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DB Cooper

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RobertMBlevins

***

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Is it possible DBC put the briefcase in the dummy chute, strapped it on in front,




Very doubtful...vastly different in size & shape.

'IF' DBC was up to speed on the gear, I'd be skeptical regarding putting much of anything in the reserve container or 'dummy chute'.

They are by design very easy and quick to open, they basically are four flaps held closed by a couple of short/thin pins attached to a large heavy handle.

The contents are what give it it's 'shape' and assist in keeping it close until needed.

It would be pretty dicey trying to pack it with bundles and HOPE the pins stay put & keep it closed securely.



Yes...and if he had done this, there where is the limited amount of nylon that would have been inside? Or whatever this trainer was stuffed with. Not found on plane. I keep wondering whether Cooper just tossed the reserve unopened out of the plane, and if so, why it has never been discovered. My understanding is that it couldn't be attached to another chute harness. You have to wonder about that. And the briefcase? Not found either.

On the money bag: Only thing for sure is that Cooper was seen tying some paracord around his waist, just before Mucklow closed the curtain. After that...?

____________________________________________

Let's see now, I asked for an expert opinion, and got it (thanks for the clarification, Airtwardo about the briefcase and dummy chute).

Then Blevins, the non-expert, steps in and has more to say about the subject than the expert. Only Blevins would do that. Blevins, you're a goldfish trying to swim upstream with the salmon. Go back to the sandbox, junior.

MeyerLouie

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Blevins stated:

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Didn't Richard Tosaw say that when he saw Tina at the convent, that Tina told him she didn't remember much from the hijacking?



I spoke with Tosaw, Himmelsbach and the co-pilot about Tina. The co-pilot did NOT address the skyjacking with her when he reconnected with her thru me! Need anyone ask WHY?

Need anyone ask me WHY I did not hound upon that girl! She never speaks to the media, but she made an exception for me - and she verbalized that. I have protected her as though she were my own daughter by withholding information regarding her location and contact information.

ONE day perhaps I will post the emails and a copy of a letter Galen sent me - expounding on me about TINA's contact information!

:)What would be the MOST demonstrative would be a RECORDING of a very angry Cook claiming I promised him Tina's contact information for the FAKE pic of a FAKE suspect he sent to me with a letter. I did NOT agree to do that - what he provided could and probably was a copy of a picture taken from a college annual. This was in 2004 - long long before he had Gossett as a suspect.

[:/]:|:S:(

Like I said - I have had the best of the best to try to hoax me and trick me and pull the wool over my eyes!

Robert99 is the worst of the worst trying to claim I said this or that and playing with the words I spoke out of term, with relation to prior posts I made.

Frankly Blevins, YOU are just about the only one on here who has the skills to relate to the others what and whose post and the reason you make a post. It makes you long winded - but at least you are not accused of saying the things I get accused of.

:):|[:/]:(:|[:/][:/][:/]My conversation with TINA was very short and very personal and we did NOT discuss the case and this happened in 2004 - SO END OF THAT!
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

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WHERE does THIS information come from?

Tena described a corner of something green sticking out of a compartment in the top of the briefcase.

NOW you guys who know so much and claim to have done SO MUCH research tell me where I got that bit of information?



Blevins - DO NOT ANSWER THIS.
LET'S see where the KNOW IT ALLS go with this bit of information!
I know you know the answer!
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

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Jo, since you are so nice I will ask you this.......
would you like to see a picture of Duane in the Missouri State Prison?
"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

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airtwardo

Quote

Is it possible DBC put the briefcase in the dummy chute, strapped it on in front,




Very doubtful...vastly different in size & shape.

'IF' DBC was up to speed on the gear, I'd be skeptical regarding putting much of anything in the reserve container or 'dummy chute'.

They are by design very easy and quick to open, they basically are four flaps held closed by a couple of short/thin pins attached to a large heavy handle.

The contents are what give it it's 'shape' and assist in keeping it close until needed.

It would be pretty dicey trying to pack it with bundles and HOPE the pins stay put & keep it closed securely.



_____________________________________________

Thanks for the information. I had a feeling you were going to say that. I saw 377's demo at the 2012 Symposium (shape and size of a parachute) and I know the size and shape of typical brifefcases, so I figured the fit would not be there. It's literally like trying to fit a big square into a smaller round hole. In addition, it seems that negotiating the awkward shape of the briefcase would be a bit of a challenge.

So, there's lots of discussion, and several pictures, of how Cooper might have attached the moneybag to his person, but few have really discusses or reconciled what happened to the briefcase (and dummy chute for that matter).

If Cooper didn't toss the briefcase, what's feasible then for how he might have carried it with him? That is, in your expert opinion, do you think it's likely that Cooper took the briefcase with him, and if so, how? I pose the same question to 377 as well.

Same question for the dummy chute -- without the "D' rings, is it likely he took that reserve chute with him? Earlier, I conjectured that maybe he tied the dummy chute onto himself just to have material for fashiioning some sort of lean-to, pancho, and/or foot protection after landing. No one really responded to that notion, so I'm gathering it's a bit far-fetched.

In short, what is the likelihood of Cooper packing along the briefcase and/or the dummy chute? That is, what is the likelihood he took both, neither, or one of the two?

MeyerLouie

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Cooper pulled the ripcord right off the end of the stairs while carrying this package? Or as soon as he jumped? Without a working reserve, he might want to ensure the chute would actually open BEFORE he commits to any jump. Then...after the chute inflates...and as he descends...he lets the package tied to his waist drop below him.



Once that pilot chute hits the 727 slipstream and extracts the canopy YOU ARE GOING. I doubt that you could hang on to the stairs if the main canopy streamered and failed to inflate.

You agree Airtwardo?

377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

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RobertMBlevins

There are only two possible answers on the briefcase and dummy chute. Either Cooper tossed them from the jet, or he somehow took them with him all the way to the ground. Let's call 'Tossed' by A, and 'Carried' by B.

A: Tossed. Entirely possible. But neither has been discovered on the ground.

B: Carried. Couple of minor problems here, too. Posts from 377 and others have said this could be dangerous because it could make your fall unstable with such a bulky load on your chest. So what are some of the possible answers?



Hmmm now we have SafecrackingBlevins PLF!

Are you up on your permutations/combinations?

N!

A or B .... or A, B, AB, BA ...

4! = 4x3x2 = 24 possibilities.

Hmmmm. A paradox. :o:D:ph34r:

Dont let your theories slap you up side of the head, as you fall,
LOST.

Think about it! :P:D

oo oo ... what became of his choppers? That's false teeth. ?

[:/]

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377

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Cooper pulled the ripcord right off the end of the stairs while carrying this package? Or as soon as he jumped? Without a working reserve, he might want to ensure the chute would actually open BEFORE he commits to any jump. Then...after the chute inflates...and as he descends...he lets the package tied to his waist drop below him.



Once that pilot chute hits the 727 slipstream and extracts the canopy YOU ARE GOING. I doubt that you could hang on to the stairs if the main canopy streamered and failed to inflate.

You agree Airtwardo?

377


Yup! ;)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4MaMH7NBAs
~fast forward to the 25 sec. mark...B|










~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

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georger

***There are only two possible answers on the briefcase and dummy chute. Either Cooper tossed them from the jet, or he somehow took them with him all the way to the ground. Let's call 'Tossed' by A, and 'Carried' by B.

A: Tossed. Entirely possible. But neither has been discovered on the ground.

B: Carried. Couple of minor problems here, too. Posts from 377 and others have said this could be dangerous because it could make your fall unstable with such a bulky load on your chest. So what are some of the possible answers?



Hmmm now we have SafecrackingBlevins PLF!

Are you up on your permutations/combinations?

N!

A or B .... or A, B, AB, BA ...

4! = 4x3x2 = 24 possibilities.

Hmmmm. A paradox. :o:D:ph34r:

Dont let your theories slap you up side of the head, as you fall,
LOST.

Think about it! :P:D

oo oo ... what became of his choppers? That's false teeth. ?

[:/]

I was just out changing the oil in the bike thinking about that very thing...I'd say at LEAST that many possibilities!

A lot depends on DBC's experience, knowledge and intentions, without a clue as to the facts surrounding those variables...the combination of possibilities is huge.

Tie it to himself?
~As I said earlier, that's not as easy as it sounds.

Fabricate a 'drop line' securing the package(s) to the end?
~If not done right that could cause significant problems with canopy deployment if in freefall. As mentioned possible problems on landing. Less so maybe if pulling while on the step but a knowledgeable skydiver most likely would not do that. A Smoke jumper-maybe.

Tie some & hang onto some?
~Could be done, but he'd have to have been a jumper AND have a cool head & strong grip.

The list of 'possibilities' is vast... without knowing his background the list of 'probabilities' is pretty short.










~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

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I imagine the opening would be like the upward bounce on a bungee jump or something.



Not quite...with that canopy and that speed, it's more like jumping off a bungee jumping platform ~ with a log chain instead of a big rubber band.

You're essentially decelerating from what...about 150 mph to almost zero in two heartbeats.










~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

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mrshutter45

Jo, since you are so nice I will ask you this.......
would you like to see a picture of Duane in the Missouri State Prison?



Definitely YES. The FBI would NOT provide it even though I asked over and over and over. I have a foggy blurred photo taken when he was released the ex sent me - but all I have of that time.
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

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skyjack71

***Jo, since you are so nice I will ask you this.......
would you like to see a picture of Duane in the Missouri State Prison?



Definitely YES. The FBI would NOT provide it even though I asked over and over and over. I have a foggy blurred photo taken when he was released the ex sent me - but all I have of that time.


here it is, I was shocked myself, but I had to find out...
"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

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But Cooper was last seen tying a rope around his WAIST. As if he were planning NOT to secure the package necessarily to his waist or chest, but to tie something to the END OF THE ROPE. This to me, seems the safest and the most natural thing to do. You bind up all three items, then take the line around your waist and tie it securely to the whole bundle. This way, you still have one hand free while going down the stairs.

Second...we also know Cooper was carrying a knife. If he had any experience skydiving, we can assume he knew about cutaways.

What if....

Cooper pulled the ripcord right off the end of the stairs while carrying this package? Or as soon as he jumped? Without a working reserve, he might want to ensure the chute would actually open BEFORE he commits to any jump. Then...after the chute inflates...and as he descends...he lets the package tied to his waist drop below him.

Some of the skydivers here have suggested that this could cause him problems at landing, because the rope below with the package could trap him in the trees. Granted.

But, what if when he approached the ground, he simply cuts the line free at his waist and lets the package drop? He had a knife. I'll attach the demo pic again.




This is a technique taught by Paperlegs Petersen and Mouse was one of his students. 377 told this story a few months ago...I was the only one who recognized why he did so.

Perhaps he was playing Devil's advocate, but the riddle and the mouse made sense with what I knew!
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

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Oh MY GOD. I never knew him to look like that. It looks like he had some missing teeth and why his mouth was like that. He had a bridge when I met him - it was NOT removeable - had to have been expensive. If it was removeable - I never saw him without it.

I came back after I got over the initial shock. I never knew him without Gray hair and I never saw his hair like that at all - very curly and he looked so gaunt - spooky is the only word I have. He had that scar where a tuff of hair had been picked out or removed.

He looked so old - and the close hair cut I never ever saw and his ears looked so large. Duane definitely had some things done. Teeth and ears.
He had told me he had his ears pinned and I didn't believe him - now I do! That picture is shocking. I am trying to figure out how to down load it and print it. I believe the daughter he helped me raise will be as shocked as I was and still am! Was this photo on intake or release?
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

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skyjack71

Oh MY GOD. I never knew him to look like that. It looks like he had some missing teeth and why his mouth was like that. He had a bridge when I met him - it was NOT removeable - had to have been expensive. If it was removeable - I never saw him without it.



your welcome......B|
"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

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airtwardo

Quote

I imagine the opening would be like the upward bounce on a bungee jump or something.



Not quite...with that canopy and that speed, it's more like jumping off a bungee jumping platform ~ with a log chain instead of a big rubber band.

You're essentially decelerating from what...about 150 mph to almost zero in two heartbeats.



now we are getting to real forces involved!

not exactly like jumping from a c47 wwII with some stuff tied
to you ....... lo forces.

The kinds of forces you are describing are more in line with
comments the Boeing club members described. Something tied
around the mid section with those forces could displace a hip
and cause a hernia?

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skyjack71

Oh MY GOD. I never knew him to look like that. It looks like he had some missing teeth and why his mouth was like that. He had a bridge when I met him - it was NOT removeable - had to have been expensive. If it was removeable - I never saw him without it.



Yep - those choppers are an issue just as *765%$3* described.
Yum yum. B|.

I think all can agree - DB Cooper didnt look like that! :D:D

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airtwardo

******There are only two possible answers on the briefcase and dummy chute. Either Cooper tossed them from the jet, or he somehow took them with him all the way to the ground. Let's call 'Tossed' by A, and 'Carried' by B.

A: Tossed. Entirely possible. But neither has been discovered on the ground.

B: Carried. Couple of minor problems here, too. Posts from 377 and others have said this could be dangerous because it could make your fall unstable with such a bulky load on your chest. So what are some of the possible answers?



Hmmm now we have SafecrackingBlevins PLF!

Are you up on your permutations/combinations?

N!

A or B .... or A, B, AB, BA ...

4! = 4x3x2 = 24 possibilities.

Hmmmm. A paradox. :o:D:ph34r:

Dont let your theories slap you up side of the head, as you fall,
LOST.

Think about it! :P:D

oo oo ... what became of his choppers? That's false teeth. ?

[:/]

I was just out changing the oil in the bike thinking about that very thing...I'd say at LEAST that many possibilities!

A lot depends on DBC's experience, knowledge and intentions, without a clue as to the facts surrounding those variables...the combination of possibilities is huge.

Tie it to himself?
~As I said earlier, that's not as easy as it sounds.

Fabricate a 'drop line' securing the package(s) to the end?
~If not done right that could cause significant problems with canopy deployment if in freefall. As mentioned possible problems on landing. Less so maybe if pulling while on the step but a knowledgeable skydiver most likely would not do that. A Smoke jumper-maybe.

Tie some & hang onto some?
~Could be done, but he'd have to have been a jumper AND have a cool head & strong grip.

The list of 'possibilities' is vast... without knowing his background the list of 'probabilities' is pretty short.

Im beginning to agree - - -

Im also finding myself revisiting those 'forces' the Boeing guys
talked about (swore had to be a fact!). This was no casual
jump from a C47 ... either Cooper was aware of the difference
or he wasn't!

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377

Quote

Cooper pulled the ripcord right off the end of the stairs while carrying this package? Or as soon as he jumped? Without a working reserve, he might want to ensure the chute would actually open BEFORE he commits to any jump. Then...after the chute inflates...and as he descends...he lets the package tied to his waist drop below him.



Once that pilot chute hits the 727 slipstream and extracts the canopy YOU ARE GOING. I doubt that you could hang on to the stairs if the main canopy streamered and failed to inflate.

You agree Airtwardo?

377



sure looks that way ... we have to get a handle finally on the actual forces involved and some comparisons to smoke jumping and c47 military drops with gear ... actual numbers.

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skyjack71

Oh MY GOD. I never knew him to look like that. It looks like he had some missing teeth and why his mouth was like that. He had a bridge when I met him - it was NOT removeable - had to have been expensive. If it was removeable - I never saw him without it.

I came back after I got over the initial shock. I never knew him without Gray hair and I never saw his hair like that at all - very curly and he looked so gaunt - spooky is the only word I have. He had that scar where a tuff of hair had been picked out or removed.

He looked so old - and the close hair cut I never ever saw and his ears looked so large. Duane definitely had some things done. Teeth and ears.
He had told me he had his ears pinned and I didn't believe him - now I do! That picture is shocking. I am trying to figure out how to down load it and print it. I believe the daughter he helped me raise will be as shocked as I was and still am! Was this photo on intake or release?



The photo was taken at the start of his entry into the system 4-25-66 the ledger starts May 23, 1966

even that old computer should be able to save that pic, right click on it and "save as"
"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

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georger

***Oh MY GOD. I never knew him to look like that. It looks like he had some missing teeth and why his mouth was like that. He had a bridge when I met him - it was NOT removeable - had to have been expensive. If it was removeable - I never saw him without it.



Yep - those choppers are an issue just as *765%$3* described.
Yum yum. B|.

I think all can agree - DB Cooper didnt look like that! :D:D


:oWhy can't you make a post that makes sense! Was there something the FBI hid about Cooper's description - like missing teeth? Can't you even be nice - right now I am in shock. If you had seen this photo - WHY did you not post it?

Why did the FBI refuse to allow me to see the photo. I do not know HOW Shutter got it, but if some of you had seen this - WHY conceal it from me?
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

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Jo wrote
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Why did the FBI refuse to allow me to see the photo. I do not know HOW Shutter got it, but if some of you had seen this - WHY conceal it from me?



Why conceal? This question coming from Jo? How incredibly ironic.

377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

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377

Jo wrote

Quote

Why did the FBI refuse to allow me to see the photo. I do not know HOW Shutter got it, but if some of you had seen this - WHY conceal it from me?



Why conceal? This question coming from Jo? How incredibly ironic.

377



I can tell you that I have had this photo and other documentation for about 8 hours now, this is news to about 99%

End message......
"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

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mrshutter45

***Jo wrote

Quote

Why did the FBI refuse to allow me to see the photo. I do not know HOW Shutter got it, but if some of you had seen this - WHY conceal it from me?



Why conceal? This question coming from Jo? How incredibly ironic.

377


I can tell you that I have had this photo and other documentation for about 8 hours now, this is news to about 99%

End message......

Roger. Wilco. 99. 44. 88.

32.
:|

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georger

*********There are only two possible answers on the briefcase and dummy chute. Either Cooper tossed them from the jet, or he somehow took them with him all the way to the ground. Let's call 'Tossed' by A, and 'Carried' by B.

A: Tossed. Entirely possible. But neither has been discovered on the ground.

B: Carried. Couple of minor problems here, too. Posts from 377 and others have said this could be dangerous because it could make your fall unstable with such a bulky load on your chest. So what are some of the possible answers?



Hmmm now we have SafecrackingBlevins PLF!

Are you up on your permutations/combinations?

N!

A or B .... or A, B, AB, BA ...

4! = 4x3x2 = 24 possibilities.

Hmmmm. A paradox. :o:D:ph34r:

Dont let your theories slap you up side of the head, as you fall,
LOST.

Think about it! :P:D

oo oo ... what became of his choppers? That's false teeth. ?

[:/]

I was just out changing the oil in the bike thinking about that very thing...I'd say at LEAST that many possibilities!

A lot depends on DBC's experience, knowledge and intentions, without a clue as to the facts surrounding those variables...the combination of possibilities is huge.

Tie it to himself?
~As I said earlier, that's not as easy as it sounds.

Fabricate a 'drop line' securing the package(s) to the end?
~If not done right that could cause significant problems with canopy deployment if in freefall. As mentioned possible problems on landing. Less so maybe if pulling while on the step but a knowledgeable skydiver most likely would not do that. A Smoke jumper-maybe.

Tie some & hang onto some?
~Could be done, but he'd have to have been a jumper AND have a cool head & strong grip.

The list of 'possibilities' is vast... without knowing his background the list of 'probabilities' is pretty short.

Im beginning to agree - - -

Im also finding myself revisiting those 'forces' the Boeing guys
talked about (swore had to be a fact!). This was no casual
jump from a C47 ... either Cooper was aware of the difference
or he wasn't!


Again the variables come into play with regard to DBC's actual knowledge, both of jumping & the aircraft operating parameters.

Personally...I wouldn't pull off the step, especially if I were gambling one one chute only. Knowing that the airspeed was faster than my terminal velocity - I would want to 'slow down' in freefall prior to deployment. That would reduce the forces on the nylon, those things have been known to break lines and/or blow panels.

However if DBC were clueless to that, he might want to pull off the step thinking it might simulate a C47 static-line drop like in the movies

The opening shock will clear your sinuses...but I doubt one could break a hip. The harness spreads out the effect concentrating it from the shoulders down through the leg straps. I've gotten some fairly impressive bruises from 'snot-knocker' openings on round reserves years ago....and lost a shoe that was tied on pretty tight.

COULD he 'hang on' to a briefcase?
Depend on the weight I guess..heck the handle might not take the G's :ph34r:



http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=2915781;search_string=that%20kinda%20hurt;#2915781
~there is a pic attached to the initial post in the above linked thread. That's a piece that's rated @ 2500lbs. i believe, the canopy opened so hard & fast that I broke the riser.

I was sore for a few days..but if that was my ONLY chute - ick










~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

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