DB Cooper

[BobKnoss 0]

"Amazing after 40 yrs the FBI cannot solve this case! Can we really believe they actually have any solid evidence - or DNA or prints. Has The Cooper Mystery become such a part to the past of Unsolved Mysteries that NO one wants it solved?"

This hijacking was given the Government title, "Project Norjak" in 1967 or 68. It has maintained that title to be included in all Government reference, including SA's books. Can anyone who is not kept behind locked doors tell us of what relevance "Project" has to a small criminal type hijacking a milk-run? Kinda sticks out like a black wart on the end of Pinochio's beezer.

The word project in itself implies conspiracy, or joint effort of a team. A project is typically defined as a collaborative enterprise, frequently involving research or design, that is carefully planned to achieve a particular aim. Projects can be further defined as temporary rather than permanent social systems that are constituted by teams within or across organizations to accomplish particular tasks under time constraints. The word project comes from the Latin word projectum from the Latin verb proicere, "to throw something forward" which in turn comes from pro-, which denotes something that precedes the action of the next part of the word in time and iacere, "to throw". The word "project" thus actually originally meant "something that comes before anything else happens".

proj·ect (prjkt, -kt)
n.
1. A plan or proposal; a scheme. See Synonyms at plan.
2. An undertaking requiring concerted effort: a community cleanup project; a government-funded irrigation project.
3. An extensive task undertaken by a student or group of students to apply, illustrate, or supplement classroom lessons.
4. An elaborate plan by pilots to demonstrate the need for airline safety.
6. A Government or Military Project such as Manhattan, Norjak, Geronimo, or thousands of others.

Project Names and Code Words were used by military and intelligence organizations around the world for many years. They came into their own during World War I, and were virtually everywhere in World War II. The Cold War left a legacy of secrecy and a huge bureaucracy, that contributed a lot to the prevalence of Code Words and classifications, a bureaucracy which continues to dominate the US intelligence community and military to this day. There is probably only one other thing that this bureaucracy likes more than codes and classifications, and that is using abbreviations and acronyms. [LIKE NORJAK]

[mrshutter45 21]

Bob, stop adding things in order for it to fit your BS

Pro-ject
noun
1. something that is contemplated, devised, or planned; plan; scheme.
2.a large or major undertaking, especially one involving considerable money, personnel, and equipment.
3.a specific task of investigation, especially in scholarship.
4.Education . a supplementary, long-term educational assignment necessitating personal initiative, undertaken by an individual student or a group of students.
5.(added by Honey Badger) project can also mean a story made up by a individual by mixing in several stories in order to make it look and sound real!

according to your rules, I added #5, so it must be real and true!

"Keep in mind that Rataczak and Scott made a movie" ?????

then you say; "Made by two Minneapolis pilots and run on late nite TV on channel 5, KMSP TV" which is actually channel 9 not 5... bait and switch Bob again!!

proj·ect (prjkt, -kt) n. that won't even compute when you try to google it,

BYU

B-Bob
Y-Your
U-Unbelievable

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[mrshutter45 21]

I think you might be on to something, my Dad told me that the escape from Alcatraz in 62 was a cover up in order to get Frank Morris and the Anglin brothers out of prison, they were told that they were needed in a up coming Faa/Cia/FBI/Government/Pentagon/covicted Felons/milk can/airline/Pilots union/liars/Military/Hollywood project starting in "mid March" or first week of April

You don't believe me? ask my Father, ask my Mother! I am speaking the truth and keep saying the truth even though having to say I am honest and truthful all of the time seems suspect!

just keep in mind that when someone speaks of truth over and over without backing his/her statements, most likely are not being truthful,

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[BobKnoss 0]

If you knew what you were talking about you would know that there was a big buy-out switcharoo with channel 11 in order to buy the call letters USA and move them to California. When this happened 11, 9 and 5 switched call signs in further buy-outs. That will date the time of the showing somewhat. Pre-buy-out.

So, you jump the gun again, Honey, based on lack of knowledge. Everything I say is true, all the time, except when I say it is not, or joke around.

And I don't have to copy something to make it true. I can add to any statement I chose, to clarify, amend, or extend as long as it is true.

Bite me Badger. Watch out! Here comes that bailer again.

[BobKnoss 0]

"just keep in mind that when someone speaks of truth over and over without backing his/her statements, most likely are not being truthful."

Of course, you mean like Jesus, right? Billy Graham? Lincoln? Washington? Clinton? "I NEVER...."

If I want to, I can be untruthful. You are a really nice guy with some wrong opinions! I just choose to be truthful on this subject for obvious reasons. One mistake and you throw out the baby with the wash. No, I try to be VERY careful about what I say. Still can't find documentation that Nixon never flew a plane, though. Doesn't make it untrue, just undocumented. It may have been someone else, or I could actually remember it correctly. Not very often I'm way off and don't know it, like with the Cooper Crew. I thought that was a pretty good post about NORJAK!! Right on the money!

[BobKnoss 0]

"You don't believe me? ask my Father, ask my Mother! I am speaking the truth and keep saying the truth even though having to say I am honest and truthful all of the time seems suspect!"

Well, you can't ask my father. He took his life the week I explained Project Norjak to him, my involvement, how and why. I apparently have a different perspective on truth than you do. Best try another subject.

[mrshutter45 21]

YAWN

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[skyjack71 0]

Sluggo and others screwed around with the times and that changed the route....they are WRONG. This map fits all of the known reports of the plane going over.

I believe Sluggo's site was a deliberate set up to throw everyone off. Now NO one remembers the route the FBI had pegged with the time lines and sitings. Some super sleuth decides the time lines are off. BULL!

The map below is per the sitings and as the FBI proclaimed it in 1971 - I don't know who did this map, but it is similar to some of the other 1st maps. NOW everyone thinks Sluggo's map and time lines are the only thing out there - NOT!

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[mrshutter45 21]

Nooooooooooooo, it follows the imaginary pipeline right by the river, the perfect place to bail out (at night right around water)

then he safely glided over the river and landed on the west side, found a water proof milk can that sat underground for years and went thru several flood periods popping up like a cork leaving 3 bundles together on Tena Bar in 1979. it's all so very clear

don't forget that the milk can was like the graves in Louisiana, oops, they were half out of the ground from the start! unlike his little can that was underground and not exposed!

(crack) it's up, up, looks like it's going into the upper deck......HOME RUN (crowd goes wild)

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[Robert99 37]

Quote

Sluggo and others screwed around with the times and that changed the route....they are WRONG. This map fits all of the known reports of the plane going over.

I believe Sluggo's site was a deliberate set up to throw everyone off. Now NO one remembers the route the FBI had pegged with the time lines and sitings. Some super sleuth decides the time lines are off. BULL!

The map below is per the sitings and as the FBI proclaimed it in 1971 - I don't know who did this map, but it is similar to some of the other 1st maps. NOW everyone thinks Sluggo's map and time lines are the only thing out there - NOT!

Jo, It really takes some gall for you to sit there on your fat ass and make such statements about Sluggo! How many years did Sluggo spend trying to help you in your search?

And, in fact, the time lines are off. If you had been paying attention a couple of months ago, you would have also known that the maps in the supposed jump zone were in error by two or three miles.

[Robert99 37]

Quote

Nooooooooooooo, it follows the imaginary pipeline right by the river, the perfect place to bail out (at night right around water)

then he safely glided over the river and landed on the west side, found a water proof milk can that sat underground for years and went thru several flood periods popping up like a cork leaving 3 bundles together on Tena Bar in 1979. it's all so very clear

don't forget that the milk can was like the graves in Louisiana, oops, they were half out of the ground from the start! unlike his little can that was underground and not exposed!

(crack) it's up, up, looks like it's going into the upper deck......HOME RUN (crowd goes wild)

You have now achieved the level of Ascended Master, Second Class, in the Cooper investigation.

[skyjack71 0]

Quote

Nooooooooooooo, it follows the imaginary pipeline right by the river, the perfect place to bail out (at night right around water)

then he safely glided over the river and landed on the west side, found a water proof milk can that sat underground for years and went thru several flood periods popping up like a cork leaving 3 bundles together on Tena Bar in 1979. it's all so very clear

I respect your humor. You know I am wound tight right now. I couldn't even spell last night and the rage I felt was out of hand. With only BK here to post he made everything I said (as screwed up as I was) fit into "his" story. BK is just one example of how the REAL story is so screwed up.

I was NOT kidding about a movie. I say DO IT - No holds barred except for BK....he has been the one obstacle he works my words to make them work into his story. I have NO STORY - just my constantly retelling the story of my life with Weber.

Last night - my stress level was out of control. After loosing all of my treasured memories that I could hold in my hands, I spent most days with tears in my eyes and afraid to leave my house...and this led to my finding "something" else gone.

Bare in mind that I took virtually NO pain medication in the 3 surgeries I have had in the last 11 months. I use my mind and ice packs and music and if that doesn't work I will take something to help me sleep. The Dr.s think I am one TUFF COOKIE.

Maybe I am REALLY loosing my mind!

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[mrshutter45 21]

any luck with the jewelry? you can't put a value on a lose such as that! very sad to hear

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[skyjack71 0]

Quote

Quote

Sluggo and others screwed around with the times and that changed the route....they are WRONG. This map fits all of the known reports of the plane going over.

I believe Sluggo's site was a deliberate set up to throw everyone off. Now NO one remembers the route the FBI had pegged with the time lines and sitings. Some super sleuth decides the time lines are off. BULL!

The map below is per the sitings and as the FBI proclaimed it in 1971 - I don't know who did this map, but it is similar to some of the other 1st maps. NOW everyone thinks Sluggo's map and time lines are the only thing out there - NOT!

Jo, It really takes some gall for you to sit there on your fat ass and make such statements about Sluggo! How many years did Sluggo spend trying to help you in your search?

And, in fact, the time lines are off. If you had been paying attention a couple of months ago, you would have also known that the maps in the supposed jump zone were in error by two or three miles.

Precisely - the time lines were CORRECT as they were - NOT how you guys changed them 37 yrs later. You shifted the flight path when you did this...then the flight path did NOT match the reports on the ground. When the news of a skyjack is out there - people do look up. Because of the weather they didn't see much but they did HEAR! Remember there was another flight right behind Skyjack and that is probably the one most heard 20 minutes later - that was along the Interstate.

Whatever - I do know that Cooper went down in WA and that there was a tower with a light that you could see from a long ways and it was FLAT land or rolling and timbers - NOT
mountains and not near an Interstate but EAST of the interstate. There was another light you could see from the sky even thru a storm (I don't know where it was but since Duane told me about this BIG light) I assume it was up near the damn and lake - his indication to me that his jump site was on countdown from that point.

He was counting down from that point - there must have been something else he had or needed. I do know that DUANE WEBER knew every pipeline, every power line and every air strip and every tower - somehow he utilized this information to help him and in an area he knew well. He also knew were every cemetary and every gravel pit and every creek was. He knew all of them. When we crossed an area in Battleground - he made a comment about this and I took a mental note that helped me find this when I was up there.

He talked about how far you could walk thru there and where it led to going EAST. Right now I forget what this was called. There was a nursery of some sort near the highway along this large - plain or whatever it was.
I remembered a building in 1979 and it was STILL there in 2010.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[skyjack71 0]

Quote

Jo, It really takes some gall for you to sit there on your fat ass and make such statements about Sluggo!

Who gave you the opinion my ass was fat. No one has ever called me fat and my ass is NOT big. Size 8 and 10 with room to spare....getting a little tummy from not being able to exercise and a little flabbly (age related) but NOT FAT.

Sluggo was nice and he did lots of things for me - he did ignore the knife and I think it is important and that the thread inside of it might match the cut cords of the chute. No one even checked it out.

Great maps, but you guys messed with the time line too much - whose time are you using? Those three miles might be simply the times things took to relay and the time on the other end - who says the clock on the plane or the pilots matched the clock on the ground.
or was the person doing the minutes recording the time he put it down and not actual time of message. This is what I have said for a long time - even Homid mentioned something along these line. These time lines shifted the flight path to fit the needs of the FBI to put the money on Tena's Bar and bury Cooper.

This is my gripe - everything has been altered to BURY Cooper and put the money on Tena's Bar so the FBI doesn't look so inept. If you guys had done this in 1971 or 1972 - you can bet your phones would have been ringing off the hook with people telling you NO that is not where the plane WAS.

You are using recorded time to change space and also a map designation. YOU guys have NO idea which the man was referring to. If this was right in the change you have to go both ways...even if the clock is off just 30 seconds. This is my beef because My knowledge of these things are limited and there is NO way to teach me aviation language at 72.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[skyjack71 0]

I looked at one ring that goes to auction next wk. Not wide enough and not smooth enough.
It was all she had....nothing near what I had. Tomorrow going to another place.

I ended up meeting some old friends of Duane's at one of the larger stores that rents out space - with lots of vendors. Nothing there.

No luck with the Mission or Helping Hands or Salvation Army.
I thought maybe I could have stuck it in a donation bag. One of the collection trucks came by while I was recuperating to collect from across the street. I walked over with a small piece and he asked if there was anything else. I had him get the bag out of the back of my car. I can't imagine having put the case in that bag - but considering circumstances I will rule out nothing.

I did not know which organization it was - just that it was a White Truck. The neighbor said it was Goodwill out of Pensacola. The Goodwill said they didn't pick-up and was very rude to me.

I contacted Helping Hands - they were nice but said all of it gets melted down and they have a gold buyer. I went to one of them today - and all they had out was junk jewlery - so it pisses me off that one of them told me they get boxes of Jewelry all of the time like that - obviously they are not aware of the quality of jewerly I was speaking of.

The Salvation Army was the nicest and I have to call them again on Monday. I put all of them on alert about this missing box of gold. When I saw what was out there in the way of gold today - my lost feels worse than it did...why I was so low earlier.

I know the driver was not as tall as the other guy (a black man who came across the street and got the bag out of my car). The Salvation Army said they didn' thave any tall black men - I told her that maybe the truck driver hired someone to help him load and unload...they were picking up furniture.

I don't remember what story I got from what organization but the rude one was GOODWILL. Well they will get NO goodwill from me every. I will trash stuff first.

Waterfront Mission was another one and were adamant they get donations like that all the time and they have a buyer for this gold and jewlery.

I questioned everyone of them that they would not give it a second thought if a well cared for box was loaded with NICE and new pieces that they would NOT question if it had been donated in error - especially with NO receipt required.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[Robert99 37]

Quote

Quote

Jo, It really takes some gall for you to sit there on your fat ass and make such statements about Sluggo!

Who gave you the opinion my ass was fat. No one has ever called me fat and my ass is NOT big. Size 8 and 10 with room to spare....getting a little tummy from not being able to exercise and a little flabbly (age related) but NOT FAT.

Sluggo was nice and he did lots of things for me - he did ignore the knife and I think it is important and that the thread inside of it might match the cut cords of the chute. No one even checked it out.

Great maps, but you guys messed with the time line too much - whose time are you using? Those three miles might be simply the times things took to relay and the time on the other end - who says the clock on the plane or the pilots matched the clock on the ground.
or was the person doing the minutes recording the time he put it down and not actual time of message. This is what I have said for a long time - even Homid mentioned something along these line. These time lines shifted the flight path to fit the needs of the FBI to put the money on Tena's Bar and bury Cooper.

This is my gripe - everything has been altered to BURY Cooper and put the money on Tena's Bar so the FBI doesn't look so inept. If you guys had done this in 1971 or 1972 - you can bet your phones would have been ringing off the hook with people telling you NO that is not where the plane WAS.

You are using recorded time to change space and also a map designation. YOU guys have NO idea which the man was referring to. If this was right in the change you have to go both ways...even if the clock is off just 30 seconds. This is my beef because My knowledge of these things are limited and there is NO way to teach me aviation language at 72.

Jo, Come on, you do know what a "figure of speech" is.

And now you are claiming that I am covering up for the FBI?

The times embedded in the Air Traffic Control transcripts are the most accurate times you will find in this investigation or any other for that 1971 time frame.

[skyjack71 0]

Quote

Quote

Quote

Jo, It really takes some gall for you to sit there on your fat ass and make such statements about Sluggo!

Who gave you the opinion my ass was fat. No one has ever called me fat and my ass is NOT big. Size 8 and 10 with room to spare....getting a little tummy from not being able to exercise and a little flabbly (age related) but NOT FAT.

Sluggo was nice and he did lots of things for me - he did ignore the knife and I think it is important and that the thread inside of it might match the cut cords of the chute. No one even checked it out.

Great maps, but you guys messed with the time line too much - whose time are you using? Those three miles might be simply the times things took to relay and the time on the other end - who says the clock on the plane or the pilots matched the clock on the ground.
or was the person doing the minutes recording the time he put it down and not actual time of message. This is what I have said for a long time - even Homid mentioned something along these line. These time lines shifted the flight path to fit the needs of the FBI to put the money on Tena's Bar and bury Cooper.

This is my gripe - everything has been altered to BURY Cooper and put the money on Tena's Bar so the FBI doesn't look so inept. If you guys had done this in 1971 or 1972 - you can bet your phones would have been ringing off the hook with people telling you NO that is not where the plane WAS.

You are using recorded time to change space and also a map designation. YOU guys have NO idea which the man was referring to. If this was right in the change you have to go both ways...even if the clock is off just 30 seconds. This is my beef because My knowledge of these things are limited and there is NO way to teach me aviation language at 72.

Jo, Come on, you do know what a "figure of speech" is.

And now you are claiming that I am covering up for the FBI?

The times embedded in the Air Traffic Control transcripts are the most accurate times you will find in this investigation or any other for that 1971 time frame.

I still feel that map is OFF and I know it is OFF - if the map you refer to had been presented in 1971 or 1972 - the phone of the FBI would have rang off the hook.
You guys also changed some kind of designation you claimed was used - not something I understood nor would the normal lay person....this may have changed the line - just a little too much. Unless you are the controller or whoever the pilot was talking to or the pilot himself - you do NOT know which map they were using or if they were both using the same map.

I know there were stiff (pilot) penalties with Delta for not having the most current map, but sometimes the pilot couldn't get one till he got to certain major connections. The Delta pilot I dated ran in to this. Now if they did NOT check with the Co-pilot to see what map he used perhaps it did not have the designation change on it as the map you used.

Bear in mind I don't have a damn clue what I am talking about, but Homid did. You can bet if there was a skyjacking and the pilot or co-pilot had an outdated map - it was NOT going to be acknowledged unless someone else saw it.

I know I am talking stupid to you, because I don't understand what you guys did, but there is definitely something wrong with the conclusion you guys made. Plus the DO NOT agree with the general consenses of the flight path prior to 1980,

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[1969912 0]

EDITED (AGAIN): Jo, don't poop in your own mess kit.

"Once we got to the point where twenty/something's needed a place on the corner that changed the oil in their cars we were doomed . . ."
-NickDG

[BobKnoss 0]

"You are using recorded time to change space and also a map designation. YOU guys have NO idea which the man was referring to. If this was right in the change you have to go both ways...even if the clock is off just 30 seconds. This is my beef because My knowledge of these things are limited and there is NO way to teach me aviation language at 72."

The report I was given was that the flight path was not physically "changed", just faked by cheating the wind direction and speed calculations to put the true plane location further west than was being plotted. No other changes were incorporated except the deletion of some transmission records. Timing should be accurate.

You need to hear the conversation in Ralph's den at the party. Tells the whole story in a paragraph. Look it up. Ask Ralph. WEST, Joséphine de Beauharnais, WEST.

[BobKnoss 0]

"And now you are claiming that I am covering up for the FBI?"

Naw, try the FAA.

[mrshutter45 21]

"I know there were stiff (pilot) penalties with Delta for not having the most current map"

I'm not a pilot but I believe the maps would be supplied by the airline itself, seems to me it would be pretty stupid for the airline to allow a pilot to fly blind. I don't see how it would be possible for them to have old charts while flying a plane with a "live load" I could see a cargo company flying old planes and "has been" pilots using old charts! but not a major airline.

the transcripts also tell this story

5:15 ok to have the maps and charts avail
at acft aftr we land
seadd ok wil have A and B charts
which are intntnl charts
msp flt opens take the wole set of cfarxxx
craft maps with you

even when they thought they might fall short of Reno, they were told the tower would guide them in,

8:09 chk manuals don't have Medford aprch
plates
msp r wilhav it for u if we hav a comm
problem the twr will guide you thru it
305 r

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[Robert99 37]

Quote

"I know there were stiff (pilot) penalties with Delta for not having the most current map"

I'm not a pilot but I believe the maps would be supplied by the airline itself, seems to me it would be pretty stupid for the airline to allow a pilot to fly blind. I don't see how it would be possible for them to have old charts while flying a plane with a "live load" I could see a cargo company flying old planes and "has been" pilots using old charts! but not a major airline.

the transcripts also tell this story

5:15 ok to have the maps and charts avail
at acft aftr we land
seadd ok wil have A and B charts
which are intntnl charts
msp flt opens take the wole set of cfarxxx
craft maps with you

even when they thought they might fall short of Reno, they were told the tower would guide them in,

8:09 chk manuals don't have Medford aprch
plates
msp r wilhav it for u if we hav a comm
problem the twr will guide you thru it
305 r

In the 1971 time frame, the major airlines did routinely provide all charts that their pilots would need for a given flight. That included high altitude enroute charts for use above 18,000 feet (where all traffic operated under IFR flight plans), low altitude IFR enroute charts such as L1 and L2 (which the hijacked airliner was using and which can be viewed on Sluggo's web page), and the arrival, departure, and approach plates for specific airports that were the destination or alternate airports for the specific flight.

Remember that airlines were required to operate under IFR flight plans from takeoff to landing (with some specific exceptions). The Jeppesen Company (now owned by Boeing) was the main provider of the IFR maps and charts for the airlines.

Some pilots bought their own subscription to the Jeppesen charts. In the 1971 era, a subscription for ever single IFR map and chart for the 48 states cost about $200 per year from Jeppesen and these charts were updated on a regular basis.

For airline pilots and others flying heavy aircraft, Jeppesen had a special chart service that only included information for airports that had a paved runway that could handle airline type aircraft. This special service involved a lot fewer approach type charts and cost less than the entire publication base mentioned above.

[BruceSmith 3]

Does anyone know exactly where the Amboy chute was found? I'm heading down there soon with Meyer Louie and I'd like to talke with the folks who found it. Any street addresses, names, etc?

Thanks so much.

If you do, perhaps it might be best to contct me directly:
[email protected] or (360) 832-6248 or PM me.

[BruceSmith 3]

As one of the few people here who have actually seen Jo Weber's ass, I feel compelled to tell y'all that it is defintely not fat.

In fact, the woman needs to gain a bit o' weight.

Now, if she had relented and let me take a picture of her, I could prove my point. Perhaps when she comes west next time...