer. I do not see how you have TIME to write as much as you post to this thread. If I am Crazy, Delusional and Off My Rockery - well, some how you have surpassed me! YOU need to take a GOOD look at yourself in the MIRROR! I do and I see an old woman who has used up 18yrs of her life to chase the past of the man who confessed to her he was DAN COOPER. You do not even have a confession to base your book on.Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites BruceSmith 3 #41753 July 28, 2013 Greetings Everyone, Meyer Louie asked me to post his report of his recent exploration of Tina Bar with Robert99. The entire report is posted on the Mountain News - WA, and I will be posting it here as well. It has a selection of Meyer's photos, too, which has been a difficulty on my part to get them posted here at the DZ. I will try, however. In the meantime, here's the link: http://themountainnewswa.net/2013/07/28/db-cooper-local-sleuth-re-investigates-money-find-location/#more-6670 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites BruceSmith 3 #41754 July 28, 2013 BruceSmithGreetings Everyone, Meyer Louie asked me to post his report of his recent exploration of Tina Bar with Robert99. The entire report is posted on the Mountain News - WA, and I will be posting it here as well. It has a selection of Meyer's photos, too, which has been a difficulty on my part to get them posted here at the DZ. I will try, however. In the meantime, here's the link: http://themountainnewswa.net/2013/07/28/db-cooper-local-sleuth-re-investigates-money-find-location/#more-6670 Here's Meyer's report: Exploring Tina Bar with Robert99 on Friday, July 26, 2013 I had the pleasure of meeting a great guy, Robert99, and spending the day exploring Tina-Bar with him. We spent the day thoroughly exploring the area in the immediate vicinity of the Ingram money find. Robert99 brought the township/range coordinates of the money find location, and -- after figuring out how to use his brand new, hand-held GPS locator -- we eventually found ourselves standing on the exact spot of the Brian Ingram money find – using the GPS coordinates as our guide. After taking a lunch break at a McDonald’s in downtown Vancouver, we came back to Tina-Bar and used Robert99’s metal detectors. We ended up scanning and searching pretty much every square foot of a 25-yard by 50-yard section just above the money find. It was hot, around 100 degrees where we were (Robert99 confirmed the temperature with his equipment). We both got real sunburned, and I came down with a little heat exhaustion - but some shade, lots of water, and a jump into the Columbia River fixed me right up. I’m getting a little ahead of myself. The day played itself out in stages. I emailed Robert99 from my home in the South Puget Sound area at 5:30 am, informing him that I was on my way to meet him at 8:00 am, in Vancouver, WA, at the Best Western hotel – where he was staying. I got there a few minutes late. Robert99 had tons of maps; he took one out and showed me where we were headed for the day. We took off. Our first stop was Vancouver Lake Park. We found a picnic table, where Robert99 took out more maps. Then he took out his NB6 parachute pack and harness (actual canopy not included). He thoroughly explained every part of the apparatus – and how it all worked together. Amazing information! We looked at several more maps, and I saw a 2-inch binder of just some of Robert99’s research. Amazing, again. Then we headed to Tina-Bar. What a great area – a couple of times we were fortunate enough to see Mt. Hood and Mt. St. Helens from the same spot. I followed Robert99’s nice, blue sedan in my pickup. We drove just past the Fazio Brothers sand operation and into the Fazio driveway. We stopped at the main office and got permission from Mr. Fazio (I didn’t get which brother he was – I did the asking, I must’ve been a little nervous) to spend several hours at their beachfront there, Tina-Bar. Mr. Fazio was very cordial and gracious; he asked that we not drive down onto the river road – where the fishermen were, members only. We spent a long time just walking around -- looking and exploring. I took several pictures - all day, in fact (several are attached). We met a gentleman there by the name of Jon Livermore (he gave me permission to use his name here). He said he had been fishing Tina-Bar for 56 years – that he had pretty much grown up there – give or take a few years. He was very helpful and cordial, and he answered every question we asked -- and much more. He talked about the cabin that was once there. It would be several feet off shore, well into the River by now. The cabin was removed before shore and bank erosion would have eventually swept it away. Jon said in the summer of 1978, he was able to drive his car here (he pointed out to the Columbia River – in the same direction where the cabin used to be). Jon talked about the sand and clay. He said the piles of sand all around us came from river dredging; you could see the original clay only close to shore. He said it was not unusual for the beach to lose two feet to five feet of sand in high-river runoff, and it would be even more in a flood event. Jon said the beach at Tina-Bar in 1980 was several feet higher (as in way over my head higher) than it is now. Several feet of shore have eroded away – it was painfully obvious, in light of Jon’s explanation. He said it’s only going to get worse. Jon also pointed to the shore sand and said to notice the slope, the steepness, of the sand itself, and also to notice the little “cliffs” at the top edge of the sand. “That’s erosion…where the sand keeps dropping off.” he said. “We’ve lost trees – the trees and shrubs [close to shore] will go too.” Beyond the top edge of the little sand cliffs was a ridge, an embankment of piled high dirt that ran parallel to shore. Beyond the ridge of dirt was a slight land depression – a little draw, if you will - that ran parallel to the embankment. We asked about that. Jon said that was a filtration system to keep cow feces out of the river. Robert99 asked if the Columbia River could have ever breached the embankment and gotten into the filtration land area. Jon said “No.” We asked Jon to indicate the highest water level he’d ever seen the Columbia River reach. He pointed to a log on the hillside, below the top of the embankment -- above and to the right of the money find, toward the Fazio’s. My estimate – about 10-15 feet above current river level. Robert99 will, no doubt, have a better estimate – gauging water levels isn’t exactly my area of expertise. Jon came by several times thereafter to offer his assistance. What a nice guy! Robert99 said we should check out a briar patch at the top of the embankment – just below the little sand “cliffs.” We hadn’t broken out the metal detectors yet. So what I do? I put on my winter coat, some long pants, and my boots (it was 100 degrees out, remember). I take just a hammer and a pocket knife and I cut my way through the briar patch – thorns and all – checking every square inch as I inched my way toward the center of the briar patch. I’m thinking that’s where the heat exhaustion and all those scratch marks came from, ya think? We did more exploring, more talking to Jon. Robert99 used his GPS device to pinpoint the exact location of the money find, using the township and range coordinates that Robert99 brought with him. We marked the spot, exactly. Around that time, Robert99 found some canvas webbing in the sand, not too far from the money find location. It looks like an extra wide belt (see attached photo). It has some lettering on it that said ‘AAR 77.’ Also, there is something else; it says ‘7,700 LBS.’ Can anybody help identify what this webbing is? Is it a parachute harness? Is it a cargo strap? What is it? We aren’t sure. Your assistance is needed – and appreciated. Thanks. Then we took a lunch break. We drove all the way past downtown Vancouver to a McDonalds -- and ate big. We were hungry and thirsty and definitely feeling the effects of the high temperature that day. When we returned to Tina-Bar, we got out the metal detectors and commenced to search every square foot of the embankment and filtration land areas – 25 yards by 50 yards I’d say. Thanks to Robert99 for the great gear, sophisticated instrumentation, and abundant information -- from all his years of quality research. We ended the day at Tina-Bar, late afternoon, then we drove back to the Best Western. Robert99 bought us a soda (and lunch too, by the way, thanks again). We sat in the air-conditioned Best Western lobby and reviewed our day at Tina-Bar. We didn’t find what we were hoping to find (a parachute, more money, lots of pretty dancing girls), but we learned a lot by being there. We explored, we asked questions, and we carefully examined and studied the immediate area surrounding the exact money find location at Tina-Bar. If there are any errors or omissions in my report, Robert99, please feel free to correct and alter as you see fit. I thank Robert99 for sharing his wisdom, knowledge, expertise, research, and hospitality. He traveled a great distance to be here today. And thanks for the invitation, Robert99 -- it’s a day I will never forget. Meyer Louie July 27, 2013 (Pix to come - BAS, or visit the MN.) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites matthewcline 0 #41755 July 28, 2013 AAR 77 is a Standard set forth by the Association of American Railroads. The standards the AAR Set are used in complying with Load Securing methods for Cargo Transport. The "77" portion refers to either; the year the Strap was either inspected or re-inspected for use, or the year group standard it was certified under. It matters not really as far as Cooper lore, as the markings alone would rule it out as equipment from the highjacking. MattAn Instructors first concern is student safety. So, start being safe, first!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skyjack71 0 #41756 July 29, 2013 Meyer Louis stated about the man who assisted them: QuoteHe was very helpful and cordial, and he answered every question we asked -- and much more. He talked about the cabin that was once there. It would be several feet off shore, well into the River by now. The cabin was removed before shore and bank erosion would have eventually swept it away. Jon said in the summer of 1978, he was able to drive his car here (he pointed out to the Columbia River – in the same direction where the cabin used to be). I need to KNOW more about this CABIN and exactly where it was located in 1979. Remember I have insisted for yrs that behind the Original house and then behind the fence and tree line was a SHED. I could see only part of it - so it could have been called a cabin in the days. I want to know the location of that CABIN or SHED in relation to the position of the house, fence and the money find. Remember that Duane disappeared from my site just behind the house and that I have stated there was a shed there in 1979. In 2001 when I was there with Himmelsbach and one of the Fazio's I asked about the shed and was told there was one they stored equipment in, but could never get anyone to show me pictures of this shed or proof or disproof it was there. Nothing was ever written about this, but what I thought I saw....the shed thing was part of why I thought perhaps this was not the right place in 2001 that I saw in 1979 - but everything else was right. The house, the gate and the view across the river and the equipment on our left. The trees and the fence. Note there was in 1979 a fence below the Fazio house at the tree line. There was fence at the gate which was North & East of the house. There was a parking area there with some very large trees in 1979 and 2001. The house was closer to the water than the GATE and the Trees with a parking area. Duane left me in the lot in the car and told me to stay there. I hope Meire and Robert got the man's contact numbe and asked him if he had pictures of the cabin or shed and of the house from 1979 - very very important to me. A picture made from the trees and the parking area. North and East of the house. I have to know what I was able to see from there in 1979. I need to know if it matches my memory. I have never found anyone who could or would produce pictures from 1979 or before.Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skyjack71 0 #41757 July 29, 2013 RobertMBlevinsHmm. Well, let's suppose that one time (forget his testimony for the TV show) Lyle said somewhere he didn't think his brother was Cooper? My answer to that is: How the heck would he know? He doesn't, and neither do I. I can tell you this much. Looking over his emails since late 2009, his KNOWN (not alleged) public statements say something completely different that what you or Georger say. He's provided a great deal of pictures, documents, and personal letters, as well as signing away any rights to his brother's story or those items...in an effort to get to the truth on Kenny. Lyle's verbal words to me and to other as to his motivation are suspect! He thought it would make a good MOVIE! That is the action of someone interested something. Those were the thoughts of Lyle after watching a documentary on Cooper and why he sent a letter to someone (I don't remember who) regarding that he thought his brother could be Cooper. Well everyone knows how this went. The investigator let it go and you took that bit of information and rolled with it. Yea, Lyle is an old man and he and his wife thought it could be a good story - Lyle did NOT know or have any knowledge of KC being Cooper. It was an idea born from a documentary on the TV.Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites georger 197 #41758 July 29, 2013 Exploring Tina Bar with Robert99 on Friday, July 26, 2013 Meyer Louie July 27, 2013 (Pix to come - BAS, or visit the MN.)Quote Very nice Meyer, R99, and Bruce. Is there a photo of the exact location of the money find mentioned in the article ? Where you drove a stake? Would love to see a photos of that ... then photos from that money find location in all directions ? Thanks for a very nice article - wish I had been there! What is the canvas strap from? Lastly: Does R99 have an estimate of the amount of beach loss between Dec 1971 - 1974 dredging and between 1974 dredging and money find in Feb 1980? Did you ask the fisherman? Am I to understand everything above the money find is pretty much the same as it was in 1980 ... 1971 ... according to the fisherman ? We need photos of that area and photos from that area looking back toward the sand operation and Catapillar Island ... ? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites georger 197 #41759 July 29, 2013 RobertMBlevins Really, Georger. Your point is moot beyond belief. When Blast came out, Sluggo would undoubtably have asked his interview be removed from it. He was completely against the book, which is his perfect right. Blast does polarize people sometimes. Some think we hit the nail on the head, others think we didn't. What can you do about that? Nothing. So what do you want from me exactly? Should I spend the money to put it back in...and then have Sluggo contact me to remove it? Or is Sluggo telling you now he's seen the KC report, and the Revised Edition and wants his interview now included because he thinks KC is now a legit suspect? What's your point? If he's saying that now, he should contact me and maybe I will add him to the book if he wishes. But he will have to sign a release if he wants this, because I'm not spending the money to do it if he's going to turn around and say 'take it out' a week later, LOL. I don't have a problem with you posting it up. Maybe it should be seen, since it was never going into the book and would have been taken out later anyway. Or whatever. Your point keeps escaping me... Quote Well Bobert, I dont care what you want or think. As I keep saying (but you're not listening!) ... the Sluggo Interview is important and stands on it's own. Sluggo's interview with Porteous is NOT ABOUT YOU! So you can hang out a flag, make tortillas, smoke a joint, hoist iron lawn chairs over your head, or milk a goat ... so far as I care. NEW post on Sluggo Interview coming up whether you like/want it or not! This thread is about RobertMBlevins ... ooops ... I mean DB Cooper! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites georger 197 #41760 July 29, 2013 RobertMBlevins Really, Georger. Your point is moot beyond belief. Quote The point is: Sluggo says, "3 bundles of money" is myth, and not fact. 3 bundles of money never existed! I will explain why this matters. (Blevins and to some extent Tom Kaye have been using the myth of 3 bundles of money for years ignoring and dissmissing all pleas to STOP! 3 bundles of money is Blevinstown Kool Aid gospel.) Porteous and Sluggo say: Porteous: Stewardess Tina Mucklow testified that Cooper tried to hand her three packets of the ransom money, and that she refused it. Does anyone know whether he secured the money back into the money bag, or did he put it somewhere else after she refused it? Walker: First, I’m not really sure it was offered to Mucklow alone. It may have been offered to all three cabin attendants or to Mucklow and Schaffner together (Alice Hancock probably was already off the plane). The bag was open (it had no zipper or other method of closure) and he had not yet sealed it with parachute cord or attached to his body. Therefore, I can’t imagine why he would put the money anywhere other than back into the bag it came from. Porteous: Along that same line, do you think these packets could be the same three packets that were found on the river in Vancouver, Washington in 1980? Walker: I don’t see any evidence to support that theory. To make that assumption would be pure (unsupported) speculation. So, fact or MYTH ? 1: Tina Mucklow testified that Cooper tried to hand her three packets of the ransom money, [Did Tina specify three packets? Where is this socalled tesimony documented? All Tina said was that he Cooper was fondling the money in the bag and brought up "a group of money and took some" and offered it to her and Schaffner. Schaffner declined and Tina replied: 'We arent allowed to take tips'! Nowhere in this is three bundles or packets of money even mentioned!] 2: Cooper put the three bundles/packets into his coat pocket. [There is no testimony which says or even implies that - there is no testimony about this at all!] 3: The 3 bundles offered Tina is the same 3 bundles found at Tina Bar. [There is no tesimony 3 bundles were offered Tina. There is no evidence only 3 bundles were in situ at Tina Bar. There is multiple evidence more than 3 bundles were in situ at Tina Bar and after testing Ingram's portion alone turned out to be more than originally thought or alloted. Everyone including Ingram believes money was on top of what Ingram found and had been eroded and swept away prior to Ingram making his find. And the testimony of every single witness supports that conclusion, to one extent or another!] Why is this important? Because MYTHS lead to one set of conclusions. FACTS lead to another set of conclusions. The facts don't support the Kaye-Blevins conclusion that the Ingram find represents 3 bundles of money supposedly offered Tina then stuffed into Cooper's pocket, which he lost somewhere on the way down or he buried at Tina Bar! The facts support an alluvial-erosion story: the idea that more than $5800 represents the actual amount in the Ingram find, something more than 3 bundles were in residence on Tina Bar prior to the Ingram find, and given the very active nature of Tina Bar (erosion and flood events etc) that much more than $5800 was originally on Tina Bar, of which the Ingram and other finds represent survivors ... not the original deposit(s). The facts support a multiple deposit and erosion sequence which supports natural forces being responsible for the total deposit(s) in the first place. That is the POINT!, Mr. Blevins. FACTS vs MYTHS. Truth vs Myth. Are we here to research DB Cooper or worship your quick comeback personality as MYTH? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites georger 197 #41761 July 29, 2013 Geez...who got up on the wrong side of the bed? Quote Beds has nothing to do with your use of MYTHS over FACTS. You and Porteous HAD Sluggo's interview and instead of sharing it with anyone, chose to concel it, until Sluggo published it himself... then you surfaced with excuses/reasons. You always resort to something "personal". Geestman is a liar you say - and explode over! You even include "That Woman - the harlot of Begonia"! Your whole PERSONAL MYTH FACTORY is down the toilet. Three years wasted for your benefit. That is the true story of your Cooperland ... write it up. Please FLUSH! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites georger 197 #41762 July 29, 2013 RobertMBlevins You're going to have to explain to me how MORE than one bundle of the ransom ended up in the same spot Nope - enough time wasted on you - read your Sluggo interview. Or get it from somebody else. Then claim it as your own. *You were told to read the thread many times, early. You might want to go back and read the thread. It's all there prior to you and 2010. From me and others. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mrshutter45 21 #41763 July 29, 2013 "She stopped speaking to the media completely before, in about 1979 or 1980, entering the Maria Regina Convent, a Carmelite Catholic nunnery outside Eugene, Oregon." Long shot.... what if she did accept the money? possibly eating her up and decides to get rid of it.....could be more logical than other theories....."It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites 377 20 #41764 July 29, 2013 WA State History Museum wrote asking if I would lend my Cooper twenty for display in their Cooper exibit. Of course I said yes. It doesnt get out much and undoubtedly is tired of my constant interrogations. A trip back to the hood will do it good. 3772018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites georger 197 #41765 July 29, 2013 Sluggo This doesn't sound like a guy who was pissed off because his interview didn't make the book, does it? And as I said, Sluggo's website is linked on our own pages as the best source of solid info on the Cooper case. You are WAY off base and the pitcher picked you off easily. In fact, Sluggo is first in line where we point out resources people should consult. Here's his entry at AB: Quote Sluggo pissed off? Thats an emotion. You mind meld with Sluggo? Another straw man. I didnt say he was pissed off. Another straw man. I dont have the faintest idea what his emotions were. For all your vaunting of Sluggo's expertise and linking his wesbite none of it sunk it with you personally. You have been citing 3-bundles and other MYTHS and defending them vociferously for three years. Thats not a straw man but a FACT. Gayla did the editing! What makes her a Cooper expert? Is she? Im glad you keep mentioning Gayla. Ive said all along yours is a joint venture here on Dropzone. Now we know she edited a Cooper book, for content! Point is: its the CONTENT of Sluggo's interview that matters. Goes to FACTS vs MYTH in the Cooper case vs. the myths you have been arguing/promoting for three years bashing everyone over the head with it ........ ALL BECAUSE YOU AGREE WITH SLUGGO AND THINK HE'S THE BEST RELIABLE SOURCE ON COOPER GOING! Did you know we discussed bringing Sluggo on board with the Science Team? Tell us about that since you know all - And we havent even touched on the Flight Path and other central issues. Maybe your and Gayla's BOOK colored everything and did not dispose you to looking for facts vs myths or doing any real research? But I dont have to defend Sluggo. Sluggo is more than competent to defend himself! Sluggo would judge this (and me) to be a total waste of time. Sluggos' concern is facts vs myths and the consequences myth generates in the public's mind. And the historical role of myth in the Cooper saga, beginning with law enforcement people ... Meanwhile money settled in at Tina Bar, for better or for worse. So far its all been for the worse! Maybe if we can clear enough myth makers out of the way, some facts might emerge? What do you think - Gayla ? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ParrotheadVol 70 #41766 July 29, 2013 377WA State History Museum wrote asking if I would lend my Cooper twenty for display in their Cooper exibit. Of course I said yes. It doesnt get out much and undoubtedly is tired of my constant interrogations. A trip back to the hood will do it good. 377 I would love to have one. I would proudly display it right next to my autographed pic of Pete Rose. Someday maybe. Blevins, you're not the only one to get the cover wrong. Skyjack had Cooper still wearing a tie."They were saying he was never gonna make it now, now that daylight had set in. But later that night, they were shining those lights back down on that mountain again." - Todd Snider Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites 377 20 #41767 July 29, 2013 Quote I would love to have one. I would proudly display it right next to my autographed pic of Pete Rose. Someday maybe. Did you have to make a bet with Pete to get his signature?3772018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skyjack71 0 #41768 July 30, 2013 mrshutter45"She stopped speaking to the media completely before, in about 1979 or 1980, entering the Maria Regina Convent, a Carmelite Catholic nunnery outside Eugene, Oregon." Long shot.... what if she did accept the money? possibly eating her up and decides to get rid of it.....could be more logical than other theories..... Well, Who was Duane referring to when he mentioned Gresham and knowing someone there who worked in a nursing home or retirement home? At the time the statement was made was the afternoon of the day Duane disappeared for 5 1/2 hours from The Dalles and came back to the room soiled. He put my luggage in the car and then washed up. Duane perhaps paying Tina a visit in 1979 is NOT just speculation. The ex-wife of the days 1962 to 1972 worked for a CREDIT card company. She lived not too far from where Tina was living when she got her divorce. WHAT IF the ex contacted Duane (I know the two of them made contact in 1976 because I put him on the plane to see her so he could wash her out of his hair). Read Max's book. Then read the letters Max and I exchanged if and when I ever get up the nerve to publish them. She waited over 5 yrs after she thought Duane had died - to recontact MAX in a phone call after tipping the bottle a few times too many. There is more I have to say on this but I will be sure I have the communication notes in hand, so NO one can say I said or she said this one time and then something else another time. As I have said my memory is starting to elude me as time takes over, but the material I have will survive me and my daughters know who to turn all of it over to. Definitely not the FBI, but some one who might someday be able to piece this CRAP together. Some one who I hope will still be alive if and when documents are ever made available. A man who treasure the United States of America - his motto was DO NO HARM! Now there is even a series by that name but no connection to the man of the days. This group was formed in the late 50's and I know of "errands" run up until 1973. - This group was made up of men who were thought to be deceased, excons and others able to infiltrate the Mafia and the Unions. He warned individuals about an attempt that was going to be made on Kennedy. Kennedy either did NOT get the message or he was a risk taker. I believe he did NOT get the message! This group was at Dealey Plaza on that faithful day - hoping to prevent the assinations, but they were UNARMED....supposedly. There was a clip that got out never intended to ever be seen by anyone, but it was briefly on TV and then - NEVER EVER seen or heard about again. I tried to get a copy - but it had been removed. It was tape that had never been seen before. Of course the good ole US Goverment has the tape now or they destroyed it. I happened to be watching TV on that night but did NOT have the ability to record it - and NOW it has been deleted from history. I made a frantic phone call to a friend, but he was unable to ever get the clip. In the clip there was a man on the mound with a hat on and an overcoat over his LEFT arm. I thought I recognized the man, but I needed to see a still or a copy of the clip. IT was removed from existence. Someone had made it public and it went POOF! Instantly. This was since 2007! I briefly discussed this in the thread - but everyone thought I was crazy and delusional and OFF my rocker! NO one ever produced the clip for viewing. I do not know if I disclosed the details of why I wanted that clip, but I am now. I am tired of this so called AMERICAN way of keeping secrets. The man who created this group of guys - infiltrated the Unions, the Mafia and the criminal world where NO others could have gone. Yet, he rubbed shoulders with presidents, governor and some very wealthy and influencial people in his life. The CIA or secret service would not have ever have made it past first base. These guys did! They were guys NO one gave a damn about - but, some of them became very productive citizens and their backgrounds kept them safe....some didn't make it. Some used the abilities they acquired for the wrong reasons and others were able to make new lives with new identies and good jobs. WELL, it makes a good story doesn't it Georger? Jo is old and she is a dead woman anyway. Who is going to believe ONE damn word she says. What I have written above I am now doing because of the other individual claiming some things about the 60's - is someone out there like myself was expose to a few things, but he doesn't know who the connector is...or even why he thinks he knows some things. Maybe I PLANTED them! Now when you guys unravel this I won't be alive or give a RATS ass. Do I sound like Knoss - in a way I am sure I do to some of you at this point! It is all about SECRETS - why the hell do any of you think Carr chose the name Ckret? So - I am completely off my Rocker, Delusion and Crazy. The FBI and the Government finally got their DAMN wish other than they hoped I would up and die. I tried doing it their WAY and NOW I will do it MY WAY - if it KILLS ME! I tried to say away from the covert shit - but, it keeps coming up and right back at me!Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ParrotheadVol 70 #41769 July 30, 2013 377 Quote I would love to have one. I would proudly display it right next to my autographed pic of Pete Rose. Someday maybe. Did you have to make a bet with Pete to get his signature?377 Nope. Here is the pic of him signing it. I have this picture on my facebook page and the caption reads: "Me getting to meet one of Baseballs greats and one of my favorite players of all time, Pete Rose. It looks like he's signing an autograph, but he's actually helping me with my parlay picks." Back to the Cooper 20, I know Ingram has sold several of them. Any guess as to how many he has left?"They were saying he was never gonna make it now, now that daylight had set in. But later that night, they were shining those lights back down on that mountain again." - Todd Snider Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites georger 197 #41770 July 30, 2013 *The possibility of three bundles of the ransom being found at Tina Bar is a myth? *But what IS known is the amount found on the river. And that amount adds up to MORE than a single bundle. This was my point when I questioned the idea of the money just washing up there, Quote Both of yours stared above are False. The myth covered by Sluggo is that Cooper offered 3 bundles to Tina then stuff 3 bundles in his coat pocket. Read Sluggo's statement below, again. Maybe you will get this right next time? Your second myth: The actual amount recovered by Ingram, the actual number of bills, has never been ascertained to my knowledge. A full and final accounting of serial numbers identified has never been published by the FBI, if it exists at all! Ingram and I and others discussed this at length... because its rather important to know the number of deposits, their locations, the amounts involved, in order to extrapolate back to how much money might have been at Tina by some date certain, by some means. Again you need to go back and read the Thread. It came as a surprise to Brian when he sent his money to the auction company, a restorationist at the auction company noticed small fragments of serial numbers previously missed by the FBI. Those serial numbers matched serial numbers from the FBI's original list but not previously evident in the Ingram bills. Very likely the insurance company's bills would reveal new serial numbers, or parts of previously unoticed serial numbers also. $5800 is only one lowball estimate of the Ingram find. Obviously it was more than $5800. Further fragments were lost at the Ingram apartment during the cleaning process. Further fragments and goo containing decomposed money was found at Tina Bar. The Galen Cook discovery adds still more to the count. And there are other accounts of money fragments which are still unresolved. So contrary to your uninformed claim, the actual amount that was "found" at Tina Bar is not known ... only a ballpark estimate is know and that estimate is something in excess of $5800 and 3 bundles, it is thought. All $5800 establishes is a static point in time in which money was decomposing and natural forces were working, at which point Brian Ingram intervened to stop the natural process in February of 1980. To my knowledge, Tom Kaye and you are the only persons to ever suggest that the money at Tina Bar was something other than the result of a natural process. Since the money came to Earth in 1971, we presume, the money was part of the natural environment and natural processes from Nov 24th 1971, until some it is found at Tina Bar in 1980. If this is true, then the $5800 socalled at Tina Bar was the net result of natural forces from the time it separated from Cooper. And if it is more than $5800 then we are talking about a larger (set of natural forces) at work over time probably connecting different geography. Even Palmer thought the money had arrived on Tina Bar by natural means from somewhere but had a prior natural history. Yours is simply an uninformed speculation you use, as Sluggo politely tried to point out. ~~~ Porteous: Stewardess Tina Mucklow testified that Cooper tried to hand her three packets of the ransom money, and that she refused it. Does anyone know whether he secured the money back into the money bag, or did he put it somewhere else after she refused it? Walker: First, I’m not really sure it was offered to Mucklow alone. It may have been offered to all three cabin attendants or to Mucklow and Schaffner together (Alice Hancock probably was already off the plane). The bag was open (it had no zipper or other method of closure) and he had not yet sealed it with parachute cord or attached to his body. Therefore, I can’t imagine why he would put the money anywhere other than back into the bag it came from. Porteous: Along that same line, do you think these packets could be the same three packets that were found on the river in Vancouver, Washington in 1980? Walker: I don’t see any evidence to support that theory. To make that assumption would be pure (unsupported) speculation. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skyjack71 0 #41771 July 30, 2013 No one asked Jo Weber for anything. She moves slowly now so it take a while, but they never did ask. Yet, Weber was the ONLY valid suspect ever. What they need. The letter from The NIGHT clerk and his communication with Magie Boule. 1.The pictures of WEBER and ask Roy Rose if he is still living to take the Composite and match the before and after pics of Weber. Add the side burns and give him a head full of hair instead of a close prison cut and give him some lower teeth. Put that side by side with the Composit. 2. The before and after pics surrounding the Jefferson prison intake the FBI so skillfully made sure I did NOT see 17 yrs ago and then again in 2006 when Carr denied me the Jefferson Pics. 3. Is it because they couldn't find them? Well, how the hell did Shutter find them? 4. Why did Weber tell his wife "I'mmmm Dan Cooooper" - she had not idea who Dan Cooper was. 5. A copy of the hospital records for when Weber was arrested for trying to obtain a Drivers License under another name (John C. Collins). The the actually drivers license he had already obtained in the State of Fl only one day before they arreste him (he again BEAT the SYSTEM). 6. An explanation from the FBI as to why they ignored Weber's Ms file and the driver's license under that name. 7. A copy of Duane's San Quentin file showing he had a scar on his hand exactly where Tina said Cooper had a scar. Seven is a good number unless someone can add something to that list and see that the FBI & the Museum gets it! Proof! Jo has more PROOF on WEBER than any suspect ever presented - but the FBI and the STATE of WA wants Weber to GO away. JT tells every one Jo is a liar and fantasy story teller - perhaps JT was part of the DO NO HARM bunch. I supposedly made all of this SHIT up. HEY! This girl is not that smart. I saw the ticket. I saw the bank bag all clean and crisp folded in the console...and the name of the bank on it. Duane Weber left a book in a safe deposit box unknown to the widow. A magazine with the article showing a man jumping with a barrel between his legs and I actually think that is how WEBER took the money down. Tina claimed he was tying the package around his waist (he anchored the package to his waist but with some slack in the rope). Cooper used more than ONE anchor to himself....aways have a back-up. I had a canvas satchel with a long handle that Himmelsbach told me WAS NOT anything resembling what Cooper had, yet the CO-pilot said the money was put in a satchel with a strap. Just like the satchel I got rid of. Mr. H said it was not part of the crime and there was a good chance I could have retrived it from the charity I donated it to or have bought it back with a nice donation. Bet that museum would NOT want to present the pics of a dead man who was still alive yrs after he supposedly died...Duane's good friend. How about the MOUSE? Or perhaps a watch Cooper might have worn. Yet, using a secret door to a house a suspect lived in and one that did NOT even come close to the description of Cooper is appropriate. WHY not the MOUSE and the WATCH? How about a Cook Book that might put Cooper (duh - Weber) on the damn plane. A cookbook that came from the place Tina was born and raised! Only 3000 copies and I know where 3 of them are or where until the author died a few yrs ago. All three were in FL - 3 out of 3000 old cook books ended up in FL. How about another Cook Book - one that was contributed to by the locals in WA and ID and OR. One of the contributors was a woman in Mt. St Helens, OR who was the artist and a place Duane said he knew a woman who lived there. Why not a picture of the OLD Cooper boys - from Mt. St. Helens, OR...who were questioned after the crime. Include ALL the suspects or NONE at ALL! Best of all - use the Jefferson intake photos and then surround it with all of the before and afters of Weber showing a stronger chin with one BLK & WHT composite buried in the surrounding pics - FIND out what the PUBLIC thinks!Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites BobKnoss 0 #41772 July 30, 2013 Because you were all ASKED to do that. That's why. COMPLICITY AFTER THE FACT. Aught to be good for 8-10 in Federal lock-up. No time off for good behavior from the feds. You does the crime, you pays the time. They don't fool around like they used to. The guys would like to see a new fish like you stroll in. (Drool) Jim told me the whole thing. Gunna call him a liar?????? Guess not, huh. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites 377 20 #41773 July 30, 2013 Jo wroteQuoteYet, Weber was the ONLY valid suspect ever Jo, Don't you think that is a biased overstatement? 377 PS: I really liked Meyer Louie's and Robert 99's Tena Bar site visit. Finally a break in personal attacks and a return to real feet on the ground investigation. How refreshing and uplifting.2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites georger 197 #41774 July 30, 2013 For example, how long could the money have existed in the state it was found, assuming that Cooper was killed and that's how the money ended up there somehow? Nine years between hijacking and money find. Kaye and his folks say no way on that, from their analysis of the remaining bills. Kaye even tells Geoff Gray for his book that he believes the money arrived at Tina Bar by 'non-natural means'. Quote Myths vs Facts: Kaye's assertion of arrival by non-natural means has nothing to do with his analysis of the bills as you assert. On his website Kaye does make an association between the 'time of arrival' he thinks the money arrived at Tina Bar and a 'deterioration timeline for the rubber bands' he has constructed, but he does not use that to support a theory of 'arrival by non natural means'. Tom's only support for 'arrived by non natural means' is the flight path. That has nothing to with his analysis of the bills. You can read that here http://www.citizensleuths.com/flightpath.html under MoneyFind/Flight Path Analysis. So I don't know where you are getting 'Kaye says non natural means from his analysis of the remaining bills'. That doesn't exist! It's a conclusion you or Gray made. On a personal note* Your use of my email address on your LinkedIn account has been terminated. You are NOT entitled to use my email address for any purpose. IS THAT CLEAR! ? Who else's private email addresses from Dropzone users are you using for your private use? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites georger 197 #41775 July 30, 2013 377Jo wroteQuoteYet, Weber was the ONLY valid suspect ever Jo, Don't you think that is a biased overstatement? 377 PS: I really liked Meyer Louie's and Robert 99's Tena Bar site visit. Finally a break in personal attacks and a return to real feet on the ground investigation. How refreshing and uplifting. Nice public stance. Can I link your email address to my LinkedIn account for ads? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1666 1667 1668 1669 1670 1671 1672 1673 1674 1675 1676 Next Page 1671 of 2540 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. 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skyjack71 0 #41752 July 28, 2013 Quote EDIT: You refer to the alleged radio (Simmons) interview with Lyle Christiansen. Blevins U need to have YOUR head examined. I for ONE will ATTEST that Lyle told me - the very SAME thing he told the man at the RADIO program. Of Course, MY word is nothing, but I have actually spoke with Lyle about this radio program twice. Once on my own and the other time was the LAST time you got on this subject. Since I had engaged in productive communications with Lyle in the past, I TOOK it upon myself to re-establish the contact with ONLY the RADIO statement being MY TARGET. I worked with other individuals in doing this - and then reported the results to the thread. So Blevins I have to agree with Georger on this point. Perhaps I have an obsessive thing going on about Duane - but, I actually knew and lived with this man and he did confessed to me. I had a direct involvement and actually HELD evidence in my hands (NONE of it MAKES Weber Cooper)....at least I have a BASIS for my obsession to prove Weber was Cooper....and I may have done it already! YOU have nothing and PLEASE do not recite your POINTS and YOUR investigation.... Why am I fed up with your posts? Well, your child like defenses about interviews actually publicized and dictated and admitted to by Lyle make YOU one SICK PUPPY! For you to sit there and continue argue about what LYLE said in a public interview and use up valuable space - means only one thing. YOU are into this to SELL the book and to make YOURSELF known. Well, you can put the manuscript in a fireplace along with any other manuscript you write. ALL you do with you continued participation defending your book is only going to DESTROY any future you have as a writer. I do not see how you have TIME to write as much as you post to this thread. If I am Crazy, Delusional and Off My Rockery - well, some how you have surpassed me! YOU need to take a GOOD look at yourself in the MIRROR! I do and I see an old woman who has used up 18yrs of her life to chase the past of the man who confessed to her he was DAN COOPER. You do not even have a confession to base your book on.Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BruceSmith 3 #41753 July 28, 2013 Greetings Everyone, Meyer Louie asked me to post his report of his recent exploration of Tina Bar with Robert99. The entire report is posted on the Mountain News - WA, and I will be posting it here as well. It has a selection of Meyer's photos, too, which has been a difficulty on my part to get them posted here at the DZ. I will try, however. In the meantime, here's the link: http://themountainnewswa.net/2013/07/28/db-cooper-local-sleuth-re-investigates-money-find-location/#more-6670 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BruceSmith 3 #41754 July 28, 2013 BruceSmithGreetings Everyone, Meyer Louie asked me to post his report of his recent exploration of Tina Bar with Robert99. The entire report is posted on the Mountain News - WA, and I will be posting it here as well. It has a selection of Meyer's photos, too, which has been a difficulty on my part to get them posted here at the DZ. I will try, however. In the meantime, here's the link: http://themountainnewswa.net/2013/07/28/db-cooper-local-sleuth-re-investigates-money-find-location/#more-6670 Here's Meyer's report: Exploring Tina Bar with Robert99 on Friday, July 26, 2013 I had the pleasure of meeting a great guy, Robert99, and spending the day exploring Tina-Bar with him. We spent the day thoroughly exploring the area in the immediate vicinity of the Ingram money find. Robert99 brought the township/range coordinates of the money find location, and -- after figuring out how to use his brand new, hand-held GPS locator -- we eventually found ourselves standing on the exact spot of the Brian Ingram money find – using the GPS coordinates as our guide. After taking a lunch break at a McDonald’s in downtown Vancouver, we came back to Tina-Bar and used Robert99’s metal detectors. We ended up scanning and searching pretty much every square foot of a 25-yard by 50-yard section just above the money find. It was hot, around 100 degrees where we were (Robert99 confirmed the temperature with his equipment). We both got real sunburned, and I came down with a little heat exhaustion - but some shade, lots of water, and a jump into the Columbia River fixed me right up. I’m getting a little ahead of myself. The day played itself out in stages. I emailed Robert99 from my home in the South Puget Sound area at 5:30 am, informing him that I was on my way to meet him at 8:00 am, in Vancouver, WA, at the Best Western hotel – where he was staying. I got there a few minutes late. Robert99 had tons of maps; he took one out and showed me where we were headed for the day. We took off. Our first stop was Vancouver Lake Park. We found a picnic table, where Robert99 took out more maps. Then he took out his NB6 parachute pack and harness (actual canopy not included). He thoroughly explained every part of the apparatus – and how it all worked together. Amazing information! We looked at several more maps, and I saw a 2-inch binder of just some of Robert99’s research. Amazing, again. Then we headed to Tina-Bar. What a great area – a couple of times we were fortunate enough to see Mt. Hood and Mt. St. Helens from the same spot. I followed Robert99’s nice, blue sedan in my pickup. We drove just past the Fazio Brothers sand operation and into the Fazio driveway. We stopped at the main office and got permission from Mr. Fazio (I didn’t get which brother he was – I did the asking, I must’ve been a little nervous) to spend several hours at their beachfront there, Tina-Bar. Mr. Fazio was very cordial and gracious; he asked that we not drive down onto the river road – where the fishermen were, members only. We spent a long time just walking around -- looking and exploring. I took several pictures - all day, in fact (several are attached). We met a gentleman there by the name of Jon Livermore (he gave me permission to use his name here). He said he had been fishing Tina-Bar for 56 years – that he had pretty much grown up there – give or take a few years. He was very helpful and cordial, and he answered every question we asked -- and much more. He talked about the cabin that was once there. It would be several feet off shore, well into the River by now. The cabin was removed before shore and bank erosion would have eventually swept it away. Jon said in the summer of 1978, he was able to drive his car here (he pointed out to the Columbia River – in the same direction where the cabin used to be). Jon talked about the sand and clay. He said the piles of sand all around us came from river dredging; you could see the original clay only close to shore. He said it was not unusual for the beach to lose two feet to five feet of sand in high-river runoff, and it would be even more in a flood event. Jon said the beach at Tina-Bar in 1980 was several feet higher (as in way over my head higher) than it is now. Several feet of shore have eroded away – it was painfully obvious, in light of Jon’s explanation. He said it’s only going to get worse. Jon also pointed to the shore sand and said to notice the slope, the steepness, of the sand itself, and also to notice the little “cliffs” at the top edge of the sand. “That’s erosion…where the sand keeps dropping off.” he said. “We’ve lost trees – the trees and shrubs [close to shore] will go too.” Beyond the top edge of the little sand cliffs was a ridge, an embankment of piled high dirt that ran parallel to shore. Beyond the ridge of dirt was a slight land depression – a little draw, if you will - that ran parallel to the embankment. We asked about that. Jon said that was a filtration system to keep cow feces out of the river. Robert99 asked if the Columbia River could have ever breached the embankment and gotten into the filtration land area. Jon said “No.” We asked Jon to indicate the highest water level he’d ever seen the Columbia River reach. He pointed to a log on the hillside, below the top of the embankment -- above and to the right of the money find, toward the Fazio’s. My estimate – about 10-15 feet above current river level. Robert99 will, no doubt, have a better estimate – gauging water levels isn’t exactly my area of expertise. Jon came by several times thereafter to offer his assistance. What a nice guy! Robert99 said we should check out a briar patch at the top of the embankment – just below the little sand “cliffs.” We hadn’t broken out the metal detectors yet. So what I do? I put on my winter coat, some long pants, and my boots (it was 100 degrees out, remember). I take just a hammer and a pocket knife and I cut my way through the briar patch – thorns and all – checking every square inch as I inched my way toward the center of the briar patch. I’m thinking that’s where the heat exhaustion and all those scratch marks came from, ya think? We did more exploring, more talking to Jon. Robert99 used his GPS device to pinpoint the exact location of the money find, using the township and range coordinates that Robert99 brought with him. We marked the spot, exactly. Around that time, Robert99 found some canvas webbing in the sand, not too far from the money find location. It looks like an extra wide belt (see attached photo). It has some lettering on it that said ‘AAR 77.’ Also, there is something else; it says ‘7,700 LBS.’ Can anybody help identify what this webbing is? Is it a parachute harness? Is it a cargo strap? What is it? We aren’t sure. Your assistance is needed – and appreciated. Thanks. Then we took a lunch break. We drove all the way past downtown Vancouver to a McDonalds -- and ate big. We were hungry and thirsty and definitely feeling the effects of the high temperature that day. When we returned to Tina-Bar, we got out the metal detectors and commenced to search every square foot of the embankment and filtration land areas – 25 yards by 50 yards I’d say. Thanks to Robert99 for the great gear, sophisticated instrumentation, and abundant information -- from all his years of quality research. We ended the day at Tina-Bar, late afternoon, then we drove back to the Best Western. Robert99 bought us a soda (and lunch too, by the way, thanks again). We sat in the air-conditioned Best Western lobby and reviewed our day at Tina-Bar. We didn’t find what we were hoping to find (a parachute, more money, lots of pretty dancing girls), but we learned a lot by being there. We explored, we asked questions, and we carefully examined and studied the immediate area surrounding the exact money find location at Tina-Bar. If there are any errors or omissions in my report, Robert99, please feel free to correct and alter as you see fit. I thank Robert99 for sharing his wisdom, knowledge, expertise, research, and hospitality. He traveled a great distance to be here today. And thanks for the invitation, Robert99 -- it’s a day I will never forget. Meyer Louie July 27, 2013 (Pix to come - BAS, or visit the MN.) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
matthewcline 0 #41755 July 28, 2013 AAR 77 is a Standard set forth by the Association of American Railroads. The standards the AAR Set are used in complying with Load Securing methods for Cargo Transport. The "77" portion refers to either; the year the Strap was either inspected or re-inspected for use, or the year group standard it was certified under. It matters not really as far as Cooper lore, as the markings alone would rule it out as equipment from the highjacking. MattAn Instructors first concern is student safety. So, start being safe, first!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyjack71 0 #41756 July 29, 2013 Meyer Louis stated about the man who assisted them: QuoteHe was very helpful and cordial, and he answered every question we asked -- and much more. He talked about the cabin that was once there. It would be several feet off shore, well into the River by now. The cabin was removed before shore and bank erosion would have eventually swept it away. Jon said in the summer of 1978, he was able to drive his car here (he pointed out to the Columbia River – in the same direction where the cabin used to be). I need to KNOW more about this CABIN and exactly where it was located in 1979. Remember I have insisted for yrs that behind the Original house and then behind the fence and tree line was a SHED. I could see only part of it - so it could have been called a cabin in the days. I want to know the location of that CABIN or SHED in relation to the position of the house, fence and the money find. Remember that Duane disappeared from my site just behind the house and that I have stated there was a shed there in 1979. In 2001 when I was there with Himmelsbach and one of the Fazio's I asked about the shed and was told there was one they stored equipment in, but could never get anyone to show me pictures of this shed or proof or disproof it was there. Nothing was ever written about this, but what I thought I saw....the shed thing was part of why I thought perhaps this was not the right place in 2001 that I saw in 1979 - but everything else was right. The house, the gate and the view across the river and the equipment on our left. The trees and the fence. Note there was in 1979 a fence below the Fazio house at the tree line. There was fence at the gate which was North & East of the house. There was a parking area there with some very large trees in 1979 and 2001. The house was closer to the water than the GATE and the Trees with a parking area. Duane left me in the lot in the car and told me to stay there. I hope Meire and Robert got the man's contact numbe and asked him if he had pictures of the cabin or shed and of the house from 1979 - very very important to me. A picture made from the trees and the parking area. North and East of the house. I have to know what I was able to see from there in 1979. I need to know if it matches my memory. I have never found anyone who could or would produce pictures from 1979 or before.Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyjack71 0 #41757 July 29, 2013 RobertMBlevinsHmm. Well, let's suppose that one time (forget his testimony for the TV show) Lyle said somewhere he didn't think his brother was Cooper? My answer to that is: How the heck would he know? He doesn't, and neither do I. I can tell you this much. Looking over his emails since late 2009, his KNOWN (not alleged) public statements say something completely different that what you or Georger say. He's provided a great deal of pictures, documents, and personal letters, as well as signing away any rights to his brother's story or those items...in an effort to get to the truth on Kenny. Lyle's verbal words to me and to other as to his motivation are suspect! He thought it would make a good MOVIE! That is the action of someone interested something. Those were the thoughts of Lyle after watching a documentary on Cooper and why he sent a letter to someone (I don't remember who) regarding that he thought his brother could be Cooper. Well everyone knows how this went. The investigator let it go and you took that bit of information and rolled with it. Yea, Lyle is an old man and he and his wife thought it could be a good story - Lyle did NOT know or have any knowledge of KC being Cooper. It was an idea born from a documentary on the TV.Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georger 197 #41758 July 29, 2013 Exploring Tina Bar with Robert99 on Friday, July 26, 2013 Meyer Louie July 27, 2013 (Pix to come - BAS, or visit the MN.)Quote Very nice Meyer, R99, and Bruce. Is there a photo of the exact location of the money find mentioned in the article ? Where you drove a stake? Would love to see a photos of that ... then photos from that money find location in all directions ? Thanks for a very nice article - wish I had been there! What is the canvas strap from? Lastly: Does R99 have an estimate of the amount of beach loss between Dec 1971 - 1974 dredging and between 1974 dredging and money find in Feb 1980? Did you ask the fisherman? Am I to understand everything above the money find is pretty much the same as it was in 1980 ... 1971 ... according to the fisherman ? We need photos of that area and photos from that area looking back toward the sand operation and Catapillar Island ... ? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites georger 197 #41759 July 29, 2013 RobertMBlevins Really, Georger. Your point is moot beyond belief. When Blast came out, Sluggo would undoubtably have asked his interview be removed from it. He was completely against the book, which is his perfect right. Blast does polarize people sometimes. Some think we hit the nail on the head, others think we didn't. What can you do about that? Nothing. So what do you want from me exactly? Should I spend the money to put it back in...and then have Sluggo contact me to remove it? Or is Sluggo telling you now he's seen the KC report, and the Revised Edition and wants his interview now included because he thinks KC is now a legit suspect? What's your point? If he's saying that now, he should contact me and maybe I will add him to the book if he wishes. But he will have to sign a release if he wants this, because I'm not spending the money to do it if he's going to turn around and say 'take it out' a week later, LOL. I don't have a problem with you posting it up. Maybe it should be seen, since it was never going into the book and would have been taken out later anyway. Or whatever. Your point keeps escaping me... Quote Well Bobert, I dont care what you want or think. As I keep saying (but you're not listening!) ... the Sluggo Interview is important and stands on it's own. Sluggo's interview with Porteous is NOT ABOUT YOU! So you can hang out a flag, make tortillas, smoke a joint, hoist iron lawn chairs over your head, or milk a goat ... so far as I care. NEW post on Sluggo Interview coming up whether you like/want it or not! This thread is about RobertMBlevins ... ooops ... I mean DB Cooper! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites georger 197 #41760 July 29, 2013 RobertMBlevins Really, Georger. Your point is moot beyond belief. Quote The point is: Sluggo says, "3 bundles of money" is myth, and not fact. 3 bundles of money never existed! I will explain why this matters. (Blevins and to some extent Tom Kaye have been using the myth of 3 bundles of money for years ignoring and dissmissing all pleas to STOP! 3 bundles of money is Blevinstown Kool Aid gospel.) Porteous and Sluggo say: Porteous: Stewardess Tina Mucklow testified that Cooper tried to hand her three packets of the ransom money, and that she refused it. Does anyone know whether he secured the money back into the money bag, or did he put it somewhere else after she refused it? Walker: First, I’m not really sure it was offered to Mucklow alone. It may have been offered to all three cabin attendants or to Mucklow and Schaffner together (Alice Hancock probably was already off the plane). The bag was open (it had no zipper or other method of closure) and he had not yet sealed it with parachute cord or attached to his body. Therefore, I can’t imagine why he would put the money anywhere other than back into the bag it came from. Porteous: Along that same line, do you think these packets could be the same three packets that were found on the river in Vancouver, Washington in 1980? Walker: I don’t see any evidence to support that theory. To make that assumption would be pure (unsupported) speculation. So, fact or MYTH ? 1: Tina Mucklow testified that Cooper tried to hand her three packets of the ransom money, [Did Tina specify three packets? Where is this socalled tesimony documented? All Tina said was that he Cooper was fondling the money in the bag and brought up "a group of money and took some" and offered it to her and Schaffner. Schaffner declined and Tina replied: 'We arent allowed to take tips'! Nowhere in this is three bundles or packets of money even mentioned!] 2: Cooper put the three bundles/packets into his coat pocket. [There is no testimony which says or even implies that - there is no testimony about this at all!] 3: The 3 bundles offered Tina is the same 3 bundles found at Tina Bar. [There is no tesimony 3 bundles were offered Tina. There is no evidence only 3 bundles were in situ at Tina Bar. There is multiple evidence more than 3 bundles were in situ at Tina Bar and after testing Ingram's portion alone turned out to be more than originally thought or alloted. Everyone including Ingram believes money was on top of what Ingram found and had been eroded and swept away prior to Ingram making his find. And the testimony of every single witness supports that conclusion, to one extent or another!] Why is this important? Because MYTHS lead to one set of conclusions. FACTS lead to another set of conclusions. The facts don't support the Kaye-Blevins conclusion that the Ingram find represents 3 bundles of money supposedly offered Tina then stuffed into Cooper's pocket, which he lost somewhere on the way down or he buried at Tina Bar! The facts support an alluvial-erosion story: the idea that more than $5800 represents the actual amount in the Ingram find, something more than 3 bundles were in residence on Tina Bar prior to the Ingram find, and given the very active nature of Tina Bar (erosion and flood events etc) that much more than $5800 was originally on Tina Bar, of which the Ingram and other finds represent survivors ... not the original deposit(s). The facts support a multiple deposit and erosion sequence which supports natural forces being responsible for the total deposit(s) in the first place. That is the POINT!, Mr. Blevins. FACTS vs MYTHS. Truth vs Myth. Are we here to research DB Cooper or worship your quick comeback personality as MYTH? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites georger 197 #41761 July 29, 2013 Geez...who got up on the wrong side of the bed? Quote Beds has nothing to do with your use of MYTHS over FACTS. You and Porteous HAD Sluggo's interview and instead of sharing it with anyone, chose to concel it, until Sluggo published it himself... then you surfaced with excuses/reasons. You always resort to something "personal". Geestman is a liar you say - and explode over! You even include "That Woman - the harlot of Begonia"! Your whole PERSONAL MYTH FACTORY is down the toilet. Three years wasted for your benefit. That is the true story of your Cooperland ... write it up. Please FLUSH! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites georger 197 #41762 July 29, 2013 RobertMBlevins You're going to have to explain to me how MORE than one bundle of the ransom ended up in the same spot Nope - enough time wasted on you - read your Sluggo interview. Or get it from somebody else. Then claim it as your own. *You were told to read the thread many times, early. You might want to go back and read the thread. It's all there prior to you and 2010. From me and others. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mrshutter45 21 #41763 July 29, 2013 "She stopped speaking to the media completely before, in about 1979 or 1980, entering the Maria Regina Convent, a Carmelite Catholic nunnery outside Eugene, Oregon." Long shot.... what if she did accept the money? possibly eating her up and decides to get rid of it.....could be more logical than other theories....."It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites 377 20 #41764 July 29, 2013 WA State History Museum wrote asking if I would lend my Cooper twenty for display in their Cooper exibit. Of course I said yes. It doesnt get out much and undoubtedly is tired of my constant interrogations. A trip back to the hood will do it good. 3772018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites georger 197 #41765 July 29, 2013 Sluggo This doesn't sound like a guy who was pissed off because his interview didn't make the book, does it? And as I said, Sluggo's website is linked on our own pages as the best source of solid info on the Cooper case. You are WAY off base and the pitcher picked you off easily. In fact, Sluggo is first in line where we point out resources people should consult. Here's his entry at AB: Quote Sluggo pissed off? Thats an emotion. You mind meld with Sluggo? Another straw man. I didnt say he was pissed off. Another straw man. I dont have the faintest idea what his emotions were. For all your vaunting of Sluggo's expertise and linking his wesbite none of it sunk it with you personally. You have been citing 3-bundles and other MYTHS and defending them vociferously for three years. Thats not a straw man but a FACT. Gayla did the editing! What makes her a Cooper expert? Is she? Im glad you keep mentioning Gayla. Ive said all along yours is a joint venture here on Dropzone. Now we know she edited a Cooper book, for content! Point is: its the CONTENT of Sluggo's interview that matters. Goes to FACTS vs MYTH in the Cooper case vs. the myths you have been arguing/promoting for three years bashing everyone over the head with it ........ ALL BECAUSE YOU AGREE WITH SLUGGO AND THINK HE'S THE BEST RELIABLE SOURCE ON COOPER GOING! Did you know we discussed bringing Sluggo on board with the Science Team? Tell us about that since you know all - And we havent even touched on the Flight Path and other central issues. Maybe your and Gayla's BOOK colored everything and did not dispose you to looking for facts vs myths or doing any real research? But I dont have to defend Sluggo. Sluggo is more than competent to defend himself! Sluggo would judge this (and me) to be a total waste of time. Sluggos' concern is facts vs myths and the consequences myth generates in the public's mind. And the historical role of myth in the Cooper saga, beginning with law enforcement people ... Meanwhile money settled in at Tina Bar, for better or for worse. So far its all been for the worse! Maybe if we can clear enough myth makers out of the way, some facts might emerge? What do you think - Gayla ? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ParrotheadVol 70 #41766 July 29, 2013 377WA State History Museum wrote asking if I would lend my Cooper twenty for display in their Cooper exibit. Of course I said yes. It doesnt get out much and undoubtedly is tired of my constant interrogations. A trip back to the hood will do it good. 377 I would love to have one. I would proudly display it right next to my autographed pic of Pete Rose. Someday maybe. Blevins, you're not the only one to get the cover wrong. Skyjack had Cooper still wearing a tie."They were saying he was never gonna make it now, now that daylight had set in. But later that night, they were shining those lights back down on that mountain again." - Todd Snider Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites 377 20 #41767 July 29, 2013 Quote I would love to have one. I would proudly display it right next to my autographed pic of Pete Rose. Someday maybe. Did you have to make a bet with Pete to get his signature?3772018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skyjack71 0 #41768 July 30, 2013 mrshutter45"She stopped speaking to the media completely before, in about 1979 or 1980, entering the Maria Regina Convent, a Carmelite Catholic nunnery outside Eugene, Oregon." Long shot.... what if she did accept the money? possibly eating her up and decides to get rid of it.....could be more logical than other theories..... Well, Who was Duane referring to when he mentioned Gresham and knowing someone there who worked in a nursing home or retirement home? At the time the statement was made was the afternoon of the day Duane disappeared for 5 1/2 hours from The Dalles and came back to the room soiled. He put my luggage in the car and then washed up. Duane perhaps paying Tina a visit in 1979 is NOT just speculation. The ex-wife of the days 1962 to 1972 worked for a CREDIT card company. She lived not too far from where Tina was living when she got her divorce. WHAT IF the ex contacted Duane (I know the two of them made contact in 1976 because I put him on the plane to see her so he could wash her out of his hair). Read Max's book. Then read the letters Max and I exchanged if and when I ever get up the nerve to publish them. She waited over 5 yrs after she thought Duane had died - to recontact MAX in a phone call after tipping the bottle a few times too many. There is more I have to say on this but I will be sure I have the communication notes in hand, so NO one can say I said or she said this one time and then something else another time. As I have said my memory is starting to elude me as time takes over, but the material I have will survive me and my daughters know who to turn all of it over to. Definitely not the FBI, but some one who might someday be able to piece this CRAP together. Some one who I hope will still be alive if and when documents are ever made available. A man who treasure the United States of America - his motto was DO NO HARM! Now there is even a series by that name but no connection to the man of the days. This group was formed in the late 50's and I know of "errands" run up until 1973. - This group was made up of men who were thought to be deceased, excons and others able to infiltrate the Mafia and the Unions. He warned individuals about an attempt that was going to be made on Kennedy. Kennedy either did NOT get the message or he was a risk taker. I believe he did NOT get the message! This group was at Dealey Plaza on that faithful day - hoping to prevent the assinations, but they were UNARMED....supposedly. There was a clip that got out never intended to ever be seen by anyone, but it was briefly on TV and then - NEVER EVER seen or heard about again. I tried to get a copy - but it had been removed. It was tape that had never been seen before. Of course the good ole US Goverment has the tape now or they destroyed it. I happened to be watching TV on that night but did NOT have the ability to record it - and NOW it has been deleted from history. I made a frantic phone call to a friend, but he was unable to ever get the clip. In the clip there was a man on the mound with a hat on and an overcoat over his LEFT arm. I thought I recognized the man, but I needed to see a still or a copy of the clip. IT was removed from existence. Someone had made it public and it went POOF! Instantly. This was since 2007! I briefly discussed this in the thread - but everyone thought I was crazy and delusional and OFF my rocker! NO one ever produced the clip for viewing. I do not know if I disclosed the details of why I wanted that clip, but I am now. I am tired of this so called AMERICAN way of keeping secrets. The man who created this group of guys - infiltrated the Unions, the Mafia and the criminal world where NO others could have gone. Yet, he rubbed shoulders with presidents, governor and some very wealthy and influencial people in his life. The CIA or secret service would not have ever have made it past first base. These guys did! They were guys NO one gave a damn about - but, some of them became very productive citizens and their backgrounds kept them safe....some didn't make it. Some used the abilities they acquired for the wrong reasons and others were able to make new lives with new identies and good jobs. WELL, it makes a good story doesn't it Georger? Jo is old and she is a dead woman anyway. Who is going to believe ONE damn word she says. What I have written above I am now doing because of the other individual claiming some things about the 60's - is someone out there like myself was expose to a few things, but he doesn't know who the connector is...or even why he thinks he knows some things. Maybe I PLANTED them! Now when you guys unravel this I won't be alive or give a RATS ass. Do I sound like Knoss - in a way I am sure I do to some of you at this point! It is all about SECRETS - why the hell do any of you think Carr chose the name Ckret? So - I am completely off my Rocker, Delusion and Crazy. The FBI and the Government finally got their DAMN wish other than they hoped I would up and die. I tried doing it their WAY and NOW I will do it MY WAY - if it KILLS ME! I tried to say away from the covert shit - but, it keeps coming up and right back at me!Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ParrotheadVol 70 #41769 July 30, 2013 377 Quote I would love to have one. I would proudly display it right next to my autographed pic of Pete Rose. Someday maybe. Did you have to make a bet with Pete to get his signature?377 Nope. Here is the pic of him signing it. I have this picture on my facebook page and the caption reads: "Me getting to meet one of Baseballs greats and one of my favorite players of all time, Pete Rose. It looks like he's signing an autograph, but he's actually helping me with my parlay picks." Back to the Cooper 20, I know Ingram has sold several of them. Any guess as to how many he has left?"They were saying he was never gonna make it now, now that daylight had set in. But later that night, they were shining those lights back down on that mountain again." - Todd Snider Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites georger 197 #41770 July 30, 2013 *The possibility of three bundles of the ransom being found at Tina Bar is a myth? *But what IS known is the amount found on the river. And that amount adds up to MORE than a single bundle. This was my point when I questioned the idea of the money just washing up there, Quote Both of yours stared above are False. The myth covered by Sluggo is that Cooper offered 3 bundles to Tina then stuff 3 bundles in his coat pocket. Read Sluggo's statement below, again. Maybe you will get this right next time? Your second myth: The actual amount recovered by Ingram, the actual number of bills, has never been ascertained to my knowledge. A full and final accounting of serial numbers identified has never been published by the FBI, if it exists at all! Ingram and I and others discussed this at length... because its rather important to know the number of deposits, their locations, the amounts involved, in order to extrapolate back to how much money might have been at Tina by some date certain, by some means. Again you need to go back and read the Thread. It came as a surprise to Brian when he sent his money to the auction company, a restorationist at the auction company noticed small fragments of serial numbers previously missed by the FBI. Those serial numbers matched serial numbers from the FBI's original list but not previously evident in the Ingram bills. Very likely the insurance company's bills would reveal new serial numbers, or parts of previously unoticed serial numbers also. $5800 is only one lowball estimate of the Ingram find. Obviously it was more than $5800. Further fragments were lost at the Ingram apartment during the cleaning process. Further fragments and goo containing decomposed money was found at Tina Bar. The Galen Cook discovery adds still more to the count. And there are other accounts of money fragments which are still unresolved. So contrary to your uninformed claim, the actual amount that was "found" at Tina Bar is not known ... only a ballpark estimate is know and that estimate is something in excess of $5800 and 3 bundles, it is thought. All $5800 establishes is a static point in time in which money was decomposing and natural forces were working, at which point Brian Ingram intervened to stop the natural process in February of 1980. To my knowledge, Tom Kaye and you are the only persons to ever suggest that the money at Tina Bar was something other than the result of a natural process. Since the money came to Earth in 1971, we presume, the money was part of the natural environment and natural processes from Nov 24th 1971, until some it is found at Tina Bar in 1980. If this is true, then the $5800 socalled at Tina Bar was the net result of natural forces from the time it separated from Cooper. And if it is more than $5800 then we are talking about a larger (set of natural forces) at work over time probably connecting different geography. Even Palmer thought the money had arrived on Tina Bar by natural means from somewhere but had a prior natural history. Yours is simply an uninformed speculation you use, as Sluggo politely tried to point out. ~~~ Porteous: Stewardess Tina Mucklow testified that Cooper tried to hand her three packets of the ransom money, and that she refused it. Does anyone know whether he secured the money back into the money bag, or did he put it somewhere else after she refused it? Walker: First, I’m not really sure it was offered to Mucklow alone. It may have been offered to all three cabin attendants or to Mucklow and Schaffner together (Alice Hancock probably was already off the plane). The bag was open (it had no zipper or other method of closure) and he had not yet sealed it with parachute cord or attached to his body. Therefore, I can’t imagine why he would put the money anywhere other than back into the bag it came from. Porteous: Along that same line, do you think these packets could be the same three packets that were found on the river in Vancouver, Washington in 1980? Walker: I don’t see any evidence to support that theory. To make that assumption would be pure (unsupported) speculation. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skyjack71 0 #41771 July 30, 2013 No one asked Jo Weber for anything. She moves slowly now so it take a while, but they never did ask. Yet, Weber was the ONLY valid suspect ever. What they need. The letter from The NIGHT clerk and his communication with Magie Boule. 1.The pictures of WEBER and ask Roy Rose if he is still living to take the Composite and match the before and after pics of Weber. Add the side burns and give him a head full of hair instead of a close prison cut and give him some lower teeth. Put that side by side with the Composit. 2. The before and after pics surrounding the Jefferson prison intake the FBI so skillfully made sure I did NOT see 17 yrs ago and then again in 2006 when Carr denied me the Jefferson Pics. 3. Is it because they couldn't find them? Well, how the hell did Shutter find them? 4. Why did Weber tell his wife "I'mmmm Dan Cooooper" - she had not idea who Dan Cooper was. 5. A copy of the hospital records for when Weber was arrested for trying to obtain a Drivers License under another name (John C. Collins). The the actually drivers license he had already obtained in the State of Fl only one day before they arreste him (he again BEAT the SYSTEM). 6. An explanation from the FBI as to why they ignored Weber's Ms file and the driver's license under that name. 7. A copy of Duane's San Quentin file showing he had a scar on his hand exactly where Tina said Cooper had a scar. Seven is a good number unless someone can add something to that list and see that the FBI & the Museum gets it! Proof! Jo has more PROOF on WEBER than any suspect ever presented - but the FBI and the STATE of WA wants Weber to GO away. JT tells every one Jo is a liar and fantasy story teller - perhaps JT was part of the DO NO HARM bunch. I supposedly made all of this SHIT up. HEY! This girl is not that smart. I saw the ticket. I saw the bank bag all clean and crisp folded in the console...and the name of the bank on it. Duane Weber left a book in a safe deposit box unknown to the widow. A magazine with the article showing a man jumping with a barrel between his legs and I actually think that is how WEBER took the money down. Tina claimed he was tying the package around his waist (he anchored the package to his waist but with some slack in the rope). Cooper used more than ONE anchor to himself....aways have a back-up. I had a canvas satchel with a long handle that Himmelsbach told me WAS NOT anything resembling what Cooper had, yet the CO-pilot said the money was put in a satchel with a strap. Just like the satchel I got rid of. Mr. H said it was not part of the crime and there was a good chance I could have retrived it from the charity I donated it to or have bought it back with a nice donation. Bet that museum would NOT want to present the pics of a dead man who was still alive yrs after he supposedly died...Duane's good friend. How about the MOUSE? Or perhaps a watch Cooper might have worn. Yet, using a secret door to a house a suspect lived in and one that did NOT even come close to the description of Cooper is appropriate. WHY not the MOUSE and the WATCH? How about a Cook Book that might put Cooper (duh - Weber) on the damn plane. A cookbook that came from the place Tina was born and raised! Only 3000 copies and I know where 3 of them are or where until the author died a few yrs ago. All three were in FL - 3 out of 3000 old cook books ended up in FL. How about another Cook Book - one that was contributed to by the locals in WA and ID and OR. One of the contributors was a woman in Mt. St Helens, OR who was the artist and a place Duane said he knew a woman who lived there. Why not a picture of the OLD Cooper boys - from Mt. St. Helens, OR...who were questioned after the crime. Include ALL the suspects or NONE at ALL! Best of all - use the Jefferson intake photos and then surround it with all of the before and afters of Weber showing a stronger chin with one BLK & WHT composite buried in the surrounding pics - FIND out what the PUBLIC thinks!Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites BobKnoss 0 #41772 July 30, 2013 Because you were all ASKED to do that. That's why. COMPLICITY AFTER THE FACT. Aught to be good for 8-10 in Federal lock-up. No time off for good behavior from the feds. You does the crime, you pays the time. They don't fool around like they used to. The guys would like to see a new fish like you stroll in. (Drool) Jim told me the whole thing. Gunna call him a liar?????? Guess not, huh. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites 377 20 #41773 July 30, 2013 Jo wroteQuoteYet, Weber was the ONLY valid suspect ever Jo, Don't you think that is a biased overstatement? 377 PS: I really liked Meyer Louie's and Robert 99's Tena Bar site visit. Finally a break in personal attacks and a return to real feet on the ground investigation. How refreshing and uplifting.2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites georger 197 #41774 July 30, 2013 For example, how long could the money have existed in the state it was found, assuming that Cooper was killed and that's how the money ended up there somehow? Nine years between hijacking and money find. Kaye and his folks say no way on that, from their analysis of the remaining bills. Kaye even tells Geoff Gray for his book that he believes the money arrived at Tina Bar by 'non-natural means'. Quote Myths vs Facts: Kaye's assertion of arrival by non-natural means has nothing to do with his analysis of the bills as you assert. On his website Kaye does make an association between the 'time of arrival' he thinks the money arrived at Tina Bar and a 'deterioration timeline for the rubber bands' he has constructed, but he does not use that to support a theory of 'arrival by non natural means'. Tom's only support for 'arrived by non natural means' is the flight path. That has nothing to with his analysis of the bills. You can read that here http://www.citizensleuths.com/flightpath.html under MoneyFind/Flight Path Analysis. So I don't know where you are getting 'Kaye says non natural means from his analysis of the remaining bills'. That doesn't exist! It's a conclusion you or Gray made. On a personal note* Your use of my email address on your LinkedIn account has been terminated. You are NOT entitled to use my email address for any purpose. IS THAT CLEAR! ? Who else's private email addresses from Dropzone users are you using for your private use? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites georger 197 #41775 July 30, 2013 377Jo wroteQuoteYet, Weber was the ONLY valid suspect ever Jo, Don't you think that is a biased overstatement? 377 PS: I really liked Meyer Louie's and Robert 99's Tena Bar site visit. Finally a break in personal attacks and a return to real feet on the ground investigation. How refreshing and uplifting. Nice public stance. Can I link your email address to my LinkedIn account for ads? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1666 1667 1668 1669 1670 1671 1672 1673 1674 1675 1676 Next Page 1671 of 2540 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. 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georger 197 #41759 July 29, 2013 RobertMBlevins Really, Georger. Your point is moot beyond belief. When Blast came out, Sluggo would undoubtably have asked his interview be removed from it. He was completely against the book, which is his perfect right. Blast does polarize people sometimes. Some think we hit the nail on the head, others think we didn't. What can you do about that? Nothing. So what do you want from me exactly? Should I spend the money to put it back in...and then have Sluggo contact me to remove it? Or is Sluggo telling you now he's seen the KC report, and the Revised Edition and wants his interview now included because he thinks KC is now a legit suspect? What's your point? If he's saying that now, he should contact me and maybe I will add him to the book if he wishes. But he will have to sign a release if he wants this, because I'm not spending the money to do it if he's going to turn around and say 'take it out' a week later, LOL. I don't have a problem with you posting it up. Maybe it should be seen, since it was never going into the book and would have been taken out later anyway. Or whatever. Your point keeps escaping me... Quote Well Bobert, I dont care what you want or think. As I keep saying (but you're not listening!) ... the Sluggo Interview is important and stands on it's own. Sluggo's interview with Porteous is NOT ABOUT YOU! So you can hang out a flag, make tortillas, smoke a joint, hoist iron lawn chairs over your head, or milk a goat ... so far as I care. NEW post on Sluggo Interview coming up whether you like/want it or not! This thread is about RobertMBlevins ... ooops ... I mean DB Cooper! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georger 197 #41760 July 29, 2013 RobertMBlevins Really, Georger. Your point is moot beyond belief. Quote The point is: Sluggo says, "3 bundles of money" is myth, and not fact. 3 bundles of money never existed! I will explain why this matters. (Blevins and to some extent Tom Kaye have been using the myth of 3 bundles of money for years ignoring and dissmissing all pleas to STOP! 3 bundles of money is Blevinstown Kool Aid gospel.) Porteous and Sluggo say: Porteous: Stewardess Tina Mucklow testified that Cooper tried to hand her three packets of the ransom money, and that she refused it. Does anyone know whether he secured the money back into the money bag, or did he put it somewhere else after she refused it? Walker: First, I’m not really sure it was offered to Mucklow alone. It may have been offered to all three cabin attendants or to Mucklow and Schaffner together (Alice Hancock probably was already off the plane). The bag was open (it had no zipper or other method of closure) and he had not yet sealed it with parachute cord or attached to his body. Therefore, I can’t imagine why he would put the money anywhere other than back into the bag it came from. Porteous: Along that same line, do you think these packets could be the same three packets that were found on the river in Vancouver, Washington in 1980? Walker: I don’t see any evidence to support that theory. To make that assumption would be pure (unsupported) speculation. So, fact or MYTH ? 1: Tina Mucklow testified that Cooper tried to hand her three packets of the ransom money, [Did Tina specify three packets? Where is this socalled tesimony documented? All Tina said was that he Cooper was fondling the money in the bag and brought up "a group of money and took some" and offered it to her and Schaffner. Schaffner declined and Tina replied: 'We arent allowed to take tips'! Nowhere in this is three bundles or packets of money even mentioned!] 2: Cooper put the three bundles/packets into his coat pocket. [There is no testimony which says or even implies that - there is no testimony about this at all!] 3: The 3 bundles offered Tina is the same 3 bundles found at Tina Bar. [There is no tesimony 3 bundles were offered Tina. There is no evidence only 3 bundles were in situ at Tina Bar. There is multiple evidence more than 3 bundles were in situ at Tina Bar and after testing Ingram's portion alone turned out to be more than originally thought or alloted. Everyone including Ingram believes money was on top of what Ingram found and had been eroded and swept away prior to Ingram making his find. And the testimony of every single witness supports that conclusion, to one extent or another!] Why is this important? Because MYTHS lead to one set of conclusions. FACTS lead to another set of conclusions. The facts don't support the Kaye-Blevins conclusion that the Ingram find represents 3 bundles of money supposedly offered Tina then stuffed into Cooper's pocket, which he lost somewhere on the way down or he buried at Tina Bar! The facts support an alluvial-erosion story: the idea that more than $5800 represents the actual amount in the Ingram find, something more than 3 bundles were in residence on Tina Bar prior to the Ingram find, and given the very active nature of Tina Bar (erosion and flood events etc) that much more than $5800 was originally on Tina Bar, of which the Ingram and other finds represent survivors ... not the original deposit(s). The facts support a multiple deposit and erosion sequence which supports natural forces being responsible for the total deposit(s) in the first place. That is the POINT!, Mr. Blevins. FACTS vs MYTHS. Truth vs Myth. Are we here to research DB Cooper or worship your quick comeback personality as MYTH? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georger 197 #41761 July 29, 2013 Geez...who got up on the wrong side of the bed? Quote Beds has nothing to do with your use of MYTHS over FACTS. You and Porteous HAD Sluggo's interview and instead of sharing it with anyone, chose to concel it, until Sluggo published it himself... then you surfaced with excuses/reasons. You always resort to something "personal". Geestman is a liar you say - and explode over! You even include "That Woman - the harlot of Begonia"! Your whole PERSONAL MYTH FACTORY is down the toilet. Three years wasted for your benefit. That is the true story of your Cooperland ... write it up. Please FLUSH! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites georger 197 #41762 July 29, 2013 RobertMBlevins You're going to have to explain to me how MORE than one bundle of the ransom ended up in the same spot Nope - enough time wasted on you - read your Sluggo interview. Or get it from somebody else. Then claim it as your own. *You were told to read the thread many times, early. You might want to go back and read the thread. It's all there prior to you and 2010. From me and others. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mrshutter45 21 #41763 July 29, 2013 "She stopped speaking to the media completely before, in about 1979 or 1980, entering the Maria Regina Convent, a Carmelite Catholic nunnery outside Eugene, Oregon." Long shot.... what if she did accept the money? possibly eating her up and decides to get rid of it.....could be more logical than other theories....."It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites 377 20 #41764 July 29, 2013 WA State History Museum wrote asking if I would lend my Cooper twenty for display in their Cooper exibit. Of course I said yes. It doesnt get out much and undoubtedly is tired of my constant interrogations. A trip back to the hood will do it good. 3772018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites georger 197 #41765 July 29, 2013 Sluggo This doesn't sound like a guy who was pissed off because his interview didn't make the book, does it? And as I said, Sluggo's website is linked on our own pages as the best source of solid info on the Cooper case. You are WAY off base and the pitcher picked you off easily. In fact, Sluggo is first in line where we point out resources people should consult. Here's his entry at AB: Quote Sluggo pissed off? Thats an emotion. You mind meld with Sluggo? Another straw man. I didnt say he was pissed off. Another straw man. I dont have the faintest idea what his emotions were. For all your vaunting of Sluggo's expertise and linking his wesbite none of it sunk it with you personally. You have been citing 3-bundles and other MYTHS and defending them vociferously for three years. Thats not a straw man but a FACT. Gayla did the editing! What makes her a Cooper expert? Is she? Im glad you keep mentioning Gayla. Ive said all along yours is a joint venture here on Dropzone. Now we know she edited a Cooper book, for content! Point is: its the CONTENT of Sluggo's interview that matters. Goes to FACTS vs MYTH in the Cooper case vs. the myths you have been arguing/promoting for three years bashing everyone over the head with it ........ ALL BECAUSE YOU AGREE WITH SLUGGO AND THINK HE'S THE BEST RELIABLE SOURCE ON COOPER GOING! Did you know we discussed bringing Sluggo on board with the Science Team? Tell us about that since you know all - And we havent even touched on the Flight Path and other central issues. Maybe your and Gayla's BOOK colored everything and did not dispose you to looking for facts vs myths or doing any real research? But I dont have to defend Sluggo. Sluggo is more than competent to defend himself! Sluggo would judge this (and me) to be a total waste of time. Sluggos' concern is facts vs myths and the consequences myth generates in the public's mind. And the historical role of myth in the Cooper saga, beginning with law enforcement people ... Meanwhile money settled in at Tina Bar, for better or for worse. So far its all been for the worse! Maybe if we can clear enough myth makers out of the way, some facts might emerge? What do you think - Gayla ? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ParrotheadVol 70 #41766 July 29, 2013 377WA State History Museum wrote asking if I would lend my Cooper twenty for display in their Cooper exibit. Of course I said yes. It doesnt get out much and undoubtedly is tired of my constant interrogations. A trip back to the hood will do it good. 377 I would love to have one. I would proudly display it right next to my autographed pic of Pete Rose. Someday maybe. Blevins, you're not the only one to get the cover wrong. Skyjack had Cooper still wearing a tie."They were saying he was never gonna make it now, now that daylight had set in. But later that night, they were shining those lights back down on that mountain again." - Todd Snider Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites 377 20 #41767 July 29, 2013 Quote I would love to have one. I would proudly display it right next to my autographed pic of Pete Rose. Someday maybe. Did you have to make a bet with Pete to get his signature?3772018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skyjack71 0 #41768 July 30, 2013 mrshutter45"She stopped speaking to the media completely before, in about 1979 or 1980, entering the Maria Regina Convent, a Carmelite Catholic nunnery outside Eugene, Oregon." Long shot.... what if she did accept the money? possibly eating her up and decides to get rid of it.....could be more logical than other theories..... Well, Who was Duane referring to when he mentioned Gresham and knowing someone there who worked in a nursing home or retirement home? At the time the statement was made was the afternoon of the day Duane disappeared for 5 1/2 hours from The Dalles and came back to the room soiled. He put my luggage in the car and then washed up. Duane perhaps paying Tina a visit in 1979 is NOT just speculation. The ex-wife of the days 1962 to 1972 worked for a CREDIT card company. She lived not too far from where Tina was living when she got her divorce. WHAT IF the ex contacted Duane (I know the two of them made contact in 1976 because I put him on the plane to see her so he could wash her out of his hair). Read Max's book. Then read the letters Max and I exchanged if and when I ever get up the nerve to publish them. She waited over 5 yrs after she thought Duane had died - to recontact MAX in a phone call after tipping the bottle a few times too many. There is more I have to say on this but I will be sure I have the communication notes in hand, so NO one can say I said or she said this one time and then something else another time. As I have said my memory is starting to elude me as time takes over, but the material I have will survive me and my daughters know who to turn all of it over to. Definitely not the FBI, but some one who might someday be able to piece this CRAP together. Some one who I hope will still be alive if and when documents are ever made available. A man who treasure the United States of America - his motto was DO NO HARM! Now there is even a series by that name but no connection to the man of the days. This group was formed in the late 50's and I know of "errands" run up until 1973. - This group was made up of men who were thought to be deceased, excons and others able to infiltrate the Mafia and the Unions. He warned individuals about an attempt that was going to be made on Kennedy. Kennedy either did NOT get the message or he was a risk taker. I believe he did NOT get the message! This group was at Dealey Plaza on that faithful day - hoping to prevent the assinations, but they were UNARMED....supposedly. There was a clip that got out never intended to ever be seen by anyone, but it was briefly on TV and then - NEVER EVER seen or heard about again. I tried to get a copy - but it had been removed. It was tape that had never been seen before. Of course the good ole US Goverment has the tape now or they destroyed it. I happened to be watching TV on that night but did NOT have the ability to record it - and NOW it has been deleted from history. I made a frantic phone call to a friend, but he was unable to ever get the clip. In the clip there was a man on the mound with a hat on and an overcoat over his LEFT arm. I thought I recognized the man, but I needed to see a still or a copy of the clip. IT was removed from existence. Someone had made it public and it went POOF! Instantly. This was since 2007! I briefly discussed this in the thread - but everyone thought I was crazy and delusional and OFF my rocker! NO one ever produced the clip for viewing. I do not know if I disclosed the details of why I wanted that clip, but I am now. I am tired of this so called AMERICAN way of keeping secrets. The man who created this group of guys - infiltrated the Unions, the Mafia and the criminal world where NO others could have gone. Yet, he rubbed shoulders with presidents, governor and some very wealthy and influencial people in his life. The CIA or secret service would not have ever have made it past first base. These guys did! They were guys NO one gave a damn about - but, some of them became very productive citizens and their backgrounds kept them safe....some didn't make it. Some used the abilities they acquired for the wrong reasons and others were able to make new lives with new identies and good jobs. WELL, it makes a good story doesn't it Georger? Jo is old and she is a dead woman anyway. Who is going to believe ONE damn word she says. What I have written above I am now doing because of the other individual claiming some things about the 60's - is someone out there like myself was expose to a few things, but he doesn't know who the connector is...or even why he thinks he knows some things. Maybe I PLANTED them! Now when you guys unravel this I won't be alive or give a RATS ass. Do I sound like Knoss - in a way I am sure I do to some of you at this point! It is all about SECRETS - why the hell do any of you think Carr chose the name Ckret? So - I am completely off my Rocker, Delusion and Crazy. The FBI and the Government finally got their DAMN wish other than they hoped I would up and die. I tried doing it their WAY and NOW I will do it MY WAY - if it KILLS ME! I tried to say away from the covert shit - but, it keeps coming up and right back at me!Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ParrotheadVol 70 #41769 July 30, 2013 377 Quote I would love to have one. I would proudly display it right next to my autographed pic of Pete Rose. Someday maybe. Did you have to make a bet with Pete to get his signature?377 Nope. Here is the pic of him signing it. I have this picture on my facebook page and the caption reads: "Me getting to meet one of Baseballs greats and one of my favorite players of all time, Pete Rose. It looks like he's signing an autograph, but he's actually helping me with my parlay picks." Back to the Cooper 20, I know Ingram has sold several of them. Any guess as to how many he has left?"They were saying he was never gonna make it now, now that daylight had set in. But later that night, they were shining those lights back down on that mountain again." - Todd Snider Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites georger 197 #41770 July 30, 2013 *The possibility of three bundles of the ransom being found at Tina Bar is a myth? *But what IS known is the amount found on the river. And that amount adds up to MORE than a single bundle. This was my point when I questioned the idea of the money just washing up there, Quote Both of yours stared above are False. The myth covered by Sluggo is that Cooper offered 3 bundles to Tina then stuff 3 bundles in his coat pocket. Read Sluggo's statement below, again. Maybe you will get this right next time? Your second myth: The actual amount recovered by Ingram, the actual number of bills, has never been ascertained to my knowledge. A full and final accounting of serial numbers identified has never been published by the FBI, if it exists at all! Ingram and I and others discussed this at length... because its rather important to know the number of deposits, their locations, the amounts involved, in order to extrapolate back to how much money might have been at Tina by some date certain, by some means. Again you need to go back and read the Thread. It came as a surprise to Brian when he sent his money to the auction company, a restorationist at the auction company noticed small fragments of serial numbers previously missed by the FBI. Those serial numbers matched serial numbers from the FBI's original list but not previously evident in the Ingram bills. Very likely the insurance company's bills would reveal new serial numbers, or parts of previously unoticed serial numbers also. $5800 is only one lowball estimate of the Ingram find. Obviously it was more than $5800. Further fragments were lost at the Ingram apartment during the cleaning process. Further fragments and goo containing decomposed money was found at Tina Bar. The Galen Cook discovery adds still more to the count. And there are other accounts of money fragments which are still unresolved. So contrary to your uninformed claim, the actual amount that was "found" at Tina Bar is not known ... only a ballpark estimate is know and that estimate is something in excess of $5800 and 3 bundles, it is thought. All $5800 establishes is a static point in time in which money was decomposing and natural forces were working, at which point Brian Ingram intervened to stop the natural process in February of 1980. To my knowledge, Tom Kaye and you are the only persons to ever suggest that the money at Tina Bar was something other than the result of a natural process. Since the money came to Earth in 1971, we presume, the money was part of the natural environment and natural processes from Nov 24th 1971, until some it is found at Tina Bar in 1980. If this is true, then the $5800 socalled at Tina Bar was the net result of natural forces from the time it separated from Cooper. And if it is more than $5800 then we are talking about a larger (set of natural forces) at work over time probably connecting different geography. Even Palmer thought the money had arrived on Tina Bar by natural means from somewhere but had a prior natural history. Yours is simply an uninformed speculation you use, as Sluggo politely tried to point out. ~~~ Porteous: Stewardess Tina Mucklow testified that Cooper tried to hand her three packets of the ransom money, and that she refused it. Does anyone know whether he secured the money back into the money bag, or did he put it somewhere else after she refused it? Walker: First, I’m not really sure it was offered to Mucklow alone. It may have been offered to all three cabin attendants or to Mucklow and Schaffner together (Alice Hancock probably was already off the plane). The bag was open (it had no zipper or other method of closure) and he had not yet sealed it with parachute cord or attached to his body. Therefore, I can’t imagine why he would put the money anywhere other than back into the bag it came from. Porteous: Along that same line, do you think these packets could be the same three packets that were found on the river in Vancouver, Washington in 1980? Walker: I don’t see any evidence to support that theory. To make that assumption would be pure (unsupported) speculation. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skyjack71 0 #41771 July 30, 2013 No one asked Jo Weber for anything. She moves slowly now so it take a while, but they never did ask. Yet, Weber was the ONLY valid suspect ever. What they need. The letter from The NIGHT clerk and his communication with Magie Boule. 1.The pictures of WEBER and ask Roy Rose if he is still living to take the Composite and match the before and after pics of Weber. Add the side burns and give him a head full of hair instead of a close prison cut and give him some lower teeth. Put that side by side with the Composit. 2. The before and after pics surrounding the Jefferson prison intake the FBI so skillfully made sure I did NOT see 17 yrs ago and then again in 2006 when Carr denied me the Jefferson Pics. 3. Is it because they couldn't find them? Well, how the hell did Shutter find them? 4. Why did Weber tell his wife "I'mmmm Dan Cooooper" - she had not idea who Dan Cooper was. 5. A copy of the hospital records for when Weber was arrested for trying to obtain a Drivers License under another name (John C. Collins). The the actually drivers license he had already obtained in the State of Fl only one day before they arreste him (he again BEAT the SYSTEM). 6. An explanation from the FBI as to why they ignored Weber's Ms file and the driver's license under that name. 7. A copy of Duane's San Quentin file showing he had a scar on his hand exactly where Tina said Cooper had a scar. Seven is a good number unless someone can add something to that list and see that the FBI & the Museum gets it! Proof! Jo has more PROOF on WEBER than any suspect ever presented - but the FBI and the STATE of WA wants Weber to GO away. JT tells every one Jo is a liar and fantasy story teller - perhaps JT was part of the DO NO HARM bunch. I supposedly made all of this SHIT up. HEY! This girl is not that smart. I saw the ticket. I saw the bank bag all clean and crisp folded in the console...and the name of the bank on it. Duane Weber left a book in a safe deposit box unknown to the widow. A magazine with the article showing a man jumping with a barrel between his legs and I actually think that is how WEBER took the money down. Tina claimed he was tying the package around his waist (he anchored the package to his waist but with some slack in the rope). Cooper used more than ONE anchor to himself....aways have a back-up. I had a canvas satchel with a long handle that Himmelsbach told me WAS NOT anything resembling what Cooper had, yet the CO-pilot said the money was put in a satchel with a strap. Just like the satchel I got rid of. Mr. H said it was not part of the crime and there was a good chance I could have retrived it from the charity I donated it to or have bought it back with a nice donation. Bet that museum would NOT want to present the pics of a dead man who was still alive yrs after he supposedly died...Duane's good friend. How about the MOUSE? Or perhaps a watch Cooper might have worn. Yet, using a secret door to a house a suspect lived in and one that did NOT even come close to the description of Cooper is appropriate. WHY not the MOUSE and the WATCH? How about a Cook Book that might put Cooper (duh - Weber) on the damn plane. A cookbook that came from the place Tina was born and raised! Only 3000 copies and I know where 3 of them are or where until the author died a few yrs ago. All three were in FL - 3 out of 3000 old cook books ended up in FL. How about another Cook Book - one that was contributed to by the locals in WA and ID and OR. One of the contributors was a woman in Mt. St Helens, OR who was the artist and a place Duane said he knew a woman who lived there. Why not a picture of the OLD Cooper boys - from Mt. St. Helens, OR...who were questioned after the crime. Include ALL the suspects or NONE at ALL! Best of all - use the Jefferson intake photos and then surround it with all of the before and afters of Weber showing a stronger chin with one BLK & WHT composite buried in the surrounding pics - FIND out what the PUBLIC thinks!Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites BobKnoss 0 #41772 July 30, 2013 Because you were all ASKED to do that. That's why. COMPLICITY AFTER THE FACT. Aught to be good for 8-10 in Federal lock-up. No time off for good behavior from the feds. You does the crime, you pays the time. They don't fool around like they used to. The guys would like to see a new fish like you stroll in. (Drool) Jim told me the whole thing. Gunna call him a liar?????? Guess not, huh. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites 377 20 #41773 July 30, 2013 Jo wroteQuoteYet, Weber was the ONLY valid suspect ever Jo, Don't you think that is a biased overstatement? 377 PS: I really liked Meyer Louie's and Robert 99's Tena Bar site visit. Finally a break in personal attacks and a return to real feet on the ground investigation. How refreshing and uplifting.2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites georger 197 #41774 July 30, 2013 For example, how long could the money have existed in the state it was found, assuming that Cooper was killed and that's how the money ended up there somehow? Nine years between hijacking and money find. Kaye and his folks say no way on that, from their analysis of the remaining bills. Kaye even tells Geoff Gray for his book that he believes the money arrived at Tina Bar by 'non-natural means'. Quote Myths vs Facts: Kaye's assertion of arrival by non-natural means has nothing to do with his analysis of the bills as you assert. On his website Kaye does make an association between the 'time of arrival' he thinks the money arrived at Tina Bar and a 'deterioration timeline for the rubber bands' he has constructed, but he does not use that to support a theory of 'arrival by non natural means'. Tom's only support for 'arrived by non natural means' is the flight path. That has nothing to with his analysis of the bills. You can read that here http://www.citizensleuths.com/flightpath.html under MoneyFind/Flight Path Analysis. So I don't know where you are getting 'Kaye says non natural means from his analysis of the remaining bills'. That doesn't exist! It's a conclusion you or Gray made. On a personal note* Your use of my email address on your LinkedIn account has been terminated. You are NOT entitled to use my email address for any purpose. IS THAT CLEAR! ? Who else's private email addresses from Dropzone users are you using for your private use? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites georger 197 #41775 July 30, 2013 377Jo wroteQuoteYet, Weber was the ONLY valid suspect ever Jo, Don't you think that is a biased overstatement? 377 PS: I really liked Meyer Louie's and Robert 99's Tena Bar site visit. Finally a break in personal attacks and a return to real feet on the ground investigation. How refreshing and uplifting. Nice public stance. Can I link your email address to my LinkedIn account for ads? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1666 1667 1668 1669 1670 1671 1672 1673 1674 1675 1676 Next Page 1671 of 2540 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 47 47 Go To Topic Listing
georger 197 #41762 July 29, 2013 RobertMBlevins You're going to have to explain to me how MORE than one bundle of the ransom ended up in the same spot Nope - enough time wasted on you - read your Sluggo interview. Or get it from somebody else. Then claim it as your own. *You were told to read the thread many times, early. You might want to go back and read the thread. It's all there prior to you and 2010. From me and others. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mrshutter45 21 #41763 July 29, 2013 "She stopped speaking to the media completely before, in about 1979 or 1980, entering the Maria Regina Convent, a Carmelite Catholic nunnery outside Eugene, Oregon." Long shot.... what if she did accept the money? possibly eating her up and decides to get rid of it.....could be more logical than other theories....."It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
377 20 #41764 July 29, 2013 WA State History Museum wrote asking if I would lend my Cooper twenty for display in their Cooper exibit. Of course I said yes. It doesnt get out much and undoubtedly is tired of my constant interrogations. A trip back to the hood will do it good. 3772018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georger 197 #41765 July 29, 2013 Sluggo This doesn't sound like a guy who was pissed off because his interview didn't make the book, does it? And as I said, Sluggo's website is linked on our own pages as the best source of solid info on the Cooper case. You are WAY off base and the pitcher picked you off easily. In fact, Sluggo is first in line where we point out resources people should consult. Here's his entry at AB: Quote Sluggo pissed off? Thats an emotion. You mind meld with Sluggo? Another straw man. I didnt say he was pissed off. Another straw man. I dont have the faintest idea what his emotions were. For all your vaunting of Sluggo's expertise and linking his wesbite none of it sunk it with you personally. You have been citing 3-bundles and other MYTHS and defending them vociferously for three years. Thats not a straw man but a FACT. Gayla did the editing! What makes her a Cooper expert? Is she? Im glad you keep mentioning Gayla. Ive said all along yours is a joint venture here on Dropzone. Now we know she edited a Cooper book, for content! Point is: its the CONTENT of Sluggo's interview that matters. Goes to FACTS vs MYTH in the Cooper case vs. the myths you have been arguing/promoting for three years bashing everyone over the head with it ........ ALL BECAUSE YOU AGREE WITH SLUGGO AND THINK HE'S THE BEST RELIABLE SOURCE ON COOPER GOING! Did you know we discussed bringing Sluggo on board with the Science Team? Tell us about that since you know all - And we havent even touched on the Flight Path and other central issues. Maybe your and Gayla's BOOK colored everything and did not dispose you to looking for facts vs myths or doing any real research? But I dont have to defend Sluggo. Sluggo is more than competent to defend himself! Sluggo would judge this (and me) to be a total waste of time. Sluggos' concern is facts vs myths and the consequences myth generates in the public's mind. And the historical role of myth in the Cooper saga, beginning with law enforcement people ... Meanwhile money settled in at Tina Bar, for better or for worse. So far its all been for the worse! Maybe if we can clear enough myth makers out of the way, some facts might emerge? What do you think - Gayla ? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ParrotheadVol 70 #41766 July 29, 2013 377WA State History Museum wrote asking if I would lend my Cooper twenty for display in their Cooper exibit. Of course I said yes. It doesnt get out much and undoubtedly is tired of my constant interrogations. A trip back to the hood will do it good. 377 I would love to have one. I would proudly display it right next to my autographed pic of Pete Rose. Someday maybe. Blevins, you're not the only one to get the cover wrong. Skyjack had Cooper still wearing a tie."They were saying he was never gonna make it now, now that daylight had set in. But later that night, they were shining those lights back down on that mountain again." - Todd Snider Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
377 20 #41767 July 29, 2013 Quote I would love to have one. I would proudly display it right next to my autographed pic of Pete Rose. Someday maybe. Did you have to make a bet with Pete to get his signature?3772018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyjack71 0 #41768 July 30, 2013 mrshutter45"She stopped speaking to the media completely before, in about 1979 or 1980, entering the Maria Regina Convent, a Carmelite Catholic nunnery outside Eugene, Oregon." Long shot.... what if she did accept the money? possibly eating her up and decides to get rid of it.....could be more logical than other theories..... Well, Who was Duane referring to when he mentioned Gresham and knowing someone there who worked in a nursing home or retirement home? At the time the statement was made was the afternoon of the day Duane disappeared for 5 1/2 hours from The Dalles and came back to the room soiled. He put my luggage in the car and then washed up. Duane perhaps paying Tina a visit in 1979 is NOT just speculation. The ex-wife of the days 1962 to 1972 worked for a CREDIT card company. She lived not too far from where Tina was living when she got her divorce. WHAT IF the ex contacted Duane (I know the two of them made contact in 1976 because I put him on the plane to see her so he could wash her out of his hair). Read Max's book. Then read the letters Max and I exchanged if and when I ever get up the nerve to publish them. She waited over 5 yrs after she thought Duane had died - to recontact MAX in a phone call after tipping the bottle a few times too many. There is more I have to say on this but I will be sure I have the communication notes in hand, so NO one can say I said or she said this one time and then something else another time. As I have said my memory is starting to elude me as time takes over, but the material I have will survive me and my daughters know who to turn all of it over to. Definitely not the FBI, but some one who might someday be able to piece this CRAP together. Some one who I hope will still be alive if and when documents are ever made available. A man who treasure the United States of America - his motto was DO NO HARM! Now there is even a series by that name but no connection to the man of the days. This group was formed in the late 50's and I know of "errands" run up until 1973. - This group was made up of men who were thought to be deceased, excons and others able to infiltrate the Mafia and the Unions. He warned individuals about an attempt that was going to be made on Kennedy. Kennedy either did NOT get the message or he was a risk taker. I believe he did NOT get the message! This group was at Dealey Plaza on that faithful day - hoping to prevent the assinations, but they were UNARMED....supposedly. There was a clip that got out never intended to ever be seen by anyone, but it was briefly on TV and then - NEVER EVER seen or heard about again. I tried to get a copy - but it had been removed. It was tape that had never been seen before. Of course the good ole US Goverment has the tape now or they destroyed it. I happened to be watching TV on that night but did NOT have the ability to record it - and NOW it has been deleted from history. I made a frantic phone call to a friend, but he was unable to ever get the clip. In the clip there was a man on the mound with a hat on and an overcoat over his LEFT arm. I thought I recognized the man, but I needed to see a still or a copy of the clip. IT was removed from existence. Someone had made it public and it went POOF! Instantly. This was since 2007! I briefly discussed this in the thread - but everyone thought I was crazy and delusional and OFF my rocker! NO one ever produced the clip for viewing. I do not know if I disclosed the details of why I wanted that clip, but I am now. I am tired of this so called AMERICAN way of keeping secrets. The man who created this group of guys - infiltrated the Unions, the Mafia and the criminal world where NO others could have gone. Yet, he rubbed shoulders with presidents, governor and some very wealthy and influencial people in his life. The CIA or secret service would not have ever have made it past first base. These guys did! They were guys NO one gave a damn about - but, some of them became very productive citizens and their backgrounds kept them safe....some didn't make it. Some used the abilities they acquired for the wrong reasons and others were able to make new lives with new identies and good jobs. WELL, it makes a good story doesn't it Georger? Jo is old and she is a dead woman anyway. Who is going to believe ONE damn word she says. What I have written above I am now doing because of the other individual claiming some things about the 60's - is someone out there like myself was expose to a few things, but he doesn't know who the connector is...or even why he thinks he knows some things. Maybe I PLANTED them! Now when you guys unravel this I won't be alive or give a RATS ass. Do I sound like Knoss - in a way I am sure I do to some of you at this point! It is all about SECRETS - why the hell do any of you think Carr chose the name Ckret? So - I am completely off my Rocker, Delusion and Crazy. The FBI and the Government finally got their DAMN wish other than they hoped I would up and die. I tried doing it their WAY and NOW I will do it MY WAY - if it KILLS ME! I tried to say away from the covert shit - but, it keeps coming up and right back at me!Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ParrotheadVol 70 #41769 July 30, 2013 377 Quote I would love to have one. I would proudly display it right next to my autographed pic of Pete Rose. Someday maybe. Did you have to make a bet with Pete to get his signature?377 Nope. Here is the pic of him signing it. I have this picture on my facebook page and the caption reads: "Me getting to meet one of Baseballs greats and one of my favorite players of all time, Pete Rose. It looks like he's signing an autograph, but he's actually helping me with my parlay picks." Back to the Cooper 20, I know Ingram has sold several of them. Any guess as to how many he has left?"They were saying he was never gonna make it now, now that daylight had set in. But later that night, they were shining those lights back down on that mountain again." - Todd Snider Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georger 197 #41770 July 30, 2013 *The possibility of three bundles of the ransom being found at Tina Bar is a myth? *But what IS known is the amount found on the river. And that amount adds up to MORE than a single bundle. This was my point when I questioned the idea of the money just washing up there, Quote Both of yours stared above are False. The myth covered by Sluggo is that Cooper offered 3 bundles to Tina then stuff 3 bundles in his coat pocket. Read Sluggo's statement below, again. Maybe you will get this right next time? Your second myth: The actual amount recovered by Ingram, the actual number of bills, has never been ascertained to my knowledge. A full and final accounting of serial numbers identified has never been published by the FBI, if it exists at all! Ingram and I and others discussed this at length... because its rather important to know the number of deposits, their locations, the amounts involved, in order to extrapolate back to how much money might have been at Tina by some date certain, by some means. Again you need to go back and read the Thread. It came as a surprise to Brian when he sent his money to the auction company, a restorationist at the auction company noticed small fragments of serial numbers previously missed by the FBI. Those serial numbers matched serial numbers from the FBI's original list but not previously evident in the Ingram bills. Very likely the insurance company's bills would reveal new serial numbers, or parts of previously unoticed serial numbers also. $5800 is only one lowball estimate of the Ingram find. Obviously it was more than $5800. Further fragments were lost at the Ingram apartment during the cleaning process. Further fragments and goo containing decomposed money was found at Tina Bar. The Galen Cook discovery adds still more to the count. And there are other accounts of money fragments which are still unresolved. So contrary to your uninformed claim, the actual amount that was "found" at Tina Bar is not known ... only a ballpark estimate is know and that estimate is something in excess of $5800 and 3 bundles, it is thought. All $5800 establishes is a static point in time in which money was decomposing and natural forces were working, at which point Brian Ingram intervened to stop the natural process in February of 1980. To my knowledge, Tom Kaye and you are the only persons to ever suggest that the money at Tina Bar was something other than the result of a natural process. Since the money came to Earth in 1971, we presume, the money was part of the natural environment and natural processes from Nov 24th 1971, until some it is found at Tina Bar in 1980. If this is true, then the $5800 socalled at Tina Bar was the net result of natural forces from the time it separated from Cooper. And if it is more than $5800 then we are talking about a larger (set of natural forces) at work over time probably connecting different geography. Even Palmer thought the money had arrived on Tina Bar by natural means from somewhere but had a prior natural history. Yours is simply an uninformed speculation you use, as Sluggo politely tried to point out. ~~~ Porteous: Stewardess Tina Mucklow testified that Cooper tried to hand her three packets of the ransom money, and that she refused it. Does anyone know whether he secured the money back into the money bag, or did he put it somewhere else after she refused it? Walker: First, I’m not really sure it was offered to Mucklow alone. It may have been offered to all three cabin attendants or to Mucklow and Schaffner together (Alice Hancock probably was already off the plane). The bag was open (it had no zipper or other method of closure) and he had not yet sealed it with parachute cord or attached to his body. Therefore, I can’t imagine why he would put the money anywhere other than back into the bag it came from. Porteous: Along that same line, do you think these packets could be the same three packets that were found on the river in Vancouver, Washington in 1980? Walker: I don’t see any evidence to support that theory. To make that assumption would be pure (unsupported) speculation. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skyjack71 0 #41771 July 30, 2013 No one asked Jo Weber for anything. She moves slowly now so it take a while, but they never did ask. Yet, Weber was the ONLY valid suspect ever. What they need. The letter from The NIGHT clerk and his communication with Magie Boule. 1.The pictures of WEBER and ask Roy Rose if he is still living to take the Composite and match the before and after pics of Weber. Add the side burns and give him a head full of hair instead of a close prison cut and give him some lower teeth. Put that side by side with the Composit. 2. The before and after pics surrounding the Jefferson prison intake the FBI so skillfully made sure I did NOT see 17 yrs ago and then again in 2006 when Carr denied me the Jefferson Pics. 3. Is it because they couldn't find them? Well, how the hell did Shutter find them? 4. Why did Weber tell his wife "I'mmmm Dan Cooooper" - she had not idea who Dan Cooper was. 5. A copy of the hospital records for when Weber was arrested for trying to obtain a Drivers License under another name (John C. Collins). The the actually drivers license he had already obtained in the State of Fl only one day before they arreste him (he again BEAT the SYSTEM). 6. An explanation from the FBI as to why they ignored Weber's Ms file and the driver's license under that name. 7. A copy of Duane's San Quentin file showing he had a scar on his hand exactly where Tina said Cooper had a scar. Seven is a good number unless someone can add something to that list and see that the FBI & the Museum gets it! Proof! Jo has more PROOF on WEBER than any suspect ever presented - but the FBI and the STATE of WA wants Weber to GO away. JT tells every one Jo is a liar and fantasy story teller - perhaps JT was part of the DO NO HARM bunch. I supposedly made all of this SHIT up. HEY! This girl is not that smart. I saw the ticket. I saw the bank bag all clean and crisp folded in the console...and the name of the bank on it. Duane Weber left a book in a safe deposit box unknown to the widow. A magazine with the article showing a man jumping with a barrel between his legs and I actually think that is how WEBER took the money down. Tina claimed he was tying the package around his waist (he anchored the package to his waist but with some slack in the rope). Cooper used more than ONE anchor to himself....aways have a back-up. I had a canvas satchel with a long handle that Himmelsbach told me WAS NOT anything resembling what Cooper had, yet the CO-pilot said the money was put in a satchel with a strap. Just like the satchel I got rid of. Mr. H said it was not part of the crime and there was a good chance I could have retrived it from the charity I donated it to or have bought it back with a nice donation. Bet that museum would NOT want to present the pics of a dead man who was still alive yrs after he supposedly died...Duane's good friend. How about the MOUSE? Or perhaps a watch Cooper might have worn. Yet, using a secret door to a house a suspect lived in and one that did NOT even come close to the description of Cooper is appropriate. WHY not the MOUSE and the WATCH? How about a Cook Book that might put Cooper (duh - Weber) on the damn plane. A cookbook that came from the place Tina was born and raised! Only 3000 copies and I know where 3 of them are or where until the author died a few yrs ago. All three were in FL - 3 out of 3000 old cook books ended up in FL. How about another Cook Book - one that was contributed to by the locals in WA and ID and OR. One of the contributors was a woman in Mt. St Helens, OR who was the artist and a place Duane said he knew a woman who lived there. Why not a picture of the OLD Cooper boys - from Mt. St. Helens, OR...who were questioned after the crime. Include ALL the suspects or NONE at ALL! Best of all - use the Jefferson intake photos and then surround it with all of the before and afters of Weber showing a stronger chin with one BLK & WHT composite buried in the surrounding pics - FIND out what the PUBLIC thinks!Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites BobKnoss 0 #41772 July 30, 2013 Because you were all ASKED to do that. That's why. COMPLICITY AFTER THE FACT. Aught to be good for 8-10 in Federal lock-up. No time off for good behavior from the feds. You does the crime, you pays the time. They don't fool around like they used to. The guys would like to see a new fish like you stroll in. (Drool) Jim told me the whole thing. Gunna call him a liar?????? Guess not, huh. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites 377 20 #41773 July 30, 2013 Jo wroteQuoteYet, Weber was the ONLY valid suspect ever Jo, Don't you think that is a biased overstatement? 377 PS: I really liked Meyer Louie's and Robert 99's Tena Bar site visit. Finally a break in personal attacks and a return to real feet on the ground investigation. How refreshing and uplifting.2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites georger 197 #41774 July 30, 2013 For example, how long could the money have existed in the state it was found, assuming that Cooper was killed and that's how the money ended up there somehow? Nine years between hijacking and money find. Kaye and his folks say no way on that, from their analysis of the remaining bills. Kaye even tells Geoff Gray for his book that he believes the money arrived at Tina Bar by 'non-natural means'. Quote Myths vs Facts: Kaye's assertion of arrival by non-natural means has nothing to do with his analysis of the bills as you assert. On his website Kaye does make an association between the 'time of arrival' he thinks the money arrived at Tina Bar and a 'deterioration timeline for the rubber bands' he has constructed, but he does not use that to support a theory of 'arrival by non natural means'. Tom's only support for 'arrived by non natural means' is the flight path. That has nothing to with his analysis of the bills. You can read that here http://www.citizensleuths.com/flightpath.html under MoneyFind/Flight Path Analysis. So I don't know where you are getting 'Kaye says non natural means from his analysis of the remaining bills'. That doesn't exist! It's a conclusion you or Gray made. On a personal note* Your use of my email address on your LinkedIn account has been terminated. You are NOT entitled to use my email address for any purpose. IS THAT CLEAR! ? Who else's private email addresses from Dropzone users are you using for your private use? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites georger 197 #41775 July 30, 2013 377Jo wroteQuoteYet, Weber was the ONLY valid suspect ever Jo, Don't you think that is a biased overstatement? 377 PS: I really liked Meyer Louie's and Robert 99's Tena Bar site visit. Finally a break in personal attacks and a return to real feet on the ground investigation. How refreshing and uplifting. Nice public stance. Can I link your email address to my LinkedIn account for ads? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1666 1667 1668 1669 1670 1671 1672 1673 1674 1675 1676 Next Page 1671 of 2540 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 47 47 Go To Topic Listing
skyjack71 0 #41771 July 30, 2013 No one asked Jo Weber for anything. She moves slowly now so it take a while, but they never did ask. Yet, Weber was the ONLY valid suspect ever. What they need. The letter from The NIGHT clerk and his communication with Magie Boule. 1.The pictures of WEBER and ask Roy Rose if he is still living to take the Composite and match the before and after pics of Weber. Add the side burns and give him a head full of hair instead of a close prison cut and give him some lower teeth. Put that side by side with the Composit. 2. The before and after pics surrounding the Jefferson prison intake the FBI so skillfully made sure I did NOT see 17 yrs ago and then again in 2006 when Carr denied me the Jefferson Pics. 3. Is it because they couldn't find them? Well, how the hell did Shutter find them? 4. Why did Weber tell his wife "I'mmmm Dan Cooooper" - she had not idea who Dan Cooper was. 5. A copy of the hospital records for when Weber was arrested for trying to obtain a Drivers License under another name (John C. Collins). The the actually drivers license he had already obtained in the State of Fl only one day before they arreste him (he again BEAT the SYSTEM). 6. An explanation from the FBI as to why they ignored Weber's Ms file and the driver's license under that name. 7. A copy of Duane's San Quentin file showing he had a scar on his hand exactly where Tina said Cooper had a scar. Seven is a good number unless someone can add something to that list and see that the FBI & the Museum gets it! Proof! Jo has more PROOF on WEBER than any suspect ever presented - but the FBI and the STATE of WA wants Weber to GO away. JT tells every one Jo is a liar and fantasy story teller - perhaps JT was part of the DO NO HARM bunch. I supposedly made all of this SHIT up. HEY! This girl is not that smart. I saw the ticket. I saw the bank bag all clean and crisp folded in the console...and the name of the bank on it. Duane Weber left a book in a safe deposit box unknown to the widow. A magazine with the article showing a man jumping with a barrel between his legs and I actually think that is how WEBER took the money down. Tina claimed he was tying the package around his waist (he anchored the package to his waist but with some slack in the rope). Cooper used more than ONE anchor to himself....aways have a back-up. I had a canvas satchel with a long handle that Himmelsbach told me WAS NOT anything resembling what Cooper had, yet the CO-pilot said the money was put in a satchel with a strap. Just like the satchel I got rid of. Mr. H said it was not part of the crime and there was a good chance I could have retrived it from the charity I donated it to or have bought it back with a nice donation. Bet that museum would NOT want to present the pics of a dead man who was still alive yrs after he supposedly died...Duane's good friend. How about the MOUSE? Or perhaps a watch Cooper might have worn. Yet, using a secret door to a house a suspect lived in and one that did NOT even come close to the description of Cooper is appropriate. WHY not the MOUSE and the WATCH? How about a Cook Book that might put Cooper (duh - Weber) on the damn plane. A cookbook that came from the place Tina was born and raised! Only 3000 copies and I know where 3 of them are or where until the author died a few yrs ago. All three were in FL - 3 out of 3000 old cook books ended up in FL. How about another Cook Book - one that was contributed to by the locals in WA and ID and OR. One of the contributors was a woman in Mt. St Helens, OR who was the artist and a place Duane said he knew a woman who lived there. Why not a picture of the OLD Cooper boys - from Mt. St. Helens, OR...who were questioned after the crime. Include ALL the suspects or NONE at ALL! Best of all - use the Jefferson intake photos and then surround it with all of the before and afters of Weber showing a stronger chin with one BLK & WHT composite buried in the surrounding pics - FIND out what the PUBLIC thinks!Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BobKnoss 0 #41772 July 30, 2013 Because you were all ASKED to do that. That's why. COMPLICITY AFTER THE FACT. Aught to be good for 8-10 in Federal lock-up. No time off for good behavior from the feds. You does the crime, you pays the time. They don't fool around like they used to. The guys would like to see a new fish like you stroll in. (Drool) Jim told me the whole thing. Gunna call him a liar?????? Guess not, huh. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
377 20 #41773 July 30, 2013 Jo wroteQuoteYet, Weber was the ONLY valid suspect ever Jo, Don't you think that is a biased overstatement? 377 PS: I really liked Meyer Louie's and Robert 99's Tena Bar site visit. Finally a break in personal attacks and a return to real feet on the ground investigation. How refreshing and uplifting.2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georger 197 #41774 July 30, 2013 For example, how long could the money have existed in the state it was found, assuming that Cooper was killed and that's how the money ended up there somehow? Nine years between hijacking and money find. Kaye and his folks say no way on that, from their analysis of the remaining bills. Kaye even tells Geoff Gray for his book that he believes the money arrived at Tina Bar by 'non-natural means'. Quote Myths vs Facts: Kaye's assertion of arrival by non-natural means has nothing to do with his analysis of the bills as you assert. On his website Kaye does make an association between the 'time of arrival' he thinks the money arrived at Tina Bar and a 'deterioration timeline for the rubber bands' he has constructed, but he does not use that to support a theory of 'arrival by non natural means'. Tom's only support for 'arrived by non natural means' is the flight path. That has nothing to with his analysis of the bills. You can read that here http://www.citizensleuths.com/flightpath.html under MoneyFind/Flight Path Analysis. So I don't know where you are getting 'Kaye says non natural means from his analysis of the remaining bills'. That doesn't exist! It's a conclusion you or Gray made. On a personal note* Your use of my email address on your LinkedIn account has been terminated. You are NOT entitled to use my email address for any purpose. IS THAT CLEAR! ? Who else's private email addresses from Dropzone users are you using for your private use? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites georger 197 #41775 July 30, 2013 377Jo wroteQuoteYet, Weber was the ONLY valid suspect ever Jo, Don't you think that is a biased overstatement? 377 PS: I really liked Meyer Louie's and Robert 99's Tena Bar site visit. Finally a break in personal attacks and a return to real feet on the ground investigation. How refreshing and uplifting. Nice public stance. Can I link your email address to my LinkedIn account for ads? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1666 1667 1668 1669 1670 1671 1672 1673 1674 1675 1676 Next Page 1671 of 2540 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 47 47
georger 197 #41775 July 30, 2013 377Jo wroteQuoteYet, Weber was the ONLY valid suspect ever Jo, Don't you think that is a biased overstatement? 377 PS: I really liked Meyer Louie's and Robert 99's Tena Bar site visit. Finally a break in personal attacks and a return to real feet on the ground investigation. How refreshing and uplifting. Nice public stance. Can I link your email address to my LinkedIn account for ads? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
