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DB Cooper

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Farflung wrote:
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What happened to me? Now I pay $4.12 and 9/10ths cents per gallon (yeah, gallon) at the pump and pray for a handle that isn’t sticky or for a paper towel in the dispenser when it is. What exactly are people doing before refueling their cars?



I had you pegged for Major T.J. "King" Kong in Dr. Strangelove. Now with this sanitation obsession you are sounding more like Gen. Jack D. Ripper.

If it doesnt kill you it will build up your immune system. For an extreme example look up phage therapy Farflung. They harvest this medicine from fetid sewage ponds and other places that would upset you.

from Wikipedia:

Phage therapy is the therapeutic use of bacteriophages to treat pathogenic bacterial infections. Although extensively used and developed mainly in former Soviet Union countries for about 90 years, this method of therapy is still being tested elsewhere for treatment of a variety of bacterial and poly-microbial biofilm infections, and has not yet been approved in countries other than Georgia. Phage therapy has many potential applications in human medicine as well as dentistry, veterinary science, and agriculture.[1] If the target host of a phage therapy treatment is not an animal the term "biocontrol" (as in phage-mediated biocontrol of bacteria) is usually employed, rather than "phage therapy".

Bacteriophages are much more specific than more common drugs, so they can hypothetically be chosen to be indirectly harmless not only to the host organism (human, animal, or plant), but also to other beneficial bacteria, such as gut flora, reducing the chances of opportunistic infections. They would have a high therapeutic index, that is, phage therapy would be expected to give rise to few if any side effects, as opposed to drugs, and would not stress the liver.[citation needed] Because phages replicate in vivo, a smaller effective dose can be used. On the other hand, this specificity is also a disadvantage: a phage will only kill a bacterium if it is a match to the specific strain. Consequently phage mixtures are often applied to improve the chances of success, or samples can be taken and an appropriate phage identified and grown.

Phages are currently being used therapeutically to treat bacterial infections that do not respond to conventional antibiotics, particularly in the country of Georgia.[2][3][4] They tend to be more successful than antibiotics where there is a biofilm covered by a polysaccharide layer, which antibiotics typically cannot penetrate.[5] In the West, no therapies are currently authorized for use on humans, although phages for killing food poisoning bacteria (Listeria) are now in use.[6]

It apparently works really well, but the FDA wont allow it in the USA.

Too bad our new DBC candidate has a good alibi (skiing in the Alps with his daughter). He is the best sketch match so far.

377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

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Stephanie,

Your father's Vietnam pictures are a great shot in time. Composition /Quality / subject matter of many of them seems quite good to me. I hope that you continue with your cataloguing and captioning of them - maybe we'll see them in a photo essay book one day.

And... if nothing else, they have reached another audience that woudn't have seen them if not for the Cooper conundrum. :)

but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

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The pictures by Colonel Waite are really something special. If Colonel Waite's family put him the Alps over Thanksgiving 1971, then that's enough for me. Sorry to have bothered you and your family Stephanie, and I'm glad brave men like your father were around to fight for us all.

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I'll check in now and then. I am fascinated by the case, and It's my opinion that the real Cooper has not been identified. I am big on the police sketch because it was drawn early in the case and therefore isn't subject to all the rumors and lies, and false leads, and possible FBI mishandling during the last 40 years. Also was anybody else fascinated with the life of Colonel Waite as told though his pictures? For a small town kid, he sure seemed to carry himself in a very worldly manner. Truly an American hero.

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Don't you think the fact that I had just gone public about Cooper and he finds out who I am after the contract is signed and delivered....he was ordered to cancel that contract - this is just how our USA and FBI work.



Jo,

Really, this is paranoid thinking. The FBI hierarchy doesn't know or care how residential real estate commissions are earned, split etc. When you post stuff like this it undermines your objectivity and credibility. Stick to the facts. Forget speculation about FBI conspiracies. Put Duane on the plane and you will find a very receptive FBI.

377



No paranoid involved - read your PM's. The details are there. Florida Real Estate Law - 2000.

Been at the Dr.s most of the day and do not feel like dealing with this. You maybe an attorney but do you Know the FLORIDA Real Estate Laws and rules of the Company I worked for? If he wanted to pull it from me he had to be able to present a complaint against me. There was NO complaint or discipline actions taken against me. I have an unblemished record with the State of Fla, All agents who ever worked with me - will tell you I was straight as an arrow.
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

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Before it was locked, the first thread here at DZ on Cooper ran a whopping 899 pages, complete with links to thousands of pictures and whatever else. It was visited and posted to by the likes of Snow-Guy. Special Agent Larry Carr, and a host of others.

I've read a lot of it. It's a big thing, indeed.

One time when I got bored, I did copy/paste for a few hours and stuffed all 899 pages into a massive Word doc. It's a fat frickin' thing, trust me.

Now I'm attempting to convert that doc into a standard resolution PDF via Adobe. This means all active links will still work. You could print it up (for research purposes only, no copyright violations intended) or view it in Adobe Reader.

Printing/viewing/hitting links in AR is certainly easier than trying that one in Word.

Our best computer has been trying for two hours now to complete this task. Trust me, this is a tough one, although it's moving along.

No matter how good a computer you have, converting 899 pages of posts that contain thousands of images and links into an Adobe doc where they still all work is a tricky task indeed. We've never tried this one before. If it works, you'll be able to easily access almost everything on that entire thread, unless the links are broken.

Let's face it. It would be a lot quicker than wading through page after page to seek what you're looking for, right?

I don't know if we can pull it off, but everyone is trying, and we're not getting any errors. I love challenges like this. Cuts the boredom factor. ;)



and you will own the contents of this thread ?

better talk to Quade and the owner(s).

This is a first!

Have you read the Terms and Rules of this website?

Under Terms it states, quote:

'(I) By publishing or submitting any content
including, articles, stories, postings and photographs
to any part of Dropzone.com you give permission
that such content may be used at the sole discretion
of Dropzone.com anywhere else on the site, for any
purpose, in its original or edited form, at any time in
the future. Content will not be sold without
permission of the original author or owner.'

It does not state that content of this website may be
taken by a user and used outside the context of this
website.

Nowhere in the Rules or Terms does it state the
contents of the site may be copied or converted
for the personal ownership of a user or distributed
by a user outside this website ...

You and AB Books specificially do NOT have my
permission to copy, edit, and sell or trade or market
in any manner, my posts here at Dropzone.

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Have you read the Terms and Rules of this website?

Under Terms it states, quote:

'(I) By publishing or submitting any content
including, articles, stories, postings and photographs
to any part of Dropzone.com you give permission
that such content may be used at the sole discretion
of Dropzone.com anywhere else on the site, for any
purpose, in its original or edited form, at any time in
the future. Content will not be sold without
permission of the original author or owner.'

It does not state that content of this website may be
taken by a user and used outside the context of this
website.

Nowhere in the Rules or Terms does it state the
contents of the site may be copied or converted
for the personal ownership of a user or distributed
by a user outside this website ...

You and AB Books specificially do NOT have my
permission to copy, edit, and sell or trade or market
in any manner, my posts here at Dropzone.





Georger - ditto that!

I Jo Weber state that
Blevins and/or AB Books specifically do NOT have my permission to copy, edit and sell or trade or market in any manner my posts here at Dropzone.

He didn't do his own research into the crime - now he wants to highjack the thread - this is ridiculous - We go from investigating a Skyjacking to being post-jacked - or whatever.

I printed the 1st thread and it fills up 3 2" note books, but it was for my own personal purpose. I started the same on this thread - but, it grew and grew and grew - so damn fast there was absolutely no way to keep up with it. I stopped doing it June of 2009. Can you only imagine what we have here now.

I believe that was around Post #10675 and now there are #24316 posts. I would love to have all of it printed just because - well one day I won't be around and I would like for there to be a written record so my great grandchildren who will only hear tales about that Crazy Delusional Grandma of theirs can read it and make their own decision...maybe by then the world will know who Cooper was.

I am even missing lots of them prior to the #10675 post. I had already started just printing highlights before I printed #10675. :D NOW I could never catch up. Would be nice to have it on CD's. DZ could make money selling the contributors CD copies...

Actually the DZ has become the source for serious Cooper searchers. We have had several writers in here that did NOT identify themselves other than through private emails to me and maybe to some of the rest of you. They have come and gone - perhaps on to another subjects when we bore them.

In another 40 yrs my only great grandchild with be 45 yrs old and by then there won't be anything to play CD's on - Ever try to find a turn table to play your collectibe LP's on? The CD's available are mix ups - terrible trying to figure out who is singing what.
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

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Robert,

You have my permission to use anything I've posted and my encouragement to ignore all the threats from others. Your compilation, if made freely accessible, would be helpful. I'd be grateful, not spiteful.

Litigation over minor s**t is soooooo pointless. Two sure fire ways to burn up lots of money are to own an airplane or to sue someone over a minor personal beef.

You'll find plenty of lawyers who will tell you the opposite. They are taking delivery on a new Porsche soon and would love to have its purchase funded by you.

377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

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Don’t get me wrong 377, I don’t avoid self service fuel dispensers.

But I do deny them my essence.

It may be worth your while to consider a few things about ‘self service’ and just what this entails in some individual’s minds. Just think about it, by the time you reach for that pump handle and discover something amiss the following will course through your brain at the speed of light.

Ewwwwwww, what’s that? I sure hope it isn’t Zombie juice from some undead person who refueled before me. Oh well, probably not; more than likely they were enjoying a cinnamon roll while engaging in a little fuel transfer, gosh I know I would.

That is when it is going to hit the fan. Some sort of ecto-gooey stuff will have you encased in a matter of seconds and drag you back to its lair for a slow feeding.

Of course by lair, we all know that means gas station bathroom. Seen one lately? I thought so. Better get armed with some anti pump handle monster grenades or have someone in a hazmat suit enter first. Some people are self serving more than gas at these places and there are a bunch of deviated ‘preverts’ in these places.

I was probably in the military too long because every time I see one of those big gas station signs that say ‘Clean Restrooms’, I do.

But the truth be told, if you can handle the truth 377; is that I prefer the good old days when I could enjoy the benefits of full service.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NHspRfzZc6M

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Robert,

You have my permission to use anything I've posted and my encouragement to ignore all the threats from others. Your compilation, if made freely accessible, would be helpful. I'd be grateful, not spiteful.

Litigation over minor s**t is soooooo pointless. Two sure fire ways to burn up lots of money are to own an airplane or to sue someone over a minor personal beef.

You'll find plenty of lawyers who will tell you the opposite. They are taking delivery on a new Porsche soon and would love to have its purchase funded by you.

377



Without knowing the intended use, the author/copier
has in mind, how can you even comment? He did not
state his intended use ... just the fact he is copying
and converting.

Your client list has grown. First Snowmman. Now
Blevins. Common theme = anarachy?

DZ has its own Terms and Rules, in any event.

How will this resolve? I have no idea. So Im not
sitting here all smug a comfortable in my position.

Why are we having to deal with this "shit" at all?
It never has come up before. Or has it?

Most people are just content to be here and post.
Blevins has always had something more in mind.
That much is obvious.

It's a matter of trust, isn't it ?

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Don’t get me wrong 377, I don’t avoid self service fuel dispensers.

But I do deny them my essence.

It may be worth your while to consider a few things about ‘self service’ and just what this entails in some individual’s minds. Just think about it, by the time you reach for that pump handle and discover something amiss the following will course through your brain at the speed of light.

Ewwwwwww, what’s that? I sure hope it isn’t Zombie juice from some undead person who refueled before me. Oh well, probably not; more than likely they were enjoying a cinnamon roll while engaging in a little fuel transfer, gosh I know I would.

That is when it is going to hit the fan. Some sort of ecto-gooey stuff will have you encased in a matter of seconds and drag you back to its lair for a slow feeding.

Of course by lair, we all know that means gas station bathroom. Seen one lately? I thought so. Better get armed with some anti pump handle monster grenades or have someone in a hazmat suit enter first. Some people are self serving more than gas at these places and there are a bunch of deviated ‘preverts’ in these places.

I was probably in the military too long because every time I see one of those big gas station signs that say ‘Clean Restrooms’, I do.

But the truth be told, if you can handle the truth 377; is that I prefer the good old days when I could enjoy the benefits of full service.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NHspRfzZc6M



Damn it Farflung, now you have made me so wary of gas stations that I may have to trade in my 12 year old gas eater for a pure electric vehicle. Only I will touch the recharge hardware which will be bathed in powerful UV light during the dormant periods. This will severly limit my roving radius, but judging by your annual mileage you dont get around much and you are still pegging the hunky meter. I'll look to you for tips on how to be noticed and adored within a small circle of opportunity and influence.

Remember those HF calls that used to be directed at your aircraft? "Skyking, Skyking, do not answer. Papa Tango Three. Time Three Five. Authentication Whiskey November. I say again; Skyking, Skyking, do not answer. Papa Tango Three. Time Three Five. Authentication Whiskey November."

I would have expected you to rail against the "do not answer" command and shoot back a rebelious reply. Not that anyone was listening, but just to assert your independence from SAC mind control.

377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

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Your client list has grown. First Snowmman. Now
Blevins. Common theme = anarachy?



I always liked entropy Georger. You call it anarchy, I call it social thermodynamics. ;)

73,
377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

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Jo wrote:
Quote

Ever try to find a turn table to play your collectibe LP's on?



I like vinyl records Jo. It goes with my acceptance of entropy. The occasional scratches and clicks actually sooth me. The cold harsh perfection of a flawless CD recording just doesnt do much for my mood. Annie Lennox isn't perfect so why should she sound that way? Neil Young without a few scratches is just pretentious and fake. John Coltrane needs the noise too.

Snowmman is probably already writing the sound card code to make a CD sound exactly like a vinyl LP. It will be a selectable feature on your next Blue Ray player.

Thrift stores are awash in discarded turntables. I bought a very high quality one with an expensive cartridge in perfect condition for $25. You just have to get there before the turntable hoarders do.

377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

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Blevins wrote:
Quote

Let me get this straight. I posted up a little excerpt from a screenplay I'm working on, and then suddenly a minute later you get an email from a Hollywood producer trashing it?

Geez...that was fast. Hollywood must really be monitoring my work. (*chuckles*)



They are very fast Robert. If you were as attractive as Miss Auburn they'd have you in for a "screen test" right away.

377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

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Your client list has grown. First Snowmman. Now
Blevins. Common theme = anarachy?



I always liked entropy Georger. You call it anarchy, I call it social thermodynamics. ;)

73,
377


377, Using definitions from my desktop dictionary, entropy is defined as "a thermodynamic quantity representing the unavailability of a system's thermal energy for conversion into mechanical work, often interprted as the degree of disorder or randomness in the system."

Anarchy is defined as "a state of disorder due to the absence or non-recognition of government or other controlling systems."

In the case of thermodynamics, mechanical work can only be done between two different temperatures and the process of doing that work is not 100 percent efficient which results in a steady increase in entropy or a reduction of disorder or randomness.

Eventually the whole system would be at the same temperature and no further work would be possible. Entropy could not increase further. Call it 100% entropy if you wish.

In the case of anarchy, the desire is to go from some ordered or non-random state to a disordered or chaotic state. Thus it would seem that anarchy is at 100% when there is chaos and no order.

From the above, it would seem that entropy and anarchy are headed in opposite directions.

On the original subject of intellectual property rights, it should be noted that they are definitely protected in the Los Angeles area. Is the San Francisco area still a part of California? Was it ever?

Before Blevins starts infringing on the intellectual property rights of others, he and Adventure Books, or whoever, should review their financial situation to see just how much money they can lose. However, I am not a lawyer and the above is not legal advice. (Is that a disclaimer?)

Robert Nicholson

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Mr. Blevins had previously said he and Porteous had
Geoff Gray's galleys. Several other people had told
me they have read Geoff's galleys. Then others
wrote asking if I had Geoff's galley - I said no.
And several others who I would have expected to
have Geoff's galleys (if he was sharing them with
people) reported they did not have Geoff's galleys.

I have been communicating with Geoff Gray today
and just as an aside Geoff remarks, as follows:

"I haven't sent galleys to anyone and I'm not sure
how people, other than reviewers, have gotten them.
(I'd also point out that the galleys were "uncorrected
proofs" and the final manuscript has corrections to
many typos and misnomers and errors.)".

So, for Geoff's sake I am posting Geoff's remarks
today about this controversy which frankly, I believe.

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Mr. Blevins had previously said he and Porteous had
Geoff Gray's galleys. Several other people had told
me they have read Geoff's galleys. Then others
wrote asking if I had Geoff's galley - I said no.
And several others who I would have expected to
have Geoff's galleys (if he was sharing them with
people) reported they did not have Geoff's galleys.

I have been communicating with Geoff Gray today
and just as an aside Geoff remarks, as follows:

"I haven't sent galleys to anyone and I'm not sure
how people, other than reviewers, have gotten them.
(I'd also point out that the galleys were "uncorrected
proofs" and the final manuscript has corrections to
many typos and misnomers and errors.)".

So, for Geoff's sake I am posting Geoff's remarks
today about this controversy which frankly, I believe.



Georger, I will again say "I Ditto that" as I also called Geoffry.
What he told me is exactly what he told you. He and I spoke about 3 days ago. I just didn't see it worth mentioning in the thread - because Blevins keeps coming up with this crap. I am the 1st one who contacted Geoffry and you could hear the surprise or question mark over the phone.

We know copies of the book were given to other writers for review - even before he finished it....open a site on any book Patterson puts out before it hits the market. You will see - reviews written and it is obvious some of those reviews are made-up or written before the completion of the book.

Geoffrey seemed unaware of how Blevins could have read chapters on Christainsen and Tina as he stated.

All of us on this thread who have a "tag line" are protected to some degree. Blevins posted and bragged that he is downloading all of the DZ postings and we know he is a publisher. He would NOT be doing this unless it was for commercial purposes, to use and make profit out of someone else's hard work.


We have known from the beginning Blevins rides on the coat tails of others (at least this is what he has done since get-go in relation to his story on Christiansen). He used this thread to research Cooper AFTER THE FACT and we were all nice enough to help him because he had really screwed up the facts about the crime itself. (He still does).


I am beginning to believe that Blevins only stayed with the thread when he saw he could profit by participating...every post he makes has a sales pitch and is self promoting. Blevins intends to violate the terms and conditions posted at the DZ for all participatory users, intending to use the information by downloading and storing it in his own publishing-based office computer and to use it commercially.

Many of us print our posts, but lets face it - this subject matter got so large and varied - there was NO way anyone of us could keep up printed posts. Therefore it is the intent of Belvins to use this for profit. If his office is working on it - it is definitely not a personal copy for himself.

If anyone is going to profit it should be the DZ - it is their time and space - they afforded us the opportunity to discuss the matter. If they put it on a CD or in written format I will purchase them - the weight on this thread to ship will be quiet hefty in hard copy form. About the size of 8 or 10 outhouse Sears :)Catalogs from the 70's!
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

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Blevins draws fire like a venom magnet. How could one harness that ability? Could he be towed as a decoy in some military application?

No matter what he says or does he gets slammed, trashed, and demonized instantly. It's 100% predictable.

I disagree with a lot of his theories, but he doesnt raise my blood pressure. Perhaps I am dense or insensitive.

377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

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:)
I have an old friend who moved away several yrs ago - his brother was involved in Hollywood and would send him film to review and to critique. He had lots of these old films that were the uncut versions. These guys are older than I am - so they are ancient.

I think the one in Hollywood died in the last few yrs. Oh, it would surprise you to know I introduced one of them to his current wife. This was the 3rd match I made in my life - and all the parties involved are still married to each other....another one was the head of a Law Enforcement Dept. for a state.

When one lives 70 yrs - what can I say - it takes a lot of toilet paper!

No football stars or beauty queens - in my past, but what a ride it has been.
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

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Smokin99: You say:"Yeah, I know. But with over 20,000 posts since this thread began in some form or another since 2001, what HASN"T been talked about already? Wink"

Possibly it is time to talk about whether DB survived the jump or died trying as the FBI would lead us to believe.

Let us consider the two possibilities:
1) He was un-experienced and died in the jump after all the great planning that got him to a place that he could do the jump. The FBI likes this possibility as they have been unable to solve the crime or find out who DB was and by dieing the case is closed (but not really as they have no body).

OR

2) He was very skilled and knew exactly what he was doing. He out smarted the FBI and the System and the jump was not really as impossible as the FBI would want us to believe.

Not much needs to be said for 1) above as he died. However, how much exposure did he have to the cold weather, snow/rain, clouds and the dark of night. I checked this possibility out with an experienced skydiver (377) and he believes my numbers are "right on". My thought is that he jumped from 10,000 ft and did not pull until 3,000 ft which would have been below the cloud cover. His free-fall at an average of 120 mph (176 ft/sec) would have taken only 40seconds. Then when he pulled at 3,000 ft the temperature was probably only 10 degrees below the 47 degrees F that was reported on the ground. So after just 40 second of free-fall he can see the ground, is at a fairly comfortable temperature, possibly see the Columbia river, and certainly see the bright lights of PDX Portland airport. His chute deploys and it only takes him 3 to 5 minutes under the chute to reach the ground and avoid being seen as the round NB-6 (same color as the clouds) decends at aprox. 16 ft/sec. and he is now at 47 degrees F but wet and his rain coat now comes in handy for his short walk ro his car that he possibly left in Portland close to to PDX. Total exposure from plane to ground possibly just 5 minutes and the time is about 8:30 pm.

Now this will give some of you something to chew on rather than re-hashing the same old stuff, but it shows that it was a survivable jump by a skilled skydiver and DB lives on.

If this has been hashed over before, please excuse me as I am only up to thread page 200 at this time and hope this post will create some good thinking. If this is too technical for you, just don't read it

Bob

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Jo Said:
Quote

Blevins posted and bragged that he is downloading all of the DZ postings and we know he is a publisher. He would NOT be doing this unless it was for commercial purposes, to use and make profit out of someone else's hard work.




377 Said:
Quote

No matter what he says or does he gets slammed, trashed, and demonized instantly. It's 100% predictable.

I disagree with a lot of his theories, but he doesnt raise my blood pressure. Perhaps I am dense or insensitive.




Well, I have found myself in an unusual position. I have to defend “the Blev” AND slam him (in the same post). How did this happen? Well, here goes:


Jo,
What ever happened to innocent until proven guilty? Who has put any “hard work” into their posts? Some have posted ABOUT their hard work, but no post is hard work. Converting a huge thread to a .PDF, now that’s hard work!


377,
See my previous post. Hey, I love diversity, but some folks have a personality that rubs many (or most) people the wrong way. Something I tried to point out to “the Blev” recently. I disagree with him on almost everything, I think he is very childish (or child-like) at times, but I still owe him a beer and would be glad to sit with him and drink one.


All,
I’m no lawyer (and I never played one on TV), but, I think when one posts to an internet forum or discussion group they essentially surrender two things: the expectation of privacy and any intellectual rights to the post itself. In the case of DZ.com, what use or uses “the Blev” intends is between him and DZ (Sangrio et al).

Well, that’s my two-cents.

Web Page
Blog
NORJAK Forum

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Smokin99: You say:"Yeah, I know. But with over 20,000 posts since this thread began in some form or another since 2001, what HASN"T been talked about already? Wink"

Possibly it is time to talk about whether DB survived the jump or died trying as the FBI would lead us to believe.

Let us consider the two possibilities:
1) He was un-experienced and died in the jump after all the great planning that got him to a place that he could do the jump. The FBI likes this possibility as they have been unable to solve the crime or find out who DB was and by dieing the case is closed (but not really as they have no body).

OR

2) He was very skilled and knew exactly what he was doing. He out smarted the FBI and the System and the jump was not really as impossible as the FBI would want us to believe.

Not much needs to be said for 1) above as he died. However, how much exposure did he have to the cold weather, snow/rain, clouds and the dark of night. I checked this possibility out with an experienced skydiver (377) and he believes my numbers are "right on". My thought is that he jumped from 10,000 ft and did not pull until 3,000 ft which would have been below the cloud cover. His free-fall at an average of 120 mph (176 ft/sec) would have taken only 40seconds. Then when he pulled at 3,000 ft the temperature was probably only 10 degrees below the 47 degrees F that was reported on the ground. So after just 40 second of free-fall he can see the ground, is at a fairly comfortable temperature, possibly see the Columbia river, and certainly see the bright lights of PDX Portland airport. His chute deploys and it only takes him 3 to 5 minutes under the chute to reach the ground and avoid being seen as the round NB-6 (same color as the clouds) decends at aprox. 16 ft/sec. and he is now at 47 degrees F but wet and his rain coat now comes in handy for his short walk ro his car that he possibly left in Portland close to to PDX. Total exposure from plane to ground possibly just 5 minutes and the time is about 8:30 pm.

Now this will give some of you something to chew on rather than re-hashing the same old stuff, but it shows that it was a survivable jump by a skilled skydiver and DB lives on.

If this has been hashed over before, please excuse me as I am only up to thread page 200 at this time and hope this post will create some good thinking. If this is too technical for you, just don't read it

Bob



Sailshaw (and 377 also if he believes your numbers are "right on"), I hope this isn't too technical for you.

First, there was no way on God's Green Earth that Cooper could have known where he was when he jumped. This has been covered in great detail on this thread and elsewhere.

Second, you indicate that in your grand scheme Cooper jumped from the airliner about 8:25 and was on the ground about 8:30 just a short walk from the Portland Airport's parking lot where his car was parked.

In reality at about 8:20, the airliner reported its position as being 23 DME miles (or nautical miles) south of the Portland VORTAC (which is now designated the Battleground VORTAC). So by 8:25 (your jump time), the airliner was probably 38 to 40 DME miles south of that VORTAC or about 25 to 27 nautical miles south of the Portland Airport. Can you explain this difference in times and locations?

Third, it is very unlikely that 377 or any experienced skydiver would tell you that Cooper would average a free-fall speed of 120 MPH from 10,000 feet to 3000 feet. That speed is only good at sea level, standard atmosphere conditions, and in a stable spread position. How did Cooper maintain a stable spread position when he was in the clouds and did not have any visual references whatsoever? He couldn't.

Other questions. What was the wind chill factor at the instance Cooper separated from the airliner's steps? What were the atmospheric conditions in the Portland area at the time of the jump compared to a standard atmosphere?

Your attempts to twist facts to point to your selected Cooper candidate border on the laughable. You need to stick to something that you know and you obviously don't know anything about aerodynamics, free-falling bodies, aerial navigation, or other aeronautical disciplines even if you do have a private pilot's license.

Again, I hope the above was not to technical for you and written in a style that you can understand.

Robert Nicholson

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Sailshaw's calcs are close enough. Cooper didn't freeze to death before he hit the ground. Sure, tumbles increase your fall rate but it's not a big factor that affects survivability. If Cooper deployed, his next big problem was landing without injury. Nothing too awful happened between exit and deployment if he deployed high enough. A disorienting spin and money loss is very possible, but that's not a survivability issue. The cold might have been a big factor on the ground but it wasn't a big deal during the jump. I made several freefall jumps from 24,000 ft wearing a lightweight jumpsuit, boxer shorts and a t shirt. It was summer but at 24K it was frigid. My goggles iced up immediately after exit. You just aren't exposed to the cold long enough to do any physical damage.

I agree that he likely had no position fix when he jumped.

377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

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I agree that he likely had no position fix when he jumped.

377



And yet he bails right on the doorstep of a fixed
most visible point (from SEA south), until you get
points further below PDX.

Lets try this: assume Cooper is enclosed in a black
box with time his only variable - time spinning in his
head. The box will open on the stairs and he must
jump; cant re-enter the box. Where does Cooper
jump? What kind of distribution predicts where he
will jump, in internal time his only reference? Is this
an unweighted (unbiased) random distribution, a
random walk, or what kind of distrbution - or no
predictable pattern at all?

If a thousand monkies are put on the stairs ready to
jump, with no choice but to jump, where will monkies
generally jump, from SEA to Reno ? (What difference
between monkies vs humans ?)

What factors could bias a random distrbution of
jumping somewhere near the middle of the route,
or nearer the 1/3rd point, or 2/3rds point, or
wherever RD predicts the jump(s) will be ?

Now talk to me about: "no position fix when" the
subject jumped, or will jump ?

As it happened, the jump occurred in the vicinity of
Vancover-Portland - the first and largest landmark
south of PDX until points further south.

Now talk to me about: "no position fix".

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