DB Cooper

[georger 194]

Georger says in part:

Quote

'When Tom says “This is business now,” I think he's talking about the integrity and independence of the CS Team and its work product vis-a-vis its mandate with the FBI, and confidentiality, and not some external financial-business plan the team had.

It was Geoff and Crown Publishing with the "Business
plan", right from the start!...'

You should ask Tom Kaye about this. My understanding about the phrase 'This is business now,' refers to the idea that the CS team was considering their own book on the research they did.

I keep wondering why you pick on book writers so much. Like the books on Amelia Earhart, (many and legend) there might be some truth here and there mixed in with the speculation. The only non-fiction crime-type book I ever read that I considered almost completely accurate was All The President's Men. Anyone who is investigating anything, planning to do interviews, or considering a career in journalism should read it. Seriously.

[MeyerLouie 5]

Quote

D B Cooper was Colonel Hugh Gordon Waite. He was a paratrooper. He spoke French. He was a native of Oregon and is buried in Portland. He was an avid photographer and used a camera with a titanium shutter that would leave shard traces of titanium on the clip on tie he wore. There are pictures at his daughters web site of him wearing that tie. DB Cooper has never been identified because he lived after the crime.

----------------------------------------------------------
I don't follow that last sentence, but do you have the daughter's website information? MeyerLouie
----------------------------------------------------------

[skyjack71 0]

Quote

a background check is a very simple task, this will give you every single arrest made, as for the prints you keep saying they have the wrong ones?

Wrong - this was done yrs ago and no way to check the John Collins name....Duane's reports came in DECEASED...no information available. You seem to think it is very easy to obtain information like that - no it is NOT. I have Duane's employment records and they have been posted from 1969 to 1995 when he deceased. I only took them to 1976 because I knew the record after that. The yrs from 1962 to 1968 are under John Collins and not available.

Quote

you offered $100 for something to do with Marla and then turn around and state you don't have the money to check on the employment records of Duane's brother?

I made that offer because I knew NO one would take me up on it, but had they have done so I would have paid for it. As for the Brother - I do not have his SS number and it has been tried, but all that comes up is deceased.

You seem to not realize there is such a thing as Privacy Laws. Not just anyone can obtain certain records...unless you KNOW some way to do it illegally.

In 17 yrs I have done more than any other person as done including the FBI.

It seems you have taken Knosses place in the thread!

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[BobKnoss 0]

Quote

"Obviously you do not have the records nor access to them. Go back and read my postings. I requested them and I am the only next of kin - but a no GO. "

a background check is a very simple task, this will give you every single arrest made, as for the prints you keep saying they have the wrong ones? what would make the difference in your belief? you will only respond by stating Cooper was print phobic?

you offered $100 for something to do with Marla and then turn around and state you don't have the money to check on the employment records of Duane's brother?

you seem to always put some sort of clause in everything you say, go to the Public Library and use there computer since you can only afford dial up? take the $100 you offered on Marla and get a full background check on Duane or his brother? 17 years and you have not done anything really? you argue with us being wrong, you argue and complain about the FBI being wrong, how about Jo being wrong?

it seems that when you are confronted and things don't match up you get the "Knoss virus" it doesn't paint a pretty picture Jo!

Jo is RIGHT and you are wrong. The FBI is fibbing and YOU push the phony buttons. Pile up all your phony evidence and lose it like the real evidence. Investigate some more stupid Wild Goose Chase theories like micro-photographic analysis of cut parachute chords. Jo knows damned good and well what happened and YOU can't change facts. Check the REAL FBI/Pentegon files on this case. What a JOKE!!

[matthewcline 0]

Quote

Quote

"Obviously you do not have the records nor access to them. Go back and read my postings. I requested them and I am the only next of kin - but a no GO. "

a background check is a very simple task, this will give you every single arrest made, as for the prints you keep saying they have the wrong ones? what would make the difference in your belief? you will only respond by stating Cooper was print phobic?

you offered $100 for something to do with Marla and then turn around and state you don't have the money to check on the employment records of Duane's brother?

you seem to always put some sort of clause in everything you say, go to the Public Library and use there computer since you can only afford dial up? take the $100 you offered on Marla and get a full background check on Duane or his brother? 17 years and you have not done anything really? you argue with us being wrong, you argue and complain about the FBI being wrong, how about Jo being wrong?

it seems that when you are confronted and things don't match up you get the "Knoss virus" it doesn't paint a pretty picture Jo!

Jo is RIGHT and you are wrong. The FBI is fibbing and YOU push the phony buttons. Pile up all your phony evidence and lose it like the real evidence. Investigate some more stupid Wild Goose Chase theories like micro-photographic analysis of cut parachute chords. Jo knows damned good and well what happened and YOU can't change facts. Check the REAL FBI/Pentegon files on this case. What a JOKE!!

The Pentagon has no involvement in this case (other than the scrambled A/C, and that is just a few logs books entries), the FBI has been forthcoming (as much as they can in an open investigation), it is just that You and others don't like that fact the evidence DOES NOT back up the story. Your fable most of all, as it slanders a good bunch of innocent people.

A Nixon staffer just rebuked your WHOLE President Nixon involvement fable, BTW. A good deal of that staff still lives, is very politically involved, and not to keen on being slandered in such a way. This staffer and his assistant happened to be pretty perturbed, but as they see you have been removed/blocked from all sources and web pages with the exception of this thread, they are considering you "contained", "a harmless threat", "maybe suffering the early signs of a medical condition", and at worse "a delusional old man".

Matt

An Instructors first concern is student safety.
So, start being safe, first!!!

[mrshutter45 21]

Bob, you have nothing to say about this or anything connected to DB Cooper, zero credibility Bob....period!!

"they are considering you "contained", "a harmless threat", "maybe suffering the early signs of a medical condition", and at worse "a delusional old man". "

Now that is some real facts Bobby! stay away like you have been doing Bob, it might not be a good idea continuing your Fable much longer!

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[mrshutter45 21]

Jo did Duanes brother die in 2001 in West Palm beach?

is this him?
JOHN C WEBER
Birth date: Oct 14, 1911Death date: Jan 31, 2001SSN: 167-14-9714State Issued: PAResidence location: Lake Worth, Florida, 33462Residence county: Palm BeachPayment location: [Unknown], [Unknown], [Unknown]Payment county:

or this
JOHN C WEBER
Birth date: Aug 27, 1922Death date: Sep 5, 2001SSN: 286-16-0573State Issued: OHResidence location: Lakeview, Ohio, 43331Residence county: LoganPayment location: [Unknown], [Unknown], [Unknown]Payment county:

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[MeyerLouie 5]

Quote

Georger says in part:

Quote

'When Tom says “This is business now,” I think he's talking about the integrity and independence of the CS Team and its work product vis-a-vis its mandate with the FBI, and confidentiality, and not some external financial-business plan the team had.

It was Geoff and Crown Publishing with the "Business
plan", right from the start!...'

You should ask Tom Kaye about this. My understanding about the phrase 'This is business now,' refers to the idea that the CS team was considering their own book on the research they did.

I keep wondering why you pick on book writers so much. Like the books on Amelia Earhart, (many and legend) there might be some truth here and there mixed in with the speculation. The only non-fiction crime-type book I ever read that I considered almost completely accurate was All The President's Men. Anyone who is investigating anything, planning to do interviews, or considering a career in journalism should read it. Seriously.

No, you should ask Tom Kaye about this, since you
are the one curious about it@!

Now confess. You have a year's supply of Twinkie's
hidden somewhere? With the rest of your Survivalist
gear and a copy of "Inquisitions for Dummies" ...

Your persistent problem apparently in life, is you
dont know the difference between "book writers"
and "pimps". Or doing research and writing a book
vs. pimping.

I support legitimate book writers. I don;t support
PIMPS!

This distinction is akin to the difference between shit
and gold. Something most people learn very early in
life! Your nose may be out of joint (out of wack). It
could be a permanent condition you and your fellow
&*&%s will have to learn to cope with, or find
another hobby, while devoting renewed energy and
devotion to your primary source of being you
discovered somewhere along the way -
housecleaning.

In your case, we shall not go up and down together.
You need to get over your personal political
delusions.

We are, for all practical purposes, different species.

[Robert99 37]

Take a look at the above listed new thread that was posted late today on this forum. While the parachute that Cooper presumably used is similiar to this one, Cooper's chute was unmodified and did not have (so far as is known) the vents in the rear of the canopy.

Also, Cooper's chute is reported not to have had the "separable links" connecting the risers to the shroud lines. Instead, his chute is reported to have the shroud lines sewn to the risers.

Be sure to take a look at the pictures as well as read the post.

Robert99

[377 20]

Quote

He was an avid photographer and used a camera with a titanium shutter that would leave shard traces of titanium on the clip on tie he wore

I'm not a camera guy, but aren't shutters pretty well protected behind the lens? How would they shed titanium on a tie?

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[matthewcline 0]

Quote

Quote

He was an avid photographer and used a camera with a titanium shutter that would leave shard traces of titanium on the clip on tie he wore

I'm not a camera guy, but aren't shutters pretty well protected behind the lens? How would they shed titanium on a tie?

377

Would a camera of the period be able to shed the material during a film unload/reload?

Matt

An Instructors first concern is student safety.
So, start being safe, first!!!

[EVickiW 0]

Quote

D B Cooper was Colonel Hugh Gordon Waite. He was a paratrooper. He spoke French. He was a native of Oregon and is buried in Portland. He was an avid photographer and used a camera with a titanium shutter that would leave shard traces of titanium on the clip on tie he wore. There are pictures at his daughters web site of him wearing that tie. DB Cooper has never been identified because he lived after the crime.

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=4142654;search_string=hugh%20waite;#4142654

Pat, you may want to refer back to the previous conversation on this thread (Post #24310). Why bring it up again when it looks like he was with his family skiing in the Alps over the Thanksgiving holiday.

Melvin Luther Wilson - Missing Person since September 1971:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03QLnFvk8Fs

[Farflung 0]

RobertMBlevins says:

“Maybe one of these days I'll take a trip up there again and ask her. She has no phone at her ranch in Twisp.”


Or you could just mail her one of those disposable phones for $25 and save some serious time and money.

http://www.walmart.com/ip/20933059?adid=22222222227015231772&wmlspartner=wlpa&wl0=&wl1=g&wl2=&wl3=17431972390&wl4=&wl5=pla&veh=sem

Nahhhh, too much fun blundering around for a single data point. Never mind.

[377 20]

Vicki wrote

Quote

http://www.dropzone.com/...ugh%20waite;#4142654

Pat, you may want to refer back to the previous conversation on this thread (Post #24310). Why bring it up again when it looks like he was with his family skiing in the Alps over the Thanksgiving holiday.

Thanks Vicki. Your sharp memory saved a forum detour.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[MeyerLouie 5]

Quote

I hate double-posting, but I guess I should answer MeyerLouie's questions:

'Blevins,
I'm tired of getting after you, it's a broken record -- you will never change. Instead, today, rather than criticize you, I am going to put up my "Top 10 List" of questions I have come up with since recently re-reading Skyjack, Norjak, and Blast:

Robert says: I can't answer for Geoff Gray or Himmelsbach's books.

1. How did DBC get to the Portland airport?
Accomplice(s)?

Robert: Okay...but it's a theory. We (Porteous and yours truly) think Bernie Geestman picked up KC at his apartment in Sumner either in another vehicle or his recently-purchased station wagon, and drove him to Portland. Then we believe (now) that Geestman drove up to his property in Oakville, camped out in his new trailer, and waited for a phone call. There was no house at that time, but only a shop building. We know there was power to the shop, but we can't say for sure there was a phone. I should have asked Margaret Geestman if there was a phone. My bad. Maybe one of these days I'll take a trip up there again and ask her. She has no phone at her ranch in Twisp.

2. Why didn't Geoff Gray write a book that makes it
easier to find things (his subsections are dates,
not descriptive subtitles, thus making it almost
impossible to backtrack and find something that
you had read previously; also, writing non-fiction
like it's a novel is a tough format, another
format may have been better)?

Robert: I agree with most of what you say about the format on Skyjack. What I thought was missing the most was a detailed start-to-finish timeline regarding the hijacking. You know, like: '4:20PM Cooper boards 305...' etc. from there right up to Reno and the search later. (Yes, I know it wasn't 4:20PM)

3. Why wasn't Cooper afraid of being recognized?

Robert: (KC response only) We know KC only flew maybe a couple of times a month. We also know he only did the Orient routes. We also know from NWA that the crews were compartmentalized. We know most people who worked with KC hardly remembered him. We know the hijacker was adamant about not allowing any of the male flight crew to even catch a look at him. Conclusion: Once Cooper boarded, if he was sure the stews did not know him, he (KC) might have decided at that point to go through with his plan. Again, though...it's just a theory. On a side note, if Geestman was the accomplice, we also believe he was the one who talked Kenny into doing it. We base this on what we know about him, and what followed later regarding Geestman, including his appearance on Decoded. If he was involved, he definitely got a piece of the pie. To support this, I point to his ability to build a new home not long after the hijacking on his property in Oakville, his wife's spending on a wooded lot in Bonney Lake, horses, and other items...and the purchase of the ranch in Twisp, WA. Margaret, in her interviews, was pretty dodgy on how they managed these purchases.

4. Why did Cooper take the bogus chute?

Robert: (KC response) Missed it? Hadn't jumped in 25 years? (KC's last jump was in 46-47. As far as we know, he never jumped civilian.

5. Why is there so much difference in the DBC
ID/descriptions by the eye witnesses (Tina spent
5 hours with him, I think I trust her description
the most -- hey, I thought flight people were
supposed to be trained in this kind of thing).

Robert: This is common in eyewitness accounts, that is, for people to see the same person yet give varying descriptions. Robert Gregory was sure the hijacker was no taller than five-nine. (Pg 92, Skyjack.) Others said up to six-one, six-two. What the heck? When they catch perps and then you compare them in person to the sketch that was issued, sometimes those are quite different. I don't know. The sketch is what it is. One thing it isn't is a photograph of the hijacker, although some people believe it is.

6. What chance is there that DBC landed in the
water? (If you read Farf's analysis of this, a 1%
of a 1% chance would be very generous).

Robert: I suggested that it was a very low chance, too. And I got pounded on for saying it. I just looked at the total amount of water available to the land available and made a guess. Low chance of a water landing.

7. Why didn't DBC bail out south of Portland?

Robert: (General response, KC, anyone) Because he had no intention of remaining on board any longer than it took to get to jump altitude. Think about it. He wanted to take off with the stairs already lowered. That doesn't sound like someone who is planning on hanging around long. In fact, this request is one thing Porteous and I thought led to the idea the hijacker was very local to Puget Sound. Say...Bonney Lake, for example. (*smiles*)

8. Could Cooper have had a homing device on him
so that anyone within 5 miles of where he landed
could determine his location (Fank Heyl's profile)?

Robert: I doubt it. Maybe a walkie talkie, who knows? I think he was just planning to walk to a pay phone. Back then they were everywhere.

9. Was Jake from Walla Walla State Pen being
truthful (he has evidence you know )?

Robert: I am not familiar with this Jake from Walla Walla evidence. On another point though, I have heard claims lately that the SkyChef restaurant in Portland was closed on the day of the hijacking, yet Cooper used SkyChef matches. SkyChef also provided the meals for NWA flights. It's occurred to me that a flight crew member might have a few boxes of those matches at home. NWA crews were well-known to take home everything they could get away with. I once dated an NWA stew for a brief time. Two of her kitchen cabinets were full of little liquor bottles.

10. And of course, the big one -- How did the money
get to Tena's Bar?

Robert: Planted, dredged there, or washed down. Hell, I don't know. This could be a question that would be solved AFTER the hijacking is solved. I've leaned back and forth on this one. Sometimes I think plant, sometimes dredge. I don't go with the washdown theory.

----------------------------------------------------------
Blevins: you were the last person I wanted to respond to my top 10 list. If you had some credibility, scruples, tact, scholarship, or professionalism, then I might value your opinion, but I don't. My top 10 list was fodder for the forum, I was not expecting a response to every question, from you -- of all people. I haven't even read your replies to the 10 questions -- I don't have to an I don't want to -- because I already know what you're going to say before you say it. You've repeated yourself so many times here, you've picked the low hanging fruit so often here, you're a broken record.
MeyerLouie

Actually Blevins, I just read some (only a couple) of your answers to my 10 questions -- and I am already regretting it. You really are a broken record. How do I put it -- nobody cares what you think, Blevins. MeyerLouie

-----------------------------------------------------------

[377 20]

Quote

8. Could Cooper have had a homing device on him
so that anyone within 5 miles of where he landed
could determine his location (Fank Heyl's profile)?

Very unlikely. No GPS back then. Best you could do is use a radio direction finder to get a bearing on a signal, but that doesn't work well over irregular terrain. Just gives you an approximate bearing, no range info.

McCoy's rigs had govt supplied beacons implanted by Perry Stevens, a rigger in Oakland CA. Most likely they were military bailout beacons on 243.0 MHz. Some USAF planes (eg HC 130H) were equipped with UHF ADFs that could get a bearing on that frequency. The problems of reflecting signals off terrain is minimized when the bearings are taken from aloft.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[georger 194]

Quote

I hate double-posting, but I guess I should answer MeyerLouie's questions:
.

Why?

(a) Yer the self-annointed windbag?

(b) you own and work this street?

(c) mary had a liddle lamb?

(d) you thought you stared in Taxi Driver?

[georger 194]

Georger: No, you should ask Tom Kaye about this, since you are the one curious about it@!

Robert replies to this: YOU were the one who brought it up. I couldn't care less. I only heard something about a possible CS team book later.

[georger 194]

Quote

Quote

Quote

I hate double-posting, but I guess I should answer MeyerLouie's questions:
.

Why?

(a) Yer the self-annointed windbag?

(b) you own and work this street?

(c) mary had a liddle lamb?

(d) you thought you stared in Taxi Driver?

No to All of the Above. And the questions were directed to me from Meyer, not you. So I answered them. Tough. Get over it.

Meyer: I saw your post above. If you didn't want a response to your questions, then you shouldn't have inserted my name into your post. I'm not a mind-reader, you know. Now I understand. I'll just ignore your questions or comments from now on. Thanks for setting me straight on that.

Quote

'How do you like me now...'

"If I'd observed all the rules, I'd never have got anywhere..."

Marilyn Monroe "If I'd observed all the rules, I'd never have got anywhere..."

Marilyn Monroe "If I'd observed all the rules, I'd never have got anywhere..."

Marilyn Monroe
"If I'd observed all the rules, I'd never have got anywhere..."

Marilyn Monroe

Bookie bookie -
you wanna bookie?

Me lower price. Only TWO DOLLA!
bOOKIE BOOKIE -

"Into The Blast - The True Story of D.B. Cooper -
Revised Edition"

only two dolla!

[Farflung 0]

This is why you get so much venom.

RobertMBlevins speaks from his parallel universe, sans short-term memory with:

“Maybe one of these days I'll take a trip up there again and ask her. She has no phone at her ranch in Twisp.”


This is typical of your miscommunications, misunderstandings and constant errors induced by someone who does not use English as a primary language. She solved a $15 problem with BS.

Not only has she displayed a ‘special relationship’ with reality, where she is mushing dog sleds through the wilds of Alaska, after driving horses to drink, but she hates phones too. She fits the profile of a wacko perfectly. She doesn’t like a TracFone, gee she could have told YOU that when you handed her that new fangled, eeeelectronic talking stick. What utter BS!

Then YOU reserve the temerity to say:

“You could have just asked.”


Sorry, but I don’t reside in, or visit Crazytown, where there is some expectation that when someone says, a woman has no phone, you should inquire about some unfounded phobia. That’s nuttier than a squirrel turd. You have been duped, yet again.

Be careful and bring dog snacks? Are you kidding? No one wants to talk to her and no one ever broke into that dump. No police report, no evidence, just you repeating some brain dead story….. again.

If I suffered a ‘break in’, and had anything resembling a brain, I would want TracFones planted all over the estate, with 911 set on speed dial. Do you ever think downstream? She actually sets herself up to be even a greater victim, and you buy it. Un-freaking-believable.

PS: I “asked” about the name of the facial recognition software, but ummm….. that didn’t work out so well…. umm… oh yeah, because it was pure BS, and you were avoiding that like a boss.

[MeyerLouie 5]

Quote

Quote

8. Could Cooper have had a homing device on him
so that anyone within 5 miles of where he landed
could determine his location (Fank Heyl's profile)?

Very unlikely. No GPS back then. Best you could do is use a radio direction finder to get a bearing on a signal, but that doesn't work well over irregular terrain. Just gives you an approximate bearing, no range info.

McCoy's rigs had govt supplied beacons implanted by Perry Stevens, a rigger in Oakland CA. Most likely they were military bailout beacons on 243.0 MHz. Some USAF planes (eg HC 130H) were equipped with UHF ADFs that could get a bearing on that frequency. The problems of reflecting signals off terrain is minimized when the bearings are taken from aloft.

377

__________________________________________________

That answers that question -- two more questions for you 377: could DBC have brought on board 305, either in the briefcase or in the paperbag, a bailout type beacon (the flares maybe)? If so, could a land vehicle be equipped and capable of getting a bearing on that bailout beacon frequency? Thanks. MeyerLouie

[Farflung 0]

RobertMBlevins displays his search skills with:

“Attached: Picture of the house from the main road. I don't have a problem with giving out the address, but not on a public forum. Serious investigators would have to contact me personally on this.”

Gosh, I guess all those ‘serious investigators’ you speak of….. didn’t know how to search Geestman Ranch and have a photo already geo-located to the place on a very public website named Google.

But what do I know? I’m just a cave man, who had a few extra minutes.

[MeyerLouie 5]

Meyer: I saw your post above. If you didn't want a response to your questions, then you shouldn't have inserted my name or the title of the book into your post. I'm not a mind-reader, you know. Now I understand. I'll just ignore your questions or comments from now on. Thanks for setting me straight on that.
_________________________________________________
Blevins, read my response to you responding to my top 10 list. Do you really promise to ignore my questions and comments from now on. Really? I think I like the sound of that. MeyerLouie__________________________________________________

[BruceSmith 3]

Greetings,

Many have read my positng at the Mountain News about Galen Cook's uncovering a couple of men who as teenagesrs in 1980 say they found money shards at Tina's Bar the month prior to Brian Ingram.

Many have questioned Galen about it, and he's given a comprehensive response, so I thought I'd post it here to further the conversation on these pages.

- Bruce

Here is Galen's commentary:


1 Just a few comments to clear up some possible misunderstandings.

My investigation into the D.B. Cooper mystery branches out into many areas of inquiry. Tina’s Bar is just part of my overall probe into the case, however it does hold some fascinating clues if one wants to conduct a deeper examination.

Back in 2009, SA Larry Carr and I discussed the issue of the Brian Ingram find, particularily as it pertained to the decomposition of the $20 bills. Later that year, I associated with a particularily experienced scientist from Portland who agreed to come on board and work with me at the Tina Bar discovery site. We basically mapped the entire area into a scientific grid. We had the full support of the Fazio’s and unlimited access to their beachfront via their private drive.

Our experiments apparently caught the interest of the FBI. The Supervisory Agent in Seattle put me in direct contact with SA Curtis Eng. Then, the FBI released the “Palmer Report” to me. That report cited a most likely “arrival time” of the $20 packets at between 9 months and 12 months prior to discovery. Palmer’s specialization was “shoreline process,” which would allow a scientific examination of sedimentary deposits and the strata of the beach soils. A packet of bills found at a particular strata on the shoreline can be correlated to a specific period of time in which they “arrived.”

My goal was to try and simulate the money find, including the decomposition process, using various controls. We conducted our experiments both at Tina’s Bar and in the lab, and then replicated them more than twice in order to gain confidence in our experiments. The results of the experiments will be published at a later date.

I found it odd that there were never reports of others finding pieces of Cooper’s money at Tina’s Bar. Richard Tosaw and I had discussed this issue many times while we worked together on the Columbia River during 2005 and 2008. [there were reports that the FBI had found "shards" back in February 1980, but this matter was never verified, nor was there an indication of it when SA Curtis Eng allowed me to inspect the Cooper money at the Seattle Field Office].

In late summer of 2012, I spent a rather long period of time at Tina’s Bar and got to know the fishermen who fish the area. I also learned why Tina’s is such a popular location for fishermen. Fishermen are a bit like goldminers, in that they tend to be evasive as to what they know about the area, particularily when non-fishermen are asking the questions. But after a discussion with a lone fisherman, he casually told me that Ingram’s find was not the only discovery of Cooper’s money.

Through some coaxing, I received enough information to locate the two individuals who had made the earlier discovery. Both grew up in Vancouver, WA and fished at Tina’s Bar since childhood.

Bruce’s narrative is pretty accurate about what happened next. The men, now in their 40′s, but age 12 and 14 at the time, found the shards at Tina’s Bar approximately 4 weeks prior to Ingram’s find. I went to some length to corroborate their story, which checked out. I asked them why they never notified the authorities and they told me that they had no idea whose money shards they found (before 2/10/80). It wasn’t until the Ingram find came out in the newspaper that they understood what they had found. It didn’t make any sense to notify authorities at that point because the media was giving full attention to Ingram, and, the two boys didn’t keep the shards anyway. [this story was checked-out through the parents, who also saw the shards on the beach on that day of discovery].

The shards standing alone means nothing to an investigator. What I needed to know is (1) “where” the shard were found; (2) “what condition” the shards were in; and (3) “how many” shards were viewed?

I received the answers. These fellows took me to a location that was very important to myself and the scientist who works with me. That location, the depth, the condition, the number of shards, as well as the location downriver where a few more were found, is what matters most. It would have been nice if they had kept the shards, but what would a couple of youngsters do with small corner tips of $20′s? These kids were just fishing with their parents and hanging out at their favorite fishing site.
After 32 years, no one else has ever come out with a story about finding more Cooper money at Tina’s Bar. There is nothing to gain by this kind of story, well after the fact, unless of course, the specific information can be related back to other known information and can be fitted into a scientific model that will assist in further experimentation and investigation.

This 32 year-old information, which has very slowly worked its way out, tells a great deal about the complexities of the Tina Bar mystery, at least from a scientist’s perspective. All it took was some willingness to get to know the true nature of fishermen, and get them to finally talk. That took some time, but it was worth it.

Galen G. Cook
Attorney at Law

[Galen repsonse triggered more comments from MN readers, and he gave us an expanded view, offered below:]

Comments to your responders above. You have to put all of the material factors of beach erosion into play. Natural flow, freshets, tidal forces, wakes from passing ships or smaller vessels. There is a tendency towards continuing beach erosion. We took decisive measurements of this from 2009 to 2012. The only evidence of accretion was from the dredging operations, which occured just south of Tina’s Bar, or near the wingdams, which are erected as pilings into the main river current. Thus, it would be almost impossible for the money to arrive by natural means from upstream and then be covered and buried at a substantial depth by natural beach build-up at an area downriver from dredge stacking, or, at an even greater distance downstream from the wingdams.

Apparently, the depth of the discovery sites and the various types of sand stratas were the only relevant factors for Dr. Palmer in 1980, as that allowed him the proper shoreline process analysis in which to determine an arrival date. My understanding is that the FBI is not in disagreement with his conclusion.

What Dr. Palmer does not do is create a scientific theory as to how the money arrived at TB. So, the question of “how” the money got there is still in play.

As to the shards: It seems that too many corner pieces of $20s were found to account for the missing $120 (six bills) from one of the packets. Three packets were found together, but the shards were found in a separate discovery hole. Why is the money separated into two discovery sites, and why is the money found in two distinct forms (bundled; sharded)? It seems that there was probably more than $6000, but far less than $200,000 at TB.

As to the shard discovery by the kids: they were young teens, and their parents had no reason to get involved. Shards of bills are not worth anything. Back in 1980, everyone reading the news in that area just figured that Cooper must have died and this was some of the evidence left behind. The FBI and the Fazios closed the entire area down for weeks after the Ingrams find and the fishing ceased for a time. These are fishermen, not scientists or sleuths. They prefer to be left alone and fish. I doubt any of them read the DZ, or sit around and try to establish the latest preferred theory. Most of the fishermen I talked to could care less about D.B. Cooper.

Anyway, good questions nevertheless.

Galen Cook

[Robert99 37]

Quote

Quote

Quote

8. Could Cooper have had a homing device on him
so that anyone within 5 miles of where he landed
could determine his location (Fank Heyl's profile)?

Very unlikely. No GPS back then. Best you could do is use a radio direction finder to get a bearing on a signal, but that doesn't work well over irregular terrain. Just gives you an approximate bearing, no range info.

McCoy's rigs had govt supplied beacons implanted by Perry Stevens, a rigger in Oakland CA. Most likely they were military bailout beacons on 243.0 MHz. Some USAF planes (eg HC 130H) were equipped with UHF ADFs that could get a bearing on that frequency. The problems of reflecting signals off terrain is minimized when the bearings are taken from aloft.

377

__________________________________________________

That answers that question -- two more questions for you 377: could DBC have brought on board 305, either in the briefcase or in the paperbag, a bailout type beacon (the flares maybe)? If so, could a land vehicle be equipped and capable of getting a bearing on that bailout beacon frequency? Thanks. MeyerLouie

MeyerLouie, Let me see if I can help answer your questions. In the late 1960s and early 1970s, emergency locator transmitter beacons (ELTs) were just being introduced into small general aviation aircraft.

I don't remember the year that they were mandated by the FAA, but some of the early ELTs were very small and could be, and were, mounted on the side of the baggage compartment of even the smallest aircraft (such as Cessna 150s). You could almost carry these things in your shirt pocket based on their size.

They had to be mounted in a direction such that longitudinal impact forces would force a weight forward to turn on the transmitter switch during accidents. And the pilot was responsible for seeing that the ELTs were not activated as a part of his shut down check list at the end of a flight.

These ELTs operated on 121.5 and 243.0 on the VHF and UHF bands, respectively, when activated.

To locate aircraft after an accident, the search aircraft would ideally have a VHF/UHF "direction finder" capability. Military search aircraft had such a capability. Perhaps 377 knows if such a piece of equipment was available to general aviation and ships in that time frame.

But Cooper could easily have had one of these ELTs in his paper bag or coat pocket. However, anyone who wanted to locate him would need the "direction finder" end of the system.

Robert99