47 47
quade

DB Cooper

Recommended Posts

georger

Ive said this before but I think Cooper could very easily have
deduced 'you might be able to parachute out the back of a
727 using the rear stairs', just by visiting an airport and watching
727's come and go. And he could have explored the possibility
further just by talking to the right people. So far as I know
nobody came forwad later to say: 'Hey. There was a guy asking
about parachuting from a 727 last year. I'm not sure who he
was.'

I mean daVinci and Wright got the idea of airfoils, just watching
birds. You didn't have to be a bird. :D



Let me elaborate a bit more on what Shutter and Georger are writing about these stairs. Normally, there is no need to open a door or hatch on an airliner in flight and they are designed so that cabin pressurization helps keep them closed and sealed.

The 727 was just one of several airliners in that time frame that had rear stairs. For instance, the DC-9 was in widespread use in the USA and it had rear stairs as well as did a number of foreign designs.

But the 727 was unique in that it was the only airliner with rear stairs that could be deployed in flight. The DC-9 and other airliners could not do this. In addition, it was not "common knowledge", or something that could be observed at the local airport, that the 727's stairs had that capability (or maybe design oversight).

So Cooper had to have previous knowledge that the 727's stairs could be deployed in flight and that people and cargo could depart the aircraft in flight by means of those stairs.

Since the only place the 727 was being used in this manner was in Southeast Asia, it is logical to conclude that Cooper had knowledge of those operations.

When he arrived at the ticket counter in Portland, Cooper had already selected the 727 as the airliner he wanted and he just double checked with the ticket agent.

If another aircraft had been substituted for that flight on that day, Cooper would probably have just flown to Seattle, got off the plane, and started looking for another opportunity to do a hijacking.

Robert99

Just ignore Jo Weber's rambling in the previous post. It is just her usual wild eyed speculations.

R99

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

someone sent me a PM stating Huge Hefner had a jet back in 1969. a DC-9 to be exact. these also had a rear stairwell on them.

we have a letter where portions of a Playboy magazine was used.
and it's my understanding Hefner had a son named Cooper.

YIKES....let the games begin.....B|

http://www.jetgala.com/story_201108_03-Wings-Hugh-Hefners-Big-Bunny-Jet.html

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
mrshutter45

someone sent me a PM stating Huge Hefner had a jet back in 1969. a DC-9 to be exact. these also had a rear stairwell on them.

we have a letter where portions of a Playboy magazine was used.
and it's my understanding Hefner had a son named Cooper.

YIKES....let the games begin.....B|

http://www.jetgala.com/story_201108_03-Wings-Hugh-Hefners-Big-Bunny-Jet.html



Shutter, please don't get Jo Weber going about the Playboy DC-9. Jo will probably start claiming that Duane Weber knew Hefner and dated all the playmates.

Incidentally, the Playboy DC-9 ended its days hauling cargo for UPS (I think it was.). It has since been melted down as scrap.

Robert99

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Robert99

***someone sent me a PM stating Huge Hefner had a jet back in 1969. a DC-9 to be exact. these also had a rear stairwell on them.

we have a letter where portions of a Playboy magazine was used.
and it's my understanding Hefner had a son named Cooper.

YIKES....let the games begin.....B|

http://www.jetgala.com/story_201108_03-Wings-Hugh-Hefners-Big-Bunny-Jet.html



Shutter, please don't get Jo Weber going about the Playboy DC-9. Jo will probably start claiming that Duane Weber knew Hefner and dated all the playmates.

Incidentally, the Playboy DC-9 ended its days hauling cargo for UPS (I think it was.). It has since been melted down as scrap.

Robert99

ok B| knowing Hef. he is probably flying around in the space shuttle by now anyway's B|;):ph34r:
"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Robert99

***Ive said this before but I think Cooper could very easily have
deduced 'you might be able to parachute out the back of a
727 using the rear stairs', just by visiting an airport and watching
727's come and go. And he could have explored the possibility
further just by talking to the right people. So far as I know
nobody came forwad later to say: 'Hey. There was a guy asking
about parachuting from a 727 last year. I'm not sure who he
was.'

I mean daVinci and Wright got the idea of airfoils, just watching
birds. You didn't have to be a bird. :D



Let me elaborate a bit more on what Shutter and Georger are writing about these stairs. Normally, there is no need to open a door or hatch on an airliner in flight and they are designed so that cabin pressurization helps keep them closed and sealed.

The 727 was just one of several airliners in that time frame that had rear stairs. For instance, the DC-9 was in widespread use in the USA and it had rear stairs as well as did a number of foreign designs.

But the 727 was unique in that it was the only airliner with rear stairs that could be deployed in flight. The DC-9 and other airliners could not do this. In addition, it was not "common knowledge", or something that could be observed at the local airport, that the 727's stairs had that capability (or maybe design oversight).

So Cooper had to have previous knowledge that the 727's stairs could be deployed in flight and that people and cargo could depart the aircraft in flight by means of those stairs.

Since the only place the 727 was being used in this manner was in Southeast Asia, it is logical to conclude that Cooper had knowledge of those operations.

When he arrived at the ticket counter in Portland, Cooper had already selected the 727 as the airliner he wanted and he just double checked with the ticket agent.

If another aircraft had been substituted for that flight on that day, Cooper would probably have just flown to Portland, got off the plane, and started looking for another opportunity to do a hijacking.

Robert99

Just ignore Jo Weber's rambling in the previous post. It is just her usual wild eyed speculations.

R99


Excuse me Robert - what you said in your post is exactly what I was trying to say in my own "ignorant" way. If I was "speculating" just why did it jive with the very things you posted? I have tried to stay out of the technical and espionage aspects of this case, but since SOMEONE else is going to use them - it is known in this thread that I introduced it yrs ago only to be admonished by the thread for doing so.

The 727 was DESIGNED for small airports - DID you know that?

Therefore it did lend itself to be used by the governement for jumps and other things that required it to get in and get out fast and especially if they wanted to put men on the ground first.

The only reason you would deny this is if you were part of such an operation. Remember the "french doors" and what was behind them?
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Those missions would be declassified by now, if they even happened.

Use the FOIA and show us those missions, then we may be inclined to think along those lines.

Personally, the hijacker is not one of the three we keep bantering about here, no conclusive evidence so far.

I think the hijacker, had a small amount of ACTUAL military training, in the exit and jumping arena, and had a risk-reward plan in mind that made it so we are confused by some of his choices.

And, if he still lives, he laughs at this thread daily, as he twists his MACVSOG ring and enjoys a cold beer in Mexico .

Matt
An Instructors first concern is student safety.
So, start being safe, first!!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
matthewcline

Those missions would be declassified by now, if they even happened.

Use the FOIA and show us those missions, then we may be inclined to think along those lines.

Personally, the hijacker is not one of the three we keep bantering about here, no conclusive evidence so far.

I think the hijacker, had a small amount of ACTUAL military training, in the exit and jumping arena, and had a risk-reward plan in mind that made it so we are confused by some of his choices.

And, if he still lives, he laughs at this thread daily, as he twists his MACVSOG ring and enjoys a cold beer in Mexico .

Matt



makes sense...what is your thoughts about the knowledge of the plane Cooper had?
"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
matthewcline

Those missions would be declassified by now, if they even happened.

Use the FOIA and show us those missions, then we may be inclined to think along those lines.

Personally, the hijacker is not one of the three we keep bantering about here, no conclusive evidence so far.

I think the hijacker, had a small amount of ACTUAL military training, in the exit and jumping arena, and had a risk-reward plan in mind that made it so we are confused by some of his choices.

And, if he still lives, he laughs at this thread daily, as he twists his MACVSOG ring and enjoys a cold beer in Mexico .

Matt



These 727 missions in Southeast Asia did happen and have been written up by a fellow in Texas. I don't remember his name or the link but they have been on this thread for about the last three or four years.

Robert99

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Robert99

***Those missions would be declassified by now, if they even happened.

Use the FOIA and show us those missions, then we may be inclined to think along those lines.

Personally, the hijacker is not one of the three we keep bantering about here, no conclusive evidence so far.

I think the hijacker, had a small amount of ACTUAL military training, in the exit and jumping arena, and had a risk-reward plan in mind that made it so we are confused by some of his choices.

And, if he still lives, he laughs at this thread daily, as he twists his MACVSOG ring and enjoys a cold beer in Mexico .

Matt



These 727 missions in Southeast Asia did happen and have been written up by a fellow in Texas. I don't remember his name or the link but they have been on this thread for about the last three or four years.

Robert99


here is some info, scroll way down in the file

http://www.utdallas.edu/library/specialcollections/hac/cataam/Leeker/history/Tibet.pdf

the full video of which we always see can be found here

http://www.vietnam.ttu.edu/AirAmerica/FMFM/index.htm
"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
skyjack71

The 727 was DESIGNED for small airports - DID you know that?



No, I didn't know that and I don't think your "source" knew that either.

The 727 was designed for routes shorter than the 707 routes and it was also designed to fit into the air traffic at airports that also handled the 707. Consequently, it was NOT designed for a small airport.

Perhaps you are confused by the 737 which was designed for secondary airports while its main competitor, the DC-9, was designed to fit into air traffic along with the 707, 727, etc..

Robert99

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Robert99

***Those missions would be declassified by now, if they even happened.

Use the FOIA and show us those missions, then we may be inclined to think along those lines.

Personally, the hijacker is not one of the three we keep bantering about here, no conclusive evidence so far.

I think the hijacker, had a small amount of ACTUAL military training, in the exit and jumping arena, and had a risk-reward plan in mind that made it so we are confused by some of his choices.

And, if he still lives, he laughs at this thread daily, as he twists his MACVSOG ring and enjoys a cold beer in Mexico .

Matt



These 727 missions in Southeast Asia did happen and have been written up by a fellow in Texas. I don't remember his name or the link but they have been on this thread for about the last three or four years.

Robert99

I was addressing Jo's missions in AK, TX, etc. If she got those records, then she could do one of two things, confirm or deny DW's involvement. I think it is far fetched he had anything to do with SOF/Covert Ops

The SEA Missions are legendary in the Military Parachuting and SOF World. I have had the pleasure of jumping from some "none-jump" planes, or even ones "outdated".

Matt
An Instructors first concern is student safety.
So, start being safe, first!!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
georger

The Damn Comic was never mentioned in the Cooper Case until Snowmman brought it up in this thread.



So what? Seriously. So what?

It's not as if bringing that to light comes with a copyright.

Once a piece of information is public, that's what it is; public.
quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
mrshutter45

I agree with a lot of what you said until you use the term liar.


Thank you, Mr. Shutter.

Maybe the memories from when someone is 8 years old are off, but no one spends that much time with the FBI and undergoes a lie detector test when they make up a story unless they want to get into a heap of trouble.

Challenging Marla's story is fair game. But, the ad hominem attacks is why RobertMBlevins lacks credibility when he comments on Marla.

Jo, Marla and even RobertMBlevins himself all had things told to them (either directly or through non verbal responses like someone turning ashen when asked a question about the hijacking). It was a personal experience to each of them, so each of them believe it. Maybe one of them is correct, maybe none of them are. But I don't see any reason to think that any of them are lying about what they saw or heard.

(Bob Knoss - I'm not ready to commit on. I still think he might just be toying with us).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
MarkBennett

***I agree with a lot of what you said until you use the term liar.


Thank you, Mr. Shutter.

Maybe the memories from when someone is 8 years old are off, but no one spends that much time with the FBI and undergoes a lie detector test when they make up a story unless they want to get into a heap of trouble.

Challenging Marla's story is fair game. But, the ad hominem attacks is why RobertMBlevins lacks credibility when he comments on Marla.

Jo, Marla and even RobertMBlevins himself all had things told to them (either directly or through non verbal responses like someone turning ashen when asked a question about the hijacking). It was a personal experience to each of them, so each of them believe it. Maybe one of them is correct, maybe none of them are. But I don't see any reason to think that any of them are lying about what they saw or heard.

(Bob Knoss - I'm not ready to commit on. I still think he might just be toying with us).

no problem Mark, it might have been you who set me straight about that word when I first came on here. I enjoy looking into stories such as Marla's, even though peeps are tired of her name. I must admit though it's hasn't been much of a challenge so far, but one never knows.....

I'm very interested in her putting all the cards on the table in the future....lot's of people have done some crazy things in order to get attention, money or fame, so let's see what the future brings. B|

here is a good example...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJVTHIyyM2E
"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Robert99

***The 727 was DESIGNED for small airports - DID you know that?



No, I didn't know that and I don't think your "source" knew that either.

The 727 was designed for routes shorter than the 707 routes and it was also designed to fit into the air traffic at airports that also handled the 707. Consequently, it was NOT designed for a small airport.

Perhaps you are confused by the 737 which was designed for secondary airports while its main competitor, the DC-9, was designed to fit into air traffic along with the 707, 727, etc..

Robert99

You better do YOUR fricking research.
The whole idea of using the aft stairs was to make it available to access the smaller airport without the ramps.
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

Jo, Marla and even RobertMBlevins himself all had things told to them (either directly or through non verbal responses like someone turning ashen when asked a question about the hijacking). It was a personal experience to each of them, so each of them believe it. Maybe one of them is correct, maybe none of them are. But I don't see any reason to think that any of them are lying about what they saw or heard.

(Bob Knoss - I'm not ready to commit on. I still think he might just be toying with us).



I know my response when I found out in 2001 about what the artist Roy Rose told Doug Pasternak. When Rose told Doug he couldn't make the mouth satisfy the witnessed because of an action he made with his mouth.
I immediately told Doug what it was! He and I both had chills from our head to our toes. I will never forget that moment as long as I live as I finished Doug's sentence.

He and I discussed Duane's having a lower particial at that time.

The next shocking moment was when I first saw that Jefferson Prison intake of Duane. All I could say was "Oh, My God!" Those who know me know that is seldom a terminology I use.

Ashen was NOT the correct terminology - absolutely speechless and the sounds I heard that did NOT want to stop that night was my physical reaction.
I will never forget the sounds - NOT ever. It was a eerie night!

Over the yrs I have felt anger and frustration. It is the moments of new found information and things that fit into what I had been telling for yrs - that took me to my knees or caused me to shout out to no one as I was alone.
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
skyjack71

******The 727 was DESIGNED for small airports - DID you know that?



No, I didn't know that and I don't think your "source" knew that either.

The 727 was designed for routes shorter than the 707 routes and it was also designed to fit into the air traffic at airports that also handled the 707. Consequently, it was NOT designed for a small airport.

Perhaps you are confused by the 737 which was designed for secondary airports while its main competitor, the DC-9, was designed to fit into air traffic along with the 707, 727, etc..

Robert99

You better do YOUR fricking research.
The whole idea of using the aft stairs was to make it available to access the smaller airport without the ramps.


The Boeing 727 design was a compromise between United Airlines, American Airlines, and Eastern Air Lines requirements for a jet airliner to serve smaller cities with shorter runways and fewer passengers...


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_727











~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
quade

***The Damn Comic was never mentioned in the Cooper Case until Snowmman brought it up in this thread.



So what? Seriously. So what?

It's not as if bringing that to light comes with a copyright.

Once a piece of information is public, that's what it is; public.

I definitely realize that - it is just that I like to see credit given where credit is due. I despise deception even though I have had to participate in deception myself - often pleading ignorance to a subject or pretending to know more about the subject than I really did. 17 yrs is a LONG time to dwell on one subject.

I do try to remember who brought certain things forward and despise individuals who do NOT give the credits where they belong - instead taking credit for things they had NOTHING to do with.

I knew by participating in this thread that I had to be an open book and I have tried to do that. Believe you me, I could have taken the book thing and the movie thing offered to me, but I chose to find the truths. I was not comfortable with the "places" they wanted to go. It had to be the truth or nothing at all.

I walked on that in 2001 - but I did protect my rights in a limited sort of way. I know you are a writer Quade just like I know things about others who post here that let their guard down and disclose things about their personal lives. Most I have not a clue who they are or what the are and it makes NO difference - what mattered to me was the truth regardless of how it came down regarding Duane Weber.

I certainly did NOT expect what Mrshutter found with the Jefferson file to be so explosive. Instead of bringing resolution - it brought deception at the highest level to the forefront. Those who knew Duane - just did NOT believe those photos. They had thought perhaps the Jefferson file would aid me in walking away - but they like myself could only say "Oh, My God!" "Mom, he really was Cooper", "Damn him".

I wish they had been made public when there was still those alive who could have told the other parts of Duane's story. The ex died in 2004. I refused to provide her an address - she wanted to send me something. I will never know what that "something" was. Perhaps it was something that would have solve the case - now I will never know.

Max Gunther believed that Clara and Duane's ex were one and the same - that was from a recording of her voice. He made a trip to CA and when he returned he and I exchange our last letter and our last phone call in which he asked me if I had a marker and pen. We went thru the book and I marked the few things that Clara shared - the truths that he used to create his book. The book was mostly fiction.

Clara was real and the 6 phone calls he exchange with Clara are real - the story was created using those 6 phone calls - he had a lot of filling in to do...but, only after the FBI said they had no interest in Clara or her story. When Clara contacted Max - she thought Cooper was already dead because the last time he saw her in 1977 - he told her he only had about 5 yrs...

I remember that when I contacted the ex - she told me she thought he had died a long time before 1995....she was terrified of the FBI.
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
testxyz

Attached is an article from November of 1980.

L.D. Cooper and Sock stuffed with 25 thousand dollars found by a dog.

Almost as bizarre as the D.B. Cooper story.

Those L.D. Coopers are trouble! funny




Good one! you got me B| I stopped reading just after the 25 grand and went to the article.
nice touch leaving William out of it lol
"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
MarkBennett

***I agree with a lot of what you said until you use the term liar.


Thank you, Mr. Shutter.

Maybe the memories from when someone is 8 years old are off, but no one spends that much time with the FBI and undergoes a lie detector test when they make up a story unless they want to get into a heap of trouble.

Challenging Marla's story is fair game. But, the ad hominem attacks is why RobertMBlevins lacks credibility when he comments on Marla.

Jo, Marla and even RobertMBlevins himself all had things told to them (either directly or through non verbal responses like someone turning ashen when asked a question about the hijacking). It was a personal experience to each of them, so each of them believe it. Maybe one of them is correct, maybe none of them are. But I don't see any reason to think that any of them are lying about what they saw or heard.

(Bob Knoss - I'm not ready to commit on. I still think he might just be toying with us).

wow! very well put.
:)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
mrshutter45

******Those missions would be declassified by now, if they even happened.

Use the FOIA and show us those missions, then we may be inclined to think along those lines.

Personally, the hijacker is not one of the three we keep bantering about here, no conclusive evidence so far.

I think the hijacker, had a small amount of ACTUAL military training, in the exit and jumping arena, and had a risk-reward plan in mind that made it so we are confused by some of his choices.

And, if he still lives, he laughs at this thread daily, as he twists his MACVSOG ring and enjoys a cold beer in Mexico .

Matt



These 727 missions in Southeast Asia did happen and have been written up by a fellow in Texas. I don't remember his name or the link but they have been on this thread for about the last three or four years.

Robert99


here is some info, scroll way down in the file

http://www.utdallas.edu/library/specialcollections/hac/cataam/Leeker/history/Tibet.pdf

the full video of which we always see can be found here

http://www.vietnam.ttu.edu/AirAmerica/FMFM/index.htm
Quote



nice find ...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
airtwardo

*********The 727 was DESIGNED for small airports - DID you know that?



No, I didn't know that and I don't think your "source" knew that either.

The 727 was designed for routes shorter than the 707 routes and it was also designed to fit into the air traffic at airports that also handled the 707. Consequently, it was NOT designed for a small airport.

Perhaps you are confused by the 737 which was designed for secondary airports while its main competitor, the DC-9, was designed to fit into air traffic along with the 707, 727, etc..

Robert99

You better do YOUR fricking research.
The whole idea of using the aft stairs was to make it available to access the smaller airport without the ramps.


The Boeing 727 design was a compromise between United Airlines, American Airlines, and Eastern Air Lines requirements for a jet airliner to serve smaller cities with shorter runways and fewer passengers...


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_727


Okay! So Airtwardo and Jo think the 727 was designed to serve "smaller cities with shorter runways and fewer passengers" and that the rear stairs were incorporated so that no ground stairs would be needed.

Let's consider some facts here based on my personal experiences and observations as having flown on 727s almost from the day they went into service.

I have boarded and deplaned from 727s using the rear stairs and the forward door which may have its own retractable stairs installed, may use stairs mounted on a truck, and used "jet ways" when they started coming into use. All of this was at "larger airports".

When using the rear stairs, the forward door was also in use without exception. I have never even seen a commercial airliner in the USA use only the rear stairs for boarding and deplaning.

I have visited "smaller airports" (and I do mean small in the sense of light traffic) on DC-9s, which also has a rear stairs, and all boarding/deplaning was done through the forward door. The rear stairs were never lowered.

The 707 was designed to be an "Intercontinental" aircraft and one version of it was named just that. But the 727 was designed to fill in the gaps between the east and west coasts. The passenger capacity of the original 707 and 727 was not particularly different. But as jets became the way to travel, various versions of these two aircraft evolved to serve specific market conditions.

If Boeing built an aircraft for the smaller markets, then it would have to be the 737. And the 737 has evolved a bit over the years that it has been in production.

I stand by my original statements.

Robert99

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

47 47