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QuoteIt is also my understanding that Mr. Gray was
admitted to the FBI at Seattle simply as an observer.
He was not allowed FULL ACCESS to FBI files and all
of the evidence as has been rumored.
That was my understanding also - then there are individuals who claimed he had access to ALL of the records....very unlikely the FBI allowed him full access. Gray did tell me a little story about his ventures in the files. It was told to me in confidence and I try never to let the people down.
I have a feeling he probably told someone else - so if they breach the confidence it would not be me. I liked the kid.
He ordered fried pickles - it was huge (it was just ONE of his side orders). He has a huge appetite. He ate enough for 2 large adults. It had been a long time since I had seen anyone put that much away.
Oysters were in season and the next day he told me he went back and got another order that same night after dropping me at my home. My favorite place is closed and there is not a really good seafood place here anymore.
I watched Geoffrey Gray put away a LOT of food and then 2 hours later he goes back! WOW! Not Cooper related - but just a fun story to tell!
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber
Quote
Then again.. if all the glacial ice melted in all the glaciers that currently exist.. Florida would be a very small place around Tallahassee and sea level would be 200 feet higher. Most of the limestone in Florida formed in coral reefs when water was higher... and conversely there were reefs when it was lower as well.
A spring runs behind my house and I am on one the highest locations in my area. I am supposed to have LAKE view, and I will assure you I can hardly see the lake because of the overgrowth in the creek and that creek may pose a problem with my insurance this yr.
Spent all of SAT with guys setting up traps - Armadillos. I got a family of them back there and they were digging up against the house. That can spell big trouble with the Fla sand and septic tank lines.
One of the traps was moved when I went out this morning. They are baited with bananas and apples. That sucker had gotten the Banana without going into the trap. The peels were still inside and in the wire of the cage. The trap was still open so he was REAL gentle. It could have been a racoon - because I could NOT imagine an armadillo being able to get its snout into the small holes of the traps.
The peel was really liquidy and the banana was just sucked out of it. Better than his digging up the roots of my grass.
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber
georger 194
That was my understanding also - then there are individuals who claimed he had access to ALL of the records....very unlikely the FBI allowed him full access. Gray did tell me a little story about his ventures in the files. It was told to me in confidence and I try never to let the people down.
Yes, Gray can be very conversant. Blevins' seems to
have the idea Gray talks in one-liners, black or white;
not the case at all. Can be disarming and likeable.
I actually wondered at one point if we shouldn't have
Gray on the team for a combined effort, but I
explored that with several people who turned thumbs
down on the idea. Later, I wondered if Tom might take
Geoff on in a combined effort, but I guess that was
not to be either.
I mean it was no secret the FBI and people close to
the case were giving Geoff special considerations.
Himmelsbach for one. I wondered if we shouldn't all
be working as a team of sorts but one person turned
that idea down flat.
The first hint of a problem was over 'two types of
silver in the money' and I guess the problem had
come from me talking to Geoff?
What I had said was that there "might" be one type of
silver in residue in between the bills, if the money had
spent time in a silver bearing region like the
Washougal, and the other form resulting from silver
nitrate tests the FBI had performed on some of the
money. And possibly even a third type, depending on
sand types at Tina's Bar ... The word "might" became
"is" somehow, and that is what I called Geoff to try
and correct ... and things involving others and Gray
unraveled after that. I guess 'two types of silver'
never got corrected.
The whole thing at the time was a little confusing with
Geoff very difficult to get on the phone et cetera. This
may have been a period where he took a vacation or
something? There are posts about this in the archive.
It's a little self-serving talking about it now, in my
opinion. In the current climate, people are going to
believe what they want to believe, in any event. I am
thoroughly convinced of that and it serves no real
purpose to bring this all back up now.
Quote
The whole thing at the time was a little confusing with
Geoff very difficult to get on the phone et cetera. This may have been a period where he took a vacation or something? There are posts about this in the archive.
It's a little self-serving talking about it now, in my opinion. In the current climate, people are going to believe what they want to believe, in any event. I am thoroughly convinced of that and it serves no real purpose to bring this all back up now.
Georger I believe once the negative elements of the thread have been told to stand down that there can actually be some progress made.
The silver suspect was NOT discussed on an elementary level so individuals like myself could absorb it. Sometimes you intellectual types forget that those of us on a lower level or in other fields just do not grasp the explanations.
In elementary terms - explain the 3 types of silver that was "suspect" and how it could have got there.
Then explain what you guys decided - was there one or two kinds of silver on the money and if indeed the only way if could have got there was the fingerprint powder.
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber
In elementary terms - explain the 3 types of silver that was "suspect" and how it could have got there.
1.
Did the test comfirm 3 types, 2 types or only one type of silver?
2.
Was it ever confirmed how the silver got on the money?
I have yet to read (in all of the confusion) exactly what YOU and others DID find on that money.
It is my belief that others also never got a clear picture about the 'silver'. The stories were going ever which way!
Therefore would you please address the silver again - NOW that things are more civil and not so disruptive.
What could have been the possible reasons for the silver content?
Tina's Bar
The River
Washougal
Fingerprint chemicals
Contamination by Storage
Did the anaylsis CONFIRM it was only Fingerprint Chemicals? Was this conclusive?
My personal take:
As a layman I find it very difficult to believe the money was in the water for 8 1/2 yrs. It defies common sense.
Was the silver content even questionable - or did the team just accept the FBI's claim about the silver nitrate or did the team actually conduct a test to prove or disprove them?
Just because an agent made the claim about the print medium does not make it true. This was my problem with Carr.
It was assumed by the general public when he said something it was true - JUST SO NOT RIGHT!
A thread suggested a comic and he makes it part of the FBI profile on Cooper! What does this say about the investigative skills of the FBI and one agents ability to judge right from wrong?
1.
Did the test comfirm 3 types, 2 types or only one type of silver?
2.
Was it ever confirmed how the silver got on the money?
I have yet to read (in all of the confusion) exactly what YOU and others DID find on that money.
It is my belief that others also never got a clear picture about the 'silver'. The stories were going ever which way!
Therefore would you please address the silver again - NOW that things are more civil and not so disruptive.
What could have been the possible reasons for the silver content?
Tina's Bar
The River
Washougal
Fingerprint chemicals
Contamination by Storage
Did the anaylsis CONFIRM it was only Fingerprint Chemicals? Was this conclusive?
My personal take:
As a layman I find it very difficult to believe the money was in the water for 8 1/2 yrs. It defies common sense.
Was the silver content even questionable - or did the team just accept the FBI's claim about the silver nitrate or did the team actually conduct a test to prove or disprove them?
Just because an agent made the claim about the print medium does not make it true. This was my problem with Carr.
It was assumed by the general public when he said something it was true - JUST SO NOT RIGHT!
A thread suggested a comic and he makes it part of the FBI profile on Cooper! What does this say about the investigative skills of the FBI and one agents ability to judge right from wrong?
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber
Robert99 37
Jo writes in post #402044:
Jo writes in post #402045:
Jo, You are completely "negative" and go ballistic when something posted here does not agree with your claims about Duane Weber.
So don't get the idea that your posts are to be accepted as Absolute Truth.
Robert99
QuoteI believe that once the negative elements of the thread are told to stand down that there can actually be some progress made.
Jo writes in post #402045:
QuoteJust because an agent made the claim about the print medium does not make it true. This was my problem with Carr.
It was assumed by the general public when he said something it was true - JUST SO NOT RIGHT!
A thread suggested a comic and he makes it part of the FBI profile on Cooper! What does this say about the investigative skills of the FBI and one agents ability to judge right from wrong?
Jo, You are completely "negative" and go ballistic when something posted here does not agree with your claims about Duane Weber.
So don't get the idea that your posts are to be accepted as Absolute Truth.
Robert99
georger 194
Georger: It's funny that you now promote Citizen Sleuths, when I can go back and quote comments by you where you discount their findings, as well as Tom Kaye's credentials. Don't make me do this. There's enough problems here already. But you brought this on yourself. And now your credibility is in serious doubt.
.
.
I dont find any humor in this at all, as you do.
Once again you make a straw man, a false report, of
things I have said. I have never made any global
statement of the kind you attribute to me, above.
Why you engage in this Revisionism?
So, go back and dredge my comments up and quote
them! They dont add up to what you are now claiming
and attributing to ME! "Dont make me do this", you
say. WELL YES - DO IT!
Specially, all Ive ever said was:
_ I didnt agree with Toms propeller theory. I thought it
was a longshot at best, and Tom's own data doesn't
require a theory like that... because the theory
requires that the money at Tina Bar came up river,
from the Lewis River, etc etc etc. I have never seen
anything in the data that requires or supports that
happened..
_ I dont agree with Carol's linguistic theory about
Cooper based on the report Cooper said "American
currency", which may not even be a true account!
Farflung etal commented about this also -
_ I do not agree with Tom's 'bills in perfect alignment'
statement. Since Tom himself seems to turn around
and offer counter evidence in his graphic on actual bill
alignment. Toms own graphic does not agree with his
statement saying 'perfect alignment'. Or maybe there
is something Tom is saying I don't understand?
_ I made a number of statements regarding bill
alignments and offered photographic proof. [Tom has
always been free to come here and explain and
defend his statements - he doesn't for some reason
and that is his choice.
_ I disagree with Tom when he says the only logical
option left is 'hand burial'. I see other logical
possibilities which I and others (Robt99 etc) have
outlined numerous times ...
So Mr. Blevins, stop attributing global statements to
me I have never made. Stop throwing the baby out
with the bath water! I have made both negative and
positive (or positive and negative) statements
regarding the team's work.
Stop painting everyone and everything with your TAR
BRUSH!
georger 194
Quote
In elementary terms - explain the 3 types of silver that was "suspect" and how it could have got there.
1.
Did the test comfirm 3 types, 2 types or only one type of silver?
2.
Was it ever confirmed how the silver got on the money?
I have yet to read (in all of the confusion) exactly what YOU and others DID find on that money.
It is my belief that others also never got a clear picture about the 'silver'. The stories were going ever which way!
Therefore would you please address the silver again - NOW that things are more civil and not so disruptive.
What could have been the possible reasons for the silver content?
Tina's Bar
The River
Washougal
Fingerprint chemicals
Contamination by Storage
Did the anaylsis CONFIRM it was only Fingerprint Chemicals? Was this conclusive?
My personal take:
As a layman I find it very difficult to believe the money was in the water for 8 1/2 yrs. It defies common sense.
Was the silver content even questionable - or did the team just accept the FBI's claim about the silver nitrate or did the team actually conduct a test to prove or disprove them?
Just because an agent made the claim about the print medium does not make it true. This was my problem with Carr.
It was assumed by the general public when he said something it was true - JUST SO NOT RIGHT!
A thread suggested a comic and he makes it part of the FBI profile on Cooper! What does this say about the investigative skills of the FBI and one agents ability to judge right from wrong?
Well ... we can discuss these things if EVER GIVEN THE
CHANCE!
The answers I would give are very specific,
semi-technical, but easily explainable. This isn't
rocket science'!
Most of this was presented, discussed, and explained
before, years ago ...
I have to wonder if people even care now. Most
people now are way beyond all of that. ???
I seriously doubt for example, that Aamazon and
Farflung want to hear it again or think it even
germane! (My crystal set is more tuned to their
frequency these days and its a challenge in my mind;
and the minute we go there a lot of people will be left
behind, in the vaporous contrails ..... ) Its a vast
span to have to bridge somehow ... is what I think
about these days.
georger 194
I want you to examine my side for a moment. Consider these things:
Regina Winkles puts up a little article on Wordpress about the case. Then 400 comments show up, some with your name attached to them, some with Farf's, in fact...most of the users who inhabit this thread. The comments were extremely filthy, making hints on everything from pedophilia to my parents in Phoenix. Post after post, each worse than the last. In the end, I have to make a PDF out of the whole thing and send it to Wordpress HQ in San Francisco as well as Mark Mullenberg, co-founder of Wordpress. Then the comments are removed.
The day after I released the public version of the report on Christiansen, someone obviously from this thread posts the following review of the book by 'Max Gastineau': (Almost certainly a phony name chosen by someone who posts to this thread) I left it alone, I no longer respond to reviews.
Regina Winkles puts up a little article on Wordpress about the case. Then 400 comments show up, some with your name attached to them, some with Farf's, in fact...most of the users who inhabit this thread. The comments were extremely filthy, making hints on everything from pedophilia to my parents in Phoenix. Post after post, each worse than the last. In the end, I have to make a PDF out of the whole thing and send it to Wordpress HQ in San Francisco as well as Mark Mullenberg, co-founder of Wordpress. Then the comments are removed.
The day after I released the public version of the report on Christiansen, someone obviously from this thread posts the following review of the book by 'Max Gastineau': (Almost certainly a phony name chosen by someone who posts to this thread) I left it alone, I no longer respond to reviews.
Blevins: what has Winkle's website and the rest of
this nonsense got to do with ME ? Nothing. I am not
remotely interested in any of this, your personal
internet problems at websites with people here or
there et cetera ... blah blah blah. IT HAS NOTHING TO
DO WITH ME OR THIS FORUM! Sorry, but what else
am I supposed to say? That I empathize because
there are crazy people in this world that you interact
and have problems with? My advice is: change your
fishing gear ... maybe you will catch different fish?
Take off the Winkle's 12" Silver Spoon and put on a
Mini Max Wiggler - change your line from 90lb test
to 6lb mono filament, and drop the Tuna troll pole
and rig to a Cabella's pond rig ? I Don't know what else to say!
I'm not interested in what goes on On the Dark Side
of the Moon!
And I gave up my Gilbert "Listen to Signals from
Space" crystal set at age eight - so I don't even have
the gear to communicate with anymore!
377 20
Georger wrote:
I found the tie-tanium evidence that Tom and his crew discovered very interesting. I always wondered if it could have come from Norman's machine shop where at least two of the Cooper chutes once resided or passed through. If that's true then it probably gives no clue about where Cooper worked as it didnt come from his workplace.
I wonder too if the FBI DOES have the cig butts and good Cooper DNA samples from them and that's why they so confidently reject suspects based on DNA.
They are holding back something they use to separate the wannabes from the real DBC.
377
QuoteAs a practical matter, I always questioned just how far
we would get, examining Cooper money. Tom's team
was able to go ahead and examine evidence at
Seattle which to my mind is the best basic work which
has been done, which could prove useful down the
road. But that kind of work is original work and
fundamentally different than what goes on here at
Dropzone. Maybe the writers should try and followup
on that and give other things a rest, for a change.
I found the tie-tanium evidence that Tom and his crew discovered very interesting. I always wondered if it could have come from Norman's machine shop where at least two of the Cooper chutes once resided or passed through. If that's true then it probably gives no clue about where Cooper worked as it didnt come from his workplace.
I wonder too if the FBI DOES have the cig butts and good Cooper DNA samples from them and that's why they so confidently reject suspects based on DNA.
They are holding back something they use to separate the wannabes from the real DBC.
377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.
377 20
The above was my response to G's suggestion that we concentrate on evidence. Let's try to stop the bickering for a while and do what he suggested.
Any other thoughts on the titanium found on the alleged Cooper tie?
I give Bruce a lot of credit for pusuing the whole Norman chutes matter and turning up something new rather than just rehashing old stuff. If it were not for Bruce I'd have bought the Cossy line that the chutes were all his.
377
Any other thoughts on the titanium found on the alleged Cooper tie?
I give Bruce a lot of credit for pusuing the whole Norman chutes matter and turning up something new rather than just rehashing old stuff. If it were not for Bruce I'd have bought the Cossy line that the chutes were all his.
377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.
377 20
Belvins wrote
So very very true. When the news of the money find broke I was elated. I was sure that it would help solve the case and things would move fast. How wrong I was. It has only added to the mystery.
377
QuoteThat damned money. I've always said it creates more questions than it actually answers.
So very very true. When the news of the money find broke I was elated. I was sure that it would help solve the case and things would move fast. How wrong I was. It has only added to the mystery.
377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.
All depends on sea level at any given time period.. FLORIDA was friggin HUGE just 20,000 years ago, in places hundreds of miles wide. Look at a chart of Florida with bathymetric data. Any area with a water depth less than 320 feet deep was land not all that long ago. You need to go a hell of a long way east of Jacksonville to find 300 foot deep water... and a hell of a long way west of Tampa or Naples to find it as well.
Then again.. if all the glacial ice melted in all the glaciers that currently exist.. Florida would be a very small place around Tallahassee and sea level would be 200 feet higher. Most of the limestone in Florida formed in coral reefs when water was higher... and conversely there were reefs when it was lower as well.
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