DB Cooper

[Farflung 0]

This is why I believe half of what I see and nothing that I read.

I was some extra weight onboard (PAX) on a flight from the Mediterranean to the maintenance hangar. On approach the Navigator was on his belly in the cockpit and looking through a sight glass on the floor. This is rarely good news. The engines spool up and the guy grabs a couple Johnson bars, opens another hatch on the floor and starts to pump the manual hydraulic system. I know this means we will land after happy hours. Emergency procedures should not dampen one’s eye for value.

This goes on for an inordinate amount of time so the human ballast walks up front to offer assistance. The guy is exhausted and has someone check the alignment stripes for the nose gear. They are indeed off and the locked light is burning brightly off. How hard can this be? Everyone takes turns with this five foot long bar and jacking the pump for what seemed like an eternity but realistically was probably no more than a month. Until the Co-pilot said he had a green the same time the Nav said you’re aligned.

The instructions were spot on when it came to describing the use of the system except they could have added one small advisory. Warning: Manual lowering of the landing gear is a royal bitch.

Why did they keep this a secret? Oh thanks bunches Boeing technical writers, thanks loads and loads. Glad you saved that ink. Like another dozen words would have just killed you, this page intentionally left ’blank’. Well the same won’t be said about the chamber in my revolver if we ever meet. I love you guys for that, just luuuuuuuvvv ya! Muah, muah, kissy kissy. It has been almost 30 years but I remember, I still remember. We all had to know which way to rotate to exit handle and with how many pounds of force but don’t you worry about nose gear extension and what it takes to move a pair of red indices about an eighth of an inch.

I feel better now, thank you.

By the way Robert99 and 377 are both correct in that I have used tanked O2 that would give 100 PAX enough air to make a safe descent to lower altitudes but not much more. I’ve also seen the more modular O2 generators which can live above your head with much less plumbing and complexity. It is a good system with the one notable drawback of potentially causing a fire while getting you out of the frying pan.

[Robert99 37]

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Robert99 wrote:

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I have used a pressure demand oxygen system to 36,500 feet and would have gone on up to 40,000 feet if it had not been about 70 degrees below zero in the cockpit, not counting wind chill factor (all cockpit ventilators had to be kept wide open to keep the canopy from icing over). That was the coldest I have ever been.

Yikes Robert. What were you flying?

I have jumped twice from 24,000 breathing O2 in the plane but jumping without supplemental O2. I've jumped many times from 18,000 with no O2 in the plane or during descent. I did one hop and pop from 18,000 with SpO2 telemetry. My readings were in the low 90s at exit and increased during the canpoy ride down. The climb to exit altitude was VERY quick in a souped up King Air 200. That helped a lot.

Those 24,000 ft jumps were FREEZING, even in the middle of the summer. My goggles iced over right away and didn't clear until about 12,000 ft. Remember we have a 130++ mph wind chill factor in freefall up there. BRRRR.

The 727 crew probably could have put Cooper into a stupor (hey that rhymes) by donning masks and climbing to 24,000. But then what would you do with him?

I know what Rataczak would have suggested: a swim in the Pacific.

377

377, Would you believe that all of my high altitude flights as a pilot have been in gliders (or sailplanes as they are also known)?

The flights to 18,000 feet, with and without oxygen, were in the Big Bear area of southern California and at a location some distance south of Phoenix, Arizona, respectively. The California flight was in thermal lift and the Arizona flight was in wave lift. There wasn't anything particularly unusual about these flights or any other flights that I made between 10,000 and 18,000 feet.

But the flight to 36,500 feet is a different story. It was made in the vicinity of the Air Force Academy near Colorado Springs, Colorado. The flight was in wave lift which had which had to be approached from downwind and through the "rotor" which was generated by the wave conditions.

This was a VERY interesting ride both for the glider and the aircraft that was towing it. A rotor is some of the roughest turbulence found in nature and both the glider and tow plane had extreme difficulty in staying even generally right side up.

The climb to the highest altitude took about two hours and the total flight was almost exactly three hours from takeoff to landing. Both the glider and I were thoroughly cold soaked.

At the highest point, I could not deploy the dive brakes or even move the elevator trim tab. So I had to just put the nose down and make some high speed turns for about the first 10,000 feet of the descent. At about 25,000 feet the dive brakes warmed up enough so that I could deploy them and the rest of the descent was at a relatively low speed and high descent rate.

I had carried two sealed and temperature compensated barographs on the flight and when they were reduced they resulted in my being given credit for 36,500 feet although the highest altitude I saw on the altimeter was 35,500 feet. So it was a lot colder than standard at altitude that day.

While the barographs were being reduced, I went back to the motel and took a hot shower to get the ice out of my various systems.

[quade 3]

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The 727 crew probably could have put Cooper into a stupor (hey that rhymes) by donning masks and climbing to 24,000.

Not a guaranteed result by any means and especially if he's just sitting in his seat. Just look at some of the earliest airplane altitude records.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[wgk146 0]

Speaking of the storms; I have read quite a bit of both threads, plus Sluggo's site, and the Mountain News, and everyone says it was a stormy night, with wind from the southwest at 23 to 25 mph. One of Jo's comments a while back said she had a weather report that the wind was out of the southeast. I thought "hmmm" but no one commented. Well, today I found the following info:






About a quarter-inch of rain for the day at each location, and winds were south or southeast at the time of the flight. Could this little bit of variation be significant?

[377 20]

Quade wrote

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Not a guaranteed result by any means and especially if he's just sitting in his seat.

Just sitting in his seat??? I am certain DBC was having Bourbon fueled "mile high club" fantasies about Tina. I'll bet his metabolism was in 4th gear.

Kenny C. would not have been similarly handicapped.

I used to fly PSA with the semi naked stewardesses. I was just sitting in my seat too but I and a lot of other guys were sweating big time.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[Robert99 37]

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Speaking of the storms; I have read quite a bit of both threads, plus Sluggo's site, and the Mountain News, and everyone says it was a stormy night, with wind from the southwest at 23 to 25 mph. One of Jo's comments a while back said she had a weather report that the wind was out of the southeast. I thought "hmmm" but no one commented. Well, today I found the following info:






About a quarter-inch of rain for the day at each location, and winds were south or southeast at the time of the flight. Could this little bit of variation be significant?

The weather was definitely not "stormy" that night as the airliner passed through the Portland area heading for Reno. The winds aloft at 10,000 feet were from the southwest at between 25 and 30 knots and were not a big factor in the flight.

There is absolutely nothing in the records to support a wind from straight south at 80 knots at 14,000 feet as has reportedly been claimed by a Captain Bohan.

[georger 194]

O2 in properly maintained tanks is actually pretty safe. Smoking around one isnt very risky, but it's a better practice not to.

So, how many new O2 sources have (you and others)
identified since this debate started, plus new
instances of actuall fires and fire hazards ...

Smoking around one isnt very risky, but it's a
better practice not to. Especially since one might
explode on its own just sitting in its nest! I now see
how smoking IS beside the point!

[georger 194]

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Speaking of the storms; I have read quite a bit of both threads, plus Sluggo's site, and the Mountain News, and everyone says it was a stormy night, with wind from the southwest at 23 to 25 mph. One of Jo's comments a while back said she had a weather report that the wind was out of the southeast. I thought "hmmm" but no one commented. Well, today I found the following info:






About a quarter-inch of rain for the day at each location, and winds were south or southeast at the time of the flight. Could this little bit of variation be significant?

We work the storm angle to keep H and JT happy.
Never mind if it happened or not. Its the concession
that counts. Learfield Sports has paid for an ad!

We will get to the facts later - after the anniversary
and Geof Gray's instalation as Knight Crown Templer
Magnum est

[skyjack71 0]

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Speaking of the storms; I have read quite a bit of both threads, plus Sluggo's site, and the Mountain News, and everyone says it was a stormy night, with wind from the southwest at 23 to 25 mph. One of Jo's comments a while back said she had a weather report that the wind was out of the southeast. I thought "hmmm" but no one commented. Well, today I found the following info:






About a quarter-inch of rain for the day at each location, and winds were south or southeast at the time of the flight. Could this little bit of variation be significant?

I know I have reports and I saw them the other day - I have 2 different one's but right NOW I can't remember what either one of them said. I may have had it in hand if I was posting from it.
I frankly don't remember.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[skyjack71 0]

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Speaking of the storms; I have read quite a bit of both threads, plus Sluggo's site, and the Mountain News, and everyone says it was a stormy night, with wind from the southwest at 23 to 25 mph. One of Jo's comments a while back said she had a weather report that the wind was out of the southeast. I thought "hmmm" but no one commented. Well, today I found the following info:






About a quarter-inch of rain for the day at each location, and winds were south or southeast at the time of the flight. Could this little bit of variation be significant?

The weather was definitely not "stormy" that night as the airliner passed through the Portland area heading for Reno. The winds aloft at 10,000 feet were from the southwest at between 25 and 30 knots and were not a big factor in the flight.

There is absolutely nothing in the records to support a wind from straight south at 80 knots at 14,000 feet as has reportedly been claimed by a Captain Bohan.

What has happened in this thread - Voices of reason lately.
It is beginning to sound like the some of you believe Cooper did survive and that the conditions where NOT as bad as the public has been led to believe over the yrs.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[skyjack71 0]

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I thought the matches were provided by the stew? In any case there is no more or no less reason for any NWA employee to have had them than any other.

I am starting to get worried about Jo. She sounds like she is losing it

Right I am loosing it!
The matches were a pale Dusty blue - maybe faded from time.

I made a post earlier and HAD to delete most of it because I had. I had said things I have been told NOT to say! That was REAL and NOT a teaser.

I am loosing it, but not over Cooper. There has been something else going on in my life for the last 4 days and this evening is the first time I have NOT been a bundle of nerves - hopefully I will get a GOOD nights sleep then I won't sound so OUT of it. I believe the last 4 days have been the worst in my life. It is about ANGER and FEAR and THREATS. I tried to help someone else and this was the end results.

I thought this person was worth trying to salvage - but, the price was too high on my own emotions and health. So if I haven't sound like my usual self (what-ever that is) now you know why.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[377 20]

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The weather was definitely not "stormy" that night as the airliner passed through the Portland area heading for Reno. The winds aloft at 10,000 feet were from the southwest at between 25 and 30 knots and were not a big factor in the flight.

There is absolutely nothing in the records to support a wind from straight south at 80 knots at 14,000 feet as has reportedly been claimed by a Captain Bohan.

Don't ruin the drama. Death woods, death skies, death rivers.

Repeat after me: It was a dark and stormy night.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[Orange1 0]

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Right I am loosing it!
The matches were a pale Dusty blue - maybe faded from time.

It's "losing", not "loosing", which I mention only because you have felt the need to correct others on their grammar and spelling before.

And if you do a google images search for old matchbooks, you will see blue is a very popular color for them... maybe if you think just a little harder you can recall the name or image on the matchbook

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[Orange1 0]

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In Gray's book, he says the hijacker produced the matches.

Surely you have learnt by now that Gray's book is hardly the most trustworthy of references???

I understand this point. But if you are going to knock allegations in the book, you have to do it on a case by case basis, and provide evidence that Point A or Point B or Point C in the book is incorrect.

Actually, no I don't. One mistake is one thing, but a few have already been pointed out (some which we have heard Gray was explicitly told were wrong but went ahead and published anyway). Goes to unreliability ...I think at this point, the onus is to find another source that says the hijacker produced the matches, not on me to "prove" him wrong.

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[sailshaw 0]

377 You are right on with your description of the passenger drop down oxygen masks! You say:
"The passenger drop down O2 systems I have seen are not tank fed but have individual O2 generator cans feeding each mask. The cans contain chemical ingredients that mix when the mask feed tube is sharply pulled and begin a VERY hot exothermic oxygen producing reaction. They have caused more than one fire. The Value Jet DC 9 crash in FLA was caused by a bunch of these carried in the cargo bay. They ignited and caused a fire that resulted in loss of the acft and all pasengers."

I would like to add to the description that by pulling down on the mask, the small lever snaps on the end of the oxygen generating can (about the size of a coke can) and starts the oxygen generating process. Before I tested the system in the Boeing lab, I thought the passengers were connected to the large oxygen bottles that the flight deck uses. Big surprise to me that all you have as a passenger was in the coke size can. It functions from 5 to 10 minutes but by that time the pilot dives the plane to a safer altitude.
Bob

[Farflung 0]

The Sky Chef(s) question has brought up another brilliantly analyzed theory on who may be DB Cooper.

I knew that answer had to be as plain as the nose on my face if only I could pick it correctly. What was Cooper waiting for at the end of those stairs for nearly twenty minutes before jumping? Beacon or radio signal from an accomplice, hardly (laughs), he was testing the air. It is a ‘known fact’ that the winds were out of the southeast at some nominal velocity. So Cooper simply followed his nose to his drop zone.

It has been proven from Gray’s book (no further source needed) that Cooper had a book of Sky Chef Matches. Using the aft stairs was none other than cleaning and food service crews previously. That’s right; I got the same tingly feeling too. They would restock the aircraft and have time to hide whatever in the lavatory to assist in their escape. There is no argument here as this is all common knowledge.

The execution. Much, too much has been made about Cooper looking through the clouds. Not necessary for an employee from Sky Chef(s, whatever) as they have a sense that can penetrate the thickest of cloud decks. I am of course referring to their olfactory receptors. Unlike the frail senses of sight or hearing which are fleeting by design, smell is something that can linger for hours as anyone knows who has blundered into a Hometown Buffett restroom at 2:30 in the afternoon after a ‘Senior’s Special’. Yet you can get a ticket and be fined for a loud exhaust.

Once Cooper picked up the aroma of the massive commercial kitchen which used forced make up air exhaust to ventilate the facility, he jumped and followed the plume with his trained chefy sniffer. Is it a coincidence that the Sky Chefs kitchen is in V-23’s approved corridor? Of course not, only a fool would think that. What’s more, it is next to a golf course. That’s right, a perfectly manicured piece of land free of lights and other obstacles. Ever seen a security guard at a golf course? Don’t be absurd.

If you think money is a factor in this crime, then who makes less than a cook for a commercial kitchen that supplies airlines? Add to that the grudge he carried about the endless stream of airline food jokes on national television and you have a recipe for a skyjacking, sky chef slicing through the air like a Ginsu Knife through a room temperature cherry cheesecake on a catering table at a Lane Bryant factory outlet store where…. ummm… I think I got lost in my own allegory here. Anyway it would happen quickly.

Did the FBI question anyone that worked for Sky Che(f)? No. Was the golf course searched? No. Were any food service employees proven not to be Cooper? Again the answer is no. How much longer will these people go undetected? Well, you read it here first.

[skyjack71 0]

Farflung you seem to be the wizare of this thread and able to find amazing things.

I need HELP to find something.
Englebert Humperdinck Played in Tahoe in the fall of 1979. Can you find the dates he was there.
This was a special appearance.

I am not sure of the Casino because we went to so many.

You are GOOD at this - help me find the dates - this is very very important. I do know he was in Chicago just prior to appearing in Tahoe - need exacte date he was in Tahoe after that.

Thank you or anyone else who can provide me with this information.

To ALL:
Regardless of anything I told about the matches past or present - it would be questionable - but this was discussed with Himmelsbach in those early yrs prior to 2000. Since there has now been computer exposure - nothing I said would make any difference.

Remember - I thought anything I said was going to the FBI. So very very stupid of me...I did NOT understand how the system worked - like I said my roots must really be blonde (no insult to the real blondes out there - just a thing from the 50's and 60's that was an expression). If someone can provide me with another expression to use so I will not insult the blondes of the world - please inform me of this.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[lost_n_confuzd 0]

Found this on CNN

http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2011/09/01/secret-life-of-a-d-b-cooper-hijacking-witness-includes-disappearing-to-a-nunnery/

[skyjack71 0]

I have something I want to scan at a very high resolution and put on a disk to send to you. I will do front and back of ONE item plus a couple of pages from within.

If you are really able to analyze things - then analyze this. I will include with the disk - small particles (fragments) of this item that have crumbled away. This item needs to be analyzed to see if it was stored with any of the money at any time. The item is deteriorating rapidly. It may even have finger prints within it - most of the outside will be smudged from handling.

I have already researched the history of this item - the author was 93 when I found her a few yrs ago. Oh, I also found the author of the second item - she lives in OR...Joan Garrity was the artist on this second item...very N.W. specific! Strange Weber would have these 2 items.

NO! I cannot and will not put this in the thread and you will have to sign a confidentiality statement regarding this item.
You know my email as it is in the thread and it is NO secret. Depending on what you find on this item then I will provide you with another item. These items may have absolutely NOTHING to do with Cooper, but I need to know.....unless the FBI intends to announce who Cooper really was very soon. And I do mean VERY soon - not NOV.

Now I am going to do something I have NEVER done. A picture that includes me. I am doing this because of the angle it shows Weber. Since there is NO way anyone could recognize me from that photo taken 31 yrs ago, I felt I would leave myself in the photo just for the hell of it.

The angle of the picture on Duane and the way his hair line was along with the slant of the forehead. This is how the stewardess would have viewed him siting in the plane.

I want to make something very very clear. I have pictures of Duane taken before and after 1971 - his hair has lots of gray in it. So after the jump he washes out the dye and becomes this steely gray headed salesman NO one would even connect to Cooper...he also gains weight.

His wife was keeping his hair died after he was released from Jefferson in 1968 and the first pictures (never released and made in 1972) - show the almost gray Weber and a man who looked NOTHING like his prior self. I still do not understand why the photos are so different - the look is that of a gangster in the early 1970's. Weber was a cameleon in his appearance. Geoffrey and others have made remarks how surprised they were to find Duane had so many different "looks" and how close to before and after the crime they are.

I have been selective about the photos I have made available and for good reason.

Attached is one I believe was made in CO at a Christmas party - which would make it 1980.
Note the HAIR line - exactly as the composite shows it from this angle. Perhaps this is the photo the witnesses should see.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[JerryThomas 0]

Robert Both Ralph and the chopper pilot states the weather was bad. I guess you can call them liars . Well thats what your doing. Im sure you must have been in the chopper with them in order for you to make that statement. Lets not forget in this area it can be raining on you and your neighbor can be getting sunburned. Jerry

[Orange1 0]

Amazing. Truly amazing. You insult Georger to the point of slander and now you expect him to spend time "analyzing" something on a wild goose chase?

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[JerryThomas 0]

Coopers flight came from Minn. Does Melvin Wilson ring a Bell. If so is it posible he could have gotten off that flight then changed clothes and bought a ticket to Seattle. One more point the portland airport off loading and loading was done from the Tarmack Jerry

[377 20]

Jo wrote

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Attached is one I believe was made in CO at a Christmas party - which would make it 1980.
Note the HAIR line - exactly as the composite shows it from this angle. Perhaps this is the photo the witnesses should see.

I am not being sarcastic or derogatory Jo but that newly posted "angle" photo doesn't look significantly different than any other Duane photo, at least to my eye. The front of Duane's head slopes like the figures in ancient Mayan carvings and statues. It's pretty distinctive. I've not seen that feature described by any DBC witnesses.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[Robert99 37]

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Robert Both Ralph and the chopper pilot states the weather was bad. I guess you can call them liars . Well thats what your doing. Im sure you must have been in the chopper with them in order for you to make that statement. Lets not forget in this area it can be raining on you and your neighbor can be getting sunburned. Jerry

Jerry, Who am I suppose to believe, you or the weather people? Are you calling the weather people liars?

[Robert99 37]

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Coopers flight came from Minn. Does Melvin Wilson ring a Bell. If so is it posible he could have gotten off that flight then changed clothes and bought a ticket to Seattle. One more point the portland airport off loading and loading was done from the Tarmack Jerry

Jerry, Cooper had already bought a ticket and spent quite a few minutes in the gate waiting area before the flight from Minneapolis even landed. So he could not have been on that flight prior to its landing in Portland.