DB Cooper

[skyjack71 0]

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Seafirst Bank may have recorded the numbers in advance, I will give you that. But you do not know the size of the money bundles. Most sources say they did approximately 100 twenty-dollar bills per bundle, varying that number a bit as they packaged the money.

ONLY a BLOOMING idiot could possibly believe what you just stated above!

Do YOU read and COMPREHEND what you wrote above? 100 twenty dollar bills is 1/3 of an inch thick (appox). WOULD any one here CALL 1/3 of an inch
A BUNDLE? Would any one here even think about putting a rubber band around this small stack of bills.

If you compress it enough it is only 1/4 of an inch. Perhaps one of those small green rubber band and it would still curl.

Do yourself a little experiment!
Take 100 one dollar bills and see what happens if you put a rubber band around them.

Quote

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[skyjack71 0]

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Jo serves up an abundance of anonymous mystery players. Night Clerk, VIPs, and now some bank officials who packed the Seafirst currency?

I like clear sunlight. Jo apparently prefers fog.

377

OH! You are having fun with that one aren't you. VIP - well, that one is my secret and NO one anyone would call a VIP other than maybe myself.

Night Clerk - well, he does exist and is still living in China.

Seafirst Bank Official!
I never said it was a Seafirst Bank Official - lets climb the ladder a little. NO NO keep going on up the ladder - yea, that's it, just a little bit higher!

NO NO go a little higher!

Quick LOOK behind you!

Hope you have your chute on!

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[matthewcline 0]

I"m beginning to think Knoss either hacked Jo's account, or they are now one and the same.

Robert B, I don't think your pull and extract from the stirs scenario bodes well for a seasoned, or marginally trained, Paratrooper, Smoke Jumper, or Skydiver.

Backing down the stairs seems like a person who has never jumped before. Plus, the hunched over comments don't seem to fit with my experience of 65lbs of chute on my back and 110+lbs of gear on my front, we tended to arch are back to try an stand up. Of course, Cooper didn't have that much weight on (That we know of) and would not be hunched by what weight he did have.

A side step might be the more appropriate method used, and has been discussed in Mil Working Groups as a good movement technique. At the bottom step, turn 90 degrees and freefall forward towards the tail.

Clear the A/C, 3 to 5 seconds, and pull, no need even to count. Exit, be stable, arch-look-reach-pull.

Matt

An Instructors first concern is student safety.
So, start being safe, first!!!

[377 20]

Quote

Quote

Jo serves up an abundance of anonymous mystery players. Night Clerk, VIPs, and now some bank officials who packed the Seafirst currency?

I like clear sunlight. Jo apparently prefers fog.

377

OH! You are having fun with that one aren't you. VIP - well, that one is my secret and NO one anyone would call a VIP other than maybe myself.

Night Clerk - well, he does exist and is still living in China.

Seafirst Bank Official!
I never said it was a Seafirst Bank Official - lets climb the ladder a little. NO NO keep going on up the ladder - yea, that's it, just a little bit higher!

NO NO go a little higher!

Quick LOOK behind you!

Hope you have your chute on!

Jo,

You have honed teasing to a fine art. You could teach those Vegas girls a few tricks. .

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[skyjack71 0]

Quote

I"m beginning to think Knoss either hacked Jo's account, or they are now one and the same.
Matt

Not hardly Matt, I have iota communication with the man.
He cost me a lot of yrs and hardship, but I believe MY battle is WON!

Knoss was a rocky and horrible detour for many years - one that cost me a lot of yrs and his actions only caused the FBI to look the other way.

Wish you had been around since the beginning when JT was giving me hard time. One does NOT have to agree with my views to realize what he was doing. You didn't allow Knoss to get away with thowing shit on the wall!
Between you and Mrsshutter you kept Knoss on a short leash and being kind to me at the same time.

A heart felt thanks to many of the others also - I can't remember all of the names so again just THANK YOU ALL!

Not saying farewell - NOT just yet, but I have been heard and that is what counts...the BEST is yet to come!

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[matthewcline 0]

I hope it all works out.

If Duane was Cooper, then I hope the big holes in the theory will be detailed, if the FBI makes that their call.

If they can't, then we can never be 100% sure.

For me, there just isn't the evidence for it yet.

Matt

An Instructors first concern is student safety.
So, start being safe, first!!!

[georger 197]

Quote

Quote

Seafirst Bank may have recorded the numbers in advance, I will give you that. But you do not know the size of the money bundles. Most sources say they did approximately 100 twenty-dollar bills per bundle, varying that number a bit as they packaged the money.

ONLY a BLOOMING idiot could possibly believe what you just stated above!

Do YOU read and COMPREHEND what you wrote above? 100 twenty dollar bills is 1/3 of an inch thick (appox). WOULD any one here CALL 1/3 of an inch
A BUNDLE? Would any one here even think about putting a rubber band around this small stack of bills.

If you compress it enough it is only 1/4 of an inch. Perhaps one of those small green rubber band and it would still curl.

Do yourself a little experiment!
Take 100 one dollar bills and see what happens if you put a rubber band around them.

Quote

Funny! Each bill is .0043" thick x 100 =
.43" thick. Just less than 1/2 inch.

Larry talked to the bank people involved - the details
are in the thread. Some small bundles with bands
were grouped and the group rebanded .. paper
straps were not used at the bank. Ckret also talked to
Brian and his mother and affirmed they saw no paper
strapping of any kind on their end. Just band remnants..

Pretty funny Jo! Sometimes you are
good! Have a nice weekend.

Bruce: I will get you that timeline. Im just swamped
right now. Have you tried Sluggo's site? I dont
recall if its there or not. I will asap ... sorry.

[Amazon 7]

Quote

Quote

Quote

Robert99 says in part:

Quote

'Usually, the early zero-zero ejection seat would eject through the canopy (to save some time)...'

Oh my God. Tell me there was a device on this seat that protected the pilot somehow from the canopy, besides his helmet.

It's elementary Blevins. The overhead part of the canopy was made of a frangible material and a "spike" would be mounted on the top portion of the ejection seat so that it contacted and shattered the canopy first. By the time (a very, very small fraction of a second) the pilot got to where the canopy had been, all he had to be concerned about was all the shards from the canopy that were flying around plus the problem that caused him to eject in the first place.

I am aware of quite a few ejections through the canopy that did not have any problems from that source.

Robert99

Thank you for your answer. I was just wondering.

A different solution UK style... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L0m6UEFaWvE

[skyjack71 0]

Belvins stated:
"Seafirst Bank may have recorded the numbers in advance, I will give you that. But you do not know the size of the money bundles. Most sources say they did approximately 100 twenty-dollar bills per bundle, varying that number a bit as they packaged the money".

Georger replied:
"Larry talked to the bank people involved - the details
are in the thread. Some small bundles with bands
were grouped and the group rebanded .. paper
straps were not used at the bank. Ckret also talked to
Brian and his mother and affirmed they saw no paper
strapping of any kind on their end. Just band remnants."


JO STATES:

The banking personnel actually helped pack the money and they claim to remember these fact Larry reported? Since the answer I received from a very reliable source - gave a different story and the FBI also told a different story - who are we going to believe? The evidence (the money) speaks!

The packet papers would deteriorate much faster than the money, but Larry states Brian's mother remembered no bands - how could she remember something she could not see? IS this what Larry based his reply on and not on the banking personnel?

CHEAP Paper deteriorates very rapidly when exposed to mold, water, dirt, mites - etc. Where was the money prior to being found at Tena's

If you and Kaye actually examined the remnants of the money - and I do believe Kaye's statement was relatively accurate.

Ask him about the money and his opinion of the banding (in person) - note to him the difference between packets and bundles. You supposedly are on good terms with him.

FRANKLY I do not take Larry Carr's word for ANYTHING - not when I have PERSONALLY caught him in misnomers in providing info. and inappropriate conduct regarding me.

Now a QUESTION for you!
Clarify or verify what I am stating below:

I was told the money did NOT go on the PLANE in a whitish bank bag (technical if one wishes to play with word the bank bag did go with the money) - but before it was taken to the plane it was put inside of another container. Cooper had asked for a Napsack - so they used the next best thing they were able to acquire. Witnesses watched that chute and bag go back to Cooper!


DID Tina not have to walk right past the passengers to get the equipment and ransom to Cooper - OR have I gotten something ELSE wrong?

Since my source was very reliable why has the FBI continued to claim the money was in the BANK GAG - OK techically it was.

In 1996 after I found Himmelsbach and before the FBI ever came to talk to me - I had made some donations to the Helping Hands Mission and I had only taken the bag about a wk before I was talking to Mr. H about this. As you know I knew little about the crime and I described a satchel Duane would NOT let me throw away and noted that he mentioned it used to have a shoulder strap. Mr. H told me it wasn't important and said the money went out in a bank bag.
I saw the bank bag in 1990 when I asked Duane what it was and the satchel just showed up in the house. I just did NOT question things - and hell I didn't even remember at that time that Cooper jumped out of a plane with a bank Bag - last thing to ever enter my head....as he had only been on the machine for a short time and I worked 10 hrs a day 6 days a wk.

The bank bag: I will swear under oath and with a lie detector that the bank bag was in the console/cooler between the two captain seats of the van.
This was right after he made a trip to a bank deposit box in Omaha (charging the a one way ticket to the credit card) early 1990. He had taken me there in 1980 - after the money find - back then you could pay a safe deposit box forward for 10 yrs.

I would be unaware of the new box until after his death and would NOT have known about it had there not been a receipt for it in his wallet with the key. Only thing in it you all know about....he had opened the box in 1990 after acquiring his John Collins drivers license risking being found out to do so.

Sorry - I am on my soap box tonight. These are some final things I need HONEST opinions on - NOT put downs. I have NOT made things fit - but they do fit!

Most of this crap I told to Himmelsbach before I ever spoke with the active FBI. Most all of it is on a floppy that was in my - word processor - on a floppy I have nothing to read it with anymore. I still have the floppies and some where in all of this crap is a printed copy of it. ALL dated before I ever went public and prior to only vague knowlege of the crime...I didn't have a computer until 2000. The first computer was also a floppy...but one could not exchange disks between the two.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[BobKnoss 0]

Duane went down the stairs face first. He jumped off the second to bottom stair and the stairs came back up and hit him in the leg. McCoy learned from this and backed down. Truth.

Duane pocketed some cash and buried the rest under a tree in a milk can using a shovel he found at an abandoned farm. When he came back to dig up the money he could not find the tree. A flood had changed the course of the river. Truth.

The money arrived at Tenna Bar by natural means, as a result of the same flood by all logic. These are facts of the matter of the DB Cooper hijacking executed by a group of pilots from the FAA with the assistance of specific FBI Special Agents, orchestrated by Richard Floyd McCoy, Jr., and a certain group of former pilot friends of mine. Truth.

These are facts as relayed to me by the parties involved. Anything else is mere speculation or cover up. This is what really happened.

Now listen to the sooth sayers and story spinsters try to attack something so simple as the truth with accusations and uninformed fantasies that can never be substantiated. What I say could be verified by many insiders, they just will not speak. I will. It was a Tricky Dicky authorization of a ploy for a different purpose.

And that's the truth. So help me, God.

[Amazon 7]

Question, When people in the MKULTRA test drop acid to they see GOD???

[skyjack71 0]

Quote

Tom Kaye’s comments on the quote, via email:

Quote

'Well nothing we came up regarding the bill stack was CONCLUSIVE so let me state that right off the bat.

The money we examined was sort of adhered to the other bills in the stack and when they were separated, in some places a stack of bill chunks came with the single bill. You could see that the bills were all lined up one below the other when they were buried.[RED] The float tests we did showed that the money fanned out within minutes of becoming soaked. Any movement down a river etc would disorient the bill stack and you wouldn't expect them to all line back up again if they landed on a beach. [/RED]

[BLUE]So we think that this indicates that they did not float on to Tena Bar. Certainly you would not expect this result after going through a dredge[/BLUE]. We can not come up with a NATURAL means to get the money from Ariel to Tena. That doesn't mean it’s impossible, just that we can see no sensible way to connect those two dots unless the flight path info was wrong (we think the flight path is fine). If it’s unlikely to be natural, then[RED] the other two choices are mechanical or people[/RED]. Of those two, people would be the odds on favorite. If you like 'people' then your choices are Cooper himself or a hiker or forest service guy in the woods finds the money. Of those choices, Cooper probably edges out the random hiker since the hiker would have had to find the money before the rubber bands degraded within a few months. Given the fact there was no chute found etc, that throws some more weight on the Cooper side.

This is a chain of decisions made using weighted arguments. This is the way we weight them. If someone else weighs them differently at any point, then they would come to an arguably different conclusion. Gray's book translated some of our research well and other parts were misconstrued. We don't normally make public statements, but in order to set the record straight, we will answer questions regarding things in the book. This is one of those issues; feel free to post this in its entirety in the forum...'

The Cooper Research Team
Tom Kaye, Alan Stone, Carol Abraczinskas

[RED] I HAVE SAID THIS FOR 17 YRS![/RED] NO ONE HEARD ME.

I was very upset with the crew in 2001 - they did it their way and I got fed up and walked away - they did not take me there according to my memory....but, they were not investigators. They didn't realize I needed to go forward the way I did in 1979 with Weber. It was after we left Tena bar along the river by car that I told Himmelsbach - (we were in the back seat) - "those buildings - I know those buildings". He told me that we could have arrived at Tena's bar from that direction. And then I got it! BUT not until I went back in 2010 ALL BY MY SELF! I didn't even have to go back to Tena's bar - just the tressel or underpass and seeing the 2 directions Tena's bar could have been approached by - was ALL I needed. I was at peace with that part.

There are 3 ways to approach Tena's bar. 1. from the north like the crew did. 2. from the Red Lion along the river 3. Another street north of the road along the river and that is how Duane took me and it connected to the road the crew took Himmelsbach and I to the Red Lion.

I did NOT have to go all the way back to Tena's bar at that point. I knew I would be able to get on my plane and go home and know I DID REMEMBER! I WAS NOT WRONG! I am a Loner & not a social animal - why I fight things with a KEYBOARD! People confuse me - they interupt my thoughts instead of waiting for me to speak or ask a question.
I had no map of Vancouver - I was at the mercy of a driver.

My viusal memory gets sidetrack by changes. Seeing something ONE time and then to be able to go back yrs and yrs later...most individual cannot do that.
In 2001 I was at the mercy of the crew and that was a problem plus no map.

My input into starting from The Dalles meant nothing to anyone other than everything to my visual memory. I did NOT have a map. My words trying to explain things and my need to go back to point a to start to point b....did not sink in to anyone. Too many people, no map, cameras - I will not do that again. Too many people interrupting and asking questions that had NEVER live in the area...and who I did NOT expect to be mind readers. The driver had ONLY been there 2 yrs??? THAT was our guide!

I did NOT have the money in 1997 to go out there, but I should have asked for help instead of waiting for the FBI.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[skyjack71 0]

YOU ARE THE REASON THE FBI BACKED AWAY - OR A GAME PLAYER OF SOME KIND! I CALL IT SICK!

I have your emails and Doug has your emails. I sent copies to Doug by using Color for what I was using for bait and another color for what you had told me. When it was a phone call I immediately emailed Doug or gave him a call about what you said....you stopped after you realized what I was doing.
I mention Tommy Gunn - you had never heard of Tommy Gunn and then 3 months later Max is Tommy Gunn! I talked about a dairy in Cames area and months later you put the money in milk can!

Duane used the word BUCKET - not milk can!

When you could harass me no more with your crap - you found me on line. Then you made chaos with your tales in the threads - you tried to destroy ever movement I made forward.
YOU cannot hurt me or anyone any more!

SCAT! you are just a ferral alley cat and you follow in the shadows waiting for a morsel you can pounce upon. Beware of the man behind you with the BIG BOOTS!
.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[Robert99 37]

Quote

A different solution UK style... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L0m6UEFaWvE

I think the Brits could have accomplished the same thing using only one stick of dynamite rather than a whole box of it.

Robert99

[skyjack71 0]

Blevins stated:

Quote

Questions to Jo: Did this bank bag have 'Seafirst Bank' printed on it? Did it have leather straps? Rataczak says he actually saw the bag coming on board and said it had leather straps. A quote from his testimony:

Jo Stated:
The conversation I had with the Co-pilot was LONG before that interview! YOU are aware I tried to describe the bag and that the pilot finished the description, yet the FBI insisted it went out of the plane in the Bank Bag which technically it did up it was inside of another bag!

In a phone conversation the co-pilot and I were finishing each others sentences....it was the first time anyone had listened to me. I think the CO-pilot was positive in that moment that he was talking to the widow of Cooper. I will forever remember how he ended that conversation, but that is between he and I.

He and I describe the exact same container...he finished with the color. I will never for get that moment and what he said after that! I will say the best word for the container was SATCHEL!


BELOW BLEVINS says this - just the way he TWISTED the word of the 2 old woman!

Quote

Second, it is doubtful that if Cooper made it to the ground that he would attempt to walk out of the area carrying the money in such a bag, since it IS so recognizable. And yet Jo claims that such a bag was later found in a cooler that belonged to Duane Weber.

Jo replies:
I NEVER SAID THAT WAS THE BAG IN THE COOLER

THE GRAY WHITISH BANK BAG WAS IN THE COOLER, THE OTHER CONTAINER A SATCHEL WAS AT THE HOUSE. NO PRINTING ON THE SATCHEL... BECAUSE IT WAS NOT AN OFFICIAL BANK CONTAINER - SOMETHING SOMEONE IMPROVISED AS A CONTAINER TO PACIFY THE HIGHJACKER.

SEE WHAT I MEAN BLEVINS YOU ARE NOTHING BUT A SCAM ARTIST AND THIEF! YOU ALSO DO NOT UNDERSTAND (yea you do understand so you twist thingS to make it sound like he said, she said!) Just exactly the way U did those 2 old ladies!

YOU are absurd - and you cannot even be original!

Hell, It has been spelled out in the thread and in conversations with the co-pilot - by ME! DO you think the FBI ever listened? Hell NO, but you can bet CARR is writing a book and using research supposedly done for the FBI for his own benefit!

NO one for YRs would listen to me about the bag (the satchel) - I told Himmelsbach about it almost from the beginning! If he had told me it was important I probably could have retrieved it from their store - just a few block from my home at that time and it was a small town.

The gray whitish bag I only saw in 2000 and I would assume it might have been buried in the van when I sold it - but, I did not who Dan Cooper was and I never saw the bag again.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[skyjack71 0]

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Skyjack71: I'm not going to quote your entire post back there. But I'm surprised you took the email I received from Tom Kaye regarding the Tena Bar money and tried to twist it into your story somehow.

Quote

'I've been saying this for 17 years...(?)'

I thought it was a paper bag tossed into the river? Are you saying now that you and Duane visited Tena Bar before the money was discovered and that Duane possibly buried the money there pre-Brian Ingram?

The Citizen Sleuths make it plain they don't believe the money washed up from anywhere else. That's what Kaye is saying when he refers to 'non-natural means' on the delivery of the money, although he stops short of calling it an actual plant. So unless you are saying 'plant' and not 'tossed into river,' then they really DON'T agree with you.

[RED]WHAT THE HELL DO YOU THINK I HAVE BEEN SAYING FOR 17 YRS?

1. STOP ACROSS FROM THE PDX AND GOES DOWN TO THE RIVER.
I COULDN'T SEE HIM1

2. TENA'S BAR - BUT I DIDN'T KNOW IT WAS TENA' BAR - HE GOES DOWN TO THE BEACH BY HIMSELF AND INSTRUCTS ME TO STAY IN THE CAR. - A PAPER BAG IS MOVED FROM HIS SIDE OF THE CAR TO MY SIDE WHEN HE RETURNS TO THE CAR.

3. THE RED LION AND I DIDN'T SEE HIM THROW A BAG IN, BUT HE WAS STANDING ON EDGE OF SEAWALL OR WHATEVER IT IS CALLED. I ASKED WHAT HE WAS DOING - HE SAID WATCHING THAT BAG FLOAT DOWN THE RIVER. I THOUGHT HE THREW GARBAGE IN THE RIVER AND WAS UPSET - EVEN CHECKED THE BARRELS AND THEY WERE ALL EMPTY.[/RED]

Too tired to continue to battle with the like of you - I really feel sorry for those 2 old ladies you made such fools out of and you are so detemined you even take the things I have said for 17 yrs and twist them to suit you own needs!

I have told this story over and over for 17 yrs and since 2000 tried to tell it to anyone on the computer who would listen.

I have to finish this NOW, because there is NOT much time left and this thread has been a total waste of my time with someone like you - you can't keep the most minor much less important details correct.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[skyjack71 0]

Quote

Jo: Citizen Sleuths DON'T believe the money was put into a bag and washed up later at Tena Bar. That was the whole point of Tom Kaye's email...as well as his quotes from Gray's book. He believes human intervention was involved, but stops short of actually saying 'planted at or near the site money was found'.

Hey...maybe the CS folks are wrong and the money washed up there somehow. I'm just saying they don't agree with that assessment, so you should stop trying to make it sound as if they do.

WHEW! I didn't say a bag washed up on Tena's bar. I figured that paper sack and whatever was in it might have ended up on the bar. I have had individuals study the currents and the flood - and it was feasible, but at the same time I had told about his going down to the beach with trees and a wide opening, a house to the left and a fence with a gate. Trees at the parking area and along the fence area on the beach side of the house. I described the house as it looked in 1979 and what on the road across from the house. There had been pastures and clear land. I did NOT go down to the beach with Duane - I stayed in the car as I was told.

One site placed Duane - one where I know he threw the bag in the water and 2 other places I did NOT go down to the water with him and stayed in the car as ordered.

There was a 4th place - the Green Tank which I did get out of the car and I have described that many times. I found out where the tank USED to be from a developer on the river. Her husband had ariels taken of the property while the tank was in place, but she never sent any of them to me. I still have her card and phone number in the trip file.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[skyjack71 0]

How do I produce a witness to a trip he took me on? We stayed in hotels but who remembers the guests? The only proofs I had I didn't understand! There are a few things left he had in that drawer and the FBI has NEVER contacted me about if they mean anything.

Mouse, the glass, 2 watches (not kept in drawer) - watches he owned prior to our marriage. YOU Blevins are a freak - who preys on victims. I have tried to tell the FBI a first person story and to tell the thread - but NO one hears me.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[MeyerLouie 5]

Quote

Quote

If you exited from the top of the stairs your moment arm (and hence stair deflection) would a lot less than from the bottom. Robert 99, do you agree?

377

377,

Agreed.

This almost certainly means that the pressure bump was the point where Cooper jumped.

Further, the FBI 727 sled tests reportedly (by the members of the 305 flight crew) matched the pressure bump when the sled slid off the end of the stairs.

So it seems to be reasonable to assume that Cooper jumped from the last step of the stairs. This would also give him the most head room with the stairs down as far as his weight could get them.

Robert99

I may be out of sequence time-wise, but I thought 377 said it was a possibility that DBC went to the bottom of the stairs, bounced up and down to cause a pressure bump, then minutes later, returned to the bottom of the stairs and carefully did a free-fall off the bottom of the stairs -- without creating a pressure bump.

MeyerLouie

[MeyerLouie 5]

Quote

Duane went down the stairs face first. He jumped off the second to bottom stair and the stairs came back up and hit him in the leg. McCoy learned from this and backed down. Truth.

Duane pocketed some cash and buried the rest under a tree in a milk can using a shovel he found at an abandoned farm. When he came back to dig up the money he could not find the tree. A flood had changed the course of the river. Truth.

The money arrived at Tenna Bar by natural means, as a result of the same flood by all logic. These are facts of the matter of the DB Cooper hijacking executed by a group of pilots from the FAA with the assistance of specific FBI Special Agents, orchestrated by Richard Floyd McCoy, Jr., and a certain group of former pilot friends of mine. Truth.

These are facts as relayed to me by the parties involved. Anything else is mere speculation or cover up. This is what really happened.

Now listen to the sooth sayers and story spinsters try to attack something so simple as the truth with accusations and uninformed fantasies that can never be substantiated. What I say could be verified by many insiders, they just will not speak. I will. It was a Tricky Dicky authorization of a ploy for a different purpose.

And that's the truth. So help me, God.

While I may not agree with everything you say BK, you are one of just a handful of individuals whose theory does not contradict or ignore the tattered, pitted, worn condition of the bills. My question is: would a submerged money bag (in a milk carton) for an extended period of time cause the bills to become pitted and tattered? The other possibility is that the money bag tossed and tumbled on the bottom of the Columbia River, thus causing the worn state of the bills. Would just being submerged for an extended time cause the deteriorated, pitted condition of the bills.

The theory that the money arrived at T-Bar by non-natural means is so incredibly unlikely and so remotely improbable. More on that later, if need be. It seems possible that the money arrived at T-Bar by natural means via a flood event -- as you say.

MeyerLouie

[MeyerLouie 5]

My responses are in bold italics. MeyerLouie
_________________________________________________

Quote

Quote

Question, When people in the MKULTRA test drop acid to they see GOD???

Not generally. But I've heard that sometimes they see THEMSELVES as God.

Questions to Jo: Did this bank bag have 'Seafirst Bank' printed on it? Did it have leather straps? Rataczak says he actually saw the bag coming on board and said it had leather straps. A quote from his testimony:

Quote

'Another time (the crew got nervous) was when the money that was to be brought in by Tina was brought in a hap sack, a bag. I’m not quite sure how to describe the bag other than it was *a very coarse hap sack with a leather shoulder strap across it and a leather handle and the $200,000 was in that. He wanted a hiking-type knapsack, but knapsacks weren’t as popular then as they are nowadays, where every kid in the street has one. But obviously someone in the bank had the bag. Those were times when we were afraid we might only hear one syllable of the word ‘bang.’ We might only hear the first letter or two of it. (Refers to Cooper becoming so angry he might set off the bomb)'

*italics added. Some possible examples attached.

Notes: If the picture of the bank bag with the leather handle is a fairly accurate rendition of how the money was delivered to Cooper, then I have some thoughts.

First, those bags are almost universally recognizable. Few if any people have not seen a transport guard carrying one into or out of a bank or store.

Second, it is doubtful that if Cooper made it to the ground that he would attempt to walk out of the area carrying the money in such a bag, since it IS so recognizable. And yet Jo claims that such a bag was later found in a cooler that belonged to Duane Weber.
_________________________________________________

I don't know Blevins, maybe he used the other bag to carry the money in, or crafted some kind of carrier that looked like a knapsack a hiker would be wearing, one that would conceal the bank bag. That wouldn't be that hard to do.

MeyerLouie
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Well...just exactly HOW did he manage to transport the stolen money (in its original container) such a great distance without being noticed? It's like doing the hottest purse snatching in history and then keeping the purse they are looking for. Not smart.

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I don't know Blevins, maybe he buried or hid the money bag, then came back later to get it -- after things calmed down a bit. That's not a stretch Blevins, it wouldn't be that hard to do.

MeyerLouie_________________________________________________

The most logical assumption is that Cooper would have immediately transferred the money to a container OTHER than the one given to him by the FBI. Maybe the chute container? Maybe something else. But la-de-da-ing across the country packing a REAL bank bag with $200,000 stuffed inside? Perhaps with the name 'Seafirst Bank' printed on it? The very bag provided by the FBI? Hmmm....

Extremely unlikely at best.

[MeyerLouie 5]

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Tom Kaye’s comments on the quote, via email:

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'Well nothing we came up regarding the bill stack was CONCLUSIVE so let me state that right off the bat.

The money we examined was sort of adhered to the other bills in the stack and when they were separated, in some places a stack of bill chunks came with the single bill. You could see that the bills were all lined up one below the other when they were buried.[RED] The float tests we did showed that the money fanned out within minutes of becoming soaked. Any movement down a river etc would disorient the bill stack and you wouldn't expect them to all line back up again if they landed on a beach. [/RED]

[BLUE]So we think that this indicates that they did not float on to Tena Bar. Certainly you would not expect this result after going through a dredge[/BLUE]. We can not come up with a NATURAL means to get the money from Ariel to Tena. That doesn't mean it’s impossible, just that we can see no sensible way to connect those two dots unless the flight path info was wrong (we think the flight path is fine). If it’s unlikely to be natural, then[RED] the other two choices are mechanical or people[/RED]. Of those two, people would be the odds on favorite. If you like 'people' then your choices are Cooper himself or a hiker or forest service guy in the woods finds the money. Of those choices, Cooper probably edges out the random hiker since the hiker would have had to find the money before the rubber bands degraded within a few months. Given the fact there was no chute found etc, that throws some more weight on the Cooper side.

This is a chain of decisions made using weighted arguments. This is the way we weight them. If someone else weighs them differently at any point, then they would come to an arguably different conclusion. Gray's book translated some of our research well and other parts were misconstrued. We don't normally make public statements, but in order to set the record straight, we will answer questions regarding things in the book. This is one of those issues; feel free to post this in its entirety in the forum...'

The Cooper Research Team
Tom Kaye, Alan Stone, Carol Abraczinskas

[RED] I HAVE SAID THIS FOR 17 YRS![/RED] NO ONE HEARD ME.

I was very upset with the crew in 2001 - they did it their way and I got fed up and walked away - they did not take me there according to my memory....but, they were not investigators. They didn't realize I needed to go forward the way I did in 1979 with Weber. It was after we left Tena bar along the river by car that I told Himmelsbach - (we were in the back seat) - "those buildings - I know those buildings". He told me that we could have arrived at Tena's bar from that direction. And then I got it! BUT not until I went back in 2010 ALL BY MY SELF! I didn't even have to go back to Tena's bar - just the tressel or underpass and seeing the 2 directions Tena's bar could have been approached by - was ALL I needed. I was at peace with that part.

There are 3 ways to approach Tena's bar. 1. from the north like the crew did. 2. from the Red Lion along the river 3. Another street north of the road along the river and that is how Duane took me and it connected to the road the crew took Himmelsbach and I to the Red Lion.

I did NOT have to go all the way back to Tena's bar at that point. I knew I would be able to get on my plane and go home and know I DID REMEMBER! I WAS NOT WRONG! I am a Loner & not a social animal - why I fight things with a KEYBOARD! People confuse me - they interupt my thoughts instead of waiting for me to speak or ask a question.
I had no map of Vancouver - I was at the mercy of a driver.

My viusal memory gets sidetrack by changes. Seeing something ONE time and then to be able to go back yrs and yrs later...most individual cannot do that.
In 2001 I was at the mercy of the crew and that was a problem plus no map.

My input into starting from The Dalles meant nothing to anyone other than everything to my visual memory. I did NOT have a map. My words trying to explain things and my need to go back to point a to start to point b....did not sink in to anyone. Too many people, no map, cameras - I will not do that again. Too many people interrupting and asking questions that had NEVER live in the area...and who I did NOT expect to be mind readers. The driver had ONLY been there 2 yrs??? THAT was our guide!

I did NOT have the money in 1997 to go out there, but I should have asked for help instead of waiting for the FBI.

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So, according to the Cooper Research Team's "non-natural means" theory, it was most likely Cooper himself who re-found his stolen loot, before the rubber bands deteriorated, and then he planted the 3 bundles at T-Bar. Did Cooper reclaim the loot in the woods (where he hid or buried it, only to come back later and retrieve it) or did he find the money in the River?

Either way, I see a problem. If Cooper concealed the money in the woods -- maybe he stuffed the money bag under a log or buried it under some pine needles or even buried it underground somewhere, with the money wrapped up inside the bag) -- then how did the bills get so tattered and worn and frayed? Seems to me the bills would be fairly well protected from the elements if they were buried in some (any) sort of protective sheathing -- like the bag. Using the bag to contain the money would have also protected it. Hence, there is no way the bills could have become so tattered and worn if buried or concealed in the woods, in the bag.

The other problem: the loot originally ended up in the River. What are the chances that Cooper re-found his money after it had floated down the River for some length of time, then took 3 bundles of it and purposely planted them at T-Bar? I say that's about as far-fetched and unlikely as it gets. The chances he found the money again in the River are next to none, and even if he did, would he give up nearly $6000 of the loot he risked his life for just to throw us all off and say, "Ha Ha on you!" Put those two very, highly unlikely events together, and you've got something so far-fetched and impossible that's it's laughable. In fact, I think it takes more work to believe the "non-natural means" theory than it does to believe the natural means theory.

Another point, Kaye's water tests assume to bills free-floated in the water -- the bills were not enclosed in a container -- like a bag. TK concludes the bills must have ended up at T-Bar by non-natural means since the T-Bar stacks of bills were all lined up -- and not fanned out -- which would have happened if the bills had been floating in the water.

How about entertaining the possibility that the money stacks stayed lined up because they were tightly secured in some sort of receptacle, like a money bag. I'm thinking Cooper tied up the money bag tighter than a drum with the parchute cord. Even if the bag got damaged or torn, it was so tightly wrapped and secured that most of the bills stayed intact for a long period of time, even in extreme elements. It's like using tarp to secure a load in the back of your pickup. If you don't tie that load down really tight, the wind is going to rip that tarp to shreds when you head down the freeway at 60mph. Cooper was probably thinking along the same lines when he secured the money bag with the parachute chord. He knew he really had to secure that money bag -- he was about to jump into 200 mph winds, and the bag had to hold up.

Jo: tell me again, when did you first go to Tena's Bar, and how did you know you were at the exact location called Tena's Bar?

MeyerLouie

[skyjack71 0]

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So, according to the Cooper Research Team's "non-natural means" theory, it was most likely Cooper himself who re-found his stolen loot, before the rubber bands deteriorated, and then he planted the 3 bundles at T-Bar. Did Cooper reclaim the loot in the woods (where he hid or buried it, only to come back later and retrieve it) or did he find the money in the River?

I have explained many time that Duane left me in the Motel in The Dalles and disappeared for 5 1/2 hours. He told me when we went to bed that I could sleep in the next morning as he was going to get up at 6;30 and go do something. He did NOT return until after check out time at noon - and I had call the clerk about taking our things out and she call the hwy patrol for me to see if there had been an accident

Duane showed up about 20 minutes later and he was soiled.
He put our luggage in the car and washed up and we left. I do NOT know where he went during those 5 1/2 hrs. but he said he went to see an old friend and he had died and his wife asked him to move somethings for her - and I think he said shed (but that conversation is really lost to me other than what I have stated). He said something about a leak and rotten wood. This is why I think part of the money was hid but NOT in the wood. Duane did NOT look like he had been in the woods. Probably hid in a place he knew would still be there if he wanted to go back. Duane always divided things up. How he hid things in the house - not all together. Money was put in 2 or 3 accounts & safe deposit. Now I do understand why - he could hit the safe deposit box and run if he was found out or running from the law. I think he did the same thing with the money from the skyjacking.

He and the wife of the time lived pretty good for a guy who didn't make any money the yr of 1971 and they bought things in 1972 with no credit line that was way above what was made in 1972. Two new cars - no notes - so I assume Vegas/Reno wash cash.

That same day - we went to the Bridge of the Gods, a Dam, Cames, Green Mt. & Washougal and then north to a fire tower and then he flipped me around - and we ended up back on the road that goes around Vancouver to the interstate. We started to loose daylight when he hit the area of the Lewis river. IT was about that time he told me there was little but wood till we got to Tacoma. He knew I like to nap because on open road he went WAY too fast - 85!

Some of the money must have bene damaged by the storage area. In Seattle on our last day there he disappears for another 5 1/2 hour and show up late and that is when I fixed the drink (he proved to me he had not been somewhere drinking) He was GIDDY and blew in my face after he changed and I handed him the drink. I wanted pics before we went down - and that is when the did the GERONIMO thing which I have the pic posted.

Now in retrospect I think he had spent that afternoon in a room some place sorting thru what he recovered and probably some of it was so damaged it was not spendable. He had no place to burn it so he discarded it on the RIVER before we left WA. That is what his actions and our stops say! I thought he was acting odd, but just thought he had memories from the WA area he did NOT want to share. Tossing 6 k or 12 K - would not have meant much to him at that time. We made good money that yr.....very good money.

I would have a hard time believing the NONE natural means if I had not been with him on the trip up and the trip back....but the opportunities were there. Why get caught with the money - why not put it where they might think he died - but knowing who and what Duane was before the fact and before I knew him - a STUPID thing turned out to be a LUCKY thing.
Remember the guy always ended up in prison....because he got Stupid.

P.S. While in Seattle at the Eye of the NEEDLE he bought me a OLD Black Hills gold ring for my pinky finger. I was just looking in the case at the elevator while he paid the bill - and did NOT ask for the ring as I was very conservative. I treasure that ring today and wore it all the time until a few yrs ago when it would no longer fit on my finger.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[skyjack71 0]

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Jo: tell me again, when did you first go to Tena's Bar, and how did you know you were at the exact location called Tena's Bar?

MeyerLouie

When I went there in 2001 with the documentary crew with Himmelsbach. I felt it was right, but the approach made me doubt this. I was so frustrated by the crew and the demands even though they were very nice.

I did walk with Fazion and Himmelsbach and asked some question while the crew did some other things. I asked Mr. H what was across from the river - and mentioned something Duane said, but could not remember exactly where he made that statement - still uncertain which site he made about knowing someone who used to live over there. I did make a statement regardin I didn't think it was right but, I have explained that several times as it was the approach. Not the site.

Something about the house was different, but the trees were right.
Could have been some changes to the house and all of the heavy equipment to our left as we faced the river was not there in 1979. When we left the site and drove toward the RED LION was when I asked Mr. H a question - then I realized Duane and I must have approached Tena's bar from the opposite way, but the crew also drove me some other places - so they were getting me very confused. The river site was dead on - it was what we passed on our way that made feel any doubt. It was the reverse from how Duane and I did it and Duane also used a road that ran into that road the crew used. But the road the crew took to the Red Lion was exactly as I remember it in 1979. The crew had taken me to other similar sites - and that was confusing.

There had been a flood and the equipment and the business had expanded. The parking area, the trees - the fence - the river - it was as I remembered it in 1979...trees were of course larger. I have tried to locate Fazion to ask about the shed - because for some reason my memory of 1979 involved a tool shed or something I could see that was NOT there in 2001. One of the reason I walked away from the crew and to the parking site. I had to view them as I had view Duane in 1979 - except I was sitting in a car parked to the furthest right facing the river.

I will swear till the day I die - Duane Weber walked down there and he was out of sight at one time as I could not see him from the parking site - he had gone over to the west side of the area and I could NOT see him. Note the statement about my sitting in a car to the West of the parking area in 1979 meant I did NOT have visibility I had in 2001 with the crew.

Something makes me want to believe there was a shed that kept me from seeing him...but, I have never gotten an answer to the question the existence of a shed being there in 1979 and my sitting in a car to the Right of where I stood in 2001.

WHY I have asked for old pictures of Tena's bar from 1979 and NOT arials. I can't make heads or tails out of those things.

Surely someone took pictures from the parking lot of the river around 1979 or before! Duane had also had told me there used to be a place to put money in if you went to the beach - why I connected it with his early days as a boy - but, I never did ask. I gave Duane space and perhaps that is what no one else ever gave him - his space and his thoughts. For some reason a man who had been with multiple women decided one would do for the rest of his life. I did NOT invade his past! It may also have been that my name was the same as his alias and I have thought about that many many times. When I met people my name was so common and sounded so made up - that I would hear - sure baby sure!

So often I used the name I was born with and not my married name....why when the Hwy Patrol came knocking on my door after his little venture trying to renew an old drivers license they thought he was my father. The vehicle use both of my names and was registered to me!

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[377 20]

Jo wrote

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Now in retrospect I think he had spent that afternoon in a room some place sorting thru what he recovered and probably some of it was so damaged it was not spendable. He had no place to burn it so he discarded it on the RIVER before we left WA. That is what his actions and our stops say! I thought he was acting odd, but just thought he had memories from the WA area he did NOT want to share. Tossing 6 k or 12 K - would not have meant much to him at that time. We made good money that yr.....very good money.

If that's true then Duane really blew it. There is no solid evidence tieing him to Nojack, at least nothing that could convict him. If he worried about being arrested he could have arranged for a partner to "find" the tattered bills and auction them off after settling with the insurance company over how much a finder could keep.

Some people are dumb enough to pay big bucks for a Cooper twenty.

The collectable value would have made the $200K worth waaaaay more than face value.

Duane was an antique dealer. He knew about the value of historical relics. An antique tied to a big event is worth way more than the same piece that has no story.

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2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.