DB Cooper

[Robert99 37]

Quote

Quote

Quote

Blevins wrote

Quote

Nothing we can do presently with our technology will reverse this process. That's because we waited too long to take action.

Face it. We're doomed.

Not so fast on doomsday calls Robert.

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/weather/research/2010-06-10-cloud-whitening_N.htm

Just give us some cloudless weekends for skydiving.

377

Yeah. That was a bit of parody back there. I'm just glad I lived in the time where everyone in the future will hate us. You know...the good old days of having fun burning up all the cheap fossil fuels on fast Chevys and yes...aircraft.

More RobertMBlevins projection!

You are NOT the World.

Have you shifted your editorialism to Dropzone and
dropped Newsvine and Winkle's smog-blog?

With Gates and Blevins working on the problem, we ARE doomed!

[matthewcline 0]

Quote

It's my understanding that all military records are classified, in order to view
them you need permission from the person in writing to receive any records.
enlistment records are not classified and can be searched.

If your not a Family member.....

I'm sure Matt will have an answer for this.....

The level of classification has been addressed. That is not normally applied to a record of one serving.

But to add, one can get records through a request process, a SF form is filled out sent in and then you wait.

Records for personal will "usually" be limited to duration and locations of service, awards, campaigns, and promotions, etc, actual duty details will be lacking. My 21 years fits on to a two part DD-214, just hits the highlights. Doesn't even include my 225 SL and 3000+ FF Jumps (or test jumps for Development), just says Master Parachutist Badge, and list graduations of the supporting Courses.

Today, what Duane did (Fraudulent Enlistment), would be near impossible. Back when he did it, easier of course, he lied, simple. He went to a enlistment office not associated with the Navy one, and tried the Army, they needed warm bodies, he was asked simple questions gave simple lies, and enlisted. The back ground checks (finger prints, criminal record, civil issues, etc) would be done by hand, and if even one digit of a ssn or spelling of a name, is off, he could get away with it.

He would have been treated just like any other boot recruit, sworn in, shipped off to Basic, and upon completion then off to AIT. Some where along that time he got caught as a Fraudulent Enlistee and got put out.

And looking at his brief Navy and Army time, and records, he received no Parachute Training in either, as well as actual Chemical Warfare (beyond the general basic stuff all SM's got and still get in Basic and recert on annually).

Matt

An Instructors first concern is student safety.
So, start being safe, first!!!

[mrshutter45 21]

"But to add, one can get records through a request process, a SF form is filled out sent in and then you wait. "

according to the SF form, you need to be "Next of kin" or "Legal guardian" in order to have access to the records, correct?

see attachment

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[matthewcline 0]

Or if you read section 3, an authorized authority.

So LEO's, City HR, some PI's, etc, can get a copy.

Matt

An Instructors first concern is student safety.
So, start being safe, first!!!

[georger 194]

Quote

Or if you read section 3, an authorized authority.

So LEO's, City HR, some PI's, etc, can get a copy.

Matt

Matt, just to be clear about this: one of Jo's
complaints has been she could not get all of
Duane's "records", whatever "all" means.

As a former spouse, can she get "all of" Duane's
military records?

Maybe you could clarify that for her ...

[mrshutter45 21]

Quote

Or if you read section 3, an authorized authority.

So LEO's, City HR, some PI's, etc, can get a copy.

Matt

understood, it's almost a given that LE and such would have access.
perhaps my wording was incorrect by stating "classified" as opposed
to "restricted" kind of ran with that term after reading Jo was claiming
his file was classified. she needs to have Duane's daughter file for the
records...done...

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[Robert99 37]

Quote

Quote

Or if you read section 3, an authorized authority.

So LEO's, City HR, some PI's, etc, can get a copy.

Matt

Matt, just to be clear about this: one of Jo's
complaints has been she could not get all of
Duane's "records", whatever "all" means.

As a former spouse, can she get "all of" Duane's
military records?

Maybe you could clarify that for her ...

Jo needs to try again under the Archival Records clause. Since Duane was booted out of the Army in 1944, the 62 year period would have expired in 2006.

So Jo needs to get a Standard Form 180, fill in all the blanks possible, include a check for the appropriate amount, and get it in the mail.

And she should send in a SF180 for both the Army and Navy records to the appropriate addresses.

Jo can't lose anything but a few dollars at most.

Robert99

[matthewcline 0]

Quote

Quote

Or if you read section 3, an authorized authority.

So LEO's, City HR, some PI's, etc, can get a copy.

Matt

Matt, just to be clear about this: one of Jo's
complaints has been she could not get all of
Duane's "records", whatever "all" means.

As a former spouse, can she get "all of" Duane's
military records?

Maybe you could clarify that for her ...

As his widow, she would fall under the "next of Kin" clause.

Matt

An Instructors first concern is student safety.
So, start being safe, first!!!

[mrshutter45 21]

Quote

Quote

Quote

Or if you read section 3, an authorized authority.

So LEO's, City HR, some PI's, etc, can get a copy.

Matt

Matt, just to be clear about this: one of Jo's
complaints has been she could not get all of
Duane's "records", whatever "all" means.

As a former spouse, can she get "all of" Duane's
military records?

Maybe you could clarify that for her ...

As his widow, she would fall under the "next of Kin" clause.

Matt

"Next of kin" is a living blood relative, are you sure she would fall under this clause?
you would think a box for Spouse/Husband would apply?

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[matthewcline 0]

Quote

Quote

Quote

Quote

Or if you read section 3, an authorized authority.

So LEO's, City HR, some PI's, etc, can get a copy.

Matt

Matt, just to be clear about this: one of Jo's
complaints has been she could not get all of
Duane's "records", whatever "all" means.

As a former spouse, can she get "all of" Duane's
military records?

Maybe you could clarify that for her ...

As his widow, she would fall under the "next of Kin" clause.

Matt

"Next of kin" is a living blood relative, are you sure she would fall under this clause?
you would think a box for Spouse/Husband would apply?

Once I was married, JAG had me put my wife on all my SF/DD/DA forms as she was now my immediate "Kin".

But to be sure, I called Fort Campbell's JAG and asked, Jo qualifies as his widow.

"Next of kin refers to the nearest blood relatives of a person who has died, including the surviving spouse."

http://definitions.uslegal.com/n/next-of-kin/

^ since not every one can open the .mil links, I attached a open source.

Matt

An Instructors first concern is student safety.
So, start being safe, first!!!

[mrshutter45 21]

Thanks Matt, it all makes sense until you read what Jo states?

"The file is CLASSIFIED! I saw that on the screen myself. The guy has to go get a special code and then when he goes to the file tells me I am not a listed beneficiary. I explain I was only 3 yrs old in 1943 - and did not meet and marry my husband until 1978...and that I need some records. He just repeated "CLASSIFIED" - if you fill out these papers they will send you the records - but he was just pacifing me because ALL I got was a DUPILICATE of the other item I had, but it did have a close date as the first one did not."

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[377 20]

Blevins wrote:

Quote

Yeah. That was a bit of parody back there. I'm just glad I lived in the time where everyone in the future will hate us. You know...the good old days of having fun burning up all the cheap fossil fuels on fast Chevys and yes...aircraft.

Remember Orange1's tag line?

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[skyjack71 0]

Quote

Matt, just to be clear about this: one of Jo's
complaints has been she could not get all of
Duane's "records", whatever "all" means.

As a former spouse, can she get "all of" Duane's
military records?

Maybe you could clarify that for her ...

The Navy records I have are pretty detailed. Just could ONLY get the One certificate with the Army - Date in - Date out and Discharge reason. It will have to do along with the letter he wrote home and the one the brother sent me. The man who John described as "friend of the family" would become a career Officer and retired as such. The relationship was more than "friend of the family".

This "friend of the family" was known to be tough as NAILS and trained to KILL. Duane had told me about this person, but John fillled in a more of the story.

I found a story about the man's military retirement - but, little information was actually there. He was career military and retired as such and to my knowledge is still alive, but did NOT have anything to do with what remained of the Webers.

Duane's children we could never trace. John had no children. The sister was married twice if I remember correctly! The linage is over.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[skyjack71 0]

Quote

Jo needs to try again under the Archival Records clause. Since Duane was booted out of the Army in 1944, the 62 year period would have expired in 2006.

So Jo needs to get a Standard Form 180, fill in all the blanks possible, include a check for the appropriate amount, and get it in the mail.

And she should send in a SF180 for both the Army and Navy records to the appropriate addresses.

Jo can't lose anything but a few dollars at most.

Robert99

I can try again, but the man stated I was NOT listed as a beneficiary. I let him know I was NOT wanting or looking for benefits - just the records...of his time in the ARMY - training and locations and that kind of information. He again repeated
"Classified" with an apology and handed me the paper to fill out and that was when I got a copy of the same thing I had except it had a close date. I forget the date I did this but it was before 2002. So that would have been approx 53 yrs and now it would hit the 62 yr mark.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[skyjack71 0]

Quote

understood, it's almost a given that LE and such would have access.
perhaps my wording was incorrect by stating "classified" as opposed
to "restricted" kind of ran with that term after reading Jo was claiming
his file was classified. she needs to have Duane's daughter file for the
records...done...

Duh! What do you not understand about NO surviving relatives! WE know Duane had a daughter, but NO ONE could ever find her. Duane said the last time he saw her she was about 9 yrs old and she told him she never wanted to see him again.

According to the ex, Duane did try to contact her again she refused to see him.

She indicated the daughter was in Mexico or Texas and I did find the name and approximate age individual - DECEASED! Probably of the same disease Duane died of! I was NOT able to find any of her surviving family or if there was one.

I have a Zona file! 377 was of assistance in helping provide me with sources. I did try to contact a couple of names connected to the death record, but the mail was returned with NO Forwarding address. It was a dead end, but I did truely feel I had the RIGHT Zona because it correlated with what the ex and what Duane told me.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[Robert99 37]

Quote

Quote

Jo needs to try again under the Archival Records clause. Since Duane was booted out of the Army in 1944, the 62 year period would have expired in 2006.

So Jo needs to get a Standard Form 180, fill in all the blanks possible, include a check for the appropriate amount, and get it in the mail.

And she should send in a SF180 for both the Army and Navy records to the appropriate addresses.

Jo can't lose anything but a few dollars at most.

Robert99

I can try again, but the man stated I was NOT listed as a beneficiary. I let him know I was NOT wanting or looking for benefits - just the records...of his time in the ARMY - training and locations and that kind of information. He again repeated
"Classified" with an apology and handed me the paper to fill out and that was when I got a copy of the same thing I had except it had a close date. I forget the date I did this but it was before 2002. So that would have been approx 53 yrs and now it would hit the 62 yr mark.

Jo, Try again. And if you have a copy of Duane's death certificate and your marriage license to him, make a Xerox copy of each and include them with the SF180.

It's entirely possible that the Army has not had any action on Duane's file since the time his family gave up trying to get the BCD dismissed.

So try again!

Robert99

[Guru312 0]

Quote

Remember Orange1's tag line?
377

"Burning fossil fuels just for fun." Or something like that.

What ever happened to her? I found her insightful, interesting and quite intelligent. She probably got fed up with the nonsense in this thread just like the other 99% of us.

Guru312

I am not DB Cooper

[Guru312 0]

Quote

Quote

Quote

Remember Orange1's tag line?
377

"Burning fossil fuels just for fun." Or something like that.

What ever happened to her? I found her insightful, interesting and quite intelligent. She probably got fed up with the nonsense in this thread just like the other 99% of us.

Truth is, I no longer trust some of you.

Ooops...My bad.

What I meant to write is this: "She probably got fed up with the nonsense in this thread just like the other 99% of us jumpers.

Guru312

I am not DB Cooper

[georger 194]

Quote

Quote

Quote

Or if you read section 3, an authorized authority.

So LEO's, City HR, some PI's, etc, can get a copy.

Matt

Matt, just to be clear about this: one of Jo's
complaints has been she could not get all of
Duane's "records", whatever "all" means.

As a former spouse, can she get "all of" Duane's
military records?

Maybe you could clarify that for her ...

Jo needs to try again under the Archival Records clause. Since Duane was booted out of the Army in 1944, the 62 year period would have expired in 2006.

So Jo needs to get a Standard Form 180, fill in all the blanks possible, include a check for the appropriate amount, and get it in the mail.

And she should send in a SF180 for both the Army and Navy records to the appropriate addresses.

Jo can't lose anything but a few dollars at most.

Robert99

Thats clear enough - Jo hope you read this!

[georger 194]

Quote

Thanks Matt, it all makes sense until you read what Jo states?

"The file is CLASSIFIED! I saw that on the screen myself. The guy has to go get a special code and then when he goes to the file tells me I am not a listed beneficiary. I explain I was only 3 yrs old in 1943 - and did not meet and marry my husband until 1978...and that I need some records. He just repeated "CLASSIFIED" - if you fill out these papers they will send you the records - but he was just pacifing me because ALL I got was a DUPILICATE of the other item I had, but it did have a close date as the first one did not."

yes, always a complication. Longest running soap opera in American History! ?

[georger 194]

Quote

Quote

Quote

Remember Orange1's tag line?
377

"Burning fossil fuels just for fun." Or something like that.

What ever happened to her? I found her insightful, interesting and quite intelligent. She probably got fed up with the nonsense in this thread just like the other 99% of us.

Probably. I've already put three people who post here regularly on my 'ignore' list. This means I'll read what they have to say, but I'm no longer addressing any of their possible questions, or responding to their comments. And if they don't have any comments or questions for me, I'm okay with that too.
Truth is, I no longer trust some of you. Anything further regarding KC will not be made public here. If I think you should be aware of something, I'll either PM you about it, or email you. Otherwise, I'm keeping it lightweight 'in public'. That means open posting at Dropzone.

You and Charlie Sheen!

We really really really really care!

But thanks for the peace and quiet!

ATTENTION QUADE:

This page is NOT loading.
cgi.adzerk.net is not loading!
traveladvertising.com not loading ...
adtech.net not loading ...
Facebook.net not loading ...
................... not loading . . .
connexity.neytnot loading ......

kick that mule.

[377 20]

Jo wrote

Quote

"The file is CLASSIFIED! I saw that on the screen myself

It's been decades since I had a security clearance but my dim recollection is that documents or files didn't have "CLASSIFIED" labels but rather "RESTRICTED" or "SECRET" etc which denoted the level of classification. Special terminals were used to access SECRET files and their screens couldn't be viewed by casual observers. The special terminals were designed so that radiated video signals could not be picked up at a distance and decoded. They had RF shielding and RF radiation suppression hardware. I think they were called TEMPEST terminals.

Others here must have had clearances. Am I recalling it correctly?

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[skyjack71 0]

Quote

Quote

Thanks Matt, it all makes sense until you read what Jo states?

"The file is CLASSIFIED! I saw that on the screen myself. The guy has to go get a special code and then when he goes to the file tells me I am not a listed beneficiary. I explain I was only 3 yrs old in 1943 - and did not meet and marry my husband until 1978...and that I need some records. He just repeated "CLASSIFIED" - if you fill out these papers they will send you the records - but he was just pacifing me because ALL I got was a DUPILICATE of the other item I had, but it did have a close date as the first one did not."

yes, always a complication. Longest running soap opera in American History! ?

Not Complicated at all. I filled out the form and I got what I got.
Classified was what he said and what I saw - I don't know why. I only tell what I know.

NOW does anyone have any information on Newell the man who died a few yrs ago and a story that got twisted in the telling. I want to see a picture of this man and a physical description! DON't even ask why?

I want to know this man's history.
Georger was it not you who made a post about this a couple of yrs aago....now I have REASON to be interested.

Why was he not a Cooper suspect by the FBI?

What is his history - from the day he was born till he died. Forget what the wife said - what did Newell ACTUALLY say. Since you GUYS are SO SMART - find the information and turn the thread around. Lets see how much you can get together.

What did he actually tell his attorney - was it that he was Cooper or that he had knowledge of who it was and perhaps helped with the jump or Planning - or did he just know who Cooper was?

Remember I was contacted by an attorney who claimed to have been representing a widow who said she thought her husband was Cooper. Was this Newells wife or one of the others altogether. One does NOT always use an attorney in the area the person lives in.

Where is Newell family now?

Georger - BITE - take the ball and ROLL with it - you know this story, but do you know the REST of the story?

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[skyjack71 0]

Quote

Otherwise, I don't see the point of it. If you are trying to link to fingerprints, I'm sure a valid copy of them is in the possession of the FBI somewhere. Duane had them taken too many times during his lifetime for the FBI to NOT figure out which set(s) belonged to him for real. This applies (IMHO) no matter what name he used during his various incarcerations or military enlistments. It doesn't matter if he used different names. As long they have your REAL name, and multiple sets of prints, they will figure it out easily.

At some point in the official FBI file on Duane Weber, they will have at least one verifiable set of prints.

I've maintained that sometimes the FBI makes mistakes.
I never said they were dumb.

YOU do NOT hear anyone BUT YOURSELF! The FBI was the ONE who said they used the McNeil prints - then turned around and said he was not in McNeil in 2000. NO one ever compared all of the prints - because in 1968 when Duane was released from prison,the FBI print system was NOT fully functional...we discussed this in the past.

Better GO back and READ the post I made before you posted this. TIME to move ON! Christiansen was NOT Cooper and was not connected in anyway to Cooper. All of the shit started in Spokane and involved more than ONE person - YOU think?

I guess you will link Kenny and Geestman to Spokane now - you will be scrambling, but you have to eat more than CROW like 377!

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[skyjack71 0]

Quote

When someone is arrested multiple times, serves incarcerations, enlists in the military, and somewhere during this process they know your true name, no matter which ones you have given previously....(this is nothing new by the way, to try an alias)

Blevins CAN YOU READ?
Do YOU READ ANYONE'S POSTINGS OTHER THAN YOUR OWN? The FBI does NOT know if any of the prints belonged to Cooper and they were particials and smudged. Cooper may have left NO PRINTS.

Surely there are prints of Christiansen somewhere - why don't you see if they will check those against Cooper's. Won't even ask why you chose to continue on a subject that has been discuss over and over!


Read This post:

Quote

NOW does anyone have any information on Newell the man who died a few yrs ago and a story that got twisted in the telling. I want to see a picture of this man and a physical description! DON't even ask why?

I want to know this man's history. Georger was it not you who made a post about this a couple of yrs ago....now I have REASON to be interested.

Why was he not a Cooper suspect by the FBI?

What is his history - from the day he was born till he died. Forget what the wife said - what did Newell ACTUALLY say. Since you GUYS are SO SMART - find the information and turn the thread around. Lets see how much you can get together.

What did he actually tell his attorney - was it that he was Cooper or that he had knowledge of who it was and perhaps helped with the jump or Planning - or did he just know who Cooper was?

Remember I was contacted by an attorney who claimed to have been representing a widow who said she thought her husband was Cooper. Was this Newells wife or one of the others altogether. One does NOT always use an attorney in the area the person lives in.

Where is Newell family now?

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber